Monarch - 3

[1994Heavy]

I hear MON are to lease 3 Air tanker A330,s next year for long haul destinations to plug the gap before the new 787,s arrive

Would love to see that happen, where's have you heard that from and I doubt it's any more concrete than rumours

[mmeteesside]

Sounds to me like Monarch are too reactive and need to find a niche for themselves. They'll struggle to find one that isn't already covered now though... even Iceland has been taken.

[ATNotts]

I wouldn't say that at all. They have seen opportunities to develop non bucket-and-spade destinations from BHX such as Lisbon, Oporto, Stockholm, Valencia and Zagreb and if what we hear is true they are proving pretty successful. Certainly the traditional Spanish destinations are saturated, even the Spanish are railing against the quantity (and probably quality) of tourists they are being flooded with.

If I were Monarch I'd be looking at developing destinations like Burgas and Varna in the B+S field, and look towards routes like Ljubljana, Ohrid, Belgrade, Helsinki, on initially low frequency, aimed at the short break market. Destinations away from Euroland are likely to do particularly well, but also because of the low value of sterling, major UK cities like Birmingham and Leeds, with good shopping opportunities, plus culture and history on their doorsteps ought to thrive from some of the bigger population centres in Europe.

There's a lot more to Europe than the traditional "Costas" and serving the British tourist.

[1994Heavy]

Yes I think in the past Monarch have been sheep, waited for others to do it and followed. But now they are trying to move away from that, the new short breaks they have introduced seem to be going well. They still need to continue the norm bucket and spade routes, they are popular and would be stupid to give their market share of those up. But with a fleet expansion up to 45 SH aircraft, hopefully we will see new routes being announced (they do have a company coming in to look into new potential routes ect)

A return to LH would be a good move but they need to find routes they can make work. And to those who say they were never good at LH in the last don't know what they are on about. Considering they only had two proper LH aircraft (A330) they made the operation work very well

[greatoaks]

Or bin off LBA and move down the road to DSA.
TOM are creaming the top off these routes and MON could take the B&S market for South Yorkshire, North Notts & Humberside areas.

[inOban]

What you are all saying is that Monarch needs a Unique Selling Point, and it's not clear what that is. Inbound tourists are certainly a growth market, but Monarch surely don't have a brand in these countries; they're more likely to use an airline they've heard of. The only possibility to me, not already mentioned, is to target the specialist tour operators who currently book space on Easyjet or Ryanair. Their customers might appreciate being away from the hoards.

[1994Heavy]

What other regional airports could they move into?

[crewmeal]

It seems that the Nile Cruise market is picking up once again after the horrors of the revolution. It would be good to see Monarch fly to Luxor and tap into this market and combine it with a Red Sea break in Hughada.

[rog747]

Yes I think in the past Monarch have been sheep, waited for others to do it and followed.

A return to LH would be a good move but they need to find routes they can make work. And to those who say they were never good at LH in the last don't know what they are on about. Considering they only had two proper LH aircraft (A330) they made the operation work very well

yes but they made sterling good work of the 757's A300's the venerable DC-10 (and MD11 leases) plus the 767-300

back in the day the BAH and BGR (for MCO) hubs saw a few crews there with onward flights tech stopping in BAH for charters to Goa Agra CMB Male Trivandrum

the 757 went everywhere at first then the A300's took over
the 757 continued with Agra and Kerala

Mombasa tech stopped at Cairo or was it HER?

the A330's came into their own for non-stops to Goa USA/Canada, a big Caribbean programme and Male Maldives

the DC-10 was used for mainly Florida or as a short haul people mover

[rog747]

It seems that the Nile Cruise market is picking up once again after the horrors of the revolution. It would be good to see Monarch fly to Luxor and tap into this market and combine it with a Red Sea break in Hughada.

yes Monarch had many flights to the Nile region Luxor and Aswan - A massive programme indeed
(and likewise of course to the Red Sea too - SSH Marsa Alarm and Hurghada plus Aqaba and Eilat too via Ovda)

any return to the Nile destinations (my Fav's and I sorely miss going there) is driven by the FCO & local security and is then up to the Tour operators such as Red Sea holidays Kuoni VJV etc to take the risk to go back
the market is there but depends when it is safe to go back en-masse - but frankly in the current climes I cannot see that happening for yonks

operators putting their toes back in the Nile region use Egyptair who still have their LHR Monday LXR non-stop - not sure if Thomon's LXR charter still operates for next season?

[renort]

Considering they only had two proper LH aircraft (A330) they made the operation work very well

kind of...

back in the days of the A330's both aircraft were chartered out to longhaul tour operators, a significant amount of flying in Summer was done for Airtours/Cooks etc and winter for specialists in India and MLE. None of it had to be marketed and sold by Monarch, once it was sold to the tour operators it was money in the bank and the risk is with the tour ops to make yields work for them. Often the flight is a loss leader for the accommodation you can sell on Longhaul.

That market has gone.

Either in house to the big tour ops, off to Emirates etc for routes such as India and MLE and up in smoke in the case of Egypt and Banjul.

If Monarch were to re-enter longhaul and do it off their own back they need to start from scratch.

Pipedreams are nice I guess. But people need to face facts. Starting a longhaul operation from nothing again would bleed more cash than anyone can get their hands on, and anyone expecting Boeing to sugar-daddy Monarch back into a sustainable existence reminiscent of past glories is deluding themselves.

The blame lies in the inaction of the previous management to do anything other than fill their own pockets. Too many ships have sailed. They need to find the right size and carry on doing what they do well and hope it works.

[crewmeal]

operators putting their toes back in the Nile region use Egyptair who still have their LHR Monday LXR non-stop - not sure if Thomon's LXR charter still operates for next season?

The only way to fly to Luxor now is using Egyptair's daily service via Cairo. The direct service is a winter only flight. Whilst Hurghada is in full swing with Thomas Cook, Thomson and others, the Nile cruise industry needs heavy investment. There are around 300 boats lolling around the Nile with only around 30 in service. A sad situation but no operators seem to move to get it going again.

[rog747]

thanks - well the winter is the High Season on the Nile of course -

i did the SS Karim twice and the SS Sudan paddle steamers about 10-12 years ago - am awesome way to plod down the Nile and see the wonders unfold

I guess these vessels are laid up

[1994Heavy]

A source in Boeing claims they have signed of on some b787

[canberra97]

Any link to your claim which I find VERY unlikely.

[billyg]

MOL spouting that Monarch are "burning money" and will struggle to get through the winter.

[planedrive]

Well I find that a lot easier to believe than the ridiculous rumour two posts before...

[brian_dromey]

A source in Boeing claims they have signed of on some b787

The only ones that would be likely to be available quickly would be the last of the "terrible teens", the first 20, or so, 787s off the production line, which very few airlines were mad enough to take. They are essentially individually hand built, with a lot of "re-work" done to them.

The initial A380s have similar, overweight, overly complex maintenance requirement, which has led to them being retired by Singapore Airlines after just 10 years. the initial 787s are so bad not even business jet operators will have them.

If MON do take some of these, the lunatics really will be running the asylum.

EDIT: It seems they have been sold. Where would MON get 787s quickly?

[ATNotts]

MOL spouting that Monarch are "burning money" and will struggle to get through the winter.

O'Leary is "spouting" that pretty well all airlines in Europe except for his (surprise, surprise) IAG, AF-KLM, Lufthansa and possibly EasyJet are going belly up.

More like wishful thinking on his behalf than reality - but then when did he last consider allowing the truth getting in the way of a good press release!?

[01475]

Just because O'Leary says it doesn't mean it's not true!

[Jerry123]

MOL could say that about a lot of airlines especially ones that rely summer sun routes but if you look at Monarch they are introducing more city routes which may be more viable in winter.

[01475]

As ever I wish them luck and hope they don't need it, but that's a market that other people are involved in with a range of slightly different USPs and competitive advantages. What can Monarch bring to the party?

[Cazza_fly]

Ideally Monarch need to be pushing their Monarch Holidays brand further and better using their knowledge and expertise they have gained over the years of offering such product as an advantage.

They should also make better use of their Vantage card product as a USP. Perhaps join forces with Avios to collect and spend points on it. Tier points should be earned depending on flight spend / distance flown as per the current card, although with easier to obtain perks closer matching the likes of BAs Executive Club... This is something not really seen in the low cost market but absolutely does attract repeat business.

Finally, with their new Max 8's on the way they will finally have a standardised fleet. The new aircraft should better match demand across a larger mix of destinations throughout the year. I feel while the A321 has been perfect for their summer sun routes and previous charter days, it's also been too big to venture into new scheduled markets outside of this, especially during quieter parts of the year. Yes they have the A320 but again this adds a degree of complexity for scheduling to fit in whuch aircraft can fly to where.

Monarch already have a lot going for them - i feel it's just been a case of them not using these positives to their own advantage. As soon as the new aircraft arrive hopefully we'll soon see new markets and destination pop up on the route map. Alongside their bread and butter routes, perhaps they should have a focus on offering more niche routes from their current bases. As for long haul it's really not the be all and end all. Personally they should stay clear of this for the near future at the very least and completely focus on growing shorthaul and pushing their product.

[FQTLSteve]

As a frequent traveller with Monarch mainly from AGP-BHX I'm concerned about the capacity issues with the new 737Max versus the A321. I always go for extra legroom seats although they sell very quickly in the summer, and I often have to be flexible on dates to get them. and that's with 2 A321's daily on said route. Will they still have as many extra legroom seats on the 737? Will the capacity issue increase the fare? Do they want to decrease their market share? I'd like to hear from those with more info on this.

[monarch767]

Yeah it will have 6 rows of extra legroom at the front and 2/3 rows at the overwing. The inflight product as such won't be changing.

[Cazza_fly]

As a frequent traveller with Monarch mainly from AGP-BHX I'm concerned about the capacity issues with the new 737Max versus the A321. I always go for extra legroom seats although they sell very quickly in the summer, and I often have to be flexible on dates to get them. and that's with 2 A321's daily on said route. Will they still have as many extra legroom seats on the 737? Will the capacity issue increase the fare? Do they want to decrease their market share? I'd like to hear from those with more info on this.

It's not about wanting to decrease their market share? Once the whole fleet has been delivered, there should actually be a significant increase in available seats on offer compared to currently.

There has been no confirmation on cabin configuration for the Max's as yet. Capacity wise you should be looking closer to the A320 for comparison. As for extra space seats, there's every possibilty that they will offer the same amount as the A321's or more. The A320's already offer an additional row (6 more seats) of extra space than the A321's do. It all depends on if the economics will still add up to remove a row of seats, although personally i'd say they're definitely a good ancillary earner for them. If Monarch decide to go for a smaller forward galley (by removing the galley 2 area), they will be able to offer the same amount of extra space seats as on their A320s (54) whilst being able to achieve 186 seats in total. An additional 12 seats vs the A320.

[VC10man]

Last year my wife and 2 friends flew Monarch to Larnaca. They paid extra and booked their seats, many months before, and chose row 5. Shortly after she received an email saying that they had been moved to row 9 because of a change of aircraft. This year she had booked MON flights to Funchal, choosing her seats and guess what, there is a change of aircraft and she has been moved some rows back.

Why are Monarch doing this as it doesn't matter whether the aircraft is a A320 or A321. She is not that bothered but wonders why pay more to chose your seat and then get moved.

[qwertyuiop]

One of Monarch's problems at the moment is the lack of commonality within the fleet.
You pay a premium in advance without the airline knowing which aircraft will be used. The introduction of a common fleet is long overdue and will eradicate all of these glitches.

[FQTLSteve]

Cazza fly Thanks for your reply and explanation regarding seats etc. Interesting to see that there will be more seats available but in reference to the BHX-AGP service I was referring to 2x A321 versus 2x 737Max must be a significant seat availability reduction, and this summer the A321's appear to be full most of the time. I think they'll put the fares up because there'll be more people chasing fewer seats.

[Jerry123]

Or with more aircraft in the fleet they could add extra rotations.

[inOban]

The collapse in the £ must eventually lead to a fall in the number of second and third holidays. I think there will be a shortage of PAX, not seats.

[ratchetring]

I think most people are prepared to take the hit ..whats the alternative ? 2 weeks in a miserable wet and windy blighty

[1994Heavy]

Where does everyone see the future with Monarch? Merge? LH? New bases?

[ratchetring]

I think in order to survive long term a merger is likely

[Skipness One Echo]

There's no upside to anyone else in merging with Monarch. They need to carve out a niche somehow but the idea that easyJet or another would in any way want to take on Monarch would be a surprise.

[Snapper5]

LH is definitely needed at MON without it I think the airline is a sinking ship !
But don't underestimate the spending power of greybull , they have very deep pockets and believe it or not have made money from MON ,
I believe there is also something dodgy happening behind the scenes with greybull/mantagezza

[canberra97]

But hasn't the Mantagezza family totally sold out to Greybull?

[Snapper5]

Yes they have on paper , but in reality they know each other very well !
I believe one of the sons of greybull is marrying a daughter of mantagazza

All pretty greasy Italian money spreading

[canberra97]

Being personal friends or even closer means nothing, why would anyone from the Mantagezza family want to get involved with Monarch again be it directly or via Greybull.

[Snapper5]

Because the family will
Make a great deal of money from the boeings

[AirportPlanner1]

There's no upside to anyone else in merging with Monarch. They need to carve out a niche somehow but the idea that easyJet or another would in any way want to take on Monarch would be a surprise.

Except of course that Monarch hold hard-to-come-by slots at LGW and LTN.

[chaps1954]

And a lot at Manchester at prime times to add to AirportPlanner1
There is no way Monarch should get back into LH as there are enough
operators in the market with BA/VC/TCX/Norwegian/TOM/Rouge and TSC plus
Primera joining as they have just about all the viable long haul covered

[renort]

The nature of Monarch's programme means it would be hard to build a daily schedule around their portfolio. Not that great an asset.

[rog747]

the long haul ship for Monarch has sailed long ago

there is no competitive LH or LH charter market left that is not fraught with economical and commercial dangers - the world is no longer stable enough and too many new boys on the block and legacy carriers competing with and on leisure routes

if it was my airline (and I am proud to have worked for Monarch in its heyday) I see any risk exposure to these markets would be suicidal

[GDAJB]

Because the family will
Make a great deal of money from the boeings

How will they do that?

[Snapper5]

Via sale and leaseback, supposedly they will get $4mill per airframe so around $180 mil in 2022 when the final max is delivered

[rog747]

dont think that means that

greybull or whosoever is investing the dosh buy the airframes from Boeing then sell them back to them or a leasing co. and then lease them back to monarch

[1994Heavy]

I think they have to change something they can't just keep on competing with ryanair and easyjet. What do people think they should do?

[WindSheer]

Monarch need to do exactly what Jet2 are doing. Create a respectable family brand.

[Cazza_fly]

I think they have to change something they can't just keep on competing with ryanair and easyjet. What do people think they should do?

Well they do have to compete with them too as this is the industry they're all in, but i get what you're saying...

I have however mentioned many things in my post above. It's not so much in what they need to do so differently. They are, contrary to the doom and gloom from some on here, actually doing quite well. Monarch have already got a good thing going and they're on the right path again since the streamlining a couple years back or so. I agree of course they could be doing even better though.

They need to play more on their strengths and not be afraid in showing them off to their full potential. Monarch Holidays, Vantage Club, a respectful route network, 50 years of experience, Monarch Engineering to name but just a few of the things they as a company have to be proud of and should be using more to their benefit.

I feel once the 737 Max-8's arrive, we'll see Monarch head to new places in more ways than one. Again, as I mentioned a few posts back, they should focusing on niche routes from their current bases whilst still of course keeping a foothold in their bread and butter sunshine routes. However, with their current mix of aircraft i feel it will have been hard to venture into these types of routes - mainly because of aircraft size, but also complexity in schedulling where a A320 / A321 will need to end up flying to before / afterwards.

[ratchetring]

Monarch need to do exactly what Jet2 are doing. Create a respectable family brand.

Would have thought monarch despite the problems have a far more "respectable" image than jet 2 which rightly or wrongly are perceived as rather pikey by many

[ATNotts]

I would say perhaps Jet2 could be terms more brash / in your face; whereas the the image Monarch portrays is more "classy" - up market if you like.

The substance might be totally different of course.

[rog747]

Jet2 are ramping up and getting quite a credible competitor in many of MON's airports and certainly now in the London area (STN) too -
a fleet of 60 a/c being renewed as well

The Jet 2 brand and Jet2 name is improving steadily and healthly - I think they are gaining much steam as the big player behind TUI and TCX in the IT market with Jet2 holidays as well as the seat only sales.

Monarch's family owned holiday brand Cosmos was not part of the greybull deal,
the Cosmos name and brand was good since 1961 along with sister company Globus (both of which the family still own)
- with Monarch doing the flying for Cosmos from 1968 until 2015 when ties were dropped


Monarch Holidays website is dire and looks messy - where do you start...

not digging at MON (i used to work for them at LGW - great times) but where are they going ?

[rog747]

Monarch need to do exactly what Jet2 are doing. Create a respectable family brand.

the family had that with Cosmos and Monarch from 1968...

but sadly airlines and tour companies now reap only what they sewed - they all dismantled the holiday package bit by bit and you ended up with the Lo-Co carriers sweeping the board with the once IT charter reliant carriers foundering one by one trying to keep up - read Monarch here still treading water as the only one left
- now the nice bits (bags meals reserved seats transfers) are difficult to put back cost wise

Now, folk maybe are turning back to wanting a full package deal especially with the state of the currencies v the £ now which show no sign of improvements

BTW there is no niche UK charter carrier left now - not one - Titan airways picks up bits and bobs like Cunard cruise charters and Corsican places to calvi and Figari plus some ski flights in winter

BA has a massive weekend charter programme form LHR to many Greek Islands Corsica and Sardinia plus Cunard cruise charters
also from the regionals EDI ABZ IOM HUM and GLA using BACF EMB a/c

small planet germania volotea and enter air plus some french and Turkish outfits seem to be picking up niche IT work past few years from both regionals and London

[Serenity]

So the long haul/feeder tie ups between EasyJet, Norwegian and West Jet, a missed opportunity for Monarch to use their expansion fleet?
Guess now, even if Monarch do announce long haul they won't stand a cat in hells chance of making it work?
Where do they go now?
Who do they tie up with if anyone?

[toledoashley]

Keep an eye out for some possible news shortly.

[Beanjet]

Vueling could be a possible link up if they are in a position to and looking to expand their networks.

[BHX5DME]

Vueling are pulling back from the regions !
Monarch and Norwegian is more likely - agreed watch this space

[MKY661]

I think it's around now when new routes tend to be announced? I heard a rumour about a new route to Zagreb from Birmingham. Let's hope it's some good news.

[mondayrunner]

Keep an eye out for some possible news shortly.

Good or bad news?

[Brigantee]

Given who has posted it i'd guess they are salivating at the prospect of someone losing their job....So my money's on bad , If of course there is any substance to the report of "news"....

[Burpbot]

Zagreb is already operating I think?

It be good news for a change ��

[toledoashley]

I'm not salivating at anything... As of the moment, no 'news'.

[1994Heavy]

So just because someone has said there's going to be an announcement, you all start speculating about it being bad. I do hope for the Monarch employees it's not bad. From what I have heard it sounds like they have a group of great employees who all seem to enjoy working together. Not many other companies have that (mine included). I wish them well

[ratchetring]

I suspect toledoashley is talking complete boloxs...

[crewmeal]

As Monarch are advertising for Cabin Crew at most bases and inviting candidates for interview then I doubt whether they would waste money on hotel accommodation if it was bad news.

[toledoashley]

No, I have heard (from a good source) there is some movement going on behind the scenes, but what outcome that will have I don’t know.

[1994Heavy]

Good source being someone who works there?

[Snapper5]

Supposedly 2 announcements , one small one and a significant second one .
Rumours where it was supposed to be revealed on Thursday.... part of me believes that #savetheday will happen again !
Lots of hype (people think it's LH) but I reckon it will be as average as a new route announced e.g...

[Jerry123]

It isn't inconceivable that Monarch would go back into long haul. They have the MAX aircraft arriving in 2018, 3 of there bases have little or no long haul competition BHX,LTN and LBA. I can't see it being that hard for them to lease wide body aircraft or even wet lease until they can get there own. There is even the potential for them to expand it to other airports like EDI or CWL.

[ratchetring]

Good source being someone who works there?

Very strong rumour they are looking at using the new max aircraft on a number of routes to certain South American countries these include Bolivia , Patagonia and Uruguay as these countries are at present are very under represented in the low cost market and offer real opportunity for growth according to my sauce

A senior monarch sauce has stated we are at present in a bit of a pickle and these new routes could really cut the mustard with the new breed of outwood looking post brexit travellers keen to taste what the brave new post brexit world offers

[Richard Taylor]

Sounds more like Monarch are about to open a fast food outlet. :ok:

[A4]

.....with the new breed of outwood looking post brexit travellers keen to taste what the brave new post brexit world offers

Seriously!? Because before Brexit no one was aware of South America? Why would you want to go on a 73Max across the south Atlantic (tech stop required?) when you can go to most places in S America from Madrid with many carriers on a wide body? Perhaps you weren't being serious.

I do wish everyone well at Monarch and hope any rumoured announcements are positive....I know what it's like to live with years of uncertainty in this industry - and then have the worse happen.

Just looked at BA. LHR to Santiago direct (14+ hours on B789 - £850 return......)

[BHX5DME]

Well World Routes is only a week away - will they announce something there (what better stage)

[SWBKCB]

Does anybody other than the organisers actually take these conventions seriously?

[TartinTon]

I take it you've never been SWBKCB....nothing ever gets decided there but it's a chance for airports to plant seeds of ideas with airlines or for ongoing conversations to be continued or revisited. Where else do you get the chance to have route opportunity conversations with 30-40 different airlines/airports over 3 days?

[SWBKCB]

I was talking about the "what better stage" comment - preaching to the converted.

Still think they're more jolly than necessity.

[ratchetring]

Seriously!? Because before Brexit no one was aware of South America? Why would you want to go on a 73Max across the south Atlantic (tech stop required?) when you can go to most places in S America from Madrid with many carriers on a wide body? Perhaps you weren't being serious.

I do wish everyone well at Monarch and hope any rumoured announcements are positive....I know what it's like to live with years of uncertainty in this industry - and then have the worse happen.

Just looked at BA. LHR to Santiago direct (14+ hours on B789 - £850 return......)


Perhaps i wasn't being serious ......what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander or is that source for the goose and sauce for the gander ?

[tubby linton]

Having transited Gander but not Goose, passengers do not want to tech stop at these out of the way spots but want to fly non-stop in a long haul aircraft. The weather in the Azores can be also very poor .
I would imagine that following the devastation in the Caribbean and Florida caused by the hurricanes the airline is thankful we are currently absent from the region. Hurricane season still has over a month to go.

[Cazza_fly]

Seriously!? Because before Brexit no one was aware of South America? Why would you want to go on a 73Max across the south Atlantic (tech stop required?) when you can go to most places in S America from Madrid with many carriers on a wide body? Perhaps you weren't being serious.


Please tell me you know the poster was joking ?

On a serious note though, I'm expecting to hear a couple of new (not long haul) routes added to the summer 18 schedule by the end of the month / early October.

Monarch are also due to renew their ATOL by the end of September, so i'm sure we'll be hearing something on that front too.

Despite the recent announcement of the pre-tax losses (which were attributed by the writing off of costs associated with the current aircraft lease agreements and combining these numbers into one single set of results), there's actually alot to be positive about at Monarch at the minute, i'm not sure for the want of negativity from some on here?

[lagerlout]

As much chance of Monarch operating there on the MAXs as there will be a non eventful ATOL renewal.

[Snapper5]

In an airline world where people think working for Easy or Ryanair is the cream of the crop it's easy to see why they want Monarch to fold ,
Even though Monarch basically scrapes along it still has some sort of respect for its staff and provides one of the best aviation jobs in Europe .
I think people hate this especially when there company makes a billion profit but they are not seeing any reward .
Also I think a huge proportion of guys on this forum are non-Pilots that sit on there computer chair , :mad: in hand and prey on people's source of income & wellbeing to make themselves feel better that they never made the grade !

[tubby linton]

As much chance of Monarch operating there on the MAXs as there will be a non eventful ATOL renewal.
The ATOL renewal will be purely for the holidays sold not on tickets.

[mrshubigbus]

Monarch have "survived" in this industry for approaching 50 years. That doesn't happen unless you are doing something right! Dozens and dozens of other carriers in the UK have come and gone in that time! Somebody in the business knows how to "hang on in there"! Some might call it luck rather than judgement but the bottom line is, somehow they are still here! With major wobbles in both 2014 and 2016 nobody either in the airline or outside has a crystal ball to predict the future. My own view is that owners Greybull aren't in the business to make just pennies. They want a very big return on turning the business around. Can they do it as a stand alone operator or will they sell to the highest bidder in an ever congested market where airports are rapidly filling up? We can speculate as much as we like about that, but right now they are still in business, taking delivery of 45 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft over the next five years and that is it! Speculate all you like, however what you might be thinking compared to what Greybull are planning are two completely separate issues. Personally I have my own thoughts but there is no point in any further speculative nonsense is there? Let's concentrate perhaps on the fact that they are "one of the survivors" of an industry littered with failures since the 1960s and celebrate that success during their 50th Anniversary next year and perhaps hope that they'll successfully steer a safe and profitable path through the next 50 years! Who knows? How many other major UK carriers can you name that are still in business trading under their original name after so long? Other than Monarch I'm struggling to think of any - and that's a fact! OK I might just accept Aurigny or Loganair!

[lagerlout]

Quite easy to keep a business going when for the vast majority of the time a profit wasn't a pre requisite. Time for a new Monarch to stand on its own and exist as a going concern rather than at the behest of rich benefactors.

[Snapper5]

Still dirty money behind the scenes so I'm quietly optimistic

[rog747]

what a load of nonsense about 737max being used for OM long haul -

I agree the max8 has long legs but the 9 trades range as usual for payload unless an extra aux fuel tank is fitted - likewise with max10

i cannot foresee any L/H markets that OM would want to place their rather fragile eggs on

[canberra97]

Still dirty money behind the scenes so I'm quietly optimistic

You seem obsessed with 'dirty money' behind the scenes stuff as in your post 4097!

What's going on in your mind that compels you to continually mentioning this sort of statement?

[Snapper5]

money obtained unlawfully or immorally.

[inOban]

Presumably you mean tax avoidance, tax evasion, or money laundering. Core business for the 'Wealth Management' business in the City.

[Snapper5]

Can't think of any other reasons why Greybull would buy Monarch when it was on the rocks , Boeings ? Partnership with Boeing itself ?
Heard they were thinking of biding for Alitalia engineering ?

Ain't pocket change

[Brigantee]

Can't think of any other reasons why Greybull would buy Monarch when it was on the rocks

Their venture capitalists it's what they do....