What are your pet hate non-standard phraseologies?
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
My clearance today (given whilst lined up and in the same transmission as my take off clearance) began:
"Remain outside controlled airspace".
I was already in controlled airspace........
"Remain outside controlled airspace".
I was already in controlled airspace........
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Belgium
"ABC123 descend Flight Level two seven zero"
"Roger, descending two seven zero ABC123 "
"ABC123 confirm thats FLIGHT LEVEL two seven zero"
"I say again we are descending two seven zero ABC123"
etc etc etc..........
"Roger, descending two seven zero ABC123 "
"ABC123 confirm thats FLIGHT LEVEL two seven zero"
"I say again we are descending two seven zero ABC123"
etc etc etc..........
Pardoned PPRuNer
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: GlassGumtree
"ABC123 descend Flight Level two seven zero"
"Roger, descending two seven zero ABC123 "
"ABC123 confirm thats FLIGHT LEVEL two seven zero"
"I say again we are descending two seven zero ABC123"
etc etc etc..........
"Roger, descending two seven zero ABC123 "
"ABC123 confirm thats FLIGHT LEVEL two seven zero"
"I say again we are descending two seven zero ABC123"
etc etc etc..........
"ABC123 descend to Flight Level Two Seven Zero"
Lets just add another to (two) in there....
TT
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: ---
Maybe it is hard to grasp, but what is not required at one airport, is required at the other. So just sometimes it happens you do or do not mention something because it is out of the ordinary. As well some calls are techniques which proved to be clear in most of the world. Therefore, when you have crews who fly worldwide making a call which works with 98% of ATC worldwide, please don't be annoyed by this. It is not bad will, simply at some stage you are forced so often to phrase non-standard just to a have clear and therefore more safe operation that when you fly in an area where CAP is the standard you kind of lose what is called standard.
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: on safari
Not all countries are the same, in the land of touques and poteen just establishing two way comms allows aircraft to enter controlled airspace.
I sure hope pilots in the land of poteen don't believe this to be the case.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Farnborough
My pet hate is giving a pilot a frequency change instruction, which is immediately followed by someone else calling for something. (Not an emergency!)
Typically when I re-iterate to the first pilot his instruction, he has already left the frequency, so everyone else gets delayed whilst I check he has arrived with the new sector.
This is a rampant issue for GA pilots in receipt of a LARS service.
Typically when I re-iterate to the first pilot his instruction, he has already left the frequency, so everyone else gets delayed whilst I check he has arrived with the new sector.
This is a rampant issue for GA pilots in receipt of a LARS service.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 624
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From: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
"Request start in accordance with our slot".
WTF does that mean!
Giving a pilot a clearance and before he reads it ack another aircraft requests his clearance. Listen before transmitting please !!!!!
WTF does that mean!
Giving a pilot a clearance and before he reads it ack another aircraft requests his clearance. Listen before transmitting please !!!!!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 111
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From: USA
For everybody that is annoyed by us american pilots whining about ride reports and light chops while flying in the CONUS. I'm going to try to shed some light here...
Most domestic operations in the US, suffice their wx info pakcet requirements with giving us only the TAF/METARS of DEP,DEST,ALTN and AREA airports... nobody here gets a nice SIGWX chart or any other chart for that matter.
Some of us have turb plot messages but for the most part no charts at all.
Thats why the constant questioning about ride reports.... we really dont have the info in the cockpit.
Most domestic operations in the US, suffice their wx info pakcet requirements with giving us only the TAF/METARS of DEP,DEST,ALTN and AREA airports... nobody here gets a nice SIGWX chart or any other chart for that matter.
Some of us have turb plot messages but for the most part no charts at all.
Thats why the constant questioning about ride reports.... we really dont have the info in the cockpit.
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: The World, although sometimes I wonder
Tower to a/c on first contact (inbound) : 'ABC123 continue approach"
Tower to a/c taxing to hold, after being cleared to hold by ground: "ABC123 continue to the hold" !!!
Talk about tits on a bull!!!!!!!!!!!
Tower to a/c taxing to hold, after being cleared to hold by ground: "ABC123 continue to the hold" !!!
Talk about tits on a bull!!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Maastricht, NL
downwindabeam: you might wanna have a look at http://euro.wx.propilots.net if you're looking for SIGMETs and stuffs like that...
As for the subject of the topic, my pet hate is:
ATC: callsign, contact London xxx.xxx
Pilot: bye
As for the subject of the topic, my pet hate is:
ATC: callsign, contact London xxx.xxx
Pilot: bye
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
[QUOTE]Kiltie....
What do you expect?......perfectly acceptable!!!!!!
I was under the impression that transponder operating instructions were required to be readback in full.
Originally Posted by ATC: "(callsign) squawk ident."
Pilot: SILENCE [/quote
Pilot: SILENCE [/quote
What do you expect?......perfectly acceptable!!!!!!
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Scotland
Likewise. Can anyone show any get-out-clause printed in MATS or CAP413? I certainly can't.
How would you otherwise know that the correct callsign knows to squawk ident and someone else hasn't taken the instruction in error?
How would you otherwise know that the correct callsign knows to squawk ident and someone else hasn't taken the instruction in error?
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Hants
I'm with Kiltie on this one... Not replying to a "squawk ident" instruction is plain rude if nothing else... especially as 9 times out of 10 it is issued as a first exchange of transmissions between a radar unit and an aircraft.
I'd like to get a verbal response as well as the actual physical response to let me know you have heard me and we have two way comms.
Any pilot that claims they are too busy to read back the instruction should not be flying!!
I'd like to get a verbal response as well as the actual physical response to let me know you have heard me and we have two way comms.
Any pilot that claims they are too busy to read back the instruction should not be flying!!
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Crapaud land
Originally Posted by ATC: "(callsign) squawk ident."[/I
Pilot: SILENCE
What do you expect?......perfectly acceptable!!!!!!
[/quote]
LIKLIK
I can't copy the ref. for this but CAP493 appendix E p9 specifies:-
Pilot readback of RTF messages
SSR operating instructions
Controllers are to prompt a pilot if a readback is not immediately forthcoming
Also in CAP 413 RT Manual (for pilots and ATC)
Last edited by GunkyTom; 17th March 2008 at 20:17.
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Oxfordshire
Is it really that bad to say you are "ready for departure in turn" when at the hold and ready for departure behind other aircraft?
It may not be CAP413 standard phraseology but at least you're letting ATC know that you're aware of the other aircraft waiting and not trying to jump the queue?
I think we use it more at my home airfield as the FIS guy sometimes gets shirty if we just say "ready for departure" when there are other aircraft waiting at the hold. Maybe I should adjust my language and suffer the wrath..?
It may not be CAP413 standard phraseology but at least you're letting ATC know that you're aware of the other aircraft waiting and not trying to jump the queue?
I think we use it more at my home airfield as the FIS guy sometimes gets shirty if we just say "ready for departure" when there are other aircraft waiting at the hold. Maybe I should adjust my language and suffer the wrath..?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 75
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From: Crapaud land
I have to say, the majority of RT 'hates' posted on here don't bother me in the slightest, however, after giving tfc info, 'Got him on TCAS' does irritate as there is nothing ATC can do with that info. If you are not visual, it doesn't count. I am sure there is plenty that we do that irritate pilots too. A lot of it is down to not understanding why it HAS to be said and that applies to both sides.