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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:45
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I can think of one thousand , nine hundred and eighty nine reasons why you will lose this one.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:45
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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FWA Adjourned just now for an unspecified time.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:46
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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David1300 you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I don't even know where to start. Do you even have a clue what the "job security" clauses are?
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:47
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so what happens to the crews that are overseas. Does the company still keep paying for their hotels & meals or are they own their own after the lockdown on Monday?
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:52
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Angry QANTAS FWA

I don't use "twitter" too often but there is some interesting reading there. Just search "Qantas FWA". It appears Qantas, AND the politicians are attempting to "terminate" and not just "suspend" the action.

So that looks like the plan- involve the government to terminate legally authorized PIA.

Not Happy!
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:52
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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An overseas "perspective"...


BRITISH author LP Hartley once wrote: "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."

The various unions currently raging against Qantas would do well to ponder that line - because the past is where they seem to live.

With the opening to competition of many overseas routes, Qantas lost what had long been among the company's economic footholds. Competition brought better deals for passengers but, inevitably, pressure upon our national carrier.

Other economic realities are also bearing down on Qantas. This is why the airline is restructuring. It is crucial that Qantas or a subsidiary airline establish a viable Asian hub, otherwise the opportunity to compete for the lucrative and expanding market will be lost to foreign-owned airlines.

At the same time, the airline is seeking to take advantage of the lower labour costs available throughout Asia. To not do so would consign Qantas to an expensive and desperately uncertain future.

Yet the unions that are disrupting the travel plans of thousands of Australians appear to believe we're living in the '70s with no foreign pressure, no competition and no need to change.

Unions are framing the current situation as one of bosses versus workers.

Much is being made of Alan Joyce's $5 million salary. In reality, the choice is between maintaining an Australian- based airline with many overseas arms or not having such an airline at all.

The unions must decide between losing some jobs or potentially losing all of them. That may sound extreme, but remember that less than a decade ago Ansett was thought to be a permanent part of the Australian aviation landscape. It would be a tragedy if Qantas were to hit the same turbulence.

Don't trash the talent

AS Peter Costello once put it, having three children was a matter of one for mum, one for dad and another one for the country.

But with the cost of raising three in Sydney now reaching beyond $1 million, the bank manager must be factored in as well. An enormous proportion of that cost is in income lost to mothers, which explains why women are delaying starting families for so long.

This isn't because women are placing wealth above children. Rather, it simply takes a very long time for professional women in Sydney to reach a level of financial security they feel will allow them to properly provide for their children.

One solution is more job flexibility, allowing women to remain in the workforce while raising families. The losses here aren't solely to new parents. Employers, too, miss out on years of expertise. More creative blending of work and family can be of benefit to all.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:54
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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@eject "David1300 you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I don't even know where to start. Do you even have a clue what the "job security" clauses are? "

You have a right to your opinion, but I notice that you didn't even answer a single question, or add a meaningful comment - not even 1. This is part of my point - this does you and your co-workers no favours. You apparently can't even articulate a reason to support you, nor apparently can you answer simple questions.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 12:57
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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A sad time

This situation,created by people with intractable opinions and egos, will do great harm to Qantas, the collective unions involved, the Travelling public and more to the point Australia. It is hoped by a whole swag of people that it will be resolved soon, on a permanent basis, or we can kiss goodby to our national carrier.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:00
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May have been mentioned before.... but strangely, Dick Smith commented today (almost with insight) that a lot of the issues facing everyone at Qantas are the result of Australian Govts. (of all persuasions) throwing the doors wide open in a 'free skies' frenzy. With low cost operators flooding the market with their almost unlimited capacity, Qantas has been sacrified to global markets. Either the Govt. backs off with it open skies policy or Qantas will be destroyed by overseas airlines with less tax, less regulation and cheaper costs. A lot of the blame lies with governments intent on globalising Australian markets. Dick Smith made the pertinent comment that politicians, lawyers, companyy directors, CEO's etc. all give themselves protection from globalised wages, while the workers have to cop the full impact of foreign 'free trade' competition. Improved productivity and reduced wages are only required of those who are exposed to market forces. The afforementioned people make sure protectionism remains for themselves.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:00
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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This WILL have repercussions for ALL Australian workers.

Screwing the 'toffs' at Qantas is just the entree - big business will screw Joe average from here to eternity.

Stick a fork in its arse and turn it over - this country's done.

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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:01
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Your all getting played!

AJ is about to pull off a brilliant union busting move not seen since the likes of Frank Lorenzo and Contential, short of calling QANTAS bankrupt....

The Pollies won't care, all they want to see is QANTAS back in the air with minimal disruption. The timing is impeccable, Melbourne Cup coming hard and fast and several leaders/delegations from Heads of Commonwealth nations in town in Perth.... all a neat side show for the world to see...

He's pretty much got the media on his side.. public perception is that this is about pay.. NOT job security.
QANTAS won't fold, not with 3 Billion in the bank,

By rescinding your legal avenues to Industrial action, AJ will win...
What can be done about it? Not much.. except maybe vote with your feet, mass resignations.... a hell of a play, but so it grounding 108 aircraft worldwide.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:07
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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David1300

From this you'll see I am like many others - I am driven by a price/value/quality equation, and Qantas no longer comes out near best. Without people like me buying tickets. people like you won't have a job. It's that simple. Price yourselves out of the market, and the market will move on without you, or your employer, or Joyce. His successor will be more hard-line, and so on until Qantas, in whatever form it is then, can survive. And it will probably be without you, and your unions, and it won't matter a single jot that people will call it 'un-Australian'. Let's face it - it will be as Australian as Vegemite.
From you above statement, you are an Australian employed in Australia? Just to put me in the picture, what industry are you in? No specifics, just an industry. If you're based here selling a product/service, I then become like you. Without people like me buying your product/service, people like you won't have a job. And so the merry-go-round spins.

Questions:
A - what do people hope to achieve by becoming abusive, calling management criminals, etc? (The only answer I have at the moment is that it shows the level of mindless drivel that some people spout).
I see. The board having full knowledge during the AGM yesterday of the events that unfolded today, misleading their shareholders AFTER all their resolutions were passed is not a criminal act? Mr Joyce getting his 71% pay increase with the knowledge that he was going to bludgeon the travelling public 24 hours later is not a criminal act. The board creating a $20million a day cost to the company due to their industrial action? Locking out workers that weren't involved in any dispute is not a criminal act?

B - How do strikers think or believe that they will get a favourable outcome by crippling the organization that employs them?
I believe Mr Joyce is the one that crippled the airline today with less than 3 hours notice to the federal transport minister. We didn't strike. They even called back aircraft that were lined up for take off back to the terminal today and have all the passengers and their baggage offloaded. The pilots, engineers and baggage handlers, members of those bad unions did as they were told. They most probably had to act against their will to carry out the orders of the management that grounded the airline in a wildcat fashion.

C - Do the strikers/unions think that the short-lived feeling of satisfaction they may get if AJ is replaced will last them long enough when they are faced with the next hard b*st*rd that is appointed to do what needs to be done?
Now that the scene has been set. There will never be another CEO/board member trusted as far as they can be kicked. There is still resentment for Geoff Dixon, but now the current CEO is the one in the sights.

D - And will that feeling of satisfaction pay their mortgages and childrens school fees when the crippled entity they once worked for manages to survive and recover facing the global inevitably?
Either way, losing a few hours/days wages or losing your job to be offshored for the likes of you who are price/value/quality driven. I don't know or care what you earn, but when the cost of living is rising faster than your wages, and believe me 3% doesn't cover the increase, you need to try and keep up. Companies want globalised wages for the workers. How about globalised cost of living?

PS - how many of you watch the news on Australian made televisions, or search the internet on Australian made computers, while wearing your asian-made clothes, eating food produced by Australian-owned companies? I could go on, but I won't. You aren't the solution - you are just now facing the problem and the reality that has hit much of the rest of Australia in the last 30 years. A country of less than 25m people is not very significant in world terms, no matter how much you or I wish it were. Fortress Australia/Qantas does not exist.
The answer to much of the above will be zero, with the exception of the food. I still have a choice with this. It may be a bit more expensive, and I mean maybe only 10% more, but I am supporting an Australian farmer. What's left of them. Why is this? Because we have let Australian jobs go overseas, growing other economies, while we are shrinking our own. This is exactly what is happening to QANTAS today.

For a country of less than 25million people, we sure have the ability to be self-sufficient. We have all the natural resources we need, and we have the know-how to make it happen. Sure we need to trade with other countries, but we don't need to sell out to them or give them our jobs. Maybe we should adopt their protection policies. Asia certainly has protection policies.

I trust I have addressed your questions. Maybe not to your liking, but I have addressed them in the least.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:09
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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Can't be bothered David. Try the most basic research into the claims..

It's all in these forums...
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:12
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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Hearing at FWA has been called back. Prepare the vasoline.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:13
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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Wall Street - Gordan Gekko You're All Pretty Much ****** - by TheLawman49 - YouTube
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:16
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Dom Knight - one of the chaser guys, came up with this gem:

Sack Joyce and put hero pilot Richard de Crespigny at the helm. Fixing this dispute's easier than landing that A380, surely?

FWA recalled as prev said by AF.

Speaking of AF - Air France Cabin Crew going on strike too.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:18
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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Hey is this meeting at FWA going on "NOW" as I sit here at 0020 EST ???
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:19
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Hate to say it but 'Duh'

This always was about headline grabbing by Mr. Joyce and trying to get the government to intervene. The question is what is the damage done by this move? Far more i'd wager than the IA.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:20
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Guess mr Joyce felt that his pile of death threats wasn't big enough.
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Old 29th Oct 2011, 13:20
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itsjustme: Affirm. Twitter
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