What are your pet hate non-standard phraseologies?
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: southampton
It is specific only to NATS controllers to add "degrees" to headings ending in a five
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Brisbane
Capt Claret
sorry, missed your question til now.
yep, that's part of the area we look after. She is one of the global recruits, overseas she worked radar in 100 square miles of airspace with one frequency (mostly approach type) - So Airservices in their infinite wisdom have placed her in my airspace - mostly procedural, 1400 miles from top to bottom, with 13 frequencies to look after.
sorry, missed your question til now.
yep, that's part of the area we look after. She is one of the global recruits, overseas she worked radar in 100 square miles of airspace with one frequency (mostly approach type) - So Airservices in their infinite wisdom have placed her in my airspace - mostly procedural, 1400 miles from top to bottom, with 13 frequencies to look after.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Sweden
circuits
And when right-hand is the standard do you switch it around?
Secondly would you expect all the pilots around you to be of the same opinion as yourself in this issue?
Personally I don´t mind people reporting both left and right as long as they say the correct one
. Not taking much freq-time and always unambiguous.
(Note the fancy word in the end, guess you spell it like this)
Just my opinion
Secondly would you expect all the pilots around you to be of the same opinion as yourself in this issue?
Personally I don´t mind people reporting both left and right as long as they say the correct one
. Not taking much freq-time and always unambiguous. (Note the fancy word in the end, guess you spell it like this)
Just my opinion
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From: UK
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Ask Screwing..
London Control to American pilot....
"American XXX turn left 15 degrees and report the heading."
No response.
"American XXX turn left 15 degrees and report the heading."
No response.
"American XXX London control, turn left 15 degrees and report the new heading!!"
"Errrrrrr Just trying to get you a reallllllll accurate one here.... Errrrr heading 1....4....3"
"ATC- (Laugh) yea thanks!"
You just gotta love em!
"American XXX turn left 15 degrees and report the heading."
No response.
"American XXX turn left 15 degrees and report the heading."
No response.
"American XXX London control, turn left 15 degrees and report the new heading!!"
"Errrrrrr Just trying to get you a reallllllll accurate one here.... Errrrr heading 1....4....3"
"ATC- (Laugh) yea thanks!"
You just gotta love em!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 309
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From: Living In The Past
@ A32Oriental
Quote: "2 circuits at the same time...... are you kidding me?? "
More to the point, are you kidding us ?
As John McEnroe said, "you cannot be serious ?" I assume you are not an ATCO in the UK then ?
Quote: "2 circuits at the same time...... are you kidding me?? "
More to the point, are you kidding us ?
As John McEnroe said, "you cannot be serious ?" I assume you are not an ATCO in the UK then ?
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
2 circuits at the same time...... are you kidding me??
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,174
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From: South of England
Downwind or base is always left, only include 'right' when its a non standard right hand circuit!!
The rule is straightforward. When the standard circuit is right hand you always add 'right'.
Yes, pilots should be aware of this. It's in the manuals, should be in yours too.
2 circuits at the same time...... are you kidding me??
Yes, pilots should be aware of this. It's in the manuals, should be in yours too.
2 circuits at the same time...... are you kidding me??
It's not a "rule", it's an RTF procedure, as described in the ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony...
"When the traffic circuit is in a right-hand pattern this should be specified. A left-hand pattern need not be specified although it may be advisable to do so if there has been a recent change where the circuit direction is variable".
2 s
Spink Pots
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Up in the air
"ABC123 report YOUR heading to London...."
With a big emphasis on "your". I mean seriously, who else's heading is the pilot going to report?
"ABC123 turn left 10 degrees and report the new heading"
As opposed to the old heading?
"ABC123 stop climb initially FL90"
Usually said when the controller has made a mistake or the traffic scenario changes and needs to stop the aircraft off. I can see the logic of using "initially" when aircraft are in the region of cruise levels and get stopped off after being cleared to cruise but in a TMA environment? It sounds silly.
Or my pet hate...
"ABC123 can you just stop your climb FL90 please?"
Again, said when the controller has cocked up. As if they ask nicely it won't look so bad. Trainees have a habit of doing this. I've seen the point hammered home in reports where "[Trainees name], can you just do the job properly and use standard phraseology please?" has been written
And I witnessed a trainee perform the following exchange which made me cringe.
"Thai XXX, expect a couple of spins at XYZ, bring back the speed now"
"Say again"
"Thai XXX expect a couple of spins at XYZ bring back your speed"
"Thai XXX not understand, say again"
Trainee now getting a bit irate... "Thai XXX, bring back the speed, you're going to hold!!"
Long pause....
I take the RT.
"Thai XXX hold at XYZ, reduce to minimum clean speed"
"Hold at XYZ reduce minimum clean, Thai XXX"
I think it got the point across? The trouble is that the trainee had been using the same phraseology for well over 100 hours of training and nobody had picked him/her up on it!
With a big emphasis on "your". I mean seriously, who else's heading is the pilot going to report?
"ABC123 turn left 10 degrees and report the new heading"
As opposed to the old heading?
"ABC123 stop climb initially FL90"
Usually said when the controller has made a mistake or the traffic scenario changes and needs to stop the aircraft off. I can see the logic of using "initially" when aircraft are in the region of cruise levels and get stopped off after being cleared to cruise but in a TMA environment? It sounds silly.
Or my pet hate...
"ABC123 can you just stop your climb FL90 please?"
Again, said when the controller has cocked up. As if they ask nicely it won't look so bad. Trainees have a habit of doing this. I've seen the point hammered home in reports where "[Trainees name], can you just do the job properly and use standard phraseology please?" has been written
And I witnessed a trainee perform the following exchange which made me cringe.
"Thai XXX, expect a couple of spins at XYZ, bring back the speed now"
"Say again"
"Thai XXX expect a couple of spins at XYZ bring back your speed"
"Thai XXX not understand, say again"
Trainee now getting a bit irate... "Thai XXX, bring back the speed, you're going to hold!!"
Long pause....
I take the RT.
"Thai XXX hold at XYZ, reduce to minimum clean speed"
"Hold at XYZ reduce minimum clean, Thai XXX"
I think it got the point across? The trouble is that the trainee had been using the same phraseology for well over 100 hours of training and nobody had picked him/her up on it!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 395
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From: On a foreign shore trying a new wine diet. So far, I've lost 3days!
A simple "congratulations" response to pilots reporting "approaching" or "fully ready" normally resulted in a much older voice coming on the frequency with the correct phraseology, and I like to think, a cuff over the ear of the chap sitting in the right hand seat with an accompanying, "stupid boy".
On the beach
On the beach
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: USA
2 circuits at the same time...... are you kidding me??
I understand that LHR normally uses one runway for arrivals and the other for departures. Is that the case at most other UK airports?
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: 41S174E
In some places in Asia if you are at the holding point for the runway and transmit " Tower XX123 ready" they will always come back with "XX123 report fully ready" ...does my head in.....fully.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Omicron Persei 8
Metric Altitudes
Not a "pet hate", but what is the correct way to announce your level when flying a metric altitude in, say China.
C/S "ABC123 maintaining FL8100 meters" just doesn't sound quite right!
I just say I am maintaining 8100 meters (no FL prefix) but as I note all the operators out of Hong Kong talk of being at a metric Flight Level I assume they are correct, but are they?
Thanks in advance.
C/S "ABC123 maintaining FL8100 meters" just doesn't sound quite right!
I just say I am maintaining 8100 meters (no FL prefix) but as I note all the operators out of Hong Kong talk of being at a metric Flight Level I assume they are correct, but are they?
Thanks in advance.