Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
Sadly, workers united can always be defeated.
Qantas did it by first pandering to politicians and journalists with I-pads, bottles of Grange and family upgrades. Next, even while flying planes around Australia that were painted to look like Qantas but foreign registered and foreign crewed, the airline placed lots of full page advertisements bragging about a “New Spirit of Australia”. The purpose of the ads bemused punters but probably bought a little influence with media proprietors. Finally management just had to be more callus than a union at stranding the elderly in flood stricken Bangkok.
Then bingo; Qantas wins. Corporate greed trumps employees’ need. As always.
Fletcher Building chairman and Woolworths director Ralph Waters echoed
this, saying: "Why do some Qantas employees believe they are entitled to
a job security to which workers at car, appliance and steel plants, bank
back-officers, retailers exposed to online GST free trading and so many
more are not entitled? To bring a company to its knees in pursuit of
that, coupled with unsustainable pay increases, leaves management with
no option to the course they have taken."
this, saying: "Why do some Qantas employees believe they are entitled to
a job security to which workers at car, appliance and steel plants, bank
back-officers, retailers exposed to online GST free trading and so many
more are not entitled? To bring a company to its knees in pursuit of
that, coupled with unsustainable pay increases, leaves management with
no option to the course they have taken."
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Presumably he was referring to the unsustainable pay increases of the Executive team because I have only heard of 3-4% for the rest of the claims.
Where is the outrage at Joyce's package? Strangely silent on quantum and timing.
Oh well another Chairman's Lounge member.
This is like dealing with the mafia but atleast they had some principals to the way they operated.
Where is the outrage at Joyce's package? Strangely silent on quantum and timing.
Oh well another Chairman's Lounge member.
This is like dealing with the mafia but atleast they had some principals to the way they operated.
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Did you hear about the Irishman who walked into a bar full of Aussies in Sydney last night.
He said he wanted to shout the bar as he had experienced such a great week.
How's that said one of the Aussies.
Well says the Irishman I hardly know where to start, first of all I managed to give myself a 71% pay rise worth millions of dollars.
Wow said the Aussie.
That is not all though said the Irishman, I also managed to stop all the loyal workers who keep the Company running from getting ANY pay rise.
That does NOT seem very Australian says the Aussie.
Well lucky for me I am NOT an Aussie and do NOT care about them says the Irishman, anyway stop interupting while I am speaking, that is still NOT the best part.
I also managed to shut the Company down for 2 days causing havoc all over the World, AND I will soon be moving the Airline off shore to help pay for my pay rise.
What a week says the Irishman.
What an a$$hole said all the Aussies.
PS. This is NOT an Irish joke.
He said he wanted to shout the bar as he had experienced such a great week.
How's that said one of the Aussies.
Well says the Irishman I hardly know where to start, first of all I managed to give myself a 71% pay rise worth millions of dollars.
Wow said the Aussie.
That is not all though said the Irishman, I also managed to stop all the loyal workers who keep the Company running from getting ANY pay rise.
That does NOT seem very Australian says the Aussie.
Well lucky for me I am NOT an Aussie and do NOT care about them says the Irishman, anyway stop interupting while I am speaking, that is still NOT the best part.
I also managed to shut the Company down for 2 days causing havoc all over the World, AND I will soon be moving the Airline off shore to help pay for my pay rise.
What a week says the Irishman.
What an a$$hole said all the Aussies.
PS. This is NOT an Irish joke.
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Just watching Gillard, Evans and Albanese on the idiot box. AJ has made no friends there.
NOT BLOODY LIKELY .
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interesting story on the qf problems at
Flight path of an airline in crisis - Today Tonight - Yahoo!7 News
qantas lame earns $53,700 - $113,500 seeking a 3% increase
virgin lame earns $141,000
so joyces average qf lame earns $170,000 deception is busted
Flight path of an airline in crisis - Today Tonight - Yahoo!7 News
qantas lame earns $53,700 - $113,500 seeking a 3% increase
virgin lame earns $141,000
so joyces average qf lame earns $170,000 deception is busted
Last edited by buttmonkey1; 31st Oct 2011 at 13:23.
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buttmonkey 1
OMFG have we done this to death.......look guys we have run and we have lost[maybe not a complete loss]but we were done over...lets move forward and see what we can do from here...gee I sound like a QF manager...I am not...but lets not lose sight of what we can salvage,as I said before we need to tread very carefully.......and dont start posting "watching the bodies floating past" because they are most likely OURS ....
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Joyce's grand plan unravelling
From The Australian 31/10/11.
Maybe the Union busting tactics that AJ and LC have been planning for so long aren't going as perfectly as they thought!
Maybe we still have a few Aces up our sleeve yet to be played during the next 21 days!
RATINGS agency Standard & Poor's today downgraded Qantas's outlook to negative from stable, citing the threat to its reputation posed by industrial turmoil.
The agency's move follows Qantas's dramatic step on Saturday to ground its entire fleet due to industrial action, and Fair Work Australia's ruling early today preventing further stoppages and ordering Qantas to drop its plans to lock out its workforce.
While Qantas began flying again today, the parties in the dispute have been given 21 days to resolve their differences and one union, the Transport Workers Union, says its may appeal the FWA ruling.
S&P credit analyst Danielle Kremzer: “The outlook revision reflects our view of the uncertainty concerning the severity of the negative impact on Qantas following the protracted industrial relations dispute.”
“We believe that the current industrial relations dispute is more severe than we originally anticipated,” the company said.
"In our view, the industrial relations dispute presents possible downside risk to the rating, given the potential for ongoing negative reputational damage to the airline, and more importantly, the potential impact on the airline's market position as a result of customer reaction or competitor response.
S&P added: “Further, Qantas' relationship with employees or unions, if not improved, we believe raises uncertainty over Qantas' cost structure over time.
The ratings agency said Qantas's industrial troubles also came at a time when the airline industry faced the challenges of a slowing global economy and still-high fuel prices.
The agency's move follows Qantas's dramatic step on Saturday to ground its entire fleet due to industrial action, and Fair Work Australia's ruling early today preventing further stoppages and ordering Qantas to drop its plans to lock out its workforce.
While Qantas began flying again today, the parties in the dispute have been given 21 days to resolve their differences and one union, the Transport Workers Union, says its may appeal the FWA ruling.
S&P credit analyst Danielle Kremzer: “The outlook revision reflects our view of the uncertainty concerning the severity of the negative impact on Qantas following the protracted industrial relations dispute.”
“We believe that the current industrial relations dispute is more severe than we originally anticipated,” the company said.
"In our view, the industrial relations dispute presents possible downside risk to the rating, given the potential for ongoing negative reputational damage to the airline, and more importantly, the potential impact on the airline's market position as a result of customer reaction or competitor response.
S&P added: “Further, Qantas' relationship with employees or unions, if not improved, we believe raises uncertainty over Qantas' cost structure over time.
The ratings agency said Qantas's industrial troubles also came at a time when the airline industry faced the challenges of a slowing global economy and still-high fuel prices.
Maybe we still have a few Aces up our sleeve yet to be played during the next 21 days!
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Got to love the amount of arm chair experts coming out of the woodwork now , conveniently armed with all the facts and financial details which seem to mirror the qantas media releases....
There is never any mention of Virgin, which is an Aussie based company, having any issue with wage levels in a " global" market.
Also omitted was Jetstar LAME pay.. What was it... $105000 for holding an A320 rating as an entry level lame compared to 53700 for a qantas entry level?
Had to laugh at how many of the public called us greedy... The boss is gonna be on 96,000 per week.... Up from 57,700. He makes in 1 week what I make in a year. And I'm the greedy one wanting 3 percent?
It's open season on anything qantas....
There is never any mention of Virgin, which is an Aussie based company, having any issue with wage levels in a " global" market.
Also omitted was Jetstar LAME pay.. What was it... $105000 for holding an A320 rating as an entry level lame compared to 53700 for a qantas entry level?
Had to laugh at how many of the public called us greedy... The boss is gonna be on 96,000 per week.... Up from 57,700. He makes in 1 week what I make in a year. And I'm the greedy one wanting 3 percent?
It's open season on anything qantas....
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Saw AJ on TV today saying that now FWA have made their ruling, relationships between company and employees will be much better.
I must say I'm glad he didn't go into marriage counselling, as he would probably advise belting the crap out of your missus if her opinion differs to yours. If that didn't work he would probably advise putting in the boot. We will never forget what you have done to Qantas while trying to place the blame on us.
Most of the engineers have been in this company much longer than any of the board. One day you will all just be a glitch in the proud history of Qantas, an airline founded by pilots and engineers.
I must say I'm glad he didn't go into marriage counselling, as he would probably advise belting the crap out of your missus if her opinion differs to yours. If that didn't work he would probably advise putting in the boot. We will never forget what you have done to Qantas while trying to place the blame on us.
Most of the engineers have been in this company much longer than any of the board. One day you will all just be a glitch in the proud history of Qantas, an airline founded by pilots and engineers.
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Could 2GB please comment on this FACT (follow link below) by spreading misleading comments around these facts and misleading the older generation who do not use the Internet . These old folk rely on talk back radio for honest opinion. Poor old biddies now thinking that backing Joycey will save Qantas & Australian jobs. Wrong wrong wrong.
Shame shame shame.
Stop the cr@p that qantas was grounded because of industrial action, Alan Joyce grounded the airline because he thought Qantas pilots would crash their aircraft because they were stressed about what qantas management had not even done yet!!! ie ground the fleet (well that is what he said, we all know he is just pissed of with LAMEs & Pilots, it is a personal fight for them) .... without informing the Julia or ASX, Shane shame shame.
Please look here, interesting story on the qf problems at
Flight path of an airline in crisis - Today Tonight - Yahoo!7 News
Must be true it is on TV.
Shame shame shame.
To reiterate.
Qantas lame Starts on $53,700 seeking only CPI 3% increase that most unions have already signed off on.
Virgin lame earns about $141,000
Jetstar LAME starts on $110,000
QantasLink LAME start on $115,000
.
Shame shame shame.
Stop the cr@p that qantas was grounded because of industrial action, Alan Joyce grounded the airline because he thought Qantas pilots would crash their aircraft because they were stressed about what qantas management had not even done yet!!! ie ground the fleet (well that is what he said, we all know he is just pissed of with LAMEs & Pilots, it is a personal fight for them) .... without informing the Julia or ASX, Shane shame shame.
Please look here, interesting story on the qf problems at
Flight path of an airline in crisis - Today Tonight - Yahoo!7 News
Must be true it is on TV.
Shame shame shame.
To reiterate.
Qantas lame Starts on $53,700 seeking only CPI 3% increase that most unions have already signed off on.
Virgin lame earns about $141,000
Jetstar LAME starts on $110,000
QantasLink LAME start on $115,000
.
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 31st Oct 2011 at 17:55.
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I would not give up just yet, there are many Politicians getting involved now, and most of the travelling public now know who is to blame.
Just been watching the 7PM Report (actually the Report from tonight on), the poll on their web site tonight is ''who do you blame for the mess at Qantas'', currently running at 76% AJ, 20% Unions and 4% Government.
Just been watching the 7PM Report (actually the Report from tonight on), the poll on their web site tonight is ''who do you blame for the mess at Qantas'', currently running at 76% AJ, 20% Unions and 4% Government.
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PIA S**bs
Never been so proud to be a ALAEA union member 
I wonder how those that resigned from the union during the last PIA, and assisted the company, felt when they were told they would be locked out just like those nasty unionists.
I wonder how those that resigned from the union during the last PIA, and assisted the company, felt when they were told they would be locked out just like those nasty unionists.
Thread Starter
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Heard a good comment tonight that I believe sums up this situation well.
In Vietnam, America was by far the greater military power and won all the major battles they fought in.........Yet they lost the war.
If AJ and LC are congratulating each other in victory tonight, they ought to quickly remember that there are a lot of disenchanted staff working for them that they had better engage fast. Else they may well see plenty more market share leave for the competition.
Pretty sure that's never conducive to obtaining performance based bonuses....
In Vietnam, America was by far the greater military power and won all the major battles they fought in.........Yet they lost the war.
If AJ and LC are congratulating each other in victory tonight, they ought to quickly remember that there are a lot of disenchanted staff working for them that they had better engage fast. Else they may well see plenty more market share leave for the competition.
Pretty sure that's never conducive to obtaining performance based bonuses....
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Whos idea was it!
So was AJ the mastermind behind the coup de ta or just following a script?
Chairman of Qantas Leigh Clifford has been down this road several times before, Director Garry Hounsell is also a board member of Freehills.
Was the fix in at board level before the edict was handed down to the boss to pull the plug?
Who really has their hands on the levers at Qantas and which way are they being pulled?
Chairman of Qantas Leigh Clifford has been down this road several times before, Director Garry Hounsell is also a board member of Freehills.
Was the fix in at board level before the edict was handed down to the boss to pull the plug?
Who really has their hands on the levers at Qantas and which way are they being pulled?
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If AJ and LC are congratulating each other in victory tonight, they ought to quickly remember that there are a lot of disenchanted staff working for them that they had better engage fast.
As for all of those disenchanted staff, I think that number will soon reduce to a more sustainable quantity.
MP
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LAME wages
SHORT CIRCUIT
To reiterate.
1. Qantas lame Starts on $53,700 seeking only CPI 3% increase that most unions have already signed off on.
2. Virgin lame earns about $141,000
3. Jetstar LAME starts on $110,000
4. QantasLink LAME start on $115,000
What we need are facts, and what is stated above is not entirely factual, here are the facts.
1. QANTAS LAME starting point @ JAN 1 2010
To reiterate.
1. Qantas lame Starts on $53,700 seeking only CPI 3% increase that most unions have already signed off on.
2. Virgin lame earns about $141,000
3. Jetstar LAME starts on $110,000
4. QantasLink LAME start on $115,000
What we need are facts, and what is stated above is not entirely factual, here are the facts.
1. QANTAS LAME starting point @ JAN 1 2010
Entry Point
Non-Group 20/21- Level 1 $53,726 PA
Group 20/21 Non-Company type with
Group 20/21 Non-Company type with
less
than 12 months experience -Level 2 $57,717 PA
Group 20/21 Non-Company type with more
Group 20/21 Non-Company type with more
than 12 months experience -Level 3 $59,044 PA
1st Company Aircraft Rating -
Level 4 $63,474 PA
2 type ratings aproximately $67910 PA
Lots of aircraft types and years of experience can result in a higher
grade such as Level 15 $113,602 PA
In addition shift penalties, holiday loading, travel allowances etc are paid
2. VIRGIN LAME
B1 or B2 or E,I & R on 2 aircraft $141,000 PA
Includes all shift penalties, holiday loading and travel allowance etc
3. JETSTAR LAME
Mech / AV on 1 type $110,000 PA
Add about $5000 for second type( I think) $115,000 PA
Includes all shift penalties, holiday loading and travel allowance etc
4. QANTASLINK LAME
Non-Group 20/21- Level 1 $53,304 PA
Single category on Group 20/21-Level 2 $58,027 PA
2 categories on 2 aircraft - Level 3A $66,883 PA
3 categories on 3 aircraft types -Level 4C $80,505 PA
In addition shift penalties, holiday loading, travel allowances etc are paid These figures are for the LAME"s based in Brisbane & Tamworth who have not had a payrise since July 2009.
So to give a fair comparison the following amounts would be an estimate for a LAME with 2 categories on 2 aircraft doing a 4 on/ 4 off shift with no OT.
1. QANTAS LAME $98,470
2. VIRGIN LAME $141,000
3. JETSTAR LAME $115,000
4. QANTASLINK LAME $96,980
Of course a LAME at QANTAS or LINK may only have single category on 1 aircraft working days and earlies Mon to Friday and would get paid substantially less than an equivilent LAME at the 2 LCC.
Happy to discuss this,
regards
ausmastiff
2 type ratings aproximately $67910 PA
Lots of aircraft types and years of experience can result in a higher
grade such as Level 15 $113,602 PA
In addition shift penalties, holiday loading, travel allowances etc are paid
2. VIRGIN LAME
B1 or B2 or E,I & R on 2 aircraft $141,000 PA
Includes all shift penalties, holiday loading and travel allowance etc
3. JETSTAR LAME
Mech / AV on 1 type $110,000 PA
Add about $5000 for second type( I think) $115,000 PA
Includes all shift penalties, holiday loading and travel allowance etc
4. QANTASLINK LAME
Non-Group 20/21- Level 1 $53,304 PA
Single category on Group 20/21-Level 2 $58,027 PA
2 categories on 2 aircraft - Level 3A $66,883 PA
3 categories on 3 aircraft types -Level 4C $80,505 PA
In addition shift penalties, holiday loading, travel allowances etc are paid These figures are for the LAME"s based in Brisbane & Tamworth who have not had a payrise since July 2009.
So to give a fair comparison the following amounts would be an estimate for a LAME with 2 categories on 2 aircraft doing a 4 on/ 4 off shift with no OT.
1. QANTAS LAME $98,470
2. VIRGIN LAME $141,000
3. JETSTAR LAME $115,000
4. QANTASLINK LAME $96,980
Of course a LAME at QANTAS or LINK may only have single category on 1 aircraft working days and earlies Mon to Friday and would get paid substantially less than an equivilent LAME at the 2 LCC.
Happy to discuss this,
regards
ausmastiff