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Qantas Recruitment

Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:12
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The world is a magnificent place, and if want to see as many cities as you can during slip times, it’s probably best to go overseas as Qantas isn’t the job for you. The route network isn’t all that big, and never will be. If the actual flying stuff isn't that important to you, and you can live with going to London, Rome, or LA multiple times over a year, with the promise that home is really home, it may be a great fit. The conditions are good (even for new SO’s), and for me anyway, you don’t have to live with the fear that when the next recession hits, you are turfed out of the country for being a ”foreigner”. That probably won’t happen to those that choose overseas, and I wish them the best of Luck. I’m with dre though, that atlas gig looks far too much like hard work.

QF is still the best job in Australia, and I’d hesitate to reject a job offer, as I’m sure it only comes once, and eventually most will want to come home. You’re probably better off not applying at all until that day comes, if it comes at all.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:33
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.
QF long haul no doubt is less fatiguing. But you are either going to have to do 15 years in the sh*t show that is shorthaul or stay in a junior rank* for lots longer than most peoples' ambitions.

*not that thereís anything wrong with that.

Once upon a time I did rosters like the Atlas gig. I didnít find it onerous at all. It would be interesting to cross examine a couple of Atlas senior people to get their take on the rosters.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:42
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Originally Posted by Chad Gates View Post
The world is a magnificent place, and if want to see as many cities as you can during slip times, itís probably best to go overseas as Qantas isnít the job for you.
I'd go for an ME carrier in that case, very varied worldwide network to all continents and sights to see in most of them.

But Atlas? When you're conscious in your 24-30 ish hours off between multiple back of the clock duties you can enjoy the sights of freight hubs like Cincinnati and Anchorage.......
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:47
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
QF long haul no doubt is less fatiguing. But you are either going to have to do 15 years in the sh*t show that is shorthaul or stay in a junior rank* for lots longer than most peoples' ambitions.
Only comparatively. SH isn't too bad of a gig, given the pay is better than any other NB in the country, can be at home most nights. Domestic flying appeals to some, the beauty with mainline is if you get a job there you can switch between both at various points in your career.

Lowest LH FO slot went 3 years right at the peak just before Covid. Can expect it to be no more than 5-10 years assuming continuous recruitment in the future.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 09:45
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I doubt it. The fleet isn’t growing, but perhaps the age distribution is skewed so advancement may be quick for a couple of intakes. On average if you want a right seat quickly its probably going to be 8 years on the 737. Same for the left seat. So about half of the average pilot's career can be spent tied to the whipping post.

The fact that the pay is the best in the country isn’t saying much given the alternatives.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 07:18
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.
So youíre comparing the rest of the world, or even the US with simply a couple of Atlas bid packets?

Thereís a whole lot more out there than Atlas.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 08:02
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Originally Posted by abaderrr View Post
A large percentage of new hires go to mainline solely for the LH lifestyle, being the only such opportunity in Aus. So the suggestion that it's either 8+ years of making bunks (now on a B scale), or they can gleefully accept a SH FO slot on Day 1, to be flogged up and down the east coast doing 4-5 sector days, 5 days a week is hilarious.
Still havenít found these elusive SOs who make up the bunk for everyone!
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 10:46
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Originally Posted by abaderrr View Post
So the QF start date that I, and numerous others (that I know of) have turned down fits into which part of your first claim?
Sorry I forgot the stupidity part.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 10:56
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
So youíre comparing the rest of the world, or even the US with simply a couple of Atlas bid packets?

Thereís a whole lot more out there than Atlas.
There is, but Atlas was being touted on these forums as a much better option than mainline so much so that a lot of S/Os were jumping ship. They may regret it looking at those rosters but there may be advantages for them as well.

Thereís always been a plethora of overseas opportunities, the Middle East carriers have been enticing with the opportunity for fast widebody commands and a large route network but working in the ME has real challenges too, and fatigue is also a commonly cited factor.

Asian contracts should start up again soon, again with positives and negatives.

But this isnít a new thing. Some pilots got start dates or started with mainline 10, 20, 30 odd years ago. But then resigned to go elsewhere for whatever reason. I know of a few who went to Cathay, apparently some to ME carriers too. Better prospects of promotion or pay or other reasons. But they were a minority. Almost all who took LWOP in the last 10 years have returned or are planning to return, very few resigned.

Point being I donít think Mainline is going to have an issue with large numbers of new hires not showing up on day one because theyíve jumped ship to go to Atlas or elsewhere.


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Old 1st Oct 2022, 02:03
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
Any truth to the rumour that QF Pilots were told at a recent planning presentation that the expectation is that Mainline domestic will reduce to 50 A321s (down from 75 odd 737s) and NJS (or other entity) will increase to 50ish A220s?

Would make domestic commands difficult for those that were wanting just a couple years international before switching to domestic and having family home time.

I didnít hear this, but I canít imagine a321s will be used to fly to Hedland or Isa, etc, like 737s are now. Itís entirely conceivable that a220s would do a lot of this work, and a smaller mainline narrow body fleet that would do mainly capital cities and some lesser capacity international stuff could be the way forward.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 03:57
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.

It takes 3 hours to turn the 747, that would mean 9 hours in just turn time for a 4 leg day... That fails the pub test.

There are no days longer than 2 sectors on the 74.

FAA mandates 32 hours of rest within 7 days. Usually get 3 x 32/7's inside 14 days. These can happen at any port. Most layovers are 24-30 hours.

17 days on will usually be 13 flights. No 3+ days...

Most ops are 4 crew, a few 3 crew legs and even less 2 crew.

Expect 1-3 landings a month.

I have a number of good mates at Giant.

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Old 1st Oct 2022, 06:24
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Originally Posted by ResumeOwnNav View Post
It takes 3 hours to turn the 747, that would mean 9 hours in just turn time for a 4 leg day... That fails the pub test.

There are no days longer than 2 sectors on the 74.

FAA mandates 32 hours of rest within 7 days. Usually get 3 x 32/7's inside 14 days. These can happen at any port. Most layovers are 24-30 hours.

17 days on will usually be 13 flights. No 3+ days...

Most ops are 4 crew, a few 3 crew legs and even less 2 crew.

Expect 1-3 landings a month.

I have a number of good mates at Giant.
There is a sample pattern document going around. Whilst not all duties were multi leg a few were, and they were quite short ones (I remember one that bounced around several airports in Japan and Korea on one TOD) so not much flight time but plenty of sectors to fit in one augmented TOD.

3x 32hrs rest breaks within 14 days isnít much. Definitely less than what youíd get in a typical pattern in mainline. No more than 24-30 hr layovers in 17 days will build up to the point of exhaustion by the end of a trip. I think that was the biggest stand out, as well as continual switching between days and nights with 24hrs off, which will have a greater effect on fatigue than a roster of pure night shifts.

For comparison when the mainline 744 was around 13 day Ďdouble shuttleí trips would be common. That was 6 legs in 13, no multi sector, always augmented and least two rest periods of at least 48hrs (sometimes 60+hrs) in those trips. And by the end of those pilots generally remarked that was more than enough. My own look at the Atlas rosters saw that happening about halfway through a typical 17 day trip.

Of course there may be some who can manage that workload successfully, and good for them, but it is definitely more fatigue inducing than the worst mainline trip I can think of, and now those trips donít even exist anymore.

Last edited by dr dre; 1st Oct 2022 at 06:56.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 06:55
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
Any truth to the rumour that QF Pilots were told at a recent planning presentation that the expectation is that Mainline domestic will reduce to 50 A321s (down from 75 odd 737s) and NJS (or other entity) will increase to 50ish A220s?
Itís a fleet replacement project that will go for another 12 years. Management generally arenít looking at numbers that far in advance and will adapt as necessary (a year or two out). I would highly doubt theyíve arrived at a firm 50/50 split today, and even if they had thereís no Ďplanning presentationí where they would openly tell crew about it.

But even with that the combined A220/A321 total order is 134 aircraft, so there are another 34 aircraft to be accounted for. Split evenly that adds up to 67 A321s, which is similar to the 75 737s atm.

Seat capacity, 75x 738 and 20x 717 adds up to just shy of what 50 321 and 50 220 will give you, however passenger numbers are forecast to rise by about 3.5% per year for the next 10+ years so 50/50 wonít be enough to cater for the expected rise in numbers, however getting the extra 34 options (17 321s and 17 A220s) roughly will. So IMO thereíll definitely have to be more than 50 321s coming in the long run.

What the A321 will be doing is more overnight flying to Asia, at the time the current 737 fleet is mostly sitting idle. So even a lesser number of 321s can mean the same amount of crew required.

Last edited by dr dre; 1st Oct 2022 at 07:13.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 11:56
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Of course if Airbus go ahead with the A220-500 variant that could change things again.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 13:26
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Originally Posted by Lapon View Post
Of course if Airbus go ahead with the A220-500 variant that could change things again.
That would be right in the area of the 320neo however. It isnít a priority for Airbus at the moment, and will be many years before it comes into QF service, as they generally wait until the first design is in service with other carriers before introducing them. Given the XLR time from announcement of the project to entry into mainline service will be 6 years the -500, if it ever goes ahead, wouldnít be in the QF group til the end of the decade, and by that stage a more accurate plan of fleet replacement will have been formulated, too far in the future to worry about now.
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Old 13th Oct 2022, 10:30
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Are people regularly being called off the hold file for ground schools?
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Old 13th Oct 2022, 10:59
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Originally Posted by transition_alt View Post
Are people regularly being called off the hold file for ground schools?
yes. Some getting dates into next year
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Old 14th Oct 2022, 09:08
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Originally Posted by transition_alt View Post
hold file
More time spent on hold file than flying
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Old 19th Oct 2022, 08:07
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Expats

Any truth to the rumour of 50 or 60 ex-Cathay guys applying in the most recent round earlier this year and if so, any news on how they faired?
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Old 24th Oct 2022, 20:33
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Anyone got any idea on when Q will take applications again? Still a big backlog?
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