MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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Thing is, Hamish McDonald of the SMH said that Scoot would be SQ's "premium airline". Also I don't think Lee Kuan Yew ever said in the 1970s that SIA should be like Qantas. Perhaps he should check his facts.
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But perhaps Joyce's biggest limitation is his own mindset, formed in the low-cost carrier market that expanded so dramatically in a merged and borderless Europe, and then here at Jetstar. Add the strike-breaking mentality of his chairman, who has a background in Rio Tinto coal mines and the KKR private equity and junk bond group, and you have a familiar syndrome of a management that sees solutions in ''smashing the culture''.
With a pre-tax profit up 46 per cent to $552 million, despite a claimed loss of $216 million on international fights, Qantas is far from the imminent basket case suggested by Joyce and Jetstar's chief executive, Bruce Buchanan.
Meanwhile, the Middle East competition - Emirates, Qatar, Etihad and Gulf airlines - is heading for a shakeout.
Joyce might do well to give Menadue a call. Of course, Qantas pilots, engineers and ground crews will have to concede some productivity gains, and the word is they are ready to do so. But they need to be taken into an Asian expansion, not left behind
Read more: The Q is for quality - not a quick buck
With a pre-tax profit up 46 per cent to $552 million, despite a claimed loss of $216 million on international fights, Qantas is far from the imminent basket case suggested by Joyce and Jetstar's chief executive, Bruce Buchanan.
Meanwhile, the Middle East competition - Emirates, Qatar, Etihad and Gulf airlines - is heading for a shakeout.
Joyce might do well to give Menadue a call. Of course, Qantas pilots, engineers and ground crews will have to concede some productivity gains, and the word is they are ready to do so. But they need to be taken into an Asian expansion, not left behind
Read more: The Q is for quality - not a quick buck
The question on everyone's lips. LC's plans are outdated, AJ is out of his depth in handling the IR issues, basically making things worse on a day to day basis.
LC & AJ are not good people managers, the major ingredient for a successful happy airline. Their Asian plans are vague at best, raising more questions than answers.
Hamish Mc Donald does know Asia well that's for sure.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 12th Nov 2011 at 03:17.
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Loss Of Expertise
Mc Donald makes some very valid points.None more so than the highlighting of the loss of expertise Qantas has experienced since privatisation.
Once Strong and his coterie of short haul managers took over international it has been in decline.Strong had no skill or mind set to run an international operation.Most if not all of the experience has left Qantas and gone elsewhere.Borghetti is a prime example.He has achieved enormous changes at Virgin without alienating the bulk of his workforce.He knows how to manage change and take the workforce with him.As McDonald so rightly points out the current Qantas management wants to "smash the culture".They simply do not know how to manage change.Joyce has a narrow mindset and Clifford is nothing more than an aging Corporate bully driven by his own narcissism and inflated ego.
They have an agenda that does not bode well for Qantas Longevity
Once Strong and his coterie of short haul managers took over international it has been in decline.Strong had no skill or mind set to run an international operation.Most if not all of the experience has left Qantas and gone elsewhere.Borghetti is a prime example.He has achieved enormous changes at Virgin without alienating the bulk of his workforce.He knows how to manage change and take the workforce with him.As McDonald so rightly points out the current Qantas management wants to "smash the culture".They simply do not know how to manage change.Joyce has a narrow mindset and Clifford is nothing more than an aging Corporate bully driven by his own narcissism and inflated ego.
They have an agenda that does not bode well for Qantas Longevity
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Mods I'll let you rule on the acceptability of this email doing the rounds.
A Irishman wants a job, but the foreman won't hire him until he passes a little math test.
Here is your first question, the foreman said. "Without using numbers, represent the number 9."
"Without numbers?" The Irishman says? "Dat is easy." And proceeds to draw three trees.
"What's this?" the boss asks.
"Have you ain't got no brain? Tree and tree plus tree makes 9" says the Irishman.
"Fair enough," says the boss. "Here's your second question. Use the same rules, but this time the number is 99."
The Irishman stares into space for a while, then picks up the picture that he has just drawn and makes a smudge on each tree... "Ere you go."
The boss scratches his head and says, "How on earth do you get that to represent 99?"
"Each of da trees is dirty now. So, it's dirty tree, and dirty tree, plus dirty tree. Dat makes 99."
The boss is getting worried that he's going to actually have to hire this Irishman, so he says, "All right, last question. Same rules again, but represent the number 100."
The Irishman stares into space some more, then he picks up the picture again and makes a little mark at the base of each tree and says, "Ere you go. One hundred."
The boss looks at the attempt. "You must be nuts if you think that represents a hundred!"
The Irishman leans forward and points to the marks at the base of each tree and whispers, "A little dog come along and poop by each tree. So now you got dirty tree and a turd, dirty tree and a turd, and dirty tree and a turd, which makes ONE HUNDRED!"
The Irishman is now head of Qantas
A Irishman wants a job, but the foreman won't hire him until he passes a little math test.
Here is your first question, the foreman said. "Without using numbers, represent the number 9."
"Without numbers?" The Irishman says? "Dat is easy." And proceeds to draw three trees.
"What's this?" the boss asks.
"Have you ain't got no brain? Tree and tree plus tree makes 9" says the Irishman.
"Fair enough," says the boss. "Here's your second question. Use the same rules, but this time the number is 99."
The Irishman stares into space for a while, then picks up the picture that he has just drawn and makes a smudge on each tree... "Ere you go."
The boss scratches his head and says, "How on earth do you get that to represent 99?"
"Each of da trees is dirty now. So, it's dirty tree, and dirty tree, plus dirty tree. Dat makes 99."
The boss is getting worried that he's going to actually have to hire this Irishman, so he says, "All right, last question. Same rules again, but represent the number 100."
The Irishman stares into space some more, then he picks up the picture again and makes a little mark at the base of each tree and says, "Ere you go. One hundred."
The boss looks at the attempt. "You must be nuts if you think that represents a hundred!"
The Irishman leans forward and points to the marks at the base of each tree and whispers, "A little dog come along and poop by each tree. So now you got dirty tree and a turd, dirty tree and a turd, and dirty tree and a turd, which makes ONE HUNDRED!"
The Irishman is now head of Qantas
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Joyce has a narrow mindset and Clifford is nothing more than an aging Corporate bully driven by his own narcissism and inflated ego.
They have an agenda that does not bode well for Qantas Longevity
They have an agenda that does not bode well for Qantas Longevity
The only way for QANTAS to move forward and actually prosper is to remove the board in its entirety. Strong has been there a long time and buggered QANTAS whe he headed the privatisation. Still the head of the remuneration committee allowing AJ's pay increase.
Just ridding QANTAS of AJ or LC is not enough. No real difference than Jackson and Dixon.
QANTAS needs QANTAS people in the board. Name one that wasn't a blow-in from a matey's club.
Although a former senior QANTAS executive is how heading Virgin Australia.
Last edited by QF94; 12th Nov 2011 at 13:09.
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Are you all that stupid to realise that JB has the EASY decisions to make? He is a great guy but the decisions he now makes are easy compared to AJ. Wait till he has to make a game changing decision. You will all whinge and hate him. The predictabilitty of of the Prnue community is more certain than my fridge breaking down. Let the uninmformed vitrioil commence.
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Cargo
Oh, is that right? We are all stupid on this web site eh? Cargo, which bit don't you understand? Let me explain, so even someone of your intellect will get it:
Difficult decisions? AJ has had a difficult time recently running QF because of who and what he is ie the calibre of the man (and same for Board and Management), not because of the difficult issues QF faces. It's that simple....Oh, still don't get it? Then let me further explain:
If JB was now the QF chief, the decisions that clearly needed to be made to re-invigorate QF and its staff would be exceptionally easy for him, as you seem to think have been easy over at Virgin. We would now be in far brighter position, going head to head with our real competitors and not the staff. Investing in the premium product and people and not these ridiculous Asian fantasies that have absolutely no chance of success.
Game changing decision? You bet Cargo! It would all have changed in QF had JB got the gig, just as it has over at the Virgin. No industrial action, a pride in the product and a fierce competitiveness that would have seen QF once again the number one airline in the world. Now, there will not be a QF in 5 years
Decisions are not difficult if made by the correct person. AJ and Co. are not the right people, and so the decisions they face are made all the more difficult....
Difficult decisions? AJ has had a difficult time recently running QF because of who and what he is ie the calibre of the man (and same for Board and Management), not because of the difficult issues QF faces. It's that simple....Oh, still don't get it? Then let me further explain:
If JB was now the QF chief, the decisions that clearly needed to be made to re-invigorate QF and its staff would be exceptionally easy for him, as you seem to think have been easy over at Virgin. We would now be in far brighter position, going head to head with our real competitors and not the staff. Investing in the premium product and people and not these ridiculous Asian fantasies that have absolutely no chance of success.
Game changing decision? You bet Cargo! It would all have changed in QF had JB got the gig, just as it has over at the Virgin. No industrial action, a pride in the product and a fierce competitiveness that would have seen QF once again the number one airline in the world. Now, there will not be a QF in 5 years
Decisions are not difficult if made by the correct person. AJ and Co. are not the right people, and so the decisions they face are made all the more difficult....
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Virgins best move was to see Godfrey out the door.
Dixons Millions is spot on, QF need to punt AJ, LC and the entire board. Jimmy Bowtie has been lurking the halls since 1985, way too much time to ingrain oneself into the woodwork like a bad stain, time to go.
QF imploded when they lost Massimo and Storrie.
Dixons Millions is spot on, QF need to punt AJ, LC and the entire board. Jimmy Bowtie has been lurking the halls since 1985, way too much time to ingrain oneself into the woodwork like a bad stain, time to go.
QF imploded when they lost Massimo and Storrie.
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Originally Posted by Cargo744
Are you all that stupid to realise that JB has the EASY decisions to make?
I bet 99% of the (male
) members here did just the same !!I guess then, that makes me like 99% of PPruners
.So, if 99% of PPruners disagree with you, does that make them "stupid", or is it possible that YOU'RE the odd one out ?
Decisions aren't hard to make..........I'm guessing that LC & AJ had no trouble at all making the decision to lock out the staff
Maybe making a good decision is harder ?
ST
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Warning to workforce
Quoted from Sunday Papers (my bolding)
Gillard says worse is to come
-Mark Kenny
-Hawaii
I take it FWA have now received their directions from the 'Great Leader'.
Gillard says worse is to come
-Mark Kenny
-Hawaii
JULIA Gillard has used an international forum to deliver a tough message to Australia’s workforce: if you’re stressed by change, get over it because worse is to come and it may involve moving to another country.
And she has flagged that the days Australians working up to retirement and then stopping are also numbered as older employees are required to supplement retirement incomes with part-time work, well past the current age of 65 or even the planned retirement age of 67.
But there will be tax benefits to doing so.
Appearing at an APEC business leaders’ forum in Honolulu, Ms Gillard fielded questions on topics from the Qantas grounding — it was within the law but “extremist”; to in the workplace employers should not complain about lack of skilled employees while there is unemployment; the role of industrial relations Laws — they have not tilted too far towards unions; and the future of work as trade becomes more borderless.
She said the future workforce “will need to be a workforce that is highly adaptable, highly resilient because the pace of change will stress people’.
“I think it will be a workforce increasingly mobile, it will be more and more common for countries to have guest worker arrangements. It will be more and more common for people to choose to live part of their life in another nation, so more mobile but in all of that I stress again, we can’t forget the foundation skills,” she said.
And Ms Gillard had an uncompromising message to people seeking work in countries such as Australia.
“If you don’t have the ticket that gets you into the rest of the conversation, and that comes in the way of literacy and numeracy, then the rest of it will always be locked away from you,” she told the business leaders.
And she has flagged that the days Australians working up to retirement and then stopping are also numbered as older employees are required to supplement retirement incomes with part-time work, well past the current age of 65 or even the planned retirement age of 67.
But there will be tax benefits to doing so.
Appearing at an APEC business leaders’ forum in Honolulu, Ms Gillard fielded questions on topics from the Qantas grounding — it was within the law but “extremist”; to in the workplace employers should not complain about lack of skilled employees while there is unemployment; the role of industrial relations Laws — they have not tilted too far towards unions; and the future of work as trade becomes more borderless.
She said the future workforce “will need to be a workforce that is highly adaptable, highly resilient because the pace of change will stress people’.
“I think it will be a workforce increasingly mobile, it will be more and more common for countries to have guest worker arrangements. It will be more and more common for people to choose to live part of their life in another nation, so more mobile but in all of that I stress again, we can’t forget the foundation skills,” she said.
And Ms Gillard had an uncompromising message to people seeking work in countries such as Australia.
“If you don’t have the ticket that gets you into the rest of the conversation, and that comes in the way of literacy and numeracy, then the rest of it will always be locked away from you,” she told the business leaders.
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Dixon's.
I didn't call all of the Pruners stupid.. read the post. JB is a great person (in person he is acceptional). I just want to make the point that his current decisions have been in favour of the employees. When he makes the hard decisions like letting people go or reducing their pay people like you will not be lauding him but calling him some sort of Nazi. You really need to grow up and live in the real world.
I didn't call all of the Pruners stupid.. read the post. JB is a great person (in person he is acceptional). I just want to make the point that his current decisions have been in favour of the employees. When he makes the hard decisions like letting people go or reducing their pay people like you will not be lauding him but calling him some sort of Nazi. You really need to grow up and live in the real world.
if you’re stressed by change, get over it because worse is to come and it may involve moving to another country
Most countries in our region have an excess labour problem and the last thing they want is Australians knocking on their doors looking for a job. Most countries and especially so in Aviation are very very parochial about employment in aviation. If QF gets off shored there are not going to be to many Australians working in it as they won't be able to justify the salaries. Life as a non citizen of any country is a VERY expensive exercise.
Second to all that what PM in their right mind thinks that it's ok to erode the tax base? If people heed her words and go overseas then who is going to pay tax in Australia?
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Cargo
I didn't call all of the Pruners stupid.. read the post.
Are you all that stupid to realise that JB has the EASY decisions to make?
You really need to grow up and live in the real world.
Re read my previous post Cargo. More than once may I suggest...
It came to me in a flash of brilliance during the engagement survey before last under the 'suggestions at the end' for better company performance etc etc.
Resignation and suicide of all senior management and board members I stated very clearly.
As it said in the preface all comments and feedback are treated very seriously and given a great deal of thought to.
I have no doubt in my mind that my comments have been discussed at the highest level (I can do nothing more than take my brilliant managers at their word) but naturally it will take time to implement successfully, as they have now had these items at the top of their 'to-do' list for almost three years, I have no doubt it will happen in the very near future.
I also made mention over the last 10 years or so of the shakespearian tragedy that Qf today is, and that personally I had innoculated myself against the incompetent fools managing the place, so I was OK. Further, there is (if you look in the right way with the correct squint) you can make out a grassy knoll opposite QCA. I firmly believe that when push comes to shove, THAT grassy knoll may well hold the keys to Qantas' future prosperity.
Resignation and suicide of all senior management and board members I stated very clearly.
As it said in the preface all comments and feedback are treated very seriously and given a great deal of thought to.
I have no doubt in my mind that my comments have been discussed at the highest level (I can do nothing more than take my brilliant managers at their word) but naturally it will take time to implement successfully, as they have now had these items at the top of their 'to-do' list for almost three years, I have no doubt it will happen in the very near future.
I also made mention over the last 10 years or so of the shakespearian tragedy that Qf today is, and that personally I had innoculated myself against the incompetent fools managing the place, so I was OK. Further, there is (if you look in the right way with the correct squint) you can make out a grassy knoll opposite QCA. I firmly believe that when push comes to shove, THAT grassy knoll may well hold the keys to Qantas' future prosperity.
If Singapore Airlines could be as good as Qantas, it would be a success.
You also have to remember that Qantas materially assisted Malaysia Singapore Airlines with technical and management expertise to get established. MSA eventually split into Singapore Airlines And Malaysian Airlines, as the City State was not getting on with its next door neighbour in a number of areas.
So the cost differential thing has been going on for a very long time. Qantas has to figure out how they can again provide a product that people value and are prepared to pay a premium for. They had it figured once and it isn't too difficult. Maybe get the Singaporeans down for advice?
V-Jet. You are banned from DFW patterns, forthwith. No more getting ideas!
