Qantas Recruitment
We absolutely are not edging in that direction at all. These clowns don’t want career opportunities. They want you stuck. The seniority system ensures that. It’s a long time to command in mainline, he’ll it’s along time to wide body FO. They will never have a system where group pilots work together rather than in competition. Sorry, that’s a fact. I’d love it if we were moving to a system where internals could move around entities to find a job that suited them best, I think that would be a group seniority….and we won’t even get the various workgroups to agree on that, let alone the management morons. One only has to look at the success rate of those coming from JQ to mainline under the MOU. If you’re in the group, there should be no testing at all. Should be simple. Yet all these rules have been imposed, and applicants have failed. Can’t believe it.
Not necessarily, if the Group establishes a pathway from the likes of Jetstar to Mainline then that would drive external recruitment. It is in Qantas’ interest to show that internal candidates are preferred over externals. We are edging towards the day when only internal candidates will make it into mainline and the only way in is to join a Qantas Group entity.
From what I believe, even though in their ideal world HR would love every pilot in a subsidiary to remain put, they’ve now realised that internal candidates aren’t going to sit patiently on the hold file and wait months or even years to get a start date, and then lose several hundred seniority numbers to be behind external candidates. People talk, and if word gets out that being in a subsidiary is a handbrake to getting into mainline they won’t join a subsidiary, or will leave to other companies if progression is glacial.
Of course they were warned about this some time ago, but until it became a reality they didn’t do anything about it.
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we won’t even get the various workgroups to agree on that, let alone the management morons. One only has to look at the success rate of those coming from JQ to mainline under the MOU. If you’re in the group, there should be no testing at all. Should be simple. Yet all these rules have been imposed, and applicants have failed. Can’t believe it.
To be replaced by externals coming from where...150+ Cadets?
Once QF Mainline figures this out, recruitment from internals will grind to a slow halt in favour of externals so as not to jeopardise the entire machine. Easier to convince someone from REX or VA to join Mainline, than doing same to join any of the QantasLink or Jetstar group companies.
Once QF Mainline figures this out, recruitment from internals will grind to a slow halt in favour of externals so as not to jeopardise the entire machine. Easier to convince someone from REX or VA to join Mainline, than doing same to join any of the QantasLink or Jetstar group companies.
The Dash 8 operation, for example, can not survive on cadets alone moving forward.
Have any internals even been given an answer despite being advised that they'd hear by the end of the year? Even what few internals they do take, you are going to be behind 100 other virgn, Rex Cathay peeps etc. anyone's guess when qlink, EFA or JQ will release you, What's the point? Just another kick in the teeth by a group that couldn't care less about it's staff.
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Anyone getting in now will have to face the deciosn of never holding a command at Qantas mainline.
For some that’s not an issue…for others that’s a problem.
Obviously this isn’t a new issue but joining the wave post COVID in an airline with little to no expansion over the next decade is the harsh reality.
For some that’s not an issue…for others that’s a problem.
Obviously this isn’t a new issue but joining the wave post COVID in an airline with little to no expansion over the next decade is the harsh reality.
Have any internals even been given an answer despite being advised that they'd hear by the end of the year? Even what few internals they do take, you are going to be behind 100 other virgn, Rex Cathay peeps etc. anyone's guess when qlink, EFA or JQ will release you, What's the point? Just another kick in the teeth by a group that couldn't care less about it's staff.
can’t wait for EA negations.. 🍍
Anyone getting in now will have to face the deciosn of never holding a command at Qantas mainline.
For some that’s not an issue…for others that’s a problem.
Obviously this isn’t a new issue but joining the wave post COVID in an airline with little to no expansion over the next decade is the harsh reality.
For some that’s not an issue…for others that’s a problem.
Obviously this isn’t a new issue but joining the wave post COVID in an airline with little to no expansion over the next decade is the harsh reality.
I would agree that maybe someone 50+ is not going to hold a command. 45 and under though, I would say there’s still a good chance of at least a narrow body command. 30-35 and under will get a chance at a widebody command.
I would probably safely say that the days of expanding Jetstar are done and dusted, and with more demand for point to point travel in the future, I see there being a good chance of at least some expansion of mainline.
But, all this depends on how pessimistic or optimistic you want to be.
On the other hand, you could just go and enjoy it for what it is, a job where you get to travel.
Thread Starter
From personal experience, life as an FO in a legacy carrier beats the life of a Captain at a low cost carrier……. In my opinion of course.
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But, there is a huge amount of movement at JQ with rumours of more to come. A whole lot of new airbus commands and no doubt that will Lead to 787 FO spots. More LRs and XLRs to come etc. I would imagine there are a lot of Airbus FOs looking at the superior lifestyle on the 787.
A JQ 787 FO v QF 737 FO wouldn't be that far apart on terms and conditions surely? (Assuming JQ doesn't scrap the 787 operation of course...)
Any FO close to those positions has a big decision to make. Joining QF below 100 externals and onto the "B" scale isn't exactly exciting. Even for those who do decide to go, they are jaded with the company before they even start!
If Qantas had shown even the slightest respect to it's group pilot and:
1. Prioritised group hirings over external recruitment
2. Offered seniority numbers to those who can't be immediately released by their group airline
3. Not hired internal candidates onto the new rubbish B scale for SOs,
No one would be complaining. But as been demonstrated numerous times, no one in management could give a rats.
Thread Starter
I'm not saying it isn't. I don't personally know, but I would imagine you'd still get better pay and treatment as a QF WB FO then a JQ Captain.
But, there is a huge amount of movement at JQ with rumours of more to come. A whole lot of new airbus commands and no doubt that will Lead to 787 FO spots. More LRs and XLRs to come etc. I would imagine there are a lot of Airbus FOs looking at the superior lifestyle on the 787.
A JQ 787 FO v QF 737 FO wouldn't be that far apart on terms and conditions surely? (Assuming JQ doesn't scrap the 787 operation of course...)
Any FO close to those positions has a big decision to make. Joining QF below 100 externals and onto the "B" scale isn't exactly exciting. Even for those who do decide to go, they are jaded with the company before they even start!
If Qantas had shown even the slightest respect to it's group pilot and:
1. Prioritised group hirings over external recruitment
2. Offered seniority numbers to those who can't be immediately released by their group airline
3. Not hired internal candidates onto the new rubbish B scale for SOs,
No one would be complaining. But as been demonstrated numerous times, no one in management could give a rats.
But, there is a huge amount of movement at JQ with rumours of more to come. A whole lot of new airbus commands and no doubt that will Lead to 787 FO spots. More LRs and XLRs to come etc. I would imagine there are a lot of Airbus FOs looking at the superior lifestyle on the 787.
A JQ 787 FO v QF 737 FO wouldn't be that far apart on terms and conditions surely? (Assuming JQ doesn't scrap the 787 operation of course...)
Any FO close to those positions has a big decision to make. Joining QF below 100 externals and onto the "B" scale isn't exactly exciting. Even for those who do decide to go, they are jaded with the company before they even start!
If Qantas had shown even the slightest respect to it's group pilot and:
1. Prioritised group hirings over external recruitment
2. Offered seniority numbers to those who can't be immediately released by their group airline
3. Not hired internal candidates onto the new rubbish B scale for SOs,
No one would be complaining. But as been demonstrated numerous times, no one in management could give a rats.
A former much maligned president of AIPA pushed a group seniority list.
Thread Starter
It came close in around 2017, I was at a meeting were some very senior managers said that Joyce wanted Group Seniority to address retention of pilots. The proposal was a Group List where you are ranked on your date of joining, whenever ANY entity needed to recruit then the positions would be advertised internally and allocated via the Group Seniority number.
Only when all positions were allocated could roles be advertised externally to fill the gaps that were left. It would have resulted in ALL mainline jobs going to internal candidates ( probably) and all jobs into the group via the ‘less’ popular group companies. Advantage would have been certainty of movement for internal candidates and certainty of career path for new join externals I.e may have to start in Network but I know I will have access to other opportunities.
That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.
I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award. Now this isn’t exclusive to Qantas, it is a sign that Qantas’ IR strategy has worked perfectly when one union won’t cooperate with another as a matter of principal.
Only when all positions were allocated could roles be advertised externally to fill the gaps that were left. It would have resulted in ALL mainline jobs going to internal candidates ( probably) and all jobs into the group via the ‘less’ popular group companies. Advantage would have been certainty of movement for internal candidates and certainty of career path for new join externals I.e may have to start in Network but I know I will have access to other opportunities.
That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.
I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award. Now this isn’t exclusive to Qantas, it is a sign that Qantas’ IR strategy has worked perfectly when one union won’t cooperate with another as a matter of principal.
Last edited by Ollie Onion; 7th Feb 2023 at 21:36.
Will any of those feelings change now that AIPA is making a play for subsidiary pilot membership? I’d hope it’s not another split for the group to exploit.
It came close in around 2017, I was at a meeting were some very senior managers said that Joyce wanted Group Seniority to address retention of pilots. The proposal was a Group List where you are ranked on your date of joining, whenever ANY entity needed to recruit then the positions would be advertised internally and allocated via the Group Seniority number.
Only when all positions were allocated could roles be advertised externally to fill the gaps that were left. It would have resulted in ALL mainline jobs going to internal candidates ( probably) and all jobs into the group via the ‘less’ popular group companies. Advantage would have been certainty of movement for internal candidates and certainty of career path for new join externals I.e may have to start in Network but I know I will have access to other opportunities.
That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.
I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award. Now this isn’t exclusive to Qantas, it is a sign that Qantas’ IR strategy has worked perfectly when one union won’t cooperate with another as a matter of principal.
Only when all positions were allocated could roles be advertised externally to fill the gaps that were left. It would have resulted in ALL mainline jobs going to internal candidates ( probably) and all jobs into the group via the ‘less’ popular group companies. Advantage would have been certainty of movement for internal candidates and certainty of career path for new join externals I.e may have to start in Network but I know I will have access to other opportunities.
That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.
I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award. Now this isn’t exclusive to Qantas, it is a sign that Qantas’ IR strategy has worked perfectly when one union won’t cooperate with another as a matter of principal.
Over the next 10 years the number of Mainline domestic pilots will become smaller and smaller.
The NEOs will still fly the trunk capital city routes at peak times but A220s will be a much more common sight.
If your a pilot wanting to try international for a few years then settle on the domestic fleet and have a family your applying to the wrong company by applying for mainline.
The NEOs will still fly the trunk capital city routes at peak times but A220s will be a much more common sight.
If your a pilot wanting to try international for a few years then settle on the domestic fleet and have a family your applying to the wrong company by applying for mainline.
Haha yeah good one