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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 29th Oct 2011, 14:59
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Unfortunately the unions played games by announcing work stoppages and then calling them off at the last minute, too late damage done but no come back on them as they didn't actually go on strike.

International and domestic are as different as chalk and cheese, domestic compete only with Virgin on the same playing field, ie depreciation rates on aircraft, work place health and safety, award rates of pay, union membership etc. They have done a reasonable job and retain their position as market leader.

Internationally it's a totally different ball game. Back in 1976 QF had a 46% share, 1996 it was 39%, ten years ago 35% and today less than 20%. Asian and Middle Eastern competators play by different rules. The one area QF had a big advantage in was it's reputation for quality and safety, this has been trashed by poor business decisions resulting in a fleet of geriatric B744s flying around with a known engine problem.

There is no longer any reason to pay the premium Qantas need to charge over other airlines due to their higher cost base. Passengers voted with their feet and who can blame them with Singapore/Emirates offering nice new aircraft, better service, easy connections through their hubs and lower fares.

If Qantas international isn't going to end up with an unsustainable single figure percentage of the market things have to radically change. Costs need to come down and product needs to improve. Would sensible decisions taken years ago have avoided this ? Absolutely, B777s properley maintained with a good onboard experience, costs trimmed where necessary and the business could have competed and remained profitable.

Any instrument rated pilot knows the advantage of making a small correction early on and keeping the needles centred, Qantas have just about gone out of tolerance and need a major correction or a missed approach is imminant.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 15:29
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Maybe he was saying he's a little "happy" man...

This is an easy fix... I may be dreaming buts let's just say.

Aj sacked
Board investigated for breaches to corporations act, qantas sales act, etc.
Crisis meeting
New board and CEO appointed
Ebas resolved with clause for job security
A 1.5 billion dollar facelift including new aircraft and aggressive advertising strategies taken.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 15:31
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Qantas CEO has 'gone mad' say pilots

AIPA vice president Richard Woodward said the move was "premeditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible".
"Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Captain Woodward said.
Advertisement: Story continues below
"No-one predicted this, because no one thought Alan Joyce was completely mad.
"This is a stunning overreaction. It is straight-up blackmail.
"I knew he was trying to kill Qantas, but I didn't know he wanted to do it this quickly.
"This is a grave and serious situation and the board should move to sack Mr Joyce immediately. This is the saddest day of my 25 years with Qantas."
He said AIPA's industrial action has been limited to making brief, positive in-flight announcements and wearing red ties.
"In response to this, Mr Joyce has now locked out every pilot working for Qantas. This is nothing short of crazy behaviour,"

Read more: Qantas CEO has 'gone mad' say pilots
Captain Woodward is right on message here, and this is the message the public will in time pick up on. AJ is the one who will come out of this badly along with LC in the end game if everyone stays cool.

FWA is a complicated mess for Joe punter, Joe will show little interest in what goes on behind the scenes, all Joes is interested in is getting from A to B if he still has a booking, AJ has completely messed that up for Joe.... Joe will blame him.

I believe metro man made a very valid point in his last post,

Internationally it's a totally different ball game. Back in 1976 QF had a 46% share, 1996 it was 39%, ten years ago 35% and today less than 20%. Asian and Middle Eastern competators play by different rules. The one area QF had a big advantage in was it's reputation for quality and safety, this has been trashed by poor business decisions resulting in a fleet of geriatric B744s flying around with a known engine problem.

There is no longer any reason to pay the premium Qantas need to charge over other airlines due to their higher cost base. Passengers voted with their feet and who can blame them with Singapore/Emirates offering nice new aircraft, better service, easy connections through their hubs and lower fares.
What metro man says here I think many of us on here agree with already, this mess was created by the Q management not the staff.

This is message, poor decision making.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 16:09
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MAKE no bones about it, Qantas's strategy to neutralise the power of the unions representing long-haul pilots, aircraft engineers and ground crews has been long in the planning. It even draws into the dispute workers who have no part.


Pilots who fly aircraft in Australia are not involved in the battle, yet Alan Joyce will ground the domestic fleet with the international one.
Since taking the reins from Geoff Dixon three years ago, Joyce and his executive team have been flying towards this confrontation with key parts of its workforce. They will have the backing of Qantas's chairman, Leigh Clifford, who earned a reputation for playing hardball with unions as boss of the mining giant Rio Tinto.


But the timing is awful.


The Labor government will be severely embarrassed by these drastic steps in the midst of a gathering of world leaders. Qantas now runs the risk of turning many in cabinet against it, even those who may have been ambivalent about the merits of both sides. And, it is vital for Qantas to have the government on side.
In the pilots' strike in 1989, which was a long time brewing, some contingency plans were able to be made by the government, such as calling in the RAAF and allowing international airlines to carry traffic domestically.
This time, Qantas has given no advance warning.


The government will now force a resolution. Australia depends on aviation like almost no other country. While Virgin Australia, Jetstar and Tiger Airways can fill some of the gap, the grounding of the Flying Kangaroo will bring many businesses to a grinding halt.


But even with a resolution, it will leave a toxic legacy within Qantas as it embarks on its most aggressive push into Asia, where it wants to set up subsidiary airlines employing workers on lower pay rates and conditions than their Australian counterparts.

Joyce and the Qantas board have embarked on high-risk poker.
AJ, LC and board are really heading for trouble, they have indeed taken all the staff and customers as hostages. Even Tiger must be jumping with joy with the free gift from AJ, new customers!
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 19:40
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The Chasers Version

Chaser QANTAS Ad - YouTube
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 20:00
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Do we know if trading (QAN Shares) will be halted or not?? J* and Qlink still flying so maybe not.

SN
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 20:09
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Originally Posted by Soup Nazi
Do we know if trading (QAN Shares) will be halted or not?? J* and Qlink still flying so maybe not.

SN
Qantas currently shown as 'delisted' on my broker's site
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 20:25
  #288 (permalink)  
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Nothing on the ASX site about "de-listing"? How can they be delisted?

It is a "significant event" and requires reporting to the ASX, which will probably lead to a halt in share trading.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 20:29
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tw
They won't be de-listed but it is normal for the board to suspend trading whilst a decision that may markedly affect the share price is made and communicated to the public. They can only stop trading for so long though. Could be a bargain if it comes way down from where it is.

SN
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 20:45
  #290 (permalink)  
 
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History will show that the decision to ground QF was a big mistake just as the decision by the pilots to resign was in 1989. I just hope the outcome for all concerned is not as bad.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 20:47
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Sandilands is calling it interval between acts in the Qantas theatre of the absurd.

He has pulled apart some of the figures and claims.

Qantas grounding case takes a break as travel havoc persists | Plane Talking

Don't know whether its related, but just after sunrise I had to drive a sort distance on the Hume freeway near here and the road traffic was really busy southbound. Punters heading to the Melbourne Cup?
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:06
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Think I might just go out to Longreach and start another mail run.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:12
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Trading wouldn't be halted as the announcement was made whilst the market was closed, but I'm surprised that there has been no announcement made to shareholders via the ASX.

Given the lack of information disclosed to shareholders at the AGM, I should probably not be shocked.

Other flag carriers have successfully established remote hubs, and built successful businesses outside of their traditional markets without managing to alienate their workforce, passengers, general public, government and the associated brand damage in the process.

It's a pity that the current QF management team don't display the same enthusiasm for managing the airline that they currently have vs the one that the accountants and consultants have dreams about.

Best of luck to those caught in the cross-fire...
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:12
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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Watch for a takeover bid for Qantas to appear very shortly.

As someone said, airlines are a public shareholders nightmare; but of course if you are a private investor, and can buy an airline for a song, what is not to like, especially if the Qantas brand comes with it?

The APA boyze were prepared to pay $5.60 a share to get it. They have NOT given up. Watch for the same boyze to have another go shortly.

The grounding of the fleet? Obviously preplanned and part of the script.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:25
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Has Oneworld had anything to say yet? There must be a lot of inconvenienced code share passengers from the other member airlines.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:41
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My bet is that AJ pulled the stunt on Saturday so it wouldn't affect share trading immediately, with the knowledge that the government would be forced to react immediately in the national interest, particularly with the Spring racing carnival underway, and that this phase of the issue will be resolved by the end of the weekend with FWA cancelling all PIA and everything slowly returning to operation by Monday morning. This would result in the smallest impact on the share price.

Of course if it isn't resolved by Monday morning then hang on tight!

He has called the governments bluff, not the unions'. It will be interesting to see how hardline Bob Brown is on his views. He will be the key to this in the short term.

Albanese obviously is aware he has been played by Joyce. Gillard on the other hand may well have been complicit. Insiders might be interesting this morning.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:44
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Spokeswoman from VB sprooking support for the public and extra flights on ABC 24, has a grin from ear to ear, I bet they just can't stop laughing!

SN
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:44
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This is absolutely the right call by the CEO. Its a gutsy proactive move. Its easy to sit back and criticise AJ when none of us will now never know the result of an alternative decision by the QF board, i.e sit back and watch the unions hassle the company over the next 12 months. This is what the unpopular labor govt has demonstrated....a lack of guts to be proactive even as recent as last week when they were advised and asked by several leading people to be pro-active and get involved. What did they choose to do? Nothing and now, yesterday, we see Gillard taking action. A good smart govt would have seen this coming ages ago and should have acted ages ago. I'd be very surprised to see QF start up again in the same scale and size that they were yesterday, at least as far as LH ops are concerned. 1000 job losses is going to look cheap when all this is said and done. The blame lies fairly and squarely on the 3 union leaders I'm afraid. They all got caught hook line and sinker!
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:48
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Good to see the greedy selfish Qantas Captains affected by Joyce's action. They never gave a rats arse about their junior colleagues now they have found out the hard way the rot starts at the bottom.
It is laughable how bloody stupid Qantas pilots are.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 21:51
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The utter contempt for the traveling public shown by the Qantas Board and Management is instructive.

This action was preplanned, it has to be. Joyce could not and would not do this without Board support. The timing was deliberately established to disrupt a public holiday as well.

Qantas may even be making more money out of this action if the cheap fares have disappeared as has been suggested.
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