Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have never seen and heard such acts of arrogance to those who 'own' the Airline.
Clifford's self-importance is breathtaking. He must hate having to speak to mere mortals.
For the rest of that Board, what a sorry bunch. Told when to speak and muzzled otherwise. The discusions around the Qantas Boardroom must be just a one way sham, followed by lots of tea drinking.
Namblard, when allowed to speak, didn't answer the question. Instead, rambled on in some incoherent European mumbo jumbo. Obviously, that exclusive Board club, scratch mine and I'll scratch yours, is alive and well post GFC. Director's fees of several hundrd thousands each, money well spent!
There is no hope.
Clifford's self-importance is breathtaking. He must hate having to speak to mere mortals.
For the rest of that Board, what a sorry bunch. Told when to speak and muzzled otherwise. The discusions around the Qantas Boardroom must be just a one way sham, followed by lots of tea drinking.
Namblard, when allowed to speak, didn't answer the question. Instead, rambled on in some incoherent European mumbo jumbo. Obviously, that exclusive Board club, scratch mine and I'll scratch yours, is alive and well post GFC. Director's fees of several hundrd thousands each, money well spent!
There is no hope.
All that was witnessed today was an example of corporate Australia in action.
It had to go this way as a reaffirmation of their ideals of looking after your own and continuation of the gravy train. It's totally endemic in this country, as long as there is inflation and growth in the world everyone is happy. Institutional investors are YOUR Superannuation fund. They have no choice but to invest in the ASX200, billions and billions of your dollars. They are staffed by corporate knobs, pointing their funds votes toward their corporate knob mates, voting on each others corporate knob mates remuneration packages, coined by their other knob mates consultant firm who decides what an appropriate package should be based on.. It's as I have coined it in the past, a complete corporate circle jerk. The perfect system that once you're inside of, life is great. It's not hard to become a multimillionaire when all you have to do is get the job and turn up.
We just witnessed it today like never before because we actually paid attention. Normally these formalities go by without any news coverage, no normal people coverage, nothing. Formalities to suit a law and rubber stamp what they are doing anyway.
It's a bit like selling a house, being a real estate agent in boom times is the best job in the world, everyone wants to buy and the houses can't be flipped quick enough. When the music stops though, watch the losers fall out of the industry.
But it does seem the management, those who won't pay the rampies an extra $1 an hour, $21 instead of $20 or
who won't guarantee that Qantas branded aircraft won't continue to be maintained by Qantas branded engineers (if not, why not ?? - some plan in the works) or
won't guarantee that Qantas branded aircraft won't continue to be flown by Qantas branded pilots (if not, why not ?? - some other plan in the works).
If they won't cede to the above mentioned, ask why not. If the answer is as obvious as it seems then what's left then, but to fight ?
2 companies to look up to see this type of corporate knob in action. Pacific Brands and The Colorado Group.
It had to go this way as a reaffirmation of their ideals of looking after your own and continuation of the gravy train. It's totally endemic in this country, as long as there is inflation and growth in the world everyone is happy. Institutional investors are YOUR Superannuation fund. They have no choice but to invest in the ASX200, billions and billions of your dollars. They are staffed by corporate knobs, pointing their funds votes toward their corporate knob mates, voting on each others corporate knob mates remuneration packages, coined by their other knob mates consultant firm who decides what an appropriate package should be based on.. It's as I have coined it in the past, a complete corporate circle jerk. The perfect system that once you're inside of, life is great. It's not hard to become a multimillionaire when all you have to do is get the job and turn up.
We just witnessed it today like never before because we actually paid attention. Normally these formalities go by without any news coverage, no normal people coverage, nothing. Formalities to suit a law and rubber stamp what they are doing anyway.
It's a bit like selling a house, being a real estate agent in boom times is the best job in the world, everyone wants to buy and the houses can't be flipped quick enough. When the music stops though, watch the losers fall out of the industry.
But it does seem the management, those who won't pay the rampies an extra $1 an hour, $21 instead of $20 or
who won't guarantee that Qantas branded aircraft won't continue to be maintained by Qantas branded engineers (if not, why not ?? - some plan in the works) or
won't guarantee that Qantas branded aircraft won't continue to be flown by Qantas branded pilots (if not, why not ?? - some other plan in the works).
If they won't cede to the above mentioned, ask why not. If the answer is as obvious as it seems then what's left then, but to fight ?
2 companies to look up to see this type of corporate knob in action. Pacific Brands and The Colorado Group.
Institutional investors are YOUR Superannuation fund. They have no choice but to invest in the ASX200, billions and billions of your dollars.
Vote with your feet. I have. They can take their crap-shooting stock market and shove it.
[And the best way you can annoy a particular company you own shares in is to sell all your shares except one. With one share you can still attend AGMs if you so choose. Make sure you opt to receive all the paper Annual Reports etc. It costs as much to deal with a shareholder with one share as to deal with a shareholder with 50 million shares].
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The End Of The Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Recipe for the future.
1. NO Higher Duties.
How many people are working in an acting position, without it being added to their base rate (for superannuation purposes etc.)
2. NO Overtime.
Why does the company require overtime to acquit normal workloads and keep the aircraft flying.
1. NO Higher Duties.
How many people are working in an acting position, without it being added to their base rate (for superannuation purposes etc.)
2. NO Overtime.
Why does the company require overtime to acquit normal workloads and keep the aircraft flying.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
50% of jobs gone next year if this keeps up. It might be a threat, but I reckon they would carry it out. And if it happens the travelling public would have no support for engineers or pilots.
I know some fools would fight until the company went under or they lost their job, but some people still need to feed a family and pay off a mortgage.
If all you have licence wise is a 744 or 767 then your career in Australia is over if you lost your job.
At least having a 738 or 330 gives you some very minor job prospects. Even thinking of moving to the desert wouldn't be an option as they normally require at licences on at least one of the types they operate.
Unfortunately things are going to change whether you like it or not.
And as I wrote yesterday about the AGM being a bloodbath or not, it was an absolute walk in the park for the board, no blood in sight.
I know some fools would fight until the company went under or they lost their job, but some people still need to feed a family and pay off a mortgage.
If all you have licence wise is a 744 or 767 then your career in Australia is over if you lost your job.
At least having a 738 or 330 gives you some very minor job prospects. Even thinking of moving to the desert wouldn't be an option as they normally require at licences on at least one of the types they operate.
Unfortunately things are going to change whether you like it or not.
And as I wrote yesterday about the AGM being a bloodbath or not, it was an absolute walk in the park for the board, no blood in sight.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Doing a pre flight inspection
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to make decisions for what is right by yourselves and your families, not some union with a puffed out chest which at the end of the day will still have a job while you wont, also think about being employee by another airline after being involved with industrial action at Qantas, wouldnt sit well with a future employer.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Look up and wave
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to make decisions for what is right by yourselves and your families, not some union with a puffed out chest which at the end of the day will still have a job while you wont, also think about being employee by another airline after being involved with industrial action at Qantas, wouldnt sit well with a future employer.
If Qantas does fall, someone will replace it and there will be jobs. Having said that I doubt it will come to that.
*
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
better to live on your knees,you cowards.Grow a spine,if you do nothing you may as well move to Asia because that's where your wage level will be at,at least the cost of living is less in the Asian countries.
Last edited by qf 1; 29th Oct 2011 at 02:58.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So Qantas goes under you lose your $120k LAME position and you wait for another company to come along and take you on. That is a nice fairy tale.
Go and speak with the ex-Emirates LAMEs who were shafted and now work for Jetstar. After taking a $50k pay cut and starting at the bottom of the ladder, yes they have a job, but it is not the same.
And if Qantas did sack all its engineers, you will find that every job you apply for will have a lot of your old work colleagues applying for it as well. It is not a simple as you think it will be.
JHAS would likely do OK out of it as it picked up QFs work, but once again speak to JHAS employees, they are gettiing shafted there as well.
Believe it or not, having a LAME spot with QF is a good gig. Having 1600 LAMEs all similarly qualified, all applying for the same jobs in the real world will be a huge awakening for those who have never had a job outside of QF.
Talking about scabs, well QF did employ some ex scabs into base a few years ago, and what did the main work force do? Nothing. Nothing at all.
Go and speak with the ex-Emirates LAMEs who were shafted and now work for Jetstar. After taking a $50k pay cut and starting at the bottom of the ladder, yes they have a job, but it is not the same.
And if Qantas did sack all its engineers, you will find that every job you apply for will have a lot of your old work colleagues applying for it as well. It is not a simple as you think it will be.
JHAS would likely do OK out of it as it picked up QFs work, but once again speak to JHAS employees, they are gettiing shafted there as well.
Believe it or not, having a LAME spot with QF is a good gig. Having 1600 LAMEs all similarly qualified, all applying for the same jobs in the real world will be a huge awakening for those who have never had a job outside of QF.
Talking about scabs, well QF did employ some ex scabs into base a few years ago, and what did the main work force do? Nothing. Nothing at all.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have a RIGHT, to undertake PIA in an attempt to bargain in GOOD FAITH. Imagine living without that RIGHT.
Management's recklessness is outstanding. But, they know the political powers would intervene if thousands of jobs were culled. The media, public and political fallout would be enormous.
It would take a very brave Board to oversee that.
Instilling fear in their own employees is just as reckless.
Get off your knees and stand up.
Management's recklessness is outstanding. But, they know the political powers would intervene if thousands of jobs were culled. The media, public and political fallout would be enormous.
It would take a very brave Board to oversee that.
Instilling fear in their own employees is just as reckless.
Get off your knees and stand up.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MACH082,
Its not 'if' but when QF LH gets restructured. However, 'if' they rightly shutdown some large segments of QF ops due to aggressive union tactics, then you are dreaming if your exit strategy is that 'someone else will come along and there will be plenty of jobs'.
All of you guys will be blacklisted for years. Any new start up would rather pay a third party contractor more money than hire an ex union member who contributed to this whole mess in the first place.
NP
Its not 'if' but when QF LH gets restructured. However, 'if' they rightly shutdown some large segments of QF ops due to aggressive union tactics, then you are dreaming if your exit strategy is that 'someone else will come along and there will be plenty of jobs'.
All of you guys will be blacklisted for years. Any new start up would rather pay a third party contractor more money than hire an ex union member who contributed to this whole mess in the first place.
NP
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't finished yet.
Your gig is working for a bunch of pr##ks who can lie to and about you whilst staring you in the eye.
If you're unclear about your future prospects, 'the good gig', WE do not feature in their future plans. No gig with Jetstar, Fantasia, 787s, 320neos, IFE and very probably heavy maintenance. Now add maint-on demand, cat A certifiers and an ever diminishing Qantas fleet and not a customer airline contract in sight. How many jumbos will still be around next year?
Is this the good gig you're talking about or is it the job security we're fighting for?
Believe it or not, having a LAME spot with QF is a good gig
If you're unclear about your future prospects, 'the good gig', WE do not feature in their future plans. No gig with Jetstar, Fantasia, 787s, 320neos, IFE and very probably heavy maintenance. Now add maint-on demand, cat A certifiers and an ever diminishing Qantas fleet and not a customer airline contract in sight. How many jumbos will still be around next year?
Is this the good gig you're talking about or is it the job security we're fighting for?
All of you guys will be blacklisted for years. Any new start up would rather pay a third party contractor more money than hire an ex union member who contributed to this whole mess in the first place.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up left - Down right
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back to O/T bans please
AJ has indicated the direction they (the Board) are taking Qantas in his threat made yesterday.
They will shrink Qantas by 50%, that is what they already have planned and that is what they will be pursuing in the next 12 months.
It has nothing to do with unions or pay rises and never has been. The 3% was all we were going get regardless of PIA or not. They will cull QF to clear the way for Jetstar and Q-Asia to take over international flying and leave Qantas domestic only.
This union push is about jobs in Australia for Australians and keep Qantas Australian.
To Save Our Airline.
They will shrink Qantas by 50%, that is what they already have planned and that is what they will be pursuing in the next 12 months.
It has nothing to do with unions or pay rises and never has been. The 3% was all we were going get regardless of PIA or not. They will cull QF to clear the way for Jetstar and Q-Asia to take over international flying and leave Qantas domestic only.
This union push is about jobs in Australia for Australians and keep Qantas Australian.
To Save Our Airline.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arnold,
The point is, any new start up, including a new QF LH start up would 'rather' pay a third party contractor more than a blacklisted ex union member. I did not say they 'will' pay more, because the reality is, they won't need to!
Your jobs including those of the Pilots are not irreplaceable. It may take some time to replace those skilled positions, but 98% of shareholders have deep pockets and will fund whatever it takes to change the culture.
I can just see a lot of expat Pilots and LAME's working overseas hoping that you guys continue to dig yourselves and even bigger hole. Then, when its too late, you will finally see the light and realise what you have lost.
NP
The point is, any new start up, including a new QF LH start up would 'rather' pay a third party contractor more than a blacklisted ex union member. I did not say they 'will' pay more, because the reality is, they won't need to!
Your jobs including those of the Pilots are not irreplaceable. It may take some time to replace those skilled positions, but 98% of shareholders have deep pockets and will fund whatever it takes to change the culture.
I can just see a lot of expat Pilots and LAME's working overseas hoping that you guys continue to dig yourselves and even bigger hole. Then, when its too late, you will finally see the light and realise what you have lost.
NP
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wattlegrove
Age: 52
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's now time to deal.
I agree with another superlame and VBPCGUY, surely now it is time to do a deal with the company. If we keep going on like this we will loose whatever support we still have with the public and the Government. We are playing into their hands, they don't mind getting rid of more of us and growing their Asian Airlines, they will simply blame us and sell the story beautifully. Its time we do a deal with the company and explian to the public that we would rather have our jobs and some control over the safety and maintenance of our Airline then loose our jobs and watch it all go to ****. Don't continue to fight for the unacheivable at such a high cost. It's not worth it. Lets protect our jobs and our future.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Oz
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Saint
Your defeatist sense belies your name.
What the hell do you think the negotiating team has been trying to do. For over a year.
Please tell us what you're prepared to accept, so this deal can be done. And is this the company offer?
Your defeatist sense belies your name.
Its time we do a deal with the company
Please tell us what you're prepared to accept, so this deal can be done. And is this the company offer?
Last edited by Clipped; 29th Oct 2011 at 03:42.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a question
It would seem to me that the one tangible asset which Qantas has that cannot be shifted offshore are the routes and Landing rights to and from Australia.
Are these fully transferable to any entity which Qantas chooses?
Maybe a line of attack to consider. Without routes and landing right Q-Asia or whatever it is called would be stuffed.
It would seem to me that the one tangible asset which Qantas has that cannot be shifted offshore are the routes and Landing rights to and from Australia.
Are these fully transferable to any entity which Qantas chooses?
Maybe a line of attack to consider. Without routes and landing right Q-Asia or whatever it is called would be stuffed.
Last edited by JALurker; 29th Oct 2011 at 04:05.
saintgeorge
in relation to your comments:
Do you understand what management want to do to us with this EBA?
Do you understand what the ALAEA is trying to achieve with this EBA?
What do you think the unfettered introduction of the 'A' Licence is going to do to "our jobs and our future" ?
If you want a redundancy package, thats all fine and dandy, but what if you DON'T want a redundancy package? How do you know you'll be one of the lucky ones that don't get a tap on the shoulder as the 'A' Licences ramp up and the B1's/B2's ramp down?
Do you work in Line, Base or Heavy?
in relation to your comments:
we would rather have our jobs and some control over the safety and maintenance of our Airline then loose our jobs and watch it all go to ****
Lets protect our jobs and our future.
Do you understand what the ALAEA is trying to achieve with this EBA?
What do you think the unfettered introduction of the 'A' Licence is going to do to "our jobs and our future" ?
If you want a redundancy package, thats all fine and dandy, but what if you DON'T want a redundancy package? How do you know you'll be one of the lucky ones that don't get a tap on the shoulder as the 'A' Licences ramp up and the B1's/B2's ramp down?
Do you work in Line, Base or Heavy?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minto
Age: 44
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
re It's now time to deal.
And have a job for 2 more years. We are dealing with vindictive pricks who will be after retribution when you aren't protected anymore. WAKE UP TO YOURSELF. This is your only chance for a possible future at Qantas.
Whilst ever you are under PROTECTED industrial action they cannot sack you. Keep the work to rule, no OT on days off, pull up a chair and wait by the river bank.
It would be rather interesting then for anyone to step in for following Qantas' own rules and spending time with your families.
And have a job for 2 more years. We are dealing with vindictive pricks who will be after retribution when you aren't protected anymore. WAKE UP TO YOURSELF. This is your only chance for a possible future at Qantas.
Whilst ever you are under PROTECTED industrial action they cannot sack you. Keep the work to rule, no OT on days off, pull up a chair and wait by the river bank.
It would be rather interesting then for anyone to step in for following Qantas' own rules and spending time with your families.