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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:01
  #721 (permalink)  
 
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You really have to hand it to him as a brilliant strategist.

pigs arse,
more like a drama queen.
dancing to clifford and freehills tune.

and the pilots submission in fwa,
looked like 'it wasn't my fault'...
well... mummy told you not to play with the
bad boys down the road, now go to your room
and take off that rediculous tie.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:05
  #722 (permalink)  
 
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Bad luck fella's

You have all been " Bene & vere shafted "

Sad day but it was very clear to see what was going to happen.

I am so glad I have retired from this sad industry!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:06
  #723 (permalink)  
 
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The CEO and board are on the nose big time. They may have had a small win from the FWA but the bigger picture has been revealed. The true intent and the manipulation of both the government and traveling public is exposed as the most cynical act it was. The backlash from Canberra can't be recovered with Grange and Ipads. Both Evans, Albanese and Shorten have been very unimpressed with the grounding. The arrogance of the board has just shone the spotlight squarely on themselves. Perhaps this will uncover the true nefarious dealings of management in their pursuit to run Qantas down and cross subsidize
J*. Amendments to the Sale Act could be in the wings. The strategic and economic shortcomings of the legislation have been exposed for all to see.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:10
  #724 (permalink)  
 
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no, you dont have to actually resign, just give a weeks notice. and after a few days, withdraw that notice..
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:10
  #725 (permalink)  
 
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The pilots, baggage handlers and engineers all need to resign en-mass on Tuesday at 0900. That will get the Boards attention.
AP,

Thats was tried in 1989, it did not work then and will not work now.

This is now more so "death by a thousand cuts" for the company, they have not won, unless a substandard EBA is signed.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:12
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no, you dont have to actually resign, just give a weeks notice. and after a few days, withdraw that notice.
That won't work either, once you give your notice, the company is not obliged to accept a rescindment.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:13
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You silly little irish git.It's one thing to fight the unions but what in HELL
were you trying to achieve by turning aircraft around that were about
to take off, loaded with passengers.
This is industrial irish TERRORISM against your customers.
It's a lame excuse to say it was a safety issue, you could'nt
trust your pilots not to do something silly against the aircraft.
My friend, your brain is miswired, pilots are not that stupid.
In any case how could you trust the engineers to park the planes.
Screw your customers, the latest Qantas tactic,go home git!
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:14
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SDT said

The pilots, baggage handlers and engineers have not flinched, the company inflamed the situation because it knew you wouldn't fold and tried to get the government to intervene, which indirectly they did, stay the path.


Shed Dog Tosser (nice tag) is correct,

Tah Yoonions did not play the expected role of bad boy as so desperately wanted by management. They have not flinched so the little un-catholic boy threw the toys out of the cot and the guvmint had to step in. (reluctantly mind you and completely blindsided -they are NOT happy Jan and will be after their own little bit of payback from the leprichaun)

Stick together and if little sausage sucker can on a whim inflict a hit of $20-$30m then I will be seeing this as a future target. (I'm a good employee that follows the example that is laid down from esteemed management) There's 3.5 billion in reserve and it will be my mission to blow it all so there's nothing left for the leeches to suck on.

No companies / people named or implied!
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:24
  #729 (permalink)  
 
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I think it was the only option Joyce had and a very brave move. It might just have saved Qantas.

As a Swede on onlooker from abroad, I can only draw parallels to the Scandinavian carrier SAS. Go back 30 years and SAS was a truly intercontinental airline with daily flights to South America, Asia, the US and everywhere you can imagine in Europe, running their DC8's, DC9's, DC10's and 747's. Fuelled on by the good times and the self love of all the 'Best Airline Of The Year' awards they picked up like candy in the 80's, the staff and the unions got big heads and started to demand ever greater perks and less working hours. They completely ignored any outside factors such as recessions, competition, changing demographics etc and plodded merrily on with their requests and still do.

Every year over the last 20 years, there has been some kind of union disruption and "slow bake", designed to interrupt as much as possible until they get what they want. And like all union action, it's us, the travellers, the third party that suffers. This is of course the whole idea. And because SAS is co-owned by the governments of Norway, Sweden and Denmark, semi-socialist, the hardest hitting union, the Danish one, has been allowed to set the agenda. This has resulted in SAS being literally obliterated in Sweden and Norway when it comes to intercontinental travel. The Danish unions decided that Kastrup is the hub and that was that, so now the antiquated hub system of the 70s' in full force - you can't travel anywhere without changing planes at Kastrup. And as airline travel is today, people simply won't do it and chose other alternatives.

The result is that SAS is today a sad, sad shadow of its former self. Constantly bankrupt, the governments have to chip in every year to keep it afloat. The pilots and cabin crew have ridiculous pay for the amounts they work - higher than any other airline in the world, I think. They don't fly anywhere you want to go and if they do, you have to change planes in Kastrup when all the competitors go direct. And because of labour unions, the cabin crew is 55+ years old, have been doing it for too long and subsequently hate their customers - they smile at you through gritted teeth and are sarcastic. Virtually all the intercontinental lines are dropped and they're desperately hanging on to a few profitable Euro runs. The MD80's are well over 20 years past their prime but they're so skint they can't even afford to replace them with even 10 year old aircraft. It's a mess.

Now, new companies are moving in, making inroads and soon there won't be a SAS when the governments hit recession and don't fancy feeding the monster to the tune of 6 billion each year. It's a tragic set of events, and we Scandinavians were as proud of SAS as you are of Qantas. SAS used to be the benchmark, the clean, minimalist, good service, high quality Scandinavian alternative for international travel.

Everyone here knows who's to blame - unions that refuse to move with the times.

A slow SAS death is not something you should want for Qantas and therefore I think Alan Joyce did the right thing. He brought it to a head and for good or bad, something new will arise from that and positions will move. His job is to save Qantas in the long run, and all the other options were designed to do the opposite. Maybe not immediately, but the 'slow bake' would have killed it eventually, you can be sure of that.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:28
  #730 (permalink)  
 
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Freehills, James Strong, naive pilots, recalcitrant management, no right to strike, Justice Giudice, Heather Ewart, compliant government, overseas carriers on domestic routes........

Talk about déjà vu!.....where did the last 22 years go?
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:38
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No Idea

AdamFrisch,

With all respect I think you have not a clue. This is not SAS and the lessons from that failure have been learn long ago.

This is a new but old peanut shell game and there is no way you would connect the name AJ with the long term future of Qantas. Spend a bit of time and find out what is really going on before you sprout drivel will you.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:43
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The judgment

Does anyone know where I can find FWA's judgment? It is not available on their website yet.

I'm particularly interested in the reasoning in relation to the pilots' PIA.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 21:47
  #733 (permalink)  
 
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FWA headquarters, 2nd floor, room 118. Second filing cabinet from the right
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:16
  #734 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if Gillard, upset about looking like a bit of a dill and just been totally embarrased in her home country in front of world leaders, is going to take a round about way of doing something similar to Joyce and co.

Like the Qantas Sale Act amendment about to go before parliament.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:17
  #735 (permalink)  
 
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This debacle has highlighted the need for the government to regulate the minimum requirements that Qantas must always provide in regards to availability of aircraft to ensure continuity of travel for the Australian public.

Regardless of Joyce's motives I think now the Qantas sale act will be strengthened to ensure that the airline remains in Australia, and the board to ensure these requirements are always maintained. Anything else and any future governments can be held to ransom at any time by the board.

I do believe an own goal may have been scored by Joyce et al.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:21
  #736 (permalink)  
 
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"Slow Bake " eh Stevie BOY , more like a deep fry . Time for you and your mates woodie and sheldon to start behaving like Union Officials and stop acting like media tarts . You lost touch with the tried and true union actions and let your egos take over . A sorry outcome for your rank and file members , who followed your "leadership" . You might get 3.5% pa but little else out of arbitration . A comprehensive loss for you and your Executive team, back to spanner turning but not for you .
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:22
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Unintended consequences can be roughly grouped into three types:
  • A positive, unexpected benefit (usually referred to as serendipity or a windfall).
  • A negative, unexpected detriment occurring in addition to the desired effect of the policy (e.g., while irrigation schemes provide people with water for agriculture, they can increase waterborne diseases that have devastating health effects, such as schistosomiasis).
  • A perverse effect contrary to what was originally intended (when an intended solution makes a problem worse), such as when a policy has a perverse incentive that causes actions opposite to what was intende
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:25
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This debacle has highlighted the need for the government to regulate the minimum requirements that Qantas must always provide in regards to availability of aircraft to ensure continuity of travel for the Australian public.
like not being able to ground the fleet at a whim for bully boy tactics.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:30
  #739 (permalink)  
 
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The war is far from over. There is more than one way to skin a rat.
As shed dog tosser mentioned, 'work to rule' is one method to get back at the mucous running QF. Not to mention overtime bans, refusal to extend hours, managing all the parameters of a flight to include the least fuel effective method, and absolutely going out of your way to ensure that the company operates as inneficiently as is legally possible.
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Old 30th Oct 2011, 22:30
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This debacle has highlighted the need for the government to regulate the minimum requirements that Qantas must always provide in regards to availability of aircraft to ensure continuity of travel for the Australian public.
More than that. Now is the time to nationalise Qantas. Joyce now thinks he has a green light to dismantle Qantas and will happen very very quickly.

If Qantas was bought out by the government, Jetstar and FF could almost immediately be floated and recoup much of the initial cost. Qantas domestic would return a tidy dividend over the years to come and international restructured (with 777's) to profitability with no subsidising Jetstar.

Engineering excellence would be restored with onshore heavy maintenance ensuring a viable aviation maintenance industry remains in this country.
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