Monarch - 3

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

correct me if i am wrong.did G-MONK fly non stop from calgary to gatwick[landed 10mins ago ]must be getting near the running on fumes stage for that distance??

The flight was an empty positioner. New build 757s were delivered non-stop from Seattle to the UK, so Calgary-Gatwick absolutely no problem.

The longest sector I have personally flown a 757 with a full load of passengers on is Bangkok-Bahrain - 7hr 30min airborne - and it was in fact on good old G-MONJ. (Except of course it was 'young' back in 26/02/1992!)
:ok:

[SCANDIC]

Its a big thumbs up to the Monarch engineers for keeping all the great aircraft going, especially at the 757's age. I just hope that their not scrapped may well be perfect for fed ex plus they don't do very long flights.

[SCANDIC]

Has anyone got any idea of how many hours the 757's have done.

[TSR2]

G-dajb - 94,267 @ 31.12.13
g-monj - 86,278 @ 31.12.12
g-monk - 88,260 @ 31.12.12

[gilesdavies]

Thanks for those links, was great to watch...

So it seems we will be getting an announcement on the new aircraft order in the next few weeks, going by one of the interviews with the Directors about the future, Bombardier definitely don't seem to be ruled out, as they were mentioned.

[TSR2]

Bombardier definitely don't seem to be ruled out, as they were mentioned.

Or just a bargaining tool. Time will tell.

[pc.]

But they mentioned the importance of "standardization of the fleet".

I can't see the ditching of Airbus and going over to Boeing...

Personally I miss the variety of the "old" days....

However it is nice seeing the smart Yellow and White livery... compared to the spreading growth of orange twin "borejets"

EGBB.... Thanks for the AirTeamImages videos they were very good. :ok:

[SCANDIC]

Can't see monarch getting anything other than more air buses surely it's better to stick with the Same manufacturer

[on time all the time]

Dear Scandic,
If this was the case Monarch would have made its decision.
It keeps postponing an announcement.....for the past 5 years!
We were told the announcement would be made end of March early April.
Now it is for July.
if Boeing was still not in the race there would be no need of pushing the decision further.

[Skipness One Echo]

Can't see monarch getting anything other than more air buses surely it's better to stick with the Same manufacturer
I would have said the same for Air Canada or remember easyJet and all those B737-700s.

[SCANDIC]

We'll just have to see what they come up with, what do you think will happen to the 75's come the end of the year, are you a 757 fan.

[on time all the time]

scrap yard for the 757

[CentreFix25]

They'll have their preference (I suspect Airbus) but they'll use Boeing as a tool to get the best deal from Airbus - it's business.

[SCANDIC]

One of the 757's doing Calgary again tonight, my bet is it will be MONK again, does anyone know where DAJB is not seen it for a while.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

G-DAJB has been on a "C" check in LTN, due to ferry if not already done so to BHX and for more maintenance work to be carried out.

[SCANDIC]

Has OJMR left for scrapping yet? :{

[tubby linton]

It is now programmed for the 29th.

[SCANDIC]

Is it still going to Lourdes to be scrapped.

[Nyerp]

Does anyone know why zb7415 is heading into ltn

[111KAB]

Presume due to the runway closure at EMA - seems a long way for the buses though - would have thought BHX a better bet.

[ericlday]

Also departed earlier in the day from Luton to Alicante before returning.

[22/04]

Probably not really much in LTN or BHX-EMA.

1.5 hours versus 45 mins-1 hour. So most important factor probably crew availability etc.

[javelinfaw9]

Assume Spare a/c was at Luton. Following canx at EMA of 07:20 departure.
Flight appeared on LTN board about 09:30 to depart 10:30. Left at 12:28.
Assume crew/pax bussed from EMA. Return landed 18:24 at LTN.
Passengers pleased with Monarchs response to emergency situation at EMA.
delayed 4 hrs in total but everybody booked got to where they needed to be.
Well done Monarch.:ok:

[OltonPete]

Monarch's last A300 left BHX at 12.16 landing Tarbes around 13.45 (UK time) cruising down at 33000ft.

From the past to the future with 1st May tomorrow and 8 aircraft needed at BHX to operate an impressive 16 flights.

[SCANDIC]

Anymore news on the big aircraft order yet. :ok:

[ericlday]

Two sub chartered into TFS today CS-TRN on ZB564 and SP-ADK on ZB289

[VC10man]

My wife and 2 friends went on Monarch to LCA recently. The went on a A321 both ways and she said the plane coming back had very hard seats with very little leg room. The plane going was roomier.

She went on G-OZBR and came back on G-ZBAF. Are there any differences in legroom or seats on the different planes or did she put on a load of weight?

[jubilee]

Yes, I have been on G---AF seats OK.
Been on G-OJEG recently, hard seats.

Both flights up at the front end.

[SCANDIC]

When is DAJB coming back into service or is it already flying again.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

We hope it will be out at the end of this week.:ok:

[VickersVicount]

The order announcement or the 757 ?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

What do you think.:=

[SCANDIC]

Both really.

[SCANDIC]

I think MONJ may have the Monarch.co.uk back on her.

[MKY661]

According to planespotters.net G-ZBAR is to go back to Air Malta in November 2015? Anyone know if this is true? :)

[111KAB]

Air Malta leases aircraft to Monarch Airlines (http://www.traveldailynews.com/news/article/60525/air-malta-leases-aircraft-to)

[111KAB]

Monarch Airline bans reclining seats on all its planes after 90% of passengers vote to ditch them | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2643647/Monarch-Airline-bans-reclining-seats-planes-90-passengers-vote-ditch-them.html)

[ATNotts]

Bravo Monarch.

Finally an end to suffering kids playing with the recline button, and catapulting hot coffee into the lap of the passenger behind in the process!!!!

I note that the DM article states at the end of that Monarch "also fly from Manchester and Birmingham" without actually mentioning that they fly from a London Airport. Absolutely typical "Londoncentric" journalism from the "national" press!

[zjc123]

Anyone know which aircraft have the seats shown in the article and when exactly the fleet are being retrofitted.
Flying at the end of September with monarch so hope it's fleet wide by then!

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I can tell you with 100% certainty it will not, or even this time next year. :ok:

[Aero Val]

Newly painted, Departing EMA for BHX

[Waldo]

Is JB back in service yet?

[T6NL]

Yes! Currently airborne operating ZB754 LGW-DLM.

[SCANDIC]

How long has DAJB been in maintenance seems like an age since i saw it.

[on time all the time]

It is flying. it went to PVK this morning and Is on its way to PMI as we speak....maybe already there..

[SCANDIC]

Can somebody tell what routes the 757's are doing from Manchester this summer, i wouldn't mind getting on one before they disappear forever.

[EK77WNCL]

I found this, I think it's quite reliable, included the A330 too. A Friday day return to TFS from Gatwick on both the A330 and 757 seemed pretty good to me, sure it was only about £130.

LGW 1 x A332/2 x B757

Monday
A332 - AM - CFU
B757 AM - DLM/FAO PM - PMI/VRN/DLM

Tuesday
A332 - AM - SSH –
B757 AM - KVA/CHQ

Wednesday
A332 - AM - TAB –
B757 -AM - PMI/RHO PM - DLM/LCA

Thursday
A332 - AM - SFB –
B757 AM - ALC/ZTH PM - FAO/DLM

Friday
A332 - AM - TFS PM - DLM
B757 AM - BCN/VOL PM - TFS/CFU

Saturday
A332 - AM - SFB –
B757 AM - MJT/DLM PM - DLM/PMI/ALC

Sunday
A332 - AM - PVK PM - FAO
B757 AM - PVK x 2 PM - PMI/DBV









MAN 1 x A332/1 x B757

Monday
A332 - AM - CFU –
B757- AM - DLM PM - DLM

Tuesday
A332 - AM - TFS PM - TFS –
B757 - AM – CHQ PM - HER

Wednesday
A332 - AM - SFB –
B757 - AM - RHO PM - DLM

Thursday
A332 - AM - SSH –
B757 - AM - ZTH PM - ZTH

Friday
A332 - AM - SFB –
B757 - AM - JSI PM - PMI

Saturday
A332 - AM - PMI PM - SSH –
B757 - AM - MJT PM - PMI x 2

Sunday
A332 - AM - PMI PM - TFS –
B757 - AM – VRN PM - SSH

[spottilludrop]

Any news on the plans to sell monarch by the companies owners?

[TSR2]

What plans are they then ?

[runway08]

Yeah they are non existent. :ok:

[on time all the time]

Well ....... The group provided full financial report last year. being a privatively owned airline there was no need for it.
CAPA wrote a report on it and could not find any other reason that sellinga all or part of the business.
The new MD was asked that question and although he did know nothing,,,, he thought that the company could be floated in the future...
So nothing official but few signs which may make people think the family may not remain the sole owner.

[LNIDA]

I think an attempted float is more likely than a trade sale, who would be in the market to buy them? what is there to buy

[Serenity]

Let's play spot the troll ... LNIDA... :mad:

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Good old LNIDA, always one to rely on when there's the opportunity for a bit of trolling on a competitor. :=

[LNIDA]

I'm just pointing out the very obvious (if you remove rose tinted glasses) that a sale is improbable, transfer of undertakings alone would kill a deal, the aircraft are leased, so your left with a pilot resource and a very strong brand.

MAEL would be a very valuable asset and the travel company also.

Monarch owners are going to have to raise a huge sum of money for any new aircraft order, which in turn will be years away from delivery the silence on this subject is deafening

A float would/could raise the funding, although Flybe's float p*****d off the capital markets big time.

Vueling, Norwegian, Ryanair & easyjet all have undelivered aircraft on FIRM order for delivery in the next 48 months, at least 500+units

So lets see the "family" put their money where their mouth is.

Me i'd keep the MAEL and plough any money from sale/float into that engineering is all about reputation and MAEL is at the top of its game the rest is a mugs game.

Show me the meat Stony, competitor??? you are having a laugh 2013 pax 6.2m 2012 pax 6.3m talk about eyes wide shut, a drop of 100,000 pax PA we call that Wednesday & Thursday morning

Sale prospectus; declining volume low cost carrier seeks floating to fund 3.6bn fleet order :ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

Yup, Ryanair have racedo, Norwegian have LNIDA.
Vueling, Norwegian, Ryanair & easyjet all have undelivered aircraft on FIRM order for delivery in the next 48 months, at least 500+units
Intentionally putting the biggest players together as one lump and comparing to Monarch is not any sensible form of comparison. Monarch only operate bases in the UK, most of the rest are pan European on a dash for growth.

[Jack1985]

Does anyone have any idea what Cost Index Monarch are using these days?

[hapzim]

depends if we are in a rush :eek:

[Jack1985]

Lol :}, so there's no set CI?

[Alloy]

CI depends on airframe and route so is variable for different destinations and aircraft.

[Jack1985]

CI depends on airframe and route so is variable for different destinations and aircraft.

Cheers, is there no standardisation even on the A320 family fleet? would definitely have thought there was variables with the 757/330's being the fleet, surprised it also varies due to destination (S/H), does it also definitely vary on the short-haul fleet?

[Alloy]

CI depends on variables like fuel costs (different airports have different Jet A1 prices), ownership costs (lease rates, aircraft mortgage costs etc.) and maintenance costs. All of these will produce different CIs for different routes and different airframes, the result being a CI that is most economic for the particular criteria.

The CI's of different models can not be directly compared to each other.

Additionally, each airframe has a performance factor that generally degrades as the aircraft ages.

[Jack1985]

Cheers mate really appreciate the above, you forget the sheer amount of variables sometimes! :ok:

[SCANDIC]

Is there any chance that Fed Ex will take Monarch's 757's.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

My money would be NO, however someone else might and that also includes part out companies. :ok:

[OltonPete]

A rare occurrence on the BHX site this morning ZB5408 Rome cancelled and ZB5409 Rome cancelled.

Outside of the ash cloud problem I am having difficulty remembering Monarch ever cancelling a flight at BHX.

I assume the aftermath of the aborted take-off yesterday afternoon off the 321 on route for Dubrovnik and with two 321's in MAEL - no available replacement.

Yesterday's schedule was dealt with by using the first night-stop aircraft and delaying the night Ibiza and the same could be happening later as well.


Edit ZB408 Faro changed from delayed as has Nice. Possible substitute aircraft found

[Drive4it]

Hi all

As previously posted back in Feb. Im travelling BHX-JSI next month.

I understand the reasons for the ac to stop off on Greek Mainland to fuel up on the return due to JSI runway length.

Looking at the Departure board at BHX yesterday and confirming by Flightrader for the last 3weeks MON5838 (GOZBX/GOZBW) it seems the outbound flight is also touching down in Kavala.

The flight itenary does not show this outward change but puts another 90min on flight time which is unwelcomed as SLF.

Any ideas why the change?

[TartinTon]

Drive4it...I suspect it's a quirk of the BHX dep board. The flight operates BHX-JSI-KVA-BHX so there will be pax travelling BHX-JSI and BHX-KVA. The dep boards get confused with the bit in the middle that essentially has 2 flight numbers, one for the outbound BHXKVA pax and one for the inbound JSIBHX pax.

[EI-DAC]

New ski routes for W14/15:
BHX-TRN
BHX-SZG

[SCANDIC]

Anymore 321's due end of the year or start of next year.

[MKY661]

2 more due next year with sharklets. Registrations to be confirmed :) Maybe more too.

I think now with the 757's due to leave at the end of the summer and G-ZBAR due to leave at the end of 2015 I think everything else will stay until the new aircraft orders arrive :)

[FRatSTN]

When do ZB release Summer 2015 flights?

[paul atkins]

FR the email I had back from them was mid July that was of yesterday

[pilotatlast]

Any news on the Monarch fleet order announcement and recruitment?

[FRatSTN]

Thank you!

[Father Jack Hackett]

Maybe they want to make a big splash at Farnborough.....

[pabloc]

The order will be placed on Pancake Friday...haha:ok:

[Mr @ Spotty M]

You are indeed spot on. :ok:

[Facelookbovvered]

Just a month to wait then? if its a Farnborough announcement then it implies new equipment hopefully with early production slots. Is the C series still in the running

[on time all the time]

Yes the c series is back in the equation.
3 frame types, 2 engines makers.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

What makes you think early slots?
Just because an announcement is due shortly, it does not imply anything, deliveries could be 2020 and beyond.
It could mean slots in the next few years for existing models, before NEO or MAX deliveries, if we go that way.

[Cymmon]

So lease of standard models as of now, then change of arrangement to lease/purchase of the new models when initial service bugs are sorted out?

New aircraft usually have bugs and problems, so hedge the bets. A320/neo for a year or two, whilst waiting for the Canadairs to get the aircraft to a decent spec instead of the basic, normal, overweight, niggle prone first few production aircraft?

Or am I reading too much into this?

By A320, I also mean the whole A318-21 family, with the exchange to neo....
Winglets/Sharklet changes included.....

[Facelookbovvered]

Thanks for the prompt reply, it was a question not a statement ! about slots 2020 is an awful long time off

[Mr @ Spotty M]

You are reading to much into it.
Monarch have two new A321s due next year on lease.
Both Airbus & Boeing as part of there offerings include CEO & NG as interim deliveries until NEO & MAX slots were available.
They are not waiting for problems to be sorted out, just that slots are not available early enough or in numbers wanted.
As for the 2020 statement by me, it was a figure plucked out of the air, deliveries could start a lot earlier but some will be for 2020 and beyond. :ok:

[CabinCrewe]

Could be a surprise, but you would think it would need to be a massive tide change (a-la EZY switch from B to A) to make Monarch change from Airbus to Boeing (or anyone else). Would seem odd to still be adding Airbuses and the associated training and maintenance to then change to Boeing.
Ill go for a 30 aircraft A320/21 NEO order.

[Blighty Pilot]

I did pmsl when a crew member told me they'd been offered 10 FREE 777's if they ordered 60 x 737 MAX.

Boeing giving away their most popular long haul aircraft - yeah right!!! :ugh::ugh:

[Hotel Tango]

Must have been 1 free 737 for an order of 60 777s ;)

[Blighty Pilot]

Indeed! :ok:

I think their long haul days are numbered! 28" seat pitch on any flight over 10mins long.... No thanks! :yuk::yuk:

[SCANDIC]

Anymore news on the aircraft order.:cool:

[CabinCrewe]

as per previous posts, wait until Farnborough

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Boeing nears deal to sell 30 jets to Monarch Airlines -sources


Boeing nears deal to sell 30 jets to Monarch Airlines -sources | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/01/monarch-airlines-boeing-idUSL6N0PC4BL20140701)

My money would have been on an A320/1neo and C-Series combo.

Glad I'm not a gambler.

[Diverskii]

This MAX order comes as a shock.

It must have been a good deal for them to reject the neo. They've been an Airbus airline for a while and now they switch to the MAX?

Any takers as to why?

[22/04]

It will just come down to who has made the best offer- and 73 might just beat Airbus on payload range giving more flexibility.

MON have been with Airbus of late but were a near launch customer for the 757- and just look how well that aircraft has served them.

The latest 73 would look great in ZB colours.

[HOODED]

Big mistake IMHO the airbus cabin is far superior the airframe a younger more maintainable design. Customers will notice the difference and may choose another airline with AB instead. Money talks but if you loose some loyal customers through essentially going backwards the savings may not result overall.

[22/04]

Can't see Ryanair pax deserting in droves- or Fly Dubai or Jet2!

[bjones4]

WSJ is now carrying this,

Monarch Airlines to Order 30 Boeing 737 Max Jets - WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/articles/monarch-airlines-to-order-30-boeing-737-max-jets-1404247974)

Looking to be 30 Firm with 15 Options.

[EK77WNCL]

I'm begging for half Airbus, half Boeing... It's not worth it is it?

[crewmeal]

as per previous posts, wait until Farnborough

So much for the big announcement at Farnborough. You heard it first on PPRuNe :D

[HOODED]

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I don't think Ryanair Jet 2 of Fly Dubai have ever operated airbus. Having flown Easyjet a few times if they went back to Boeing I would be seriously disappointed and would look elsewhere for a more comfortable flight. Their 737s weren't old when they got rid but the A319s were much better. I just think Monarch who I have admired for a long time, in particular their engineering, will regret this.

[cheesebag]

Wow... and here's me thinking they were going all Airbus when they wave goodbye to the 752's

[renort]

For the sake of a hell of a lot of peoples futures, I do hope someone has done the numbers on this properly! This is a sea-change in Monarch aircraft ordering policy and I hope this isn't a very risky gamble.

who cares how good the aircraft will look in Monarch colours, are they actually going to earn them some money?

[ATNotts]

EK77WNCL

I'm begging for half Airbus, half Boeing... It's not worth it is it?

Is that for a commercial reason? If so it makes little sense. Fleet commonality reduces operating costs.

[LGS6753]

This means they will have a mixed fleet for what: 5, 6, 7, 10 years?

[MKY661]

Not sure what would happen if they were to Phase out the Airbus fleet. I mean they have just got brand new aircraft over the last year or so. Plus I'm not sure if the 737MAX will be able to get in to smaller airports like Gibraltar (I know the 737-300 can) :)

I don't think Ryanair Jet 2 of Fly Dubai have ever operated airbus

Jet2 Have operated an airbus aircraft on lease from Titan but other that that they haven't :)

[LN-KGL]

Monarch seems to get a mix of Max 8 and Max 9 - and I guess Boeing will continue offering something similar for the Max 8 as they have done for B738 - the Short Field Performance Pack developed for Gol Transportes Aéreos' so that they could use the 4331 feet long runway at Rio de Janeiro, Santos Dumont (SDU). The runway at GIB is 6000 feet long and it doesn't have any obstacles like the Sugarloaf Montain (Pão de Açúcar) at SDU. In Europe I know Norwegian has installed the Short Field Performance Pack on all their Boeing 737-8JP and the performance pack will also be on the new Max 8s. It's all up to Monarch to order this pack if they want to continue to fly to GIB.

[Skipness One Echo]

Good grief you'd think they'd just ordered a Russian design going by the reaction of some. They currently operate a mixed bag of old and new A320s and A321s, some second hand, some not, some leased, some not, some with sharklets, some not. Any Boeing order is a multi million pound investment so I think it's safe to assume a good deal has been offered, and the numbers tally with where Monarch think they need to be.
This is the company that helped introduce the Boeing 757 and survived the transition from Boeing 737s to Airbus. When EZY rolled the whole fleet over from Boeing to Airbus, Joe Public barely noticed as a flying narrow body cabin is much of a muchness to the majority of muggles, er I mean people.
The future will be a standardised fleet with a new generation and highly capable narrow body. I wish them well.

FYI if anyone from Monarch is reading this, the B737 photograph on the inside back page of the inflight mag is actually a BAC One Eleven. D'ooooh!

[FlyingFree123]

Hi All, first post after months of reading and enjoying all the comments on here. :)

I personally hope that they do stick with Airbus. However I know that both Airbus & Boeing make great planes and competition is good for airlines, environment, passengers etc.

I was watching the final MON flight on airteamimages a few weeks back and on the video, the director of performance was saying that they now had to re-certify all of the A300 captains onto the A320/1 fleet. And also that as on end of summer 14 Monarch would be an all Airbus fleet, which makes crew scheduling easier, and helos with cost base.

I understand that there is some cost in this, what other costs will be involved in the change from Airbus to Boeing?

[Level bust]

I don't believe your average punter cares whether they fly on a Boeing or an Airbus, they look at the cost, not what they are flying on.

Most of them wouldn't know the difference anyway.

[SCANDIC]

I thought monarch were sticking to one manufacturer.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

SCANDIC.
Thinking can be a dangerous past time. :ok:
Skipness One Echo.
Nice post , one small error, Monarch used to own aircraft. :{

[FlyingTinCans]

Having flown with MON on one of their old A320's recently and regularly flying in the back of brand new 737's with sky interior at flydubai, My opinion is the 737 cabin is better - are airbus bringing a new interior to the NEO?

The MAX 9 (on paper) is as close to a 757-200 replacement that you are going to get and a lot of charter companies have been waiting for one, it's not a surprise MON are looking at it.

Whatever the order is it will be the next decade before MAX's in MON colours start showing up as the backlog is pretty high now and boeing have not even finished the production building. Maybe some 737NG's offered to bridge the gap? As MON have only just taken delivery of some new buses maybe the 7+ year wait suits them anyway

[Facelookbovvered]

The MAX should be available barring any development snags with the new engines in late 2017, but they have a large order back log, could it be that deposit money for the cancelled 787 order will allow early production slots?

GIB shouldn't be a problem if the SFP kit is spec'd

Maybe some late model NG to fill the gap?, but still surprised they didn't stay with Airbus.....any news on the C series?

[FQTLSteve]

Great shame if they buy the 737. The A320 family is a much nicer a/c to fly on, as a frequent user BHX-FRA with LH the difference is notable and I always prefer the A320 option. It would influence me where there are alternatives for sure. In addition with the A320 it's supporting jobs here in the UK and the rest of the EU, another plus point too.

[VickersVicount]

I doubt the config of ZB and LH would be the same. Never noticed a discernible difference in width on the Boeing vs Airbus

[LNIDA]

Nothing to pick and choose between the 320/738 on interiors and the sky interior is now production standard, a lot depends on how many seats an operator plans to put in. 189 on the 738 is a bit tight 186 works well even if your nudging 2m tall

I doubt that 99% of pax are aware of aircraft type when booking, why should they be?

[Falcon666]

I doubt that 99% of pax are unaware of aircraft type when booking , why should they be?

Maybe because along came the Dreamliner!!you would be surprised how many people are still reluctant to fly on one.
Don't underestimate the general public when it comes to Favourite airlines to fly with and/or A/C type.

[VickersVicount]

Nope. The majority are oblivious , the rest are keen to try it. I doubt airlines are losing sleep over a tiny minority who may chose not to fly it. I would be surprised indeed if that was the case.

[Aluminium shuffler]

RYR operate 738s onto some runways with less than 6000' without performance kits, but that is on flights of only a couple of hours and in the temperate north of Europe. I don't think the 73 will have any issues at GIB. As for comments about the 73 cabin vs 320, the Max cabins are more akin to the 787's and are leagues ahead of the current 320s, so that comparison is not really a fair one, especially as so much is down to customer specification, not the manufacturer.

[on time all the time]

Monarch has discretely released its financial report.
This can be found at the bottom of the home page of :
The site is The Monarch Group - Home (http://www.monarchholdingslimited.com)

One interesting point ....thee highest paid director saw his wage grow from £646.000 to £1.103.000....a whopping 70% increase!

[All names taken]

One or two of the comments above suggest that people actually would choose another airline because Monarch are flying Boeings instead of Airbuses.
Really?
Other than aerogeeks of the type that frequent this forum, no-one cares in the real world.
I don't think Monarch will be losing any sleep or revenue.

Price / convenience / service / flight times - all these things matter.
Whether it's Boeing Max or an Airbus Neo is going to be a long way down the list, if it's even on it at all.

And as for the comment 'I do hope someone has done the numbers.....' well what do you think? And what a stupid comment.
Do you really think the management team has just gone in to the showroom and browsed through an aeroplane brochure, kicked the tyres and said 'what sort of deal can you do for us?'
Of course they've done the numbers.

[fa2fi]

Come on people haven't got a clue about what planes they are flying on. It was only a few years ago Balkan would fly people on TU154s. If people knew anything about them and their chequered history I'm sure nobody would set foot in them. In days gone by when airlines used to sell themselves on the planes they flew they people maybe were a little more type aware (connie, trident, BAC111, l1011, DC10, Electras) but now when airlines are pretty common (especially down the back) and the planes are pretty generic looking people don't know or don't care.

Maybe people know a 787 is a bit different, but line one up against a group of other aircraft and I'd bet you not one of your average punters could distinguish it from the rest.

I don't think for one moment that MON will buy Boeing. EZY were in advanced talks with Boeing too very recently. They didn't go Boeing. Instead they played the manufacturers off of one another to get a better deal out of airbus. Same here.

[paully]

O`Leary used to get quotes from both Boeing and Airbus and fax them to each other to nail down the best price :}

[Artie Fufkin]

Monarch has discretely released its financial report.
I can see why the results were released discretely, they made for quite interesting reading. After loosing in excess of £50M for 2 years in a row, they have "only" lost £14M in 2013. Despite having been bailed out by over £100M in recent years, they are now down to £17M in net assets. :eek:

How exactly are they funding this order of new aircraft? Another present from Switzerland?

[crosswind11]

I was also wondering how they will fund the purchase of the new aircraft. Heard they are already having cashflow problems!!

[New T2 Office]

Saxonbloke...............here here.................spot on




It was a strange 1st post....wasn't it!!!

[greatoaks]

2014 News - Flights - THE MONARCH GROUP CONFIRMS BOEING AS THE PREFERRED BIDDER FOR NARROW-BODIED FLEET REPLACEMENT | Flights News - Monarch (http://www.monarch.co.uk/news/flights/2014-news/the-monarch-group-confirms-boeing-as-the-preferred-bidder-for-narrow-bodied-fleet-replacement)

[on time all the time]

Monarch has also announced the same day that it is about to leave Swissport at LGW and MAN due to the terrible performance of the handling agent this summer.
A new handling agent will take over early November.

[Blighty Pilot]

And all the folk laid off from Swissport will just transition across to the new handling agent. Seen it all before!

[ZeBedie]

And then the pain will be repeated, not due to the Swissport staff, but that's just the way it goes.

[The96er]

Monarch has also announced the same day that it is about to leave Swissport at LGW and MAN due to the terrible performance of the handling agent this summer.
A new handling agent will take over early November.

Translation:- Another handling agent is prepared to do the job for less money !
Don't kid yourself, it's all about doing it for the lowest price - service is a very distant 2nd.

[pabely]

Fleet Announcement

How much of this order is about keeping the GoldCare for the Engineering arm?:E

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Not one little bit.
Its all down to operating costs.

[SCANDIC]

Who will be Monarch's new handling agent at man.

[22/04]

I have already commented on the superior payload range of the Boeing offering vs. Airbus especially on the longer routes. Not surprised at all.

At the expense of a tiny bit of cabin width which customer service can easily overcome. The 737 MAX gets pretty close to the 757.

As an aside doesn't the aeroplane look great in Monarch colours- slightly more purposeful the 'BUS

Am amazed that airframe I fist saw as a 13 year old boy in 1968 will now see me out- hats to the boys at Being for squeezing the most out of an airframe

[Facelookbovvered]

I Don't dispute your claim, but i was surprised Monarch made the jump to Boeing given their current fleet of Airbus aircraft, i can only think that Boeing was holding non refundable deposit money from the now cancelled 787 order and that when that went back into the pot the numbers added up.

If this is to be Monarch 'standard' aircraft going forward then 189 pax is a lot less than what the A321 can carry, although i did read that Boeing was looking at a 200 seat version of the 800 airframe without a stretch but an extra door aft of the wing.

What about long haul is there a further order to come? ditto talk of the C series?

A fleet of 320/321 Neo's plus 330 Neo's would have given greater route flexibility with a common type rating and the entry in to service date could have been earlier, Q2 2018 is a long time off.

[TSR2]

I Don't dispute your claim, but i was surprised Monarch made the jump to Boeing given their current fleet of Airbus aircraft, i can only think that Boeing was holding non refundable deposit money from the now cancelled 787 order and that when that went back into the pot the numbers added up.

I think you have hit the nail smack bang on the head.

[LGS6753]

According to Boeing, the Max 8's high-density seating capacity is 200. If Monarch also ordered Max 9s, that increases to 220.

[ATNotts]

Facelookbovvered

I Don't dispute your claim, but i was surprised Monarch made the jump to Boeing given their current fleet of Airbus aircraft, i can only think that Boeing was holding non refundable deposit money from the now cancelled 787 order and that when that went back into the pot the numbers added up.

If you're going to spend USD3.1bn then surely the decision is going to come down to two things. First cost, and not just the up front price, but the operating costs. Second (but obviously not by much) the competing product's ability to perform the job required of them.

How it looks in your (the airlines) colour scheme is of no importance whatsoever - appreciate you haven't mentioned this flb.

As for your average bucket and spade passenger, these days they'd be hard pressed to know whether they were inside an Airbus or Boeing product. All they're interested in is price, price and then price of their ticket.

[Superpilot]

Anyone know the outcome of the Monarch diversion to Athens yesterday (around 1645 UTC)?They mentioned they had a problem dealing with a disruptive passenger who was turning violent.

[111KAB]

Comment circulating on the internet "Return flight Birmingham-Larnaca on 16/17/14.We had an emergency landing at Athens airport because a passenger was drunk.The crew made mistakes.First they underestimated the situation and then they overreacted when the situation was under control.We have pictures of him drinking beers on the plane whilst being drunk."


Don't know why they bothered to land ..... should have just opened the door and pushed.

[mudcity]

Am I alone in being a bit underwhelmed by this 'big' announcement ....firstly there is no actual order , and then the actual numbers talked about are less than the existing fleet size !
So is monarch planning to announce significant cutbacks shortly ? They are still losing money ....what is the future for them ??

[116d]

Let's not forget that they've taken delivery of various brand-new A321s over the last 15 months and there's 2 more to come next year, as well as some second-hand example and 2 brand-new A320s.

Putting the options aside, I wonder whether the plan is to keep the newer A321s long-term for the routes where the extra capacity is needed and use the MAX-8s to replace the A320s and most of the A321s, especially some of the older ones which will be nearly 20 years old by the time the first MAX-8 is delivered. Yes it will involve different types in the fleet, though that didn't stop Monarch from keeping 3 757s in the fleet for several years after the rest were withdrawn.

As for the order itself, I too was surprised that they switched to Boeing. Pity in some respects because as a passenger, I have a slight preference for the A320 Family over the 737s. i presume Boeing made Monarch a very good deal.

[Blighty Pilot]

Well if they do go firm on the order, rather than a letter of intent (which isn't worth the paper it's written on btw) they can then add to the list of Boeings they've offloaded from orders to other carriers i.e. 767's to Eva Air and 787's to BA I believe!
Useless management too busy doing deals and funny hand shakes at the Masonic Lodge I'm afraid!

[FLY BY WIRE]

Which Aircraft leasing companies do Monarch own, or have links with?
There's a small blurb on the Monarch website about aircraft leasing, but little further info.
You can trace the holiday/flight chain back from Monarch Airlines, to Monarch Holdings, to Globus Travel group, and finally back to Amerald Investments nv.
But I can see no links to an aircraft leasing company. If anyone can enlighten me, just out of curiosity, that would be great. :ok:

[ZeBedie]

The Luton Leasing Company of Tokyo may be one of them? And a German leasing company, with a less memorable name?

[111KAB]

Swiss billionaires inject cash into Monarch for third time in five years - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/10978371/Swiss-billionaires-inject-cash-into-Monarch-for-third-time-in-five-years.html)

[111KAB]

FBW - according to press article GE Aviation in conjunction with JV partners and CFM International are the firms behind the Monarch Boeing potential order. As article says Joint Venture partners expect this means > http://www.gecas.com/en/index.html however, like you, found it difficult to actually find out who does 'own' the Monarch leased planes.

[Facelookbovvered]

So long as the cash flow is + then the investment will probably just reduce tax elsewhere, after all its a private company, it not like Alitalia.

No one in the airline i've spoken to seems to be in the least concerned about job security, staff are frequently told not worry over press comments about 'profitability' its not a conventional airline and its been around for ever and the 'family' are happy.........

[LGS6753]

Within a group of companies, it is fairly straightforward to camouflage the performance of any single subsidiary through the use of transfer pricing and management fees remitted to the parent. Especially so when the group is held privately.
I anticipate Monarch will enjoy a lengthy period of successful independence unless its owners decide to sell, for their own reasons.

[gilesdavies]

unless its owners decide to sell, for their own reasons...

Please for God sake don't even mention that!

I know another airline that would be biting at the ankles to buy the airline division, the dreaded easyJet!

A fleet that is currently compatible with their own and I am sure they would appreciate the A321's, unlike the days of when they took over GB and simply thought they were too big!

Extra slots at Gatwick and Manchester they can use up.

Headquarters at Luton also, so gives them immediate new office space and new hangars within the vicinity of their own at the airport too!

A new sizeable instant base at Birmingham. Not sure how LBA and EMA would however fit into the mix.

I just hope this cash blip gets sorted, and I am sure that is all it is - a "blip". But with the newspapers reporting this news, it does the airline no favours whatsoever and can make people thinking of booking flights get nervous and going elsewhere to book. This can then explode in to a problem that doesn't exist.

[ATNotts]

I just hope this cash blip gets sorted, and I am sure that is all it is - a "blip".

There is a distinct danger that the injection of cash into a company to finance investment in new equipment is being turned into some sort of dire financial situation.

The more it is discussed, and the more it is speculated upon the greater the chance that something insignificant could be turned into something more, purely through rumours and comment - and nobody wants that, least of all those working for the company - of which I am not one!

[LGS6753]

Travel weekly reports on a survey of the LCC market by HSBC:

Monarch was described as "fast-growing" and a "potential threat" to Thomas Cook and TUI.

Only easyJet has seen yield growth in all 4 quarters last year, Air Berlin saw double-digit second-half decline, and Ryanair 10% down in Q3.

HSBC said that, against this background "second-tier" carriers such as Jet2, Monarch and Norwegian have emerged.

"In their local markets Jet2 (northern England) and Monarch (southern England) are both growing fast while Wizz continues to grow fast from eastern Europe"

HSBC sees "a new surge in competition from Ryanair and easyJet" and questions whether TC and TUI are strong enough to withstand the threat from MON, Jet2 and Norwegian.

(Just reporting an interesting piece - don't shoot the messenger!)

[SCANDIC]

Very interesting to read, thumbs up to Monarch.

[Facelookbovvered]

Interesting comments about the growth of Monarch, Jet2 & Norwegian, i think the most positive thing is that the growth is coming from other than Ryanair & easyJet, although i suspect it may be short lived as Ryanair slowly changed their customer focus from intolerable back to to tolerable but still have a massive cost advantage and of course size brings its own benefits plus moving to mainstream airports, going forward i think Monarch biggest challenge will be London Gatwick, i see a bloodbath between easy jet & Norwegian causing significant collateral damage to Monarch.

Jet2 don't really feature south of EMA and Norwegian have shown no interest in North of LGW other than some scandi flights to MAN/EDI & that kind of leaves LTN/BHX to Monarch, I'm told their prices are high and their flights are full, a lot of loyal passengers that return time and time again, but they are losing market share at LGW

Personally 9 months after they said they were close to a larger fleet order Farnborough was a damp squib, as someone else said a LOI isn't worth the paper its written on, i just hope the owners are up for it ! we need airlines like Monarch & Jet2 in the UK to be successful

[MKY661]

Summer 2015 flights are up. Notable Changes:
All flights to Dubrovnik not bookable (except Gatwick)
All flights to Ibiza not bookable
BHX-GIB not bookable

I would Imagine these are late being loaded into the system :)

[Daza]

MKY661 wrote BHX-GIB not bookable

26/7/2014 2330 none of Birminghams Summer 2015 flights are showing as bookable yet :}

[MKY661]

26/7/2014 2330 none of Birminghams Summer 2015 flights are showing as bookable yet

Ah OK. Wasn't aware. Cheers :)

[FRatSTN]

Looks like BHX and LBA are in the process of being uploaded because if you search for a flight from April onwards it says "No Flights" below each day of the week.




All the EMA routes however display the usual proper message saying there's no flights and advises the latest date that flight operates. Could mean nothing but it's making me think they are not planning to upload EMA yet. I hope they are not pulling out!?

[LNIDA]

FLB it looks like the owners are not up for it least not on their own

Monarch airline seeks new backers | The Sunday Times (http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Companies/article1439099.ece)

The media do print some rubbish, take on easyJet & Ryanair !!!!

[adfly]

LNIDA - you make your dislike for Monarch quite apparent on here so there is no need to keep reminding everyone. That article doesn't suggest Monarch will ever match ezy/fr for size just that they want to compete on price and product and with them, which is something they already do to an extent. They compete with one or the other or both at every base they have anyway!

[LNIDA]

I have no idea where you've got that impression from? Monarch is a strong brand and i would love to see them be really successful and grow, i have no axe to grind with them, i have never worked there or even applied, i have flown with them of course other than the lack of leg room and delayed departures i thought the product was good and far better than some of the other so called LoCo

Having said all that clearly thing are in a state of change, hopefully for the better.

[nigel osborne]

Adfly,

Interesting 2 new topics on Monarch finances. One alleging yet another cash injection about to be made, a 2nd they wish for outside investment.

Are the two linked, and if so Im not sure if this is a sign they don't think they have enough dosh for the medium term. Or perhaps they are confident enough they wish to expand much further ?

Thoughts anyone ?


Nigel

[sunshine79]

Just been looking for flight LGW-SSH next June, are Monarch not using an A330 on this route next year?

[Facelookbovvered]

Nigel

A lot of people seem to assume that because the 'M' family are worth a reported €4.7bn that money is no object in funding Monarch's ongoing operations, my personal view is that the owners never got that wealthy by investing in vanity projects and as the old saying goes about 'how do you make a small fortune in the airline industry? start of with a large now !!

At the same time airlines can be very good for cash flow even if they just break even, but the need for a possible 3rd cash injection and outside investors does suggest a change of heart, it may well be that they are looking to do this by a public flotation.

I think i read that they are now trading profitably, so if they are seeking to raise funds for fleet replacement & expansion then that must be regarded as a positive step:ok::ok:

[mudcity]

Looking again at the press release which was issued when the 'commitment' to Boeing was announced the MD Andrew Swaffield states
'“With this fleet replacement we are choosing the correct number of aircraft and the correct size of aircraft to help us create a year-round efficient European operation which maximises profitability.''
This was for 30 aircraft....monarch operate currently 42 aircraft !
Now I read that as the intention is to shrink the fleet not expand it., whether this is part of the conditions from the shareholders for getting more money from them ? I guess all will become clear in the next few months.

[ATNotts]

Now I read that as the intention is to shrink the fleet not expand it

Given the company's strategy to be a European scheduled airline I would guess that the A330 fleet doesn't really fit with these plans, so I would suspect that the shrinkage could come through the withdrawal of the type.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Looking again at the press release which was issued when the 'commitment' to Boeing was announced the MD Andrew Swaffield states
'“With this fleet replacement we are choosing the correct number of aircraft and the correct size of aircraft to help us create a year-round efficient European operation which maximises profitability.''
This was for 30 aircraft....monarch operate currently 42 aircraft !
Now I read that as the intention is to shrink the fleet not expand it., whether this is part of the conditions from the shareholders for getting more money from them ? I guess all will become clear in the next few months.

The letter of intent - because that is what it is - is for 30 aircraft with options on a further 15. I read that as an intention to operate at least 45 aircraft. The A330s are scheduled to go out of service in 2018.

[adfly]

LNIDA - perhaps my comment was a little unfair, but it just seemed clear to me in the article that Monarch intended to continue to complete the with fr/ezy in the same way they do currently rather than going all out and ordering a few hundred planes to do so more directly.

[renort]

Another big name goes out the door with a pocketful of cash.

[on time all the time]

Big changes at the top.

Ian Rawlinson the current chairman is leaving after 5 years.
Sir Ian Mac Nutty is becoming chairman.
Andrew Swaffield who was Monarch MD is becoming the CEO of the group...

[samj]

What are the future plans for Monarch's A330-200 aircraft? It seems G-EOMA is LGW based and G-SMAN is MAN based for the summer. Will these be operating throughout the Winter for MON and Summer 2015?

[Ethiopia]

Monarch Group announces new chairman and CEO (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/europe/item/1289-monarch-group-announces-new-chairman-and-ceo)

[OntimeexceptACARS]

BBC News reporting a public "sacking" :

BBC News - Airline axes baggage handler, after Gatwick chaos (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28580439)

[Airlift21]

Swissport are blaming their recent problems on the fact that too many aircraft landed between 11pm and 1am. Utterly clueless!

Stating the obvious.... LGW is a busy airport running with a busy summer schedule.

When I worked for Servisair a few years ago, we would have thought something was wrong if there weren't rapid successive arrivals at that time, or at any other time come to think of it!

Basically, it's unacceptable performance by Swissport and Monarch is doing the right thing by making them walk the plank.

Maybe other airlines will follow.... and I would understand why.

However, I would feel sorry for the actual loaders & handlers, as the attitude of their management could cost jobs. Not fair at all. Let's hope Swissport pull their socks up, before any more carriers bail out.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

BBC News reporting a public "sacking" :

BBC News - Airline axes baggage handler, after Gatwick chaos (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28580439)

This is two week old news, reported on this thread. See #2124

[True Blue]

Has Monarch dropped Bodrum from Gatwick for S15? Site says Lgw is on sale for S15, but Bodrum is not.

[on time all the time]

The all summer program is not all out.

[alasdair1]

Does anyone know if mon/zb plan to expand at gla as they have the odda330 on gla-sanford ?

[CabinCrewe]

Dont see any plans for Monarch in Scotland. They've missed the boat now with FR and Jet2. The SFB are just 3 a year, are just Cosmos charters and have never changed for the past 8 years, so dont see them changing now, particularly as there is a question over the future of the A330's.

[paistepst5]

Hi all. I am going to make this very short and simple. Even though I don't believe it has been completely finalised yet, it has been known for some time that Monarch were looking at ordering some 737-max aircraft for their fleet expansion. Can someone please explain what the heck Monarch were thinking of and why they see this as a fleet development? I mean why wouldn't they go for a320neo's or the new cseries jets? Surely in terms of price, technology, cost per seat and per nm and in terms of appeal these aircraft win? They say they want to separate themselves from the likes of Ryanair and yet they then go and get very similar aircraft to Ryanair. What is it with them. Am I the only person who sees this as a step back and not a step forward? I was interested in being a pilot for Monarch but I detest most Boeings (apart from 747-8, 777 and 767) the way they look and fly and their cockpits are in my opinion decades behind the airbus'. I understand many will say Boeings are for 'real pilots' and airbus' are for flying PC engineers but I just think that if you are gonna sit their flying, monitoring, doing paperwork and radios etc for many hours its better to have a nice environment than a horrid one. I am sorry to say it because I really liked Monarch as an airline but because of this and Iain Rawlinson stepping down I am rather disappointed in the airline and actually saddened by this. I just don't understand. Is there anything which the Boeing 737-max aircraft actually do better or cheaper than their competitors?

[22/04]

As I keep saying

Payload/range - 737 MAX is lighter incorporating 787 lessons learnt.

Probably price.

[Flightrider]

Monarch was one of the first airlines to undertake counter-seasonal leasing with the 737-200s, partnering with Pacific Western for quite a few years throughout the 1980s. It seems that the absence of this from their business plan, and difficulty finding enough productive work to keep the fleet occupied in the UK over the winter together with the heavy maintenance checks, is one of the major gaps in strategy. Perhaps the 737 MAX offers far greater potential for this type of activity to reduce winter losses than the Airbus fleet, with more partners in Canada, US, Mexico etc.

[mudcity]

Still no programme for S15 for EMA or LBA ........

[MKY661]

Still no programme for S15 for EMA or LBA ........

Believe they will be going up shortly with some other routes not loaded in yet :)

[MANTHRUST]

Why do you believe that?

[VickersVicount]

the beliefs of other forums ?

[SCANDIC]

MONJ came into man this afternoon but didn't operate a flight out, or could it just be going into the hangar

[MKY661]

Why do you believe that?

Also heard on Twitter that they will put them up soon :)

[111KAB]

This is from their FB page > "We are currently conducting a review of our schedule for Summer 15. We have released 4 bases where the review has been complete however the review is on-going for Leeds Bradford and East Midlands. The schedule for summer 15 will offer our customers a better service with; more frequent flights to some of our most popular destinations, better weekend flight times & flexibility to book a short break or a mid or longer length holiday."


In view of the fact that the current Boeings are due to depart one has to ask if they are seeking substitute s/h to serve the routes in S15. In addition the potential Boeing order must require some financial support from 'holdings' and as it is well documented that they are seeking finance (whether internally or externally) surely whoever injects funding into holdings is going to request a review of the Boeing order (due diligence) before committing finance.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Not seeking more s/h for next year and don't believe all that you hear on social media.
NJ is in for maintenance.
First B757 JB does not leave until mid November.

[SCANDIC]

Would you say freighter or coke cans.

[ATNotts]

111KAB

We are currently conducting a review of our schedule for Summer 15. We have released 4 bases where the review has been complete however the review is on-going for Leeds Bradford and East Midlands. The schedule for summer 15 will offer our customers a better service with; more frequent flights to some of our most popular destinations, better weekend flight times & flexibility to book a short break or a mid or longer length holiday

The second sentence of that statement is the same wording as was used when the Summer 2015 offerings already released were announced and as such is largely meaningless PR blurb. This suggests to me that there are question marks over the LBA / EMA operation.

Obviously it could you one of two ways, either dropping one or the other base (the EMA base was very much a knee jerk reaction to bmi Baby's closure) or growing them (possibly a combination - say closing one base and enhancing the other). Maintaining the status quo at both bases looks to me to be unlikely.

All will surely be revealed in due course.

[gilesdavies]

Calm down everyone, the summer schedule is always staggered over a space of month.

They usually release them base by base. EMA and LBA are the two smallest bases, so they are going to want to focus the resources on the larger more important ones like Luton.

This time last year there were rumours that the Luton base would see an aircraft added for summer 2014 (which happened_ and another for summer 2015. Is it still looking likely we will see a sixth aircraft based at the airport for next year?

Last year the schedule was not updated to reflect the 5th airframe until about January.

[LNIDA]

Taking your reported comment at face value (i can't find it on Monarch's Facebook page) then it would suggest these two bases are at risk, the review is after all about 2 aircraft at each base, so not the biggest job in the world but there will have been contracts signed with airports and handlers and so on and of course staff considerations. Whilst i thought EMA was a good move to fill the post bmibaby vacuum, i never did get LBA, there is no synergy with Manchester so you will have crew standby costs to cover just two aircraft.

Going up against Jet2 with only 2 aircraft is daft, jet2 can quickly, very quickly price match against 4 outbound flights a day without having a material effect on their overall yield at Leeds, they should have put 4 aircraft in EMA and forget LBA

Monarch seem to be slow to respond and take for ever to make a decision, meanwhile Jet2 will have been taking 1000's of booking for next Summer at both Leeds & EMA whilst Monarch deliberate their options........the new management need to step up a gear or two

[111KAB]

Please don't shoot the messenger! All I did was copy and paste a response from the Monarch social team that has been repeated with constant regularity on their facebook page over the past couple of weeks. The loyal ZB/MON pax are wishing to complete early bookings for 2015 and the absence of LBA and EMA is causing concern in respect of hotel/villa bookings for next year. Many are mentioning the Jet2 availability. I accept that matters you read on a social media site mean didly squit however surely the senior bods at Monarch should 'control' their media team and not agree to comments if they are eventually proven to be incorrect.

[LNIDA]

111 KAB no shooting involved, i just had a quick look and couldn't see it, so i was just qualifying my comment based on your comment. good luck to all involved and lets hope for a positive outcome

[ATNotts]

LNIDA

Going up against Jet2 with only 2 aircraft is daft, jet2 can quickly, very quickly price match against 4 outbound flights a day without having a material effect on their overall yield at Leeds, they should have put 4 aircraft in EMA and forget LBA

Or vice versa.

[LNIDA]

AtNotts

I think 4 into EMA would have/could made more sense, Jet2 were still new-ish in EMA and ZB have a large presence in the Midlands through its BHX base, at Leeds ZB are the new boys and Jet2 are bound to defend there home turf.....just saying

[111KAB]

Does not bode well for LBA and EMA .... Jon Moulton circles turbulent Monarch as PwC stands by - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/11023938/Jon-Moulton-circles-turbulent-Monarch-as-PwC-stands-by.html)

[Balair]

Does not bode that well for Monarch...!

[ATNotts]

Does the "Torygraph" have a problem with Monarch?

I only ask as all the potentially negative stuff about Monarch seems to be originate from their business desk.

Perhaps it's the fact it's a wealthy Swiss family that owns them? - I don't know, it just seems odd.

[lagerlout]

Or perhaps they have an insight into the smoke and mirrors financing that has been keeping them afloat for the last five years?

[VickersVicount]

"Monarch and its owners are this weekend working to put together a proposal for a dramatic shake-up that is expected to see Monarch streamline its operations by shrinking its fleet, pulling out of unprofitable routes and scaling back from some bases"
Wonder how quickly any outcome of those discussions will appear....
LTN, MAN, LGW, BHX will be fine... as for any others... mmm
Long haul is a dead duck, that should be scrapped first.

[davidjohnson6]

ATNotts - maybe the Telegraph is being a little unfair, maybe it's being fair. I imagibe however there would be rather less of this sort of talk if Monarch had been showing strong profits in audited accounts over the last few years.

I know the years since 2008 have been hard, but other carriers have been making good money the last few years. Flybe has been through a turnaround in the last 18 months - perhaps someone with funds to invest has a view that a similiar action plan might benefit Monarch's long term prospects ?

[gilesdavies]

If Monarch were to pull out of EMA and LBA, it would be interesting to see if they would reposition those aircraft to other bases or do they have four aircraft where leases are due to expire before next summer.
(Not including the current 757's that are already leaving.)

Closing EMA and LBA must be a difficult decision if this happens, as it must have cost the airline a fortune to set these bases up. They got wet leased 737's in at very short notice to build these hubs up and got a lot of bad press, caused by using these wet-leased aircraft and lacking the service Monarch customers expected and all the issues with these aircraft going Tech. Then obtaining Airbus' A320's at short notice use at these bases. I would imagine they need to operate for several years from these bases to get a return on the investments they made.

I personally think Long Haul could also be pulled before next summer and get someone else to pick up the current schedule for next year or buy seats on Thomson/Thomas Cook/Virgin Flights.

If the lease on the A330's is not due to expire soon, I doubt there would be much problem to sub-lease them on to another that needs capacity.

[BKS Air Transport]

Some people have an interesting interpretation of 'scaling back from some bases.'


Is that not exactly what they have done from LGW, MAN etc?

[lagerlout]

Indeed still some big holes in their MAN schedule for next year!

Maybe there is more to come?

[Centre cities]

I thought that BHX and MAN were both one aircraft less for 2015. If there are gaps in the MAN schedule then a small amount of pruning or rescheduling could result in another aircraft less, or as you say more to come.

[paully]

Just had a recent flight with them and a very good experience..On time pushback, clean modern A321 with excellent cabin crew and good flight deck updates, all at a good price, so very sorry to see them in this mess.

To be fair they have been run by a series of no hopers and chancers for a long time. They have never been sure of their place in the market but were around long before Ryanair/Easy et al..Just had management without a vision, and were only ever able to react. Setting up a base at Leeds dominated by JET2 and Ryanair must set the likes of Jon Moulton shaking his head in wonderment. The Guys who set JET2 up are still there, still plugging away at their game plan so is O`Leary. Poor old Monarch have the Likes of Moulton licking his lips at them.

I wish them well, especially those who work for them and hope a plan does develop to see them into the future. Bon Chance:ok:

[INeedTheFull90]

To be honest they could have been FR/EZY but they've lacked vision and have just decided they're going to morph into a low cost airline when FR/EZY have long since reached critical mass. They're way late to the party. They're promising better service, but they're ULCC just like FR/EZY.

They've lacked focus and direction and have operated in a very haphazard way. Like a state airline they haven't been very efficient, and like a state airline they have had money behind them only this time the money isn't so forthcoming. Perhaps the Mantegazzas have grown tired of piling funds into this black hole.

I really cannot see where they can go from here. The product is bare bones. It'll take more than slimline pleather seats with an ipad holder to get me onto one of their jets. And that's the problem. I like me see planes as busses. They're all much of a muchness down the back and therefore flights are selected on price. Monarch has a higher cost base due to chronic inefficiencies and can't compete profitably on price.

Unless they really do go premium and add in catering, bags and the like. Maybe become the JetBlue of Europe - where the focus is on service and extras. They're up against some very stiff competition, now more than ever.

[111KAB]

Unfortunately I feel that Monarch as a privately owned company will always fail to compete with the stock listed Easy and Ryan. These PLC's can put out, for example, a profit warning and their shareholders acknowledge it and hold onto their shares whereas Monarch look for finance and suddenly they are in financial 'problems'. As mentioned Monarch were way ahead of Easy and Ryan but the owner(s) was so keen (possibly unlike Stalios) to hang onto what he had built up that sizeable expansion plans, which probably needed flotation, were out of the question - this is reflected in the fact that in the 'earlier' days aircraft ownership was the norm whereas leasing is now the way to go.


So faced with the possible 'acquisition' of 30 Boeings questions were raised as to the ability of a privately owned Company to fund this acquisition either by way of leasing or indeed the impossible outright purchase. Unfortunately times have passed them by (in terms of competing) but there is still time if they re-position themselves rather than taking on Easy and Ryan. Luggage costs/in flight meals/book in charges/service/hand baggage size + their Cosmos relationship are just a few ways they can distance themselves.


Just some of my thoughts - you have shot the messenger before so have a direct shot at me now!

[LNIDA]

111KAB I think your close to the mark with your comments, an old established company privately owned, trying to reinvent itself, but shackeled with legacy costs and more importantly working practices.

The telling sign is that of Price Waterhouse waiting in the wings to look at restructuring, to me it says the owners don't know what to do and are not willing to let the executive management do what they might want to do whilst the owners write more blank cheques.

[ZeBedie]

I hope Jon Moulton's reading this. It'l save him the consultants fees :}

[MKY661]

I think they should do more Enthusiast Trips. They always pretty much sell out as well and it's quite a unique feature :) It could do well to bring profits back up there.

Hope they get out of this situation as quickly as possible and hope it goes well for them :)

[davidjohnson6]

I would suggest that the very purpose of a stock market listing is to create a market to allow the easy buying and selling of shares in a company. The Mantegazza family might wish to sell their shareholding in Monarch but they will find it extremely difficult to find a single buyer who will offer a reasonable price. By contrast a pension fund with a 0.5 % shareholding of Easyjet can readily find a group of disparate buyers who combined will take up the pension fund's current stake.

A company with just a single shareholding can keep all meetings behind owner and directors behind closed doors. A plc listed on a stock market by necessity has to make its biannual meeting of directors and shareholders a very public affair. Anticipation of squirming in the public spotlight tends to make directors think very carefully about how best to run the company, and, more importantly, how to communicate that strategy to shareholders.

The sole recourse the Mantegazza family has for the time being in the event of a profit warning, is to fire the current directors and hire new ones - selling a large chunk of their shareholding just isn't possible. If shareholders in a plc listed on a stock exchange lose confidence, they will not just acknowledge a profit warning - they will rapidly reach for the "Sell" button on their broker's website.

[ATNotts]

davidjohnson6

Airlines are a long term business, the stock market is more interested in what goes on in the next 5 days than the next 5 years, and I honestly think that to float Monarch (or for that matter any airline) is a mistake as the "investors" are little more than gamblers in a grand way - they have no interest or knowledge of the businesses in which they invest, their sole aim is to sell their shares at a higher price than they bought them.

In a private company the shareholders an make decisions more quickly, and can of course, as has been suggested, in the case of Monarch, bring in new investor partners of their choice.

MKY661

Great idea these enthusiast flights, but honestly can't see how they're going to make a major contribution to the alleged problem (as reported by the Telegraph an few others as far as I can see) of profitability.

This lies, as it did / does with Flybe, with operating costs, overheads, and yield - all of which result in defining the profitability or otherwise of the company.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

I have this picture in my mind of eighty-six year old Sergio Mantegazza getting off his beautiful yacht in Monaco yesterday evening, climbing into his Maybach, and taking it for a spin up the Corniche. There he parked in that aire which overlooks Monaco, with the hilltop town of Eze over to the right, and watched the stunning full moon at twenty year perigee rising above the Med. Having read all this stuff on PPRuNE, he then sighed sadly and said to himself "Yes, yes, they're right, now I SEE where it all went wrong!"

(No, I don't think so either.)

[ATNotts]

Georgeablelovehowindia

Great post - love it!!:D

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Monarch have been one of the few UK great survivors with a great reputation with many repeat customers. Let's hope they get out of this and come out of the other side. There are fewer and fewer UK AOC's it would be a massive blow if anything untoward happened.
:\

[111KAB]

Monarch to stop charter flying in favour of low-cost scheduled - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/08/12/48993/monarch+to+stop+charter+flying+in+favour+of+low-cost+scheduled.html)


http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/08/13/48996/analysis+monarchs+vision+for+a+low+cost+sustainable+future.h tml

[StevieW]

That makes sense. Cease the flying that has been the bread and butter for the company, keeping it afloat for over 40 years, and focus on the operations that have dragged it into the mire.

There is still a market for charter operations, the number of charter flights from the UK has actually increased this Summer. I guess we'll be seeing a few extra Germania and Small Planet aircraft knocking about at LGW next Summer.

[ATNotts]

That makes sense. Cease the flying that has been the bread and butter for the company, keeping it afloat for over 40 years, and focus on the operations that have dragged it into the mire.


Really can't see where you're coming from here. Monarch Airlines recently recorded an operating profit for the first time in many years, by operating a majority scheduled network.

Reading both the reports in Travel Weekly it seams clear the airline wants / needs to reduce costs, become more efficient, more focused on one market segment, and most importantly I think the stated aim is not to chase growth. Consolidation on a lower cost base, and getting better revenues by reducing seat availability looks to me like a very good plan. One benefit on not being publicly quoted with external shareholders after a fast buck, is that you can admit to not chasing growth without spooking the markets.

Long haul appears to have had it's day too.

The "new brooms" look as though they have seen what Flybe has been able to do, and to be following a rather similar course, though in a somewhat different market. I'd be fairly confident they have a good plan which will succeed, and that should keep Mr. Mantegazza in Maybachs for a while to come!

[flybar]

Confusing message - do I read this that Thomas Cook will have to base their own aircraft at LBA next summer instead of chartering Monarch?

[TartinTon]

Cooks don't charter Monarch from LBA...they buy seats on the scheduled services.....the complication is that it looks like Monarch haven't made up their mind if they are going to offer LBA as a base for next year as yet as nothing is on sale

[horsebox]

Probably the Germania's and Small Planets with lower costs, that are squeezing Monarch away from the charter market.

The press reports read two ways. Either Monarch is in trouble or the existing owners want some fresh investment and business acumen on board.

[anothertyke]

Can someone remind me--what exactly is a charter these days? Is it a whole planeload sold off to a single operator who then takes the risk on selling the seats? In commercial terms, is there really much difference between that and tour operators buying blocks of seats with MON selling the rest direct? I can see there's some difference in where the risk lies and therefore what the price has to be but is it significant?

[toledoashley]

I think the reasoning would be that it gives them flexibility over their yield. Tour ops sometimes dump their unused seating into the market below what they paid for them. With better management, and tour operators taking more modest allocations Monarch will be able to sell the remaining seats at a representative cost.

[qwertyuiop]

^^^^^^^^^^ The most sensible post for ages.^^^^^^^^^^

[SCANDIC]

Will Monarch be ok. Can they survive these tough times.

[anothertyke]

Thanks Toledo I get the control point now.

[DannyJB]

MONARCH AIRLINES TO STOP FLYING FROM EAST MIDLANDS BASE IN 2015

Luton, UK – 14th August, 2014 – Monarch Airlines today announces that it will cease flying from its base at East Midlands Airport by the end of April 2015.
The decision to close the base is part of a strategic review under the leadership of Andrew Swaffield, who was recently appointed Chief Executive of The Monarch Group. Through a review of its network strategy, the Airline is focussing on offering customers greater flight frequency and more sociable departure times to short-haul European destinations from its main UK bases. These changes are already reflected in Monarch’s summer 2015 schedule, much of which is already on sale. The Airline expects to add more flights to its programme for next summer in the coming months.
The change is part of the next phase in Monarch’s transformation to become a scheduled European low-cost carrier. Monarch aims to complete the transition in advance of the arrival of its new narrow-bodied aircraft fleet of thirty Boeing 737 MAX8s, announced last month, which are expected to start entering service in 2018.
Andrew Swaffield, Chief Executive of The Monarch Group, commented:“I would like to thank all our customers who have used Monarch’s services at East Midlands Airport in the two years that we have been there. I would also like to pay tribute to our employees for all that they have done to bring the warmth, humanity and personal touch that should be our hallmark to our services at East Midlands Airport.”
“Monarch’s success in the future depends upon us delivering the best possible operation and quality of service for our customers – and at sustainable levels of profitability. It is for these reasons that we are taking important decisions to reshape our base network and flying schedule next year.
“As holiday habits change, our customers want a greater choice of flight times and destinations – particularly for short breaks. As we evolve from our roots in charter flying to become a scheduled European low-cost carrier we are becoming more focussed in the services we offer which we believe will provide customers overall with a more attractive flying schedule in the future.”
Monarch’s base at Birmingham is the nearest alternative for customers used to flying with the Airline from East Midlands Airport and is only 37 road miles away. Monarch has recently launched its schedule for summer 2015 from Birmingham.

[leisurelad]

Monarch to pull out of East Midlands - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2014/08/14/49018/monarch-to-pull-out-of-east-midlands.html)

[MKY661]

Have on my mind that BHX-MLA will be a new route then :)

[DannyJB]

So now we wait on LBA news?

When can we expect that?

[Bearpit]

Interesting Leeds is still not on sale for S15....two aircraft...same competitors as EMA. Must be a worry for anyone based in Yorkshire.

[HOODED]

I would have thought LBA would be the next pulled given the LS/RYR competition. It depends on if a 2 ac base is cost effective. I hope they stay but it is looking ominous given nothing on sale yet.

[ATNotts]

Interesting Leeds is still not on sale for S15....two aircraft...same competitors as EMA. Must be a worry for anyone based in Yorkshire.

The fact the the news release only mentions one base for the chop suggests a brighter future for the other (LBA) as from a PR point of view it's better to get all the negative news out in one release, rather than drip feeding it over two.

This could also suggest that the 2 units being lost from EMA might be moved into LBA, making a bigger, more efficient base - or alternatively BHX, MAN, LTN or LGW getting extra units, with more routes / frequencies to be announced in due course.

All conjecture - as I have absolutely no inside knowledge!!

[MKY661]

They also a Sponsor for Leeds United too I believe so unless this deal will fall through this could also expand on ATNotts point :)

[Burnie5204]

So at EMA you have:

RYR reporting good passenger figures and are constantly expanding
LS reporting good passenger figures and are constantly expanding
BE reporting good figures and are expanding routes
BMI reporting good figures and are expanding
TOM reporting good figures and are expanding
TCX reporting good figures
The Airport being flagged as being of National Strategic Importance for expansion
The Airport being raised in the House of Commons as a strong Airport with an excellent future
Total Passenger figures up by 4-5% so Pax clearly want to Fly EMA
Revenue up 7% with profit now better than pre-recession
Passenger figures getting back towards the all-time high

MON always have high passenger load factors on their 'All scheduled' route program, all routes at all times are popular (even the late night IBZs), good OTP, rarely have any problems.

But yet MON are pulling out of EMA and ONLY EMA....

[crewmeal]

I guess the new MD thinks there isn't a future at EMA with all the other similar operators and that MON should concentrate on BHX & MAN.

They say a 'new broom sweeps clean', but in this case will MON be leaner and cleaner? Time will tell.

[VickersVicount]

what will become of the A330 Orlando charters ?

[SWBKCB]

Rumour has it that they got a very good deal to move into LBA, and if that's the case I would expect its not a deal they can drop easily

[lagerlout]

It can be the best deal in the world but if the base still loses money they won't be hanging around.

I hear that some of their load factors on Leeds routes have been a bit sketchy... but maybe that's just hearsay.

[G-FORZ]

Consolidation of Yorkshire & North East Midlands operations at DSA?

Peel should never have lost sight of the deal in the first place to LBA

[flybar]

It can be the best deal in the world but if the base still loses money they won't be hanging around.

I hear that some of their load factors on Leeds routes have been a bit sketchy... but maybe that's just hearsay.

Load Factor is one thing but it is yield that matters!

[SCANDIC]

I can see the long haul cease and the 330's gone in the next year or two.

[onyxcrowle]

Consolidation at DSA???. Is that being considered???????

[crosswind11]

Rumour is they will no longer be sponsoring Leeds United.

[LNIDA]

What impact will these changes have on employment at Monarch

Long haul will likely have a higher number of crew per aircraft than short haul & small bases such as LBA & EMA will likely have a higher crew per aircraft ratio due to standby cover.

[Channex258]

I was under the impression Monarchs LBA crew are duel based with MAN aswell?
Given the seasonality of ZB ops at Leeds, and the aircraft reduction in Winter, are majority of the cabin crew summer temps?
Still quite a sad state of affairs.

onyxcrowle
I tip my hat to you for your continued support for DSA. But if Monarch can't make money at LBA/EMA, it's unlikely they'd plonk the four aircraft they've pulled from those two stations and base them at Donny.