LEEDS 5

[BKS Air Transport]

All the talk about roads to the airport being unable to cope with increased traffic is a smokescreen. Those of us who live round here know that the A65 has been notorious for years, but only in the morning peak with traffic going towards Leeds, and in the evening peak with traffic going the other way. The situation has been made worse in recent times with the large scale building of houses around Guiseley and Menston, and no thought being given as to how the increased commuter traffic can be coped with. Traffic surveys have shown that the airport's contribution to traffic levels has been insignificant.

[Keyvon]

Jet2 has discotinued its LBA-Albert (Picardy, France) flights even before commencing.

LS was supposed to be the only airline serving this French destination with a scheduled service.

Do somebody know the reason behind this cancellation ? Could be due to low booking ?

[Runway 32/14]

News to me about jet2 cutting this service before it's even started......all i have information on is listed below:

Jet2 has announced that it will launch a unique new route from Leeds Bradford Airport (http://www.lbia.co.uk/) to Albert-Picardie, to capitalise on the massive rise in battlefield breaks to World War I sites in Northern France. On sale from today, the airline will operate a twice-weekly service on Mondays and Fridays between April and June next year. Fares start from £60.99 one way inclusive of taxes.
The budget airline will be the first to offer scheduled flights from the UK to Albert in the Picardie region of France, most famous for the Battle of the Somme, and home to the city of Amiens with fantastic links to the city of Lille. Interest in visits to war graves and battlefield sites has risen sharply in recent years fuelled by notable anniversaries, such as this month’s 90th anniversary of the end of World War I. Growth in websites and TV programmes tracing family trees has also sparked interest in the Great Wars among those keen to follow in the footsteps of relatives...

[commit aviation]

No longer visible on the booking & timetable pages.....

Looks like the level of demand is comparable to Lille (i.e. not that great!)

Shame but I guess in the current economic climate it's better to knock it on the head now rather than lose your shirt on it.

[Runway 32/14]

Its still listed on the LBA website for summer 2009

[commit aviation]

Highly likely they haven't told the airport yet!
They may have pulled the plug late Friday & oddly enough airlines aren't so keen to shout about closing routes as they are about announcing new ones! I am sure things will be updated early this week.

[Flying Yorkshireman]

Flying Yorkshireman, Have you got any pics which show the terminal building, airside and landside so we can see how much it has changed?

Thanks in advance!


Backtrack 32 - Initially I thought that I wouldn't have the sort of pictures you want. However, after some digging I have found a few. I also found some of the construction of the tunnel and runway extension work. I hope that these are of interest.

I have put them on the link below.


LBA Infrastructure :: Fotopic.Net (http://leedsbradfordnostalgia.fotopic.net/c1687417.html)

In addition, I have added quite a few more to my original web site, which now has over 100 pictures.

LBA Nostalgia :: Fotopic.Net (http://leedsbradfordnostalgia.fotopic.net/c1683401.html)

Regards,

FY

[roverman]

Can't see Albert listed anywhere on Jet2.com.

Adieu d'Albert. The Albert Memorial. Hardly a surprise really, LBA-Albert must count as one of the industry's 'thinnest' imaginable routes.

[682ft AMSL]

It was only ever intended to operate from 20th April to mid July which, as anyone with kids will know, is the duration of summer term and typically the period in which educational trips abroad are scheduled. Given the nature of the destination, it is highly likely that this was essentially set up as a charter to deal with these trips, with any excess capacity being sold as a scheduled route. On the basis that Jet2 usually adopt a conservative approach to the LBA market, I doubt they ever intended for this to operate on a stand-alone scheduled basis. If so, then I suspect too many of the intended educational trips have fallen through and Jet2 have had too many seats to sell themselves and they've decided to pull the plug.

[Runway 32/14]

Once again thank you so much for sharing those images and memories....

I found them fascinating and intriguing....:ok:

[Runway 32/14]

In 2007 the Civil Aviation Authority recorded that 3.7 million passenger journeys had taken place at Manchester, Liverpool, East Midlands and London airports by people who started or ended their journey in West & North Yorkshire. On average that’s 10,000 trips every day, 365 days a year travelling on the local road network to get to the M62 and M1 to get to other airports. It is the same number of passengers as currently handled by Leeds Bradford and Doncaster Airport combined. It means over 6 out 10 passenger trips that start or end in West/North Yorkshire don’t use Leeds Bradford. Whether we like it or not, demand for air travel to/from the region is high and will continue to be so whether Leeds Bradford expands its terminal or not. Any demand that can’t be met locally will simply continue to displace to other airports, creating traffic on the roads, contributing to the expansion of other airports and the growth of other regional economies. Locals who can’t fly from Leeds Bradford are not choosing to sit at home or take a local “green” holiday; they are getting in cars, taxis or mini-busses to undertake journeys of between 120 to 500 miles to get the flight they want. This will always be the same unless there is a consistently applied national policy from central government that restricts air travel across ALL UK airports. Given this is not likely to happen, it is only right to consider how we can achieve a better balance of how much of the demand that already exists across Leeds Bradford’s hinterland is met by Leeds Bradford Airport itself.

Also worth remembering is that the council sold the airport to the current owners because they wanted a developer to come in and develop the airport. Having sold the airport as a development opportunity and pocketed the money to fund their dream of a city centre arena, I’m struggling to see how the council can legitimately keep this cash but stop any development of the airport.

[Strelnikov]

RW32/14.

You've made your point well though I would observe that Leeds is not actually blocking the planning application. The delay is procedural, effectively seeking higher authority on an important planning application.

I'm not on the inside on this one but I would hope that any good LA will also be doing their level best to extract as much as possible out of the private promoter to get the best deal for the council taxpayer.

Lets sit tight and be patient - like it or not developing airports is a very sensitive issue and it has to be handled carefully.

MDB

[roverman]

The whole issue is a lot more complicated. We, in the UK, have chosen to adopt a market-led air transport system rather than one which works in accordance with any strategic, integrated transport plan. LBA is not alone in witnessing the effects of this. How many passengers per year drive from their homes close to Manchester Airport to take flights from Liverpool, Stansted, Gatwick, or EMA because it is cheaper? Market-led solutions to the provision of any public service have similar outcomes - short-term consumer value and choice, medium term chaos, long-term damage.

[Andy_S]

In 2007 the Civil Aviation Authority recorded that 3.7 million passenger journeys had taken place at Manchester, Liverpool, East Midlands and London airports by people who started or ended their journey in West & North Yorkshire. On average that’s 10,000 trips every day, 365 days a year travelling on the local road network to get to the M62 and M1 to get to other airports.

Not everyone, of course, will have taken a car or taxi. And you're also assuming that the 3.7 million are travelling singly, rather than in groups.

It's also not clear how that 3.7 mill splits between the airports you named. I'll bet the lions share is London and Manchester though.

I realise that this isn't what you want to hear, but not everyone living in Yorkshire can be catered for by LBA. That's not just to do with runway length, weather, topography or ground access, but is also related to demand for various onward destinations. The fact is that London, and to a lesser extent Manchester, will always be able to offer a wider range of destinations than LBA, so some of the local population are going to have to travel beyond the LBA catchment area to find flights to destinations for which there is not sufficient demand in Yorkshire alone.

As Roverman says, it's a market driven business.

[backtrack_32]

Thanks a lot Flying Yorksman, Brilliant site and pics!

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Quote
I realise that this isn't what you want to hear, but not everyone living in Yorkshire can be catered for by LBA. That's not just to do with runway length, weather, topography or ground access, but is also related to demand for various onward destinations. The fact is that London, and to a lesser extent Manchester, will always be able to offer a wider range of destinations than LBA, so some of the local population are going to have to travel beyond the LBA catchment area to find flights to destinations for which there is not sufficient demand in Yorkshire alone.

Reply
90% of the population of W & S Yorkshire are automatically programmed robots into travelling over to MAN in their big 4x4's /People carriers etc!!

As a 'Pressing priority' LBIA needs to Urgently educate the people of Yorkshire that it is uneccassary to drive an hour to MAN just to save 10.00 each or whatever little money (If any)they save?

It has never made sense to me??

But educating the people of Britain, Is like educating pork!!

Most people are simply 'Brain dead' when it comes to Airports and how they work & function etc, Or they have no 'interest' in it whatsoever, Good for them.

As they say on a daily basis - 'It is just like sitting on a bus' yeah right!!

Very similar Lol!!

(Stopping the people of Yorkshire travelling to MAN Airport is like stopping dogs peeing in a park)Lol!!

They are already programmed into doing it, So really they will not change will they?

(If people knew as much about Air Travel than their precious mobile phones then the Industry would blossom)Lol!!

[Shiver me timbers!]

Excuse my ignorance but why don't wide-body aircraft land at Leeds anymore given that they used to?

Is it legislation i.e. noise, prices, commercial reasons i.e. not enough bums on seats, competition i.e. Manchester?

:hmm:

[pug]

If im not mistaken, the PIA A310's are wide bodies and operate 3xweekly.

[Shiver me timbers!]

Sorry should have been more specific - B747s.

[BigT2207]

Just to follow up on this story

Quote from the BBC website "Protesters ate cucumber sandwiches and gingerbread aeroplanes"

Now as Cucumbers are not in season yet in this Country do these so called green protesters realise that the cucumbers they are eating where flown into the UK or do they think they came on a slow boat from China. Just imagine how much C02 was produced so that they could have Cucumber sandwiches.

IDIOTS

[harrogate]

Cucumbers are grown year-round in UK greenhouses.

[BigT2207]

Which is where we get Greenhouse gasses from :)

[pug]

I wonder how many green protesters have a 'quiet' protest when there are plans for a new retail park on the outskirts of a town.

Im pretty sure that the proposed new terminal at LBA would not produce as much traffic as a new ASDA.

It would be interesting to hear their views on job prospects without aviation aswell, considering many of those (at LBA) were, i am told, students, and not from Leeds origionaly? Im sure not everyone wants to live in a tent growing their own rhubarb.

Simply, to withdraw aviation and easy access to the world would isolate Britain. This in turn could cast us out of the Global market.... Unless there is a worldwide restriction on airlines we will fall back much further than we are even now.

[Runway 32/14]

Yes, an increasing amount of protesters are students!!! obviously they have nothing better to do than to become some kind of activist...showing us the wrongs to our ways.....Also many of these "Green people" are also from friends of the earth...who spend hours and hours driving up and down the motorway network protesting about increased CO2 levels, surely these CO2 levels would drop if the "Greens" stayed at home!!!! they seem to go from one airport to another voicing reasons why airports should not expand.....If the road networks had not expanded and made travelling easier...would these protesters still be out in force to complain about airport expansion....if the roads were not in place...surely it would be too much trouble and hard work for these people to "go out and complain"




If you would like to write to "Leeds City Council" To offer your support for Growth of LBIA...the address you need is below:


Mr T. Poupard
Development Department
The Leeds Planning Office
2 Rossington Street
Leeds
LS2 8HD

Planning ref: 08/06944

Or Email: [email protected] ([email protected])

[pug]

surely these CO2 levels would drop if the "Greens" stayed at home

Levels would go down if they shut their mouths too :D

Seriously, i can see where they are coming from and agree that we must look for alternative/reusable energy but restricting airport growth and therefore making it even harder for the economy is not the way to go. I think people tend to forget that Britain is not a world influence any more, any attempt to set a standard would go largely ignored.

In the case of LBA, i hope it gets this much needed expansion, it is the only airport in the Yorkshire and Humber capable of providing a diverse network of routes. Its location is not the best but thats the way it will stay. They should make the very best of a less than ideal situation. A rail link to the station would help with connectivity.

[Runway 32/14]

Quote:
Levels would go down if they shut their mouths too :D

A point i had not concidered.......Nice one!!!:ok:

[Runway 32/14]

Leeds Bradford International Airport
8.35 The core catchment area of Leeds Bradford International Airport encompasses the most densely populated parts of West Yorkshire, although it also draws passengers from further afield, particularly North Yorkshire. The addition of new 'no-frills' international services to the airport's existing full scheduled and charter network has brought rapid growth in 2002-2003. The airport will handle around 2mppa in 2003 and is forecast to grow to around 7mppa by 2030.
8.36 Additional terminal capacity would be required to accommodate this level of growth. A runway extension of some 300 metres may also be desirable in the future to facilitate medium and long-haul operations, and to allow a wider range of aircraft to operate non-stop services with full payloads to an extended range of destinations.
8.37 This level of growth could lead to a small increase in the number of people affected by noise, and every effort should be made to mitigate and minimise these impacts. Improvements to both public transport and road access to the airport may also be required in the medium term as passenger volumes continue to grow.
8.38 Subject to these points, we would support the further development of the airport as set out above, and we invite the local planning authority to safeguard for the runway extension should the airport operators bring forward such proposals through their airport master plan.

[Runway 32/14]

LBIAExpansion (http://lbiaexpansion.tripod.com/index.html)

[commit aviation]

16th busiest airport in Europe??????? :confused:
16th busiest in UK I would have thought!

[Runway 32/14]

Quote:
16th busiest airport in Europe??????? http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif
16th busiest in UK I would have thought!

You are correct..it was ment to say the 16th busiest in Britain!!!

[johnnychips]

In the case of LBA, i hope it gets this much needed expansion, it is the only airport in the Yorkshire and Humber capable of providing a diverse network of routes.

Just a pedantic point, pug, DSA is more capable than LBA in that respect. LBA's location is its great advantage.

[Runway 32/14]

DSA is a brilliant airport...It is shamefully under used and it doesnt help when the Authorities refuse to allow extra cargo handling and night flights....

All this mumbo-jumbo about aircraft noise....the police helicopter is the worst offender, does anyone ever complain about that, hovering over your house at 3 in the morning!!!!!

[Leezyjet]

Those pics are awsome - keep 'em coming.

I've probably stood near you loads of times over the years taking pics myself, although I only had a crappy point and shoot camera with a 110 film !!!. I used to live up there on weekends (and after school) as a kid, cycling up with my packed lunch and spending the whole day watching planes.

Some of those pics should be on Airliners.net or Jetphotos.net if they aren't already - they are real classics.

Don't suppose you have a pic of the mural on the wall of the old cafe do you ?. Was such a shame they got rid of that.

:)

[Runway 32/14]

The protestor interviewed on BBC television over LBA expansion, was this block.....Guy Mitchell, a second year Politics and Southeast Asian Studies student, was one of the Leeds Students charged for the Stansted protest and is a member of ‘Plane Stupid.’ He defended Leila Deen’s custard attack on Mandelson:

“Mandelson is an unelected member of the cabinet who has bullied members of parliament into putting the interests of BAA above the climate and people. There is nothing more apt than to cover him in than green slime.”

He added: “The lunacy of airport expansion in the face of climate change deserves protest like this.”

Who voted him, to dictate to us about climate change....it is one of the facts of life, nothing more....would be possible to fuel aircraft on Hydrogen Fuel Cells!!!!!!!! me think not!!!!!!!

[Flying Yorkshireman]

Leezyjet,

Don't suppose you have a pic of the mural on the wall of the old cafe do you ?. Was such a shame they got rid of that.


Unfortunately, no. I always had the lense pointing in the opposite direction! Many thanks for the comments about the photographs. I have recently added some more to both the Nostalgia and Infrastructure sites. I still have quite a number I could add to the main site if there is sufficient interest, but as I have stated before, the best are probably already on the site.

I really enjoyed taking the pictures all those years ago and I am very pleased that they have been of interest to many of you after so many years in the loft.

My biggest regret? Taking an analogue camcorder instead of my Pentax ME Super and 80-200 mm lense to record the happenings on the Euro 96 day on 15th June 1996, when Spain played France at Elland Road. It was also a British Airways Concorde weekend and the weather was superb. I seem to recall seeing a Corsair 747-200, a Corsair 747SP, an AOM DC-10 plus many 737s, 727s, Airbuses, Fokker 100s, 1-11s and others that day.

Thanks again.

Regards,

FY

[Runway 32/14]

Quote:
My biggest regret? Taking an analogue camcorder instead of my Pentax ME Super and 80-200 mm lense.


Would it not be possible to upload any video you have to you tube...

[Flying Yorkshireman]

Runway 32/14,


Quote:
My biggest regret? Taking an analogue camcorder instead of my Pentax ME Super and 80-200 mm lense.


Would it not be possible to upload any video you have to you tube...


Unfortunately, I have never transferred anything from my camcorder to my PC, neither have I uploaded anything to You Tube. However, with some tweaks to my Win TV program and £1.68 spent at Maplins on a plug adaptor, I have managed to get some clips onto You Tube after all.

The problem is that the maximum upload size is 1 Gb, which doesn't give many seconds of footage, so I have put a few highlights on the links below. I hope that they are of interest, although Stability Control hadn't been invented in 1996 and I didn't use a tripod! I have also added a Concorde take-off from 14.

I will keep adding a few more photographs to the web sites and several more have gone on in the last few days.

Regards,

FY

YouTube - Euro 96 AOM DC 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzu6gnrrlF0)

YouTube - Corsair Boeing 747SP landing at Leeds/Bradford International Airport. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rMjvtzJnR4)

YouTube - Euro 96 Day at Leeds/Bradford Airport. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZXB1pANahg)

YouTube - Concorde 14 take off at Leeds/Bradford Airport (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXRL-Si5Ug)

[Runway 32/14]

What can i say....those video's you have posted are very impressive....i was amazed at the footage...i have also subscribed to your channel!!!

I bet you have some fun nights in going through your tapes and watching these on a large screen with the volume up....Fantastic footage..

I just wanted to say Thank You Richard for sharing them with us....:ok:

More please Richard, We Want More............:D

[Leezyjet]

"We want more, We want more, We want more"

That one of Concorde with the late landing on 32 is amazing. I've heard stories about that, but now I've actually seen it, that was very close !!.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[brittania0580]

Hi, Is anybody able to say when the Leeds council meets again to address the Terminal Extension at Leeds/Bradford Airport, as i understand the Chief Planning Officer was to give hopefully the approval we all wait for.
I understand that the Airport Authorities were wanting to start the Terminal Extension in a few months..

[682ft AMSL]

How to land Concorde at LBA.

YouTube - Concorde (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucl4IjkQsjI)

Crew on this one obviously working to a landing distance on 14 of about 2100m. If they ever get round to flatening the glideslope on 14, approaches like this might be more commonplace.

[runway west]

Bloody hell, that is one early touchdown!! Fantastic!! Thankyou for posting.

[lbalad]

Had to laugh at the above video.Anyone else notice the person walking their dog,carried on walking like Concorde lands at LBIA everyday!.

[MrSoft]

Keep them coming Richard :ok: ps. Shame no-one could have filmed the Ryanair GA late on Thursday night. It was quite a ride in there!

[PPRuNe Pop]

Folks. Please stop the practice of using this thread to post pics that do not relate to LBA.

Those that have, and there may be one or two that DO relate to LBA because it is too time consuming to take them out, have been moved to the Spotters forum.

AA&R Mods

[Strelnikov]

Unless I have missed something PPRuNe Pop (which is a possibility - I can be a fool and perhaps you have deleted some posts that were not apt) I have not observed any images on this thread that don't relate to LBA.

I have observed many marvellous links from FlyingYorkshireman that all appear to have enjoyed yet the mods seem to have pulled the posts that seems a tad harsh to me.

Perhaps they do belong under spotters corner but gentle touch eh?

Here is my humble contrib.

S

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v168/204/6/679862622/n679862622_538804_7433.jpg

[Runway 32/14]

Quote:

I have not observed any images on this thread that don't relate to LBA.

Very well said Strelnikov!!! i agree, i havent seen a single thread or image posted on this page that had nothing to do with LBA....All the threads on this page are relevant, Maybe the Mod was just having a bad day!!!!:ugh:

[PPRuNe Pop]

No, the mod was not having a bad day!

I repeat. We have a forum for spotters but it is NOT this one.

Just so that there is no future misunderstanding. This forum is for news on AIRPORTS, AIRLINES and ROUTES. It is not a spotters paradise for showing off, albeit, good pictures, except an occasional one that absolutely fits a specific and topical story.

Lately, this forum is has lost its way and this post is to remind you where the right way is.

Let's be clear. No-one is trying to stop you posting pictures. Just do it in the right forum please.

AA&R Mods

[Runway 32/14]

Leeds Bradford transatlantic flights ‘next year’

08.05.09
Leeds Bradford Airport will have a direct scheduled transatlantic service by the end of next year, its commercial director told TTG. Tony Hallwood said the airport was talking to one North American airline and one UK carrier about operating a regular Toronto service starting next year. He said the airport was also in talks with US airlines about operating a New York service.
Jet2 ran a number of one-off Christmas shopping flights to New York last year, but Mr Hallwood told the trade publication that the airport could support a scheduled operation. He said: ‘We have a large catchment area and our aim is to stop the leakage of traffic across the Pennines to Manchester. We have 2.8 million passengers now and we are confident it will be five million by 2012.’
He said that the airport is also targeting short-haul expansion to Germany, Italy, Spain, France and Scandinavia, and the airport was talking to ‘a number’ of no-frills airlines about Frankfurt, Hamburg and Copenhagen services.:ok:

[STEPHEN WHYVILL]

Great news for Leeds/Bradford Airport, for both Business and the Leisure Industry. I now hope the Chief Planning Officer at the Council will not be long with the Terminal Planning Application

[Runway 32/14]

Quote:
I now hope the Chief Planning Officer at the Council will not be long with the Terminal Planning Application.

I agree, without their pemission, the development wont go ahead....this needs to be looked at with "forward thinking" and for the good of the airport...it would be nice to see LBA brought upto date!!! and starting to be used as a serious airport.......:ok:

[roverman]

A New York service sounds good in theory, but this sort of fragmentation of traffic across UK airports which are too close together in a small country benefits no-one once the economic circle has turned fully about. If LBA gets a New York service, no doubt there'll be fanfares and low fares and much civic rejoicing - for about a year. Then the marginal nature of the route will become apparent and it will be dropped, taking with it the remaining few transatlantics out of MAN, which will have suffered market leeching. The North of England will thus lose its remaining New York services and we'll all have to go to London or connect over AMS/CDG. There is only room for one viable long-haul gateway to serve the north of England. It's Manchester, or else it's London.

[BKS Air Transport]

Leeds or London then please.

I don't see why we should continue to support the north west of England at our expense. You get far more than your fair share of airline traffic, and far more than your fair share of government investment for all other forms of transport.

[Runway 32/14]

Quote:
Leeds or London then please.

I like your style BKS....I agree with you entirely......:D
I dont suppose that Bridgepoint have just come up with this idea to start Transatlantic flights without first of all doing some market research, and if we do leech some pax's from Man, then so be it...there is nothing in the airport code of practice that states that no airport is allowed to pinch passangers from rival airports.....surley if LBA can support a Transatlantic route, then they should be supported and encouraged.....the problem with Manchester is...... they have had the monopoly on travel for such a long time and when another airport offers the same or similar long haul service they dont like it, and for some reason feel threatened by a small regional airport, If pax's want to fly from Manchester they will...but for those of us that want to fly from Leeds/Bradford we now have the option to choose....surely this is not a bad thing....Well-done LBA for the forsight and determination to grow and develope further routes from our region:ok:

[HOODED]

I have to agree it sounds like sour grapes to me. I think MAN did not expect PIA to start a service direct from LBA and for it to do as well as it is. If we were to get a New York I'm sure that would do well too, as for falling after a year look at BRS dont CO still do the New York from there? Hasn't that been running over a year? Yes MAN would loose some pax as they have on the Islamabad, but PIA still operate from MAN do they not! There is room for these routes from both airports. Don't be too surprised to see a Dubai in the next couple of years either.

[santito]

Indeed, CO are still doing BRS-EWR daily direct- you have to remember BRS has about 3x the passenger throughput of LBA though, and the next closest 'big' airport (Heathrow) is farther from Bristol than Manchester is from LBA.

Having said that (and having lived in both Leeds and Bristol and used both city's airports), Leeds and Bristol are similar in terms of the kinds of companies establishing themselves in the city, and the BRS flight does very well from incoming American business travellers, so I would imagine a Leeds service would too.

It all depends on the carrier and frequency though. If it's not an airline that affords easy connections all over the USA (*A or Skyteam member), and the route is not frequent enough, it will fail.

[Runway 32/14]

Lets hope LBA do it right the first time.....maybe they should be talking to Continental Airlines....they do very well from Bristol..

[MerchantVenturer]

The CO BRS-EWR reaches its fourth anniversary next week (daily March-October and 5 x weekly November-February).

For much of the time the loads have been reasonably good, some months excellent (CAA stats), but for the most part not quite as good as the other UK regional airports on this route.

However, it is rumoured the airline struck a good deal (for them) with the airport so it would seem they have been happy to have kept it running for four years.

It's not rocket science to suggest the current economic turmoil will be a major test of its sustainability.

BRS and LBA share many similarities and as LBA has MAN, BRS has LHR, a much bigger airport with many more options than MAN, so perhaps in that repect LBA might be better placed than BRS because LHR does see a lot of transatlantic travellers from the Bristol area who, for varying reasons, don't use their local CO service.

[Mooncrest]

I am pleased to say I feel very encouraged by Mr Hallwood's announcements. Having been an LBA employee in various forms for over thirteen years, I admit to becoming increasingly weary and cynical about LBA ever being taken seriously by anyone other than Jet2.

Flybe's new Gatwick service is also welcome news. It cannot be allowed to fail so both airports' mangament teams, not to mention Flybe's, had better make sure it doesn't. I would expect Flybe to establish a base at LBA before too long. They had one before in the JEA F27 days so with more rotations and hopefully more destinations in Germany and Scandinavia it would be the obvious route to go down. What a nice problem it would be for LBA bosses to deal with if they ran out stands for overnight parking.

I maintain that the existing terminal should be demolished and a new one built on top of the short stay 2 car park but I don't suppose it will happen.

It still rankles somewhat that the holiday flights, Thomas Cook, Thomson, First Choice Holidays etc are lacking. It's been like this for years. Whilst Jet2 cover a good deal of the European hotspots they don't do them all so the potential is there. I know we're in a recession but the UK's comparable regionals, i.e BRS, NCL and EMA do far better in this respect. And with based budget airlines. I love Manchester Airport but for once, to hell with it. Let's see LBA do more than hold its own here and get a variety of tailfins. ;)

[backtrack_32]

" What a nice problem it would be for LBA bosses to deal with if they ran out stands for overnight parking. "

Its getting that way this summer isnt it?

Parking a 757 on 22L or even on stand 19. In my opinion the new apron was a waste of money. You cant even get 2 large aircraft next to each other without using non standard procedures!

[Runway 32/14]

There seemed to be plenty of room for all type of aircraft to park up for the Euro96 games......the next job should be a taxi way and an extra 300 metres of runway, after the overall revamp of the out dated facilities...

[backtrack_32]

It would be nice to see the fire station moved to the middle of the airfield where it should be. The buildings sticking out at the top of stand 2 and stand 4 such as the baggage hall and the offices and arrivals belts should be removed so stand 2 3 and 4 can be extended right into the terminal building.
Between taxiway C and D it would be nice to see some aircraft parking there aswell!

[Flying Yorkshireman]

Runway 32/14,


There seemed to be plenty of room for all type of aircraft to park up for the Euro96 games......the next job should be a taxi way and an extra 300 metres of runway, after the overall revamp of the out dated facilities...


I think what actually happened during Euro 96 was that taxiway Delta was used for parking, but on the basis that the aircraft were staying all day. It was then closed. An aircraft that wasn't at either end was effectively trapped by other aircraft and wouldn't be able to move unless others did so. This wouldn't be practical on a regular basis.

I seem to recall that a very large number of aircraft left one after the other in the evening after the match and I assume that the airlines and ATC had planned it that way.

Regards,

FY

[Facelookbovvered]

What utter ??????? don't get me wrong i would love to see LBA having US flights but it wont happen.

LBA is probably not far of its peak pax numbers now, it has talked about 3m+ for at least the last 8 years but never got there,

Why long haul wont happen

First off fuel is on its way back North ($60 dpb) the goverment increase in air passenger duty will kill any shopping trips to NY and the exchange rate will seal it, last March the $ was 2 to the pound its now $1.4 to the pound! i did 4 US trips last year and have yet to do 1 this year.

The we are like BRS is rubbish, Bristol can count the South West, South Wales, East as far as Newbury and North as far as Gloucester as its catchment area, that is a foot print that would cover Liverpool to Hull and EMA to NCL, perhaps not as many people, but with only Exeter and CWL to compete with, not EMA,HUY,DSA,MME(OK NOT MME!!)NCL,MAN&LPL

Its all well and good to be loud and proud of being a Tyke but lets not the rest of the UK have it confirmed that we are thick of head as well!!!

I would have thought by now that most people would have woken up to what face's the UK over the next 5 years who ever gets elected next year, it is going to mean spending cuts and taxes rises with little or nil earning growth, probably followed by inflation and rises in interest rates to fight it.

Look at most of the UK loco plans for winter 09, many are planning to fly less than this winter past, the green shoots in the North are going to be the grass growing on the regional airports runways.

The JET2 NY shopping trips served a purpose but did not make any money and are not likely to be repeated, a Connie 757 will not make the US off R32 non stop on 9 out of 10 days and wont autoland on 32.

Leeds has a good future but not for this sort of bollocks, it needs another Loco in Globespan, baby, Ryanair or better still Easy, failing that Wizz or Sky Europe if they are still going

[Runway 32/14]

Its nice to get a possotive responce about the future of LBA....Thanks for that Facelookbovvered.....I guess time will tell, this counrty will not be in recession for ever......and LBA will not be trying to sort out Transatlantic flights for the fun of it, they have a business to run....at the end of next year, we will be sitting here in the forum talking about how successful the transatalantic routes from LBA are doing!!!:ok: (i hope)

[Going loco]

LBA has superior TODAs, TORAs and ASDAs compared to BRS and nearly all of the BRS-EWR sectors have gone direct for 4 years. What's the science that says CO could only operate 10% of the services direct from LBA.

[Facelookbovvered]

TORA, ASDA count for nothing if your into wind runway is at the foot of a hill!! Engine out climb performance is what counts on a twin, if you can use 10knts twc off 14 to get the same lift off 32 it says it all, BRS is on the top of a hill, for F**k sake, its like an aircraft carrier, the management of Leeds are playing to the crowd, in the same way LUFC were in talking about Leeds in Europe...........lets beat Millwall first before we talk about Barcelona.

If putting winglets on a 22 year old aircraft is about going to the states, well what can i say, it ain't going to happen, even Manchester is seeing a reduction in US traffic what makes anyone think Leeds is stronger

I am not anti Leeds far from it i have earned a living from it for more years than i care to remember but lets face it the airport is in the wrong place.....

[Runway 32/14]

Good luck to LBA!!!! the planning decision committee meet today hopefully with the right decision to allow the developement to go ahead, and for expansion of the airport!!!

[L-Band]

Well said Facelookbovvered
It is about time these spotters who thing they know just a bit about the operation of Airports,Aircraft and the operation are put in there place:ok:
L

[Runway 32/14]

Why is the forum always bitching, i posted some information regarding the possibility/likelihood of LBA having Transatlantic flights within the next couple of years!!! i may add that this information has come from a very reliable source, so why do people incist on poo-pooing the idea, it is attitudes like that, that will cause this airport to fail.....you should be wishing them well, and stop knocking them, they are trying to make this airport good and sustainable, they are trying to expand the destinations available from LBA, i dont see why that should be a problem....if you dont want to fly from Leeds and would rather travel to another airport, then so be it!!! but i would find some of you to be hypocrites if you were booking to fly from Leeds after you have condemned them for expanding routes!!!!:=

[Facelookbovvered]

I am not knocking you or the airport, just pointing out that it is in my view unlikely to happen and the reasons why. Some get off on seeing a heavy jet at Leeds but it doesn't pay the bills.

Years ago we used to get Wardair 747 in, but even that went by way of BHX on the way out

Leeds should set its store out on what can be achieved, which to be fair Jet2 have done much of the work for them, they have lost bmi mainline and regional will likely end up with two aircraft doing GLA/EDI and they might not even be based long term, a few Ryanair flights, ditto Eastern & Flybe.

Other wise this thread will end up like the drivel on Durham Tees Valley page

[BKS Air Transport]

If you look back at the original post (#550), you will see that the comments were made by Tony Hallwood. I think he probably does have an idea what he is talking about.

[wawkrk]

Not according to Facelookbovvered who obviously is an aviation executive with huge knowledge.

[MAN777]

Heres an interesting observation from personal experience last week.

Manchester Airport to Junc 26 (Bradford exit) 45 minutes

Same Junction to Leeds BRADFORD Airport 50 minutes !!

Point being ?

What an A*se of a place to get to !

[Strelnikov]

BRS airport, that provides an interesting benchmark for LBA, is hardly well connected to the highways network either.

[M62]

MAN777

I don't know what time of day you made the trip but I work next to J26 and I can get to LBA in 20 mins. It has also taken me two hours to get to MAN. Journey times are often down to luck.

[14 loop]

Heres an interesting observation from personal experience last week.

Manchester Airport to Junc 26 (Bradford exit) 45 minutes

Same Junction to Leeds BRADFORD Airport 50 minutes !!

Point being ?

What an A*se of a place to get to !

I do not disagree that the journey west from this most south-westerly part of the Bradford conurbtion to LBA isn't the best. However junction 26 is almost as far from LBA as you can get whilst remaining in the borough. The other issue to note is that the great swathe of the Leeds-Bradford conurbation's affluent areas tend to be north of the cities. Certainly getting to Manchester Airport from many of these areas require that slog across either Bradford (or Leeds) that you allude to before reaching the motorway network.

Then of course there is the great variable in a journey to Ringway...the M62. Some days, 45 mins, others 2 hours? If you are catching a flight you legislate for the latter.

There will always be people that find MAN easier from within West Yorks and others that find LBA easier and I reckon Parkin, Halwood etal still have enough of the latter that curently leak to MAN to grow the LBA business.

[Facelookbovvered]

Travel times to LBA from around our region are a mixed bag, but often not as bad as it seems, with most early flights you have to be at the airport that early that you miss the worst of the traffic, rush hour is another matter.

Jet2 have stopped a large amount of the leakage to Manchester, however at the same time they have seen off some of the IT operators, Leeds has lost a lot of traffic to the railways post Hatfield. bmi used to move a lot of people to/from LHR. one only has to look at list of flights that bmi have started and stopped to see that LBA is no MAN/BHX in terms of catchment

Longhaul charter could work from but runway performance remains an issue

[Runway 32/14]

I can get to LBA in 40 minutes from Junction 41 off the M1........Infact i will be doing it tonight, as i fly to Turkey tonight from Leeds.....i didnt just book it, i Thomas Cooked it!!!!!
Later people....:ok:

[Facelookbovvered]

I can get to MAN in 40 minutes from J41 i can get to EMA in 75 minutes (85min until the j28-25 road works are finished)

Leeds will never be manchester, nor should it try to be, Manchester like Leeds is slowly losing its London flights (VLM) we got PIA because of the local population, not because its a great place to visit.

If we get the US i don't think it will stay a full season, in twenty years of flying out of both MAN/Leeds i have only once been unable to get into MAN and never had to reduce payload to get out, Leeds on the other hand!!!

Lets keep leeds for short haul

[al446]

Then of course there is the great variable in a journey to Ringway...the M62. Some days, 45 mins, others 2 hours?

There is a quicker way. I can't help out in avoiding the hell that is the M62 coming down from Huddersfield but there are several ways to avoid congestion after J21, I live in Milnrow and work in M/C so have tried all of them (I think). All exits from 20 to 18 will get you to Middleton roundabout, the junction of M60 & A576, and from there it is easy and relatively quick to cut across town and get to Princess Parkway (A5103). Take M/C exit which takes you past Heaton Park, carry straight on until at end of Leicester Road, turn R at lights, through one set of lights, next left, carry on until Trinity Way (A6042), turn right follow it and airport is signposted. Knocks almost an hour off in bad traffic.

Anyone got similar for this end to LBA please?

[ex-XL-in-exile]

MAN777 - where you get MAN being less travelling time than LBA from J26 of the M62 I shall never know, not unless you're travelling to MAN by car and LBA on horseback.

I regularly fly out of LBA (Jet2) and I currently live in a place called East Bierley, two minutes from J26 of the M62. It takes me, on average, no more than 20-30 mins from there, traffic dependent, and that involves going through the middle of Bradford.

MAN, on the otherhand is, again, on average, about an hour away. I know, I have done both reasonably regularly.

(Each beats commuting from Sheps Bush to Gatwick as I did in XL's glory days.)

Tallyho.

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone know how FlyBE's route to Gatwick is selling as a replacement for bmi's route to Heathrow ?

I saw a press release, in which BE made very clear that the LBA-LGW route was on sale. I know that new routes need plenty of marketing to get them going, but selling roundtrips for under £25 in August does not give me a reassuring feeling about this

Included amongst the choice routes on offer are those between London Gatwick, Leeds Bradford, and Dusseldorf

[LBIA]

Hi all

Not Good News,

It has been confirmed by Leeds City Council that the latest hearing of the application by LBIA for its terminal development that was differed in April that was to take place at the Plans Panel (West) meeting on June 11th 2009 at Leeds Civic Hall has now been cancelled.

And to make matters worse, there is no suggestion that the matter will be heard at the next meeting on 9th July either.

So what happens next?

Well the Leeds Bradford Airport Support Group that attends the Airport Consultative Committee, and has been going since it was formed back 1987 have launched a brand new new website LBASG (http://www.lbasg.org) to show again their support, It works in the same way that B.I.S.C.O.N helps support Bristol Airport.

We only ask for you to take a couple of minutes out of you time and please come take a look at what we are trying to do. Thankyou.

[Runway 32/14]

Yes its nice to see some encouragement for our wonderful airport, i have had a look at the web site : lbasg, have you also seen this one that is floating about :LBIAExpansion (http://lbiaexpansion.tripod.com/)

I think they are on the same wave lenght, but without any real involvement with the airport or planning commitee, its worth taking a look though,
There is no one more supportive in the expansion of leeds, than me, i wish them well..:ok:


Has anyone heard the rumour about PIA changing their aircraft from A310's to 777's for the summer at Leeds.
If this is true, then what a massive achievement for Leeds/Bradford, and for PIA......

Might need to do some work on the ground, or they wont be able to park it up!!!!

[backtrack_32]

As from october the route will be operated by a B777, And will most likley continue using stand 8, aslong as the stands either side are clear!

[lbalad]

Am I correct in assuming a 777 has never visited LBIA?.

Will the 777 be able to fly to Islamabad from LBIA non stop?.

Was up at the airport tonight to see the A310 landing on 14.Then went to terminal and saw crew going to bus.Had loads of luggage with them,do they stay local and fly back to Islamabad or go to other UK airport and fly from there?.

[flybar]

Am I correct in assuming a 777 has never visited LBIA?.

Will the 777 be able to fly to Islamabad from LBIA non stop?.



There will be considerable operating constraints, using a B777 at LBA, because of available runway length!!

[Runway 32/14]

Official sources at LBA say that PIA have confirmed that they will be replacing the A310 on the LBA to ISB route with a Boeing 777 - probably a 200ER series, which has similar take off performance and even longer range than the A310. No date given, but it will happen. Some preparation work on the ground at LBA may be required first, particularly around the parking apron,

[LBIA]

Anyone know what going on with today's Jet2 Alicante flights?

The outbound LS271 has operated as normal but the inbound LS272 is currently showing Cancelled.

A second flight is now showing on the departure boards which has just departed as the LS27A and is due to return to LBA later this afternoon as the LS27B.

Meanwhile Something is due to position in from Stansted with-in the next half hour as the LS15P

[mmeteesside]

G-LSAI took the 271 out to Alicante, G-CELA has gone to Alicante as 27A, due back later at 72B. The 15P from Stansted is G-CELP coming to do the Belfast 325/326 and Dusseldorf 347Q/348Q that presumably G-CELA was due to do. Hope that helps.

[scamptonboy]

Meanwhile Something is due to position in from Stansted with-in the next half hour as the LS15P


Tis only B737 G-CELP

[LBIA]

Hi All

Emergency landing at LBA this lunchtime.

Just shortly after 12:55 BST (Sunday 07/06/09) An Air Southwest operating flight WOW524L from Newquay to Newcastle diverted into Leeds Bradford Airport

The flight was been operated by a Dash 8-Q200 aircraft (Registration G-WOWB), and carrying 43 souls on board.

The crew reported that they had, had a low oil pressure warning while in the cruise. Aircraft was cleared to descended to 5,000ft and direct into LBA hold. Once reaching the hold the crew officially declared a PAN reporting that they had a low oil warning light on the number 2 engine and would be landing as normal on a visual approach with only one engine

After landing the aircraft taxied to stand as normal and the incident was classed as closed at 13:20

[OliWW]

PIA website is still showing a A310 for flights upto December, the other half of the winter hasnt been release, so maybe a Summer 10 start for the 777

[Runway 32/14]

Looks like Thomas Cook are are doing flights to Sharm el Sheikh this winter and they will be using an Airbus A310 from Leeds!!!!

[freightdoggy dog]

Tut tut Scamptonboy..."Tis only"...They wont know whats hit em...Business class seats ( grey leather Recaro ), full galley fit front and rear.Wardrobe storage for the CC....Your Private Charter..sheer luxury lad...I said when I was a boy livin in brown paper bag !

We're only too glad to "lend" LP to help out the troops, just get it back in time for Postman Pat and no nicking the soft tissue paper in the lav .

[LBIA]

Thomas Cook's new winter charters to Egypts Sharm el Sheikh from LBA have been on sale for a while now. See my post back in November 2008. http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/339552-leeds-5-a-7.html#post4555895

Flights were mentioned to be operated every Tuesday with a Newcastle or Manchester based Boeing 757-200 as Thomas Cook dont have any A310's.

[Runway 32/14]

Not according to LBIA's winter schedules

I would have posted a picture, but i cant get the image code to work..

[sam1993]

Thomas Cook flights to Sharm El Sheikh this winter will be operated by a Newcastle based Boeing 757!

Sam

[backtrack_32]

I see the WOW/SZ that broke down has moved now to the south side hangers. Any one have any info on the problem?

[L1649]

It had a large oil loss from the number 2 engine.

[Whitehatter]

Talking about 777s at LBA, if anyone remembers the GE90 rollback issue some years ago EK and others were using the aircraft fitted with those engines at full takeoff thrust for a short period.

Forget LBA, a 773ER could have used London City. They were leaping in the air when not using the systems to derate them based on payload and available concrete.

PIA have some bog standard 777s and also the 772LR with the big GE90s so if their scheduling permits then a 772LR would be the ideal plane for the job. Plenty of thrust and reverser action available to compensate for LBA's short runway. The aircraft uses runway if it's available, but when it isn't then they have considerable flexibility to crank up the power. These two frames (BGY and BGZ) regularly turn up on less taxing duty such as the PK701/2 at MAN so slotting them into LBA may be possible if the pavement loading isn't a problem.

[wawkrk]

Forget LBA, a 773ER could have used London City. They were leaping in the air when not using the systems to derate them based on payload and available concrete

A point I made weeks ago flying about half full range of fuel to ISB.
The take off distance for these variants is less than the 733.
I assume runway strength is the same as in the past so 744's no problem.

[HOODED]

Runway strength is certainly not an issue the runway is concrete PCN 61R/A/W/T whilst the loading isn't the highest it is Rigid (R) and its sub sructure is the strongest (A) also it's rated for maximum tyre pressure allowed (W) and has been evaluated by Technical evaluation (T).As a comparison Birmingham is PCN 63 F/B/W/T Manston is PCN 53 F/C/W/T. If I remember correctly before the 747 could operate the then Runway 28 was dug up (an asphalt runway) to strengthen the pavement to allow the 747 to taxy through Bravo to the apron.
The only problem I can see is where they would park the beast without disrupting other larger ac movements. If it used one of the airbridges then it would probably preclude ac taxying behind it.

[14 loop]

the runway is concrete PCN 61R/A/W/T

That bearing strength is the old data....the current data is as follows;

51/R/B/W/T.

[HOODED]

51/R/B/W/T

Granted it is from an old document, as were the Birmingham and Manston figures, could you please explain how the strength and sub surface has changed or is this a reassessment of the requirements?

Thanks

[14 loop]

could you please explain how the strength and sub surface has changed

The data quoted is from the NATS ais aerodrome info website so it is current. I'm not an expert however and cannot account for the change but it seems to me that the runway is less capable than before.

The PCN number is assessed as 51, ie it is lower than it used to be so is less capable of sustaining aircraft of higher weights.

The Sub-grade strength category: Has changed from A where

A High strength: characterized by K150 Nm/m3 1 and respresenting all K values above 120 Nm/m3 for rigid pavements, and by CBR2 = 15 and representing all CBR values above 13 for flexible pavements.

to B where

B Medium strength: characterized by K80 Nm/m3 and representing a range in K of 60 to 120 Nm/m3 for rigid pavements, and by CBR = 10 and representing a range in CBR of 8 to 13 for flexible pavements.

A look at the Boeing data for a B777-200LR;

MaxTOW of 348,358Kg on a B runway, a PCN of 82 is needed.
MinTOW of 145,150Kg on a B runway, a PCN of 23 is needed.

So as long as the aircraft isn't anywhere near MaxTOW then the runway is sufficient! [Edit - a further look at the Boeing data reveals that with a PCN of 51 Rigid B runway - the MaxTOW avail on a 777-20LR is approx 290,000Kg]

[Runway 32/14]

It does seem a little unusual how the runway can become less strong than before.....the only reason i could see a downgrade in surface condition and strenght is if the runway is heavily cracked or subsiding, the runway surface wont have warn down that far (will it) it will be a superior type of concrete than they use on the roads......Me thinks this is too confusing for me!!!!:eek:

[BKS Air Transport]

Those repairs they did over winter weren't done by a guy with a lorry offering to put down a bit of tarmac for fifty quid, were they?:E

[Dash-7 lover]

Backtrack32 - see previous posts. Aircraft required an engine change and declared serviceable this afternoon. Will be positioning empty back to Plymouth this eve. LBIA Just for info its a Dash-8-311 and not a Q200 - none of the WOW fleet are Q series as they don't have the cabin noise supression system fitted not that that made any difference anyway.

Cheers

[lbalad]

Anybody have any idea how popular todays inagural services were?.What were the pax numbers?.

Do you think this route will be a success?.

[wawkrk]

30 pax on evening flight.

[harrogate]

Harrogate
On a slight tangent, I think a 'modest' and well timed service to the capital would still be viable.

National Express have been making a phenomenal pigs ear of the train service since they took over from GNER (who rather hastily gave the franchise up, remember - and then regretted it massively).

I used to think these inter-city train operators were all much of a muchness, but National Express are truly, truly awful. Terrible service, terrible cleanliness, terrible catering - I see so, so many pissed off people on the London trains from Leeds these days. It really is a horrible experience, and I'm not particularly fussy. The decline since GNER gave up the franchise has been striking.

But then I hear National Express have already been stripped of the franchise and it looks likely that Virgin will get it. Think what you like about Virgin companies, but Virgin Trains have got to be better than the current shower of ****. I've been on Virgin Trains a few times and it's always been fine - far better than National Express.

I know my lady's colleagues at the DoH (and the DWP for that matter) would gladly utilise a London air service if it was cost effective enough for them to justify. The onward European connections were especially handy for them prior to the budget cutbacks which prevented them from using the plane in most cases.



MMENCLLBAMAN

National Express (from Leeds)
Arrive 20 minutes before train and grab coffee in pleasant First Class Lounge.
Join clean train, take seat with water, biscuits and real cup ready for coffee.
Switch on laptop and treat train as office.
Decide slightly hungry and walk to restaurant where pleasant food served by pleasant people (albeit expensive)
Realise by Stevenage have done more work on train than would have done in office decide to pick up paper and catch up on world affairs.
Pull into Kings Cross, leave train refreshed.
Possible drawbacks: No seat (I always reserve as book far enough in advance to get cheaper tickets) or possible delays (IMHO much less now with NXEC than under GNER - maybe due to their very fair Delay Repay policy)

Fast forward a few months...

BBC NEWS | Business | National Express loses rail route (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8127851.stm)

Despite what MMENCLLBAMAN said there back in Feb, it's been patently obvious to anyone who uses the east coast mainline service regularly that National Express have been killing it slowly. They gave up on it months ago. It's now a shocking customer experience, and they're actually managing to lose passenger numbers at a time when pretty much every other mainline train operator grows them.

The down-side of all of this for Flybe is that a decent train operator will get hold of the franchise now, who'll run it properly and so kill off the LBA - London air connection forever.

Bring back GNER.

OK, so Virgin may not get the franchise (or they may), but anyone will be better than National Express. Anyone thinking the National Express service was anything like acceptable needs to calibrate their expectations, because they're way off the mark.

[lplsprog]

From the news today it's welcome back British Railways!:D

[dh dragon]

Bring back GNER ? it's already done ! Government Nationalised East coast Railway :hmm:

[Serenity]

Flybe Fills the National Express Void
01 July 2009
Flybe, Europe’s largest regional airline, today reported record sales on its new air service from Yorkshire to London.
In direct contrast to the chaos on the rail network, which today saw the government take the East Coast rail service into public ownership, Flybe sold more tickets on June 30th than on any other day since the route was announced in April.
Commenting on the strong sales, Mike Rutter, Flybe’s Chief Commercial Officer said:
“The demand for tickets on Flybe’s new service from Leeds Bradford to London Gatwick has exceeded all expectations. Flybe came to the rescue when BMI walked away from their Leeds to London air service and now it seems we are coming to the rescue of more and more Yorkshire travellers who have lost faith with the railways. Transport links for the UK’s regional economies are crucial and Flybe is proud to provide convenient, affordable and reliable services for Yorkshire and London alike.”


Seems like bookings are well up for Flybe as people again lose confidence in the shambles that are the overpriced national railways!!

[karlee alpha]

Rumour has it that PIA are to start B-777 ops back end of October, the turning D at 32 is the same as islamabad so no problems there

[backtrack_32]

November needs work on it, and afaik they dont know which stand its going on yet!

[Standard Loading]

Rumour has it that PIA are to start B-777 ops back end of October, the turning D at 32 is the same as islamabad so no problems there

On the back of that their is supposedly a gentlemen coming from PIA OPS from ISB coming to inspect the RW32 turning "D" to approve it, apparentley the only change if required will be a few more lines!

[lbalad]

If this turns out to be true,is it likely to be 777 200 series,or 777 300 series?

Just noticed from lbia website,last nights flight arrived 1 1/2 hours late but departed 6 hours late at 2AM.What was the reason for this lengthy delay anybody?.

[ex-XL-in-exile]

I notice yesterday's Yorkshire Evening Post reports that the expansion plans at LBA are set to be given the go-ahead at a meeting pencilled in for Thursday of this week.

Thoughts (article below) ?

PLANS for a £28m terminal expansion at Leeds Bradford International Airport are expected to be given the green light.

Leeds City Council's planning committee was set to rubber-stamp the project – expected to generate 3,000 jobs – in April but deferred its decision calling for better transport links.

The authority's chief planning officer has now compiled a new report addressing its queries and is recommending the panel "defer and delegate approval" at Leeds Civic Hall on Thursday, subject to a raft of conditions to combat congestion and improve public transport.

They include the setting up of a transport steering group, including Leeds, Bradford, and York City Councils, Metro and Leeds Bradford International Airport to monitor the impact of the changes on highways and public transport.

And more than £1m will be paid out to improve bus services.

The report concludes: "There has been considerable discussion and negotiation with the airport since April and significant progress has been made."

It adds: "The airport has also committed to longer term initiatives including making their land available for tram train."

It said the steering group would review passenger numbers and traffic levels. Cash provided through the planning conditions would mean action could be taken to minimise impact on the roads.

The application is for a two-storey extension, providing a new entrance and improved shops, passenger screening zone and immigration facilities.

Airport owners Bridgepoint Capital say passengers travelling through the existing terminal building are beset with delays and congestion.

Although the council has received an "unprecedented" number of representations, for and against the project, no-one is objecting to the building itself.

Concerns stem from the expected growth in passenger and car numbers and the impact on surrounding routes.

The report to councillors said its transport strategy was drawn up using a worst-case scenario of traffic around the airport growing to five million passengers per year by 2012. Levels were unlikely to reach that point as they had remained constant for the past three years.

The expansion of the terminal building is at the heart of a £70m masterplan designed to improve facilities and increase passenger numbers to 5.1 million a year by 2016.

Preliminary works costing £2m have already been carried out.

Tony Hallwood, pictured, commercial and aviation development director at LBIA, said: "Our aim is to offer customers modern facilities which allow them quick and easy access to and from the terminal.

"We are determined to continue to improve the quality of services we provide to our passengers and our on-going investment will deliver a significant enhancement to terminal facilities."

Councillors will visit the airport on Thursday before the application is once again put before them.

[LBIA]

Hi all

Good news to report from todays meeting. Finally common sense seems to have prevailed as Leeds City Council's planning committee have now backed the planned £28 million expansion of the airport this evening.

See full report from BBC website. BBC NEWS | UK | England | West Yorkshire | Airport expansion plans approved (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/8164829.stm)

Airport expansion plans approved

Plans to extend Leeds Bradford Airport, which would double its capacity in five years, have been backed by councillors.

The proposals include a £28m extension to the terminal building, a new departure lounge, an improved check-in area and an expanded security zone.

In April, Leeds City Council rejected the plan because of concerns over the impact on roads around the airport.

As part of the new plans thousands of pounds will be invested in public transport to and from the airport.

The planned improvements are part of a five-year £70m investment programme promised by private equity firm Bridgepoint Capital, which bought the airport for £145m last year.

John Parkin, the airport's chief executive, said: "We are creating capacity for the airport to serve the demand for air travel from this region.

"There are more people flying from Manchester who live in our catchment area than we have total passenger numbers.

"This is a situation that needs to be corrected."

The revised plans have been recommended for approval subject to several conditions, including the setting up of a transport steering group to assess the impact on road traffic and public transport options.

[lbalad]

Good news.

I don't claim to understand all the technicalities,does this mean the expansion will definately go ahead or what?.

The current terminal is a mish mash of added on bits and pieces,but that new extended terminal wouldn't win any architectural prizes in my opinion!.

[Runway 32/14]

From the Artist impressions i have seen, i think the airport is going to look great, more modern and up to date, a complete re-fit will breathe long awaited fresh air into the lungs of LBA.

May the growth continue..:ok:(what are the chances of a runway extension):confused:

[paully]

Runway extension is a bit unlikely but I bet it gets a lot more new shops :ugh:

[karlee alpha]

Does anyone know what happened at the airport today? everyone was denide access due to, according to a police officer an "incident"

[righthandrule]

An empty car was left in the drop off point infront of the terminal for fifteen minutes, with its engine running.

[LBIA]

Hi

Jet2 has announced 2 new routes from its LBA base to Bergerac and Corfu for the summer 2010 season.

The airline will fly to Bergerac in France twice weekly on Tuesday and Saturdays against the current twice weekly Wednesday and Saturday flybe.com service. The new Corfu service will be operated once weekly on Mondays which will go against the long running weekly Friday, Thomson Holidays Charter.

Also good news is that the new Egypt route to Sharm el Sheikh will go to a year round operation.

[harrogate]

Rumour has it that PIA are to start B-777 ops back end of October, the turning D at 32 is the same as islamabad so no problems there

Something's afoot on the PIA website. For the past day or so it's not been possible to book any flights ex LBA for the next 9 months. Only flights the other way have been available. Maybe they're re-jigging the schedule for the introduction of a 777.

[LBIA]

Hi

Looks like flybe are to either open a base or have London Gatwick crews night stopping at LBA from October. As of the winter schedule the route timings has been altered and by the looks of things it will be operated by a LBA based Dash 8-Q400 aircraft.

Monday to Friday
BE350 LBA - 07:00 - LGW - 08:15
BE351 LGW - 08:45 - LBA - 09:55
BE352 LBA - 14:30 - LGW - 15:45
BE353 LGW - 16:20 - LBA - 17:30
BE356 LBA - 18:10 - LGW - 19:25
BE357 LGW - 19:55 - LBA - 21:05

Saturdays
BE350 LBA - 07:55 - LGW - 09:10
BE351 LGW - 09:45 - LBA - 10:55
BE730 LBA - 11:35 - BHD - 12:30
BE731 BHD - 12:55 - LBA - 13:50

Sundays
BE352 LBA - 14:30 - LGW - 15:45
BE353 LGW - 16:20 - LBA - 17:30
BE356 LBA - 18:10 - LGW - 19:25
BE357 LGW - 19:55 - LBA - 21:05

[Wellington Bomber]

Tinkering with the flight times already, must be doing really well NOT!

[Stampe]

You can drive LBA from LGW point to point quicker than you can fly given modern airport aggrevation.From Kent where I live even NCL is quicker driven most times.VBR Stampe

[Serenity]

I was on the LGW/LBA the other day and it was in the 60`s both ways, with only 78 seats id say thats not a bad load!!

Last time i drove LBA/london it took 4.5 hours and that was outside of rush hour and without queues on the M25.
Last time i drove NCL/london it took 7.5 hours.

I would say no comparison, take the plane every time!!!!

:ok:

[SWBKCB]

modern airport aggravation

Yes - by comparison our road system is a delight....:=

[JobsaGoodun]

Tinkering with the flight times already, must be doing really well NOT!

I think you'll find that Flybe took this on at very short notice following BMI withdrawing and grabbed whatever LGW slots were available for the remainder of the season. It's clear that the market is largely inbound to London in the morning and that an early departure ex LBA was always going to be more favourable.

This option was only going to be possible once the LGW base was established and once they had some element of historic rights on the slots. I think you'll find that this will only serve to strengthen the route. It doesn't necessarily mean that things aren't going well at present.

[Aircrew101]

I hear Jet 2 737 has had an engine fire tonight is this true??

[righthandrule]

I believe it was the evening LS459 CDG aircraft resulting in the runway been closed for a short time.

[lagerlout]

Really - Engine Fire - a touch of artistic licence perhaps?

[timothy taylor]

Broken V band clamp on APU bleed air ducting, caused a bit of smoke in the cabin.

[ex-XL-in-exile]

This is of particular interest to me, given LBA is the airport closest to my native Leeds. Great news, imho.

Ryanair announces major expansion plans with base at LBA

Published Date: 11 August 2009


Low-cost airline Ryanair today announced it is to set up a base at Leeds Bradford International Airport creating hundreds of new jobs.

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary was at the airport to make the announcement, which the Dublin-based airline said would have a "significant impact" on the Yorkshire region.

It is a major boost to the airport, which is on course to almost double in size after planners recently gave permission for a £28 million development.

The scheme includes upgrading the terminal, which would also feature a new two-storey extension to accommodate a new airside departure lounge.

Source: BREAKING: Jobs boost as Ryanair announces new Leeds Bradford Airport base - Yorkshire Evening Post (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/BREAKING-Jobs-boost-as-Ryanair.5541806.jp)

[veeOne99]

Leeds confirmed as a base.

I for one am happy as live in Leeds!

[RedPortLeft]

8 of the new routes already served by Jet2 :*
Of the other 6, Malta looks a good route to gain :ok:

[Wellington Bomber]

Creates hundreds of jobs, thats a laugh for 2 a/c

No check -in, no cleaning a/c, quick turnarounds, Eastern European crews, where is all these hundreds going to work

please advise

Cant wait till some of these new guys try to land at LBA when the wind blows, with all the pressure from Micky Finn saying you must land do not divert otherwise Brookmans will have no work for you!

[Based]

Clearly estimating the number of jobs created isn't an exact science. Here's a link to an estimation by a number of aviation sources across Europe, observed by the European Commission: http://www.eraa.org/intranet/documents/14/427/061005fastfacts.pdf

They estimate 4,000 jobs per 1 million passengers which, as I've said before, actually makes Ryanair's 1,000 for 1 million passengers look like an under-estimation!

Cant wait till some of these new guys try to land at LBA when the wind blows, with all the pressure from Micky Finn saying you must land do not divert otherwise Brookmans will have no work for you!

Childish comment.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Cant wait till some of these new guys try to land at LBA when the wind blows, with all the pressure from Micky Finn saying you must land do not divert otherwise Brookmans will have no work for you!

Mods, can't you simply ban idiots like this?

There is absolutely no evidence to support such vitriolic claptrap.

[Facelookbovvered]

Leeds has its own set of weather problems, but they are no worse than you'll see in Cork, yes there will be diverts in part because Ryanair are very strict on stable approach critera (rightly) and that's not always possible at Leeds.

It will be interesting to see if Mr Messon's responds, he can only do so much, in any event Ryanair will grow the market at Leeds and some of that will benefit Jet2, i would expect a reaction from PM, probably towards MME or DSA, he could do worse than start DUB, but only on Fri, Sun, Monday

I guess Jet2 will push further into the Jet2holidays market and long routes beyond the Med

Don't poohoo the low number of based aircraft either, one only has to look at EMA or BHX to see that there are far more flights than aircraft with many starting down route

Jet2 will face the same problem as bmibaby, in using ageing aircraft that go tech more often, fly slower use more fuel per seat Km, putting friendly low fares on the side won't make a difference, wait whilst they turn up with an aircraft with Bye Bye Jet2 on the side, this could knock a big hole in the idea of using a 757 to the med

[lbalad]

I have mixed feelings about today's Ryanair announcement.Whilst I welcome the new destinations,feel a bit sorry for Jet2 who now face competition on several cities served.

Jet2 have been a godsend to LBA,I just hope that they don't get hissed off,and take their business elsewhere now.

Maybe this competition will be a good thing.I do think that Jet2 have become more and more expensive recently.I came back from Krakow yesterday,I flew Easyjet from Liverpool as the Jet2 flights were double the price.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

[A300BOY]

Thats the point more and more people are starting to use flights from other airports again due to the Jet 2 monopoly of Leeds and higher fares. I love Jet 2 and pay the extra willingly for the convenience but I think we also need an alternative to keep growth at the airport going. I suspect Manchester might be Ryanairs next base just to rub salt in the wound.

[victorc10]

Sounds like great news to me.

Wellington bomber...you really don't have a clue!

[rapidman47]

Hearty congrats on wining over Ryanair:D:ok:

[Prawn_to_Run]

Facelookbovvered (http://www.pprune.org/members/232196-facelookbovvered) makes a good point about Jet2 and it's clapped out aircraft.

They seem to have a policy of not replacing parts like they used to and this has affected reliability. Pax get f**ked off with diverts, tech delays and being bussed all over the place along with high fares. There'll be no customer loyalty if Ryanair starts dropping their fares after moving in.

Having a large fleet of ****tip 737-300s leaves PM with limited funds to buy a decent fleet of new aircraft :confused:

[LowFareFinder]

Now we will see just how good the mgt are. They currently have engine failure on a cold dark windy night, with no real appealing diverts. O'Leary is the examiner, and his fingers are dancing over a selection of other failure modes to give the crew something to think about. The question is now failure, or a pass.

It is accepted fact that Jet2 cannot compete with EZY or RYR. Now 2 aircraft are on their doorstep, and the RYR press release is a clear torpedo shot towards the soft underbelly of Jet2 targeting Spain, Italy and France (the real revenue generators for jet2). Share price was down 15%, so the city thinks they are very vunerable.

All it will take is a summer of losses, and Jet2 doesn't have the cash reserves to get it out of danger. It is the beginning of the end for Jet2 as a low cost airline. They will move out of city breaks within 12 months and move towards a complete package holiday company and freight. More 757/767, and less of the old 733s.

We will see what we will see.

[commit aviation]

I think A300BOY is right. J2 have tried to play the yield management game and have reduced frequencies on a number of routes for S10. This has opened the door for RYR & others.
The airport wants growth and this should help. The catchment area is large enough to handle both airlines and 14 routes with 2 aircraft is not likely to create a serious dent in the Jet2 operation where the 2 compete. (There doesn't seem to have a been any fallout on BCN/GRO or ALC so far.)

[toledoashley]

So we are looking at a company more like Monarch, semi-scheduled flights to popular beach destinations. Canaries, Spain, Portugal, Italy,Croatia, Cyprus, Turkey and Egypt.

[EI-BUD]

Very surprised that LBA was chosen I was confident that FR were bound for MAN on this one!!!

I think that Jet2 has a very well established name and brand in the LBA Area. And yes it will be cut throat for a while. It may be very like BFS where Easyjet (who is v well establised) has Aer Lingus (who would be as well know in BFS area as FR would be in LBA area? Probable debate on this!!). Aer Lingus took Easyjet on in key markets eg AMS, CDG, BCN, GVA, FAO etc. many of which are now withdrawn or being withdrawn.

The difference in LBA is that FR will not axe routes in the face of competition from Jet2. Ryanair will be in for the long run.

Good luck to Ryanair. I still think that MAN is the ultimate desired destination and as has been mentioned on the forum MAN will be under pressure for LBA and LPL for low cost traffic, when MAN decide that they want this back and put the deal on the table Ryanair will go for it.

[Runway 32/14]

DSA forum's are not very happy with todays news about Ryanair and LBA....one gentleman refered to LBA as a "shed", and are worried that Ryanair will pull the plug permanently form DSA......At the end of the day Ryanair must have been given a massive incentive to base at Leeds, but also with the brand new terminal and further airport expansion on the cards, all this makes perfect sense..
Long may it continue, who knows, this could encourage other routes and other airlines to give LBA a try......at the end of the day The Shed beat DSA hands down......maybe its just sour grapes, but LBA have been waiting for an opportunity like this one for years.....all they need now is a descent road system and a very much needed rail link from Horsforth....
Come on LBA lets make things work and do things right, this will keep the airlines happy, and not push them away.
Your Airport Needs You..........:ok:

[ALLMCC]

Can't help feeling that FR's arrival at LBA will cause serious problems for Jet2. Neither Easy or Baby operate from LBA and Flybe's presence there is small with only one international route all of which will give FR a clear run. Unless Jet2 can raise some capital to buy or lease newer aircraft, it will only be a matter of time before the power of FR will push them out of LBA altogether.

[Jet2krazey]

Then Jet2 are better of keeping the aircraft they already have! No leasing costs! keeping costs and fares as low as possible! leasing aircraft would just put a bigger strain on them!
A seat on a plane is a seat! weather is a brand new Ryanair 737 or a 20yr old Jet2 aircraft in my opinion! who takes that into account when booking a ticket! its the cost of the ticket and the way the airline treats you, that i look at! Jet2s planes go tech yes but so do new aircraft! Every airline suffers tech delays! just cos Jet2s aircraft are older, they still look ok inside and do a good job! All down to good engineers! :ok:

[Runway 32/14]

Very good point, when you book a flight or a holiday the tour company dont tell you about the age or condition of the aircraft you will be flying on......also Thomas Cook are going to be using alot of jet2 aircraft for next summer....sharing seats or whatever it is they call it, do passangers get a choice of which plane they travel on..jet2 or Thomas Cook..it cant be all bad......seats are seats, as long as you get to wherever it is you are going, and the price is right...who cares

[harrogate]

It's gonna be interesting.

The reaction in the City is purely knee-jerk. There's not much intelligence behind that, other than casual uninformed whispers about some airport up north.

I don't think that Jet2 can hope for brand loyalty on a grand scale. But then people really don't like the Ryanair stealth fees these days. Booking on their website really is a nonsense for the uninitiated, as all the fees start plopping on top of the fare, and taking the total cost to something not far off a Jet2 fare price.

I've been doing quite a lot of work with youth brands and young audiences in the travel sector lately and it's interesting to read the resentment a lot of them have for Ryanair, even though low cost has long been their overriding motive when looking to travel. The travel brands I've been working on (both new and established) are starting to see that it's becoming less about low cost alone for this audience, with more of them wanting a bit more for their money, and they're prepared to pay for that. You only have to read the online discussions on youth travel websites about Air Asia's longhaul services to KL and Oz to see that a large proportion of them still prefer to pay more for a better quality product, even when cost is still a massive consideration.

Like I say - interesting times ahead at LBA. I don't think Jet2 will run, because if they run from Leeds then they're just avoiding the fight. If they can't fight it out at Leeds, then where else can they expect to fight it out and win against an airline that's got 34 bases and expanding? Ryanair will just hunt them down.

The up-side is that punters in the Leeds area are gonna benefit in the short-term. But short-term is not what the airport needs right now, ahead of critical expansion. People talk about the Jet2 monopoly at Leeds, but if they're killed off by Ryanair, then inevitibly a Ryanair monopoly will prevail, and rest assured they'll spit their dummies on a much grander scale should they not get their own way on future issues that aren't compatible with the objectives of Ryanair, but which may be in the interest of the airport and surrounding conurbations.

Personally, I think it's a shame that Ryanair have elected to go for the same routes as Jet2. Competition is great, but the airport's growth potential has been compromised compared to if Ryanair had chosen to try largely new routes. But it's a question of conflicting commercial objectives of individual airlines, rather than doing what would be best for the airport and area as a whole, which is unsurprising.

Ryanair is not the steamroller they once were, though. They've failed in quite a few expansions in recent years, so you never know. I for one will be watching with interest.

[INKJET]

Its swings and roundabouts, Jet2 aircraft are old (and getting older) and even with the best engineers in the world and the part support with it they will go tech more often than a new airframe, on the other hand Jet2 are generous with their luggage allowance compared with Ryanair, but you would be amazed how few pay attenion to that until its too late.

Leeds has long been a cash cow for Jet2 and they have opened Leeds up, but people want low fares and Ryanair don't get much lower, the only way MOL can make use of the massive over supply of seats/airacraft ordered is to see off other airlines and this will hit Jet2 profits.

If the goverment ever grow enough balls to part-privatise the Royal mail then Jet2 will get a bigger shock if DHL become part owner of RM

The selling of seats to other tour operators is all well and good for now, but if they come to rely on that business they will leave themselves further exposed.

Ryanair wil within 18 months probably have more movements in/out of Leeds than Jet2 unless Leeds has a very snow/foggy winter for which LBIA have not invested in, a 40 year old unimog snow plough is not what MOL will expect.

The best Jet2 can do is to be different and drop this one bit of hand luggage nonsense, flying a half full 757 to ALC won't make money and they will never drive their staff cost down to Ryanairs level

Time will tell, but good on Leeds for getting a new player

[ryan2000]

Shannon Airport in Ireland did a deal with Ryanair in 2005. Since then BA Regional, Flybe, Easyjet, Thompsonfly and Hapag Loyd Express all left. They even lost Aerlingus to LHR for a while. So watch out Jet2 ! Most people's first loyalty is to their pockets.

[757flyer]

Nothing to worry about.............with FR reputation for poor service and customer care this will be storm at LBA! Once a few diversions have happened ........or you cant drop your bag off and the aircraft leave without you and FR say "tuff Fcek...rebook" (at inflated prices) the good folk of yorkshire will soon vote with their feet.

This will prove to be similar to the runaway success FR have had at BOH.

People are waking up to rip off Ryanair and their appauling attitude to customers.

[super737]

Yeah but twenty year old 733s have far higher mx costs compared to the RYR 738s. So when those old aircraft go tech more often costs money on HOTACs and down time, plus when down route mx companies like to charge the highest price.

With a fleet the size of the LS one, I would say if a couple of the aule rust buckets went tech, their schedule would be gone.

[RedPortLeft]

Looking at FRs timetable for next summer it appears the Dublin service will be operated from Leeds, the morning departure at 6.15am and the evening one returning at midnight. That's the leisure traffic lost :D

[Leodis]

Super737 wrote:

"Yeah but twenty year old 733s have far higher mx costs compared to the RYR 738s."

What about the purchase cost of the FR machines? Are you forgetting that all these new aircraft need paying for?

[Runway 32/14]

I think a lot of LS's passengers will be hopping onto the FR flights leaving LS with their already half full aircraft even less populated!

Not really sure where you got your information on load factors from, but according to Wikipedia Jet2 load factors for 2008 were nearly 80%, now that is more than half empty...also didnt Jet2 announce profits already this year are 3x higher then last year at over £33million, seems to me that Jet2 are doing good business, and to be able to do that they must have good loads......and that is after a reduction in services and flights of over 28%:ok:

[galaxy68]

It may not seem like it, but LBA is in the UK for tax purposes. Has Michael forgotten that Ryanair and his pax can't afford the tenner airport tax?

[Based]

Ryanair's stance on the UK's APD is:

Ryanair announced its decision to temporarily freeze all growth at its existing U.K. bases from June 16, 2009 onwards. Ryanair plans to review the freeze of U.K. bases at the end of 2009; any changes in the announced policy will be dependent upon the recovery of the U.K. economy, the status of the U.K.’s APD tourist tax and any other relevant factors (such as airport growth incentives).

Does that answer your question?

[righthandrule]

I think a lot of LS's passengers will be hopping onto the FR flights leaving LS with their already half full aircraft even less populated!

Half full aircraft?! You ever flown with Jet2?! I have never seen a Jet2 757 go out with less than 200 passengers on it, and I check them in every day. You guessed it TFS yesterday had 228 on it, (That a/c was 228Y - nightmare to check in but hey it was packed!). PMI had 230 on it (That a/c was 232Y) The GVA had 146 on it (148Y) the KRK had 148+9 (148Y!!) .... You get the drift?! The only routes that go out with less than 100 pax on are BFS and DUS & NQY but these vary hugely, one day can have 140 pax going to BFS, the next day only 70.

Jet2 is at capacity at LBA, simply if they had more 757's - they would fill them no matter where they sent them. Ryanair will open up more capacity, on certain routes but it isn't going to have a negative effect on Jet2, Ryanair have the ability to create new passenger traffic, which is exactly what they wil do at LBA. You also have to bear in mind that around 1/4 of Jet2's passenger traffic to the likes of AGP/PMI/TFS etc are sold through Travel Agents/Tour Operators. Jet2 are here to stay at LBA and I hope they win, Ryanair were not interested in LBA to start with, Jet2 paved the way for growth and made LBA what it is. The Airport directors know this, and yes it has come as a bit of a shock how Ryanair are tredding on Jet2's footsteps but Jet2 are stronger then all the critics think on here.

Per passenger flown Jet2 is more profitable than Ryanair, Jet2 making £9.14 profit per passenger, Ryanair making €8.51 profit per passenger. Let the battle commence!

[wawkrk]

righthandrule:
I absolutely agree with your well written posting.
I have used Jet2 maybe 60 times or more to a variety of destinations besides my regular trips to work. The flights always appear full. I would like to know just where some of the posters are seeing all these empty seats.Are these people regular travellers? I doubt it very much. Maybe they can enlighten us.

[Facelookbovvered]

Sadly all airlines are following Ryanair down market, why because they fill aircraft! if any of you think that the effect at Leeds (for Jet2) will be anything other than negative you are IMHO living in Lala land.

Ryanair does what is says on the tin, it gets from A-B for little money, Jet2 add on's are no diffrent to any othe LocO and more over they can't afford to be.

Whilst i understand people with a vested interest (Jet2 employees) think that it will be good to see the back of CHAV's, guess what their money is as good as anyone's! and a lot of very savy business men will use Ryanair for short flights

This will force Jet2 to raise their game, as for the clowns who talk about 757 full to the med, well of course they will be, its the peak season dummy!! and if you want to go to the med from Leeds then at the minute Jet2 are the only show in town, that could never last and to compare LBA with BOH is frankly an insult to the good people of Leeds

Ryanair are here to stay, get used to it, they wont go bust, they wont go away and they wont crash aircraft into tChevin either, they will increase pax choice at Leeds they will lower Jet2 prices and they will open new routes and create jobs......

Sure you'll see the police at the fee's office calming pissed off customer, but hey guess what Jet2 have had a few of those as well remember the £30 for the little girls Teddy (hand luggage)

[righthandrule]

We are not going to agree on this discussion, but regardless of what everyone is saying about Jet2, they are a stronger player than people think, they have a very good product, much better than some scheduled airlines. They have proved over the last year that they are highly profitable for their size and they fill aircraft. Look what happened at MAN with Jet2, they started a load of routes that they were unable to compete on, they reduced the flying programme to concentrate on routes that they made a profit on, and now are building back up the base to be highly successful.

Jet2 have dramatically reduced their cost base this year, I won't go into details as I do not think it is an area that should be discussed in public but Jet2 can compete with Ryanair, they will compete and they will survive. I can see that certain routes will face the chop by Jet2 but they have dropped a handful of routes each year but each time announce further routes which have proven to be a huge success. I have spoken to PM since the Ryanair announcement and as far as he is concerned he will NOT let O'Leary win.

No matter what anyone says about Jet2's aircraft being old, who cares?! Jet2 fly their aircraft profitablly and at the end of the day that is the bottom line. Most of the 737 have had a cabin revamp and the 757s are in the process of getting very nice new seats, aswell as two more aircraft getting winglets this coming winter. Passengers do not care about what the aircraft is like aslong as they get to where they are going safely. If anybody gets to fly on G-CGET (12 year old ex bmi baby leased in a/c) then fly one of Jet2's G-CEL* aircraft (24 year old) you will see a MASSIVE difference. Our old birds win hands down.

[14 loop]

There appear to be alot of definitive opinions on winners and losers on this Jet2vRyan battle at LBA. (There's even more of this nonsense on the Ryanair thread, albeit with the odd bit of well reasoned thought) which I invite you to read, digest and for the most part...excrete! I think it's a very close call and until Summer 2010 comes along we won't really know.

Waiting for some of the more respected LBA posters on PPRuNe to come out of the shadows and post on this thread....(they know who they are), but in their absence thus far, I suspect that Jet2 will tinker with their advance plans for next Summer re exact frequencies on routes etc, but overall there is likely to be a coexistance, as each operator finds the measure of each other and the relative price elasticities of their target markets settle.

As Parkin & Hallwood at LBA have said, their target is the leakage west from the natural LBA catchment; to quote the idiots that think this is the end of Ringway...it is not, but it should certainly help to stem some of the flow.

What nobody has asked.....how will these additional pax be accommodated during what is set to be a rather intense bit of construction at LBA during 2010? At least the 2 based RYR machines will be on fairly intense schedules, meaning earlier starts, later finishes (than Jet2) and probably not coinciding with the current peak pax flows (I estimate both RYR machines will have left LBA c0600). Nevertheless a question.....

[Illuminated Windsock]

Yes I agree it is great news for the airport, but as 14 Loop points out all the extra passengers and the construction of the new terminal front. It will be very challenging times ahead whilst all this is going on.

[righthandrule]

Apparently Check In Hall B is to close over the winter, with Jet2 in Hall A with all the other airlines. Wether this has something to do with the start of the new terminal is anyones guess.

[F.O.E.]

I know the publicised launch of the new ryanair base says 2 aircraft but just checking their website for the 9th of April.....

Depart: Leeds Bradford*06:30 Arrive: Murcia*10:25
Depart: Murcia*10:50 Arrive: Leeds Bradford*12:45

Depart: Leeds Bradford*06:55 Arrive: Faro (Algarve)*10:00
Depart: Faro (Algarve)*10:25 Arrive: Leeds Bradford*13:30

Depart: Leeds Bradford*06:15 Arrive: Dublin*07:15
Depart: Dublin*07:40 Arrive: Leeds Bradford*08:40

that looks like three so happy days for the good people of Yorkshire, better deals and even more choice!!!!

flyingonempty

[firstchoice7e7]

"£30 quid for the little girls teddy (hand luggage)"

That was easyjet at GLA

:rolleyes:

[galaxy68]

Based... my comments were tongue in cheek. However, its less than 2 months since the freeze and mid August is nowhere near the end of 2009. I often find that RYA's comments should be taken with a bag of salt! Like the 140m investment in LBIA and 1000 jobs created!

Still Ryanair will have done their homework and to be sure they have got a good deal from the airport. The bottom line is they will want to make a profit, so why come to LBA and compete with Jet2. The answer is that there is more than enough demand for both operators. A recent study by the CAA showed that 3.7m pax per annum, who live in the LBIA catchment area, flew from other regional airports, with 3m of them using Manchester. Surely it is this market that Ryanair is aiming at, rather than Jet2.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Galaxy68,

Ryanair don't do peaceful co-existence with direct competitors. It is (sadly) fanciful to suppose that they will not target the Jet2 customer base from LBA. Where Jet2 has built up a market, Ryanair will be very happy to cannibalize it, and Ryanair know that many leisure travelers are not brand loyal. As you suggest, Ryanair can expect to pick up some customers who would otherwise fly from neighbouring airports - they are fair game too. But Jet2 has a bloody battle on its hands at LBA, be under no illusions about that (PM won't be). And Ryanair is holding the aces.

Cheers, SHED.

[TSR2]

and to be sure they have got a good deal from the airport

I am certain they did, but the big question is 'Is Ryanair's deal considerably better than Jet2's deal'. If it is then I would be really pi$$ed off if I were Jet2.

[galaxy68]

Shed, Ryanair have the benefit of size and maybe cheaper airport fees for awhile. Jet2 has 1st mover status, ie they have existing clients, some degree of loyalty and know the market well. With so many based aircraft they can arrange their flight times to better suit the pax. Their old a/c mean that their cost base is probably lower than Ryanairs, especially when you consider that they are more diversified, selling seats to tour operators, flights for royal mail, a large charter operation and a holiday company.
Ryanair may well not want a bloodbath, for the reasons I've outlined above. Just because they have a few aircraft based doesnt mean that there will be two dozen soon after. They simply want somewhere they can operate and be profitable and I think with LBIAs large catchment area there is plenty of room for both.

[super737]

GALAXY68 lol, Cheaper to operate an old aircraft? Funniest thing Ive heard today. Once ryr move in and sell the routes at £1 plus taxes all of those faithful jet2ites will simply be checking in online and carrying hand luggage only which fits the dimensions.

[JetRob]

I know all the talk is about Ryanair getting there 34th Base in Leeds.

But does anyone know anything about this PIA, there is currently a "rumour" that there going to bring a 777 into Leeds instead of there regular A310.

[harrogate]

JetRob

Go back a few pages. It's all there.

[SASfox]

A few changes for the TC programme this winter and next summer. LPA has been dropped for the winter (Apart from over Xmas) and replaced with FUE. MIR will also run into mid Nov and start again from Mar 10. BJV will start in Apr with the DLM again. As for the Summer HER has gone (They have seats with LS now) on Tuesday's and replaced with AYT.

[wawkrk]

It was only a short time ago when Ryan were using 732's.
I wonder what the difference in operating cost is between Jet2 already paid for aircraft and Ryanair still paying. They both have maintenance costs but Jet2 will need to spend more.

[Based]

Based... my comments were tongue in cheek. However, its less than 2 months since the freeze and mid August is nowhere near the end of 2009. I often find that RYA's comments should be taken with a bag of salt! Like the 140m investment in LBIA and 1000 jobs created!

I understand where you are coming from in that Ryanair will always choose to make statements which paint them in the best light possible. They also make them in a way that they know what the media will grab for headlines. However, I'm not sure about having to take these with a bag of salt, maybe just understand them better.

Yes August is nowhere near the end of the year and that's why they still haven't reviewed their growth freeze at existing UK bases. They never made a statement saying they wouldn't be opening any new UK bases this year.

The $140m investment figure is based on Boeing's prices, well Boeing's 2008 advertised prices for a new 737-800 are actually $72.5m-$81m. I assume you feel they should quote the actual price they paid? I'm not sure that this would be any more relevant and it certainly wouldn't make good commercial sense!

In terms of the 1000 jobs created, at the risk of being lambasted for repetition, I believe it's as valid an estimation as any given that it's far from being an exact science. Here's a link I posted earlier to an estimation by a number of aviation sources across Europe, observed by the European Commission, in which they actually estimate 4,000 jobs per 1 million passengers! http://www.eraa.org/intranet/documents/14/427/061005fastfacts.pdf

Two ryanair aircraft or Three???

While Ryanair often release conflicting schedules that are then tidyed up at a later stage, in this case it does seem possible that they'll base a 3rd aircraft. As the schedule stands at the moment, the 4 x weekly Faro flights and 2 of the 14 x weekly Dublin flights can't be operated with 2 aircraft fully utilised on the other routes.

[pploony]

Old news,yes,but as I understand it the PIA 777 is a definite,subject to the turning 'D' at the 32 end being strengthened.Strange that,obviously it must have deteriorated since the last 747 visited?!

[EuroChallenger]

As a regular flyer, I am in the fortunate position of being within 90 mins of Leeds/Bradford, Doncaster, Humberside, Manchester, East Mids and even Birmingham. I book my flights according to price and generally have no brand loyalty. However, in the case of Leeds, the problem for me is access to the airport. It's either a fast, albeit longer run via the A1 and A658 or the shorter, but slower run via Leeds or the Leeds ringroad. Compare that to East Midlands or Birmingham, and it is easy to see why so many South Yorkshire folk head for those airports. A rail link would probably help.

[INKJET]

Ryanair don't need to base a shed load of aircraft at Leeds, remember they have 33 other bases, a few aircraft based will help them when it comes to winter and they can set off to Dublin rather than holding or diverting,
inbound by time the med based stuff is inbound the weather has normally improved. It will only be a matter of days before a Ryanair aircraft turns up with bye bye Jet2 and on pricing they will go for the jugular, they don't need to take all Jet2 traffic, they just need to make the flights (that Jet2) operate at a loss.

Its a cruel world dog it dog and all that but Ryanair have no choice they have too many aircraft coming into an over supplied market, something has to give and they have clout and cash

[Runway 32/14]

Its a cruel world dog eat dog and all that, but Ryanair have no choice they have too many aircraft coming into an over supplied market, something has to give and they have clout and cash

Well if that is truely the case, why cant Ryanair moth ball some aircraft, or stop buying new once that are mortgage to the hilt.

Having "too many aircraft" is down to bad management and forward planning, but it sounds like "Bull poo" to me, as O'leary is only basing a couple or three aircraft, so how is that too many!!! where do some people get their facts from or these very strange ideas:confused:

It will only be a matter of days before a Ryanair aircraft turns up with bye bye Jet2 and on pricing they will go for the jugular, they don't need to take all Jet2 traffic, they just need to make the flights (that Jet2) operate at a loss.

Why would anyone ever want to fly with an airline that is hellbent on destroying another airline, if what you are saying has any sense in it, once "Jet2" have been forced out by Ryanair, then Ryanair would have the full monopoly at LBA and that would lead to Ryanair increasing their prices....

Sound absolutely riddiculous to me, besides, jet2 are alot healthier and stronger than some people think.
I would hope that the owners of LBA would expect and demand fair play between rival airlines, and i would hope that they too could be as loyal and rewarding as Jet2 have been for LBA, and wouldnt allow a new boy on the block to push their weight around.......:cool:

[Runway 32/14]

Ryanair and other low-cost airlines are more expensive on some short-haul routes than British Airways, an investigation by The Sunday Times has found. A survey of flights to popular European destinations by the newspaper identified 10 on which it is more expensive to fly with Ryanair than BA, because BA includes as standard many of the services for which the low-cost airline charges extra.
The Sunday Times compared prices for return flights by seeking the lowest fare available on the day of travel and then adding the basic cost of checking in 15kg of baggage and priority boarding so that families could sit together. Budget airlines now have so many extra charges for basic services that they can add up to far more than the advertised ticket price.
A passenger checking in 20kg of luggage for a return flight with Ryanair, paying for priority boarding and buying a snack and drink would pay an extra £194. easyJet, by contrast, provides the same services for an extra £31, while BA includes the cost of checking in a 23kg bag, reserving seats, debit-card booking and snacks and refreshments.
While for most routes low-cost airlines remain the cheaper option, the survey suggests full-service airlines are beginning to fight back. In three cases BA flights were cheaper outright. In the seven others extra fees, such as charges for checking in a bag or processing payments, made Ryanair’s prices up to 50% higher for passengers who chose those services. easyJet was more expensive than BA on four of the journeys.

[commit aviation]

The Jet2 S10 schedule was on sale before the Ryanair news broke. Compared to this summer it appears they have reduced flights on many routes.
Bridgepoint have always stated their intention to grow the airport to 5m passengers and some of that growth needs to come from other carriers. I think Jet2 may have been a little foolish if they thought they would be allowed to maintain their monopoly long term.
More new destinations would of course be good but there is demand for the key bucket & spade routes that remains unsatisfied at Leeds.
As for a bloodbath: There is no benefit to the airport in replacing one near monopoly provider with another and whilst market forces will play a part I strongly believe there is capacity for both carriers on these key routes.
Interesting times ahead!

[Runway 32/14]

Jet2 slam Ryanair over fees

14.08.09 (UK Airport News)
Jet2 has responded to Ryanair's announcement that it will launch a base at Leeds Bradford Airport next March by releasing a no-holds-barred negative campaign about its rival, highlighting its rival's surcharges. Sporting the slogan 'Don't get robbed', the campaign depicts a cartoon robber carrying a swag bag emblazoned with Ryanair's blue and yellow colours.
The campaign details the differences in the two airline's extra charges, noting that a 22kg baggage allowance costs £7.99 with Jet2 while ‘other airlines’ charge £115. The campaign also compared check-in fees between the two airlines, with Jet2 offering free online check-in and charging £3 for airport check-in. At Ryanair, checking in online costs £5 each way – a fee which rockets to £40 at the airport. The advert warns: ‘Don't be fooled by other airlines. You will be robbed. For a cheap flight with transparent pricing ... book with Jet2.com.’
Philip Meeson, chief executive of Jet2's parent company Dart Group, told the Yorkshire Post he wanted to highlight Ryanair's hidden charges. He said: ‘It's a myth, their low prices. People often find we are competitive and cheaper.
He also questioned Ryanair's tactics of ‘mirroring’ its routes – with Jet2 already serving nine of the 14 new routes Ryanair is launching. He said: ‘They are doing quite a lot of the sunshine destinations that we do. It doesn't seem to have a lot of imagination. It's not great for the environment to have two airlines flying on the same routes from a regional airport.’
Ryanair has not yet responded to the campaign.

[Falcon666]

They cant respond-Its the truth plain and simple!

[benish]

Well PM has already told a lie.
Ive just booked a flight and was charged £6 return for online check in. It was £18 for airport check in.
I didnt pay for online check in 2 months ago when I flew Jet2.

Anyway, I can imagine Ryanair's response to be something down the lines of a slogan painted on a plane!

[apaul]

It is certainly true that Ryanair will rob you if you let them. Another element for passengers to consider is that quite a few of the Ryanair flights involve early departures or late arrivals which will mean hotel, parking or taxi costs which will negate cheaper fares. One problem with the Jet2 campaign is that it itself does not have clean hands when it comes to extra charges and transparency.

[Standard Loading]

Just to add something else to the thread, according to a friend of mine who works for TCX OPS, TCX are likely to bring in an A330-200 either over this winter season or next summer season to cover some extra charters.

Now wether this is to replace the annual TOM Bridgetown service I don't know, but it would be nice to think we could have more than one Charter Airline offering different destinations from LBA wouldn't it....

SL

[Runway 32/14]

according to a friend of mine who works for TCX OPS, TCX are likely to bring in an A330-200 either over this winter season or next summer season to cover some extra charters.


It would be nice to see a few more Wide Bodies at Leeds, I hope TCX do bring in this new aircraft........:ok:

http://i30.tinypic.com/332uelz.png

[leisurelad]

Having just done a quick comparison. Here is what i find.

Jet2:
LBA-PMI 12MAY10 / RTN PMI-LBA 19MAY10
£167.10 for 01 Adult paying with a debit card / 01 bag and online check in

Ryanair:
Same route and dates
£50 for 01 adult paying with a debit card / 01 Bag and online check in

Now, I know jet is probably the better airline and they do have much better flight times but when you save yourself £100 for flying later in the day and only taking 15kgs hold and allowed 10kgs hand luggage.
WHAT WOULD YOU CHOOSE !!!!!

Take a family of four and the savings are huge. I am not a ryanair fan to be honest but if the price is right then brand loyalty does not come into the brain.
Leeds clients are always out for a bargain, i don't want that to sound funny but they like to shop around for the best deal and no matter how good Jet2 are, Jet2 have to compete.

On the 19th May for the same route then there isn't alot of difference but if they are looking for the best deal and are flexible with the dates, then people will go looking for the cheap fares.

Thanks

[EXS258]

Leisurelad, i have to agree with you, im sure most people will be out to grab a bargain and thats what Ryanair will be looking to tap into. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread the only Loyalty people from Yorkshire in general (myself included) is with their wallets. even if you've flown with jet2 on your last 5 summer holidays, and you see a cheaper fare with RYR of course its going to make you think and possibly book with them instead.In terms of baggage, I recently went on holiday to spain and flew with them, although 15kgs doesnt sound a lot, my friend and I took quit sizeable cases and we filled them, still only came to about 13kgs so youv'e got plenty of weight there.

[wawkrk]

So the bottom line is, even if Jet2 gave all their profits back to their customers, they would still be more expensive.
No answer to that I suppose except to close the company because it does not make any sense to continue if all fares are booked on price only.

[EXS258]

I think thats a bit strong, Jet2 have done a lot for the LBA in recent years and probably will continue to for some time, like their popular package holidays, big expansion routes wise. i just think its good that they finally have some competition on the popular routes like PMI, IBZ, MJV, AGP ect. i think its just going to be a waiting game and see what happens when Ryanair finally start operations here.

[wawkrk]

I was actually being sarcastic.Companies need to make profits to exist and provide a good service. I was not referring to any particular previous postings but some pax expect the airlines to carry them free of charge.
I remember travelling to Malta 25 years ago and it cost more than it does now in pounds,

[EuroChallenger]

Well as I have said in another thread, it would be so nice to have a fare that you see, is the faret hat you pay.

"Malaga, £75 one way including check in, payment by card, luggage" etc. How simple is that?

Surely that is the way forward. It is so difficult to compare prices at present.

[JetRob]

I do agree with you with the current pricing, it is difficult to choose.

But if you look at what leisurelad said, then i'd have to say Ryanair are considerably cheaper at this stage.

Ryanair could what be Jet2 need to become a better airliner, a little bit of competition goes along way in my opinion. :ok:

[wawkrk]

So Jet2 made about 30m profit. Divide this by say 4m pax.
If they reduce all fares by 8 quid, they go into the red.
Will a reduction of 8 quid stop them from being accused of being too expensive and pax being ripped off.I think not.So they must make other cost cuts to be more like Ryanair and no longer like Jet2.
I think they have a very good business model and they deserve support for what they have done for LBA and local travellers.It will be a sad day if they fail but they could if they respond to accusations of ripping off pax when they are treading such a fine line.

[righthandrule]

Yes, but its swings around roundabouts. Strange how out of the 31 Jet2 flights from LBA to PMI in May you chose the most expensive to compare with Ryanair.

Blow me! LBA-FAO Return with Ryanair £140, Shock Horror Jet2 ONLY £79!!! :eek: (And yes thats 22kg luggage with Jet2 as apposed to 15kg with Ryanair) and to add into the equation .. 33" legroom with Jet2 on the 757's (Thanks to the lovely new seats being rolled out across the fleet) and a late lunchtime departure from LBA, rather than having to get to LBA at 5am with Ryanair. I know who I would choose..

Ryanair are always going to be cheaper than Jet2 on some days and vice versa, what good does making price comparisons do? Ryanair's LBA-ALC has had no effect on Jet2's passenger figures, same goes for LBA-BCN. As it has already been proved on these two routes, price (so far) has not been a governing factor. Quite simply LBA has a massive catchment area, Jet2 are at capacity from LBA, Ryanair will simply take passengers away from MAN, not eat away at Jet2's numbers. The crtics don't believe this, but the statistics speak for themselves.

[backtrack_32]

I and 3 others recently flew with j2, outbound was AE, we was lucky, as we have contacts at LBA we got row 12 been the bulk head exit rows. On the return leg we had to go on AI, and a slot out of PMI in 35 oC heat, meant we had to sit with no personal aircon, just the crap aircon blown around the a/c which was about as much use as a chocolate fire guard. We are all average height and size and was sat there with our knees youching the seat in front. Ive travelled with ryanair before and muct say the sead comfort and leg room is far better than what is offered on j2.

[Jet2krazey]

but most 757s ive been on dont have personal air conditioning (air vents) dont know why this is! maybe was an optional extra, even AJ which is an ex Thomson aircraft doesnt have them.

With regards to the seat pitch only G-LSAC has had the new seats fitted all the others are to be done over the winter. The new design of the seats gives you an extra 2inches of leg room set at the standard 28in pitch, so you can still get 235 seats onboard and get the extra leg room, but Jet2 have taken out a row at the front to make 7x rows of extra leg room seats, with i think with the new seats makes 36in leg room. its amazing how much room is on that aircraft at the front now! well worth paying for the leg room!
Most charter airlines fly with the minimum seat pitch which is 28in, The worst 757 ive been on is TCX as their seats are big and chunky! comfy to sit on but so tight on leg room!

[Runway 32/14]

I thought Ryanair loaded pax like cattle....

[682ft AMSL]

The fact still remains that, according to the CAA, the 3 airports in Yorkshire and Humberside handled 4.2m passengers in 2008 and the 3 airports in the North West handled 26.8m. Which is why, even after allowing the usual PPRune talking points of transport, weather, strength of regional economies etc, a number of companies were prepared to invest £140m - £210m in the airport. They all thought the potential to attract local passengers that currently use other airports was big enough in financial terms to warrant the initial outlay and the investment in improving the terminal.

With the owners and management clearly bought into this principle of "big potential" and putting some significant cash on the table to prove it, it is naive to think they would leave themselves reliant and/or exposed to the fortunes of a single carrier. Yes, Jet2 have been the major factor behind the airport's growth in the recent past, but they don't run their business in a way which is designed to attract every last passenger heading across the M62 or down the M1. Nor would anyone expect them to. Increasingly they operate in a way which is very seasonal, sweating the business between May and September and being very conservative outside of this window. It works both ways of course, Jet2 may have started at LBA but they have established 5 other bases since. They too are canny enough to avoid putting all their eggs in one basket.

So once Bridgepoint put the new management team in place, they were always on the look out for new operators. I've no doubt Ryanair were always up there as a prime target for all sorts of reasons, not least because Ryanair have played key roles in driving a second wave at growth at a number of key regional airports. Liverpool, East Mids and Bristol, all got so far with one operator until Ryanair came in. You just don't get 4m - 5m passengers at airports like these with a dominant single operator, especially on the volume bucket and spade routes. It's wise not to ignore either the fact that the same key individual who brought Ryanair to BRS to compete with the well established Easyjet operation a couple of years ago has been instrumental in the Ryanair/LBA agreement. The LBA team aren't exactly entering new ground here.

I've no doubt there will be some interesting cameos along the way, but this isn't something the LBA management team have done in haste, nor is it something someone as long in the tooth as PM would not have been expecting. If the forecasts about the potential for steming passenger leakage is anyway near the mark, there should be plenty of room for both FR and Jet2, as well as others.

[commit aviation]

682ft AMSL

Excellent post! The point I have tried to make ....only yours was much better put!

Standard Loading:

1 A330 planned for BGI plus 1 return from BGI - in addition to the usual TOM flights.
I would be interested to know if TCX think they can operate direct. The slot is for a direct flight but all TOM 763s are planned for a tech stop in MAN again this winter. Different aircraft & loads / weather etc will play a part I know but don't have enough performance knowledge of the A330 to draw a conclusion.

[apaul]

When Ryanair has come into an airport served by Easyjet or vice versa there has been very little overlap of routes. Also both airlines are large and with substantial reserves. It is not the same situation as at LBA where Ryanair is clearly going after Jet2's most profitable routes. If the airport management is helping them to do this by letting them operate effectively for nothing (as Manchester has claimed Ryanair was demanding) I'm not sure the results will be beneficial in the long-term or whether you can rely on Ryanair to get a return on £140 million or more investment. It is more likely that Jet2 will want lower fees than Ryanair will accept higher charges.

[EXS258]

Does anybody know why a Sky Europe B735 is due into LBA from AMS today?

cant find any info anywhere, and doesnt seem to be departing today either?

[mmeteesside]

Appears to be one of the Jet2 733's that went to AMS earlier this morning helping out SkyEurope. ESK102/3P G-CELG.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

And there seems to be three (count them) Jet2 inbounds coming back via Manchester..... What's that all about?

[EXS258]

mmeteesside thanks for the info :ok:.
Yeah iv also seen these jet2 flights arriving into leeds when ther MAN flights?
have they operated into MAN first then posistioned over here?

[scamptonboy]

EXS258 & FRANKFURT COWBOY

Manchester was down to single runway operation for a wee while this afternoon, hence the 3 LS flights diverted in to LBA.

Scamps

[Runway 32/14]

Just heard this on the news ..that Ryanair are pulling all but one of their flights out of Manchester, due to "charges"..check out the BBC link

BBC NEWS | Business | Ryanair closing Manchester routes (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8205445.stm)

[LBIA]

Well it looks like Jet2 have now dropped plans to operate to Pisa and Krakow from LBA next summer

As I've just noticed on the jet2 site that both routes are not bookable after the end of this October. The Krakow route was on sale up until last weeks Ryanair announcement while the Pisa service was bookable for next summer until earlier this evening.

So it’s already MOL 2, PM 0.

Come on, where is Jet2's Yorkshire's fighting spirit gone? Hope they haven’t given up already…

[Ringwayman]

Perhaps the fighting spirit has come to the right side of the Pennines? 1 extra 737 and 3 new routes at Manchester.

if MAN has refused to be "prostituted" by charging less than £3 per pax for FR, it does imply LBA has offered this. How profitable having FR as a based airline is something I hope Bridgepoint have worked out.

[apaul]

Not so much giving up as flying more routes from Manchester and Newcastle and fewer from Leeds Bradford.

[righthandrule]

LBA Management's plan to increase pax figures has gone out of the window then, with Jet2 taking 2 aircraft out of LBA for next summer. Capacity wise LBA will be pretty much the same as this summer (loss of 1x733 & 1x752 and the addition of 2x738) plus a very annoyed Jet2.

I have a feeling Jet2 are going to be even more annoyed when the aircraft stand allocations emerge for next summer, stands 9, 10 & 11 earmarked for Ryanair. (Means nothing to anyone who doesnt know LBA, but for those who do..) I'd like to see the airport cope with at least 7 Jet2 departures at a similar time, all on bussing stands with only 5 busses. Whatever numpty who thought it was a good idea to get Ryanir into LBA without a terminal (or apron, or handing agent) able to deal with them needs a talking to! Ryanair already take preference now, like today Jet2 757 lands first, Ryanair 737 lands 15 minutes later, no guessing - the Ryanair bags were on the belt first resulting in the Jet2 passengers waiting an HOUR for their bags. Servisair need to get their act together, they are short staffed this summer so for everyone's sake lets hope they take on more people for next summer!! If only the Jet2 self handling included baggage!!

[Facelookbovvered]

Quick turn arounds are very important in the Loco model and its a lot easier to do that with a 738 than 757, at most ryanair bases the ground staff are on the ball, the GPU is plugged in before the beacons are off, APU shut down and pax all but shoved down the stairs. Its less important if you have a longer turn time, but yes the bags will be on the belt quicker, so you had a nice hoilday with jet2 a good flight and then your lasting memory is waiting an hour for your luggage, guess who you blame?

I find it ironic when people applause Man for not prostituting themselves to Ryanair at MAN but seem to expect Bridgeport to do the same for Jet2, there can only be one explaination, that most on here bemoaning Ryanairs arrival are Jet2 employee's/management crapping themselves

For everyone else it means more choice of routes and airlines, that they may fly to some of the same destinations so what? if that means that on some occasions i can catch an early flight with Jet2 but return on a later flight with Ryanair, then for the travelling public its a win win.

Everyone knows about Ryanair's extra charges, it may be sneaky but its not illegal or a fraud and Jet2 have more than a few extra's of their own these days, so sit back and enjoy. If Jet2 are so much better value than Ryanair they have nothing fear and neither do their employee's

More likely is that Leeds pax have become a cash cow for Jet2 to help fund/support their growth elsewhere

I think the first route loss will be bmi regionals remaining base unit if and when ryanair do Brussels South (i think its on the chop list from MAN) it can't be cost effective to support one based unit with engineering cover, all of bmi regional other small base ops have engineer support that cover their mainline ops and or baby

[STATSMAN]

Can the baggage hall cope, there are times in the day when it gets very full of people. Any delay in bags arriving will cause problems.

[Runway 32/14]

Can the baggage hall cope, there are times in the day when it gets very full of people. Any delay in bags arriving will cause problems.

Maybe this problem will be addressed with the terminal expansion, I would have hoped the LBA developers have already thought about it.....:bored:
After all they are supposed to be doubling capacity at the airport, so all other infrastructure needs to be inplace....:eek:

[righthandrule]

Facelookbovvered, I was more addressing the point that Ryanair get preferential treatment at LBA as it is, and the other airlines (Not just Jet2) suffer. I know that Ryanair have a quick turn around but Jet2 do also, we aim to turn around a 737 in 30 minutes and a 757 in 40 minutes.

It annoys a lot of people that Servisair will turn up to a Jet2 757, marshal it onto stand and get busses for the pax, then all of them sod off to do the Ryanair, once the Ryanair has pushed (some 25 minutes later) they come back to offload the bags from the Jet2 757, which now has a nice delay for the next flight. The situation should be that they should employ enough staff to handle both flights at the same time!!

It is beyond me why the airport regualry use one of the two airbridge stands at LBA for the evening Ryanair arrival, but don't actually use the airbridge. This happened last week, the KLM and Thomas Cook, aswell as an Air Malta A320 and Jet2 757 turned up around the same time. So the four airlines that actually PAY to use an airbridge, Stand 7 was used by the KLM Fokker and stand 8 (airbridge stand) by Ryanair. The rest were put on bussing stands/walk on stands and had a massive wait in baggage. (All the belts in 'use' but surprise surprise only baggage from Dublin was coming through)

Servisair are a joke at LBA at the moment, the merger with Aviance at LBA has made it even worse, there shouldn't be an order of priority over which aircraft get dealt with first other then which one lands first! Unless you witness this happening on a day to day basis you probably won't understand my comments, most of the staff at LBA (Including Servisiar) are not looking forward to Ryanair, the current terminal is under so much pressure already and with the demands Ryanair are putting on the airport (They are deamnding stands 9,10 &11, they are also refusing to use bussing stands 12-24, yet still want the airport to provide busses for walk on stands) next summer is going to be a complete joke. The airport really have let themselves down by letting Ryanair in at the moment, they are walking all over everyone with their demands already, yes Ryanair please come into LBA in two years when the nice new terminal is ready for use, just not now!

[Runway 32/14]

Righthandrule

You make an excellent point, and i have to agree with what you are saying......Why Bridgepoint are allowing themselves to be pushed around by an airline who obviously have no loyalty or care to airport or paxs is beyond me.......And it would have made more sense to have to groundwork e.i. terminal, apron, airbridges etc installed built and completed before allowing more airlines in, i know they want to expand, but why are they trying to do it all in one go, whats the rush, surely they should do one job at a time, and do it properly, with minimum fuss and less stress on the already strained working conditions....:bored:

[m3oml]

in my opinion there are one or two other ways in which ryr might not be so good for LBA.
1) ryr operate a strict one piece only hand luggage policy. this includes any purchases in airport shops. they enforce this to the extent that on a flight from EMA one morning not so long ago, i had to leave behind the bottle of water and newspaper i had just bought from smiths, as it would not fit in my hand luggage which was suitably rammed full to compensate for the paltry luggage allowance. result: people begin to stop buying anything from duty free or any other shops because ryr will not allow them to take it on board if it will not fit inside their cabin baggage.
2) this possible reduction in retail sales might be worsened further by ryr's insistance on pax being called to the gate long before the flight is available for boarding. As a former dispatcher i know the benefit of having your pax ready at the gate, but ryr in my opinion are excessively keen on this. result : the average passenger is sat/stood /cramped in the boarding gate nearly an hour before departure, when they could be browsing duty free, having a drink etc.
my basic point is not only do ryr want to drill airports into the ground, MAN being a perfect example, their policies can also affect an airport's other revenue streams.
it may be that jet2 are no pushovers when it comes to airport negotiations, but i suspect their intentions towards leeds bradford and its passengers are more honourable than simply wanting to put its competitors out of business. i for one will continue to try to support jet2 where i can

[Runway 32/14]

What happens when/if LS feel that they have no alternative but to move out of LBA, this would leave FR with a full monopoly at the airport....What happens then, when FR demand that the airport reduce it fee's, if the bosses at LBA say no...then FR will simply pull out and go somewhere else...leaving LBA with no airlines to operate with......what happens then, LBA would be as good as dead.......just a thought:uhoh:

I of course hope this never happens and that the airport continues in its growth.............but you just never know....LBA could be like it was before Jet2 Breathed life into the old place.......:oh:

[righthandrule]

I don't think Jet2 will ever up sticks and leave LBA, they have invested far too much into the place, it would be pretty crazy to leave the place when their HQ is there BUT I know exactly what you mean.

As for the deal that Ryanair have got, its nothing fantastic at all, and O'Leary has been public that they did not get the deal they were looking for. Jet2 have been treated very very well at LBA in certain aspects and I really hope this continues. However it was imperative that the new terminal was in place before Ryanair move in, and this is not going to happen. For passenger figures to grow by the rate the LBA management team want, they needed to get Ryanair in, but not for Ryanair to duplicate routes already served very well at the airport.

I believe that if Ryanair opened a base at LBA serving routes not already served, and routes that the airport has made public they are desperatly looking for - Frankfurt, Bremen, Madrid, Stockholm .. all Ryanair bases. This way they could have kept Jet2 happy with the wealth of routes they perate from LBA, and grow passenger numbers. I know Mr Meeson is very annoyed at the route duplication, but he is confident that Jet2 will win on many of the routes.

I'm not sure if it has been posted yet but Jet2 have also dropped PSA from LBA as well as KRK. I fear VCE may be next, but has PM has said, the city routes are performing rather poorly and his business model has changed to the core sun leisure routes, this has been backed up by Jet2 winning several large contracts with Thomas Cook recently, with Jet2 operating charters for TCX to HER, FAO, SSH, TFS and AGP next summer from LBA, allowing the TCX based unit to expand into new destinations. Jet2 also winning contracts over Viking Airlines at MAN with their new KGS, CFU (etc) routes. A very good way to minimise risk on new routes.

[INKJET]

i read somewhere at the weekend that 5 million pax a year is the magic number for regional airports, this was based on foot traffic for retail sales units in airports, i don't know the deals, but i would guess that in signing to take a retail unit the airport must have to give some undertaking on pax numbers to make the figure add up. I agree 100% wit RHR that the (Ryanair) policy on hand luggage demages retail demand, But Jet2 are also very strict on this as well.

The whole business is fast becoming a joke in terms of customer service and will invite the authorities to come in and set basic rules in their cack handed way

I think many are becoming fed up/bored with MOL and Ryanair, puts me off flying and Ireland in fact i'd rather catch the ferry, i tend not to shop at Netto or eat crap food, Waitrose is better, more importantly its the people around you, if its a choice of pissed chav's or not going to Dublin guess what i can go into Leeds or Wakefield and see plenty of pissed chav's with out getting on to one Mr MOL moving sheep pens

Posh ****

[righthandrule]

if its a choice of pissed chav's or not going to Dublin guess what i can go into Leeds or Wakefield and see plenty of pissed chav's with out getting on to one Mr MOL moving sheep pens


:D Love it! I wish someone had said that earlier!

[Runway 32/14]

Maybe pax's should boycott all FR flights.....
I dont trust MOL at all, he is a bully, All pax from LBA should only fly with LS, TCX, BE, BD, TOM..... Infact Any other airline apart from FR, I say they should go before they do irreparable damage to LBA...:\

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Haha, you've hit the nail right on the head there, your parody of the LBA Jet2 fanboys is perfect, nice one!!! :ok:

[beach_life]

Isn't this all a bit NIMBY syndrome. I'm not FR's biggest fan by any means but without them & EZY there would most likely be no Jet2 or as many of the other loco carriers as there are. West Yorkshire and surrounds should be deeply grateful for Jet2 but they surely effectively just copied the FR model in areas where FR were not operating. Everyone else can have Ryanair but we just want Jet2? real world people...

[Runway 32/14]

Jet2 effectively just copied the FR model in areas where FR were not operating.
LS do a better job than FR, If LS did copy FR's model, at least they didnt go into direct competition against them, where as FR have done just that, they have come in and copied LS's routes, FR are playing it safe with already trusted Bucket & spade routes...FR should have come in with something brand new and exciting...but they didnt:ugh:

[BKS Air Transport]

Nobody moaned when LS moved in on Amsterdam, Paris, Newquay and now Bergerac. Seems what FR is doing is fair to me. Anyway, operators fall over themselves to fly routes out of Manchester, with two or more airlines often flying the same route, so I am sure that popular routes from Leeds can cope with two, and if LS do have to pull some thinner routes, then there are still plenty of unserved leisure destinations from Leeds to consider. NAP, FNC and a number of Greek islands spring straight to mind.

On a different note, has LEI gone?

[A300BOY]

East Midlands has Easyjet, Ryanair and Bmi Baby so why shouldn,t Leeds have 2 low cost airlines ? Jet 2 have had a good long run with no competition and have done very little expansion at Leeds over the last 2 years only really route replacements and larger aircraft on certain routes. New routes these days are generally onc or twice weekly.:)

[simountain1]

I disagree on Ryanair being bad for Leeds it might make Jet2 sit up and take a look at its business model and learn them to treat customers like they should be treated.
As for Ryanair cancelling flights I was quite looking forward to my 3 night break in Barcelona until Jet2 decided to cancel the return flight.
After paying for the hotel I tried to change the dates but could not and everything else available was well out of my budget, so after loosing my hard earned money due to Jet2 schedule change they said they would change my booking to March, all I asked for was a free item of checked in luggage as compensation and it was a definate no "We have already changed your flights as a favour for you for the inconvenience"
So im out of pocket Jet2 wont reply to a complaint email sent to them. So which company is it that dont care about their customers? considering we have flown at least twice a year with then for the last 3 years!
Never again if they dont want to reply to me a loyal customer then as far as im concerned it will be Ryanair to Gerona which is better than ELPRAT for where we stay anyway
Just my 2 pence worth

[crewmeal]

Simountain1

Never again if they dont want to reply to me a loyal customer then as far as im concerned it will be Ryanair to Gerona which is better than ELPRAT for where we stay anyway

And you think Ryanair will be any better? I don't think their customer service is anything to write home about.

On a different point will Jet2 still be the 'Yorkshire's Airline or will that change to the County next door?

[Runway 32/14]

I was quite looking forward to my 3 night break in Barcelona until Jet2 decided to cancel the return flight.

When were you planning on going to Barcelona.......I have just "test" booked on line with Jet2 for a return trip to Barcelona, with no problems....

Is it/ was it only on selected flights.....:confused:

[Runway 32/14]

My brother is after buying one of those Virtual Radar box's....but he is un-sure which one to buy.
Does he go for the All new: Kinetic-Avionic SBS-1er
Or for the: AirNav Systems Radar box...

and why are they so expensive!!!!:{

[HOODED]

Runway 32/14, probably the wrong forum for this but I would reccommend the Kinetic SBS 1. As for price tell him to look on Ebay for an SBS 1 mk 2 or an SBS 1e as people do upgrade to the latest models and sell the older ones off. I have an SBS 1 and with a decent external Aerial it gives superb performance.

[Runway 32/14]

I will pass that information on...Thank You

[737 Speedbrakes]

HOODED

Which forum would you recommend please?

[Standard Loading]

Having re-read this thread, I came across a number of posts from Right Hand Rule (RHR) which range from being inaccurate to a blatant lie which does not reflect what happens in terms of service given to both FR and LS by Servisair and the Airport Authority, which I’m going to deal with in chronological order.

I have a feeling Jet2 are going to be even more annoyed when the aircraft stand allocations emerge for next summer, stands 9, 10 & 11 earmarked for Ryanair

Rumours at present, given the fact that the Airside Safety Unit (ASU – LBAs equivalent to Airside Ops) doesn’t have all of the airlines schedules so how can they plan aircraft parking and allocate stands already?

I'd like to see the airport cope with at least 7 Jet2 departures at a similar time, all on bussing stands with only 5 busses

Yes the busses are constantly in use however given the fact that there was a talk of a walkway all the way to stand 14 earlier this year, so why the Airport Authority won’t green light that I don’t know? Also its interesting for Jet2 to be saying there aren’t enough busses yet they are the same ones tying them up using them for a solitary passenger rather than applying some common sense and use one of their ramp cars to get them to THEIR a/c.

Ryanair already take preference now, like today Jet2 757 lands first, Ryanair 737 lands 15 minutes later, no guessing - the Ryanair bags were on the belt first resulting in the Jet2 passengers waiting an HOUR for their bags

Ok let’s deal with this a/c by a/c. After an LS 752 lands it can take up to 10mins before it’s chocked and Servisair can start getting bags off. Now an LS 757 can have between 170 and 220 bags on an inbound so we can safely say it can take 20 minutes before the first bags reach the belt. Even longer if the UK Border Force wishes to inspect the bags. And the last bag will not go on the belt for the next 15 minutes. So total time can be 40 to 45 minutes. For an FR 738 it can have anything from 20 to 120 bags, so half the bags half the time sounds like common sense to me?

If only the Jet2 self-handling included baggage!!

Don’t make me laugh, if Jet2 can’t even invest in its own Airstart Unit, and therefore having to call on Servisair to provide its Airstart Unit, why would it spend money on belt loaders, trolleys, tugs, training, oh, and not to mention getting DfT approval and all the gubbins that goes along with that?

It annoys a lot of people that Servisair will turn up to a Jet2 757, marshal it onto stand and get busses for the pax, then all of them sod off to do the Ryanair, once the Ryanair has pushed (some 25 minutes later) they come back to offload the bags from the Jet2 757, which now has a nice delay for the next flight

This is a lie if I ever heard one, under no circumstances has this ever happened, and nor will it ever happen, and I shall explain why. Every shift has approximately 10 to 12 teams, which varies due to temporary staff. Each team has two people to it so you can have 20 to 24 men plus a co-ordinator.

So what you are saying was that a 757 came onto a bus stand and 3 men (as 3 buses are needed for a 757) marshalled it onto stand, bussed the pax in, and then went to marshal the FR 738 in, grounded it, unloaded it, bussed the pax in, then re-loaded it and pushed it before returning to the LS 757 to unload it whilst the other 21 men did what exactly?

No what actually happened, known as the truth was 4 men were sent out to unload the a/c (2 for the front and 2 for the back) and three men on buses were sent out to bring the pax in, and two completely separate teams were responsible for turning the FR a/c.


most of the staff at LBA (Including Servisiar) are not looking forward to Ryanair

Work = Job = Money, simple eh?

[righthandrule]

Rumours at present, given the fact that the Airside Safety Unit (ASU – LBAs equivalent to Airside Ops) doesn’t have all of the airlines schedules so how can they plan aircraft parking and allocate stands already?

Airport Terminal Duty Managers words about the stand allocation, yes on the day ASU allocate stands on a day to day basis, BUT as part of the package Ryanair has negotiated with LBA they are given priority on stands 9,10 & 11. Much like bmi used to be on stand 7.

yet they are the same ones tying them up using them for a solitary passenger rather than applying some common sense and use one of their ramp cars to get them to THEIR a/c.


This happens because some of the more 'senior' shall we put it drivers only let a maximum of 60 passengers on the buses, yet others let 70+ on, so care to explain how Jet2 are meant to transport 140 passengers to an aircraft when one driver will let 70 on, then the next only letting 60 on. More to the point Jet2 pay Servisair to transport its passengers no matter how many busses are required so why use their own ramp vehicles that are been used for other jobs?

So what you are saying was that a 757 came onto a bus stand and 3 men (as 3 buses are needed for a 757) marshalled it onto stand, bussed the pax in, and then went to marshal the FR 738 in, grounded it, unloaded it, bussed the pax in, then re-loaded it and pushed it before returning to the LS 757 to unload it whilst the other 21 men did what exactly?


Scenario two weeks ago. LS 757 with 220 pax from Palma landed 10 minutes before the FR DUB, the LS parked on stand 13, the FR on stand 8. Two busses were sent to stand 13 for the 757, with the driver of the bus marshalling the aircraft onto stand. The driver then took the first bus back to the terminal, didn't bother to go back to the LS 757, but go to the FR on stand 8, shortly followed by the second bus. A third bus arrived at the LS 757 ten minutes later, as only one bus was sent to the aircraft the remaining passengers were disembarked through the front doors of the aircraft, the bus driver then deciding to stop taking any more passengers as he had been called to go get the remaining FR passengers from stand 9. Leaving 15 passengers still on the LS 757, after waiting ten further minutes the decision was made to bus the remaining passengers to the terminal in the Jet2 crew bus. Bags came and went for the FR Dublin, twenty minutes later the first bags for the LS 757 arrived. However some clever sod at Servisair decided to input the first bag times twelve minutes before they actually arrived - not a good idea when the Jet2 DM was WATCHING through the doors from baggage reclaim as she was EXTREMELY annoyed that the first LS passengers had been waiting 1 hour. She actually took a photo of the computer screen straight after showing first bag 22.15, the time in corner of the start menu showing 22.27. Two separate teams sent to both aircraft yeah?! The airport terminal Duty Manager thought that too ...

And don't get me started on Servisair parking GPU's in front of the front doors on 737 aircraft, especially when the ambulift is required to be used. You clearly have a bias, ive made it pretty obvious that I have a bias on the situation. But why would I discuss these occurrences if they didn't happen? What have I got to gain from lieing? Ryanair get preferential treatment at LBA, as i'm sure they do at most airports they serve, backing up the fact that now is not the right time to get Ryanair into LBA as quite simply it's bursting at the seams already, without any more debacles that are no doubt going to occur with the addition of based FR aircraft.