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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 18th Nov 2011, 00:31
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The average Australian wage is now over $68K
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Old 18th Nov 2011, 00:55
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Originally Posted by brodle

If my wage was denominated in gold or 'X' number of loaves of bread then I would get the same every year. As I am paid in a depreciating fiat currency I need my wage to increase (or decrease if deflation be the case) to continue to receive the same wage in gold or 'X' number of loaves of bread. If this is not the case I am taking a wage cut every year.

To turn the argument around (to where I perceive your interests to lay) would be to say that a company should not be allowed to increase the price of its product unless it can show an improvement in the quality or utility of the product.

Just because something is 'just the way it is' does not make it ethically (a foreign term for many large businesses today) right.
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
To keep pace with inflation, one needs CPI+the tax take.
Bravo brodle & Bloggs - you get it. Inflation is a HIDDEN TAX, levied in an arbitrary and indiscriminate way. It is what governments have always done when the wage slaves refuse to pay more tax. This is the dirty little secret, that until recently had been understood by a small group in the know, at the expense of everyone else.

Two quotes demonstrate this better than I can:
Originally Posted by John Maynard Keynes

Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.

Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become 'profiteers,' who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.

Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.
The Economic Consequences of the Peace (1919), Chapter VI, pg.235-236
Originally Posted by Henry C Wallich, 1978
Wallich explained that inflation "is technically an economic problem. I mean the breakdown of our standards of measuring economic values, as a consequence of inflation." The strong are smart enough to understand that inflation "introduces an element of deceit into our economic dealings." Contracts are no longer made to "be kept in terms of constant values," but one party understands this better than the other.
Chairman Greenspan: A Fiat Mind for a Fiat Age: Henry C Wallice Federal Reserve Board member, 1970's
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Old 18th Nov 2011, 01:00
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The below is an interesting interview:

Let's just say hypothetically if this was to be true, what would the effect be on Little Alan's grand plan's?
I think Sunfish and Burrito know the answer already.

I also noted a brief reference by Cactusjack on another thread, something about Warren Buffet. Buffet is a really interesting character, very astute and a little off the cuff. I once read a comment by him that went something along the lines of 'every year or two I get bored, look at buying airline shares, and then wait for my advisers to wake me up and remind me what a waste of an investment they are'.
End game with QF's foray into China? Who know's for sure, but all the signals are there that this is not going to end well.

Burrito, good reference to JMK, he was well ahead of his time.
Inflation is a hidden tax, a sneaky one that is insidious and sneaks up on you with you realising it. Inflation also drives things like produce costs, so for example, have you ever said something like -
'I used to spend $250.00 per week on shopping, now I am spending $300.00 per week and the trolley still isn't full'. That in part is the sneakiness of inflation. The big problem with Governments is that they try to print more money to offset debt. But each time the printing press fires up, the addititional paper devalues the dollar value plus it inflates the economy. Printing is a temporary solution, it buys a little bit of time, but the end result is inevitable, and that result is what you are seeing now in the USA, Greece and Italy. It catches you in the end.

Last edited by gobbledock; 18th Nov 2011 at 01:12.
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Old 18th Nov 2011, 01:58
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Good link GD. I wonder if Alan & Bruce have been sitting up nights poring over Wikileaks cables. I'm sure they caught this one, but just in case they missed it.

Thursday, 15 March 2007, 10:24
EO 12958 DECL: 03/15/2032
Classified By: Ambassador Clark T. Randt, Jr. Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).

4. (C) GDP figures are "man-made" and therefore unreliable, Li said. When evaluating Liaoning's economy, he focuses on three figures: 1) electricity consumption, which was up 10 percent in Liaoning last year; 2) volume of rail cargo, which is fairly accurate because fees are charged for each unit of weight; and 3) amount of loans disbursed, which also tends to be accurate given the interest fees charged. By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially GDP statistics, are "for reference only," he said smiling.

US embassy cables: Rising star of Chinese communist party reveals personal crusade against corruption | World news | guardian.co.uk
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Old 18th Nov 2011, 02:51
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ACT, I understand your point and don't disagree that CPI increases are not a given.

However, unless the agenda is the 'real' reduction of western wages (which it most likely is) then logically (and I believe, morally) CPI wage increases should be a given.

If my wage was denominated in gold or 'X' number of loaves of bread then I would get the same every year. As I am paid in a depreciating fiat currency I need my wage to increase (or decrease if deflation be the case) to continue to receive the same wage in gold or 'X' number of loaves of bread. If this is not the case I am taking a wage cut every year.

To turn the argument around (to where I perceive your interests to lay) would be to say that a company should not be allowed to increase the price of its product unless it can show an improvement in the quality or utility of the product.

Just because something is 'just the way it is' does not make it ethically (a foreign term for many large businesses today) right.
Brodle - I agree with you about the economics of wage increases as you have outlined. However unless there is an intrinsic regulatory link between prices and wages, then employers are basically left to their own devices on what they "agree" to increase pay by. If there is no requirement to incorporate in enterprise bargaining, taxation levels, inflation/deflation rates, "cost of living" then the only obligation is to "obey the law" (ie don't pay less than the award). The notion of the enterprise is what stands foremost in the IR system around bargaining (the balanced fair system that governments have argued over the years is far from accurate).

The "real wages" debate of the past 20 years has been a real misnomer. Since the inception of enterprise level bargaining the notion of real wage increases has been used to demonstrate that employees have "benefited" from the shift from centralised to decentralised. But we know this is a very simplistic view as the concept of real wage increases incorporates far more than the 3% p.a that employer X might agree to pay - taxation, CPI levels.
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Old 18th Nov 2011, 03:15
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ACT Crusader, this assumes the CPI is correct and reflect actual price changes. A lot of work has been done in the US on this by John Williams of shadowstats.com. He "unwinds" changes to the CPI calculations and publishes them as the SGS (Shadow Government Statistics) Alternate measures. Whilst US centric, similar modifications are done by the ABS, so there is every reason to believe that our figures also understate inflation (and also overstate GDP growth, as the GDP is deflated by the CPI).

If Williams contention is correct in Australia, then, the effect of a bare CPI increase + bracket creep means that real wages have actually declined markedly over the last 20 years. It also implies that GDP growth ex-mining has probably negative for at least a decade. There is no reason doubt this process is occurs here too.

Here's the US chart of SGS vs CPI (CPI-U):

Here's his Primer on Government Stats

Consumer Price Index

October 1st, 2004


A Series Authored by Walter J. "John" Williams

"The Consumer Price Index" (Part Four in a Series of Five)

October 1, 2006 Update

(September 22, 2004 Original)



This installment has been updated from the original 2004 version to incorporate additional research on earlier changes to the CPI. The source for most of the information in this installment is the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which generally has been very open about its methodologies and changes to same. The BLS Web site: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics contains descriptions of the CPI and its related methodologies. Other sources include my own analyses of the CPI data and methodological changes over the last 30 years as well as interviews with individuals involved in inflation reporting.

Payments to Social Security Recipients Should be Double Current Levels

Inflation, as reported by the Consumer Price Index (CPI) is understated by roughly 7% per year. This is due to recent redefinitions of the series as well as to flawed methodologies, particularly adjustments to price measures for quality changes. The concentration of this installment on the quality of government economic reports will be first on CPI series redefinition and the damages done to those dependent on accurate cost-of-living estimates, and on pending further redefinition and economic damage.

The CPI was designed to help businesses, individuals and the government adjust their financial planning and considerations for the impact of inflation. The CPI worked reasonably well for those purposes into the early-1980s. In recent decades, however, the reporting system increasingly succumbed to pressures from miscreant politicians, who were and are intent upon stealing income from social security recipients, without ever taking the issue of reduced entitlement payments before the public or Congress for approval.

In particular, changes made in CPI methodology during the Clinton Administration understated inflation significantly, and, through a cumulative effect with earlier changes that began in the late-Carter and early Reagan Administrations have reduced current social security payments by roughly half from where they would have been otherwise. That means Social Security checks today would be about double had the various changes not been made. In like manner, anyone involved in commerce, who relies on receiving payments adjusted for the CPI, has been similarly damaged. On the other side, if you are making payments based on the CPI (i.e., the federal government), you are making out like a bandit.

In the original version of this background article, I noted that Social Security payments should 43% higher, but that was back in September 2004 and only adjusted for CPI changes that took place after 1993. The current estimate adjusts for methodology gimmicks introduced since 1980.

Elements of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) had their roots in the mid-1880s, when the Bureau of Labor, later known as the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), was asked by Congress to measure the impact of new tariffs on prices. It was another three decades, however, before price indices would be combined into something resembling today's CPI, a measure used then for setting wage increases for World War I shipbuilders. Although published regularly since 1921, the CPI did not come into broad acceptance and use until after World War II, when it was included in auto union contracts as a cost-of-living adjustment for wages.

The CPI found its way not only into other union agreements, but also into most commercial contracts that required consideration of cost/price changes or inflation. The CPI also was used to adjust Social Security payments annually for changes in the cost of living, and therein lay the eventual downfall to the credibility of CPI reporting.

Let Them Eat Hamburger

In the early 1990s, press reports began surfacing as to how the CPI really was significantly overstating inflation. If only the CPI inflation rate could be reduced, it was argued, then entitlements, such as social security, would not increase as much each year, and that would help to bring the budget deficit under control. Behind this movement were financial luminaries Michael Boskin, then chief economist to the first Bush Administration, and Alan Greenspan, Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

Although the ensuing political furor killed consideration of Congressionally mandated changes in the CPI, the BLS quietly stepped forward and began changing the system, anyway, early in the Clinton Administration.

Up until the Boskin/Greenspan agendum surfaced, the CPI was measured using the costs of a fixed basket of goods, a fairly simple and straightforward concept. The identical basket of goods would be priced at prevailing market costs for each period, and the period-to-period change in the cost of that market basket represented the rate of inflation in terms of maintaining a constant standard of living.

The Boskin/Greenspan argument was that when steak got too expensive, the consumer would substitute hamburger for the steak, and that the inflation measure should reflect the costs tied to buying hamburger versus steak, instead of steak versus steak. Of course, replacing hamburger for steak in the calculations would reduce the inflation rate, but it represented the rate of inflation in terms of maintaining a declining standard of living. Cost of living was being replaced by the cost of survival. The old system told you how much you had to increase your income in order to keep buying steak. The new system promised you hamburger, and then dog food, perhaps, after that.

The Boskin/Greenspan concept violated the intent and common usage of the inflation index. The CPI was considered sacrosanct within the Department of Labor, given the number of contractual relationships that were anchored to it. The CPI was one number that never was to be revised, given its widespread usage.

Shortly after Clinton took control of the White House, however, attitudes changed. The BLS initially did not institute a new CPI measurement using a variable-basket of goods that allowed substitution of hamburger for steak, but rather tried to approximate the effect by changing the weighting of goods in the CPI fixed basket. Over a period of several years, straight arithmetic weighting of the CPI components was shifted to a geometric weighting. The Boskin/Greenspan benefit of a geometric weighting was that it automatically gave a lower weighting to CPI components that were rising in price, and a higher weighting to those items dropping in price.

Once the system had been shifted fully to geometric weighting, the net effect was to reduce reported CPI on an annual, or year-over-year basis, by 2.7% from what it would have been based on the traditional weighting methodology. The results have been dramatic. The compounding effect since the early-1990s has reduced annual cost of living adjustments in social security by more than a third.

The BLS publishes estimates of the effects of major methodological changes over time on the reported inflation rate (see the "Reporting Focus" section of the October 2005 Shadow Government Statistics newsletter -- available to the public in the Archives of Shadow Government Statistics : Home Page). Changes estimated by the BLS show roughly a 4% understatement in current annual CPI inflation versus what would have been reported using the original methodology. Adding the roughly 3% lost to geometric weighting -- most of which not included in the BLS estimates -- takes the current total CPI understatement to roughly 7%.

There now are three major CPI measures published by the BLS, CPI for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U), CPI for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W) and the Chained CPI-U (C-CPI-U). The CPI-U is the popularly followed inflation measure reported in the financial media. It was introduced in 1978 as a more-broadly-based version of the then existing CPI, which was renamed CPI-W. The CPI-W is used in calculating Social Security benefits. These two series tend to move together and are based on frequent price sampling, which is supposed to yield something close to an average monthly price measure by component.

The C-CPI-U was introduced during the second Bush Administration as an alternate CPI measure. Unlike the theoretical approximation of geometric weighting to a variable, substitution-prone market basket, the C-CPI-U is a direct measure of the substitution effect. The difference in reporting is that August 2006 year-to-year inflation rates for the CPI-U and the C-CPI-U were 3.8% and 3.4%, respectively. Hence current inflation still has a 0.4% notch to be taken out of it through methodological manipulation. The C-CPI-U would not have been introduced unless there were plans to replace the current series, eventually.

Traditional inflation rates can be estimated by adding 7.0% to the CPI-U annual growth rate (3.8% +7.0% = 10.8% as of August 2006) or by adding 7.4% to the C-CPI-U rate (3.4% + 7.4% = 10.8% as of August 2006). Graphs of alternate CPI measures can be found as follows. The CPI adjusted solely for the impact of the shift to geometric weighting is shown in the graph on the home page of Shadow Government Statistics : Home Page. The CPI adjusted for both the geometric weighting and earlier methodological changes is shown on the Alternate Data page, which is available as a tab at the top of the home page.

Hedonic Thrills of Using Federally Mandated Gasoline Additives

Aside from the changed weighting, the average person also tends to sense higher inflation than is reported by the BLS, because of hedonics, as in hedonism. Hedonics adjusts the prices of goods for the increased pleasure the consumer derives from them. That new washing machine you bought did not cost you 20% more than it would have cost you last year, because you got an offsetting 20% increase in the pleasure you derive from pushing its new electronic control buttons instead of turning that old noisy dial, according to the BLS.

When gasoline rises 10 cents per gallon because of a federally mandated gasoline additive, the increased gasoline cost does not contribute to inflation. Instead, the 10 cents is eliminated from the CPI because of the offsetting hedonic thrills the consumer gets from breathing cleaner air. The same principle applies to federally mandated safety features in automobiles. I have not attempted to quantify the effects of questionable quality adjustments to the CPI, but they are substantial.

Then there is "intervention analysis" in the seasonal adjustment process, when a commodity, like gasoline, goes through violent price swings. Intervention analysis is done to tone down the volatility. As a result, somehow, rising gasoline prices never seem to get fully reflected in the CPI, but the declining prices sure do.

How Can So Many Financial Pundits Live Without Consuming Food and Energy?

The Pollyannas on Wall Street like to play games with the CPI, too. The concept of looking at the "core" rate of inflation-net of food and energy-was developed as a way of removing short-term (as in a month or two) volatility from inflation when energy and/or food prices turned volatile. Since food and energy account for about 23% of consumer spending (as weighted in the CPI), however, related inflation cannot be ignored for long. Nonetheless, it is common to hear financial pundits cite annual "core" inflation as a way of showing how contained inflation is. Such comments are moronic and such commentators are due the appropriate respect.

Too-Low Inflation Reporting Yields Too-High GDP Growth

As is discussed in the final installment on GDP, part of the problem with GDP reporting is the way inflation is handled. Although the CPI is not used in the GDP calculation, there are relationships with the price deflators used in converting GDP data and growth to inflation-adjusted numbers. The more inflation is understated, the higher the inflation-adjusted rate
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Old 18th Nov 2011, 14:38
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Interesting development

Shareholders target Joyce over Qantas action

THE Qantas chief, Alan Joyce, may have to appear before an extraordinary shareholders meeting to explain why he did not inform them of his intention to ground the airline.

All Qantas aircraft were grounded on October 29, just 24 hours after Mr Joyce addressed the company's annual meeting and received resounding shareholder support for an upgraded pay package. He did not indicate to shareholders at that meeting that the company was preparing to ground the airline the following day, as a precursor to a staff lock-out in response to industrial action by licensed engineers, long-haul pilots and ground crew.

The national secretary of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union, Michael O'Connor, who is also a Qantas shareholder, said yesterday the union would exercise its options under the Corporations Act and call for an extraordinary general meeting to hold Mr Joyce accountable for his actions. Under the act, the signatures of 100 shareholders with voting rights can call for a meeting and the company must oblige.

The union has lodged a formal request with Qantas to hand over its share register, with the names, addresses and holdings of the company's top 5000 registered shareholders.

"The CFMEU is not satisfied with some of the recent actions and comments of Qantas management,'' Mr O'Connor said yesterday.
"We will be consulting with other shareholders as to the merits of calling for a general meeting to ask the company to give shareholders the benefit of an explanation of their recent activities, and why no mention of their intention to ground the airline was made to the annual general meeting … ''
The three-day grounding left tens of thousands of passengers stranded throughout the world.

Following an order by the national workplace tribunal Fair Work Australia on October 31 to halt all further industrial action by either side, Qantas and the three unions involved in the ongoing dispute (which does not include the CFMEU) have until Monday to settle their differences.

The government's workplace umpire's Fair Work Australia will move to arbitrate a binding agreement and will rule on all outstanding matters if, as expected, Qantas and the unions fail to reach an agreement.

It is understood at least two of the unions, the Transport Workers Union and the Australian and International Pilots Association, which launched an appeal challenging the termination ruling - have reached a stalemate with Qantas executives and are now willing to ''roll the dice'' in a Fair Work determination.
A government source told the Herald there was ''little tolerance left in the ranks'' over the protracted industrial stoush.

The source said ''all sides have had clear and simple instructions of the process throughout the negotiation period. It is time to make it work.''
Mr Joyce said negotiations with the unions were continuing but could not provide details whether a satisfactory enterprise bargaining agreement would be reached, as the Fair Work Australia process was ''confidential. ''

The TWU's national secretary, Tony Sheldon, said the union was ''committed to making conciliation work … as long as Qantas did not continue to persue a belligerent stance towards the job security of employees who have kept Qantas profitable for over 20 years.'

Read more: Shareholders target Joyce over Qantas action
Not sure it will come to much.... but would be interesting if a meeting does take place..
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Old 19th Nov 2011, 09:25
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Ben also has a take on the CFMEU calling for an Extraordinary General Meeting:Qantas may face a 2nd shareholder meetimg over Asia plans | Plane Talking Maybe they're finally turning up the screws on Joyce with a please explain!
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Old 19th Nov 2011, 09:50
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Grow a brain. Or have SP take over! He is the answser for sure
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 10:16
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Back to page 65 and routes, etc.

Hong Kong Airlines would like to say thankyou QANTAS

Hong Kong Airlines has announced that it will launch an all Club Class service, flying daily non-stop between London and Hong Kong from 08 March, 2012.

The new flights will be operated with a dedicated fleet of three brand new Airbus A330-200s, featuring a unique all Club Class seating configuration of just 116 seats. Each of these ultra-modern aircraft will showcase two premium cabins: ‘Club Premier’ and ‘Club Classic’, both of which have been created to deliver the airline’s exceptional signature service.

Club Premier will include 34 luxurious suites with fully flat 6’1” beds configured 1-2-1 in the two forward cabins; a fine dining service with individual table settings, superior wines and champagne; turndown service with duvets, pyjamas and slippers and luxury amenity kits.
Club Classic will feature 82 cradle seats configured 2-2-2 over two cabins with a spacious 51” seat pitch with 22” width and superior dining. All cabins come complete with WIFI, AVOD, digital magazines and high definition 16:9 ratio widescreens; 15.4” in Club Premier and 10.4” in Club Classic.

Flight HX 875 will depart Hong Kong at 11.50pm, arriving at London Gatwick Airport the following day at 5.55am.

The return service, flight HX 876, will depart from London Gatwick, North Terminal, at 9.30pm, arriving in Hong Kong at 6.05pm the following day.
Hong Kong Airlines to Launch All Club Class Daily Service from London - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com

Air France would also like to say thanks QANTAS

Singapore now served new flights by B777-200ER
Features new Business Class seat and innovations in all cabins

Starting on 28 May 2012, Air France will be operating three additional round-trip flights between Paris and Singapore, giving travellers more options and flexibility.

The three new flights by Boeing 777-200ER are in addition to the daily round-trip flights currently operated by Air France between Paris and Singapore and will increase flight frequency to ten times a week.
The Boeing 777-200ER seats 309 passengers in a 4-cabin configuration:
· First - 4 seats
· Business - 48 seats
· Premium Voyageur – 24 seats
· Voyageur - 170 seats
Air France launches additional flights on Singapore route - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 12:10
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Qantas booked lockout notices before grounding fleet: couriers - Business (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Qantas booked lockout notices before grounding fleet: couriers
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 12:10
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The Boeing 777-200ER seats 309 passengers in a 4-cabin configuration:
· First - 4 seats
· Business - 48 seats
· Premium Voyageur – 24 seats
· Voyageur - 170 seats
No matter which language you add up those four numbers in, you don't get 309.
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 12:26
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Proof is beginning to emerge that AJ has perjured himself in the senate hearing. Documents both internal and external to Qantas, written prior to the 29th Oct are starting to surface. These are in addition to BB's letter that he claims was a typo.

Credibility is starting to erode and it could take a few big names with it!
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 13:09
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Proof is beginning to emerge that AJ has perjured himself in the senate hearing. Documents both internal and external to Qantas, written prior to the 29th Oct are starting to surface. These are in addition to BB's letter that he claims was a typo.

Credibility is starting to erode and it could take a few big names with it!
I wouldn't be getting too excited about this. These maggots have a way of getting out of a perceived bind they appear to be in. As for taking a few big names with it. The only name that may go will be AJ. That's why he was given his 71% pay increase. He takes the fall, because it was "solely his idea", but he had the backing of the board.

For it to go further than a hearing, there has to be more evidence submitted, and a recommendation to go to an enquiry and investigate the goings on in Coward St, Mascot. By the time that happens, AJ would have handed back his citizenship and headed back to Oireland with his $5million and the others involved would appear to be innocent bystanders caught up in the madness of AJ.
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 13:24
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Thumbs down

It wouldn't surprise me that Joyce et al had couriers and hotel rooms booked for the preceding couple of weeks also. I reckon they were just waiting for the best time.

Either way though, if it was pre-planned it's a massive act of bastardry with multiple layers of duplicity, misinformation, subtefuge, etc; and if AJ made the decision 'solely' on the Saturday morning then it shows a fundamentally dysfunctional and highly dangerouse decision making process at play. Chose your poison.
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 13:57
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I think I have heard tis plan before....................
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Old 21st Nov 2011, 14:28
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All Victorian Nurses Found To Be Male

Breaking news .......

It has been revealed that every single nurse in Victoria is male.

It was previously thought (assumed) that nursing was primarily a "female" profession, but in a surprising twist it has been revealed that every nurse in Victoria actually has b@lls ..................

Nurses remain defiant over work bans - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Nurses remain defiant over work bans

" Victorian nurses are engaging in brinkmanship with the State Government and industrial umpire Fair Work Australia after voting on Monday afternoon to continue their legally unprotected industrial action.

Last week Fair Work ordered the Australian Nursing Federation (ANF) to cease work bans.

Monday afternoon's vote to continue the action means nurses now face potential penalties and the union may face legal action in the Federal Court.

" Victorian branch secretary Lisa Fitzpatrick......"Legal action or the threat of legal action will not fix this dispute. It will not assist in reaching a negotiated outcome and it is not the way to progress," she said.

The media was then ejected so members could speak freely. It was invited back in more than an hour later for the final vote which was unanimously in support of work bans. "

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Old 21st Nov 2011, 19:29
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Qantas Grounding - Shown To Be Premeditated?

The ABS program "Lateline" appears to be suggesting that Alan Joyce has been economical with the truth regarding the Qantas grounding, and that it was not a spur of the moment decision, but was in fact premeditated as a deliberate industrial tactic.

Lateline believes they have witnesses, in the form of Two couriers, who can confirm they were booked in advance of the alleged decision date.

Alan Joyce's defence that there were "Contingency plans" fails if the couriers statements - that they were booked to work Sunday on Thursday or Friday, are true. One does not book someone to carry out work on a specific day as a "contingency", that is a logical nonsense. The decision had to have been taken in principle by the time those bookings were made with cancellation of the decision to ground on Saturday morning being a possibility.

To put that another way; Joyces argument that he made "the decision" on Saturday is akin to a pilot on short final deciding to go around or not - the intention to land was already determined.

If this is the case, then it appears that "Good Faith" and Qantas are strangers.

On a macro level, I refuse to believe that the Qantas Board was not told in advance of the apparently planned decision to ground the airline and disrupt the travel plans of Tens of Thousands of Australians, because I don't think any CEO would dare to do something that potentially compromises brand (and shareholder) value so severely without permission.

I think the Board and Joyce will have to go since I fail to understand why anyone would trust their utterances ever again. Maybe they could work for Rupert Murdoch.

Two couriers have told ABC's Lateline program that Qantas booked drivers to deliver lockout notices in the days leading up to the airline's announcement it was grounding its fleet.

When Qantas first took industrial action just over three weeks ago, CEO Alan Joyce said he had made the decision to ground the airline on the Saturday morning after the Qantas AGM.

Passengers were left stranded, holidays were ruined and Qantas customers and employees were united in their anger.

Lateline has spoken to couriers and Qantas workers who have raised doubts about the timeline laid out by Mr Joyce at the Senate hearing.

Two employees of Direct Couriers have told Lateline they were asked to work on Sunday, October 30, as part of a mass delivery of this lockout notice to at least 6,000 Qantas staff.

The couriers, who spoke to Lateline on the condition their names were not used, said that drivers were booked for the job in the days before Mr Joyce says he made the decision to ground the airline.

"I was asked on Friday. We were told they had a one-off job on Sunday and we would start at 6:00am. We weren't told we might have a job, we were told we had a job," one courier said.

"On the Thursday I was asked if I wanted to work Sunday - an all-dayer. We were told we could work any area we liked and it was delivering letters," said the other.

Both couriers have confirmed the job was delivering lockout notices for Qantas.

Direct Couriers refused to comment, and Mr Joyce today denied the allegations that couriers were booked before October 29.

"We have been very clear on this and there's been lots on conspiracy theories," he said.

"The printers were booked on the day that we made the decision and no notices had been ordered in terms of printing and nobody had been informed of it because the decision wasn't made until the Saturday."

Labor Senator and former Transport Workers Union official Alex Gallacher, who is on the Senate Committee which has been questioning Mr Joyce, says the logistics of the exercise would have required pre-planning.

"Obviously to individually deliver to workers' homes on the weekend a notice of lockout, there needs to be some considerable pre-planning in respect to that," he said.

"I don't think there are enough couriers active on a Sunday, which is traditionally a slow day in transport ... available at the drop of the hat to suddenly activate such a comprehensive delivery schedule.

"[Mr Joyce] has a lot of questions to answer as there are about 24 unanswered questions on notice out of the hearing and a large number of unanswered questions arising from consideration of the transcript of the hearing."
Video: The dispute between Qantas and unions will go to forced arbitration after negotiations failed. (Lateline)

Managers flown out

Lateline has also obtained an internal memo sent to flight attendants at the time of the grounding of the fleet by the executive manager of the Qantas cabin crew.

It confirms that Qantas sent four senior cabin crew managers to Singapore and Los Angeles in the lead-up to the announcement of the lockout.

All four flew out on the Friday on the day of the Qantas AGM. According to the memo, their role was to provide information to cabin crew about the grounding of the fleet.

When asked why the managers were flown to Los Angeles and Singapore on the Friday, Mr Joyce responded "You could also say 'why did we send our entire PR department to Melbourne on the day of the announcement and had to fly them back on Virgin?"

"There was no decision made till the Saturday. We had contingency plans that were being prepared before the Saturday. But no decision had been made till the Saturday."

Qantas issued a statement to Lateline saying managers were flown out due to an anticipated increase in industrial action around the time of the AGM.

"The unions had indicated that they were planning on ramping up industrial action around our Annual General Meeting and as such four members of cabin crew management were sent to Singapore and Los Angeles," a spokesman for Qantas said.

But the unions dispute that they were planning to ramp up industrial action. The engineers union had called a three week halt to industrial action just the week before.

The Senate inquiry into the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill reopens on Thursday.

Topics: air-transport, industry, business-economics-and-finance, industrial-relations, unions, australia

First posted November 21, 2011 22:52:56

Qantas booked lockout notices before grounding fleet: couriers - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Last edited by Sunfish; 21st Nov 2011 at 19:45.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2011, 19:51
  #1339 (permalink)  
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I don't think Lateline was suggesting anything. It was exposing untruths.
As a shareholder I think Joyce is turning into a liar-bility.
So does one of my favorite reads.

Qantas CEO faces renewed credibility crisis over shut-down | Plane Talking
denabol is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2011, 20:03
  #1340 (permalink)  
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If, as Sandilands alleges, Joyce is shown to be a liar then the damage to Qantas is complete for one very simple reason:

Every employee of Qantas now has permission to lie to anyone - customer, regulator or fellow employee - Joyce allegedly gives it to them.

You cannot operate to your AOC if you are not a "Fit and proper person' and there are multiple precedents of CASA requiring the removal of Directors and managers from any association with the running of an airline, on penalty of cancellation of the AOC.
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