Monarch - 3

[nigel osborne]

On current form Monarch will break the announcement on the 12th day with 20 mins to go before the deadline expires.:ouch:

[Brigantee]

Surely they wont repeat that mistake again and i guess the CAA must have been pretty confident the funding /investment is there in order to grant a extension after all that had happened

Who actually picks up the tab for the "rescue" flights if the company involved carries on trading ?

[Callum Paterson]

Surely they wont repeat that mistake again and i guess the CAA must have been pretty confident the funding /investment is there in order to grant a extension after all that had happened

Who actually picks up the tab for the "rescue" flights if the company involved carries on trading ?

I guess ATOL? So in essance holiday-makers who are daft enough to pay above the odds for a "protected" tacky package holiday.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

tacky package holiday.

Bit of an over generalisation there. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have benefitted from such protection in the past, and many who didn't have it because they made their own holiday and ended up stuck.

Let's all hope for some positive news with regard to the intended investment sooner rather than later, I'm sure the CAA are fed up with late night last minute negotiations.

[Rushed Approach]

Considering the Monarch Pension fund owns ten percent of the airline, at a minimum that will be diluted with new shareholder investment.

At least someone knows (along with the FT, but unlike the rest of the press) who owns the other 10%.

[Rushed Approach]

which has had 3 bail outs in less than 3 years

Could someone tell me who made these 3 "bail outs" in that timescale"? "Bail out" in that context implies that one or more in the sequence has lost money.

Previous owners (name beginning with the "M" on the tails) put some money in in 2014 but ended up selling the business as a going concern minus several hundred million in pension deficit. Some would say that was a result for them (hugely reducing their liabilities) i.e. the investor has profited and what was their airline keeps going. There's absolutely nothing to stop them buying it back later.

Greybull, being shrewd investors, saw an opportunity and put in a sum in 2014 and if they were to sell all of their share (or a portion) now they would realise a profit, Monarch having been in profit last year and this, with a world-class EBITDA. So again the investor has profited.

There seems to be an assumption that smaller airlines cannot make a profit, but they can if their costs are in line with their competitors, as Monarch's very much now are.

IF a foreign investor wanted to invest in European aviation post Brexit, why not buy an airline that has passed the test of being able to adapt to market conditions and be competitive with the likes of FR and easy? A company's main asset is its people, and by all accounts the Monarch Group's people are its greatest asset, so interest from investors outside the EU in a profitable airline in the current post-Brexit situation to me seems inevitable.

[DC9_10]

I would not like to see Monarch go to the wall, however if anyone thinks that great people can save an airline, then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. You can do the best you can but if the boys at the top think differently then all is in vain. Just like the amazing people at Midland, myself included were to find out. I got out before the Lufthansa takeover. Someone posted earlier that Monarch were well known in England and just an opinion but England is not the UK. As I said before, I would never consider booking with them and certainly not now, but good luck to them mostly the employees.

[Brigantee]

I dont think anyone said great people alone could save a business, However at the end of the day the staff are very often what sets a company apart and having a onside driven workforce is a great asset especially in aviation

Didn't Midland choose monarch engineering to look after their 330 long haul operation DC9? .....

[DC9_10]

Yes Midland did have Monarch at Manchester. I fail to see however, any relevance an engineering contract from quite a few years ago has anything to do with their current predicament now.

[Brigantee]

Just found it interesting midland who had of course a main engineering base at manchester chose to entrust the task of maintaining their flagship long haul operation to monarch engineers ...

[DC9_10]

Manchester was never a main engineering base for Midland. It was the same as all other outstations with based engineers covering turnaround and nightstopping frames. All heavy maintenance was performed at Heathrow or East Mids. Saab and Embrier at Abz.

[Brigantee]

It certainly had a significant line operation that could have looked after the 330 operation had midland choosen to let its own people look after the aircraft rather than contract monarch to do so ...However im sure they had their reasons .

Monarch did not do the base maintenace as i recall only the line operation , Didn't Lufthansa do the heavy mainteance in the phillipines ?

[DC9_10]

As far as I recall, only two engineers were on shift at any one time. They could never have covered the A330 ops. Regional was covered by a third party company also. Heavy maintenance on the A330 was indeed performed by Lufthansa, however I don't know the location.

[luvly jubbly]

I've been there. More than once.

It never came.

Hoping for a sunnier outlook for those involved.

[regularpassenger]

Has the "shadow airline" returned home yet? (beyond the Miami air)

[bjones4]

N120UA has just left TFS bound for IAD.

[WHBM]

Any truth in the rumour that Transport Secretary Chris Grayling was given a right chewing out by PM Theresa May for authorising the chartering in of the 747s from the US with government funds, picked up by enthusiasts and which got into social and thus the wider media and opened Monarch up to all sorts of unsteadying comments.

Grayling has become known for a range of stupidities in government, and with this decision only weeks after his appointment it seems the knives may be out for him.

[janeyTA]

I guess ATOL? So in essance holiday-makers who are daft enough to pay above the odds for a "protected" tacky package holiday.

I think you perhaps don't understand what a package holiday is. Atol is not just for packages either (which aren't all tacky by any means). Flight plus bookings and quite a lot of flight only sales are protected as well, which is which there are 3 types of Atol certificates.

[Brigantee]

WHBM , If that's the case then its hardly surprising the knives are out for Grayling...

Incredible if it turns out this was all brought about by a ill advised decision by a senior government figure

[KyleRB]

Did someone say the government would never get involved!!??

[All names taken]

Any truth in the rumour that Transport Secretary Chris Grayling was given a right chewing out by PM Theresa May for authorising the chartering in of the 747s from the US with government funds, picked up by enthusiasts and which got into social and thus the wider media and opened Monarch up to all sorts of unsteadying comments.

You were right to point out this is just a rumour but if there is any truth in it, I wouldn't be surprised to see Greybull's lawyers getting involved as this has clearly damaged the Monarch brand

[Brigantee]

Dead right if it is true they want taking to the cleaners , Anything in the press about this story?

[Buster the Bear]

Travel trade views.

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/trade-voices-monarch-support--but-fears-lack-of-clarity-7110

[ZeBedie]

Would the CAA require ministerial authorisation to charter jets? Would the PM be very interested in the case of Monarch? All seems a bit unlikely to me.

[Brigantee]

I would have thought the fate of a reputable long established airline group that provides a lot of jobs and in many cases well paid jobs plus has over the years trained many young people in highly technical skills should concern them..

[ZeBedie]

Maybe, but

Any truth in the rumour that Transport Secretary Chris Grayling was given a right chewing out by PM Theresa May for authorising the chartering in of the 747s from the US with government funds

doesn't ring true to me a) it wasn't government funds b) why would TM be so vexed? c) how would anyone get to hear about the alleged chewing out? d) why are none of the news media mentioning it?

[Rushed Approach]

Last Friday (the day Monarch's three ATOLs were renewed) I met up with a friend whose relative had quoted to her a senior politician who had apparently commented on the Monarch situation at a party that her relative had attended in London.

Anecdotally, it seems that the situation is being discussed at cabinet level. I would expect the PM to be at least briefed on any potential negative company news (particularly post-Brexit) before she finds out on the News at Ten.

However, if true (and I have no reason to doubt my source) in my view it is totally inappropriate for one of her cabinet ministers to then be discussing and expressing opinions about the matter at social events.

[Jonty]

Well, they have one more week.

[KelvinD]

I wouldn't worry about the one more week. One of the United 747s (N120UA) has now flown back to Washington and is due to soon depart to SFO.

[Brigantee]

Given the cost that was expended on rescue flights (which i gather have been stood down) the CAA must have been pretty confident in monarchs incoming investment to grant a extension given the last thing they would want is a repeat performance a week or so later

[Jonty]

That's good news, looks like the money is on its way then.

Is the 747 still in TFS?

[pwalhx]

Very good, apart from it was a Social Media furore that started things the press were later to the party

[Alloy]

The TFS 747 is back in the USA.

[Widger]

My cousin has a friend who has a friend that went to a party where they overheard that Lord Sugar was going to jump in and buy up the company to expand AMSAIR.


Will you all listen to yourselves! I know this is a rumour network but this is all pathetic playground tittle tattle. Unless you have facts and can cite the source, I suggest you stop posting such drivel.

:ugh:

[Wickerbill]

Well said Widger. This thread is riddled with Bullpoo.

[sdh2903]

As far as I recall, only two engineers were on shift at any one time. They could never have covered the A330 ops. Regional was covered by a third party company also. Heavy maintenance on the A330 was indeed performed by Lufthansa, however I don't know the location.

Haha that's funny. You should really take a look at line station engineering, with exception of BigAirways. There are many cases of single engineer turnarounds on wide bodies everywhere! Even at home bases.

[nigel osborne]

I think far more importantly is the future.

Monarch still have another 6 days to sign the investors contract so no worries yet.

However you do wonder with Monarch recent form whether it will be announced with 30 mins to go on the 12th day.

Sure it will be sorted out by 12th or perhaps they can get another extension.

Trouble is every day its not announced they are loosing business. Know loads of people who are not booking with Monarch for the winter or early spring..Sooner its announced the better for bookings.

[Brigantee]

I guess monarch are very well aware of the impact this is having on bookings and are doubtless anxious to get it sorted ASAP

Im not sure what the issue is is it the cost of the licence or is it the new investment the CAA need to see?

[spottilludrop]

Looks like Monarchs about to pull a rabbit out of the hat ...Who would have thought it

[Rushed Approach]

Everyone is assuming it's a simplistic case of when some money is arriving at the CAA. That's rather simplistic in the current situation.

It's much more likely there are other time constraints involved too involving multiple parties all with their own deadlines and agendas, hence a realistic extension to the middle of next week.

[spottilludrop]

Big investment from a non EU country by all accounts, Bound to be a little involved ,Good luck to them , Could well be a game changer for them

[davidjohnson6]

Of the 12 day reprieve, 6 of those days have now passed. Furthermore, accountants, lawyers, bankers and the whole corporate infrastructure functions at weekends only in a limited fashion and if someone somewhere is paying big bucks. That means there are just 4 fully usable days to pull a deal together and get everyone to sign on the dotted line. I really hope this does come together (disclaimer - I will lose financially if Monarch don't make it through to 2017) but time is now running short.

[Brigantee]

HNA if the rumours are true .
If they are really investing in them cash flow should not be a issue thats for sure.

[Brigantee]

There is no way the CAA would have granted a extension unless they were very confident of investement coming in IMHO

Its a done deal .

[davidjohnson6]

Brigantee - it *should* all come together, but until the relevant investors sign on the line and money is moved in the banking system, it's all theoretical.

If Monarch have even the slightest common sense, they will be shouting to the rooftops that a deal has been done, money injected into the company, press will report it, consumer confidence in Monarch will return and money form ticket sales will start flooding into the company again. The fact that after 6 days nothing has been mentioned in the press tells me that people involved haven't yet signed on the line or money has not been moved in the banking system.

Verbal assurances sound nice but when push comes to shove those verbal assurances usually count for nothing.

[Brigantee]

On the contrary perhaps monarch are being very sensible not shouting anything from the rooftops until its a one hundred percent cast iron done deal and until thats the case i would not expect to hear anything

Doubtless they are very aware of the impact uncertainty has on the market and are moving as fast as they can in what is likely to be be a very complex undertaking

[FANS]

I think most of us are bullish that Monarch will get this done. No one's surprised it hasn't been done yet - it's just part and parcel of the shambles that is the monarch board.

[Brigantee]

I think fans there must be good reasons why this is taking so i long to coclude I think without the full facts of this whole episode and none of us are privvy to those at present its maybe a bit unfair to judge

Once things are out in the public domain for better or worse then conclusions may be more fairly drawn ..Just my take on it all

[FANS]

I'm sure there are many reasons why it's taking so long.

None of which help the customers and employees a bit.

On a positive, there will presumably be a completion bonus payable to all staff with this huge and unprecedented investment, which reflects their importance to the business and is a small apology for the horrific time they have been through.

[Brigantee]

If its a positive outcome in the end it may well prove in the long term to have been worth it to both customers and staff...lets hope so

[Heathrow Harry]

In deals like this the lawyers drag things out until the last minute finding more more obscure issues (and charges) and the finance guys hold on to try and extort an even better deal from the victim

Unfortunately sometimes it DOESN'T all come together at the last moment............

[Copenhagen]

The GBP:USD means a foreign investment in ZB is cheaper today than yesterday, but will also seriously spook foreign investors. GBP fluctuations are making the Zimbabwean dollar look like a safe haven.

The sterling devaluation also killed EZY profits, which demonstrates how brexit uncertainty has impacted UK airlines.

[HeartyMeatballs]

They still made close to a half billion in profits which ain't all that bad. It's the share price and compaitave cheapness of buying the airline in £ which is the risk to eJ right now.

[Brigantee]

Half a billion? Thought it was around 40 million

[nigel osborne]

Yes 40 million profit but no taxes are previous years loss rolled forward.

Fingers crossed it will all be announced early next week.

[HundredPercentPlease]

The sterling devaluation also killed EZY profits,
They still made close to a half billion in profits
Half a billion? Thought it was around 40 million

Estimated £490m to £495m.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/06/easyjet-set-for-annual-profit-fall-year-extraordinary-events

Though you may be confusing Monarch and eJ at this point.

[SAXONBLOKE]

HH, You've previously said that you wouldn't like Monarch to go bust. It certainly doesn't sound like it, or it at least it sounds like you'd enjoy it to play out like some knife-edge, high tension drama. Hundreds and hundreds of people's livelihoods are tied up in all this and everyone is aware what could possibly happen. So why don't you just get a life, stop the doom and gloom speculation and wait and see what happens.

[INKJET]

Brexit is no doubt a factor in easyJets reduced profitability, but not the whole story by a long way, they have also lost load factor, LGW delays, French ATC, Sharm the list goes on add terror attacks in France, Turkey and boat people in the Greek Islands, pick what every you like, having said that these issues affect many airlines, meanwhile Ryanair and Norwegian are showing volume growth and increased load factor.

EasyJets cost base is I suspect higher than either of the above

[toledoashley]

Ryanair and Norwegian are less dependant on the pound (Ryanair € and Norwegian NOK/€), with Monarch and easyJet more pound based (hence why it is likely to hit them more).

The current devolution of the pound has highlighted the need to keeps costs down and that will be a challenge for whoever takes over Monarch.

[LGS6753]

Monarch are dependent on the £ because most of their pax pay in £ yet some of their costs are in dollars (Fuel) or Euros (handling, nav charges, etc).
EasyJet on the other hand have a huge euro revenue, so are less exposed to sterling weakness.

[spottilludrop]

Well said Saxon , HH does seem to be getting off on the whole drama .

As you say its peoples livelihoods at stake .

[Copenhagen]

Aircraft leases, fuel, overseas handling, nav charges and overseas staffing are up to 20% more expensive then they were a year ago, just because of brexit uncertainty.

I would bet that 90% + of ZB revenue is in GBP.

[Heathrow Harry]

Just trying to add a bit of realism - and it IS a high tension drama - they only have a very limited time to come up with the cash. History shows that some companies make it and some don't.... but sitting with your hands over your ears and hoping it will all go away isn't a very wise option TBH

I've been in a couple of companies that have hit the wall and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The personal anguish and disruption are really horrible

I've flown on Monarch reasonably often and have always thought they were at the better end of the spectrum for what it's worth. It would be terrible shame to lose them.

[Malchester]

Hi

I am sure that Monarch would not make any announcements while discussions are ongoing and will only say something when everything is signed, sealed and delivered. I would not read anything in to the fact that there has not been any announcements so far. Hope things are going on OK

[01475]

I guess part of the reason for the silence is that Monarch's press release about the temporary extension was worded carefully so as to have the effect that someone who didn't know about the issues would think it was saying that the problem was permanently resolved.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I'd have to side with HH here, a hint of realism is what is necessary.

I don't believe any professional pilot would wish for any airline to go down the swanny, even if that airline is in direct competition with the one we work for. Having been there, as many many of us have, some on more that one or two occasions we wouldn't wish it on anybody. There was a supposed investor standing in the wings when the airline that I worked for went under, sadly the investment didn't materialise despite the promises.

[Brigantee]

You must have read a different pres realease than i did , The one i read stated clearly the licence had been extended until the 12th when they expected it to be renewed

[eggc]

Breaking news on Sky. £160m investment by shareholders to be announced on Wednesday. Included in announcement is a deal with Boeing to sell and lease back the 45 new a/c they have on order that will free up significant additional funds ?? Typical shallow depth of knowledge from the press, so that Boeing deal as they described it made little sense, Wednesday should reveal more.

[CSman]

See SKY News, Monarch seem to have had help from Boeing Reporter not quite clear of the facts at this time

[spottilludrop]

Boeing flies to Monarch's rescue with restructured fleet deal (http://news.sky.com/story/boeing-flies-to-monarchs-rescue-with-restructured-fleet-deal-10609656)

[Brigantee]

More old news rehashed by the press?

[Brigantee]

Only part of the story i guess , Sky just recycling news

[01475]

You must have read a different pres realease than i did , The one i read stated clearly the licence had been extended until the 12th when they expected it to be renewed

Apparently I did, and the one I saw is what they're giving customers;

http://blog.monarch.co.uk/monarch-reaches-atol-licence-agreement-and-secures-funding/


Monarch reaches ATOL licence agreement and secures funding

(Luton, UK – 30 September 2016) Monarch has successfully concluded discussions with the Civil Aviation Authority (“CAA”) to extend its ATOL licence, for which it thanks the CAA. The company has also received significant further investment from shareholders and is close to announcing the largest investment in its 48-year history.

Monarch continues to fly and looks forward to welcoming customers on board.

Andrew Swaffield, Chief Executive Officer of The Monarch Group, commented:

“I am delighted that we have been able to come to an agreement with the CAA on the extension of Monarch’s ATOL licence and am excited about the additional capital coming into the group which will help us fund our future growth. I am immensely proud of the professionalism of the Monarch team.”

It's not dishonest, but it wouldn't be read by a customer to take the correct understanding of the situation.

[Brigantee]

The current situation is the CAA have extended their current licence ....Which is what it states , How could that be construed as dishonest ?

[SWBKCB]

Depends what you mean by dishonest, but certainly incomplete - I don't see any mention of 12 days?

The CAA statement is below (my underlining)


CAA statement on the extension of Monarch ATOL licences (30 September 2016)

The CAA has granted Monarch a 12 day extension to its existing ATOL licences. The extended licences will now expire at 23:59 on 12 October 2016.


“The CAA has granted Monarch a 12 day extension to its existing ATOL licences. The extended licences will now expire at 23:59 on 12 October 2016. The CAA was able to do this by requiring the shareholder to provide additional funding and because customers' money will be protected.

“Monarch now has 12 days to satisfy the CAA that the group is able to meet the requirements for a full ATOL licence. Monarch will remain ATOL licensed until this extension expires.

“The CAA always advises consumers to ensure they book ATOL-protected air holidays and consumers who choose to book an ATOL-protected flight or holiday with the company during this time will continue to be protected by the ATOL scheme.

“During this period of extension, the CAA will continue to monitor the company.”




https://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-statement-on-the-extension-of-Monarch-ATOL-licences-(30-September-2016)/

[01475]

The language, and phrases like "Monarch reaches ATOL licence agreement and secures funding" and "successfully concluded discussions" wouldn't lead the reader to think of an extension of less than two weeks.

As I said, it isn't dishonest. But it would have yhe effect that someone who didn't know about the issues would think it was saying that the problem was permanently resolved. And for that reason they wouldn't go posting updates until it actually was.

[Maxfli]

Firstly, best wishes to all at Monarch and hopefully the restructured deal provides a secure platform for the future for all.

The currency instability £ / $ (1.55 down to 1.25) sets out much of the present difficulty and the trend, if it continues, shows what lies ahead. Irrespective of how well your fuel is hedged or how good a deal you struck with a manufacturer, if you face an adverse currency shift to the tune of 25%, it presents a serious challenge to all UK operators.

The cost of leisure travel to the US is now out of reach for many in the UK and that will impact on us all.

[Buster the Bear]

More detail here.

Monarch is understood to be close to agreeing a revised aircraft order with Boeing that could help to secure the company’s future.

Sky News reports that Monarch is putting the final touches on a refinancing deal centred around the purchase of 45 aircraft announced in 2014.

The financial restructuring is understood to include sale and lease-back agreements which would free up crucial cashflow for the carrier.

Monarch was granted a 12-day extension on its Atol renewal on Friday last week, in order for it to confirm further financial investment and reassure the CAA that it was in a sound position to continue trading.

The Sky News report says the refinancing with Boeing was likely to contribute to £165 million investment package which will also see Monarch’s owners Greybull Capital inject more capital into the company.

The report quotes from an email sent by chief executive Andrew Swaffield to Monarch employees, which strikes an upbeat tone but warns that a final announcement on the company’s Atol renewal was unlikely to be made before the deadline day of Wednesday this week.

The email said: "I was at the CAA on Monday and have been spending a lot of time over the last two days with our legal and finance teams, as we dot the i's and cross the t's on the largest investment in our history - on the back of which we expect the CAA to renew our licences and which will help us move into the next stage of our growth and development.

"It's been another busy week for all of us following the events of last Friday and the extension to our Atol licences.

"All parts of the business are working hard, both to keep things 'business as usual' and maintain consumer and customer confidence, in the face of continued media and social media commentary and speculation.

"As soon as we are able to give details of our investment and confirm the renewal I will.

"But to manage your expectations, this will be on the 12th (Wednesday).

"As said before, there is a process the business must follow and this takes time."

Monarch, Boeing and Greybull were all unavailable for comment, Sky reported.

[Brigantee]

Seems bizarre that the matter is going to run all the way to yet another deadline

Either the CAA are happy or they aint.....

[KyleRB]

Brigantee

You can't seem to decide what you think! It's been back and forth with your opinions as I have observed these last few weeks!

So much pontification going on here, do folks not have anything better to do??

The reason it will run through until the 12th is because this date was preset as an announcement date within Monarch even before it was public news!

There is lots going on behind the scenes that no one here has a clue about but keep pontificating and calling it 'bizarre' if that's your penchant! :rolleyes::p

[Brigantee]

Sorry ive upset you , However bizzare to me sums up the whole episode , And i guess as this is a rumour website then its going to be rife with rumour .....

Not noticed much pontificating occuring TBH more like people simply expressing their view on the matter in a fairly level and reasoned manner

[chaps1954]

It`s not bizarre knowing what can happen in business or not even, have seen the what can happen
recently to 2 companies that have been turned upside down and if we knew the real story
we would just keep quiet because it will be settled when it can be.

[FANS]

Interesting if Boeing are the main source of funds!

[Brigantee]

Could someone who knows about these matters please explain what boeing are actually doing to give monarch new funding ? i'm afraid how aircraft are bought is something i know zilch about

[runway30]

If a 3rd party leasing company took over the order with the intention of leasing the aircraft back to Monarch, Boeing could return the aircraft deposits to Monarch.

[FANS]

Supplier financing is a creative solution. I suppose what is Boeing's/finance house's downside - if the company goes bust, it's got the aircraft.

It can't be cheap money though, otherwise other airlines may throw their toys out.

[KyleRB]

I believe this type of arrangement is used by other UK airlines like Easyjet and Ryanair. Great for building up cash reserves to ride out the winter and possible downturns.

[gilesdavies]

Could someone who knows about these matters please explain what boeing are actually doing to give monarch new funding ? i'm afraid how aircraft are bought is something i know zilch about


According to a post in another forum, Boeing is not actually the financier of the 737's for Monarch, they suggested the assistance they are likely to be offering is:

- Flexibility on the aircraft deliveries, by delaying them without financial penalties.
- Possibly improved payment terms, there the airline can pay for each aircraft on delivery instead of a huge payment up-front.

The person writing this in the other forum suggested, by the airline having more flexible terms to take the aircraft, could improve the airlines cash balance, on how much is in the bank at anyone time.

Seems to make a lot of sense.

[INKJET]

Well reading the various press reports it beggars belief that this is going to the wire, but at least no news of 747's flying all over Europe to pre position which i guess must be positive.

Fingers crossed we don't wake up to bad news...

[Brigantee]

Reading the email sent to staff its clear id say they have no choice in the matter for whatever reason

As you say no rescue flights arranged so the CAA must expect everything to be sorted albeit at the death

[ATNotts]

As Monarch aren't a quoted business on the stock exchange there's no reason why they should say anything, very possibly the deal has already been done and they've got a press release all lined up for tomorrow.

Mind you if I were them I'd be shouting about any deal from the rooftops to encourage any wavering customers to book their seats tut-suite.

[KyleRB]

Oh boy you lot really love a good melodrama!

'Down to the wire', 'at the death'!! Yawn!!!! :rolleyes:

Tomorrow has been prearranged as 'the date'.

To those not in the know and without experience of such matters, it all appears very lastminute.com.

Tomorrow will reveal all!

[Callum Paterson]

Ummm isn't lastminute.com (aside from a business) just another way of saying "Down to the wire" and "at the death?

[KyleRB]

Like I said, it appears very last minute but in actuality this date has been prearranged between all the parties. The CAA I would bet are fully in the loop.

It's not last minute to those in the know!

[Callum Paterson]

AFAIA it's more a deadline than a prearranged date.

[Junta Leader]

BBC Reporting a £165m investment from Greybull. Good news for all at MON; tough times recently.

And, in their own words: http://blog.monarch.co.uk/165-million-investment-in-monarch/

[Whiskey Zulu]

£165 million investment in Monarch - Monarch Blog (http://blog.monarch.co.uk/165-million-investment-in-monarch/)

[Alex Whittingham]

Greybull announce £165m of fresh financing Monarch airline wins £165m investment from Greybull - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37628348)

[wallp]

BBC Reporting a £165m investment from Greybull. Good news for all at MON; tough times recently.

And, in their own words: £165 million investment in Monarch - Monarch Blog (http://blog.monarch.co.uk/165-million-investment-in-monarch/)

Good news indeed. Let's hope all at MON can now begin to move forward positively and overcome the damage that must've been done to their reputation in recent weeks especially.

MON is a fantastic brand and I hope this investment allows it to move forward and figure out where and how it can thrive

[Heathrow Harry]

Looks good!

Beeb:-
UK airline Monarch has settled worries over its future by agreeing a £165m investment from Greybull Capital.

The fresh financing has allowed the airline to renew its membership of the Air Travel Organisers' Licensing (Atol) scheme - the scheme that refunds customers if a travel firm collapses. It also means the airline can invest in new aircraft.

Greybull Capital is Monarch's majority shareholder and is also known for its investment in Scunthorpe's (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-36015667) steelworks. It bought a majority stake in Monarch in 2014, with a reported investment of £125m.

"It is testament to the extensive effort by all parties, over the past weeks and months, that we are able to announce the largest investment in our 48-year history, as well as the renewal of our Atol licences," said Andrew Swaffield, chief executive of the Monarch Group.

In October 2014, Monarch announced an order for 30 of the latest Boeing 737 jets, with an option to buy 15 more. It expects to take delivery of the first of those in 2018.

After three weeks of drama, Monarch lives to fly another day. How long the holiday airline retains its independence, however, remains open to question. This morning's bailout - there is no detail on what form the extra £165m from owners Greybull Capital will take - is enough to satisfy the Civil Aviation Authority, but will not remove doubts about its long-term prospects. The airline's strength in flights to the western Mediterranean, Egypt and North Africa has become its Achilles' heel as terror attacks have dented demand to those destinations. On top of those short-term trading challenges, Monarch remains caught between the big low-cost airlines EasyJet and Ryanair, and the in-house airlines owned by the big tour operators including Tui and Thomas Cook.

Securing the company's future will require to find a profitable niche that it can defend from both those types of voracious competitors. The alternative may be a merger with a rival.

[Heathrow Harry]

Beeb report:-

UK airline Monarch has settled worries over its future by agreeing a £165m investment from Greybull Capital.

The fresh financing has allowed the airline to renew its membership of the Air Travel Organisers' Licensing (Atol) scheme - the scheme that refunds customers if a travel firm collapses. It also means the airline can invest in new aircraft.

Greybull Capital is Monarch's majority shareholder and is also known for its investment in Scunthorpe's (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-36015667) steelworks. It bought a majority stake in Monarch in 2014, with a reported investment of £125m.

"It is testament to the extensive effort by all parties, over the past weeks and months, that we are able to announce the largest investment in our 48-year history, as well as the renewal of our Atol licences," said Andrew Swaffield, chief executive of the Monarch Group.

In October 2014, Monarch announced an order for 30 of the latest Boeing 737 jets, with an option to buy 15 more. It expects to take delivery of the first of those in 2018.

After three weeks of drama, Monarch lives to fly another day. How long the holiday airline retains its independence, however, remains open to question. This morning's bailout - there is no detail on what form the extra £165m from owners Greybull Capital will take - is enough to satisfy the Civil Aviation Authority, but will not remove doubts about its long-term prospects. The airline's strength in flights to the western Mediterranean, Egypt and North Africa has become its Achilles' heel as terror attacks have dented demand to those destinations. On top of those short-term trading challenges, Monarch remains caught between the big low-cost airlines EasyJet and Ryanair, and the in-house airlines owned by the big tour operators including Tui and Thomas Cook.

Securing the company's future will require to find a profitable niche that it can defend from both those types of voracious competitors. The alternative may be a merger with a rival.

[chaps1954]

Don`t forget Jet2 who are now a major competitor in the UK market and moving south to an airport near you.

[Skipness One Echo]

Securing the company's future will require to find a profitable niche that it can defend from both those types of voracious competitors. The alternative may be a merger with a rival.
They've given themselves six months to sell out to Jet2 or close surely.

[paully]

Certainly looks that way, nothing from outside investors,nothing by way of restructuring the company. The finance deal with Boeing will put them on a better footing for a takeover and Greybulls money will keep them going until a buyer is found.

[Crosswind Limits]

First things first, Skipness you are a bit of a wally for repeatedly peddling doom, gloom and pessimism about Monarch, even when there's something really positive! Either you are a worried competitor or you just need to get a life!

Secondly, there'll be no sale to jet2 because they couldn't afford us. Closing is what our competitors want us to do - not happening!

Get over it!

[Brigantee]

Great news ,HH and one or two others must be devastated ......

[Skipness One Echo]

First things first, Skipness you are a bit of a wally for repeatedly peddling doom, gloom and pessimism about Monarch, even when there's something really positive! Either you are a worried competitor or you just need to get a life!
The business has struggled greatly in recent years and like BA, has been trading on a past reputation that's disconnected from the reality that to compete with FR/EZY/LS/DY you need their cost base and structures.
To survive MON will need to be as close to that space as possible except they are either larger in the case of three and more focused on packages like LS. Monarch have been squeezed badly, this has gotten worse, and their main shareholder has allowed a situation to develop where consumer confidence has collapsed going into the quiet trading period, i.e. poor trading just got much worse. Not only that, all talk of new investors has been shown to be a myth.

If a business needs something like a sugar daddy Swiss billionaire to survive it won't last long if daddy cuts off the credit cards. I have no idea why Greybull allowed this to happenas they've increased the chances of MON closing by not putting the money in earlier.

It's barely a lifeline to see them through to the summer by which time people will still have this crisis in mind when booking. Far from out of the woods, they need a proper investor or a sale.

[FANS]

Good news for the staff, customers & suppliers.

Can't understand why Greybull didn't do this 3 weeks ago!

[Enzo999]

First things first, Skipness you are a bit of a wally for repeatedly peddling doom, gloom and pessimism about Monarch, even when there's something really positive! Either you are a worried competitor or you just need to get a life!

Secondly, there'll be no sale to jet2 because they couldn't afford us. Closing is what our competitors want us to do - not happening!

Get over it!

I think they could easily afford you if they wanted!

[paully]

You`re right, there won`t be any sale to Jet2..They are smart business cookies. Bmi Baby was a much better fit for them,but they just watched it get wound up and picked out the bits they wanted and got it all for free...

[8029848s]

Mmmmm.....I still have concerns that Monarch will not make it.

The extra funding will only delay the inevitable IMHO and I would imagine Easyjet would be the company most likely to pick up the pieces.

The CEO did not sound very convincing on Radio 4 just a few hours ago.

We are just entering a downturn in the industry and the likes of Monarch, Air Berlin, Norwegian and a fair few others are going to struggle and will most likely not make it out of the other side I am afraid to say.

[FANS]

We all know that Greybull are not long term investors, and therefore the airline is effectively up for sale.

This latest round of emergency funding has been beyond belief, and I can't see many customers wanting to lend Monarch money until they fly. Even with ATOL.

[KyleRB]

This is really good news for all my friends and colleagues at MON.

For the record the previous Swiss Italian owners were far from a sugar daddy. They never ran the company properly because that was never their plan and in the end shafted the employees. To suggest they were anything other than this is disingenuous and shows ignorance of what really happened.

I also believe Jet2 couldn't afford Monarch. They have an inferior product to MON by all accounts.

However, the question remains how long can Monarch remain independent. I think ultimately a sale or merger is likely!

[paully]

`They have an inferior product to MON by all accounts`....You sure about that, as you don`t seem to have tried the Jet2 product. I`ve tried both, but much prefer Jet2. But not just me it seems, in July they were voted into the top 10 of world airlines by Trip Advisor, based on the views of people who had travelled with them..:ok:

So yes they could afford Monarch but from a business perspective, why would they??....They have no need of them

[ATNotts]

We all know that Greybull are not long term investors, and therefore the airline is effectively up for sale.

This latest round of emergency funding has been beyond belief, and I can't see many customers wanting to lend Monarch money until they fly. Even with ATOL.

Do you never give up! I feel sure that for some unknown reason you'd be pleased to see Monarch fail!

You're right however that Greybull are venture capitalists. Their modus operandii is to buy poorly businesses, return them to health, and then sell them on at a profit ( i.e. recovering their investment plus a bit). Sometimes, such as in the case of "M" shops, they made a misjudgment, but they wouldn't still be in business if they didn't, more often than not, make the right decisions.

However, the question remains how long can Monarch remain independent. I think ultimately a sale or merger is likely!

For the reasons stated above I think that is a foregone conclusion. Question is whether that is in 2 years (unlikely) 5 years or 10 years.

[KyleRB]

Paully

I have flown on both when positioning for duty and have friends and colleagues who have worked and still work for both airlines.

Of course you prefer Jet2, just remind me where you are from??:p

[paully]

And just remind me who you work for????????

[KyleRB]

I don't work for Monarch. Currently doing seasonal work for a small outfit.

Does that answer your Q? ;)

[FANS]

Rest assured ATNotts, Greybull will do what's right....for them

[gilesdavies]

So a few months ago Greybull were trying to offload the airline to a seller (which seems no one wanted) and now they are investing £165 million into the business...(!?)

This in my opinion, is a load a spin, some imaginative accounting and were not being told half the story!

As a BBC analyst suggested this morning on the radio, this £165 million, might not even be an investment and could just purely be a cash injection (another). If the case, this could also add to the airlines debt and which has to be repaid and will mean the airline will struggle further to make a profit.

If Boeing have relaxed the repayment terms on the new aircraft, this also releases a large amount of money to show in their bank account, what in theory is already allocated to the purchase of the 737's.

I'm still not convinced the airline is out the woods, and the proof in the pudding will be if/when the 737's actually start to arrive, and the airline can pay for them.

Bring on the people calling me a troll, and a Monarch hater!

[FANS]

Giles, I hear what you're saying although the CAA must be sufficiently satisfied.

Greybull putting £160 million is possibly just a headline, i.e. has that money moved today?

It being a private company, we won't find out until later, but I wouldn't lend them money until it came to flying time.

[mcdhu]

This has to be good news for MON and all who work for 'her'. I wish them well of course.
However, £165M is not a huge sum given the rise in fuel price (hedging - dunno) and, possibly of more relevance given that most of the revenue is surely paid in £, the fall in the £ v the USD (fuel, lease costs, spares etc) and the € (charges in Europe). Winter losses are coming to us all and I also fear for forward bookings.
My fingers are firmly crossed for this 'proper' airline.

[spottilludrop]

I suspect ATNotts there was more than one on here relishing the thought of the airline going under and the consequent hardship for many people .

Great to see their hopes confounded , Good luck to monarch.

[KyleRB]

I am certain this £165 million in addition to the deal with Boeing will create more than enough "cash reserves" to ride out the winter and next season and beyond until a sale is agreed (if it hasn't been agreed already!).

[Skipness One Echo]

Their modus operandii is to buy poorly businesses, return them to health, and then sell them on at a profit (
There is no compelling reason for anyone to buy Monarch. Right there, is why Greybull are in two minds.

[Crosswind Limits]

Skipness

Don't conflate your opinion with fact! Everyone can have an opinion but an informed opinion based on knowledge is what really counts!

[HeartyMeatballs]

How is Monarch a superior product to anything else that's offered in the UK leisure market?

In fact come 11/01/17 you'll not know the fitter ends between BA/Ryanair/Jet2/easyJet/Monarch. The only difference being the paint jobs and the uniform.

I don't think any airline is at all remarkable in the UK leisure market.

[Skipness One Echo]

Skipness

Don't conflate your opinion with fact! Everyone can have an opinion but an informed opinion based on knowledge is what really counts!
OK fair point.
What reason is there to buy MON balanced against watching it fail and picking up the pieces? The latter is a heart breaker but that's BMI Baby all over again. The brand is aligned with the others having gone "downmarket", there is no USP and the loyalty base isn't that loyal nowadays,

[FANS]

I was expecting today's announcement to include the Chinese or even Boeing standing behind/alongside Monarch.

Airlines are like a bank, as the customer is lending (depositing) money to the airline in return for a flight in the future.

We know what happens to banks when confidence has gone.

[Heathrow Harry]

"Great news ,HH and one or two others must be devastated ......"

Not so - read my posts for heavens sake.

My take is that this gives them a bit longer than the 6 months other's are guessing at - their previous burn rate on cash would suggest they should be OK for at least a year - maybe longer especially if they make some changes - especially on the lease/purchase front

And a year in the current BREXIT world is a lifetime TBH

[Buster the Bear]

Nothing like the suspense of the news that Greybull who own Monarch are investing £165m of their own money in a company that they own?

[bvcu]

Not much information on whats happening to jobs ? Manchester hanger and was it 300 jobs recently gone i believe............

[spottilludrop]

Monarch: what was all that about? | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/monarch-inside-story-cliffhanger-airline-investment-a7358441.html)

[Rushed Approach]

Airlines are like a bank, as the customer is lending (depositing) money to the airline in return for a flight in the future.

If you believe this you don't know much about the way credit card companies operate.

My take is that this gives them a bit longer than the 6 months other's are guessing at - their previous burn rate on cash would suggest they should be OK for at least a year - maybe longer especially if they make some changes - especially on the lease/purchase front


This sort of comment makes no sense at all. You and others have absolutely no idea of "previous burn rate" as you only have (carefully crafted) press reports of what has been put in and absolutely no idea of what has been taken out - this company has been profitable (which nobody seems to be disputing) for the past two years and was profitable for 95% of its previous existence before late 2014 and since the late sixties under its previous owners. Previous cash injections (reported) and lots of dividends and loans repaid (not reported) makes for a pretty distorted picture to the outside world.

Everyone seems to think Greybull are shrewd, ruthless investors, so what are they doing investing (again) in a basket case then? Could it be that they have already seen a return on their initial investments in years 1 and 2?

The reality is that the cost base is the same or better than other locos since 2014 even without the benefits of the re-fleeting deal with Boeing, which will not bear fruit fully for a number of years. Yes, "Brexit" presents challenges with the weaker pound, but this applies to other UK carriers too who compete on similar routes with similar $ and Euro costs.

And as for "slashing fares" (Independent article cited above), I very much doubt that the various fares algorithms will change as it seems bookings are holding up well and better than this time last year and will always be mainly influenced by those of competitors and other market conditions.

[Brigantee]

I would agree with the parting shot Spottiludrop , There is certainly a lot of good will in the travel game towards them ...Best of luck guys

PS By all a accounts bookings are doing really well which is great news for them

[TBSC]

Something's fishy here IMHO. Why on earth did they wait until the very last minute damaging their own brand? I think there was a takeover offer (Chinese or other) which was withdrawn eventually hence the "investment" of Greybull to keep the show going on.

[Waldo1]

Seems monarch are more interested in the whole buying loads of new planes instead of sticking with what they have and concentrating in sorting out the business....

[crewmeal]

Me thinks that many spotters on here will be disappointed that they won't be seeing United 747's into other UK airports anytime soon.

Well done MON and good luck for the future!

[FANS]

Half understand the protections of CC, paypall, and indeed ATOL, but if you've got the choice to book with an EZY vs Monarch, why would you bother with Monarch unless it's a lot cheaper?

Greybull know Monarch inside out, so the only reason I can think of that they didn't do this 3 weeks ago was because they were far from convinced.

[HeartyMeatballs]

The only reason why things will be selling well will be due to deep discounting.

Monarch still have to survive the winter. Their costs have increased due to them all in the £ and it's been said that last year the profit made was only due to the fall in the price of fuel. Now if the price of oil actually goes up it could be a double whammy and it could still end in tears.

If anything it gives the good hard working people there a bit of time to look elsewhere for a job. TCX and EZY are recruiting as are BA and VS just closed. If I was there I wouldn't be seeing this as a my future being secured.

[FANS]

agree - it's been a shambolic 3 weeks for them, factual information that can be relied upon is non-existent, and they'll be getting sold down the line anyway.

If you're a decent employee, you'd surely take destiny into your own hands, rather than be dictated to this by crowd.

[HeartyMeatballs]

I most certainly would. And for anyone there who thinks they'll be bought up and simply absorbed into someone else then I'd be extremely surprised if it happened. It would be a lot cheaper for a competitor to let it implode and pick up the pieces (including people on 'refreshed' Ts and Cs). The Boeing noose, the overcapacity in the market, Brexit, terrorism, potential recession, tension with Russia. Now really isn't the time for any airline to increase its fleet size by 50 overnight. Now really isn't the time for refleeting neither.

[FANS]

Their own website talks of winter fare prices being 20% lower than last year, and discounts off November holidays etc.

So it seems they are going down route of being cheaper, which I suspect is their only option.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Lower prices will stimulate demand. However lower prices, higher costs.......

And as far as Joe Public knows, last week monarch 'nearly went bust', now they're highlighting the fact that they're selling flights on the cheap. It could look like desperation to some.

[qwertyuiop]

Seems monarch are more interested in the whole buying loads of new planes instead of sticking with what they have and concentrating in sorting out the business....
Monarch have a variety of 320/321 aircraft. Some old, some new and quite varied in their spec and fit. Anybody thinking they are all the same is mistaken.
Replacing the fleet with 737 Max will reduce the company's operating costs by 24%. It's not hard to see why they want to go down that route.
Some believe re-fleeting with Airbus products would be simpler, I believe they made the correct choice.

[KelvinD]

Replacing the fleet with 737 Max will reduce the company's operating costs by 24%
Now that's interesting. If correct, how is Airbus selling any A320 series aircraft all? Surely this says that all airlines can slash their operating costs by significant amounts simply by swapping their fleets for 737?

[qwertyuiop]

Now that's interesting. If correct, how is Airbus selling any A320 series aircraft all? Surely this says that all airlines can slash their operating costs by significant amounts simply by swapping their fleets for 737?
The saving calculations are based on the existing fleet, not a fleet of new Airbus products.

[gilesdavies]

Replacing the fleet with 737 Max will reduce the company's operating costs by 24%. It's not hard to see why they want to go down that route.

The saving calculations are based on the existing fleet, not a fleet of new Airbus products.

While the 24% saving is highly likely, flying a like for like route, in comparison to a 10 year old A320 for example, in maintenance and fuel costs.

But again I think this is highly imaginative accounting on Monarch's part, in the press releases where this figure is mentioned...

Monarch are only going to be receiving 6-8 aircraft a year, so will take nearly 4 years for the transition to take place from Airbus to Boeing. In this time they will be running a dual fleet, they have to pay for crew and ground staff to be converted, and equipment at bases to be changed too.

I highly doubt this 24% saving will be achievable until the Airbus fleet has been fully disposed of.

While these new aircraft will extremely fuel efficient, this comes at the cost of very high prices to purchase the aircraft and/or lease. This is where low cost carriers like Allegiant and Jet2 have decided to operate older/cheaper aircraft and the cheaper running costs out weigh the fuel savings of newer aircraft. Hence why Jet2 have ordered the previous generation 737-800's and not the max version.

While the A320/1 family Monarch operate, varied with different ages and slightly different spes, this is common for many airlines, where additional aircraft of the same type is acquired over the years.... As long as they have the same engine type and basic specifications they are more or less flying a uniform fleet.

An order for new aircraft, for a struggling airline is the last thing they need and should be trying to make do with what they have for the next few years, until they are out of the woods. But I suspect this order is too far advance and the noose around the airlines neck, hence the struggle to find a new investor or buyer.

[Brigantee]

Good news all round , I think behind all the new money being injected there maybe is a new investor waiting in the wings

HNA group seemed very interested three months ago maybe they still are ?


http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/62040/hainan-airlines-parent-confirms-interest-in-monarch-stake

[retrosgone]

While I am relieved and pleased that Monarch appear to have lived to fly another day (and hopefully much longer), it wont have escaped anybody's attention that they required a bailout when Greybull took them over, and now they have required another, even larger, cash injection. This is despite pulling in their horns and drastically cutting terms and conditions etc.

No saviour appears to be waiting offstage, so unless we have been missing something all along, how do they propose to escape from their cash-flow doldrums and generate real (as opposed to operating) profits? What has really changed, apart from an ever tougher market with Brexit, problematic exchange rates, rising oil prices and very low demand for Turkey and North Africa. A Cunning Plan is required. Answers on a postcard - - -

[INKJET]

Retrosgone

Very well put, I don't think anything has changed and certainly not for the better, with the exchange close to parity, certainly at travel shop exchange rates, anyone heavily dependant on UK business like Monarch,Jet2 and also easyJet are going to find it a tough market in 2017, whilst Jet2 will likely see an improvement to their all inclusive Jet2holidays, Monarch have repositioned themselves as a point to point low ( but not low enough) cost airline, this winter will be brutal for them, Ryanair & Norwegian have a much larger exposure to the European city market and that will grow because it's never been cheaper to visit and spend in the UK but Monarch don't have the brand awareness outside of the UK.

It reads very much like a sell and lease back deal on these 737's in much the way that Sir Michael Bishop did with the bmi group where aircraft were owned by an inhouse ( in Bishopshouse) leasing company and leased to the airline at high lease rates, transferring profit from the airline to the finance house, all well and good and many companies do similar things, but it doesn't help the cost base in a cut throat market up against the big boys

Anyway at least they get to live another year

[FANS]

Given the farce of the last 3 weeks, unless they're dirt cheap, why have anything to do with Monarch?

Did the caa or monarch ever formally confirm or deny that those ghost flights related to Monarch?

[ATNotts]

Given the farce of the last 3 weeks, unless they're dirt cheap, why have anything to do with Monarch?

Did the caa or monarch ever formally confirm or deny that those ghost flights related to Monarch?
Well, I can think of a few reasons why I would.

First, pricing is going to be keen, to recover lost ground as a result of this PR debacle. Second, they have a good reputation; you're less likely to have your flight timings radically changed than with some larger operators. Finally, unlike most airlines, you're covered with an ATOL - so if the worst were to happen you'd get repatriated.

From the general tenor of your posts on both threads on PPRuNe it appears to me you'll stop at nothing to try and help this airline and the 2800-odd jobs that it supports directly out of business.

I just ask myself why.

[FANS]

1. I've already mentioned price, ****wit
2. good reputation - are you a comedian as well as a ****wit?
3. ATOL - if I book flights with Monarch and they go bust before I leave, do they also refund my separately booked hotels?

[compton3bravo]

Give it a rest FANS if you cannot have a civil discussion please do us all a favour and have a moan somewhere else. We all know you wanted Monarch to go under but it hasn't so get over it please.

[FANS]

**** you compton

[Crosswind Limits]

FANS, please why the profanity?

I work for Monarch as a mere line pilot. It's been a difficult 2-3 weeks and I now wait with baited breath to see what direction the company moves in.

[Twiglet1]

FANS
You've bad mouthed Monarch more than anyone across all the threads
Whats your beef then. :ugh:

[REUSES]

My first post - I've seen FANS obsession with Monarch on these threads and up until now there seemed to be no need to actually start abusing people. Monarch have now been cleared to operate by the CAA for another 12 months and now the abuse has started. It smacks of a bitter ex-employee to me (Possibly sacked or made redundant). I could be wrong but I can see no other reason why someone would have so much hatred for a company. Definitely not a disgruntled passenger as they would just say as much, and for some reason I don't think he/she works for a rival airline. Monarch have really upset this person and they are clearly gutted that they have survived. Obviously none of know for sure what the future is for Monarch but I could say the same for the majority of companies out there, but for now they are in business and while they are in business they always have a chance of making a success of it. I hope they make it - flown with them many times and have been generally very happy with them.

[777boyindubai]

Glad to see things are better at Monarch. They offer a great product and I have enjoyed using and will continue to use them. Amazed at seeing people happy to see the misfortune of others. In this light, I have just booked three tickets to show my support. Well done to Monarch and good luck to all our colleagues for the future.

[Brigantee]

I fear the recent positive news regarding Monarch may have tipped poor FANS over the edge if his last rather unhinged post is anything to go by , Further bads news for him is by all accounts bookings are holding up well

[Brigantee]

FANS , You are a vindictive nasty piece of work , Do one....

[lagerlout]

Greybull went from not wanting to put in 35m a few months ago, before BREXIT, currency turmoil and fuel heading northwards to stumping up 165m. Yeah, okay pull the other one. My guess is there is an awful lot of smoke and mirrors here. Its great that Monarch have been saved but there is still a heck of a way to travel before they are out of the woods!

[chaps1954]

He is at it on the other Monarch forum so seems to have upset quite a few people

[Brigantee]

Obviously a rather disturbed individual who no doubt has "issues"

[Centre cities]

Perhaps the MOD'swill consider an enforced break.

[gunka]

CONSUMER GOODS AND RETAIL | Wed Sep 28, 2016 | 5:05am EDT
BRIEF-Hainan HNA Infrastructure Investment plans to invest 1.35 bln yuan to set up JV
Hainan Hna Infrastructure Investment Group Co Ltd

* Says it plans to invest 1.35 billion yuan ($202.35 million)to set up investment joint venture

[pabloc]

FANS,HeathrowHarry and HeartyMeatballs....Bitter and Twisted...

[pabloc]

FANS did someone at Monarch run off with a loved one?...Jog on now...

[PilotsOfTheCaribbean]

FANS,

Despite the "Trumpesque " degeneration of the tone of your argument, and the fact that you are undoubtably seeking "death by mod," you are of course entitled to your opinion, where those opinions don't require the vehicle of profanity or insult to lend them gravitas.

The suggestion that Monarch is in some way a bad employer couldn't be any further from the truth. Even when this particular trauma surfaced a fortnight ago, every employee had been paid just two days prior. I am in my fourth decade as an employee, and there is a very long list of people who have been employees far longer than I have. In 48 years they have never run payroll one single day late. Not one! Whatever criticism you might level at the business, being a "bad employer" is simply ludicrous!

As a pilot, There has never been one single occaission when I felt I didn't have the support of the companies management. And the one single thing (besides paying on time) that I admire them for, is their support and practicality. There has always been a mutual respect in that Captains are employed as responsible people doing a responsible job. To that end, sound decisions are always supported, even when with the benefit of hindsight, they weren't necessarily the best ones. I am sure there have been no end of times when we haven't annoyed the hell out of each other, but there has always been a mutual respect, acceptance, tolerance, support and friendship.

This is a company that has decades of offering apprenticeship training in engineering, sales, management, as well as pilots. Literally thousands of young people have been brought from school and offered not simply "jobs" but whole of life careers.

If I had to leave tomorrow it would be with a very heavy heart. Given the chance to do it all again, I would do it in a heartbeat. Whilst I can only speak for myself, I am certain that the vast majority of the people I work with feel exactly the same way. Even through the stressfull restructure of the company in 2014 and the further uncertainties of the last fortnight, work has still been a great place to be.

So by all means voice your opinion and criticise as you see fit. However your contention that this company is a bad employer or doesn't care about its employees simply belies even the most basic tenet of truth and in turn weakens your other opinions in its wake.

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone know what's happening with the Gatwick - Kittila / Lapland route ?
Flights seem to be available on some dates (e.g. half term in Feburary) for the sector from London to Finland, but the sector from Finland to London doesn't have availability on any dates at all

Are we perhaps about to see the route being cancelled ?

[megan]

From Welcome to the MRO Network | MRO Network (http://mro-network.com)Monarch Secures £165m Investment
Posted on 13/10/2016 - 11:10

Doubts over the immediate future of Monarch Airlines have subsided after the British carrier confirmed a £165m ($201m) cash injection from majority shareholder Greybull Capital yesterday (October 12).

In a statement, Luton-headquartered Monarch said the investment from Greybull, which first bought its stake in Monarch in 2014 to the tune of £125m ($152m), resulted in the successful renewal of its ATOL licences from the CAA for the next 12 months while also funding future growth plans which include the addition of new aircraft.

Fleet expansion plans include an October 2014 order for 30 737MAX aircraft with 15 options.

The first of the Boeing narrowbodies is expected for delivery in 2018. Andrew Swaffield, CEO of the Monarch Group, said the airline is now “firmly focused” on the future as a stronger operation.

[Cloud1]

I understood that flights were genuinely full.....a friend of mine is on standby for one of the flights and there are no spare seats on some of the dates.

[IcePack]

POC you seem to have conviently forgotten those s***td by the PREVIOUS owners, in respect of the DB pension scheme. Just pointing out in that respect not a lot of care was taken of the loyal long term employees.

[Wander00]

Flew to Cyprus with Monarch last year. Was most impressed by their attitude and helpfulness - take off delayed by an hour as a couple of glass cockpit items needed replacing so captain invited kids of all ages to have a look at the cockpit while we waited. I had never seen a glass cockpit so joined the queue - a youngish mother even offered to be my "mum" - turned out captain was former Victor pilot so we had an interesting chat until the engineers turned up. I wish them well.

[Malchester]

Perhaps FANS needs a holiday. Maybe one with Monarch Holidays flying on Monarch Airlines would be good. Maybe then he can see how good Monarch really are. They beat TCX hands down every time and are a bit better than Thomson. Never flown with Ryanair, EasyJet or Norwegian so can't compare

[canberra97]

Considering FANS is new to PPRUNE he hasn't made a very good impression to anyone on here with his ridiculous initial posts!

Let's hope we've seen the last of him.

[pabely]

You can search on FANS back to 2001 but his Posts show 0 posts and "I'm new here" so I assume they have been throttled back by Mods

[Brigantee]

Pity the mods didnt simply throttle him ..Hopefully after making such a arse of himself he may lay dormant for some time

[INKJET]

ATW news reporting that Monarch have agreed a sale and lease back of the 30 738max due for delivery starting in 2018 the third party has not been identified.

[canberra97]

INKJET

I think your find that it's public knowledge that the third party is Boeing them selfs as its been widely reported on here, on other sites as well as in the media.

[lederhosen]

The elephant in the room is why the authorities appear to have taken such a tough stance, if Monarch are doing so well? I strongly favour the cock up over conspiracy view of life, but you do wonder.

Incurring considerable expense (if the rumours are true and I certainly saw the 747 in Palma) in chartering capacity seems to have been unnecessary. Was it crossed wires from some faceless bureaucrat. Or was this the authorities indicating a lack of trust in Monarch's backers based on prior experience.

Greybull say they were a minor player in Comet (electrical retail insolvency). But they clearly have track record of investing in distressed companies (Tata Scunthorpe etc) not all of which go on to greater things. Whether they are plucky investors with the long term interests of all stakeholders we will see in due course. Meanwhile good luck to everyone at Monarch!

[SWBKCB]

Like Lederhosen, I generally prefer cock up over conspiracy, but there is a funny smell here.

Certainly positioning aircraft for a repatriation exercise ahead of any failure is a first as far as I am aware. The filing of flight plans shadowing the Monarch schedule and, if true, handling requests quoting "CAA charter" seem naïve at best, and deliberately de-stabilising at worst.

[davidjohnson6]

Remote possibility, but could the filing of flight plans perhaps have been an unofficial negotiating tactic by the CAA ? Officially nobody at the CAA said a word against Monarch / Greybull but perhaps someone intended to leave a trail of clues knowing it would get picked up and make it to twitter ? If Greybull were playing tough in negotiations last month, perhaps a need existed at the time for the regulator to let Greybull become acutely aware of the CAA's capabilities ?

[TartinTon]

Not sure why the CAA would want to burn a minimum of £2m in cash as a "negotiating tactic" :rolleyes:

[01475]

It's fair to say that the CAA really thought they were going down.

I'm glad they didn't, and I hope that they can repair their reputation. Doing this once was bad, twice, ...

[SWBKCB]

unofficial negotiating tactic

What exactly would the CAA be negotiating? Monarch either meet the requirements or they don't. There might be a bit of to-ing and fro-ing about timings but the CAA have the ultimate sanction.

[azz767]

Flew with MON to FUE on the 11th, the day before the extension expired, and returned last night, and I have to say, whilst there were reports the deal was done by the 11th, it still went down to the wire, and considering that crew on the outbound flew knowing it could well be their last for MON they were a credit to the company and were smiling throughout. The A320 had seen better days though (G-OZBW), and the leg room was poor, so I got the exit row on the way back which was much better.

[Buster the Bear]

Monarch announced last Wednesday that it had secured the biggest investment in its 48-year history after securing a £165 million investment from its majority shareholder, Greybull Capital.

Chief executive Andrew Swaffield insisted Monarch would not “take it to the wire” when its Atol is due for renewal next year.

He said the group would continue with its “asset light” business model, and would consider adding more UK bases in the future.

“The financing is built around a six-year business model – it is not a short-term thing,” he said.

It is designed to secure our future. We are predicting a relatively difficult market for next year with low yields, low pound to the dollar and euro and reasonably similar levels of terrorism to now.”

Speaking to TTG, he added: “Building our own hotels is not on our horizon and I think it would be much more likely that we would stick with the asset light model.

“We don’t really see ourselves as competing with other tour operators - we’re really looking to distribute our seats through our own tour operator, and we’re more than happy to do that with the trade.

“Selling through other companies’ holidays as well allows us to have a certain percentage of seats that we can almost guarantee as sold. It makes your business model more secure.”

Swaffield did not rule out adding to Monarch’s existing five UK bases of Luton, Gatwick, Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds Bradford, but said it was not an immediate priority.

He quashed suggestions that Monarch’s new investment could make it more attractive to buyers, insisting there was “no reason” for the business to be sold in the near future.

“There is a certain logic to it because airlines in Europe need to consolidate and there’s a general desire for that,” he said. “But mine and Greybull’s focus has been around ensuring that we have got the right capital structure, and are profitable and sustainable.

“It’s flattering that people are interested in us but there’s no reason for us to be sold. That’s not to say that it won’t happen one day,” he added, “but it’s a side issue.

“Greybull is very happy with us and we’re happy with them. That’s not to say that it won’t happen one day, but it’s a side issue. We’re focused on moving forward with confidence.”

Swaffield said that while there were no plans for Monarch to float at the moment, it may be considered in the future.

[mudcity]

What has happened to the HNA investment ?

[KyleRB]

HNA?

There's more to come I am fairly certain. Speaking to my mates in Monarch the announcement appears only part of the story. Expect something else over the coming weeks.

[SWBKCB]

Makes you wonder what all the fuss was about... :eek:

[Brigantee]

Kyle , Your "mates" in monach do not know anything more than is in the public domain, I also know people in monarch and they know no more than we do about what the future holds.

[davidjohnson6]

Would have thought both Monarch and Greybull would like the next few months to be stable (boring would be even better) with very little significant news or announcements

[KyleRB]

Brigantee

With due respect, it depends who you know! Most people in Monarch know little more than what's public but if you ask around and prod and poke you get some interesting bits of information. Right now it is purely speculation but interesting nonetheless for senior management pilots to get very excited! ;)

Anyway the ATOL and short/medium term funding is now resolved so fingers crossed they continue to do well.

[111KAB]

Looks like 'longer' term funding resolved > https://skift.com/2016/10/20/monarchs-flights-will-soon-loose-protections-from-uk-licensing-scheme/

[IcePack]

Oh dear, that is another advantage down the Kazi.

[111KAB]

Oh dear, that is another advantage down the Kazi.


Not really .... if you book with credit card (£100 +) you are protected or if you use PayPal you have 180 days protection or for little extra cost you can add SAFI to your insurance. Monarch should pass on the £2.50 ATOL saving - it is doubtful they will however market forces may dictate they have to. Also if you book this year you will still be protected for future flights even if taken after the ATOL certificate for flights is no longer in operation.


The disappointment regarding this is that Monarch did not use it to their advantage (release saying they were now solvent so no need for CAA/ATOL) ... instead the headlines saying Monarch flights no longer protected by ATOL.

[davidjohnson6]

The compulsory ATOL was a huge disadvantage for Monarch. Essentially Monarch had to provide compulsory Scheduled Airline Failure Insurance (SAFI) - but most customers when making a purchase decision did not factor this in when deciding whether to buy a ticket from Monarch or another airline. Result being they had a higher cost base adding a service which most flight-only pax would not have been willing to pay for in the first place.

[IcePack]

David I don't think the average pax knew about the ATOL flt only flight cover as Monarch never seemed to advertise it. I think Monarch could have made more capital out of it.

[Chidken Sangwich]

Well at least this will get them out of next years ATOL renewal issues...

Ryanair looking to snap up surplus B737-800 capacity - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/50256-ryanair-looking-to-snap-up-surplus-b737-800-capacity)

[clamchowder]

I agree completely, pabloc. Just look at the other posts on pprune from them. Says it all.

We already established Monarch's bookings are up on a time when the image was that of financial stability? (or more so than it currently is). I understand Monarch priced too high this summer and as that was realised prices were being reduced, coincidentally as this kicked off.

It could look like desperation to some

Almost anything "could" look like something to "some" people.
Perhaps maybe, I use the words advisedly, the amount of things that could perhaps possibly look a certain way to some people is infinite?
Please can we stop the empty words, it wastes cyber space.

Monarch has value... About as many slots as TCX and VS combined at LGW has value.

From what has been said about Monarch, I think JoePublic, who know nothing specific, have a more accurate picture of the company than the previously named bitter few.

[flybar]

Monarch back in the news again:-


Monarch airline warns profits will fall 35% this year - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38339040)

[ATNotts]

Monarch back in the news again:-


Monarch airline warns profits will fall 35% this year - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38339040)
But they also expect to make £48m! Given the Brexit vote and the resulting fall in sterling, and the CAA's botched attempt to put them out of business altogether not a bad result overall. Encouraging that they also report a 40% increase in forward package bookings for 2017.

Glass half full, or glass half empty. Take your pick.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Right. So bookings up 40% for next year, #DespiteBrexit.

[The96er]

CAA's botched attempt to put them out of business

It was Monarch who nearly put Monarch out of business - not the regulator !

[planedrive]

Are you actually trying to suggest that the situation was caused by a competing airline rather than by Monarch's owners last minute dealings with the CAA??:rolleyes:

[ATNotts]

Right. So bookings up 40% for next year, #DespiteBrexit.
Indeed, somewhat surprising, but welcome news for Monarch, and if replicated across the sector, good news for the industry as a whole.

[H44]

Holiday bookings are up 40%, flight only bookings are only up 10% - anyone know what percentage of monarchs business is flight only these days? I would have thought that having transitioned to be a scheduled low cost airline that flight only would make up the majority of their business?

[Brigantee]

As Monarch decided during their restructure that holidays along with longhaul was not part of the brave new world they ditched them , However i suspect on taking a look at jet2 they then decided recently to conduct a U turn and actually selling holidays may be a good idea after all
So i suspect last years holiday sales were very smalll therefore a Forty percent rise in sales might not actually be that big a deal

Who knows they may decide looking at the increase long haul sales the decision to abandon that market was not the smartest move in the world.

[ratchetring]

Well they have just stated they are looking to return to long haul flying with seven or eight aircraft ....

A bit late to the party perhaps .....


Seems they dont really know what they want to be ...

[Brigantee]

Floundering i think best describes the situation at spotty M

[VickersVicount]

is it 35% increase in bookings in relation to a significant drop in bookings last year? so overall neutral!
I feel some old Dc-10s and 767s coming on for longhaul... remember them?
Is the A330 that sat outside the hanger gone?

[canberra97]

Ratchetring

Where did you read about Monarch looking to return to long haul, any links?

[Cloud1]

Well they have just stated they are looking to return to long haul flying with seven or eight aircraft ....

A bit late to the party perhaps .....


Seems they dont really know what they want to be ...

I rarely get the impression Monarch are particularly innovative - aren't they always following on behind other carriers in decision making?

[pabely]

However i suspect on taking a look at jet2 they then decided recently to conduct a U turn and actually selling holidays may be a good idea after all

Cosmos & Monarch used to be good setup!

[ratchetring]

Canberra97 , A friend works for them he received a update from the CEO Andrew Swaffield yesterday stating the fact .

Where exactly the funds for eight long haul aircraft are coming from god knows given the companies situation

Seems to me there making it as they go along , Likely its a reaction to jet 2 aquiring a 330 as it seems what jet 2 do today Monarch does tommorow plus they must be eying the number of people flying long haul with the likes of Thomas cook ,Thompson ,Etc

Maybe the pennies finally dropped that the market their in is totally saturated and there stuck in a ever diminishing pool with some bloody big predators swimming around....

[GayFriendly]

Well, I for one would be very happy if they did as there is a market there for the taking at BHX in terms of leisure long haul. TOM have a good range of destinations (and launch Goa and Phuket in Nov) but it would be nice to see someone step in and offer a wider choice of US, Caribbean and Indian Ocean flights. TCX have shown this can work at MAN: on a smaller scale I think this type of operation could work for Monarch at BHX.

[22/04]

Monarch was always going to be in a difficult position once the low cost airlines became established. As pabley said Cosmos and later Avro were a good model, and Monarch also did a lot for flying for Airtours (who didn't have an airline in house early on). When they set up their own airline and merged with Thomas Cook, Monarch lost some of that work and unlike Thomson who also dabbled with low cost scheduled the Cosmos and Avro work was not big enough to simply retrench back into Inclusive Tour flying with seat sales just a bonus. It has been easier for the locos to move into their own holiday sector - all have now done this - most recently Ryanair as they have a lower cost structure. So I don't think I could of any better- either they need the investment to take on say Jet2 and win in BHX MAN and via LTN and LGW at STN, or in my view they need to merge. We'll see and of course we wish them luck. Incidentally the 737 "Max" could take on some flying we think of as long haul.

[Brigantee]

Bottom line is monarch have not got a pot to piss in to put it bluntly , Any notion of seven or eight long haul aircraft is ludicrous.

[canberra97]

Brigantee

I Absolutely agree with you and that's why I asked ratchetring who posted it for a link to this ludicrous suggestion which to be honest I find hard to believe.

[Cazza_fly]

Bottom line is monarch have not got a pot to piss in to put it bluntly , Any notion of seven or eight long haul aircraft is ludicrous.

As much as i wish it wasn't the case, it is the absolute truth.

Monarch really need to be focusing on what they have right now.

Long haul ops are not the be all and end all... So, if there is any truth in this rumour, those involved should have a serious re-think !

[paully]

This may be someone thinking aloud for when the MAX starts to arrive. Financially the last deal, so called, merely bought them some time. Finance wise it was little more than to get them into some sort of shape to sell off.

To think that a company in a serious financial position, as they are, could or would consider balance sheet draining long haul, they must be bonkers..

[Brigantee]

Im sure given the funding Monarch could make a success of long haul as they have a lot of experiance in the field , However where is the cash for long haul aircraft going to come from ?
Possible merger?/ Buy in the offing?

[canberra97]

paully

Good post and I totally agree with you especially the first sentence.

[INKJET]

Monarch lacks above all a clear understanding of what it is, its market, its like a dog chasing its own tail, they see Norwegian enter the LGW market and think ah!! we should be a LoCo carrier, ditch long haul and the holiday side of the business, then Jet2 grow their holiday company profitable and Monarch have second thoughts....

They should focus on engineering, i really can't see them in their present form being around in a couple of years which would be a shame

[ratchetring]

Paully , The comunique clearly stated aquiring seven or eight "modern long haul aircraft" as opposed to using the 737 Max on long haul routes

Further they are trying to grow their well regarded engineering business but i beleive are suffering from a problem in both recruiting and retaining quilified engineers

[paully]

Trying to grow the Engineering business..serious?? because only last year they closed their Manchester engineering operation making 120 engineers redundant as well as making a further 13 at Luton and several at Birmingham.

Monarch Airlines engineering job losses in Manchester (http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/monarch-airlines-engineering-job-losses-in-manchester/)

No wonder their recruiting and retaining measures are a bit patchy, would you not agree..

As for long haul ops :rolleyes:

[ratchetring]

Totally agree , However thats what the official line is , As for closing the Manchester hangar that was one serious mistake, The hope was i hear the staff would all relocate to the Birming hanger where they are very short of engineers, However
most took the pay off and many were recruited by Thomas Cook at Manchester
and jet 2 who now own the facility.


I think its known as shooting yourself in the foot.....

[22/04]

Okay - here's a just plausible business decision. Monarch's key remaining market appears to be silvers who feel they get a bit of a better service than they would from EasyJet etc.

There is a client or clients involved in the cruise market or possibly the niche up-market holiday one who might have formerly used monarch and would wish to return if only they were still in the market.

Monarch engineering has a proven record in maintaining geriatric jets.

So let's at least examine the business case for this leasing older available airframes ( A330s would be nice but if push comes to shuv A340-300s or 757s/767s) to serve these guys.

I think it would bear examination. Low risk low start up costs.

[Brigantee]

Fair points however where the hell are they going to get the cash to obtain several 330,s or even 767,s ? Doubtless monarch engineering are well capable of maintaining those types but thats not the problem they have

[HeartyMeatballs]

My word. MAXs and long haul. A new short haul fleet and going back to long haul, with a new type.

What could go wrong?

[canberra97]

But still no link or source from RATCHETRING?

[Mara237]

An internal comm was sent out from the CEO the other day, in which he stated that long-haul plans were "at the discussion stage" with no firm decision made yet. It's a market they would like to return to.

The long-haul chat aside, we have a better plan of action than many realise.

[Flightrider]

Is it not possible that the two are linked, i.e. the 737MAX aircraft would allow a return to long-haul (of sorts) and seven or eight of them are to be used as such? Difficult to tell in the absence of any more to add to the speculation, but I guess it has to be possible. Who knows, this could have been the plan (hence the order for 737MAXs rather than end-of-line 737-800s on which they would have got a far better deal?) all along, and only Norwegian's growth has now prompted them to say something publicly? I've no evidence to back this up, but it doesn't seem to be beyond the bounds of plausibility.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

It was an internal communication and as ratchetring stated the max is not being mentioned.
Also Brigantee since when are B767 and A330 modern aircraft?
paully the Manchester hangar was shut because it was losing the company a lot of money.

[22/04]

Encouraging post Spotty M - more thought and rationality than many on here might think.

Not sure what you mean by the "modern aircraft" comment- Delta are still ordering A330s, Virgin's are under three years old etc etc........

Oh and the long haul client might provide investment if he felt his clients were getting what they wanted.

I need to stress that this is mere conjecture from a supporter of Monarch since he was 13 and watched G-AOVI depart on 5/4/68 who is not connected with the company in any way.

[paully]

Spotty M

I have little doubt the Manchester hanger was losing them money, but every part of that company was losing them money..It was only the degree that varied. The management must have been really bad as the hanger was snapped up, along with a lot of their engineers and seems to be on the right track, now its got a better hand on the tiller..

[The96er]

Monarch's fine engineering team at Manchester deserves a far more generous epitaph than the one you afford them in your posting.

Mr @ Spotty M simply made what seems a sound quote, your response reminds me of all the Monarch fan boys who were in total denial when the company was on the brink.

[inOban]

A move into long(er) haul may be a good idea, but be too late. I'm thinking that with the exponential growth of Jet2, and the imminent arrival of Ryanair holidays, the budget European market is sewn up. You either have to be in the upmarket, all-inclusive business (TUI First Choice), or in long haul, where many of the customers will be the well-heeled retired who possibly feel safer with a package, and be unaware of the cost of the individual parts of that package.

What do others think?

[Buster the Bear]

Maybe they are resurrecting their old B787 order! Or maybe not!

[SWBKCB]

seven or eight "modern long haul aircraft"

So for context - the same size fleet as TCX 330's and just a bit smaller than the TOM 787 fleet - ambitious.

[bill b]

In reality there is a 1% chance of long haul returning to a Monarch , and if it did happen it is at least 3 - 5 years away , so nothing to get excited about . 3 years is a long time...It was mentioned , but I think purely as a staff retention mechanism .

[ratchetring]

Have they considered improving the terms and conditions if staff retention is a issue , Often works wonders

[SWBKCB]

admirable management style... :sad:

[tubby linton]

By the time Monarch get their act together Norwegian will have over thirty dreamliners and an established name in the long haul market.
I think that the company has been taken in by Boeings sales pitch and Boeing had a very poor year in 2016 for aircraft sales.

[22/04]

Those cruising silvers and the likes of Captain's choice won't be the types who want to go with Norwegian

[easyflyer83]

They probably wouldn't have wanted to go with Monarch either had they not reconfigured an aircraft to a very spacious and comfortable configuration.

[ratchetring]

I dont think anyone in Monarch actually believes a word of this nonsense regarding long haul.

[Crosswind Limits]

Well I think ultimately we will have to get back into longhaul through necessity. This time do it properly, one aircraft type, enough of them and none of those ridiculously long layovers from back in the day. Many of my colleagues agree with me but not for a few years though. The 737 introduction will be challenging enough!