LEEDS 5

[BKS Air Transport]

I'd love the route to be a success, but I've received emails today for my flights in May neatly destroying my connections.

Service appears to be reduced to 3 flights daily (2 on Sat), with first flight down at 11:35!

Back to AMS I guess...

[k3lvc]

Well instead of my usual 1h20 drive to MAN I tried the 40min drive to LBA to take Mondays LBA-LHR-GVA and won't be doing it again.

Im sure when I booked the flight (when bookings first opened) it was listed as a straight T5 transfer but now seems to be a T1 arrival and subsequent walk across T1/bus transfer to T5/queue for security in T5 rather than a quick hop off the plane and up the escalators in T5 that the MAN flight enjoys

Mondays load wasn't exactly healthy and seemed to comprise mainly of BA 'suits' who's flown up for the launch

I wish the service well and may well use it for appropriate long-haul connections but for European connections not serviced from T1 LHR it's a no from me

[ConstantFlyer]

Yes, I'm booked on LHR-LBA next week and it's a T1 departure. Not great for T5 connections.

[anothertyke]

I am new on here but have been reading the forum for a year or more. Putting the last three responses together and thinking of my travel patterns, I am having difficulty seeing what traffic that schedule post May is going to attract. Possibly some Yorkshire-US? Possibly some European and near East destinations? Possibly some high value meetings at Heathrow? Where is the traffic coming from?

[CabinCrewe]

"Not great for T5 connections"
Why not, albeit not same terminal but a straightforward internal coach transfer, better than no LBA route at all.

[pwalhx]

A straightforward coach transfer, you are not serious I have not had a straightforward coach transfer at Heathrow yet.

[LBIA]

Good to see that Rt. Hon William Hague MPm finally opened the £11 million pound terminal investment at Leeds Bradford Airport this morning.

Leeds Bradford Airport £11 million pound terminal investment officially opens (http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/news/2012-12-14-terminal-launch)

Now lets hope this might spur Bridgepoint Capital to start investment on the long over-due Terminal Building Extension which was promised a few years ago, They already have planning permission to do so by Leeds City Council...

[intortola]

Quite often transfer between T3 and T5 when visiting UK and have never had a problem with the bus transfer. Never waited more than few minutes, maybe i have been lucky!

[k3lvc]

The issue for me is the transit time difference between arriving in LHR ex MAN and ex LBA - for ex MAN I arrive in the north end of T5 Main, off the plane, a quick boarding card check and I'm in the departure lounge in less than 5 mins

Arriving in T1 I have to walk literally the entire length of the terminal to central transfers, be bussed to the south end of T5 Main then have to go through the full security process again

LBIA will keep my business for the next few months with the direct flights to GVA but once the summer schedule returns I'm likely to find MAN more convenient again from an end-to-end journey point of view

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "who is the LBA-LHR schedule useful for?
I am new on here but have been reading the forum for a year or more. Putting the last three responses together and thinking of my travel patterns, I am having difficulty seeing what traffic that schedule post May is going to attract. Possibly some Yorkshire-US? Possibly some European and near East destinations? Possibly some high value meetings at Heathrow? Where is the traffic coming from?"

At a guess:
(1) those not travelling to/from the city centre at one or both ends;
(2) those making connections at Heathrow;
(3) those who may not wish to/be unable to drive;
(4) those who find it more convenient than travelling via Ringway;
(5) those who, in some cases, may find it it cheaper and/or more convenient than the train.



Quote: ""Not great for T5 connections"
Why not, albeit not same terminal but a straightforward internal coach transfer, better than no LBA route at all."

Indeed, so much better than no LBA route, so please use it! Many UK airports would benefit by having a route to/from LHR.


Quote: "The issue for me is the transit time difference between arriving in LHR ex MAN and ex LBA - for ex MAN I arrive in the north end of T5 Main, off the plane, a quick boarding card check and I'm in the departure lounge in less than 5 mins

Arriving in T1 I have to walk literally the entire length of the terminal to central transfers, be bussed to the south end of T5 Main then have to go through the full security process again"

If your baggage is checked through, it may be easier to do a landside transfer: take the train between LHR1 and LHR5 (and vice versa), it's free and four times/hour. By the way, the tube is not free. Even with baggage, it can be done relatively easily as there are lifts between the terminals and the platforms.

As for security, it makes no difference, airside or landside, it has to be gone through again.

[AP1995]

Jet2 fly to Geneva throughout the summer months so you dont need to use MAN

[airhumberside]

Depends when exactly you want to go to GVA. The route isn't fully year round, stopping for around a month from mid-April to mid-May and then again from mid-September to December

[k3lvc]

Jet2 fly to Geneva throughout the summer months so you dont need to use MAN

Indeed they do but a single flight on a Saturday isn't much use for a Monday-Friday commute

As for security, it makes no difference, airside or landside, it has to be gone through again.

But when arriving from Manchester into T5 I don't have to go through security at all - a quick boarding card check at the bottom of the escalators and you're in the departure lounge in less than 5 mins from doors open

[vectisman]

Slightly irritating to read some of the cynical responses to the new LHR-Leeds route. From my point of view its refreshing to see extra flights from the regions opening up options for worldwide onward travel from Heathrow. Some people moan for years wanting the service back and then when it does start up moan again because it may not suit them 100%!! Some people on here and indeed other forums are becoming far too precious. How appalling to have to walk a short distannce for a connection or heavens above actually take a short bus ride!! For most of us we are grateful to have the opportunity to fly occasionally on leisure or business and find it enjoyable nearly all the time. For me travelling is just as much fun as getting there. Maybe those who have to travel so often become jaded. Do remember though, we always have a choice about what we do and when we do it.
Maybe its my fault for being relaxed about such matters and treating most difficulties good and bad as part of day to day life experiences that have have to be dealt with.
Thanks
V.

[North West]

I'd love the route to be a success, but I've received emails today for my flights in May neatly destroying my connections.

Service appears to be reduced to 3 flights daily (2 on Sat), with first flight down at 11:35!

It always was planned to 3 x daily for the summer; It's only 4 daily for winter so they can keep a slot warm, which is why you have 2 afternoon flights within a couple of hours of each other.

[k3lvc]

Slightly irritating to read some of the cynical responses to the new LHR-Leeds
route. From my point of view its refreshing to see extra flights from the
regions opening up options for worldwide onward travel from Heathrow. Some
people moan for years wanting the service back and then when it does start up
moan again because it may not suit them 100%!! Some people on here and indeed other forums are becoming far too precious. How appalling to have to walk a short distannce for a connection or heavens above actually take a short bus ride!!

Cynical ? Moi ??

I'd love the service to work but it just doesn't for me (and I'd be a weekly passenger) - as an example that I've just checked for January the LBA-LHR-GVA and return costs me more than the MAN-LHR-GVA equivalent and the overall return journey time is 10h25m from LBA vs 7h30m from MAN. Whilst the driving distance from York to Manchester is further the Valet Car Parking at MAN is both cheaper and closer than Long Term at LBA cancelling out most of the additional mileage cost/time.

When I'm travelling for pleasure things may be different but at the moment time is money and on that basis BA from LBA is not for me

[LBIA]

Why fly LBA-GVA via LHR with British Airways when both Jet2 and easyjet now offer direct flights?

Easyjet.com = 5x weekly, MON, THU, FRI, SAT & SUN
Jet2.com = 4x weekly, MON, THU, SAT & SUN (Extra flights added Feb to Apr)

[k3lvc]

Why fly LBA-GVA via LHR with British Airways when both Jet2 and easyjet now offer direct flights?

Easyjet.com = 5x weekly, MON, THU, FRI, SAT & SUN
Jet2.com = 4x weekly, MON, THU, SAT & SUN (Extra flights added Feb to Apr)

Whilst these flights are operating over the ski season then I will fly direct and I've booked the majority already - however once May comes I've no direct alternative :(

[offint]

I have just booked 2 Business Class seats to HKG in March and living in Ilkley would have liked to use LBA however BA price was £6679.30 for us both and Qatar from Manchester was £3267.90.......no brain'er really, far better airline, far far better food and service with a modern fleet and only 1 hour longer, how BA expect the LBA feeder route be be successful when their prices are twice the price of much better airlines is beyond me.

I hope I'm wrong but that route cannot sustain 4 daily flights and I can see them suspending it in 12 months.....as I said I hope I'm wrong.

[LBIA]

Good news Monarch Airlines have just announced there winter 2013/2014 flying programme from there new Leeds/Bradford base.

They will continue to base at least 1x Airbus A320 and operate flights to Munich and Grenoble as this winter and will also add winter sun routes to Arrecife, Faro, Cyprus-Larnaca and Tenerife South.

[eMACaRe]

Why not go Newcastle - Geneva with Easyjet?

[Hipennine]

"Why not go Newcastle - Geneva with Easyjet?"

It's several years since NCL-GVA was an all year service

[pwalhx]

Why not just let the poor guy fy from where he wants. He has obviously investigated all the available options.

[aeulad]

LHR-LBA 1350 dep on weds 32 pax

LBA-LHR 1555 dep on weds 37 pax

For midweek, middle of the day, on a brand new route, it could be worse. Jst hoping morning/evening times are better, that the locals in Yorkshire 'use it or loose it', and that BA put a nightstopper in from the start of the summer skeds.

Kind regards

Mike

[pwalhx]

Haven't had the chance to use the flights yet myself but a colleague did last week and reported similar figures.

[Gate 8]

Offint

IIRC you posted identically in June and you clearly have a point that the saving is considerable.

However surely LBA is better placed than MAN/GLA/EDI/NCL etc in this regard?

From those airports the option is simple Qatar/Etihad/EK etc with zero extra travelling or BA.

From LBA you did have to consider whether the saving was worth the trek over the Pennines. Of course at circa £3,000 you argue that it was but someone booking economy to HKG who has the option of BA from LBA or EK from MAN with perhaps £150 saving may well elect to use LBA.

Furthermore, BA fill 11 flights ex MAN and a great majority are connecting traffic ALL of whom have the option to use the Gulf carriers.

You must concede that your assertion that the route is stuffed based on your example hardly stands up?

I do agree fwiw that 4/day was too many and I personally think the 3 in S13 will work better even with the late first southbound.

I've seen the loads on every flight and plenty are doing ok with many in the 70's now. The 0700 north and 2100 south are a waste of time.

The telling time will be the first quarter of 2013. Starting on Dec 9th was ridiculous and at best a 'soft launch' to get the operation going. Word is out there now, the a/c are very smart lets see how many back it in the new year.

Oh and as someone else said can people please stop morning about the T1 aspect. The terminal transfer is not that arduous. Yes we'd all like T5 but DUS and BFS, 2 very established routes are also in T1, T5 isn't big enough and thesis a new venture, it was always going to start here. I have it on the best authority going that LBA , IF it demonstrates the sort of figs expected, will have a night stopper and be in T5 within 18 months. That will only happen if we back it.

[Gate 8]

aeulad's figures are absolutely accurate however here are the figs for the same flights on the next 2 days, Thursday & Friday 20/21

Thursday 61 & 37
Friday 71 & 37

Not seismic increases but better all the same.

Rgds

[Runway 32/14]

Tonight PIA flight has been Cancelled!!
does any one know why???:sad:

[HOODED]

It was showing a big delay earlier on the arrivals board so I suspect they cancelled due to it being due to depart during the stupid night curfew that was put in place as a condition of the runway extension many years ago.

PIA have fallen foul of it many times and have promised to put a quiter aircraft on the route (B777) but still use the A310. LBA still hasn't seen a 777 so I doubt they ever will mainly due to runway length.

It is known that PIA tried to pull the route back to MAN last year but were persuaded to stay by a councilor who used to work in the travel industry. It is clear that the route is viable with the large Pakastani community in Bradford, but it doesn't make sense to PIA to operate from both LBA and MAN. They even stated that the trip across to MAN wouldn't be too much of an incovenience for the Yorkshire pax.

The only danger is that if they do pull the route back, the travel agent that started the flights with Shaheen may ask them back now they have a 767 and 2 A330s, and if they upped the flights again back to 3 weekly PIAs MAN operation would certainly suffer.

[North West]

it doesn't make sense to PIA to operate from both LBA and MAN


...so does it make sense for Jet2 / Ryanair / Monarch etc to operate from both ?

[chaps2011]

More interesting will be the Air Blue effect now an A340 from A319

Chaps

[slatgrille]

Can anyone shed any light on the sometimes spectacular climb out on the A319 LBA-LHR Flight Plan - climb rates sometimes in excess of 5,000 fpm and FL180 cruise by around Pole Hill - light loads or standard procedures ?

[CabinCrewe]

I think we all now know the answer to that...

[Facelookbovvered]

5T of fuel 5T of pax = home sick angel

Remain to be convinced by the viability of this route for BA, other than West bound long haul AMS is a better option than LHR add the Leeds weather factor, getting piss wet through in the car park (no multi story or walk to terminal dry route) point to point Leeds to London the train is less strain and you don't have to take your wet shoes off or get undressed, time will tell, brave move by BA or slot sitter?

[FRatSTN]

I must say that Leeds Bradford is one of the worst airports for consistancy of flights throughout the day. Have a look here at what the departures board would show (as the airlines schedules currently stand at the moment) for Mondays in summer 2013:

KL1540 06:20 Amsterdam
BM1611 06:30 Brussels-International
FR153 06:30 Dublin
LS257 06:30 Palma de Mallorca
FR1584 06:35 Fuerteventura
FR2494 06:40 Milan-Bergamo
LS197 06:45 Ibiza
LS185 07:00 Malaga
LS201 07:00 Amsterdam
LS389 07:15 Madeira
ZB7584 07:15 Minorca
LS271 07:20 Alicante
LS343 07:30 Venice-Marco Polo
LS375 07:30 Minorca
ZB7572 07:30 Munich
T34502 07:55 Aberdeen
LS251 08:00 Faro
LS323 08:30 Belfast-International
LS331 08:30 Rome-Fiumicino
BE172 08:40 Southampton
LS231 08:45 Barcelona
BE730 08:50 Belfast-City
FR9079 09:05 Alicante
FR1503 09:30 Gdansk
KL1546 10:15 Amsterdam
LS241 10:30 Nice
TOM698 10:35 Dalaman
T34503 10:45 Bristol
BA1341 11:35 London-Heathrow
FR2472 12:10 Montpellier
ZB7592 13:20 Lanzarote
LS315 13:50 Paris-Charles de Gaulle
LS475 13:50 Dalaman
LS187 14:00 Malaga
ZB7554 14:05 Barcelona
LS207 14:25 Murcia
LS227 15:00 Palma de Mallorca
LS477 15:05 Gran Canaria
BA1343 15:50 London-Heathrow
LS265 16:00 Malaga
LS273 16:05 Alicante
LS215 16:20 Bodrum
BE732 16:35 Belfast-City
BM1615 16:35 Brussels-International
LS195 16:40 Prague
LS259 16:40 Corfu
FR2322 16:45 Murcia
T34506 16:45 Aberdeen
FR2503 16:50 Faro
BE174 17:00 Southampton
FR2446 17:00 Malaga
KL1550 17:15 Amsterdam
FR2332 17:35 Krakow
LS347 18:00 Dusseldorf
T34507 19:35 Bristol
FR157 19:40 Dublin
BE734 20:10 Belfast-City
ZB7536 20:30 Bodrum
BE176 20:45 Southampton
BA1345 21:00 London-Heathrow
TOM3168 22:10 Palma de Mallorca

There is a huge gap of virtually nothing in late morning/early afternoon and then again early/mid evening with it being very busy early morning and late afternoon. I know this could change between now and the summer but it won't change much so why is there so many flights at once? Is Leeds Bradford a large maintainance base and airlines do this so they can swap aircraft between turnarounds or is it just how it is? Jet2 in particular seems to have very busy periods and then hours with nothing.

[MUFC_fan]

Look at a lot of major airports with large number of based aircraft. MAN probably being the biggest example. LGW to a lessor extent.

The aircraft go out in waves between 05:30-9am or so, away for however long, back mid-afternoon for the second wave. Take a look at MAN T2 around mid-day and it's near empty.

[FRatSTN]

I'm aware that most airport have waves of traffic and see alot of early morning departures due to all the based aircraft going out but Leeds Bradford's waves seem particularly extreme.

[Bagso]

The slots BA are using at LBA are surely to ensure they don't lose them at LHR ?

I may be wrong but suspect the services will rum for the foreeable future but will disappear if BA need a new far east or South American flight..

One other point, not sure what the fascination is with LHR. If you travel to Manchester you can hop on Qatar, Etihad or Emirates all offering ONE stop to Far Ear / Australia, crucially your flight WILL operate and you wont get dumped at LHR if its foggy or snowing !

[Omnipresent]

I don't think the LHR-LBA route is slot-sitting alone. Pure slot-sitting is adding a frequency to an existing route (MAN, AMS etc), not launching a new route and procuring ground handling, investing in marketing etc.

No doubt incentives have played a part and the route will need to prove itself pretty quickly but the route was launched after BA had done a full due diligence on bmi and BA has obviously decided that there is customer base in Yorkshire worth pursuing.

December is not the best time to launch a new route and hopefully in the summer there'll be a clearer picture of its performance.

[North West]

One other point, not sure what the fascination is with LHR. If you travel to
Manchester you can hop on Qatar, Etihad or Emirates all offering ONE stop to Far Ear / Australia, crucially your flight WILL operate and you wont get dumped at LHR if its foggy or snowing !


Despite which there's 11 a flights a day ex-MAN and Virgin shortly to add another 3. No reason there shouldn't be plenty of demand ex-LBA considering lack of competition and the local catchment has always been pretty strong over there. 'LS' postcodes have always been a big money spinner for the long-stay car parks at MAN

[Gate 8]

I would put it at 60:40 slot sit:rte evaluation

As above BA would have taken the easy option if all they wanted to do was slot sit and run an odd extra EDI/MAN/GLA etc which is indeed what they were doing in the Summer.

They acquired BMI complete with its fleet of 319's and need to do something useful with them for the foreseeable. They investigated potential routes and came up with LBA & RTM. RTM is doing better than LBA load wise but LBA does have 4 a day to fill (too many from a standing start IMO) and furthermore they started both at a terrible time.

BA have invested a fair amount in setting up the Leeds operation, time will tell if enough people back it. I'm unconvinced at the moment.

Some flights have nudged 100 pax but plenty are flying around with 30/40 on them. Fair enough it's been Christmas week but the operation seems robust an the figs need to improve in the NY.

One stat for you.... Saturday's early southbound had 95 pax and 72 were connecting to (primarily) LH services.

I think 3 per day in the summer could run well an avoi the dead 7am northbound loss maker too.

[HOODED]

Interesting Stat sounds like a FRA route could work well When/If BA pull the slot sitter! Sounds like a job for Jet2.:}

[Scottie Dog]

HOODED

I think the reference to LH was long-haul and not Lufthansa - if I have read your posting correctly.

[SWBKCB]

One stat for you.... Saturday's early southbound had 95 pax and 72 were connecting to (primarily) LH services.

Would be interesting to know what the 72 would have done if the service didn't exist - not travel, ground (road/rail to LHR) or go via other airports (MAN, AMS, etc).

[HOODED]

Thanks Scottie Dog yep that makes more sense!

Regarding what those pax would have done if the service wasn't available is the key question really.

I suspect KLM would probably have done slightly better as JET2 have reduced their CDG operation and timings are not great for onward. The proportion travelling to LHR via the train I suspect is small.

BA are far from cheap from LBA to join their Long Haul although the convienience may sway a few, but I know a few who looked at their prices then decided to use KLM via AMS or EK from MAN.

I just hope they can make it work....Time will tell.:hmm:

[2Planks]

Well I hope it lasts longer than the Monarch LBA-GNB Service - axed after a month leaving a lot of wintersports enthusiasts in the lurch. Hopefully Monarch will fulfil their obligations on other routes launched at a similar time.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

It all depends on how you define "a lot" in the sentence "leaving a lot of wintersports enthusiasts in the lurch."

Forward bookings were absolutely crap, and an airline can't run a route on today's margins ( as a result of those dirt cheap fares we all like ) just as a loss leading good will gesture.

If it don't pay, it don't stay. It really is that simple, and we are all responsible for it in our demand for ever cheaper fares.

Rgds

[2Planks]

Indeed it does - but a reputation is fragile. Monarch are still offering tickets on the same route for next season - am I going to risk it - no.

[chrismoose]

Jet2 to FRA/CDG (or anywhere else) aren't much use for onward connections, unless you want to take the risk of a missed connection, and can make the timings fit. Personally I wouldn't even consider it.

[LBIA]

Good news as British Airways have this morning confirmed that its moving the Leeds/Bradford service from London Heathrow Terminal 1 to Terminal 5 as from Sunday March 31st 2013.

Leeds Bradford Flights Move to Terminal 5 (http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/news/2013-01-17-ba-flights-move-to-t5)

[goldeneye]

BA are to reduce LHR to 3xdaily from 4 from 31st March.

[LBIA]

It was always the plan goldeneye, The LBA-LHR route was suppose to be only 3 times daily when originally announced, but British Airways surprised everyone by going 4x daily.

[offint]

Yes it 3 flights a day from the 31st but the evening flight from LBA arrives at LHR at 22.10 when most of the LH fights have gone, very strange timing for a feeder and the one before that arrives around 17.00 shame it's not more 19.00 which is a good time for most LH connections.

[LBIA]

Here's the revised summer 2013 schedule for the BA service.

London Heathrow (Terminal 5) to Leeds/Bradford
BA1340 07:20 08:20 ---------------------- SAT ---
BA1340 07:50 08:50 -------------------------- SUN
BA1340 07:55 08:55 MON TUE WED THU FRI --- ---
BA1342 12:35 13:35 MON TUE WED THU FRI --- SUN
BA1342 13:50 14:50 ---------------------- SAT ---
BA1344 19:30 20:30 MON TUE WED THU FRI --- SUN

Leeds/Bradford to London Heathrow (Terminal 5)
BA1341 09:30 10:30 MON --- WED THU FRI --------
BA1341 10:05 11:05 -------------------------- SUN
BA1341 10:15 11:15 ---- TUE ---------------------
BA1341 10:35 11:35 ---------------------- SAT ---
BA1343 15:05 16:05 MON TUE ---- THU FRI ---- SUN
BA1343 15:15 16:15 --------- WED ----------------
BA1343 15:45 16:45 ---------------------- SAT ---
BA1345 21:10 22:10 MON TUE WED THU FRI --- SUN

[BKS Air Transport]

I've been looking to rebook some flights in the summer, and the Saturday timetable has changed twice this evening! At one point there were three flights on a Saturday, now it is back to two again, but with the evening rotation (shown above) replaced by a mid-afternoon one.

[LBIA]

Yep I agree with you BKS that the Saturday evening flight has been retimed yet again this evening and the flight will now operate Saturday afternoon instead.

[k3lvc]

Good news as British Airways have this morning confirmed that its moving the Leeds/Bradford service from London Heathrow Terminal 1 to Terminal 5 as from Sunday March 31st 2013.

Leeds Bradford Flights Move to Terminal 5 (http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/news/2013-01-17-ba-flights-move-to-t5)


Well that's good news and may win me back as a regular pax - all depends on how the timings fit with my connecting flights from LHR

[anothertyke]

Actually there are some good fares to be had. A friend of mine is going to San Diego in March and the add on was only £7. I was looking at a trip to Washington where it would have been £26. I wonder how such add-ons are handled in the internal accounting.

[FFHKG]

BA's move to T5 is great news if you are in transit from another BA flight. Present transit from BA international arrival in T5 to BA LDS flight at T1 is a nightmare... I did it last week and decided I would go back to using MAN as that was an easy transfer and contained within T5 - usually walk from inbound a/c and completing formalities takes around 10 minutes.

With a T1 departure, after waiting for the T1 transfer bus and the actual journey to T1 - 20 mins, it took another 10/15 minutes to complete formalities and reach the T1 domestic gate area. Added to that, BA's T1 Domestic lounge (former BM lounge) was third rate to say the very least - as it was lunchtime, would have expected at least some sandwiches, but all that was on offer was cheese and biscuits.

[Fairdealfrank]

BA transit at LHR
If an airside transfer between LHR-1 and LHR-5 is a "nightmare", do the transfer landside: if one (or both) sectors is domestic this is possible.

Take the train (not the tube) between the two terminals. It's free (the tube isn't), there's four trains/hour, and lifts at each end.

[V_2]

It's free (the tube isn't)

Actually the tube is free between any of the LHR terminals, when using an oster card. You can use Hatton Cross to change, but not to leave.

http://www.heathrowairport.com/static/Heathrow/Downloads/PDF/travel_around_Heathrow.pdf

[dbromle]

I gather Ryanair are ceasing Weeze after March. Pity as I used it a lot but hopefully will make Jet2 Dusseldorf more viable

[LBIA]

Monarch Airlines have announced that they are running a charter flight from Leeds/Bradford to London Luton on Sunday, February 24th for Bradford City fans travelling to Wembley for the league cup final game against Swansea.

Flights to be operated by A321 and bookable on the Monarch website at a cost £175 rpp.

ZB023 = LBA 06:55 - LTN 07:45 / ZB022 = LTN 22:00 - LBA 23:00

[LBIA]

Little bit of wind up at LBA and British Airways cancel all today's LHR slot sitters. What a complete joke of an operation! Especially as all other airlines are operating their flights as normal...

[Artie Fufkin]

Little bit of wind up at LBA

...ATIS was reporting gusts of over 50kts across the runway, ATC reporting windshear of -30kts on approach.

Not saying Nigel was right to cancel (there were breaks in the wind) but more than a little bit of wind.

[RobT100]

Little bit of wind up at LBA and British Airways cancel all today's LHR slot sitters. What a complete joke of an operation! Especially as all other airlines are operating their flights as normal... Sorry but had enough of these slot sitter accusations, back your statement up with facts if you want serious conversation, nuff said

[CabinCrewe]

I think we all suspect they are slot sitters, for those that don't prepare for disappointment....

[Skipness One Echo]

You know people think I'm negative but geez......

It will be a dead duck until the schedule changes to a night stopping LBA-LHR. Unless that happens for the winter, it's a clear slot sitter, there's just no way to turn a profit without point to point last minute fares. The argument then becomes is that a good use of a prime time arrival slot at LHR.

I hope it proves worth doing that.

[Fairdealfrank]

Why have the expense of opening up a new station just for slot sitting?

Wouldn't it be easier just to increase frequencies on existing routes temporarily?

Would expect the schedule to reflect connectivity with BA longhaul at LHR, maybe it doesn't.

[anothertyke]

Ideal schedule would be a night stopper with two southbound and one nothbound am and the reverse pm. That caters for both point to point and long haul well. The spring/summer schedule seems to me about as good as it gets if you just run three returns but is inevitably an uneasy compromise, first and last southbound are really too late.

[slatgrille]

Am I reading too much into this, but does the increased use of A320 lately point to more sales, or is it a case of just use the next A319/320 cab off the rank?
Remaining optimistic - and hoping the price slips to somewhere nearer competitive with NE Rail...

[mcsowden]

From the 13 March it shows a 777-2 on the PIA booking page to Leeds

[CabinCrewe]

Will be lots of leg room on a half empty 777 !

[Kazamb]

Yep indeed, PK management from Bradford sent email around today confirming fleet change.

Its apparently been introduced along with the recent fare changes on the MAN/LBA-ISB route to counter PA competition.

How much it actually succeeds is anybody's guess.

[LBIA]

Yet more good news as it looks like Austrian Airlines are returning to Leeds/Bradford next winter operating a once weekly Saturday service to Innsbruck as from Dec 21st 2013 until April 5th 2014 for Inghams Holidays.

Inghams launch new ski holiday options, direct from Leeds Bradford Airport (http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/news/2013-02-06-inghams-ski-holidays)

[LBIA]

Well it has just been officially announced and confirmed on the routes news website that PIA are upgrading the 2x weekly Islamabad - Leeds/Bradford flights from the current Airbus A310 operation to Boeing 777-200's as from Wednesday, March 13th 2013.

Routes News - Pakistan International Airlines to introduce B777 on Leeds (http://www.routes-news.com/news/item/971-pakistan-international-airlines-to-introduce-b777-on-leeds%E2%80%93bradford-flights)

[crewmeal]

Perhaps it will go via MAN or BHX to pick up passengers or even tech stop for fuel.

[A300BOY]

Tonights flight on the A310 has no economy seats and only 4 business seats available outbound according to the booking engine so maybe the bigger aircraft is justified.

[Runway 32/14]

PIA777-200 is a direct flight from Leeds to Islamabad!!
no tech stops or going to man or birm first!!!

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I'm told the upguage has 6 months to prove its worth and whether it can justify the draw down from MAN.

I guess we'll reconvene in September to see whether it's worked out or not. If it hasn't, it'll be a case of shut up shop and consolidate back to MAN.

Rgds

[2Planks]

Well that's about 5 months longer than Monarch gave the Grenoble flights this year! Hope it sticks around for everybody's sake.

[HOODED]

Well if it doesn't work out and they do pull back to MAN the Bradford travel agent will not be a happy bunny. I suppose he could always give Shaheen a call as they now have some A330s or even see if Jet2 could pick up the route , there has been rumors of them getting some 767s. They could always test the route with a 757 with a tech stop if required.

[Planeaddict]

The runway is pretty short - will be interesting to see if the 777 can manage it.

I don't see why it's still 2x weekly - surely the flights are filling up on the A310?

[Ringwayman]

without looking at the timetable but going off the CAA's stats, at 2 weekly they appear to be carrying around 150 or so passengers per flight. Suitable for airblue's A319s/A321s but doing a tech-stop in Istanbul like they used to with their MAN flights.

[CabinCrewe]

The 777 can easily manage it, especially as from a pax view, will be half empty !

[crewmeal]

Whilst I wish LBA the best of luck with the 777 operation, I can't help thinking will PIA make any money out of this operation. We know that the airline is govt funded, but surely there are bean counters who will one day say 'enough is enough' if this aircraft is allowed to run half empty.

Having flown PIA many times I found that very few Europeans travel to Pakistan purely because of the problems there. Hardly a tourist hot spot unlike India. Even if PIA were to organise an aggressive marketing campaign for the route all it will do is water down the MAN-ISB route.

[BKS Air Transport]

I think PIA's concern is that they are suffering significant leakage to airblue and their revamped product. This is why they are upgrading the equipment. There is no doubt that there are more than enough potential passengers on this side of the Pennines to make the service work, if they can keep hold of them.

It is a bit of a problem for them, bacause if they do "retrench to Manchester", they will lose their USP, and airblue will quite likely pick up even more.

@ planeaddict

I like your idea that they would send an aircraft over unsure as to whether it could land or not!!

[CabinCrewe]

"This is why they are upgrading the equipment"
PK don't really think like that. Within the airline there are all sorts of aircraft shortages and A310's to be upgraded or withdrawn. This is a damage limitation measure and will last less than 6 months at most, I feel.
Haven't heard anymore about a rumoured resumption of GLA which is where I thought an extra A310 might have gone.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

An AirBlue A321 would be the perfect aircraft for LBA, even if it did entail a fuelling stop in SAW.

Rgds

[North West]

MAN will be rolling out an ad campaign in the LBA catchment this week. The theme will be "your global airport - 56 miles away" and will market; long haul flights such as New York. It will be a counter to the big sales push LBA / BA are making within the trade to get people on LBA -LHR - US. Passengers from the LBA catchment make up between 30 - 40% on MAN - US so it will be an interesting battle for Summer.

[CabinCrewe]

I don't think the current LBA-LHR loads will be causing anyone at MAN any real concern

[North West]

It's nothing to do with current loads which is the a##e end of the season. It's a response to summer impact and is timed now because we're entering a busy period for summer bookings. No point advertising when people are sat on the plane is there.

[AP1995]

there is so much negativity on this forum about LBA and other regional airports, I don't understand, LBA management has done so well this year and all we ever hear is criticisms about it all

[2Planks]

Absolutely, perhaps LBA should reply - 56 miles away but 3 hours on the M62 or 2 hours on crummy trains!

[chrismoose]

So a choice between a short trip to LBA, fly to LHR, same terminal connection when the T5 move happens then onwards compared to battling the traffic on the M62 or cramming into a commuter train that's not big enough and probably standing for 2 hours.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

2Planks : Absolutely, perhaps LBA should reply - 56 miles away but 3 hours on the M62 or 2 hours on crummy trains!


They won't do that because MAN's strapline is based on fact, whereas yours is clearly not. :=

I can see this is going to ge one of those oportunities for this thread to turn into an enthusiast's pissing contest. There's a special section for that on here and it's not here. Let's keep this thread focussed on purpose.

[North West]

Whether fact or not, I think many people would accept the M62 as frequently congested and this is a risk for MAN and an opportunity for LBA. Like I said, an interesting battle ahead. No negativity from me - its a commentary on two businesses competing for the same passenger base.

[BKS Air Transport]

I use both the M62 and the TPE trains to travel to/from the north-west on a fairly regular basis, and I speak from experience.

FACT- the M62 is congested on a daily basis. I am an experienced driver, the large amounts of HGVs on it make for a particularly demanding drive. Accidents, bad weather and other hold-ups happen frequently.

FACT- the trains between Leeds and Manchster Picc are often standing room only. When I reserve a seat, without fail somebody is already sat in it.

Not what I want on the start of an important journey. Give me a change at LHR/AMS anyday.

If First were to run some trains non-stop between Leeds and Manchester Airport, I might reconsider.

[canberra97]

Am just curious to know if a B-777 can use the airbridges at LBA?

Sean

[Channex258]

Someone at Servisair was saying it'll be on Stand 14 or failing that the remotes.

Channex258

[A300BOY]

I drove the M62 three or four times a week to Manchester Airport in the 90s when I was based there and it was a horrible drive then. I would not want to do it now if a reasonable alternative was available. I have booked Manchester to Australia in April with a stop in Munich. If the Ba flight to Heathrow had been available at the time booking Leeds-Heathrow-Oz would have been my choice to avoid the drive to Manchester.

[brian_dromey]

The M62 may be no dream, but LBA is hardly well connected. Driving to LBA from areas to the south and east of Leeds is a bit of an unpredictable nightmare, too. Even from the univeristy, MAN is a 50/50 toss-up by public transport. Even if you do drive to LBA, parking is absolutely outrageous on-site and not much better off site. Of course the cost of fuel to MAN is not negligible.

[anothertyke]

Actually 1hr 15 Leeds station-- Mcr Airport. Do agree about the congestion though . For US destinations directly served from Manchester I think Manchester wins. Where it's a choice between connecting at Heathrow, Newark or Chicago, it all depends, could be close.

[2Planks]

StoneyBridge - I find your wagging finger and the tone of your post patronising and it is such actions that start the contests you seem to want to avoid.

Whilst the 56 miles is an irrefutable fact - my slightly tongue in cheek reply to the previous poster is based on my experience which is what I use to inform my purchasing decisions. Whether it is MAN or LBA depends on a lot of factors but as LBA is the closest airport to 'chez moi' it will often come out as favourite.

[Gate 8]

MAN is a far better airport. It is also one that I avoid as much as possible simply because getting there from North Leeds is a nightmare.

You can dress it up all you like but I would explore all other avenues than use it. It is great for the residents of Manchester, Chesire and Merseyside. It is not great for the people of Yorkshire unless they are right on the M62.

I think BA recognised that fact when they started this route and contrary to popular belief pax figures are rising steadily. 4 rtn flts a day was always too many - what routes ever get that? But having generated a customer base this Winter and shown some commitment by moving it to T5 with 3 per dya I am hopeful of a good Summer for the route.

[easyflyer83]

Please don't get carried away here. LBA is convenient for Leeds & Bradford as well as some other areas of West Yorkshire. But for much of Yorkshire, such as Sheffield, Barnsley, Huddersfield, MAN is considerably more convenient and, crucially, well thought of. LBA has never really been on the folks of South Yorkshire's radar.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Couldn't let it go could you 2planks.

I travel from SK4, 2 miles from MAN, to either DSA or LBA atleast twice a week.

Except for one occassion when UK plc was snowclo, it has never, ever, taken anywhere near 3 hours to complete my journey even with the current never ending 50mph stretch.

So if anything, if LBA were to respond as you suggest, the ASA would come down on them like a tonne of bricks or, as you say, if it was meant tongue in cheek, it really was incitement to willy waving, purposely intentioned or otherwise.

[rpmac]

Just back from using LBA as it is easier to use than Manchester from Scotland via the A65, thus avoiding the M62.
Most friends I know in Scotland avoid Manchester - generally using London gateways but also Newcastle and Leeds if nothing suitable from EDI or GLA.

[LAX_LHR]

Just back from using LBA as it is easier to use than Manchester from Scotland
via the A65, thus avoiding the M62


Just used aa routeplanner and google directions (having never done the route myself), both examples came out quicker and easier for Glasgow/Edinburgh-MAN than Glasgow/Edinburgh-LBA, with a time saving of over 20-25 mins for the former. Also both 'accounted for current reported traffic levels'
Also worth noting that from Scotland, the quickest route for both Glasgow and Edinburgh to MAN, the route goes nowhere near the M62. Thus, I have no idea which route you have been using, but seems you have been going well out of your way to need the M62 from Scotland.

At the end of the day, its not always down to ease why people don't use an airport, but rather the preference of airport. If people don't want to use airport A, then they wont.

However, in MAN's case, there are 22 million people who do 'find it easier' to use, and in LBA's case there are 2.9 million who are likewise.

[rpmac]

LBA onto the A65 via Settle etc, onto the M6, M74. Pleasant route, no conjestion. Avoids motorways around Manchester.

[AP1995]

Its not about people who prefer to use MAN, the fact that MAN has so much departures then LBA and often at competitive prices, people can not afford to spend a lot of money on flights from there local airport and usually choose the cheapest, in my case this year I am flying from LPL, MAN & LBA and LBA is the closest, I much rather use LBA however there wasn't convenient flights at the times and dates I wanted, so its not about which is easiest.

[sunshine79]

I'm so bored this evening that I'm watching the webcam at LBA, and have for a couple of Wednesday and Saturdays to watch the PIA flight. I've noticed it has actually landed early on a couple of occasions like today, it landed at 1602 and it's still at the gate. LBA departures showed it still checking in at the time it was supposed to take off and the gate closed about an hour ago and it still hasn't pushed back. Why does it take so long to get this a/c turned around and depart late. I can't think when I've seen it depart on time. When would the crew go out of hours on this flight too?

[johnnychips]

Absolutely pure speculation, but has it been allocated a slot later than its advertised departure time, and this is to allow for glitches, latecomers etc?

[LBIA]

Due to the heavy snow fall earlier this evening you wouldn't believe it but the Crew bus got stuck in traffic on the M62 motorway whilst travelling from there Manchester hotel. Also the catering truck rolled up at LBA about 3 hours late.

Now just to make matters worse whilst AP-BEG was back tracking runway 14 for departure about an hour ago it went tech and has returned back to stand. So she will be definitely be breaking the noise curfew this evening. That’s if LBA allow it to depart.

[lbalad]

Why do the crew stay in a hotel in Manchester?.Do PIA operate the A310 into there?.Or are the crew trained on 777 and A310 also?.

And where are the inflight meals prepared for these flights?

[sunshine79]

Thanks for the info. Can just see it's pushing back now. Second time lucky for this flight tonight

[LBIA]

Flybe are to add a 4th daily Dash 8 service to Belfast City from Leeds for the summer 2013 schedule.

Initially the extra flight will only operate on Monday and Fridays commencing from April 5th, But from May 10th the extra flight will also operate on Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursdays

BEE735 = BHD 11:20 LBA 12:25
BEE736 = LBA 12:50 BHD 13:55

[LBIA]

Oh dear not good news as it looks like bmi regional maybe axing the 2x daily Leeds/Bradford to Brussels service as flights are no longer bookable after March 29th.

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Just checked the booking site. The flights ARE still available, so not sure where you got your info from!

[LBIA]

Yeah it looks like I may have jumped the gun as just rechecked and it’s still on sale like you say "Hotel Uniform Yankee"

Saying that I have heard recently that the loads have dropped off quite a bit since they went independent and lost the Brussels Airline codeshare. So in the long run it wouldn't surprise if they do eventually drop the route. That’s unless they can get the codeshare back and offer interlining once again

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I travel from SK4, 2 miles from MAN, to either DSA or LBA atleast twice a week."

Forgive an ignorant southerner: what is "SK4", and where is it in relation to Ringway (apart from 2 mi.)?

[POL1W]

Quote: "I travel from SK4, 2 miles from MAN, to either DSA or LBA atleast twice a week."

Forgive an ignorant southerner: what is "SK4", and where is it in relation to Ringway (apart from 2 mi.)?

I would imagine it is the first part of a postcode. SK = Stockport. As LS = Leeds BD = Bradford etc. So SK4 will be Stockport 4 area.

[737 Speedbrakes]

SK4 - try google

Postcode SK4, greater manchester, StreetFinder (http://www.streetfinder.co.uk/postcode/SK4.htm)

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Quote: "I travel from SK4, 2 miles from MAN, to either DSA or LBA atleast twice a week."

Forgive an ignorant southerner: what is "SK4", and where is it in relation to Ringway (apart from 2 mi.)?

I would imagine it is the first part of a postcode. SK = Stockport. As LS = Leeds BD = Bradford etc. So SK4 will be Stockport 4 area."

How ridiculous, if travelling from Stockport why not say "Stockport" instead of some combination of letters and numbers, at least then there is some geographical relevance to the point being made.

BTW even this ignorant southerner knows that Stockport is more than 2mi. from Ringway!

[chaps2011]

A good 4 to 5 miles

Chaps

[canberra97]

Great reply Frank regarding 'SK4'.

[pwalhx]

This really is thread drift and nothing to do with Leeds, however to be correct some parts of Stockport MBC and the Post Coded areas are extremley close to Manchester Airport (Heald Green for example).

[Bagso]

BA scrubbed 1st LHR service this am due fog, bloody frustrating if you have connections. Some MAN flights got away so not sure on what basis they cancel service.

[Teevee]

I would imagine purely on the grounds of visibility! Based purely on their relative altitudes you can't compare LBA and MAN climate wise!

[LBIA]

l think you'll find the reason behind the BA1340/1341 been cancelled was not LBA's fault. Last night all LHR airlines were requested to deliver a 20% cut in schedule for this moring due to extremely low visibility been forecasted.

[A300BOY]

Judging by the Met information ,on the web this morning, so far that decision by BAA was ill founded and not needed as visibility has remained acceptable. Making decisions like this so far ahead based on a weather forecast are likely to bite your bum.

[Bagso]

Teevee bit lost on the point you are making ?

But moving on

With only 4 flights a day cancelling just one flight is a major inconvenience , at least at Manchester if you cancelled 20% or what ever the figure you would still only have to wait a maximum of a couple of hours to next service.

As a fledgling service I just thought LBA deserved a bit more attention !

[Teevee]

Just that at 638 LBA is a 'bit' higher than most other UK airports! So Man might well have been able to get flights out, while the top of the LBA 'hill' would be shrouded in thick fog! I've been in Bramhope (from where you usually get a really good view of the LBA approach) less than 2 miles from LBA in clear weather and not been able to distinguish ANYTHING where the aiport should have been! On the other hand this doesn't seem to have been a factor in this case. Though if real weather wasn't the problem, only predicted weather, it does make you wonder what the 'other'factors were in the planning? Maybe, in the grand scheme of things, those cancellations didn't really matter much? Which would, in turn, make me wonder about (a) the profitability, and (b) the future of the route.

[flybar]

Flight was cancelled early yesterday evening based on a prediction for Heathrow this morning - nothing to do whatsoever with the height of Leeds Bradford!!

[LBIA]

Rumour has it LBA will have a second long haul service announced soon. The route should start in April 2014.

[pwalhx]

Jet2 to Sanford you mean?

[airforced]

You are a tease LBIA!

As this is a rumour network I think you ought to share your rumour with us don't you?

[LBIA]

Yep pwalhx guess you've heard the same? Rumour has it that Jet2 may have picked up 2x Boeing 767-300ER's and are looking to start Orlando Sanford routes from Leeeds, Manchester and East Midlands next summer. Wither its true or not this time is anyone's guess i suppose.

Shaheen Air have been seen around several UK airports now they have those Airbus A330's. I wonder if they might return to Leeds after there last attempt?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "SK4
Great reply Frank regarding 'SK4'."

Thank you, canberra97.

Quote: "This really is thread drift and nothing to do with Leeds, however to be correct some parts of Stockport MBC and the Post Coded areas are extremley close to Manchester Airport (Heald Green for example)."

Not really rocket science is it? If refering to "Heald Green", then say "Heald Green", then even people from out of the area would understand. It is a matter of basic geography: use proper place names not silly post code prefixes.

BTW, pwalhx, it isn't thread drift, just an attempt at clarification, as the poster was talking about accessibiity of other airports from an area near Ringway. My question was legitimate.

[Gate 8]

Teevee

BA canx 30 flights of Tuesday morning's first wave including a MAN NCL ABZ FRA BCN MAD LBA and many many others.

You are talking nonsense trying to link a single canx with the viability of the route itself.

LHR had forecast vis of 50m and the flying programme was pruned accordingly.

End of story.

[Airbanda]

Forecast viz at LHR might have turned out wrong but it was very patchy yesterday morning. Not the sort of hill fog/clag that gets LBA but stuff in pockets and moving around.

Lunchtime commuter group bike ride in London yesterday. Several stories of going from clear to thick fog over short distances. Observations from train between MK & London suggested fog pockets were widespread in Thames Valley and surrounding counties.

[2Planks]

LBIA and pwalhx - I see J2 launched the New York Xmas shopping trips this afternoon - does that count as the 2nd long haul destination?? ;)

[pwalhx]

No they are shopping trips and have been done before, I thought otherwise I had answered that question.

[anothertyke]

My impression is that of all weather types fog is the most difficult to forecast accurately. Just going back to the factors between LBA and MAN, suppose you need to go to somewhere like Denver for business where the options are from LBA via Schiphol or Heathrow or from MAN via Newark or Chicago. I think if the trip is Nov to Feb the possible weather at LBA is a factor. The question in your head is--which routeing am I least likely to get stuck somewhere? The reasoning for a trip in May might well be different.

[rpmac]

And you may also consider the possible effects of M62 fog, roadworks, etc.

[LBIA]

British Airways seem to be using the A320's instead of the A319's on the LHR-LBA shuttles. Its it because they are carrying extra pax due to all the problems on trains with and delays continuing on the East Coast Mainline?

[Airbanda]

The recent trouble on ECML (de wiring at St Neots) lasted for around 24 hours. I'd doubt either passengers or the airline could have re-mustered themselves in any number over that short period. ECML does have a general reputation for unreliabilty though.

So hopefully the bigger machine is down to a rising load factor as the service gets better established.

[Fairdealfrank]

Also hope it's because of rising loads, but could be linked to 3x/day frequencies from the end of next month instead of 4x/day?

[san diego]

The A320 appears to be a temporary replacement for the usual A319. I flew back to London on BA1345 last Sunday on the A320, the load was better than the three previous times I had used that flight, in that we had a total of 30 passengers, my lowest was 9. I don't think there is any risk of the capacity of the A319 being exceeded for some time yet, even on the busier flights

[Hangar6]

Ba Dub Lhr is down to A319 on a regular ASIs and 9 would be a decent head count !!!! Maye some of A320 are being switched to Lba given 30 on a flight , more galley space ?:)

[Flightrider]

It's more likely that BA are getting much better than they used to be at managing their business. The A320 is a heavier aircraft than the A319, and they will almost certainly have negotiated a deal at LBA where they are paying no fixed landing fee but a per-passenger charge. They will therefore lose less money sending an A319 to Dublin (where they pay weight-based landing charges and it's a longer sector) with 60 pax aboard and an A320 to Leeds with 35 pax aboard where the more expensive A320 operates the shorter sector and doesn't get charged more at LBA for landing fees?

[lbalad]

Anybody know what's the story tonight?.Airport website showed flight arrived over 3 hours late,just after 7pm.

Then departure board said "next info 23 30".Now showing as cancelled?

[BFS BHD]

Snow maybe? Runway closed for clearing maybe?

[chaps2011]

It`s still there according to webcam and is being towed away at 07.34 to a remote
stand

Chaps

[LBIA]

The PIA A310 AP-BDZ had a serious hydraulic leak just before the push back last night so its had to overnight to be fixed.

[LBIA]

Not at all surprised to hear that the planned PIA, Boeing 777 won’t be making an appearance at LBA next week. It now looks as though the A310’s will be staying around for the foreseeable future.

Anyone able to confirm this is true or heard anything about it?

[crewmeal]

Maybe PIA's abysmal engineering has something to do with. They probably can't spare the only serviceable B777's aircraft on a new routes.

[HOODED]

I hear the start date has been delayed until 1st April:hmm:

[chaps2011]

Hmmm that date says it all

Chaps

[LBIA]

BMI regional is closing its Leeds base in May and will be suspending its 2x daily Brussels service at the same time with the last flights been the BD1615/1616 on (Bank Holiday) Monday, May 6th

Also told today that PIA's Islamabad route is provisionally down to be upgraded to Boeing 777's from April 3rd pending certain operational obligations which need to be agreed so the A310's will continue for the next 3 weeks.

[anothertyke]

Any chance anyone else will have a go on Brussels? Jet2? That route must have been operating for 30 years or more.

[Mooncrest]

The Brussels route was operated from 1990 to 2001 by Sabena using, variously, the Brasilia, DHC8-3, 146/RJ85 and the occasional 737. It would be good to see their successor, Brussels Airlines back on the route.

I know many of the BMI crews and engineers based at LBA. I would like to wish them all well. :)

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I would expect Eastern Airways to take over the LBA BRU

Can the route support Eastern's often eye watering fare structure though?

[A300BOY]

If they do I hope its with a Cat 2 Jetstream J41 and not the Cat 1 Saab 2000 or it will not last long. A 100ft cloudbase all day at Leeds today led to just about all Easterns flights being cancelled. Leeds operations in the winter need aircraft with Cat 2 capability at least.

[LBIA]

Well I do hope Eastern Airways see an opportunity and snap up the soon to be axed Leeds/Bradford-Brussels route keeping the 2x daily schedule utilising either a BAe Jetstream 41 or Embrear 135. The Saab 2000 might be a bit too large to start off with.
I suppose Ryanair maybe an option if they use a Brussels Charleroi based aircraft, as the 3x Leeds based aircraft are fully utilised this summer. If Ryanair did it I’m sure the route would only operate on a 3x to 4x weekly basis.

Otherwise I fail to see anyone else been interested at the moment...

[anothertyke]

I think the high value traffic needs the early morning/ late evening pattern so the Charleroi option is not much good for that. I suppose a combination of decline of Brussels Airport/SN for interchange, and Eurostar for EU Commission and other business trips has made this route much thinner than it used to be. Wasn't it up to 4 RJ85s a day at one point?

[AirGuru]

Routes News - Monarch adds new A320 at Leeds Bradford (http://www.routes-news.com/news/item/1117-monarch-adds-new-a320-at-leeds-bradford)

First A320 with sharklets in the UK i believe.

[RM5 Fan]

Shiny new jets might be good for marketing, but how much do the Sharklets reduce the crosswind component?

[LBIA]

Not totally Unbelievable and surprised to hear the news today that PIA's promised upgrade from Airbus A310 to Boeing 777 aircraft on the 2x weekly Islamabad – Leeds/Bradford route has now in fact been further delayed until at least the start of the winter 2013/14 schedule with a new commencement date of Wednesday, October 30th..

[Channex258]

Not totally Unbelievable and surprised to hear the news today that PIA's promised upgrade from Airbus A310 to Boeing 777 aircraft on the 2x weekly Islamabad – Leeds/Bradford route has now in fact been further delayed until at least the start of the winter 2013/14 schedule with a new commencement date of Wednesday, October 30th..

Mr Khan definitely won't be pleased that's all he's been on about for the past few years!
The entire operation needs looking at I understand they're a big customer for the LBA and spend plenty of money but the unreliable aircraft constantly going tech, awful time keeping and general mismanagement at PIA itself does make you wonder.

[BKS Air Transport]

Comment in the local paper that the Isle of Man route will be operated again, though only for the TT weeks.

[MKY661]

First A320 with sharklets in the UK i believe.

Yes it is and it will be joined by a second Monarch A320 with sharklets in mid April. The base opens on Saturday :)

[LBIA]

MKY661 are you sure the base opens on Saturday?

The reason the plane was positioned in yesterday was because the base actually opens today with G-ZBAA due to operate to Munich this morning and then Tenerife this afternoon.

Got a funny feeling it may end up diverting to Manchester if the weather forecast is to believed. Expecting up to 20cm of Snow around LBA within the next 24 hours....

[runway08]

There is 2 images on Flickr of it leaving Luton for Leeds yesterday.

Monarch Airlines A320 G-ZBAA Luton (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lutonavia/8577195915)
Monarch Airlines A320 G-ZBAA Luton (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lutonavia/8577195999)

No idea how to link thumbnails sorry.

[nigel osborne]

LBIA re PIA 777s.

Looks like the 777 is cancelled for the summer according to other sites, and the PIA timetable showing up as far as Oct as A310.:eek::bored:

Nigel

[slatgrille]

I would have been on BA1346, returning to LHR right now, had my outbound BA1341 not been cancelled yesterday - one of 2 LHR LBA rotations cancelled due snow at LEEDS. BA1346 has just flown the northbound leg slowly to allow for snow clearance at LBA, and held at POL for about 40 mins, only to discover that the estimate for re-opening was to be an hour longer than that originally given to them.
Two other similar holding aircraft diverted to MAN. The shuttle was holding within 15 miles or so of MAN. Why take all the pax back to LHR? Not the first time it has happened. Had I been returning home on it, I would have found it rather inconvenient to say the least.

[LBIA]

As a result of drifiting Snow LBA is currently Snoclo until 15:00.

Snow drifting back on the runway as quick as they clear it, Reported up to 5ft deep in places. Also nearby roads Scotland Lane & Bayton Lane are closed until approximately 5pm this evening.

[MAN777]

Live Webcam Leeds Bradford International Airport | Multiflight (http://www.multiflight.com/flight-training/other-services/live-webcam/)

[onyxcrowle]

Is snow still causing issues it looked like a couple of flights holding a few minutes ago

[L1649]

The airport was closed for an hour while drifted snow was cleared.

[LBIA]

Yet another PIA, Airbus 310 (AP-BEC) has gone tech this evening at LBA.

Anyone know whats the problem this time?

[chaders]

Whatever it was they've fixed it. Just launched.

[Channex258]

I see Jet2 have a Jetairfly 737 operating the 231/232 BCN today,
is this covering short term or are we due to see more ad-hoc aircraft this summer operating for them?

Channex258

[LBIA]

Looks like Eastern Airways are dropping the Leeds - Bristol route as of April 19th.:*

[cornishsimon]

Sad to see the last of the old SZ routes go


cs

[Wellington Bomber]

But reopening a base at Leeds with J41

[2Planks]

Seems like Monarch (ZB) have cancelled another LBA programme - to MUC in the summer (although the website timetable has not been updated) - not doing a lot to generate confidence for future bookings.....

[LBIA]

Well they had been rumours recently saying that Jet2 was looking at moving its Head Office away from its current Leeds/Bradford Airport site. Well it was confirmed today that Dart Group PLC have done a deal to acquire several floors of office space in Leeds City Centre at The Mint block.

Up to 200 new jobs will be created in expanding the airline and holidays business. The group will be moving its customer contact centre, finance, IT and human resource operations to the new office, and will be home up to 700 staff when fully operational later this year. In doing so, it will allow the group to devote more space to the operational side of its Airline at its Low Fare Finder House at Leeds Bradford Airport.

200 jobs in pipeline as Jet2 moves to new office - Business News - Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/business-news/200-jobs-in-pipeline-as-jet2-moves-to-new-office-1-5570268)

[LBIA]

PIA are using a B777 on todays PIA775/776 ISB-LBA service due to A310 shortages. The bad news is that it will be diverting to MAN. Even though the airports managerment were quoted last month, "LBA was ready to accept and handle the aircraft".

[HOODED]

PIA have no intention of putting a 772 on LBA/ISB despite all their bluster about quieter aircraft being used. This is just to keep Leeds council happy when the A310s go tech and depart late. Putting the PK775/6 into MAN yesterday proves this. They will pull out when the finally retire the A310 and hope the Bradford Pakistani community will be happy to traipse across the M62 for the flights. :ugh:

[onyxcrowle]

Perhaps Jet2 should look at that route. Is Isb in range of a 757 ?

[Flying Wild]

Perhaps Jet2 should look at that route. Is Isb in range of a 757 ?

Theoretically it is in range, yes. Would Jet2 want to do it...?

[Charlie98]

Bit too long for Jet2, especially when there more for tourist destinations and seem to have there 757s sorted with no intentions (from what was said earlier in the forum) to add more.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "PIA have no intention of putting a 772 on LBA/ISB despite all their bluster about quieter aircraft being used. This is just to keep Leeds council happy when the A310s go tech and depart late. Putting the PK775/6 into MAN yesterday proves this. They will pull out when the finally retire the A310 and hope the Bradford Pakistani community will be happy to traipse across the M62 for the flights"

Indeed, at Ringway they may also other carriers to use!

[Channex258]

looks like we've got Sunwing in for the summer .....
SWG9080 YYZ-LBA C-FLZR Expected sometime before 23:00
Currently south of Iceland
Don't they usually spend the summer on the Emerald Isle at BFS or DUB?

[LBIA]

Looks like Monarch Airlines have further expansion plans for LBA. The Airlines managing director has predicted in today's Yorkshire Post that its annual passenger numbers could rise from 200,000 to 300,000 next year and that growth will be driven by a combination of new routes and more frequent flights to its current destinations.

Monarch predicts 50pc rise in passengers from airport - Business News - Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/business-news/monarch-predicts-50pc-rise-in-passengers-from-airport-1-5628863)

[OltonPete]

LBIA

An upbeat article but route choice will be critical, as the start from Leeds and some choices from other airports have proved to be troublesome.

Not sure what is going on but GNB lasted weeks but is bookable next winter, Munich I believe has finished but is back next December. However March CAA stats show 1577 pax if libhomeradar is right and 12 flights operated then it averaged 66 pax or 38%. However BHX-MUC didn't even make it until the end of April and is not coming back.

November shows just four destinations at the moment! Faro at 3 a week, ACE at 2 a week, LCA at 2 a week and TFS at 2 a week. I assume more to come as that is awful although MUC and GNB are added in December. Rome is shown in the timetable but is not bookable.

Also they chose Palma for an April start up against multiple Jet2 and FR frerquencies yet they didn't either bother at EMA or BHX, which had less loco competition and they are bigger markets. As for 58 pax I believe on PMI - LBA the other night certainly indicates a slow start but I suppose that this was just one flight and the CAA figures next month will give a better picture.

Has anyone working the flights got a better idea of how things are going?

Pete

[Artie Fufkin]

Whenever I have seen Monarch getting airborne at LBA, they seem to be rotating very early and climbing very, very well.

Either those sharklets give the A320 monster performance, or the cabin is half empty.

[pamann]

Sunwing a/c are operating the Thomson flying programme from their two new bases (being LBA & EDI) as well as the Irish operation from DUB & BFS for this summer. LBA was changed to the C reg (Sunwing) only a couple of months ago due to fleet and crew logistics due to the late arrival of the 787 to the fleet.

[BKS Air Transport]

Pete, I am not sure how you arrive at EMA having a 'bigger market'. Bigger throughput, yes, but LBA currently suffers severe leakage to MAN, something which the management up there are fully aware of.

[LBIA]

Jet2 have announced A new route from Leeds-Bradford for next summer 2014 season. Once weekly flights to Kos will commence from Tuesday, May 6th.

EXS355 = LBA 09:15 KGS 15:35
EXS356 = KGS 16:20 LBA 18:40

[CabinCrewe]

Looks like jet2 hols destinations taking priority over city break destinations

[Chitty]

does any one if jet2 have dropped there Belfast route as its not bookable from June 2013

[AP1995]

Jet2 have announced Reus from LBA for 2014, operating x2 weekly beginning in June

[ccpoles]

Hello all. Any news on any takeover of the Leeds Brussels route or is it as dead as a dodo? Thanks.

[2Planks]

Chitty - just had an e mail from Jet2, LBA-Belfast terminates on 30 Jun. Not enough folk using it was the explanation.

[LBIA]

Hasn't took Flybe long to react to the news that Jet2 are dropping the LBA-BFS service.. Flybe comes to Rescue of Belfast-Bound Travellers (http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-the-airport/news/2013-05-14-flybe-bhd)

[Type Rated B767]

Does this free up an a/c possibly for another rotation somewhere increasing frequency on a somewhat more profitable route, or to cater for the new routes such as REUS and ZANTE (providing its a B2 engined B733).

#onminimums #justaboutgetthere

[LBIA]

Does this free up an a/c possibly for another rotation somewhere increasing frequency on a somewhat more profitable route, or to cater for the new routes such as REUS and ZANTE (providing its a B2 engined B733).

Well "Type Rated B767" if there is any slack to pick up in the summer schedule it will be extra flights from jet2's Belfast Int'l base not Leeds/Bradford. As I understood that from June/july all 6x weekly Belfast-Leeds flights were due to be operated by the 2x Belfast based Boeing 737-300's not a Leeds based aircraft.

[N707ZS]

Attempt to smuggle fighting birds through North airport (From The Northern Echo) (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10430928.Attempt_to_smuggle_fighting_birds_through_North_air port/)

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Fighting birds through LBIA! See there's proof that geordies use the airport.

[VickersVicount]

Interesting to see the A310s being downgraded to high capacity economy only config minus business class. Suppose that might offer a lifeline to those marginal routes. When is the 777 starting ?

[Charlie98]

I doubt the 777 will ever go to LBA - just a stunt to please the council

[HOODED]

Its more likley LBAs first 777 will be a BA aircraft on a weather divertion in winter than a PIA aircraft. They prooved they have no intention of operating a 777 into LBA a few Saturdays ago when the PK 775/6 was a 777-200 and they flew the service to/from MAN. This despite LBA having done the work required to handle the 777s.

[BKS Air Transport]

To be fair, I think that certain ground staff need to have specific training in aspects of handling the aircraft. AFAIK this was scheduled but put on hold when PIA last changed their minds, so there would have been no suitable staff to handle a 777 at short notice. For the same reason, I doubt they could take a 777 on diversion. I would be happy to be corrected on this.

On another note, I noticed up at the airport the other day that the SOU flight also had an AF flight number. How long has this been the case?

[LAX_LHR]

Its more likley LBAs first 777 will be a BA aircraft on a weather divertion
in winter


LBA is not an authorised diversion point for any of the BA longhaul fleet.

[adfly]

Its been that way for quite a while now, Flybe also codeshare on the GLA, BHD, JER and GCI-SOU as well as their numerous French routes from there.

[Bagso]

Does anybody have any idea how the BA service is doing.

[Charlie98]

Yeah NCL get alot of BAs trans Atlantic diversions

[backtrack_32]

MAN is BA's number one diversion station. But in recent times, you will see that LGW and STN will get more diverts than MAN. The reason for this is that I can only think it is easier to get the passengers as close to London as possible!

[LBIA]

Does anybody have any idea how the BA service is doing.

Listed below are the monthly passenger stats so far for the LBA-LHR service...

DEC 12 = 5,500
JAN 13 = 7,763
FEB 13 = 7,598
MAR 13 = 9,996
APR 13 = 9,726

Total = 40,583

[HOODED]

If I've got my sums right that's an average of 49 pax per flight in April, assuming all flights operated so still some way to go before BA consider keeping their "slot warmer" going after the new Long Haul aircraft arrive. Heading in a healthy direction though! :hmm:

[Gate 8]

Yr a bit out there....

172 sectors in April so 54 / sector on average but I agree with the rest of your post!

The biggest drag on the 'average' is the last southbound which is always quiet.

If if nightstopped and there was thus a 7am southbound we all know the figures wld leap somewhat but its chicken and egg. BA won't nightstop till they see a solid market and I doubt the current numbers are providing that.

It's still doing OK for all that but it does need to do better for sure.

[Heathrow Harry]

An average of 54 passengers per sector tells me that as soon as they need more slots for their 380's or 787's at LHR you can bet that Leeds will feel the pain - then after that NCL

Medium term I can see BA flying to ABZ, EDI & GLA only from LHR

[Gate 8]

Agreed apart from the NCL bit.

NCL gets remarkable loads as do EDI & GLA.

MAN loads are erratic. A lot of people sure but with 11 rotations a day there is plenty of quiet ones amongst them.

Re LBA What is most encouraging is the very high percentage of transfer traffic it generates but there simply aren't enough bums on seats at present.

The operation is proving very reliable now it's in T5 and whilst the schedule is far from perfect I still think it is ok. It's really simple with BA - slots are the scarcest commodity and must be well utilised. The route needs more people backing it than it currently has.

[LAX_LHR]

OT but as posted here, will answer here:

MAN loads are erratic. A lot of people sure but with 11 rotations a day there is plenty of quiet ones amongst them.

Erratic? Plenty of quiet ones? Huh? Apart for the last 2 southbounds, and an early afternoon northbound, vast majority of flights leave with over 100 on them, which, with a minimum of 132 seats on the A319, hardly 'quiet' or 'erratic' or any cause for concern. Staff travel is a bloomin nightmare on MAN-LHR-MAN, always someone on waitlist whereas most other domestics are a straight on scenario.
What also helps MAN is the large number of prem and GGL card holders.

Lastly, WW has said MAN will only ever be cut if HS2 shows it can take over the role of the air route, given HS2 is 20+ years away, MAN is quite safe.


Re LBA What is most encouraging is the very high percentage of transfer
traffic it generates but there simply aren't enough bums on seats at present.


But, bums on seats is the issue and why LBA is being monitored, not connections. 54 seats out of 132 is still less than half full, regardless of how many are connecting.

[Gate 8]

I agree re bums on seats and I agree that it isn't doing well enough. All I said was that at least of the, insufficient, pax numbers LBA is generating the majority are heading off further afield which must at least give the route some value to BA.

If it were getting 54 point to point only pax at £60 a pop I suspect its days wld be even more numbered.

I also note a nice few Gold and Silvers on most flights which also surprises me given that BA haven't been flying to Leeds for long.

We will have to disagree on MAN vis a vis hardest domestic to get on on standby. "Most other domestics are straight on normally".... Really? EDI? GLA?

If I were choosing to commute from somewhere purely down to loads I would go live in MAN before any of the other domestic stations right now. Except LBA obviously!

[LAX_LHR]

We will have to disagree on MAN vis a vis hardest domestic to get on on standby.
"Most other domestics are straight on normally".... Really? EDI? GLA?

GLA/EDI are not too bad to get on, B767 and majority of A320 means a few seats to go round. Never had an issue getting on, so much so boarding pass is printed without having to sit in the 'holding pen' at T5.

As for MAN, I didn't say it was the hardest to get on, that crown is taken by NCL, but I have been bumped a few times now, and then some other times having to jump-seat it (Not that Im bothered with 30 minutes flying time)

If I were choosing to commute from somewhere purely down to loads I would go live in MAN before any of the other domestic stations right now. Except LBA obviously

Well, that's your choice, but doesn't alter my experience in any way, or the staff travel wait list I see on an (almost) daily basis speaks for itself. Any southbound from MAN up until 11am and then northbound between 9am-11am, then 3pm-5pm, I wouldn't fancy my chances.

But, anyway, this is the Leeds thread so back onto topic.

[682ft AMSL]

i've flown 6 sectors on LBA-LHR and the typical load has been between 85 to 100. This is usually on the first southbound or last northbound. I did one sector on the final southbound and there was about 30 on board. That was in the middle of Jan, to be fair.

I know they are making a concerted effort to attract interlining to the US which is where the connections work best. Lot's of work going on with the travel trade to promote the US links and LBA took 13 agents out to Chicago last month. The flights are quick, the onboard service is nice enough, T5 is a great facility, the T5 - T5 connections are very simple and overall it's a much more pleasant experience than the M62 - especially when you're heading home.

Challenge is that only 2 of the southbound flights actually connect to anything, with the last flight of the day being a glorified positioner. Because most of the demand is generated at the Leeds end, it ends up with a mismatch. With only 2 viable southbound flights, you don't build the passenger volume to take advantage of 3 viable flights heading North. The first flight North should do much better, connecting as it does to the early morning inbound wave in LHR, but the passengers aren't there because many of the outbound connections from Yorkshire aren't anyway near attractive enough. T5 is nice, but a 5 - 7 hour layover is a big ask and is unattractive to the business market and anyone with a young family.

Despite all this, it's already not a million miles away from matching KLM volumes on LBA-AMS and they have been going at it about 25 years as opposed to 6 months. The evidence so far is that the local market will support flights with attractive connections and will choose other options if the timings don't work. It will be up to BA to decide if they want to make the schedule attractive enough to fix this.

[Skipness One Echo]

There's not much point in buying a load of new heavies if you don't have enough feed to fill them now is there? There's no way of getting LBA into profit without an early LBA-LHR, no way at all. I think that's clear, point to point high yield traffic would need it, the route died on it's backside when BMI switched LHR-LBA/MME to being operated from the London end. However it's not as if BA are exactly expanding the long haul fleet massively either. Has LHR-ICN been a spectacular success? Has anyone yet booked a single seat on LHR-Chengdu? Are BA returning to KUL? It's a very competitve environment out there.

[Flightrider]

Interesting debate. bmi pulled off LBA-LHR despite the fact that yields were more than double those on MAN-LHR (LBA was into three figures, MAN was rather well below that) and although they were operating the E145 at the time on LBA-LHR with which you could never make a profit given fixed LHR charges, they chose to concentrate on MAN-LHR where the overall revenue potential was not dissimilar.

And in terms of the slot sitting debate, there are quite a few duplicated frequencies on routes into LHR in the BA portfolio which I'd think were more at risk. If departures from LHR to MAN at 2005, 2025 and 2140 when only one aircraft is really needed to nightstop MAN isn't a prime example of slot sitting, I don't know what is. At least by operating LBA-LHR, BA are generating some new revenue at the expense of KLM connections over AMS instead of operating multiple frequencies very close together on MAN-LHR which simply spread the existing revenue over three flights where one would suffice

[BKS Air Transport]

I think BA will be hoping that they offer a better proposition to some of those premium eastbound LH customers who have been heading over the Pennines and into the hands of the middle eastern carriers.

Somebody is filling up those A380s, and they're not all from Manchester...

[AP1995]

BA's new long haul aircraft are also replacing old ones so there will not be loads of new routes.. if LBA was a slot sitter, why would BA invest time and money on a new destination instead of adding extra frequencies to MAN & NCL? I really hope the route does well and I have seen the loads for the 'little red' from MAN and they are similar to BA's when they just started LBA.

[Gate 8]

Correct AP1995

The majority are like for like replacement of an ageing fleet. Actual Long Haul expansion isn't actually that many hulls over next few years. Given that a LH jet requires one slot pair a day there isn't going to be the massacre of SH many are predicting.

RTM started the same day as LBA and has interesting stats also. Plenty of v quiet sectors but plenty >100 also but interestingly its far more point to point. LBA is very high in terms of transfer which as I said has to give it some viability. They can't just fill the LH routes entirely from the SE.

The schedule is a problem but then a nightstop, despite being the BA model, is an expensive commitment.

The 'early' south and late 'north' are doing fine. The late south is really a positioner so doesn't concern me with its very quiet loads - MAN is an über-established route and has similar loads on its 2100-2200 southbounds. The problem is the middle rotation and most importantly the early North.

The T5 move shifted this service from 0700 ex T1 (zero connectivity) to 0755 ex T5 (lots of connectivity from all the LH Arrs Pre 0655) and I thought it would do really well and that hasn't materialised. It regularly has <50 on board. I am mystified by this.

[Gate 8]

It's actually quite fascinating seeing it grow and seeing how it pans out.

Interestingly compared with KLM. Schipol has unlimited slots and runways and so KLM can run 80-90 seat a/c happily as they do to LBA, HUY etc

If BA had such a luxury LBA would be doing very well load-wise already. The paucity of slots at LHR renders such a machine unworkable (as with the BMI ER145's alluded to above). If you want a service to LHR you have to be able to fill a 319 a few times a day or you're toast - it really is as simple as that.

Still think LBA could make a final push with numbers to convince BA to nightstop the last service, provide a proper early south, remove the empty late positioner and cement the routes future but it's not going to happen on today's figures. Have to hope they keep building.

I'm certainly thrilled every day to see so many people heading south on the 1341 starting their journeys from our gateway airport to all corners of the globe with the national carrier. I don't think I'm alone to see it as a good thing for Yorkshire.

[682ft AMSL]

The T5 move shifted this service from 0700 ex T1 (zero connectivity) to 0755 ex T5 (lots of connectivity from all the LH Arrs Pre 0655) and I thought it would do really well and that hasn't materialised. It regularly has <50 on board. I am mystified by this.

I think there are usually about 25 arrivals into T5 before 06:55. Very few of the arrivals into the other terminals give a realistic chance of getting over especially if BA won't check the bags through.

25 isn't a huge wave really. 3 of these (Nairobi, Doha and Muscat) have got no connection opportunity outbound form LBA. Another 3 (Sydney, Buenos Aires and Moscow) have got a minimum layover > 5 hours connecting outbound form LBA.

At Schipol, there are about 50 arrivals that connect onto the first departure from LBA - and they're filling an aircraft half the size.

[Gate 8]

Thanks for that analysis. Makes a lot of sense.

What we need is a 0730 LBA-LHR and a 0900 LHR-LBA.

That needs a nightstopping a/c.....

[HOODED]

See the PIA was very late in yesterday, again! More pressure for a 777 then to curb the late departure of the noisy old A310, or more likely a pull out!:*

[Skipness One Echo]

Isn't the more powerful B777 somewhat noisier than the A310? Old /= noisy unless they grow louder with age.

[VickersVicount]

My experience is that anA310 is louder on takeoff than a 777
Interesting to see the first downgraded all Y refitted A310 on the LBA route. Doesnt bode well for a dramatic increase in capacity and maintanence of a J cabin

[HOODED]

The 777 is quieter than the A310. PIA have been saying they will put the 777 on to keep the council happy as they keep breaking the planning rules for the runway extension from many years ago which put a noise limit on night flights. The A310 is regularly late meaning it departs after the curfew and they have to get permission for the departure each time.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the loads now the A310s are going all Y as from what I understand it was the business seats they were struggling to sell.

[Jack1985]

Just a question relating to overnighting aircraft at Leeds are there enough stands? I understand there are 3 Ryanair aircraft, 1 Thomson and over 10 Jet2 aircraft? There doesn't seem to be enough stands?

[ILS32]

Jack1985
There are 24 stands if I remember correctly.They are just about full overnight.There will have to be more concrete poured if more aircraft are night stopping.

[LBIA]

LBA currently has 20x parking stands on its apron. Stands 2 and 4 no longer exist and 20 and 23 are class B stands that when in use block stands 19, 21 and 22, 24 respectively. So yes its going to be quite full with 22x aircraft either been based or over nighting this summer season.

Eastern Airways = 1x JS41
KLM City Hopper = 1x FK70
Thomson = 1x B738
Monarch = 2x A320
Ryanair = 3x B738
Jet2.com = 9x B733, 1x B738 & 4x B752

I understand that 3x aircraft are able to be parked overnight at holding points N2, N3 and N4. There are procedures in place to turn the bits of taxiway between N3 and N4 into an extended apron. This means that no escorting is required out to the aircraft.

[LBIA]

CAA have today published the Provisional May 2013 passenger stats.

LBA handled 329,127 passengers in May 2013 which is a massive increase of 19.6% on the same month last year (May 2012)

The even better news is that the magic 3 million passenger barrier has finally been broken. As the year rolling 12-month total figure now stands at an impressive 3,021,652....

[LBIA]

Jet2 have just announced that it will restart flights to Budapest from Leeds/Bradford next summer 2014. Jet2 dropped the Leeds - Budapest route last November after operating it for only 6 months, I wonder what's made them change there mind?

Anyway it looks as though the service will once again be operated 2x weekly on Thursday and Sundays with flights commencing from April 3rd.

[2Planks]

Just a thought LBIA - worries about political instability in Turkey/Egypt??

[LBIA]

Better late than never. The CAA june 2013 stats have just been published for LBA.

LBA handled 387,217 passengers in June, up 12.9% on June 12. Also the Atms were up 4.5%

Meanwhile the year Rolling 12-month total now stands at 3,065,971, up 4.6% on a year ago.

Another set of good results once again. Whats more it looks as though LBA handled more passengers than Liverpool did in June 2013....

[HR200]

LBA is not an authorised diversion point for any of the BA longhaul fleet.


At LBA we can accept up to B767 primarily from within Europe but can accept intercontinental if necessary.

[LAX_LHR]

At LBA we can accept up to B767 primarily from within Europe but can accept
intercontinental if necessary


I was not questioning what LBA can accept, as it can take an A330 or B777 is needed, however, it has not been cleared by BA for widebody diverts as of this time.