MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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Quote -
Got the same one, with the same patronising salutation.
We're not on first name terms AJ, you c__t.
Funny,...I remember a local Gold Coast City Councilor (Broadbeach based IIRCC?) Sent a common letter to me addressing me by first name.....I was deeply offended, curiously I wondered why something so seemingly innocuous offended me so much......we'd never met, spoken, certainly hadn't exchanged email this was years before innynet!
It was an undeserved assumed familiarity, completely without regard to the unintentionally implied closeness of our common circumstance.....and as I said a common letter, I'd seen friends and neighbours with the same letter similarly addressed on a first name basis.
Ya know I reckon that some dill just out of a marketing course at a Uni somewhere was told in a lecture this was a good idea.....and QF probably pay him 6 figures 'cos he has a degree, but no idea....?
You know the type!....similar argument to the Bean counters knowing the cost of everything & the Value of nothing.......
oh and yes, have you been planning similar contingencies all these weeks that there may have been an escalation??......ALAN?
Got the same one, with the same patronising salutation.
We're not on first name terms AJ, you c__t.
Funny,...I remember a local Gold Coast City Councilor (Broadbeach based IIRCC?) Sent a common letter to me addressing me by first name.....I was deeply offended, curiously I wondered why something so seemingly innocuous offended me so much......we'd never met, spoken, certainly hadn't exchanged email this was years before innynet!
It was an undeserved assumed familiarity, completely without regard to the unintentionally implied closeness of our common circumstance.....and as I said a common letter, I'd seen friends and neighbours with the same letter similarly addressed on a first name basis.
Ya know I reckon that some dill just out of a marketing course at a Uni somewhere was told in a lecture this was a good idea.....and QF probably pay him 6 figures 'cos he has a degree, but no idea....?
You know the type!....similar argument to the Bean counters knowing the cost of everything & the Value of nothing.......
oh and yes, have you been planning similar contingencies all these weeks that there may have been an escalation??......ALAN?
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How do we know that crews were told inflight about the grounding? Were acars messages sent?
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Call Australia home: push to contain Qantas
The chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, will tell a Senate inquiry tomorrow the amendment, proposed by the independent senator Nick Xenophon and backed by the Greens, would curtail his business's ''right and entitlement'' to compete in international aviation.
Labor had opposed the amendment - which targets the issues at the heart of Qantas' industrial disputes - but with anger still hot over the airline's decision to ground its fleet at the weekend some in the ALP now favour a reconsideration of the national carrier's obligations.
''I think we need to look at what it means to be the national carrier,'' the Labor senator Doug Cameron said.
Read more: Call Australia home: push to contain Qantas
The chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, will tell a Senate inquiry tomorrow the amendment, proposed by the independent senator Nick Xenophon and backed by the Greens, would curtail his business's ''right and entitlement'' to compete in international aviation.
Labor had opposed the amendment - which targets the issues at the heart of Qantas' industrial disputes - but with anger still hot over the airline's decision to ground its fleet at the weekend some in the ALP now favour a reconsideration of the national carrier's obligations.
''I think we need to look at what it means to be the national carrier,'' the Labor senator Doug Cameron said.
Read more: Call Australia home: push to contain Qantas
Call Australia home, or I still prefer, Save our Qantas.
.
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I guess we could all sit around and play tiddly winks waiting for Qantas to tell the world what it has in mind ... or we could put two and two together.... and ask some questions.
Qantas will weather turbulence coming out of Canberra
The attacks on Qantas over who got told what when about the group's decision to ground its aircraft on Saturday is a confection.
To borrrow from Sherlock Holmes, the dog hasn't barked - there is no evidence that the Qantas chief executive, Alan Joyce, has terminally damaged his group's relations with the government.
He's dented Qantas's reputation, and is pedaling hard now to repair it.
But the restructuring of Qantas that Joyce has begun is unlikely to be fatally undermined by what happened on the weekend. The government understands what Joyce is trying to achieve and it supports it.
Senior Labor figures including the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, the Assistant Treasurer, Bill Shorten,
and the Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, have criticised Qantas for not informing the government of the shutdown sooner.
But even as he said again yesterday that Qantas had not told the government that a full grounding was imminent, Albanese acknowledged that Qantas had been talking ''very clearly and publicly'' that if industrial action continued there would be groundings.
The ''logical extension'' was that ''it would reach a point whereby the airline would make a decision because of the proportion of the fleet that was grounded, that it was time to ground the entire fleet,'' he said.
Translation: Alan Joyce didn't tell government ministers several weeks ago to set their phone alarms to remind them at 5pm on Saturday, October 29, that Qantas would be announcing a decision to lock out its pilots, engineers and ground crew and, as a consequence, immediately grounding its fleet.
The attacks on Qantas over who got told what when about the group's decision to ground its aircraft on Saturday is a confection.
To borrrow from Sherlock Holmes, the dog hasn't barked - there is no evidence that the Qantas chief executive, Alan Joyce, has terminally damaged his group's relations with the government.
He's dented Qantas's reputation, and is pedaling hard now to repair it.
But the restructuring of Qantas that Joyce has begun is unlikely to be fatally undermined by what happened on the weekend. The government understands what Joyce is trying to achieve and it supports it.
Senior Labor figures including the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, the Assistant Treasurer, Bill Shorten,
and the Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, have criticised Qantas for not informing the government of the shutdown sooner.
But even as he said again yesterday that Qantas had not told the government that a full grounding was imminent, Albanese acknowledged that Qantas had been talking ''very clearly and publicly'' that if industrial action continued there would be groundings.
The ''logical extension'' was that ''it would reach a point whereby the airline would make a decision because of the proportion of the fleet that was grounded, that it was time to ground the entire fleet,'' he said.
Translation: Alan Joyce didn't tell government ministers several weeks ago to set their phone alarms to remind them at 5pm on Saturday, October 29, that Qantas would be announcing a decision to lock out its pilots, engineers and ground crew and, as a consequence, immediately grounding its fleet.
He will twist and struggle answering.
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Angry Rat, you are correct about your comments from the Herald Sun albeit Andrew Bolt, ditto Ray Hadley, ditto Alan Jones. Alas, their blasting of QF staff is not really the issue with them, they simply see it as another chance to blame Gillard and her unions, another chance to bring a election on (I am with them there) so its really about the unions, regardless if it was Rio Tinto, the Wharves, or whoever. But in doing so have not recognised or even acknowledged the damage done to the staff or the company over the last ten years, they are on a union hunt, and poor downtrodden, beaten up Joyce is their hero. What a shame in their hunt to destroy the Labor Govt, they have failed to understand the truth.
Further to gobbledock in post 1095
Surely there are many employees from all departments that are anti management. So lets ask them some questions.
Were any employees asked to work overtime on Saturday night or Sunday?
Were any requests for volunteers on the basis of 'we can't actually tell you why'?
More importantly, at what time on Thursday or Friday were they asked to volunteer?
All valid I guess but the problem is, who knows that other people are wanting answers to these type of questions? e.g. I was asked and worked as I needed the dollars but now I'm even more annoyed with my management, but who knows that I'm really pi55ed? my husband / wife / kids and a few of the others I worked with, that's all.
Do I also know that the CEO is to appear at a Senate enquiry on Friday? How would I know that, I'm more interested and concerned in what to make for dinner tonight / ensuring the kids do their homework / the latest reality TV show etc.
There you go Senator Xenophon, a very good question to ask Messr Joyce. But may I suggest you not just accept a verbal answer, but may I ask you request evidence? Such as in the lead up to the lockout, how many rooms/accomodation/transport/tickets on other airlines etc etc in line with their big 'contingency plan' was/were booked. Then compare that to the so-called other weekends in which the 'contingency plan' was being put in place, possibly.
Were any employees asked to work overtime on Saturday night or Sunday?
Were any requests for volunteers on the basis of 'we can't actually tell you why'?
More importantly, at what time on Thursday or Friday were they asked to volunteer?
All valid I guess but the problem is, who knows that other people are wanting answers to these type of questions? e.g. I was asked and worked as I needed the dollars but now I'm even more annoyed with my management, but who knows that I'm really pi55ed? my husband / wife / kids and a few of the others I worked with, that's all.
Do I also know that the CEO is to appear at a Senate enquiry on Friday? How would I know that, I'm more interested and concerned in what to make for dinner tonight / ensuring the kids do their homework / the latest reality TV show etc.
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What hypocritical business leaders we have!
John Singleton asking for more Australian Race horses to be in the Melbourne Cup.
Don't you realise John this is a Global race?
Him and the rest of his Crony mates should re-evaluate and start thinking that is just not all about them.
Keep Australian Companies Australian, owned by Australians and run by Australians.
Where is my bumper sticker??
John Singleton asking for more Australian Race horses to be in the Melbourne Cup.
Don't you realise John this is a Global race?
Him and the rest of his Crony mates should re-evaluate and start thinking that is just not all about them.
Keep Australian Companies Australian, owned by Australians and run by Australians.
Where is my bumper sticker??
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As regards the role of unions in this issue - I think that the unions involved in the Q disputes/actions have only themselves to blame for not having support from the general public.
Many perceive the union leaders as more concerned about themselves and their own welfare (and future life in politics), rather than having a genuine concern for the members; and for this you can blame people like MP Craig Williamson (paid for luxury trips, prostitutes, etc on his union credit cards), recently resigned 'rorter' Michael Williamson, who also resigned from senior positions in the labor party (Mr Williamson has resigned as ALP national vice-president and senior vice-president of the NSW ALP branch, the ALP said in a statement), and MP's who were once union leaders but are now continuing to feather their own nests in parliament (list too long to mention). Not to mention previous examples of union bullying and tactics already mentioned in this thread.
If the Q unions had stood up and disassociated themselves from what is perceived by many in the public as "union leaders self-interest", then the Q unions, and their members (and the claims) would be better received by the general public.
Many perceive the union leaders as more concerned about themselves and their own welfare (and future life in politics), rather than having a genuine concern for the members; and for this you can blame people like MP Craig Williamson (paid for luxury trips, prostitutes, etc on his union credit cards), recently resigned 'rorter' Michael Williamson, who also resigned from senior positions in the labor party (Mr Williamson has resigned as ALP national vice-president and senior vice-president of the NSW ALP branch, the ALP said in a statement), and MP's who were once union leaders but are now continuing to feather their own nests in parliament (list too long to mention). Not to mention previous examples of union bullying and tactics already mentioned in this thread.
If the Q unions had stood up and disassociated themselves from what is perceived by many in the public as "union leaders self-interest", then the Q unions, and their members (and the claims) would be better received by the general public.
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My breakfast dose of Plane Talking was not good eating this morning.
Qantas Senate Inquiry set to grill airline, but let it die | Plane Talking
Sandilands points out that in the submissions to the Senate inquiry tomorrow Qantas has contemptuously submitted what I see on the submission received link is just four pages of babble signed by Olivia Wirth.
That should infuriate the committee right up.
But he also points out that the Qantas (Still Call Australia Home) bill is totally hopeless and will go down in flames.
Qantas Senate Inquiry set to grill airline, but let it die | Plane Talking
Sandilands points out that in the submissions to the Senate inquiry tomorrow Qantas has contemptuously submitted what I see on the submission received link is just four pages of babble signed by Olivia Wirth.
That should infuriate the committee right up.
But he also points out that the Qantas (Still Call Australia Home) bill is totally hopeless and will go down in flames.
I think that the ultimate source of the damage to Qantas has not yet dawned on you - It's lack of trust, and without trust, Qantas as a going concern is dead in the water.
1. Alan Joyce was quite prepared to massively inconvenience tens of thousands of travelers for corporate gain. The action appears to be premeditated as well. This is a breach of trust.
2. Alan Joyce, through his negotiating team was supposed to have been bargaining in good faith with the Unions concerned. I have no doubt that the Engineers and Pilots teams were operating in good faith since I have heard nothing from Qantas to suggest they were not.
In the case of the engineers, negotiations began in October 2010. My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that Qantas made no substantive offers at all and still had not made any offer, right up to the point of grounding.
The sequence: stonewall for twelve months, PIA begins and is almost immediately followed by grounding and an appeal to FWA doesn't look like good faith to me.
It's simple really; no one in Qantas management can now be trusted. That will sink the company.
1. Alan Joyce was quite prepared to massively inconvenience tens of thousands of travelers for corporate gain. The action appears to be premeditated as well. This is a breach of trust.
2. Alan Joyce, through his negotiating team was supposed to have been bargaining in good faith with the Unions concerned. I have no doubt that the Engineers and Pilots teams were operating in good faith since I have heard nothing from Qantas to suggest they were not.
In the case of the engineers, negotiations began in October 2010. My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that Qantas made no substantive offers at all and still had not made any offer, right up to the point of grounding.
The sequence: stonewall for twelve months, PIA begins and is almost immediately followed by grounding and an appeal to FWA doesn't look like good faith to me.
It's simple really; no one in Qantas management can now be trusted. That will sink the company.
That will sink the company.
Nunc est bibendum
Sunfish. Perfect snapshot of what the issues are and have been for the last 12-14 months of negotiation.
You may also find of interest is that according to AIPA, when they sat down with Qantas on Tuesday to take up from where they left off negotiations on Friday- the day before Joyce grounded the airline- the Qantas reps politely declined to negotiate on the basis that they needed to seek 'direction from the board'.
Everything changes and nothing changes.
You may also find of interest is that according to AIPA, when they sat down with Qantas on Tuesday to take up from where they left off negotiations on Friday- the day before Joyce grounded the airline- the Qantas reps politely declined to negotiate on the basis that they needed to seek 'direction from the board'.
Everything changes and nothing changes.
But he also points out that the Qantas (Still Call Australia Home) bill is totally hopeless and will go down in flames.
The game is either you give us QF on a platter or we will destroy it.
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Sunfish. Perfect snapshot of what the issues are and have been for the last 12-14 months of negotiation.
You may also find of interest is that according to AIPA, when they sat down with Qantas on Tuesday to take up from where they left off negotiations on Friday- the day before Joyce grounded the airline- the Qantas reps politely declined to negotiate on the basis that they needed to seek 'direction from the board'.
Everything changes and nothing changes.
You may also find of interest is that according to AIPA, when they sat down with Qantas on Tuesday to take up from where they left off negotiations on Friday- the day before Joyce grounded the airline- the Qantas reps politely declined to negotiate on the basis that they needed to seek 'direction from the board'.
Everything changes and nothing changes.
Isn't that what the board ultimately want.
The game is either you give us QF on a platter or we will destroy it.
The game is either you give us QF on a platter or we will destroy it.
It is evident that this dozen on the board believe that QF is theirs and no one will stop them. I think they have grossly undrestimated the will of the employees, the unions, the general public and government.
It's OK everyone as AJ is now one of the Irish aviation executives along side Willie Walsh, Dermot Mannion, Michael O'Leary and Conor McCarthy who
represent a powerful grouping of airline managers who are having a profound impact on the shape and direction of world aviation.
Read more: The rise of the cost-cutters
Here are some additional links to these guys:
Possibly explains the origins of jokes like this:
A Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walk into a pub. They each buy a pint of Guinness beer.
Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage three flies landed in each of their pints, and were stuck in the froth of each glass.
The Englishman pushed his beer away from him in disgust.
The Scotsman fished the offending fly out of his beer and continued drinking it as if nothing had happened.
The Irishman too, picked the fly out of his drink, held it out over the beer and then started yelling, "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YA BASTARD!!"
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More stories from lockout day...
Jetstar employees stranded in la given full fare tickets on us carriers to get home. Jetstar only of course.
Hotel in LA was booked a month prior with rooms for passengers.
Feeling more engaged by the day
Jetstar employees stranded in la given full fare tickets on us carriers to get home. Jetstar only of course.
Hotel in LA was booked a month prior with rooms for passengers.
Feeling more engaged by the day