What are your pet hate non-standard phraseologies?
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: SE England
Tower to a/c on first contact (inbound) : 'ABC123 continue approach"
Tower to a/c taxing to hold, after being cleared to hold by ground: "ABC123 continue to the hold" !!!
Talk about tits on a bull!!!!!!!!!!!
Tower to a/c taxing to hold, after being cleared to hold by ground: "ABC123 continue to the hold" !!!
Talk about tits on a bull!!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 0
From: Euroland
LIKLIK
I can't copy the ref. for this but CAP493 appendix E p9 specifies:-
Pilot readback of RTF messages
SSR operating instructions
Controllers are to prompt a pilot if a readback is not immediately forthcoming
Also in CAP 413 RT Manual (for pilots and ATC)
I can't copy the ref. for this but CAP493 appendix E p9 specifies:-
Pilot readback of RTF messages
SSR operating instructions
Controllers are to prompt a pilot if a readback is not immediately forthcoming
Also in CAP 413 RT Manual (for pilots and ATC)
However, Both the ICAO R/T manual and the local UK CAP 413 require either a readback or an acknowledgement of an instruction to squawk ident.
Regards,
DFC
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: In Denial
same old same old, long time reader... etc. But I just HAD to add my two cents to this thread...
I'm surprised it hasn't been posted already but...
ATC: "ABC123 standby"
ABC123: "Copied, we'll stand by"
In frustration with one particular repeat offender I added
"ABC123 standby, I'll call you back"
to which he responds quite casually
"Okay, copied. We'll standby and wait for your call shortly..."
I'm surprised it hasn't been posted already but...
ATC: "ABC123 standby"
ABC123: "Copied, we'll stand by"
In frustration with one particular repeat offender I added
"ABC123 standby, I'll call you back"
to which he responds quite casually
"Okay, copied. We'll standby and wait for your call shortly..."
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: world citizen
In frustration with one particular repeat offender I added
"ABC123 standby, I'll call you back"
to which he responds quite casually
"Okay, copied. We'll standby and wait for your call shortly..."
"ABC123 standby, I'll call you back"
to which he responds quite casually
"Okay, copied. We'll standby and wait for your call shortly..."
Boy u must be busy! I present you this tool: "ABC123 standby, BREAK, ABC234 cleared whatever...."
PPRuNe supporter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,676
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
I have to say, the majority of RT 'hates' posted on here don't bother me in the slightest, however, after giving tfc info, 'Got him on TCAS' does irritate as there is nothing ATC can do with that info. If you are not visual, it doesn't count. I am sure there is plenty that we do that irritate pilots too. A lot of it is down to not understanding why it HAS to be said and that applies to both sides.
Approaching level....
We have him on TCAS...
Charlie, charlie...
Fully ready...
If available...
Bye...Germany?
Blocked...USA
Track shortening...HKG
Pass your message?? UK
On the good side, US pilots DO make turbulence reports, in Asia, such reports nonexistent.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Over Graz
Foghorn, we hear a lot of these "blocked" things in India and in the Middle East, where pilots change frequencies, press the mike, and fire the message. No listening or regard for whoever might be talking to the controller at that moment.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
From: Silicon Hills
I dunno, I think a bunch of you folks would go absolutely nutty listening to a typical weekend's chatter in the States. Standard phraseology, Whazzat???
"We have 'em on TCAS/Fishfinder" etc. -- Useless, please look away from the screen and out the window, let me know when you SEE the traffic.
Lately, every other turbine aircraft seems to need to tell me they will be ready at the end when they're still a half mile from the end on the taxiway. No kidding, you got both engines running?
When changing freqs, LISTEN 15 seconds, then speak if appropriate.
If you hear me say "Nxxx, #4 standby", now is NOT a good time to ask for a shortcut. Your wish is suddenly on the very bottom of my "to do" list;
in very small print
"We have 'em on TCAS/Fishfinder" etc. -- Useless, please look away from the screen and out the window, let me know when you SEE the traffic.
Lately, every other turbine aircraft seems to need to tell me they will be ready at the end when they're still a half mile from the end on the taxiway. No kidding, you got both engines running?
When changing freqs, LISTEN 15 seconds, then speak if appropriate.
If you hear me say "Nxxx, #4 standby", now is NOT a good time to ask for a shortcut. Your wish is suddenly on the very bottom of my "to do" list;
in very small print
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 964
Likes: 43
From: 30 West
And another one...........
Inbound MAN, Shannon says - descend now, be level FL270, 10 miles before LIFFY.
Has the already low block standing agreement changed again ?
We will be level at LIFFY, we do not wish to squander another 200kgs of fuel being level 10 miles before LIFFY thankyou
Inbound MAN, Shannon says - descend now, be level FL270, 10 miles before LIFFY.
Has the already low block standing agreement changed again ?
We will be level at LIFFY, we do not wish to squander another 200kgs of fuel being level 10 miles before LIFFY thankyou
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Swanwick
thats a dangerous game to be playing javelin...
what if the level restriction is for seperation?? what if the shannon controller has another aircraft behind/in front that relies on that 10 miles before liffey?? Level restrictions aren't given just to piss you pilots off... they are given for a reason, normally a very good one!! someday you're attitude to them may bite you in the proverbial a**...
what if the level restriction is for seperation?? what if the shannon controller has another aircraft behind/in front that relies on that 10 miles before liffey?? Level restrictions aren't given just to piss you pilots off... they are given for a reason, normally a very good one!! someday you're attitude to them may bite you in the proverbial a**...
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
From: Polymer Records
"Morning Ground, Callsign, B737, Stand x, information y, QNH, request clearance"
"Cleared to etc. information y, QNH"
"Cleared to, information y, QNH"
20 seconds later
"Callsign, request push and start""
"Callsign, say again stand number"
"Callsign, stand x"
"Callsign, push and start approved, information y, QNH"
"Callsign, push and start approved, information y, QNH"
I guess its all standard but just how many times do we need to tell ATC that we have the
ATIS and QNH? The words Polly and Parrot sometimes comes to mind!
"Cleared to etc. information y, QNH"
"Cleared to, information y, QNH"
20 seconds later
"Callsign, request push and start""
"Callsign, say again stand number"
"Callsign, stand x"
"Callsign, push and start approved, information y, QNH"
"Callsign, push and start approved, information y, QNH"
I guess its all standard but just how many times do we need to tell ATC that we have the
ATIS and QNH? The words Polly and Parrot sometimes comes to mind!
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Javelin that is an absolutely disgraceful attitude which is an admission of a direct compromise of flight safety on your part.
I would like to re-assure controllers that such scoffing at a clear ATC instruction with intended non-compliance is extremely rare in my experience.
I would like to re-assure controllers that such scoffing at a clear ATC instruction with intended non-compliance is extremely rare in my experience.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 551
From: TOD
Me: " AAA Control, ABC123 FL120 H220 degrees"
ATC: "ABC123 good morning, turn right ten degrees, report new heading"
Errr what's that all about, does it just slip out due to habit or is it some kind of SOP?
ATC: "ABC123 good morning, turn right ten degrees, report new heading"
Errr what's that all about, does it just slip out due to habit or is it some kind of SOP?
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Artie Fufkin wrote:
Turning that on its head....
Very recently, aircraft called for clearance, acknowledged the current ATIS gave me the correct QNH which I noted. When the crew later called for taxy, (no change in either runway or QNH) I said "Taxy to Holding Point XX" reply was "Taxy to Holding Point XX, errr err err Runway YY, QNH zzzz" - Reading back things not said!
DD
I guess its all standard but just how many times do we need to tell ATC that we have the ATIS and QNH? The words Polly and Parrot sometimes comes to mind!
ATIS and QNH? The words Polly and Parrot sometimes comes to mind!
Very recently, aircraft called for clearance, acknowledged the current ATIS gave me the correct QNH which I noted. When the crew later called for taxy, (no change in either runway or QNH) I said "Taxy to Holding Point XX" reply was "Taxy to Holding Point XX, errr err err Runway YY, QNH zzzz" - Reading back things not said!
DD
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 1
From: Egcc
Let's not forget that standard phraseology for an ATCer is just that. For a pilot standard phraseology changes depending on where in the world he happens to be! I am all for as standard as possible, but we do hear variances even at different UK airfields, let alone what we hear once we have left these hallowed shores. Just a point in our defence!
PP
PP
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Brisbane
Visual on top
To issue a VSA I need to hear "visual" as in "can maintain continuous visual reference to the ground or water etc..." "Visual on top" is so frustrating - can't give you anything based on that cobber!
But USA military pilots definitely get my vote for bizarre RT:
"Comin' at ya, abeam the numbers, good gear, goin' nowhere" (Southern drawl)
Heard it 14 years ago on my first TWR rating, can still hear it plain as anything. For a minute there, I wasn't even sure it was English, then my supervisor managed to stop laughing long enough to say "base, 3 greens, full stop". Guess I haven't watched Top Gun enough.....
But USA military pilots definitely get my vote for bizarre RT:
"Comin' at ya, abeam the numbers, good gear, goin' nowhere" (Southern drawl)
Heard it 14 years ago on my first TWR rating, can still hear it plain as anything. For a minute there, I wasn't even sure it was English, then my supervisor managed to stop laughing long enough to say "base, 3 greens, full stop". Guess I haven't watched Top Gun enough.....
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 0
From: Euroland
And another one...........
Inbound MAN, Shannon says - descend now, be level FL270, 10 miles before LIFFY.
Has the already low block standing agreement changed again ?
We will be level at LIFFY, we do not wish to squander another 200kgs of fuel being level 10 miles before LIFFY thankyou
Inbound MAN, Shannon says - descend now, be level FL270, 10 miles before LIFFY.
Has the already low block standing agreement changed again ?
We will be level at LIFFY, we do not wish to squander another 200kgs of fuel being level 10 miles before LIFFY thankyou
How much fuel does that cost?
Can't believe that someone would not comply with a clearance without telling ATC first.
Regards,
DFC
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 964
Likes: 43
From: 30 West
I thought I would wait a while........ I asked the fine gent in Shannon why 10 before. He said that sometimes aeroplanes didn't make the restriction and he prefered to hand traffic to MAN level. The remark about the BSA is my question, not a reply on air.
I agree, we sometimes get early descent to avoid conflict, but usually we have already spotted this on TCAS and also by being observant as to who is who coming off the ocean. In this case, I normally offer a level change to help.
While the BSA's work in reducing holding at destination, all I ask is for some consistency. If it's 10 before, publish it, let's not make it a restriction on the whim of a controller
Out of work, I sit on an airspace group to help coordinate ATC and GA aircraft. I also do Fam Flights for ATC so really, I do my bit to help !
I agree, we sometimes get early descent to avoid conflict, but usually we have already spotted this on TCAS and also by being observant as to who is who coming off the ocean. In this case, I normally offer a level change to help.
While the BSA's work in reducing holding at destination, all I ask is for some consistency. If it's 10 before, publish it, let's not make it a restriction on the whim of a controller
Out of work, I sit on an airspace group to help coordinate ATC and GA aircraft. I also do Fam Flights for ATC so really, I do my bit to help !