MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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Forward loads are very poor. To Europe in December, normally full but checking now there are some days with only half full A380's
Tomorrow morning SYD-MEL peak hour almost 100 seat available.
Great time to use staff travel
Tomorrow morning SYD-MEL peak hour almost 100 seat available.
Great time to use staff travel
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Then again, I never had any doubt that as an Infantry Officer he always figured a large aeroplane with complex systems carrying 400 people at 1000 km/h at 39,000 ft can be operated just like a Unimog
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Forward loads are very poor
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Can anyone name a major airline that DOESN'T have it's own maintenance base in their home country and outsources 100% of their major maintenance ?
Is it really cheaper to maintain an aircraft in Asia ? Ok the labor cost is $25 an hour but the customs delays, back handers (how are they going to handle that ?) are going to be issues and the skill level ISN'T to Qantas standards with very few exceptions. I've had customers wait 6 months to get a D check completed on a B737 here in Indonesia !
Is it really cheaper to maintain an aircraft in Asia ? Ok the labor cost is $25 an hour but the customs delays, back handers (how are they going to handle that ?) are going to be issues and the skill level ISN'T to Qantas standards with very few exceptions. I've had customers wait 6 months to get a D check completed on a B737 here in Indonesia !
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One example - - - I have flown the family (6 of us) SYD/LAX/SYD each year for the past 3 years. Now for personal reasons I hate Virgin with a burning passion, but I just paid for my next trip for the family to LA with them. Why? Well QF now has the most unreliable, expensive ****e service for that route ever. No more getting screwed around by them, no more crammed antiquated 747 for me. Virgin are offering a modern aircraft, better leg room, better meals and better IFE. To hell with Joyce and his mainline international operation which is absolutely pathetic, he can shove it, I am voting with my feet.
Borghetti, you have just picked up my international business as well as domestic flights effective immediately. I never ever thought I would say it of do it. Well done Virgin, there is absolutely no doubt that the longer Joyce and co stay at Qantas the bigger the Virgin business will grow. I may be one voice but I now know several other businesses deserting QF. I do wish all the Qantas staff (below management level) all the best in your battle, you don't deserve to be shat on by the rogue Irish imbecile. I hope in my heart that you can win me back one day.
Borghetti, you have just picked up my international business as well as domestic flights effective immediately. I never ever thought I would say it of do it. Well done Virgin, there is absolutely no doubt that the longer Joyce and co stay at Qantas the bigger the Virgin business will grow. I may be one voice but I now know several other businesses deserting QF. I do wish all the Qantas staff (below management level) all the best in your battle, you don't deserve to be shat on by the rogue Irish imbecile. I hope in my heart that you can win me back one day.
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I know a few other people like CactusJack , these are Q Platinum and Gold FF and they said if they're status is recognised by other airlines they are moving ...
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Besides hearing of others swapping allegiances, I personally know of one leading travel agent tour rep, a Qantas gold FF and long time Qantas fan, who was offered Lounge access last week on their first/forced flight with Virgin. My acquaintance, who didn't reveal who they worked for, questioned the offer thinking it was a mistake, but to their increasing disbelief they were then given a Virgin gold FF card and a premium seat!
One new convert who just happens to be responsible for hundreds of bookings a week.
One new convert who just happens to be responsible for hundreds of bookings a week.
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This is the biggest surprise consequence of the Joyce grounding , Platinum and Gold FF, 20 to 40 year customers moving away from Qantas, Q's most loyal customers.
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The Libs showed their true colours on the news tonight when discussing the lockout debacle with Penny Wong. Seemed totally against the QF workforce. It seems work choices is still very much on the agenda.
They have also lost the support of many of the family and friends of staff who work there. Word does travel quick!!
This is the biggest surprise consequence of the Joyce grounding , Platinum and Gold FF, 20 to 40 year customers moving away from Qantas, Q's most loyal customers.
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Its a precarious situation we find ourselves in right now.
On one hand Labor will destroy the country with existing policies and I want to see them suffer for what they are doing.
On the other, man if Abbott and co get in they will support the 1% who own the government and control business. There will be some type of revamp of industrial relations much to our detriment.
We need a fair dinkam third option to keep the bastards honest. Unfortunately this has been the greens and independents. Look what happened.
What to do what to do.
On one hand Labor will destroy the country with existing policies and I want to see them suffer for what they are doing.
On the other, man if Abbott and co get in they will support the 1% who own the government and control business. There will be some type of revamp of industrial relations much to our detriment.
We need a fair dinkam third option to keep the bastards honest. Unfortunately this has been the greens and independents. Look what happened.
What to do what to do.
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Now let me get this right. Joyce claims Qantas is unable to pay a cent more in wages to the "less than 20% of employees" (his words) who are agitating for some seemingly modest pay increases.
Joyce refuses to even talk to these people (indicating a total lack of communicative ability, let alone leadership ability) - yet he grounds the airline, without a shred of care for anyone, be they employee or customer - costing the airline something in the order of $30 to $40M, in initial grounding costs? (haven't seen, and probably never will see, the actual cost of this grounding, in relation to daily, ongoing costs).
Now, after some rumblings from the ACCC, whereby the ACCC has told Qantas that it has to... "reimburse passengers for everything from hotel and transport costs, to missed pleasure cruises and flights booked whilst Qantas was grounded".
This payout is going to be substantially more than the miserable $350 per passenger, initially offered by Qantas - and it could become a very substantial figure, when people start claiming lost income because they missed flights to their workplaces (surgeons missing surgery appointments come to mind) - or they decide to sue.
The end result is going to be, that the total cost of this grounding exercise is easily likely to be something in the region of $100M, if the compensation is substantial, and the compensation outlays are properly accounted for - and not hidden in the mass of "running cost" figures, that the Qantas Board appear to be very good at manipulating.
So... in the washup... Joyce claims he is totally unable to pay any increased pay claims... yet he can blow (read "waste") up to a possible $100M on an exercise that achieved little more than worldwide anger from employees, the travelling public, politicians, and aviation groups... and which militant exercise, also trashed the airline brand, that he was appointed to, to supposedly "nurture" and "improve" its profitability?
Is there any doubt left in anyones mind what Joyce really plans to do with Qantas??
Joyce refuses to even talk to these people (indicating a total lack of communicative ability, let alone leadership ability) - yet he grounds the airline, without a shred of care for anyone, be they employee or customer - costing the airline something in the order of $30 to $40M, in initial grounding costs? (haven't seen, and probably never will see, the actual cost of this grounding, in relation to daily, ongoing costs).
Now, after some rumblings from the ACCC, whereby the ACCC has told Qantas that it has to... "reimburse passengers for everything from hotel and transport costs, to missed pleasure cruises and flights booked whilst Qantas was grounded".
This payout is going to be substantially more than the miserable $350 per passenger, initially offered by Qantas - and it could become a very substantial figure, when people start claiming lost income because they missed flights to their workplaces (surgeons missing surgery appointments come to mind) - or they decide to sue.
The end result is going to be, that the total cost of this grounding exercise is easily likely to be something in the region of $100M, if the compensation is substantial, and the compensation outlays are properly accounted for - and not hidden in the mass of "running cost" figures, that the Qantas Board appear to be very good at manipulating.
So... in the washup... Joyce claims he is totally unable to pay any increased pay claims... yet he can blow (read "waste") up to a possible $100M on an exercise that achieved little more than worldwide anger from employees, the travelling public, politicians, and aviation groups... and which militant exercise, also trashed the airline brand, that he was appointed to, to supposedly "nurture" and "improve" its profitability?
Is there any doubt left in anyones mind what Joyce really plans to do with Qantas??
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As a former Gold FF (I don't travel much anymore) and 30 year customer of Q I will still fly Q if it gives me the best routing (which it normally does) and I will pay a 20% or 30% premium over other airlines , if Q becomes say Philippine Airlines disguised as a Kangaroo that willingness to pay a premium disappears.
I think the bean counters and bankers are assuming the revenue line stays the same when they punch in the revised cost structures moving significant chunks of operational costs off shore into their financial models , my gut feel is a business which is going to be worth less not more from a pure financial perspective.
It would be interesting to see how the loss of Platinum and Gold FF has impacted income over the next 6 months , how much money just walked out the door ? Are the numbers of Platinum and Gold FF publically reported anywhere in Qantas annual reports ? This is something that the existing management will want NOT to report. Anyone on the inside able to leak these figures ?
Also for a 'private company' there's a lot of blurring between a private company and 'an essential service' and getting the government involved when it suits them , I think the whole ownership and future of Qantas needs to be reviewed , maybe the government needs to buy back 51% (at current share prices it's cheap) and put some staff representation on the board. To lose a NATIONAL ASSET like the Qantas Jet Base and the skills and training it provides would be a disaster long term for short term gain after the financial locusts have made their windfall profit and moved on. Ex Qantas engineers are highly sort after overseas so the skills and training are recognised by the market.
With regards to baggage handling and other services which HAVE TO BE IN OZ , how are they going to reduce costs on that ? Bring in slave workers from Khazakhstan after outsourcing to a private company ? Everyone looks down on the baggage handlers but the quickest way to have an angry customer is for their bags not to turn up within 15 to 20 mins after the flight arrives, an important part of the customer satisfaction chain.
I have never before been involved in these worker vs management discussions but the arrogance of the grounding and the unequal playing field being used against people I went to school with , learnt to fly with etc who are well intentioned average Aussies pisses me off.
Also if there has been deception , back room deals and other foul play by management these issues need to be investigated and the players exposed to the process of law and not swept under the carpet. Joyce is a willing but disposable hand puppet who will be gone once his mission is done , who is really pulling the strings ?
ps . I would much rather fly on a 777 than an A330 , why did they buy those 'fly by HAL' aircraft ?
-
I think the bean counters and bankers are assuming the revenue line stays the same when they punch in the revised cost structures moving significant chunks of operational costs off shore into their financial models , my gut feel is a business which is going to be worth less not more from a pure financial perspective.
It would be interesting to see how the loss of Platinum and Gold FF has impacted income over the next 6 months , how much money just walked out the door ? Are the numbers of Platinum and Gold FF publically reported anywhere in Qantas annual reports ? This is something that the existing management will want NOT to report. Anyone on the inside able to leak these figures ?
Also for a 'private company' there's a lot of blurring between a private company and 'an essential service' and getting the government involved when it suits them , I think the whole ownership and future of Qantas needs to be reviewed , maybe the government needs to buy back 51% (at current share prices it's cheap) and put some staff representation on the board. To lose a NATIONAL ASSET like the Qantas Jet Base and the skills and training it provides would be a disaster long term for short term gain after the financial locusts have made their windfall profit and moved on. Ex Qantas engineers are highly sort after overseas so the skills and training are recognised by the market.
With regards to baggage handling and other services which HAVE TO BE IN OZ , how are they going to reduce costs on that ? Bring in slave workers from Khazakhstan after outsourcing to a private company ? Everyone looks down on the baggage handlers but the quickest way to have an angry customer is for their bags not to turn up within 15 to 20 mins after the flight arrives, an important part of the customer satisfaction chain.
I have never before been involved in these worker vs management discussions but the arrogance of the grounding and the unequal playing field being used against people I went to school with , learnt to fly with etc who are well intentioned average Aussies pisses me off.
Also if there has been deception , back room deals and other foul play by management these issues need to be investigated and the players exposed to the process of law and not swept under the carpet. Joyce is a willing but disposable hand puppet who will be gone once his mission is done , who is really pulling the strings ?
ps . I would much rather fly on a 777 than an A330 , why did they buy those 'fly by HAL' aircraft ?
-
Last edited by aseanaero; 6th Nov 2011 at 07:54.
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piston broke again
They'll come off the QANTAS books. Jet Connect will tell QANTAS it's your stuff up you pay for it.
onetrack
This will run into hundreds of millions. If the engineers IA in 2008 reportedly cost the company $150million for a few hours stoppage, this IA by Joyce will run into hundreds of millions.
Short_Circuit
QANTAS does fly to NZ, but not many flights.
So does Jetconnect wear the cost of these free flights to/from NZ? Or does it come off Qantas' books...?
onetrack
So... in the washup... Joyce claims he is totally unable to pay any increased pay claims... yet he can blow (read "waste") up to a possible $100M on an exercise that achieved little more than worldwide anger from employees, the travelling public, politicians, and aviation groups... and which militant exercise, also trashed the airline brand, that he was appointed to, to supposedly "nurture" and "improve" its profitability?
Short_Circuit
Free qantas flights to anywhere in Oz (not many) & NZ? qantas does not fly to NZ, J* & Jetconnect does, not qantas.
Last edited by QF94; 6th Nov 2011 at 07:43.
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Joyce is a willing but disposable hand puppet who will be gone once his mission is done , who is really pulling the strings ?
Probably why the board are saying nothing and keeping a low profile.....
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Senate Inquiry TV coverage
TIMA9X,
You always manage to come up witht the goods when we need you. Do you happen to have any copies of the afternoon session (Woodward, Jackson and Purvinas) at the Senate Inquiry last Friday?
Or anyone else for that matter.
Cheers
You always manage to come up witht the goods when we need you. Do you happen to have any copies of the afternoon session (Woodward, Jackson and Purvinas) at the Senate Inquiry last Friday?
Or anyone else for that matter.
Cheers
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only the morning show
Sorry guys, only the morning show with AJ and cast, (focused on AJ that day... ) surely someone at AIPA or over SP's HQ...... or TWU...... can get it posted?
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what part of the sale act is so hard to understand
QANTAS SALE ACT 1992 - SECT 7 Qantas' articles of association to include certain provisions
(e) prohibit Qantas from taking any action to bring about a change of its company name to a name that does not include the expression "Qantas"; and
(f) prohibit Qantas from conducting scheduled international air transport passenger services under a name other than:
(i) its company name; or
(ii) a registered business name that includes the expression "Qantas"; and
(g) require that the head office of Qantas always be located in Australia; and
(h) require that of the facilities, taken in aggregate, which are used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled international air transport services (for example, facilities for the maintenance and housing of aircraft, catering, flight operations, training and administration), the facilities located in Australia, when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal operational centre for Qantas; and
(i) require that, at all times, at least two-thirds of the directors of Qantas are to be Australian citizens; and
(j) require that, at a meeting of the board of directors of Qantas, the director presiding at the meeting (however described) must be an Australian citizen; and
(k) prohibit Qantas, at all times, from taking any action to become incorporated outside Australia.
QANTAS SALE ACT 1992 - SECT 7 Qantas' articles of association to include certain provisions
(e) prohibit Qantas from taking any action to bring about a change of its company name to a name that does not include the expression "Qantas"; and
(f) prohibit Qantas from conducting scheduled international air transport passenger services under a name other than:
(i) its company name; or
(ii) a registered business name that includes the expression "Qantas"; and
(g) require that the head office of Qantas always be located in Australia; and
(h) require that of the facilities, taken in aggregate, which are used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled international air transport services (for example, facilities for the maintenance and housing of aircraft, catering, flight operations, training and administration), the facilities located in Australia, when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal operational centre for Qantas; and
(i) require that, at all times, at least two-thirds of the directors of Qantas are to be Australian citizens; and
(j) require that, at a meeting of the board of directors of Qantas, the director presiding at the meeting (however described) must be an Australian citizen; and
(k) prohibit Qantas, at all times, from taking any action to become incorporated outside Australia.
(f) prohibit Qantas from conducting scheduled international air transport passenger services under a name other than:
