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Qantas Recruitment

Old 26th Sep 2022, 15:04
  #3041 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE
Is it normal for SO's on the 787/330 to get MGH or are they working harder than that?
I believe both fleets are working quite a lot at the moment, above min guarantee. But long term the company aims to keep hours roughly around MGH.

Originally Posted by Change Tanks
What about bases outside of Mel or syd? Understandably not day 1 but how long could you have to wait for SH?
Perth and Adl go fairly junior too,

The only real wait was BNE, but just before Covid when recruiting was at peak that was just shy of 2 years.

Back in the ďgood old daysĒ it would be closer to a decade for a BNE base FO slot, but thatís certainly a thing of the past now.

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Old 26th Sep 2022, 17:44
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Originally Posted by dr dre
I believe both fleets are working quite a lot at the moment, above min guarantee. But long term the company aims to keep hours roughly around MGH.



Perth and Adl go fairly junior too,

The only real wait was BNE, but just before Covid when recruiting was at peak that was just shy of 2 years.

Back in the ďgood old daysĒ it would be closer to a decade for a BNE base FO slot, but thatís certainly a thing of the past now.
Whatís your ballpark guess on junior widebody f/o in years to come with the bubble of retirements etc?
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Old 26th Sep 2022, 23:49
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Thereís no reason to stay an SO for 7+ years except by choice, currently Syd and Mel SH FO slots are being handed out to new joiners.

Delving a bit more into the EBA for new hire SOs for the 787 itís $122k-$131k on base MGH without additional pay or allowances. 330/350 SFF $107k-$124k MGH at the end of 6 years, so a bit lower but not substantially as much. Again this can all be avoided by bidding to SH ASAP, with 35% higher pay at MGH on first year rates, but at the usual hours rostered in SH itíll be much much more, the before tax pay for most F/Oís for this FY should have a 2 at the start of it, even on first year rates and without the bonus or allowances.
A large percentage of new hires go to mainline solely for the LH lifestyle, being the only such opportunity in Aus. So the suggestion that it's either 8+ years of making bunks (now on a B scale), or they can gleefully accept a SH FO slot on Day 1, to be flogged up and down the east coast doing 4-5 sector days, 5 days a week is hilarious.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 00:49
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If the condition arenít to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 02:17
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Originally Posted by abaderrr
A large percentage of new hires go to mainline solely for the LH lifestyle, being the only such opportunity in Aus. So the suggestion that it's either 8+ years of making bunks (now on a B scale), or they can gleefully accept a SH FO slot on Day 1, to be flogged up and down the east coast doing 4-5 sector days, 5 days a week is hilarious.
Work harder get paid more? Yeah thatís how it works. In previous times there were 380 SOs on above $250k.

SO is an entry level job. The total package for new joiners with allowances will be around $140-150k, more than enough for a position that can be done with a bare CPL and 200hrs. You want more? Got to SH and make more.

Itís not the responsibility of the company to pay SOs $250k+ for a cushy lifestyle. Yes you should be paid much more for being in the front seat of any Jet than as a cruise relief pilot.

Last edited by dr dre; 27th Sep 2022 at 07:18.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 02:20
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Originally Posted by On Guard
Whatís your ballpark guess on junior widebody f/o in years to come with the bubble of retirements etc?
Just prior to Covid the most junior LH FO was 3 years. With continuous recruitment for any base LH FO should fall within 5-10 years.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 07:30
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Originally Posted by Chad Gates
If the condition arenít to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.
Exactly!


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Old 28th Sep 2022, 04:10
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Originally Posted by Jc31
if you believed network could have done this flying youíre dumber than a one nail door stop
Never said I believed it. They can't even properly crew their charter ops.

Doesn't mean some of their pilots there weren't getting excited over the idea. Oh, and over potentially taking Winton A321s.
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 04:28
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Originally Posted by onezeroonethree
Never said I believed it. They can't even properly crew their charter ops.

Doesn't mean some of their pilots there weren't getting excited over the idea. Oh, and over potentially taking Winton A321s.
so you are dumber than a one nail doorstop then
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 15:31
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Originally Posted by Chad Gates
If the condition arenít to your satisfaction, you are free to join another airline.
Many are and have.

Crappy conditions (B scale) just has the effect of lowering the pool of candidates.

For sure QF will always be able to have a deep hiring pool. But you have to admit, QF isnít necessarily the envy of all Australian pilots given what else is on offer in the world.
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Old 28th Sep 2022, 23:36
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Originally Posted by havick
Many are and have.

Crappy conditions (B scale) just has the effect of lowering the pool of candidates.

For sure QF will always be able to have a deep hiring pool. But you have to admit, QF isnít necessarily the envy of all Australian pilots given what else is on offer in the world.
I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didnít make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but youíre fooling yourself if you think otherwise.




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Old 29th Sep 2022, 01:48
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76
I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didnít make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but youíre fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
I guess we are simply at an impasse then. The current conditions on offer are pretty sub-par compared to what is now on offer elsewhere if you take a snapshot of current conditions vs historic.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 02:59
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76
I beg to differ. Those who have gone overseas, either went too early or didnít make it with QF.
The 1% may have a genuine desire but youíre fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
So the QF start date that I, and numerous others (that I know of) have turned down fits into which part of your first claim?
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 04:18
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Most Aussies with a family simply don't want to live in a place like Dubai/ Qatar and don't want their kid's to go to school in the USA. Hong Kong is no longer a viable option either. There is no escaping that fact. QF will always have that advantage as the premier employer for pilots in Australia. What you might find is the people that are joining now are already jaded before they even start (especially if coming from inside the group).
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 05:26
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And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.

Last edited by dr dre; 29th Sep 2022 at 05:40.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:12
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The world is a magnificent place, and if want to see as many cities as you can during slip times, it’s probably best to go overseas as Qantas isn’t the job for you. The route network isn’t all that big, and never will be. If the actual flying stuff isn't that important to you, and you can live with going to London, Rome, or LA multiple times over a year, with the promise that home is really home, it may be a great fit. The conditions are good (even for new SO’s), and for me anyway, you don’t have to live with the fear that when the next recession hits, you are turfed out of the country for being a ”foreigner”. That probably won’t happen to those that choose overseas, and I wish them the best of Luck. I’m with dre though, that atlas gig looks far too much like hard work.

QF is still the best job in Australia, and I’d hesitate to reject a job offer, as I’m sure it only comes once, and eventually most will want to come home. You’re probably better off not applying at all until that day comes, if it comes at all.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:33
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Originally Posted by dr dre
And overseas isn't exactly the golden goose it's perceived to be. A lot of people are saying Atlas is a better option, having been sent a sample bid package for their 74F operation I'd beg to differ. 17 days per month of non stop work that traverses every time zone, usually 24 hrs or less free of duty everywhere, constant switching between days and nights, back of the clock 3 and 4 leg duties. I'm sure I'd personally be shattered at the end of one of those patterns, and that's without even factoring commuting in. I'd hope those guys are getting paid well because that kind of rostering is unsustainable in the long term IMO.

QF LH is without a doubt far less fatiguing.
QF long haul no doubt is less fatiguing. But you are either going to have to do 15 years in the sh*t show that is shorthaul or stay in a junior rank* for lots longer than most peoples' ambitions.

*not that thereís anything wrong with that.

Once upon a time I did rosters like the Atlas gig. I didnít find it onerous at all. It would be interesting to cross examine a couple of Atlas senior people to get their take on the rosters.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:42
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Originally Posted by Chad Gates
The world is a magnificent place, and if want to see as many cities as you can during slip times, itís probably best to go overseas as Qantas isnít the job for you.
I'd go for an ME carrier in that case, very varied worldwide network to all continents and sights to see in most of them.

But Atlas? When you're conscious in your 24-30 ish hours off between multiple back of the clock duties you can enjoy the sights of freight hubs like Cincinnati and Anchorage.......
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 07:47
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus
QF long haul no doubt is less fatiguing. But you are either going to have to do 15 years in the sh*t show that is shorthaul or stay in a junior rank* for lots longer than most peoples' ambitions.
Only comparatively. SH isn't too bad of a gig, given the pay is better than any other NB in the country, can be at home most nights. Domestic flying appeals to some, the beauty with mainline is if you get a job there you can switch between both at various points in your career.

Lowest LH FO slot went 3 years right at the peak just before Covid. Can expect it to be no more than 5-10 years assuming continuous recruitment in the future.
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Old 29th Sep 2022, 09:45
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I doubt it. The fleet isn’t growing, but perhaps the age distribution is skewed so advancement may be quick for a couple of intakes. On average if you want a right seat quickly its probably going to be 8 years on the 737. Same for the left seat. So about half of the average pilot's career can be spent tied to the whipping post.

The fact that the pay is the best in the country isn’t saying much given the alternatives.
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