QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
It is not possible for a company to deliver a sustainable good quality product while engaging in deceitful and cruel behaviour towards its employees, such as we have witnessed in Qantas documented treatment of its engineers - which continues to this day.
Anecdotes about the occasional selfless behaviour of cabin crew are nice to read, but they prove nothing. Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Qantas is dysfunctional, period, because it's management is dysfunctional. Superhuman performance by staff who adhere to the values of "the old Qantas " which we knew and loved can't mask this.
That is why myself and many others don't trust it and won't use it.
Anecdotes about the occasional selfless behaviour of cabin crew are nice to read, but they prove nothing. Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Qantas is dysfunctional, period, because it's management is dysfunctional. Superhuman performance by staff who adhere to the values of "the old Qantas " which we knew and loved can't mask this.
That is why myself and many others don't trust it and won't use it.
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Sunfish,
I haven't got the time, but I'd love to know the number of times, in your many thousand posts, you've predicted the end of Qantas? Or that it was about to be taken over by private equity? Or that the entire world economic system was on the brink and about to teeter over the precipice? Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? It's wearing thin.
I haven't got the time, but I'd love to know the number of times, in your many thousand posts, you've predicted the end of Qantas? Or that it was about to be taken over by private equity? Or that the entire world economic system was on the brink and about to teeter over the precipice? Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? It's wearing thin.
fringtok:
I've neve said "Qantas is going to end" what I have consistently said, is that Qantas, as a publicly owned and traded stockmarket entity that is the national flag carrier for Australia is going to end. Qantas is going to end up as a brand name for someone else or a privately owned entity bent on screwing the life out of Australian consumers.
Evidence? WTF do you think the APA bid was?
WTF do you think the deliberately cruel and unusual treatment of Qantas staff is about -which continues to this day? Do you think that is sustainable?
WTF do you think the Alan Joyce lunches with Geoff Dixon were about?
WTF do you think the sudden Red Q rush of blood, followed by its abandonment, was about?
WTF do you think the grounding of the airline was about?
WTF do you think the tie up with Emirates is about?
WTF do you think the angry comments of John Singleton were about?
WTF do you think VB is doing so well?
Fringy baby, these are not the actions of a Board and management group that are bent on creating sustainable shareholder value, let alone any competitive level of customer satisfaction.
As for the world economy, it is collapsing as we watch: Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and more to follow. The U.S. "fiscal cliff" approaches with massive programed spending cuts. Just read the IMF latest report. We have also had the second self immolation this month - an unemployed man set himself on fire in front of the Quirinale today. There is over 25% unemployment in Spain and Greece.
Talk to the stockbrokers, mine tells me that trading volume is pitiful because even the mums and dads have worked out what is happening by now.
If you think the future for Qantas is rosy and so is the world economy then I have a bridge to sell you.
Sunfish,
I haven't got the time, but I'd love to know the number of times, in your many thousand posts, you've predicted the end of Qantas? Or that it was about to be taken over by private equity? Or that the entire world economic system was on the brink and about to teeter over the precipice? Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? It's wearing thin.
I haven't got the time, but I'd love to know the number of times, in your many thousand posts, you've predicted the end of Qantas? Or that it was about to be taken over by private equity? Or that the entire world economic system was on the brink and about to teeter over the precipice? Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? It's wearing thin.
Evidence? WTF do you think the APA bid was?
WTF do you think the deliberately cruel and unusual treatment of Qantas staff is about -which continues to this day? Do you think that is sustainable?
WTF do you think the Alan Joyce lunches with Geoff Dixon were about?
WTF do you think the sudden Red Q rush of blood, followed by its abandonment, was about?
WTF do you think the grounding of the airline was about?
WTF do you think the tie up with Emirates is about?
WTF do you think the angry comments of John Singleton were about?
WTF do you think VB is doing so well?
Fringy baby, these are not the actions of a Board and management group that are bent on creating sustainable shareholder value, let alone any competitive level of customer satisfaction.
As for the world economy, it is collapsing as we watch: Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and more to follow. The U.S. "fiscal cliff" approaches with massive programed spending cuts. Just read the IMF latest report. We have also had the second self immolation this month - an unemployed man set himself on fire in front of the Quirinale today. There is over 25% unemployment in Spain and Greece.
Talk to the stockbrokers, mine tells me that trading volume is pitiful because even the mums and dads have worked out what is happening by now.
If you think the future for Qantas is rosy and so is the world economy then I have a bridge to sell you.
Last edited by Sunfish; 18th Oct 2012 at 20:19.
WTF do you think the tie up with Emirates is about?
WTF do you think the angry comments of John Singleton were about?
There was a time Sunfish when I thought you really had a handle on things. You really do come across these days as a big noting know it all.
For the 1st time in years many of us actually in QANTAS see some positive signs for our future.
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"hindsight" is a wonderful thing
Evidence? WTF do you think the APA bid was?
why?
One reason could be... brand Qantas was stronger than the deal ? (or similar words to that effect..)
Again with respect Sunfish, it really doesn't matter anymore... a lot has changed since that APA stuff, it seems a long time ago now already.. and well documented on here.
today it's a different playing field.... another ballgame.. the game was restructured during the break..
Interesting video from the UNSW school of business late last year..the APA deal was long gone then too sunfish...this CEO reveals his reasons why he joined EI..even he is reassuring.. and positive.. whether you believe it or not.. if I was asked to pick who was the grim reaper out of Sunfish or the CEO in the video, the way things are going this week the CEO in the video would come second... I say this because I believe Qantas will survive and I think it fair to say most people on here feel the same.. deep down...
For the 1st time in years many of us actually in QANTAS see some positive signs for our future.
I have a second wish, all players come out and shake hands and play on the same side for the good of the game... Qantas, is one of the world's best known aviation names, long may it continue..
Last edited by TIMA9X; 19th Oct 2012 at 18:10.
Some people here might like to ask the engineers how rosy the future is. The studied cruelty of Joyce's continuing treatment of them is disgusting. Refer to the "big announcement" thread for details.
As I said, an organization cannot maintain such behavior towards one section of its workforce while being cosy with another for any length of time. The leopard doesn't change it's spots and neither does the Board.
As I said, an organization cannot maintain such behavior towards one section of its workforce while being cosy with another for any length of time. The leopard doesn't change it's spots and neither does the Board.
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The leopard doesn't change it's spots and neither does the Board.
Emirates sees potential to work with budget Jetstar
(Bloomberg) / 19 October 2012
Emirates said it could work with both Qantas Airways main unit and the Australian carrier’s budget arm Jetstar as it seeks to boost services in the Asia-Pacific region.Emirates sees “a lot of potential” opportunities in working with Jetstar in addition to a planned pact with the Qantas unit, Anand Lakshminarayanan, vice president for route planning, said at the Aviation Outlook Asia conference in Singapore on Thursday.
Discussions with the carrier can’t begin until the Qantas accord receives regulatory approval, he said.
The Qantas venture will help Dubai-based Emirates cut costs and let it add capacity in Australia without hitting a limit on international flight rights, Lakshminarayanan said. Qantas agreed to the pact in September, ditching a 17-year accord with British Airways, in a bid to end losses on international routes.
Qantas will shift its European hub to Dubai from Singapore under the accord, which is due to come into effect in April. Working with Emirates will let the Australian carrier add more than 60 one-stop destinations to its network. Emirates will gain access to Qantas’s domestic network covering more than 50 destinations. Emirates is also open to partnerships with other carriers, Lakshminarayanan said. Nothing is imminent, he said. — http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/inside.asp?xfile=/data/aviation/2012/October/aviation_October30.xml§ion=aviation
(Bloomberg) / 19 October 2012
Emirates said it could work with both Qantas Airways main unit and the Australian carrier’s budget arm Jetstar as it seeks to boost services in the Asia-Pacific region.Emirates sees “a lot of potential” opportunities in working with Jetstar in addition to a planned pact with the Qantas unit, Anand Lakshminarayanan, vice president for route planning, said at the Aviation Outlook Asia conference in Singapore on Thursday.
Discussions with the carrier can’t begin until the Qantas accord receives regulatory approval, he said.
The Qantas venture will help Dubai-based Emirates cut costs and let it add capacity in Australia without hitting a limit on international flight rights, Lakshminarayanan said. Qantas agreed to the pact in September, ditching a 17-year accord with British Airways, in a bid to end losses on international routes.
Qantas will shift its European hub to Dubai from Singapore under the accord, which is due to come into effect in April. Working with Emirates will let the Australian carrier add more than 60 one-stop destinations to its network. Emirates will gain access to Qantas’s domestic network covering more than 50 destinations. Emirates is also open to partnerships with other carriers, Lakshminarayanan said. Nothing is imminent, he said. — http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/inside.asp?xfile=/data/aviation/2012/October/aviation_October30.xml§ion=aviation
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Tima9x
The video link you just posted.
Joyce said at 8:16 that the Qantas International business lost over $200m last year.
Correct me if I'm wrong. However hadn't Joyce previously stated the International business lost $450m.
MC
The video link you just posted.
Joyce said at 8:16 that the Qantas International business lost over $200m last year.
Correct me if I'm wrong. However hadn't Joyce previously stated the International business lost $450m.
MC
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Hi MC,
the video posted was produced in December 2011, at that time he was still banging on about only a 200 million loss if I remember correctly..
the video posted was produced in December 2011, at that time he was still banging on about only a 200 million loss if I remember correctly..
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Senator XENOPHON: In terms of the Qantas Sale Act and the whole issue of subsidiaries—and Mr Johnson referred to this on the last occasion—there is nothing in the Qantas Sale Act that would prevent international routes being flown by Jetstar, for instance, and Qantas becoming a largely domestic carrier. There is nothing in the act that would prohibit that.
Mr Joyce : There is no prohibition in the act against all of our international routes being replaced by Emirates or United one day. The market will dictate who flies internationally and who will survive. I will tell you our intentions. I hope that someday Jetstar can be very big, because that would be great for Australia and the group, because these aircraft would be flying all over Asia. We want Qantas to be in the same position. I want to turn around the international business so that Qantas can have the same growth opportunities that Jetstar has. I absolutely believe that you cannot lock into legislation restrictions on Qantas to somehow ensure that Qantas stays in the race, because it will not happen. If you put those restrictions in place, Senator, all you will be ensuring is the absolute demise of Qantas. It has to be commercial, it has to be flexible and it has to adapt. That is the only way you can ensure what you are saying never happens and it is not our intention. We absolutely want to scrape around to be flying to every continent around the world, but we have to have a commercial entity.
Mr Joyce : There is no prohibition in the act against all of our international routes being replaced by Emirates or United one day. The market will dictate who flies internationally and who will survive. I will tell you our intentions. I hope that someday Jetstar can be very big, because that would be great for Australia and the group, because these aircraft would be flying all over Asia. We want Qantas to be in the same position. I want to turn around the international business so that Qantas can have the same growth opportunities that Jetstar has. I absolutely believe that you cannot lock into legislation restrictions on Qantas to somehow ensure that Qantas stays in the race, because it will not happen. If you put those restrictions in place, Senator, all you will be ensuring is the absolute demise of Qantas. It has to be commercial, it has to be flexible and it has to adapt. That is the only way you can ensure what you are saying never happens and it is not our intention. We absolutely want to scrape around to be flying to every continent around the world, but we have to have a commercial entity.
Very careful use of disinformation to obscure the true motives, given he was likely already in discussion with Emirates about the non-equity takeover at the time he made this statement.
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National Carrier Status
If Qantas is removed from international routes and replaced by Emirates then it is fair to conclude that Qantas would lose its national carrier status.Does the Australian government then negotiate bilateral aviation agreements on behalf of Emirates ?
This doesnt appear to have been thought through by the diminutive Irish boofhead.
This doesnt appear to have been thought through by the diminutive Irish boofhead.
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Hey lets blame the unions (again)!
Qantas named best airline, just not in the sky | News.com.au
Isn't it amazing how they are re-writing history that the unions grounded the fleet now...
Qantas has blamed the poor result on the damaging grounding of its entire fleet last October.
"Qantas has ranked consistently in the top 10 airlines in the world for many years, however following the industrial campaign by several unions which disrupted thousands of passengers we anticipated our ranking may slip," a Qantas spokesman said.
"Qantas has ranked consistently in the top 10 airlines in the world for many years, however following the industrial campaign by several unions which disrupted thousands of passengers we anticipated our ranking may slip," a Qantas spokesman said.
Last edited by ejectx3; 23rd Oct 2012 at 12:00.
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Isn't it amazing how they are re-writing history that the unions grounded the fleet now...
and the story is a sign that AJ and co are warming us up for some announcement.... note there is a pattern here, it always starts with a tickler from News Ltd... the first port of call for the corporate affairs department to start a spin campaign.... oh that's right, the AGM is just around the corner....
I liked this point from the blog attached to this story written back in June..interesting..
It would be a great move for the brand if they could bring low-cost subsidiary Jetstar back into the Qantas family, if only in name. The more people travelling under the Qantas brand, the more loyalty it will engender and hopefully get more people using the ailing international side of the business too. 
Great, let's start working on that joint seniority list....this will be fun to watch. 
There is something called the Qantas Sale Act that may make it difficult to do. Qantas was always a low-cost carrier, the front paid for the back...just like Cathay does...How much has all this stupidity cost and will cost the shareholder? Get rid of the silly little Irishman, he is out of his depth completely....As for the Chairman, he is an ignoramus....
There is something called the Qantas Sale Act that may make it difficult to do. Qantas was always a low-cost carrier, the front paid for the back...just like Cathay does...How much has all this stupidity cost and will cost the shareholder? Get rid of the silly little Irishman, he is out of his depth completely....As for the Chairman, he is an ignoramus....
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And Singapore makes another LCC move
Scoot to buy 20 Boeing 787s - flights from 2014 - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller
Scoot to buy 20 Boeing 787s - flights from 2014 - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller
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Since Tiger shifted from the (now defunct) budget terminal in SIN to the SIA terminals the connections to Scoot have become seamless. Or at least more so. It seems that the QF moves are being echoed and improved upon throughout Asia. First mover advantage may soon wane, and the family of QF offshoots relegated to "foreign interloper" status.
After my inflammatory bon mot on the Jit Cunnict* situation I hesitate to dwell too much on this scenario lest I be accused of being too glibly smug about the prospects of job losses in the many subsidiaries. (Which, parenthetically, I am not-but I will never leave a punch line unuttered)
* re anti Kiwi bias: No. They may be my favourite variety of human, and I'd like to retire there. As a troll. But a nice, giving, kind of troll.
After my inflammatory bon mot on the Jit Cunnict* situation I hesitate to dwell too much on this scenario lest I be accused of being too glibly smug about the prospects of job losses in the many subsidiaries. (Which, parenthetically, I am not-but I will never leave a punch line unuttered)
* re anti Kiwi bias: No. They may be my favourite variety of human, and I'd like to retire there. As a troll. But a nice, giving, kind of troll.
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Interesting piece today..... warming up for this no doubt
Qantas' Annual General Meeting
Qantas' Annual General Meeting
"What you have seen in media headlines may have left you with the impression that our response to the challenges before Qantas is to retreat, or just cut back,” Joyce told the American Chamber of Commerce in a speech in August. “That’s not the case. We are undertaking a wholesale transformation of Qantas to make it better and stronger, the premium Australian airline for our times. “Our domestic and international Qantas customers want a great product, both in the airport and on board the aircraft. They want modern, intuitive service – world class service which is distinctly Australian. We aim to deliver just that all the time.
“Which is why we have embarked on a wholesale, multi-year program of investment, training and innovation.”
Joyce says Qantas’s average fleet age is now the youngest it has been since privatisation in 1993 – “younger than the fleets of Cathay Pacific, Lufthansa and the three major American airlines”.
“By the end of 2012, 11,000 Qantas domestic and international frontline staff will have completed our new customer service training program.
“We are shaking up the service culture, loosening the ties, giving our people greater opportunity to freestyle and respond to our customers and their needs.
“We have put in place a ‘closed loop’ feedback system that allows us to evaluate our service based on advice from a panel of almost 13,000 Frequent Flyers.
“We have asked some of our best people to become in-flight coaches, and observe and mentor cabin crew in flight. Customer feedback on those flights is fantastic, and our people are loving the opportunity to showcase their skills.”
“Which is why we have embarked on a wholesale, multi-year program of investment, training and innovation.”
Joyce says Qantas’s average fleet age is now the youngest it has been since privatisation in 1993 – “younger than the fleets of Cathay Pacific, Lufthansa and the three major American airlines”.
“By the end of 2012, 11,000 Qantas domestic and international frontline staff will have completed our new customer service training program.
“We are shaking up the service culture, loosening the ties, giving our people greater opportunity to freestyle and respond to our customers and their needs.
“We have put in place a ‘closed loop’ feedback system that allows us to evaluate our service based on advice from a panel of almost 13,000 Frequent Flyers.
“We have asked some of our best people to become in-flight coaches, and observe and mentor cabin crew in flight. Customer feedback on those flights is fantastic, and our people are loving the opportunity to showcase their skills.”
