MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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Good point, where were all the pax?
Oh I forgot, we are talking about 'Qantas Club 2011', all the ferals must have been out buying thongs, or perhaps QF management had been inside the lounge earlier and the stench of ****e drove everyone away?
Maybe nobody was interested in the stale Sao's, a handful of soggy lettuce and coffee beans that taste like they have been brewed in the honey cart disposal facility adjacent to the terminal? Or maybe it was the food tongs that looked as though they had just been driven up somebody's ass, or was it the daily newspapers soiled in food condiments, the screaming rugrats that have been spawned by ferals and bogans, or is the now legendary ****e QF service, ****e planes, ****e continuous delays and general disgust of QF managements disdain and attitude towards staff, the public and businesses that has contributed to everyone deserting QF and now playing in Borghetti's lounge?
Oh I forgot, we are talking about 'Qantas Club 2011', all the ferals must have been out buying thongs, or perhaps QF management had been inside the lounge earlier and the stench of ****e drove everyone away?
Maybe nobody was interested in the stale Sao's, a handful of soggy lettuce and coffee beans that taste like they have been brewed in the honey cart disposal facility adjacent to the terminal? Or maybe it was the food tongs that looked as though they had just been driven up somebody's ass, or was it the daily newspapers soiled in food condiments, the screaming rugrats that have been spawned by ferals and bogans, or is the now legendary ****e QF service, ****e planes, ****e continuous delays and general disgust of QF managements disdain and attitude towards staff, the public and businesses that has contributed to everyone deserting QF and now playing in Borghetti's lounge?
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Mate for your own sanity, I think you should leave QF.
Ahhhh! QANTAS. It's a love-hate relationship. Management love to hate the employees, and the employees hate to love the management. One big happy family.
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Originally Posted by Baxter Dewall
Mate for your own sanity, I think you should leave QF.
Don't worry though. Alan will pluck replacements from the Longhaul Qantas Captain/First Officer replacement tree which is currently blossoming in its springtime growth phase behind the Qantas management building.
Alan Joyce: "You pr*cks TOLD ME there was a tree there!!!"
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There has certainly been enough fertiliser...of course you also need seeds or small plants, plus a suitably supportive environment to cultivate them and effective weed control. That usually costs money, unless you're hoping that the seeds/plants will fall from the sky into your fertiliser filled paddock and the weeds decide to go somewhere else. Strangely enough, that doesn't usually happen. 
"Weeds that are declared noxious are those weeds that have potential to cause harm to the community and individuals, can be controlled by reasonable means and most importantly, have the potential to spread within an area and to other areas. A weed is declared noxious because its control will provide a benefit to the community over and above the cost of implementing control programs." Weed definitions & FAQs | NSW Department of Primary Industries
Doesn't sound like any company board I know of...
No doubt Qantas hope that Pilatus Desperadum and LAME Aspirare seeds keep magically falling from the skies...even if there are no suitable soils for them to fall on, and a serious lack of irrigation and weed control.
Don't worry, we'll just import them, if we spray them with enough urea, they'll grow...
"Weeds that are declared noxious are those weeds that have potential to cause harm to the community and individuals, can be controlled by reasonable means and most importantly, have the potential to spread within an area and to other areas. A weed is declared noxious because its control will provide a benefit to the community over and above the cost of implementing control programs." Weed definitions & FAQs | NSW Department of Primary Industries
Doesn't sound like any company board I know of...
No doubt Qantas hope that Pilatus Desperadum and LAME Aspirare seeds keep magically falling from the skies...even if there are no suitable soils for them to fall on, and a serious lack of irrigation and weed control.
Don't worry, we'll just import them, if we spray them with enough urea, they'll grow...
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 8th Nov 2011 at 13:04.
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Sad to say,but regardless of the usual clap-trap on here-I think the unions have lost.
Barely a by-line in any major newspaper yesterday,the only reference in the press this morning was a segway into changing industrial relations laws. Let's face it-'Australias Next Top Model' and 'Celebrity Apprentice' are getting more press than Qantas and it's unions this week
The crisis has ended,the press and therefore the public have moved on.
Face it,the public forget very easily,the government WANTS/NEEDS to move on from it.
It will all end in arbitration,they will rule on the side of the management.
And never again will any union be able to take industrial action at QF,they will just be locked out.The government has allowed it this time,they have set a precedent.
AJ wasn't just playing his cards for the 3 unions involved-he was telling the whole company what he will do to ANY union in the future.
Game, set and match
Barely a by-line in any major newspaper yesterday,the only reference in the press this morning was a segway into changing industrial relations laws. Let's face it-'Australias Next Top Model' and 'Celebrity Apprentice' are getting more press than Qantas and it's unions this week
The crisis has ended,the press and therefore the public have moved on.
Face it,the public forget very easily,the government WANTS/NEEDS to move on from it.
It will all end in arbitration,they will rule on the side of the management.
And never again will any union be able to take industrial action at QF,they will just be locked out.The government has allowed it this time,they have set a precedent.
AJ wasn't just playing his cards for the 3 unions involved-he was telling the whole company what he will do to ANY union in the future.
Game, set and match
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Cart Elev.
You are wrong its not forgotten by the public.
I for one am being deluged by email on the subject by persons not remotely connected to aviation.
Have you looked at the letters page of the papers? Financial Revue and SMH has letters on the subject every day and I assume that they are only printing a few of what they receive.
Wunwing
You are wrong its not forgotten by the public.
I for one am being deluged by email on the subject by persons not remotely connected to aviation.
Have you looked at the letters page of the papers? Financial Revue and SMH has letters on the subject every day and I assume that they are only printing a few of what they receive.
Wunwing
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THE same politicians who unleashed scathing attacks on Qantas for bringing an abrupt end to damaging industrial action have accepted thousands of dollars in flight upgrades and gifts from the airline.
A check of the pecuniary interests register shows about 50 per cent of MPs and Senators from all political parties received perks from the airline over the past two years, including wine, tickets to the AFL, iPads and flight upgrades, the Courier-Mail reported.
Qantas also has a policy of inviting all federal politicians and their spouses to be members of the exclusive Chairman's Lounge.
It is understood Greens Senator Scott Ludlam used his privileges in the Chairman's Lounge on the same day he interrogated Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce at last Friday's Senate inquiry.
Some of those to receive iPads from Qantas include Transport Minister Anthony Albanese, Tourism Minister Peter Garrett, Labor MP Alan Griffin, Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop and Liberal MP and Qantas shareholder Barry Haase.
Ministers Martin Ferguson and Bill Shorten have been guests of Qantas at AFL grand finals, and veteran Queensland Liberal Ian MacFarlane declared the airline gave him 50,000 frequent flyer points.
Even Julia Gillard accepted flight upgrades from Qantas before she became Prime Minister and got her own jet. This week a motion to have Qantas's political critics give up lucrative perks from the airline was voted down by the Senate.
Emirates Airlines also provided flight upgrades and hospitality at events such as the Melbourne Cup for several politicians while Virgin Australia offered MPs access to their Velocity lounges and loyalty program.
Meanwhile, Qantas flight bookings have rebounded to pre-strike levels just over a week after the airline's dramatic global fleet grounding.
A huge exodus of passengers to other carriers, mostly Virgin Australia, was one of the reasons Mr Joyce grounded the fleet last month in an effort to bring a permanent halt to industrial action by three unions.
John Guscic from internet booking agency Webjet said the action appeared to have had the desired effect.
"The bookings going forward reflect a bounce back," Mr Guscic said.
A check of the pecuniary interests register shows about 50 per cent of MPs and Senators from all political parties received perks from the airline over the past two years, including wine, tickets to the AFL, iPads and flight upgrades, the Courier-Mail reported.
Qantas also has a policy of inviting all federal politicians and their spouses to be members of the exclusive Chairman's Lounge.
It is understood Greens Senator Scott Ludlam used his privileges in the Chairman's Lounge on the same day he interrogated Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce at last Friday's Senate inquiry.
Some of those to receive iPads from Qantas include Transport Minister Anthony Albanese, Tourism Minister Peter Garrett, Labor MP Alan Griffin, Deputy Opposition Leader Julie Bishop and Liberal MP and Qantas shareholder Barry Haase.
Ministers Martin Ferguson and Bill Shorten have been guests of Qantas at AFL grand finals, and veteran Queensland Liberal Ian MacFarlane declared the airline gave him 50,000 frequent flyer points.
Even Julia Gillard accepted flight upgrades from Qantas before she became Prime Minister and got her own jet. This week a motion to have Qantas's political critics give up lucrative perks from the airline was voted down by the Senate.
Emirates Airlines also provided flight upgrades and hospitality at events such as the Melbourne Cup for several politicians while Virgin Australia offered MPs access to their Velocity lounges and loyalty program.
Meanwhile, Qantas flight bookings have rebounded to pre-strike levels just over a week after the airline's dramatic global fleet grounding.
A huge exodus of passengers to other carriers, mostly Virgin Australia, was one of the reasons Mr Joyce grounded the fleet last month in an effort to bring a permanent halt to industrial action by three unions.
John Guscic from internet booking agency Webjet said the action appeared to have had the desired effect.
"The bookings going forward reflect a bounce back," Mr Guscic said.
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Gobbledock;
Mate for your own sanity, I think you should leave QF.
Mate for your own sanity, I think you should leave QF.
My point is that I am watching a once very good premium service which had a few nice bells and whistles attached turn into a second rate farce.
Anybody stood in the business class check-in line at any of the majors lately? Half the time the general check-in lines move faster?
Anybody lately tried to work quietly with their laptop while consuming a glass of OJ in the lounge? Hard to achieve anything while feral brats run screaming around the lounge while their 'mums with nose jewellery and barge arse whale tails exposed sit quietly staring into space while devouring some salmonella inducing pasta salad'.
I guess that in my own terminology this is my frustration with the Rat, and what it has become.
Worrals - I absolutley love your post. Weeds, fertilizer, throw in a mention perhaps of 'polishing the turd' and you are bang on the money!
Now, who do I phone because I am sure I can smell urea somewhere around here.............
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Busted!
Qantas Annual Report, page 77
Qantas Group’s domestic market share is expected to remain between 64 and 65 per cent (2010: 64 and 65 per cent) and international market share remains between 27 and 28 per cent (2010: 27 and 28 per cent). These ranges were estimated having regard to the Qantas Group’s committed fleet plans and those of its existing competitors.
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Glad you approve. 
Cart elevator, I don't think the issue has gone away. I mix with a lot of people who aren't aviation based and like Wunwing I have found that particularly since the grounding, many people are interested and (I find, anyway) a bit suss about AJ and QF management. Last week I ended up boring an entire dinner party about it for two courses because they wouldn't change the subject, however hard I tried.
It would be very unsual for an issue to dominate news headlines for more than a few days. Apart from political crap you usually only see that level of coverage when there's an accident causing a massive loss of Australian lives or a big overseas weather disaster with lots of piccies. Even foreign airline crashes usually only get a couple of days coverage unless there were a lot of Aussies on board.
As for the IR stuff, I think that's worrying a lot of people who work for wages. Someone needs to paint 'remember what happened to you bastards last time' across the Liberal HQ front door. However, who needs the Libs when you can get shafted by the ALP? Damned if you're red, damned if you're blue, not going green whatever happens, and even bloody Katter's looking comparatively appealing.
Anyway, I hope you're wrong WRT our IR future but unfortunately I'm not too sure you are...
Cart elevator, I don't think the issue has gone away. I mix with a lot of people who aren't aviation based and like Wunwing I have found that particularly since the grounding, many people are interested and (I find, anyway) a bit suss about AJ and QF management. Last week I ended up boring an entire dinner party about it for two courses because they wouldn't change the subject, however hard I tried.
It would be very unsual for an issue to dominate news headlines for more than a few days. Apart from political crap you usually only see that level of coverage when there's an accident causing a massive loss of Australian lives or a big overseas weather disaster with lots of piccies. Even foreign airline crashes usually only get a couple of days coverage unless there were a lot of Aussies on board.
As for the IR stuff, I think that's worrying a lot of people who work for wages. Someone needs to paint 'remember what happened to you bastards last time' across the Liberal HQ front door. However, who needs the Libs when you can get shafted by the ALP? Damned if you're red, damned if you're blue, not going green whatever happens, and even bloody Katter's looking comparatively appealing.
Anyway, I hope you're wrong WRT our IR future but unfortunately I'm not too sure you are...
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 9th Nov 2011 at 03:27.
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So it's on again - Headline news on the ABC here in Perth "Commuters face renewed travel chaos" as the lead-in to the TWU potentially appealing the FWA hearing.
Sigh, and I thought the ABC was more balanced than that.
Sigh, and I thought the ABC was more balanced than that.
Last edited by SimonBl; 9th Nov 2011 at 22:28.
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I see the Rat PR machine are in overdrive yet again.
Not sure how anyone makes the quantum leap from an appeal to the Federal court to further disruptions.
This has the same stench about it that keeps coming from Rat HQ.
Not sure how anyone makes the quantum leap from an appeal to the Federal court to further disruptions.
This has the same stench about it that keeps coming from Rat HQ.
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teiemka, OK, how do we square that with this statement:
Air Navigation and Civil Aviation Amendment (Aircraft Crew) Bill 2011, Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011
FRIDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 2011
AJ just seems not to mention the Jetstar contribution at all. Is it part of the Qantas, the Qantas Group or operating on its own? Is Jetstar one of the "other airlines".
The justification for the Asian hub is that 82 per cent of the market travel on other airlines, whilst not mentioning the additional 8 per cent traveling on his "other airline" of which he has diverted capacity, deliberately muddying the waters to obfuscate the issue.
The load factors for Qantas are high. The question is, if Jetstar international had not been started, what would been the percentage be? I put it to you it would be very close to the 27~28 per cent. Passengers are choosing to fly Qantas internationally, however, they are being denied the ability to do so in greater numbers through a policy of deliberately reducing available capacity.
Originally Posted by Alan Joyce
The Asian airline is actually going to recover our share of the market into Asia. At the moment we need to recover the traffic that has gone to Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Malaysia—it is not travelling with Qantas today. In fact, as you know we only have 18 per cent market share—82 of every 100 travelling Australians travel on another airline. We need to recover that. And it is even worse in Asia. So we need an Asian hub.
FRIDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 2011
AJ just seems not to mention the Jetstar contribution at all. Is it part of the Qantas, the Qantas Group or operating on its own? Is Jetstar one of the "other airlines".
The justification for the Asian hub is that 82 per cent of the market travel on other airlines, whilst not mentioning the additional 8 per cent traveling on his "other airline" of which he has diverted capacity, deliberately muddying the waters to obfuscate the issue.
The load factors for Qantas are high. The question is, if Jetstar international had not been started, what would been the percentage be? I put it to you it would be very close to the 27~28 per cent. Passengers are choosing to fly Qantas internationally, however, they are being denied the ability to do so in greater numbers through a policy of deliberately reducing available capacity.
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From ABC News' website a short time ago:
Labor Senator wants Qantas strike ban challenged
Posted November 10, 2011 10:03:35
A West Australian Labor Senator has defied the Government and urged the Transport Workers Union (TWU) to challenge Fair Work Australia's decision banning all industrial action at Qantas.
The union will reportedly meet the ACTU today to consider seeking a Federal Court stay on the decision.
If successful, the challenge could reignite action which led to the grounding of the airline almost two weeks ago.
Treasurer Wayne Swan says the Government's position is very clear.
"The Government would strongly oppose any attempt to challenge that decision of Fair Work Australia to terminate the industrial action from any party, from any union, or any employer," he said.
But Labor Senator and former Transport Workers Union official Glenn Sterle disagrees.
"Both parties have every legal option to challenge any decision all the way through and in all fairness to the members of the TWU at Qantas," he said.
"If I was a member of the TWU at Qantas, I would want them to pursue that.
"If Qantas are fair dinkum, Qantas tell us they're fair dinkum, well, sit down and negotiate. The TWU want, quite rightly, job security, and Qantas aren't prepared to come to the table and talk about job security."
The comments took another Labor Senator and former union boss, Doug Cameron, by surprise.
"That's news to me," he said.
"The Government's position as I understand it, unless there's been a change that I'm unaware of, is that the parties should sit down under the auspices of Fair Work Australia, negotiate in good faith, and bring about an end to the dispute.
Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has told Channel Nine he is confident the ruling by Fair Work Australia will stand up to any court challenge.
"The Government were careful about which way to use the act and which way to apply for the termination of the enterprise bargaining period," he said.
"We believe the decision taken by Fair Work Australia was the right decision; it was a sound, legal and robust decision."
Opposition Senator Eric Abetz has condemned the union's possible Federal Court challenge.
"All this mess and ongoing uncertainty is going to do further damage to public confidence in Qantas, as a result of which there will be further damage and disruption to the travelling public," he said.
Labor Senator wants Qantas strike ban challenged
Posted November 10, 2011 10:03:35
A West Australian Labor Senator has defied the Government and urged the Transport Workers Union (TWU) to challenge Fair Work Australia's decision banning all industrial action at Qantas.
The union will reportedly meet the ACTU today to consider seeking a Federal Court stay on the decision.
If successful, the challenge could reignite action which led to the grounding of the airline almost two weeks ago.
Treasurer Wayne Swan says the Government's position is very clear.
"The Government would strongly oppose any attempt to challenge that decision of Fair Work Australia to terminate the industrial action from any party, from any union, or any employer," he said.
But Labor Senator and former Transport Workers Union official Glenn Sterle disagrees.
"Both parties have every legal option to challenge any decision all the way through and in all fairness to the members of the TWU at Qantas," he said.
"If I was a member of the TWU at Qantas, I would want them to pursue that.
"If Qantas are fair dinkum, Qantas tell us they're fair dinkum, well, sit down and negotiate. The TWU want, quite rightly, job security, and Qantas aren't prepared to come to the table and talk about job security."
The comments took another Labor Senator and former union boss, Doug Cameron, by surprise.
"That's news to me," he said.
"The Government's position as I understand it, unless there's been a change that I'm unaware of, is that the parties should sit down under the auspices of Fair Work Australia, negotiate in good faith, and bring about an end to the dispute.
Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has told Channel Nine he is confident the ruling by Fair Work Australia will stand up to any court challenge.
"The Government were careful about which way to use the act and which way to apply for the termination of the enterprise bargaining period," he said.
"We believe the decision taken by Fair Work Australia was the right decision; it was a sound, legal and robust decision."
Opposition Senator Eric Abetz has condemned the union's possible Federal Court challenge.
"All this mess and ongoing uncertainty is going to do further damage to public confidence in Qantas, as a result of which there will be further damage and disruption to the travelling public," he said.
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Bargaining the Qantas way: how not to run an industrial dispute
Here's an interesting article by Clive Thompson, described as "Senior Visiting Fellow and teacher of a negotiation skills and change management course at University of New South Wales":
Bargaining the Qantas way: how not to run an industrial dispute
Bargaining the Qantas way: how not to run an industrial dispute
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FYSTI I posted earlier about the load factors of QANTAS. As of August 2011 they had load factors of 75% outbound and 71% inbound. These figures do not include JQ. As for market share into Malaysia, we have none as we have not flown there in a number of years and when JQ tried it a couple of years ago they failed and pulled out inside of a year.
The 18 out of 100 that fly QANTAS is for all flights against all airlines that we don't even compete against. The 75% and 71% load factors are for airlines we do compete against.
The 18 out of 100 that fly QANTAS is for all flights against all airlines that we don't even compete against. The 75% and 71% load factors are for airlines we do compete against.