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Qantas Recruitment

Old 26th Sep 2022, 06:58
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Originally Posted by davidclarke View Post
Absolutely! Every EBA that has been voted up in the last few years group wide has been garbage. But the difference is none of them voted up a B scale for their future colleagues. Colleagues that never got to have a say……
I’m wildly against B scales in principal as well but it’s easy to forget how that “negotiation” went down.

Qantas threatened to outsource the 350 or start another entity to fly it if that agreement didn’t get up. Legal advise was that as they were new aircraft on new routes there was no transfer of business and it would have been completely legal.

Combine that with the fact COVID took hold and the EBA vote was in April 2020 while most people were stood down it didn’t really leave mainline pilots in a strong bargaining position did it
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 08:11
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Originally Posted by romeocharlie View Post
Just like EFA didn't sell out and vote "No" too hey?
EFA pilots were well below award after having a 4 year expired EBA. Once the 0/0/2/2 pay freeze/wages policy was applied, they were still below award, and were all bumped up to 2% above award, which netted a circa 15% pay rise over 4 years. But still “wages policy compliant” in the company’s eyes.
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 09:09
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Originally Posted by Overspeed1 View Post
I’m wildly against B scales in principal as well but it’s easy to forget how that “negotiation” went down.

Qantas threatened to outsource the 350 or start another entity to fly it if that agreement didn’t get up. Legal advise was that as they were new aircraft on new routes there was no transfer of business and it would have been completely legal.

Combine that with the fact COVID took hold and the EBA vote was in April 2020 while most people were stood down it didn’t really leave mainline pilots in a strong bargaining position did it
This comment is accurate.

The threat pre Covid-19 was real that they’d outsource the flying to a new entity. And with lots leaving CX due to the issues in HKG it wasn’t a risk the pilots could take, especially as covid started to appear. Secure the plane first. Then fight it.

Bin Chicken Airlines WA was waiting to swoop in. QantasLink A350-1000 ULR 🤢 Award pay for a350 log book time. They were rubbing their hands. I seen it.
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 12:22
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Originally Posted by onezeroonethree View Post
This comment is accurate.

The threat pre Covid-19 was real that they’d outsource the flying to a new entity. And with lots leaving CX due to the issues in HKG it wasn’t a risk the pilots could take, especially as covid started to appear. Secure the plane first. Then fight it.

Bin Chicken Airlines WA was waiting to swoop in. QantasLink A350-1000 ULR 🤢 Award pay for a350 log book time. They were rubbing their hands. I seen it.
if you believed network could have done this flying you’re dumber than a one nail door stop
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 13:27
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‘I seen it’…
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 15:04
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE View Post
Is it normal for SO's on the 787/330 to get MGH or are they working harder than that?
I believe both fleets are working quite a lot at the moment, above min guarantee. But long term the company aims to keep hours roughly around MGH.

Originally Posted by Change Tanks View Post
What about bases outside of Mel or syd? Understandably not day 1 but how long could you have to wait for SH?
Perth and Adl go fairly junior too,

The only real wait was BNE, but just before Covid when recruiting was at peak that was just shy of 2 years.

Back in the “good old days” it would be closer to a decade for a BNE base FO slot, but that’s certainly a thing of the past now.

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Old 26th Sep 2022, 17:44
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
I believe both fleets are working quite a lot at the moment, above min guarantee. But long term the company aims to keep hours roughly around MGH.



Perth and Adl go fairly junior too,

The only real wait was BNE, but just before Covid when recruiting was at peak that was just shy of 2 years.

Back in the “good old days” it would be closer to a decade for a BNE base FO slot, but that’s certainly a thing of the past now.
What’s your ballpark guess on junior widebody f/o in years to come with the bubble of retirements etc?
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 23:49
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
There’s no reason to stay an SO for 7+ years except by choice, currently Syd and Mel SH FO slots are being handed out to new joiners.

Delving a bit more into the EBA for new hire SOs for the 787 it’s $122k-$131k on base MGH without additional pay or allowances. 330/350 SFF $107k-$124k MGH at the end of 6 years, so a bit lower but not substantially as much. Again this can all be avoided by bidding to SH ASAP, with 35% higher pay at MGH on first year rates, but at the usual hours rostered in SH it’ll be much much more, the before tax pay for most F/O’s for this FY should have a 2 at the start of it, even on first year rates and without the bonus or allowances.
A large percentage of new hires go to mainline solely for the LH lifestyle, being the only such opportunity in Aus. So the suggestion that it's either 8+ years of making bunks (now on a B scale), or they can gleefully accept a SH FO slot on Day 1, to be flogged up and down the east coast doing 4-5 sector days, 5 days a week is hilarious.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 00:49
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If the condition aren’t to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 02:17
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Originally Posted by abaderrr View Post
A large percentage of new hires go to mainline solely for the LH lifestyle, being the only such opportunity in Aus. So the suggestion that it's either 8+ years of making bunks (now on a B scale), or they can gleefully accept a SH FO slot on Day 1, to be flogged up and down the east coast doing 4-5 sector days, 5 days a week is hilarious.
Work harder get paid more? Yeah that’s how it works. In previous times there were 380 SOs on above $250k.

SO is an entry level job. The total package for new joiners with allowances will be around $140-150k, more than enough for a position that can be done with a bare CPL and 200hrs. You want more? Got to SH and make more.

It’s not the responsibility of the company to pay SOs $250k+ for a cushy lifestyle. Yes you should be paid much more for being in the front seat of any Jet than as a cruise relief pilot.

Last edited by dr dre; 27th Sep 2022 at 07:18.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 02:20
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Originally Posted by On Guard View Post
What’s your ballpark guess on junior widebody f/o in years to come with the bubble of retirements etc?
Just prior to Covid the most junior LH FO was 3 years. With continuous recruitment for any base LH FO should fall within 5-10 years.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 07:30
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Originally Posted by Chad Gates View Post
If the condition aren’t to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.
Exactly!


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Old 28th Sep 2022, 04:10
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Originally Posted by Jc31 View Post
if you believed network could have done this flying you’re dumber than a one nail door stop
Never said I believed it. They can't even properly crew their charter ops.

Doesn't mean some of their pilots there weren't getting excited over the idea. Oh, and over potentially taking Winton A321s.
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 04:28
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Originally Posted by onezeroonethree View Post
Never said I believed it. They can't even properly crew their charter ops.

Doesn't mean some of their pilots there weren't getting excited over the idea. Oh, and over potentially taking Winton A321s.
so you are dumber than a one nail doorstop then
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 15:31
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Originally Posted by Chad Gates View Post
If the condition aren’t to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.
Many are and have.

Crappy conditions (B scale) just has the effect of lowering the pool of candidates.

For sure QF will always be able to have a deep hiring pool. But you have to admit, QF isn’t necessarily the envy of all Australian pilots given what else is on offer in the world.
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 23:36
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
Many are and have.

Crappy conditions (B scale) just has the effect of lowering the pool of candidates.

For sure QF will always be able to have a deep hiring pool. But you have to admit, QF isn’t necessarily the envy of all Australian pilots given what else is on offer in the world.
I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didn’t make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but you’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise.




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Old 29th Sep 2022, 01:48
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didn’t make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but you’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
I guess we are simply at an impasse then. The current conditions on offer are pretty sub-par compared to what is now on offer elsewhere if you take a snapshot of current conditions vs historic.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 02:59
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didn’t make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but you’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
So the QF start date that I, and numerous others (that I know of) have turned down fits into which part of your first claim?
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 04:18
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Most Aussies with a family simply don't want to live in a place like Dubai/ Qatar and don't want their kid's to go to school in the USA. Hong Kong is no longer a viable option either. There is no escaping that fact. QF will always have that advantage as the premier employer for pilots in Australia. What you might find is the people that are joining now are already jaded before they even start (especially if coming from inside the group).
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 05:26
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And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.

Last edited by dr dre; 29th Sep 2022 at 05:40.
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