MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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1) employees are after job security (nothing is secure these days!!!) but is always possible.
2) CEO security not possible either but $5.5 million PA (or what ever it is) after a few years why worry !!!!!!
2) CEO security not possible either but $5.5 million PA (or what ever it is) after a few years why worry !!!!!!
ALAEA notice?? I would expect they do not have the time at the moment to put together a notice.
Stay calm and be patient. We're on a journey that Joyce has mapped out over the last three years since our last stouch.
It probably has a while to run yet.
Stay calm and be patient. We're on a journey that Joyce has mapped out over the last three years since our last stouch.
It probably has a while to run yet.
Whispering "T" Jet
This is not new. Ansett and Australian management did the same thing in '89.
Qantas PR are also copying the tactics used in '89 - bad unions, holding hard working Australians to ransom, etc,. etc,.
Difference here is the unions are carrying on with legal, protected industrial action sanctioned by Fair Work Australia.
Once the Airline starts locking out workers and pleading with the Government to step in, you KNOW they are on the back foot. They are losing this one and know it and are trying on shock tactics with the unions. They won't buy it and neither does the Government by the sound of Albanese.
Qantas PR are also copying the tactics used in '89 - bad unions, holding hard working Australians to ransom, etc,. etc,.
Difference here is the unions are carrying on with legal, protected industrial action sanctioned by Fair Work Australia.
Once the Airline starts locking out workers and pleading with the Government to step in, you KNOW they are on the back foot. They are losing this one and know it and are trying on shock tactics with the unions. They won't buy it and neither does the Government by the sound of Albanese.
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there is no way in this wide world that any action such as this presently in train would have been concocted, planned and put into action without any legal advice having been sought, double checked and then the double check being double checked again. This would have taken time and not just something thrown together this morning.
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There was a post here on another thread that stated the minister and Joyce had a meeting sometime last week. I have a feeling that this was all planned out and the minister knew some part of the plan before today.
PRIME Minister Julia Gillard will intervene in the Qantas dispute, launching an emergency application to force the airline's grounded planes back in the air.
If successful, the Gillard government will secure a ruling by the national workplace relations tribunal Fair Work Australia to force Qantas and the unions to cease all industrial action.
If successful, the Gillard government will secure a ruling by the national workplace relations tribunal Fair Work Australia to force Qantas and the unions to cease all industrial action.
Sprucegoose
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Interesting press conference with Minister Albanese on ABC News 24, referenced the heavy handedness of Qantas given the minimum action taken by long haul pilots.
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Albanese does not sound AT ALL impressed. He stated that the only industrial action that the pilots are taking is to not wear their hats & make PA's to customers - he strongly implied that Qantas's action today is not commensurate to the union action.
"A breach of faith with the government" - Tom Albanese
"A breach of faith with the government" - Tom Albanese
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It won't drag out that long or you won't be in a job. The company can't sustain a loss for that long.
However much damage has been caused by all the IA and the safety scare, the damage done by this will be much, much, much worse. This is a bastard, dog act by the QF board especially considering the timing.
I must admit I half supported the expansion into asia. As much as I hated it as a pilot and an Australian, it made business sense, sorta. I now believe that this can only result in either the collapse of Qantas or the Resignation/dismissal of Joyce.
However much damage has been caused by all the IA and the safety scare, the damage done by this will be much, much, much worse. This is a bastard, dog act by the QF board especially considering the timing.
I must admit I half supported the expansion into asia. As much as I hated it as a pilot and an Australian, it made business sense, sorta. I now believe that this can only result in either the collapse of Qantas or the Resignation/dismissal of Joyce.
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Time for the aviation industry unions to talk to the MUA as this is playing out very similar to the waterfront dispute of 98. Wharfies ended up back on the job after a protracted lockout albeit with some changes to T & C.
Hopefully this isn't the end play to break the airline apart for private buyout but the board have had a long time to plan this and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this happened. Sad day indeed.
Hopefully this isn't the end play to break the airline apart for private buyout but the board have had a long time to plan this and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this happened. Sad day indeed.
Sprucegoose
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Antony Albanese has been pontificating on the TV. Bumbling idiot. At least he doesn't change.
I hate the man with a passion, but it's probably the first time I have ever heard him say anything that I agree with!
Good to hear both Barry Jackson and now Richard Woodward commenting in a calm and rational manner.
Prof. Airport Engineer
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This thing ain't gonna fix. Has anyone stood up with a solution? TV is full of half-wits with plenty of hand wringing and pointing the finger - apart from that - nothing ! No fix in sight.
Been through [caught up in] the Ansett debacle, and I learned then that the unthinkable is possible. I'd been thinking for the last few weeks that Qantas is working towards closure, and that's suddenly getting very much closer.
Been through [caught up in] the Ansett debacle, and I learned then that the unthinkable is possible. I'd been thinking for the last few weeks that Qantas is working towards closure, and that's suddenly getting very much closer.
From the Adelaide Advertiser:
High-cost kangaroo of Qantas cannot continue, says Dick Smith
I ALWAYS fly Qantas when going overseas because I can afford it. But most of my friends don't, because they can't.I am amazed Qantas International is still in business. It's a credit to everyone involved.
But it's obvious that unless CEO Alan Joyce is allowed to make huge changes, the whole airline will go broke.
I can't understand why the unions don't get that.
Our skies have been opened up to cheaper foreign carriers. Our leaders - and we, the people - have chosen lower globalised prices, which can only be sustained by lower globalised wages.
If Qantas International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business.
That said, we can pay decent Australian wages to pilots - if they work the same number of hours in the cockpit as their Aussie pilot mates at Emirates, Etihad and elsewhere.
However, a greater percentage of cabin crew will have to be employed on global wages.
And while those employed in Australia to maintain its domestic fleet should be OK, an increased proportion of the maintenance for the international flights will have to be done offshore.
I have a number of aircraft and I have had to stop in Singapore and Dubai to have maintenance done.
The maintenance has been just as good - because the supervisors are Australian or are British. The actual workers are from the Philippines and they get paid roughly half the wage available here.
Consider this - about 30 per cent of an airline's costs are labour. Halving the labour costs means you can reduce your total costs by 15 per cent.
A typical airline's profit margin is 5 per cent, so you can see the difference a 15 per cent reduction in costs can make.
I do understand the unions seeing an unfairness in powerful groups such as the legal fraternity and politicians protecting their Australian wages and conditions while saying to typical workers, "Bad luck - you have to compete". If I was a Qantas worker, I would help management save every dollar and be as productive as possible - otherwise I'd know my job was doomed.
Dick Smith is a businessman and former chairman of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority
I ALWAYS fly Qantas when going overseas because I can afford it. But most of my friends don't, because they can't.I am amazed Qantas International is still in business. It's a credit to everyone involved.
But it's obvious that unless CEO Alan Joyce is allowed to make huge changes, the whole airline will go broke.
I can't understand why the unions don't get that.
Our skies have been opened up to cheaper foreign carriers. Our leaders - and we, the people - have chosen lower globalised prices, which can only be sustained by lower globalised wages.
If Qantas International doesn't get globalised wages it will go out of business.
That said, we can pay decent Australian wages to pilots - if they work the same number of hours in the cockpit as their Aussie pilot mates at Emirates, Etihad and elsewhere.
However, a greater percentage of cabin crew will have to be employed on global wages.
And while those employed in Australia to maintain its domestic fleet should be OK, an increased proportion of the maintenance for the international flights will have to be done offshore.
I have a number of aircraft and I have had to stop in Singapore and Dubai to have maintenance done.
The maintenance has been just as good - because the supervisors are Australian or are British. The actual workers are from the Philippines and they get paid roughly half the wage available here.
Consider this - about 30 per cent of an airline's costs are labour. Halving the labour costs means you can reduce your total costs by 15 per cent.
A typical airline's profit margin is 5 per cent, so you can see the difference a 15 per cent reduction in costs can make.
I do understand the unions seeing an unfairness in powerful groups such as the legal fraternity and politicians protecting their Australian wages and conditions while saying to typical workers, "Bad luck - you have to compete". If I was a Qantas worker, I would help management save every dollar and be as productive as possible - otherwise I'd know my job was doomed.
Dick Smith is a businessman and former chairman of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority
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I was impressed with Albanese.
Me thinks this will spawn legions of royal commissions, senate enquiries, parliament question times etc.
I think AJ has shot himself in the foot.
Hold out folks!
Me thinks this will spawn legions of royal commissions, senate enquiries, parliament question times etc.
I think AJ has shot himself in the foot.
Hold out folks!