LEEDS 5

[Spotter LBA]

The recomendations from Leeds City Council have already been put into place with regards to cutting back the flights from 3 to 2 and the flights being brought forward. The only thing left now would be to change the aircraft to the 772. Will PIA do this???

[HOODED]

It's possible, the market was there for 3 weekly flights by A310 so a twice weekly 772 flight would cover the same amount of pax with some growth. The big question is could the 772 operate from LBA with a useful load? The 773 obviously can't given PK775/6 is a 773 at the moment post Ash Cloud and is having to operate ex MAN! Finding a free 772 could be a problem as the 6 they operate are 4 ERs and 2LRs, I suspect they are all fully utilised and therefore need some tweaks to schedules or leasing of an additional ac. I'd be surprised if they used the LRs as they would probably be better utilised on their longer runs. We will see!

[HOODED]

I'm hearing that PIA are in fact trying to secure some more 772s. JAL has been mentioned as a possible source, though these have different engines(lower power) than most of PIAs aircraft. I would have thought the 110/115 GEs PIA have currently would be better suited to LBA ops.

[SASfox]

RHO is dropped for next Summer but KGS makes a return after 18 years, last operated by SunJet (was it called Sunjet?) for Sunseekers Holidays. Everything else is the same really.

[HXdave]

yes, it was Sunjet that operated for Sunseeker Holidays. a while ago, someone kindly posted a link of the aircraft.


in fact, here is the link.......

Photos: Boeing 737-3Q8 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airliners.net%2Fphoto%2FSunjet-(Air-Foyle%2FBoeing-737-3Q8%2F0498429%2FL%2F&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pprune.org%2Fspectators-balcony-spotters-corner%2F400802-help-days-gone-past-please.html)

[DADDY-OH!]

Olton Pete


"...PIA are very safe..." Oh really? I suggest you go tell MAN ATC that!
:ok:

[EuroChallenger]

Had a nice flight out of and into Leeds last week. Very quick collection of luggage etc, in fact, from landing and parking on the stand to getting in the car, after collecting luggage and using the shuttle bus to the car park, the total time was only 24 mins! Great stuff, unlike my last trip at Manchester with over 70 minutes waiting for luggage!

Blackpool in a few weeks - might be even quicker!

[OltonPete]

DADDY-OH!

Ur what? Check my post 1001 - where do I mention the word "safe".

I was commenting on the fact that the 777 operation at BHX keeps
reasonable time, granted depending on the definition of reasonable I suppose.

I can think of one major non-weather delay in the last 12 months
but as for "safe", I have no idea.

Pete

[lbalad]

I flew with Ryanair yesterday on the 6 20 Dublin flight.We boarded the aircraft,taxied to end of runway,sat for a while then taxied back to the apron.

We got off the aircraft,and straight onto the other Ryanair plane,along with the cabin crew,once luggage transfered,off we went,just over an hour late.

This has never happened to me before,and was just wondering if anyone knew the reasons for it.An announcement was made by the flightdeck,but it was inaudible.

As a side note,I notice that the Airport bus to Leeds has changed the time of the last bus.It now operates 21 55,22 55,and the last one 23 45.

[BroadwayAce]

Olton Pete

Being involved with the handling of their crew's ex BHX, totally agree with your review and comments. On time performance for this last year has been very good indeed. Just a slight sad we could not continue with the translantic transits from a few years ago when we had some 14 flights (in and out) a week :*

Anyway, there is currently extra flight this Monday, at the moment scheduled 12:30 arrival, 14:30 depart:D

[rpmac]

I was on the return Palma LBA flight yesterday which arrived in Palma an hour late and the crew explained the reason to be an aircraft change, but gave no clue as to what the problem was. In the end it was a good flight back and a very smooth transit from aircraft to car park shuttle bus.

[righthandrule]

This has never happened to me before,and was just wondering if anyone knew the reasons for it.An announcement was made by the flightdeck,but it was inaudible.

A combination of poor organisation on Ryanair's behalf and no communication from Ryanair to Servisair. You were boarded onto the wrong aircraft as Ryanair failed to notify of the aircraft swap, once it was realised that the wrong aircraft had the Dublin passengers, bags and crew on it was already taxiing out. As you said, you were then brought in and taken off one aircraft and put onto the correct one. In the mean time 130 Nantes passengers were being held watching it all happen, in the end they were kept up at Gate 5 (Designed for no more than 80 passengers) for nearly an hour.

An extremely :mad: set up which was thought highly comical from airport staffs point of view, of course not in the passengers mind though! These silly little errors seem to happen a hell of a lot considering its a small base with only two aircraft!

One Nantes passenger summed it up perfectly "Well thats Ryanair for you". Couldn't have put it better myself! :ok:

[737 Speedbrakes]

Righthandrule, I'm still can't understand why they had to swap. What is the difference between the two aircraft?

[POL1W]

They probably wanted the other aircraft in Dublin to carry out maintenance. It has to be done sometimes.

[EXS258]

POL1W is correct. we sometimes operate aircraft to our larger bases (DUB, STN ect) then leave it there then take one of theirs , usually for maintenance, which to do it in 25 minutes without a delay is quite a challenge!

[Chitty]

yer my brother was the depacher for the leeds bradford to nantes and he said the dublin plane was needed on the nantes flight because the plane which was go to nantes had a problem with one for the full tanks to i was needed in dublin for repare so thay had to change it at the last minute

[737 Speedbrakes]

I understand those kind of reasons! What I can't figure is that an OFP (Operational Flight Plan) would have been produced for a particular registration of A/C. (By Ryanair Ops), so the crew would accordingly prepare this Aircraft. How can an aircraft then get to the end of the runway and be called back???

[yeo valley]

as was said in a few posts back.thats ryanair for you.

[32threshold]

Chitty is correct, there was something amiss with the fuel tanks and the aircraft couldn't carry enough fuel to get to Nantes. Dublin was in its range and of course once there it got the required maintainance. Obviously Ryanair Ops should've been aware but these things happen. And yes righthandrule, Jet2 are just as bad, changing LIRFs last minute and not informing the baggage lads in time causing delays and not to mention your very own secret aircraft changes that no-one outside Jet2 Ops knows about...

[karlee alpha]

(Quote from mooncrest) I'm at a loss to see what, if anything, Bridgepoint have done to enhance LBA since they bought the place. Apart from building yet another long stay car park a mile from the terminal I haven't seen any changes.

I'n beginning to agree with those folk who say that the wrong company bought LBA. Sadly, I fear there will be little significant investment before Bridgepoint decide to do a runner. We'd probably be close to getting a brand new terminal now instead of the fudge that is the latest attempt to do up the existing one. Incidentally, when is this going to happen ? Just wish they'd taken a leaf out of BHX's book circa 1984 and started again when it was obvious the old terminal couldn't be expanded or improved any more. But no.

Amazing how an indeterminate amount of bhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifg about behind the scenes results in a vast amount of nowt front of house.





I have to agree with Mooncrest, Leeds city council screwed the airport by going for the highest bidder and not for the good of the city of Leeds, the sooner this bunch of jokers go and a proper company can come in the better

[682ft AMSL]

The planning certificate for the terminal development was granted on December 15th 2009. The airport has therefore had just over 4 months in which to have started work. Had they done so, the initial work would have coincided with the summer season when the airport is around 3 times busier than the winter and the management are trying to embed a new Ryanair operation. Their working assumption is to defer the start of work until the end of this summer season, although nothing is confirmed.

The real delays in this project were caused by a combination of;

- the original terminal designs that were prepared by consultants acting on behalf of the local authorities when the airport was being sold, had to be reworked due to issues with internal passenger flows
- when these issues had been addressed and a planning application was submitted, the planning office in Leeds committed to complete the process in 3 months. The actual time was 12 months

No doubt these were just as frustrating to the airport owners and management team as anybody else.

[EXS2592]

Jet2 are an alround better airline than RYR. Jet2 manage to organise their aircrafts maintenance, they dont get passengers on their aircraft, taxi to the runway, line up then taxi back to the gate. And make rubbish announcements to passengers, that my friends is poor customer service. Well done RYR, you have only been here 3 weeks!

[All names taken]

Although there are few publicly owned airports left, those councils that need to sell are legally obliged to sell it at what is described as 'best value' for the local ratepayers - and quite right too as they are the 'real owners'.
Whilst value could be defined in a number of qualitative ways, most take the safe view that it means price. Saying that a council 'screws the airport' is a bit irrational.
The private sector is not in the business of municipal pride - it is there to make a profit. Period. Sadly these days that tends to involve ripping off people to park and providing over priced shops rather than putting dots on the route map.
When the private company sells on, it will do so at the best price it can get - it is obliged to its shareholders to do so.

[LBIA]

Jet2 have this afternoon announced a new route from LBA to Bodrum in Turkey for summer 2011.

Once weekly Boeing 757 service will commence on Thursday, June 23rd 2011.

[Mooncrest]

In the absence of anything more interesting going on, a few frequency changes are on the cards:

- New "Delivery" service available at peak periods only on 121.8 Mhz

- Approach and Radar frequencies to be 125.575 and 133.125 respectively.
Goodbye to 123.75 and 121.05, after decades ! :{

All to take place sometime in July, subject to CAA approval.

[backtrack_32]

Reports of a light aircraft off the end of 32

[Chitty]

yer the plane is an cessna citation and the airport is closed my brother works at the airport and say the airport is closed untill 7pm to night

[LBIA]

Hi

BBC Leeds has the following on its website now regarding the aircraft accident this evening up at LBA.

Two rescued as aircraft overshoots Leeds airport runway

Two people have been rescued from a light aircraft after its engine caught fire and it overshot the runway at Leeds Bradford airport.

The Cessna Citation jet came off the runway at about 1750 BST on Monday, the fire service said.

A West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service spokesman said there had been a fire in one of the plane's engines.

He said crews had helped two people from the jet. Neither are thought to have been seriously injured.

The spokesman said: "We were called out to a Cessna Citation jet which had overshot the runway and the starboard engine was on fire.

"There were two people on board and our airport fire crews got them out."

[wawkrk]

Tomorrow, expect to see the Yorkshire Evening Post showing photos of the Tristar overun in the 1980's asking is the runway safe.

[Jonjo Air]

Regarding the frequency changes, I wonder why there is need to change the frequencies. 125.575 just doesn't have the same ring to it as 123.750. Will be interesting to see when "Leeds Delivery" is open.

Regarding 121.050 going to 133.125, I have never even heard this frequency active anyway. Anybody know what it is? I know its a Radar frequency, but is it a backup, or a SRA freq?

Thanks,
Jonjo

[Helen49]

You should have been around in the 60's and 70's when 121.05 was in use daily for radar talkdowns to half-a-mile from touchdown! [Tower was 122.30 in those days].

No ILS at all in the 60's and ILS on Rwy14 [albeit without glide path information] only arrived at LBA in the mid-80's].

Helen

[Jonjo Air]

Thanks, I never really knew what this frequency did! :)

I guess they are just keeping it as a standby frequency now.

Jonjo

[JetRob]

I never saw this plane come past on webcam. I saw the fire crews however and they responded very quickly.

I can understand them closing the airport, but i wouldn't have liked it if my flight would have been diverted.

[uklad007]

Diversions are a pain and LBA does suffer somewhat with them due to weather but I'd rather divert to MME or LPL which is where the only two diversions went I think than land on a runway where a plane is on fire at one end of it and once put out is a place of a formal investigation. Luckily runway incidents like this are few and far between and I think this is one time a diversion should be acceptable whilst the airfield is closed. Safety first, convenience second :)

[Leofric]

You should have been around in the 60's and 70's when 121.05 was in use daily for radar talkdowns to half-a-mile from touchdown! [Tower was 122.30 in those days]. If memory serves correctly, the 'new' frequencies came into use with the new Tower back in the Sixties. Initially 123.75 was a combined Tower and Approach frequency with Radar on request on 121.05. The separate Tower frequency of 120.3 was allocated but not used until a bit later.
In the old Tower, TWR/APP was 122.3 and Radar was 130.2

[Helen49]

Leofric, I do believe that your memory serves you well!
Helen

[POL1W]

New route to commence from LBA with Jet2 is Funchal. Commences Feb 14th, operating until November. A much needed and long awaited destination from LBA.

[SWBKCB]

What are Multiflight using the B.733 they've leased for?

[Jonjo Air]

The new frequencies are now operational, just heard two voices, either controllers or engineers on both 125.575 and 133.125, something along the lines of "Leeds Approach, 12345, 54321" and reading back there readability.

Will be interesting to see when Leeds Delivery is open!

Thanks,
Jonjo

[Setel Up]

Report on BBC 'Look North' that Ryanair will increase their presence at LBA with details given at a press conference later this morning.

Nothing showing on the Ryanair web site drop down menus to give us a clue, so the speculation begins!

Canaries ??

Ski ??

Setel Up :D

[Setel Up]

According to the LBA website, new winter Ryanair routes are Fuerteventura, Gdansk, and Weeze, with Gerona flights moving to the nearer El Prat Barcelona.

Setel Up

[holidaymax]

Ibiza, Limoges, Montpellier, Murcia, Nantes, Palma and Pisa dropped to make way.

Also to facilitate "growth" Ryanair have said that LBA have reduced charges - I'm sure Jet2 will be happy to hear this...

[Chitty]

i think ryanair are stuppid because dusseldorf weeze airport is about an hour away from dusseldorf city but with jet2 they fly into dusseldorf airport with is only about 15 to 30 minutes so i dont think the ryanair flight will last long

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Dropping med sun routes in favour of city and canary destinations is what you'd expect over the winter months, no great surprise this. Be interesting to see how the Weeze and Barcelona routes compare with Jet2 as has been said.

[Teevee]

In spite of where I am at the moment having flown from LBA I love the place and I absolutely love Jet2. But LBA got Ryanair because of the cheap charges and now they've reduced them even more .. and I can't believe MOL didn't have something to do with that. The trouble with Ryanair is they always seem to be cultivating links with other 'cheaper' airports, whether in the UK or more worryingly now, Europe. How far can any airport which has thrown its lot in so far and so cheaply with an airline go before enough is enough?

[lagerlout]

fairly uninspiring from Ryanair.... i am sure LBA must have been hoping for something better?

[Kimbob]

Can anyone explain how ( as the local news reported ) so many jobs have been created by Ryanair operating from LBA, I'm sure the news reader said 1000 jobs !! Any ideas ?

[potash]

Every airport FR goes into end up losing jobs other airlines lay staff off FR gets to be the dominant carrier then demands reduction in charges if they are not forth coming they up sticks and bugger off just like BOH now be warned LBA :=

[dwlpl]

Can anyone explain how ( as the local news reported ) so many jobs have been created by Ryanair operating from LBA, I'm sure the news reader said 1000 jobs !! Any ideas ?

They repeat/presume the 'industry standard' of 1000 jobs per one million passengers.

[Mooncrest]

Does anybody know what the hold-up is in getting the new Delivery position up and running ? We're now into the busiest time of the year when ATC needs this frequency the most and nowt appears to have happened yet, apart from 121.8 being allocated.

[Jonjo Air]

I was thinking the same thing. I thought they brought it in time for July and August, but all that we have now is a NOTAM:

Q) EGTT/QCAAS/IV/B/A/000/999/5352N00140W005
B) FROM: 10/07/01 10:18C) TO: 10/08/31 23:59
E) DELIVERY FREQ 121.800 MHZ NOT AVBL

Maybe a staffing or technical issue? I doubt it is that they are intentionally keep it out of action, during the busiest part of the year.

Something else I was wondering - does anybody know if stands are allocated to airlines at Leeds? Obviously at larger aerodromes A/O's are allocated terminals, just wondering if anything similar was in operation at Leeds.

Thanks,
Jonjo

[righthandrule]

Stands are allocated to make the poor infrastructure as efficient as possible, the ideal scenorio for the morning rush is:

Stand 6: KLM F70
Stand 7: Thomas Cook A320
Stand 8: Ryanair (not attached to airbridge)
Stand 9: Jet2 757
Stand 10: Jet2 757
Stand 11: Ryanair
Stand 12: Jet2 737
Stand 13: Flybe dash 8
Stand 14: Jet2 757
Stands 15-24 Jet2 737's

Bmi embraers and other inbound domestics use stands which come free once the above have departed.

[commit aviation]

Righthandrule

Close - the KLM usually goes on 5 overnight & the Flybe Dash8 on 6. :ok:

[LBA]

Apart from the weekend when the FlyBe does go remote :ok:

[Jonjo Air]

Thanks Everyone :ok:

[Jet22]

"Stand 6: KLM F70
Stand 7: Thomas Cook A320
Stand 8: Ryanair (not attached to airbridge)
Stand 9: Jet2 757
Stand 10: Jet2 757
Stand 11: Ryanair
Stand 12: Jet2 737
Stand 13: Flybe dash 8
Stand 14: Jet2 757
Stands 15-24 Jet2 737's"

Seem's a complete waste of the airbridge. Why not move Jet2 757 over to the airbridge, they other 757 jet2 along to stand 9 , then have both ryanair together on 10&11?

[commit aviation]

Both Ryanairs leave about the same sort of time on several days - 06:20 / 06:30 (albeit later for some routes - I recall 07:05 on some days.)
There is only 1 path to stands 10 & 11 so you couldn't board them at the same time.
Jet2 are not big fans of air bridges either so they happily use 9 & 10.
The 757 on stand 10 is usually the 08:00 AGP so the single pathway isn't an issue if there is a 06:30 or even a 07:05 departure on 11.

Now - if you'll excuse me, I'm off out to see if I can get a life! I'm pretty sure I had one somewhere...... :\

[LBA]

Also, the gates Ryanair like to use are 5 and 6/7 so they can hold the passengers which are perfect for 8 and 11 and gives them no probs with other flights boarding.

[Hull City AFC]

Is ther any new routes from Leeds Bradford next year that havent already been mentioned on here?

[Jamie2k9]

No it only the four Ryanair routes and the two Jet2 routes to Bodrum and Funchal

[bobleeds]

Understand LBA had a BA A320 in this afternoon from and back to London Heathrow. Can anyone advise what it was doing?

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Airport website showing two arrivals from Shannon with TAY flight numbers, are these TNT a/c and what gives with them? No departures though.. Dunno why, but I've thought it might be something to do with horses, York races and all that....

[commit aviation]

Correct thought:
horse movements to & from Shannon. Tuesday & Friday for the York races.
Details for departure were incorrectly loaded as an arrival hence the confusion!

[SASfox]

The Balkan ski flights to Sofia for this coming winter have been axed by the look of things. Not showing in the 2nd edition Balkan Ski.

[Runway 32/14]

Does anyone know why the LBIA web cam from multiflight is not working, i have not been able to go on it for a couple of weeks now!!!:mad:

[ILS32]

Runway 32/14

The web cam is working,.just tried it 5 minutes ago to check.There is a update for Quick Time player maybe that's your problem.

ILS32

[Runway 32/14]

Sorted the problem out.....the web site has changed from .com, to .co.uk

[JetRob]

What webcam are you using? Are you using the one i use for Leeds?

I use multiflight! Right across the runway from the main terminal gives good views of what on the stands near the terminal building.

If you use a different one, can you let me know?

JR.

[Adguy]

Can anyone tell me how well LBA has generally coped with passenger flow this summer?
I know the terminal is bursting at the seams, but on the few occasions I fly in and out each year it's usually a breeze.
Last Friday was a slightly different story though...

I flew back from AGP with Jet2, and we landed on schedule at exactly 15.00.
We parked on one of the furthest stands (not sure which one) and then were held on the aircraft for about 15 mins until coaches turned up.
Eventually the coaches got us to the terminal, but we weren't allowed off as apparantly there was no room inside the building!
Luckily I was on the first bus, so only had to wait about 5 mins, but the poor pax on buses 2 and 3 were held for quite a while, and it was pretty hot out there.

Once inside the terminal, the queue for UK Border was stretching all the way back to the entrance steps. Pax waiting to board a flight from Gate 10 have to cross that corridor, adding to the chaos even further.

It then took an age to get to border control, but all 4 desks were open and they seemed to be processing everyone pretty quickly.

Baggage reclaim was just a total mess. Bags were piled up all over the place, and you had to reach over them to get to the belt.

Anyway, it was about 16.15 when I finally got outside, which still isn't bad from landing to driving away.

Is this what it's been like all summer, or was it just one of those days?
I guess a couple of early or delayed flights were to blame, but I felt really sorry for the staff having to deal with so many grumpy frustrated people.
Hopefully the terminal extension (if it ever gets built) will sort things out.

[Runway 32/14]

What webcam are you using?

The same as you, i was just having a few problems getting it to work...:ok:

[kingdee]

give my thumbs up to Ryanair over the A.T.C STRIKE only one flight canx allbeit others delayed however they did great:ok:

[Runway 32/14]

Nice to see Jet2 and LBIA on channel four tonight, on Derran Browns Program.....:D

[purplehelmet]

Nice to see Jet2 and LBIA on channel four tonight, on Derran Browns Program.....:D
i dont think thats done jet2 any favors what so ever:=

[righthandrule]

Adguy, I was working on the day you mentioned, and I can assure you it is never normally like that at LBA. It all went wrong as Thomson Airways used a Boeing 767-300 instead of the usual 757-200 on their Palma flight, meaning that the stand plan was messed up due to wingspan issues of that aircraft. This meant that more flights than planned had to be bussed to the terminal, and also several flights landed slightly late and several slightly early (5 x 737 arrivals, 1 x 767 arrival and 2 x 757 arrivals within 45 minutes !! :ugh: ) in turn meaning a massive bottle neck of arriving passengers between 14.30 and 15.30

I was trying to board a flight from gate 10, as you mentioned when the Malaga queue was snaked WELL past there. Normally at the worst the back of the queue starts at gate 10, so what you experienced was really an exception.

Benchmark times for a 737 load of passengers through immigration is 8 minutes and for a 757 is about 12 minutes. Obviously at peak times two or three flights can be mixed together, at worst around half an hour wait from landing to getting into the baggage reclaim area. You also have to remember that the day you flew back, was in fact probably the busiest day of the year, with nearly ever single flight at capacity.

We get used to abusive passengers, expectations at LBA are far too high, it used to be a dream to fly from (it still is at quiet times) but days like you experienced are proof that the terminal extension is WELL OVERDUE. PULL YOUR FINGER OUT BRIDGEPOINT!

[LBA]

But the Thomson Airways 767 came in last Thursday and he said he flew in last Friday?

[righthandrule]

He did indeed, I obviously didn't read it fully. I don't recall any problems on Friday though, especially as the morning Malaga is operated on a 737 on Fridays.

[Adguy]

Hi righthandrule, thanks for your reply.
It was definately Friday when I flew in, and yes as you say it was on a B737.
I'd gone out the Friday before and was surprised it wasn't operated by a 757. I don't understand why when the Friday demand is usually quite high.

Anyway, your explanation would make perfect sense if it was the right day. Maybe something went wrong on Friday too?
Either way, I'm glad it hasn't been so chaotic up there all summer!

[righthandrule]

Fridays can get very busy at immigration, I wasn't up there but obviously it took a long time.
On Fridays one of the 757 does the afternoon Malaga service as it goes out to Faro in the morning, so the morning Malaga is a 737. Well on a positive note it won't be that busy again up in immigration until next summer now, god help us should nothing have been done by then !! :ugh:

[lbalad]

Anybody in the know,if this is likely to start this winter?.Wasn't it supposed to get underway last year?.

Only reason for asking is that we are flying out at Christmas time,and wondered if the terminal would likely be a building site!.

Cheers.

[Spotter LBA]

Just heard today that Easyjet have been in serious talks with the management of LBA to set up a base at LBA with two aircraft. Anybody know if there is any truth behind this?

[wanna_be_there]

Just heard today that Easyjet have been in serious talks with the management of LBA to set up a base at LBA with two aircraft. Anybody know if there is any truth behind this?

EZY are downsizing their UK offering at the moment. DSA has just been cut, NCL being cut back majorly and a lot of other posters here and elsewhere stating majority of UK focus will be MAN/LGW with no new UK bases for the foreseeable future.
Add to this LBA is now a FR/LS stronghold, I cant see EZY bringing anything new to the table
Therefore I would not put any money on LBA becomming an EZY base.

[Runway 32/14]

August flight and pax figures from the caa for LBIA are:

Flights 3645

Passengers 359508 :ok:

[Bill Bo Baggins]

Heard on the local radio that there's a press conference at LBA this morning to announce the arrival of new high profile airline to the airport, Could this be the answer to those Easyjet rumours that have been doing the rounds?

BBB

[pploony]

Just been announced on Radio Leeds, EZY to start on 17th December to Geneva. No details given on whether there will be a based aircraft.
Interesting times ahead!

[pploony]

More info, only a Geneva flight, so presumably a Geneva based aircraft? therefore no base at LBA, yet!

[lbalad]

From lbia.co.uk website

5x weekly 17/12/10-24/4/11,a total of 182 flights this winter.

Wonder what Jet2 make of that?

[Runway 32/14]

Could do with a few more members

Forum - Home (http://lbiaforum.proboards.com/)

[Spotter LBA]

Why does anyone think there needs to be another forum for LBA? :ugh:

[Runway 32/14]

Why not, i dont see a problem with it....:ok:

[Spotter LBA]

Fine if you don't mind reading and posting the same thing on several different forums. A matter of personal opinion I guess! Good luck to the forum! :ok:

[LBIA]

Hi

KLM are going 4 daily, Fokker 70's on the LBA-AMS service from start of the summer 2011 timetable..

[LBA]

That is cracking news, the loads have been picking up well recently.

[Bab_zz]

Whats up with the PK delay to depart today (09/10/10) its not left LBA since its departure time at 19:30, bording began at 21:00, and now its not leaving, still looking at the webcam. was it due to an technical issue?:confused:

[righthandrule]

Jet2 have announced extra capacity on the Leeds - Geneva route for this coming winter, with an extra 737 rotation on a sunday and upgrade to a 757 on the morning Saturday service. The offering is now Daily Monday, Thursday and Friday, with double daily services on Saturdays and Sundays. Very interesting move considering easyJet have announced a 5 weekly Geneva service from Leeds.

Fares are VERY competitive with Jet2, and interestingly the lead in fare with Jet2 is £19.99 which is cheaper than easyJet, and the easyJet service is slightly too late in my humble opinion, not getting into Geneva until 20.45 on some days. It will be interesting to see how things pan out, especially as Ryanair has taken Jet2 head on at Leeds this summer and flights seem to have a higer load factor than last year. Perhaps Jet2 are upping their game, and actually competition is exactly what they need.

[minsterman]

not only all the above but free skis and boards both ways if booked this month,up for a scrap me thinks!!

[pee]

Published Date: 21 October 2010

RYANAIR'S investment plans for Leeds Bradford International Airport will be on the agenda at a major business event.
The airline's chief executive, Michael O'Leary, will be the headline speaker at the Leeds, York and North Yorkshire chamber of commerce lunch in York.

The event, sponsored by Barclays Business, will take place on December 2 at the Royal York Hotel.

Shaun Watts, president of York and North Yorkshire Chamber, said: "Michael O'Leary is hugely entertaining and a great entrepreneur.

Ryanair's investment in Leeds Bradford International Airport was a huge boost for the county and the economic benefits will be felt right across the region.

"This event is a chance to hear about the airline's plans and how they will impact upon businesses in Leeds, York and North Yorkshire."

Source: Yorkshire Evening Post (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/businessnews/Ryanairs-expansion-plan-takes-off.6592348.jp)

[2Planks]

righthand rule - speaking as a skier - you are right the Easy arriving GVA at 2045 is too late for the majority of skiers/boarders. The last busses for the resorts leave at 1915, condemming people to an overnihgt stay, an expensive hire car or even more expensive private transfer. Given that these flights are targetted at skiers (weekend and winters primarily) they need to address thier timings.

[LBIA]

Hi

The 3 new ryanair routes to Gdansk, Fuerteventura and Dusseldorf-Weeze have commence today anyone know how forward bookings are looking?

Also notice that there are 3 x ryanair aircraft at LBA. I thought the base only need 2 738's this winter season.

[Jamie2k9]

2 are only being used. The other one may of being there because of a tec problem or something.

[righthandrule]

I think its just while the schedules change, with routes operated by non based aircraft i.e. Alicante moving over to the 2 based units over the coming days. Not many came off the inbound FUE and Weeze, but it is only the first flights.

[GdLSF]

Surely you wouldn't expect many pax on these flights as they were the first inbound. Doubt if there is much inbound traffic on these routes.

[humberside_go]

I was passenger outbound on the 5th of November departure to Gdansk and returned yesterday evening to the loudest round of applause I have ever experienced upon landing - it was rather hairy up in Yeadon last night... I estimate both flights were around 70% full and consisted almost exclusively of Polish Nationals. Is it commonplace to get a round of applause on Eastern European flights or was it just such a rough approach and a bit of sliding around on the runway, that they were glad to be back down?

[righthandrule]

Probably something to do with the 90 degree of crosswind that we have seen over the last few days at times!

[wawkrk]

Applause from Polish passengers is normal, they appreciate the pilots skills.
Our chavs would be writing to the Sun Newspaper complaining about dangerous flying and a near death experience where they thought they were going to die.

[paully]

Closely followed by instructions to a `No win no fee`scumbag lawyer in the hope of getting something for nothing :*:rolleyes:

[LBIA]

Well we are a week and a half into the winter scheduled and the third ryanair 737-800 aircaft is still parked up. Each day only 2 aircarft are needed for the based operation but the 3rd aircraft sits there doing knothing so i guess its just a spare unit incase one gose tech.

Also out of intrest dose anyone know where Thomas Cook flight TCX771H is coming in from later tonight at 20:20? As its not showing its destination on the arrivals for some reason

[wawkrk]

On April 4th 2011, the airport will have been under new ownership for four years.
Has anyone noticed the airport had a change of ownership?
What has improved in this time?

Terminal congestion is worse.
The fixtures and fittings are falling into further disrepair at an alarming rate.
Escalators no longer work.
The runway is like a cobbled street.
The website and arrivals/departure info is a shambles.
The management team seem to be invisible and just sit on their big salaries.

The transfer from dire public ownership to private ownership has been so seamless, nobody has noticed the change. All we ever hear are excuses and it all takes time etc. etc. etc.,whatever.

Everything is true as I predicted after the takeover when I was shot down in flames by some airport worshippers.

The sooner Bridgepoint sell, the better. They are like an antidote to dynamic.If I ran my business like this, I would be bankrupt.

[paully]

Totally agree..Bridgepoint were having financial troubles within their group at the time they bought LBA so their chances of heavily investing were frankly limited. They also bought right at the top of the financial cycle intending, I`m sure, to sell it on for a good profit within a short period of time.

Since then the property market has nose dived and they have been lumbered with a declining asset that needs a lot of money spending on it....Watch this space indeed

[wawkrk]

I would just add to my previous posting.
Shame on Leeds City Council who bulldozed the deal through with Bridgepoint as the highest bidder and not the bidder who could best serve the long term needs of the people of West Yorkshire.

[LBIA]

Yeah I agree that not everything is rosy, But It’s not all been bad under Bridgepoint, and Would LBA have had the following routes and services without Tony Hallwood’s expertise.

Ryanair = 17 new routes & 2 based aircraft
Easyjet = New Geneva Route
PIA = Islamabad service
Jet2 = Continued growth (But not at the rate it use to be)

Flybe replaced bmi on the London route. Yes it’s to Gatwick and not to Heathrow but it was better than nothing at all which would have been the case.

LBA has had its best growth in passenger figures wise in the last 9 months than that it ever had under the previous council owners. It looks like it should be hitting the 3 million pax mark this year for the first time ever due to the fact that LBA is still seeing growth by airlines and operators this winter season. Where as other airports in the area DSA & MME to name but a few are still seeing declines in theirs.

The Public Car parks have been made a lot larger and access to them is a lot better than they use to be, Q8 have just built a new fuel farm. The local transport network has been improved recently with money been invested in new buses and increased frequencies while a new pick up and drop off area has been created.

Dont forget they now have planning permission for that new terminal building expansion which will hopefully commence sometime earlier next year by all accounts. This is not just a little add on like the previous owners use to do this is a complete redesign of the existing layout and additional new build that been required for a very long time.

God some people are never happy and have short memories. I remember the days of when LBA was struggling to do 1 million pax a year back in the Mid 90’s, before the opening hours restrictions were lifted in 1996.
All we had was British Midland Saab’s to Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paris and the Fokker 100’s to London Heathrow, Night Air’s Bandrante’s to Southampton, Isle of Man & Aberdeen, Air Uk, Fokker 50’s to Amsterdam, Sabena’s RJ85’s to Brussels, Jersey European’s Fokker 27’s to Belfast City and the very few limited winter charters we had at that time.
At one point LBA only had 1 winter ski route and that was to Chambery operated on Saturday by British World. How far the place has come in 15 years is amazing.

[wawkrk]

Bringing in more pax is not exactly what I am talking about. Tony Hallwood is a bright star amongst a lot of dead wood.
I am talking about the state of the airport. LBA grows mostly because of it's location despite transport links being poor.
The place is a shambles end of story.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

Hi,

I could understand your rant wawkrk if the airport infrastructure was not going to be vastly improved in the next year. On the face of it there does seem to have been a long frustrating period of delay. This delay is largely due to our local politicians that sold the airport to a company that guaranteed large scale investment and then, having received the millions ££££, the council then placed obstacles in that companies way. Why aren't the roads big enough to the airport? Because the council who at that time owned the airport didn't want to spend any money on making a new road to the airport (despite it being in the council's LBIA masterplan). Get on and build the new road council!!! It is your responsibility not the new owners of the airport. This is what i pay my taxes for.

If Bridgepoint were to sell on the airport (I hope they wont for years), who could blame them. All this to contend with in a deep recession. LBIA is not a shambles and is only set to improve.

Tony Hallwood is a bright star. Who got him in wawkrk? Bridgepoint that's who. They went for one of the best route getters in the business and that is why our passenger numbers are growing while virtually every other airport is in decline. Wawkrk go on the Blackpool, Teesside, Manchester, Doncaster etc etc threads and read about turned off travelators, airport development taxes, airports closing at 9pm to save money and airlines pulling out left right and centre and dropping passenger numbers and then think about LBIA and things might not feel that bad. Unless you know differently the development is very close to commencing despite, I say again, an extremely difficult financial climate. I would like to say well done to Bridgepoint

LEEDS APP.

[Fandango71]

Well said Leeds Approach! Not everything is ideal but it is an improving picture.

Incidentally, wawkrk not all British people are chavs, infact some of the Polish nationals I work with have commented on how pleasant it is to work in the UK because of the people and how polite and friendly we are!

As for clapping on a flight out of appreciation....sure its not the Żubrówka kicking in??

[wawkrk]

Myślę, wrażliwość

[Helen49]

The only advantage at LBIA is its proximity to its customers, oh and apparently Mr Hallwood!

It is badly located at 680 odd feet above sea level with all the attendant low visibility problems; has a crosswind runway; is probably the most difficult airport in the UK to access by road; has little chance of major road improvements or a viable rail connection and has hardly a scrap of level ground anywhere on the site! A nightmare for operator's, pilots, travellers and developers!

For these reasons LBIA will always have to work harder than its competitors in order to attract business. It will always be attempting to make the best of a bad job and every attempt will be a costly battle! All the major developments have been opposed by the locals [residents/politicians] eg. construction of runway 15/33 in the 60's; runway extension [took donkey's years]; night flying; terminal extensions to mention but a few! Moreover, so far the current owners have proved almost as inept as the previous owners.

Let's hope that the optimism of some of the contributors to this thread is well founded.

Helen

[Fandango71]

wawkrk - Wy odpowiadacie w Języku polskim,bardzo dobry! not bad for a chav eh!

[wawkrk]

Tak, Did'nt know you were a chav Fandango. Sorry I upset you then.

[commit aviation]

Interesting to note that over on the BOH thread people are suggesting that MAG are inept for spending money on a new terminal in the middle of a recession. Yet here the same accusation is made because Bridgepoint haven't built the new terminal yet!
Passenger numbers are growing so I would think the time is right for things to get moving but I'm not sure you can blame a company for taking the time to be certain before investing their cash.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair will only have 2 B738 bases next summer. They have updated the booking system.

[LBIA]

Hi

Anyone have any ideas as to why tonings late inbound KLM69W (KL1551 service) from Amsterdam operated by Fokker 70, PH-KZM declared a PAN and then made a full scale emergency landing into Manchester Airport tonight?

[aidoair]

There was a technical problem with a stabilizer on the aircraft, added to this the restrictions on visitbility at LBA meant they decided to go to MAN due to longer runway to be able to slow down and better vis.

[Bearpit]

Jamie2k9,

You sound very certain on 2 based a/c at Leeds. Programme on sale still shows 3 aircraft? Is this going to change? Have you any more info?

[LBIA]

I see that Ryanair are dropping the morning FR152/153 Dublin services on a Tuesday and Wednesday from January 2011 due to there latest spat with Dublin Airport. So that now just leaves 11 weekly flights between Leeds and Dublin.

I wonder if anyone might look at competing on the route? Aer Arann/Aer Lingus would be ideal on a once daily basis to start with seen that they have just recently dropped services from both Teeside and Doncaster.

[Spotter LBA]

Jamie2k9 I have been told from a reliable source at LBA to expect the current 3rd aircraft that is based at LBA this winter (spare ac) to stay there next summer. If you know anything different please share? I'm sure we'll all find out more once the big visit is over!

[LBIA]

Hi

Anyone know if there is any truth to rumours that LBA are talking to a couple of airlines regarding the re-instatement of direct flights to London Heathrow.

If they are true surely there are only 2 contenders for the service. bmi or BA

[rpmac]

A LBA to LHR seems unlikely however how is it that Lufthansa has flights throughout Germany to places such as Dresden, Bremen, Muenster, Hanover, Stuttgart, Leipzig, Hof as well as to Berlin, Hamburg, Dusseldorf from Frankfurt. Similar story in Spain with Iberia from Madrid. They are also in competition with rail. Could the UK and BA support flights into Heathrow from Leeds and Liverpool at least which are big cities and could they support a twice daily service. Leipzig has 5, Bremen 6, Freidrichaven 3, Stuttgart 4!! Surely BA services from the provinces into T5 should help long haul. What does BA have... GLA, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Manchester, Belfast, Newcastle.

[wawkrk]

The LBA - LHR link by BA worked well for many years because of good onward connections of course. BA pulled out because they wanted to upgrade from using Viscounts to jets. Leeds city council made sure they would not extend the runway at the time for jets so British Midland took over.
This was also very successful for many years and I seem to remember flights peaked at 5 per day.I am not sure how BMI onward connections compare with BA but I would assume BA could make it work better than BMI these days.
(Leeds City Council continue to try and stifle development at LBA with the new owners struggling to make progress.)

[pwalhx]

Airlines will not use slots for domestic routes there are more lucrative opportunities further afield. The days of the BD MAN/LHR are numbered once they find a better use for the slots

[wanna_be_there]

days of the BD MAN/LHR are numbered once they find a better use for the slots

Id agree with that, the LH group can move pax via Germany better than through LHR these days.

Id say LBA-FRA is a better fit than LBA-LHR

[BKS Air Transport]

If my memory is correct, BA announced their withdrawal from the LHR route after planning permission had been granted for the extension of the runway, or at any rate whilst they were still operating from the airport. Had BA had the will, they could have continued the service during the construction period by either scraping a few more years out of the Viscounts, or by using jet equipment with restricted loads (EI used B11s and 737s on the old length runway for years).
I did see a comment in 'The Wharfedale' a few weeks ago which said that reinstating the Heathrow route was one of the airport's priorities.

[wawkrk]

The rumours regarding LBA-LHR do not appear to be just rumours according to another forum forums4airports.

[Runway 32/14]

Jet2 plans Leeds Bradford expansion

23.11.10
Jet2 is to create 145 jobs at Leeds Bradford Airport next year as it expands its services from its home base. The airline will also increase seating capacity on its 11 Leeds Bradford based aircraft to meet growing demand.
The expansion follows a record summer for the airline this year at Leeds Bradford Airport, where it carries more than 50 percent of the airport’s passengers. It had a record 1.1 million passengers over the summer, serving 41 destinations, with demand for flights to the Algarve, the Balearic Islands and the Spanish Costas exceeding expectations.
The airline is planning to increase its seat capacity at the airport to 1.8 million next year. Two new routes will also fly from Leeds Bradford in 2011. Weekly flights to Funchal in Madeira will start in February and operate for the remainder of the year, and a new weekly service to Bodrum in Turkey will start in June. Services to the popular Spanish resorts of Malaga, Alicante, and Palma will include double daily flights during the peak summer period. The budget airline has also doubled its Saturday and Sunday flights to Geneva this winter.

[Aircrew101]

Anyone know why all the Jet2 are late going out this morning?

[EGBE0523]

Anyone know why all the Jet2 are late going out this morning?

Operating crews stayed up half the night watching the cricket,England messed up in Brisbane?!!

Weather but that is only a guess.

[LBIA]

Heard today someone mention that Thomas Cook are axing there LBA base at the end of the current winter 2010/11 season. Next summer’s flight programme for TCX is going to be operated by Astraeus.

Can anyone at TCX confirm if there is any truth to this? Would be a shame to see TCX leave, but a welcome return for AEU..

[TimmyW]

I noticed a few days ago on the DSA Wikipedia article that Thomson are looking to heavily scale back their operation there after next summer and introduce more flights from LBA.

Anyone heard anything?

[aidoair]

Heard today someone mention that Thomas Cook are axing there LBA base at the end of the current winter 2010/11 season. Next summer’s flight programme for TCX is going to be operated by Astraeus.


I remember a few years back now where I believe Thomas Cook used AEU to operate there flights from LBA. There has been rumour that TCX are wanting to increase their presence in the DSA market and wonder if this is linked. Add to that the rumour yet again of TOM wanting to scale back at DSA and increase presence at LBA see above...

[wanna_be_there]

I noticed a few days ago on the DSA Wikipedia article that Thomson are looking to heavily scale back their operation there after next summer and introduce more flights from LBA.

Yes and we all know how accurate and factually correct wikipedia is.
Was actually speaking to the DSA base amanager the other day. In fact, the opposite is happening.

Instead of 2xB733 and 1xB738, next year will see 2xB738 and 1xB733.
Then in 2012, there are plans to re-introduce a 2 weekly B767-300 to SFB, or once a B787 releases one from another base (whichever comes first).

Yep, mass pull out there :rolleyes:

[ryansf]

I was just thinking the same - DSA is one of the few Thomson bases to actually increase in capacity in this coming Summer. I do think the future of our two Yorkshire airports will pan out like this though: LBA will become the main airport for low-cost scheduled and other scheduled flights (KLM/BMI), whereas DSA will become the main holiday/charter airport, with the odd low-cost thrown in (such as Wizz). If the rumours about Thomas Cook are true, then my predictions could be coming true!

[Keyvon]

A new Ryanair service to Lanzarote has been announced today.
It will compete against both Jet2 and TCX.

[Hull City AFC]

A new Ryanair service to Lanzarote has been announced today.
It will compete against both Jet2 and TCX.

Good news for the airport. I wonder if Ryanair will announce any more new routes from Leeds tomorrow at their "Dinner" in York???.

[Teevee]

"It will compete against both Jet2 and TCX".

But how much? Jet2 maybe more than TCX but aren't both heavily involved in carrying their own package holidays? That isn't Ryanair's market is it? A bit like the new TFS route down the road at DSA, not so much competing with the present operators to a destination, but complementing them? Just a thought.

[AP1995]

are TCX leaving LBA? they have 2 new routes for 2011 so ti doesnt make sence? and are TUI going to expand LBA? & will easyjet add more routes to LBA? are ryanair going to add more routes at LBA?

[LBIA]

I see the airport has its new website up and running at long last.

Its a lot better than the previous one.

[aidoair]

I see the airport has its new website up and running at long last.


I'm still getting the old one???

EDIT: Just found out it will take up to 48 hours for some people to recieve the new website depending on internet provider among other things apparently

[AP1995]

did LBA handle any diversions from london? i know i BMI & BA and a few others diverted, does anyone know if anything else diverted?

[Runway 32/14]

As far as i am aware, these were the only diverts in to LBA yesterday:

BA675 From Istanbul/Heathrow G-EUUV A320
BD844 From Berlin/Heathrow G-DBCD A319
RE511 From Galway/Manchester EI-BYO AT42
FR59 From Stockholm/ Stansted EI-EKO B738
NV727VJ From Boston/Stansted NV727VJ B727

[AP1995]

yes, thats what it said on LBA SPOTTERS website, i was just windering if there was any more because it might not of mentioned them all but thanks for the infomation, anybody no any news on hoe the easyjet route is doing?

[Runway 32/14]

Take a look at the LBA arrivals board, i am guessing due to the bad weather and back-log of traffic that the arrival and departure of the new Easyjet route have been badly effected..looks like they are running several hours behind schedule....

But you probably already knew this!!!:(

[LBIA]

Hi

I see Astraeus have a nice big delay on there inbound Lapland charter. Flight AEU730 was due in at 18:05 yesterday evening (Monday 20/12/10) but it is now expected to arrive at LBA 19:45 this evening just under 26 hours late.

Dose anyone know what has happened to the B737-500, G-PJPJ. Did it go tech somewhere or has it been stuck at one of the many snow closed airports in last couple of days?

I guess the kids will have been happy staying in the snow for an extra day up in finland but I wonder what there parents are thinking.

[commit aviation]

I believe the aircraft was stuck at LGW but not certain

[AP1995]

is LBA getting a run way extension at all in the future? because it a short runway and aircrafts can not do long haul with bigger aircrafts with a fuel stop at E.G shannon does any body know?

[roverman]

I think a runway extension would fall off the edge of the hill, wouldn't it?
Northern England has a long-haul airport. Manchester. It doesn't need and can't sustain another.

[jonathan78]

No need for a runway extension as Boeing have the 787

[Chitty]

i dont think LBA needs a bigger runway because we have direct long hall flights to islamabad on an a310 and we have had flights to newyork on a 757-200 and flights to bardos on a 767-300 and a a330-200

[flybymike]

It seems like only yesterday when the runway was actually extended.

[AP1995]

ive read the barbados flight stops at shannon for refueling? but if this is incorrect then there is no need for a extension

[Chitty]

well i know that the thomas cook flight to barbados on the a330 went direct

[Runway 32/14]

It is indeed a direct flight to Barbados,

[commit aviation]

The truth is somewhere in the middle!

Some flights operate direct -the A330 did & the first of this years 3 TOM services went direct. The next two are planned to operate via MAN.
I think the load on the direct operation is limited to enable this to happen.

[Runway 32/14]

The A330 is more than capable of operating from LBA'S runway even when fully loaded...the 747-200, tri stars and MD11's have done this with ease in the past (euro 96) is a good example...:ok:

I know Thomson are using a 767-300ER for their flights direct to Bridgetown from Leeds dates are :
FRI, 14/01/11 = To Bridgetown
SAT, 29/01/11 = From Bridgetown
SAT, 19/02/11 = To Bridgetown
SUN, 06/03/11 = From Bridgetown

[Smoke_On]

Runway 32/14,

Do you know the times of the 767 flights?


Thanks.

[HOODED]

Most long haul ac are limited from LBAs runway, some ac more so than others. The A310 does well with a decent load to ISB and yet the 752s struggle to New York when fully loaded. Its all down the the conditions on the day, runway 14 gives a much better TODA so if the wind favours 14 then thats a bonus as is a cool temperature obviously. Next Gen long haul eg 787 and A350 should be much better, the 787 in particular will be almost unrestricted from LBA except in exceptional weather conditions rather than the other way round.

[Runway 32/14]

Times yet to be arranged.....:ok:

[AP1995]

will PIA ever operate the 777-200 from LBA? if they remove the A310's will they upgrade the service?

[Runway 32/14]

The information i have received about the 777 is that it is still ongoing!!
the runway and taxi ways ect have already been upgraded for the arrival of the 777, i have asked lba if and when the 777 will commence operations from leeds, but i am still waiting for a reply, the last rumour about PIA commencing its 777 service was summer of this year, when PIA and LBA said that it would start ops in October!!!! well it is now January 2011 and still no sign of this new movement....maybe it will never happen:confused:

PIA and LBA agreed to reduce the 3x a week service because of the new 777 arrangement, that is why it is a 2x weekly service now...didnt help with PIA aircraft been continuously late in and out of leeds:=

[Mike Tee]

Very interesting thread this. The comments by HOODED regarding the better TODA (Take Off Distance Available) for Runway 14 over 32 has rekindled a subject which has puzzled me for years, so perhaps someone can enlighten me. What is the difference (in laymans terms please) between TODA and TORA (Take Off Run Available). I note that there is a considerable difference between the TODA for Runway 32 at 7477 ft and Runway 14 at 10,397 ft. Thanks.

[Shunter]

Have a look at CAP168 for a diagram. It's the surrounding terrain which dictates the length of TODA. Land rises on the 32 climb-out, not so on 14. TODA = TORA + ClearWay. ClearWay = distance between end of TORA and first obstacle (in this case, the Chevin).

Say you have an engine failure after V1 and you need clear space ahead due to significantly decreased climb performance, that's where increased TODA comes in.

[Mike Tee]

Thanks for that Shunter, it's a bit clearer now !!. What is CAP 168 and the Chevin ?. Thanks again.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Thanks for that Shunter, it's a bit clearer now !!. What is CAP 168 and the Chevin ?

Chevin - ridge (hill) just to the north west of LBIA.

CAP168 - CAA document detailing licensing of aerodromes (gives details of all measurements etc etc)

TORA vs TODA in really simple terms - TORA is the distance available to get airborne in (amount of tarmac/surface of 1 type or another). TODA is TORA + clearway. Clearway is the distance beyond the end of the runway without obstacles that would get in the way of a climb-out.

[AP1995]

does anyone know of LBA'S passeneger stats for 2010?

[Runway 32/14]

(December figures have not yet been released)

But it looks good for LBA, the current amount of pax coming through the airport upto November 2010 stands at 2,706,836 thats if the figures i have seen are correct:ok:

[AP1995]

where did you find the infomation on the statistics?

[Runway 32/14]

Follow the link to the caa web site, then scroll down to the very bottom of the page and click on the link in the document directory
2010-11
Hope that helps :ok:

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&pageid=11&sglid=11 (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=80&pagetype=88&pageid=11&sglid=11)

[AP1995]

thank youu
any new routes at LBA for summer & winter 2011 or 2012?

[Runway 32/14]

Bit early for 2012 routes, but check out this link, ITS AN INTERACTIVE MAP it gives you all the destinations from LBA

http://www.airportdirecttravel.co.uk/leedsbradford/map (http://www.airportdirecttravel.co.uk/leedsbradford/map)

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair are dropping Carcasonne from Leeds on March 23.

[LBIA]

It’s not looking 2 bad for LBA this summer 2011

Yes Ryanair have dropped the Carcassonne route, but they will also continue to operate its routes to Gdansk, Fuerteventura, and Dusseldorf-Weeze that commenced this winter season and of which didn’t run last summer. They have also added a route Arrecife for this summer 2011.

Jet2 is adding a route to Funchal-Madeira which commences next month and will also start a once weekly service to Bodrum from May.
Some flights that were operated by B737-300's last summer have be upgraded to the B757-200's and LBA will see more w-legs of non based aircraft from both its Edinburgh and Belfast bases.

Holidays4u have added LBA to there network for summer 2011. They will be using Onur Air on once weekly flights to both Bodrum and Dalaman in Turkey.

Thomas Cook is launching a new weekly charter flight to Kos in Greece from May. But know one knows whats operating based programme. The local based Thomas Cook cabin crews are not coming back this summer by all accounts. This has not been denied or confirmed by anyone yet.
If Thomas Cook dont return with the single based Airbus A320 aircraft this summer it has been mentioned that flights might be operated by a third party airline.
This is where the latest rumours have come about suggesting that Astraeus maybe about to return LBA this summer operating the based programme on behalf of Thomas Cook Holidays, Just like they use to do in the past.

Omega Holidays have just announced that they will operate a series of 3x charters to Naples using British Airways Cityflyer, Embrear 190's.

KLM are introducing a 4x daily weekday service to there Amsterdam service using the City Hopper, Fokker 70's.

They will be others that I’ve forgotten to list as well. We are not doing to bad in my book anyway.

[righthandrule]

Thomas Cook are defiantly operating this coming summer with the based Airbus. Crew start recurrent training in February for when the season starts at half term.

[Runway 32/14]

Dont Thomas Cook code share with Jet2 on some of the rutes!!!

[AP1995]

will easyjet be intrested in adding new routes if the geneva route is doing well? & will thomson add any more routes? are the tenerife and sharm el sheikh doing well?

[aidoair]

Dont Thomas Cook code share with Jet2 on some of the rutes!!!


No no code sharing of any kind goes on with TCX. They do however on some routes have an allocation on Jet2 flights for the tour operator just like they do with Thomson, Monarch etc and vice versa.

[LBA]

I am surprised that Ryanair have dropped Carcasonne, considering it was the only French route that they kept going through the winter, and it appeared to do better than some of the other French routes last summer that they have kept going for this summer?

[Jamie2k9]

With the Leeds based aircraft operating Gdansk and Fuerteventura next summer it would be hard to operarte Carcasonne as well.

[LBA]

I know, but I what i'm saying is I would have expected NTE or MPL to go before CCF... oh well!

[Jamie2k9]

The route that should be going is Knock. Take a look at the Knock Forum and see the passenger numbers I posted for it.

[LBA]

I know... they are pretty abysmal!

[Jamie2k9]

The only reason to keep the route is because they have very low landing charges at Knock.

[EuroChallenger]

When does the KLM go to four daily?

[ILS32]

Hi EuroChallenger The flights start March 2011. ILS32

[LBIA]

I wonder if PIA’s will re-introduced its 3rd weekly A310 service from March on its Islamabad service or if we see the long awaited arrival of the airline's B777's. PIA has said that its a profitable route and that it could expand its UK operations this summer after its tie up with Turkish Airlines.

Dose anyone know if any work is needed to be done on the Apron, Taxi-ways or Runway at LBA. Or if any works have already taken place for LBA to be able to accommodate B777 operations?

[Runway 32/14]

This may be of interest to you:: In regards to the PIA 777

http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/Published/C00000124/M00004383/AI00025412/LBIAMonitoringReport_v1.pdf

ITS WORTH READING AND SHOULD ANSWER YOUR QUESTION:ok:

[HOODED]

Interesting link, thanks for that, it seems the reduction from 3 to 2 weekly has happened but no 777 upgrade yet and no firm comitment to it either. I have to say I am sceptical off a 2250m runway unless they intend to use -200ER/LR only which might work.

[682ft AMSL]

An interesting report on surface access, which the council will be discussing tomorrow. The report includes data on where passengers originate

http://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=51868

The airport MD will also be presenting to the council. Soundbites from the powerpoint they will be using, particularly the last one, are I'm sure designed to win favour with the local councillors....

• Making or region more accessible and attractive to inward investment.
• Creating significant regional employment.
• Increased international profile for the city and the wider region.
• Enhancing Yorkshire's inbound tourism potential working with Welcome to Yorkshire.
• Manchester becomes the 'second best option' for our customers and catchment.

Powerpoint also suggests 280 construction jobs to be created on site in 2011/2012 from terminal development

682

[wanna_be_there]

Actually, if you read the quoted article more closely, you will see that the B777 was never promised for LBA:


the possibility of securing the B777


Page 3, towards the bottom

Also, page 4 says advanced discussions with PIA were taking place to facilitate the introduction of the B777, and that no definitive date of the introduction was given

To me it seems like PIA have said they will try and get the B777 into LBA, but didnt go as far to set it in stone.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I read elsewhere that any notion of PIA putting a 777 into LBA has been canned and that the route will be dropped as and when the A310s are withdrawn from European service.

When their "prime" routes are being chopped, I honestly can't see a twice weekly service to a regional airport lasting, and with consolidation now becoming PIA's primary aim, the service would appear an obvious candidate for consolidation to MAN. :(

[HOODED]

Unless they replace the A310s with some leased 788s. Alternatively they could consolidate their MAN flights at LBA given the huge Pakastani population in Bradford. They now know PIA operate from LBA and they no longer have to travel to MAN unless they must fly on a day other than Sat/Wed. :}

[wanna_be_there]

Alternatively they could consolidate their MAN flights at LBA given the huge Pakastani population in Bradford. They now know PIA operate from LBA and they no longer have to travel to MAN unless they must fly on a day other than Sat/Wed


Can LBA handle the B773? I know they did some work to accomodate a B772?

Anyway, why would they move up to 2-3 flights a day to LBA, when they can just move 2 weekly flights to MAN?

[roverman]

PIA has operated for many years as a government owned public service. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion but it probably explains why they operate into LBA as well as MAN. This cannot be a cost efficient way to serve what is essentially a single market, but was done no doubt due to lobbying by the ex-pat communities in Yorkshire. If PIA are now looking at routes on a more commercial basis, bearing in mind the withdrawal of the A310s at some stage I think consolidation of the LBA services to MAN is inevitable. That's assuming MAN continues, of course. It would be fairly drastic if it didn't.

[682ft AMSL]

More likely because the new team at Leeds are doing their utmost to prove it isn't a single market and they can serve demand that originates in the LBA hinterland from LBA - the whole basis of their pitch to the local council this morning. Their entire business plan is based on this premise so things like PIA are important symbolically to them as much as financially and no doubt PIA were offered a very attractive deal on handling fees. Unless the crewing arrangements at LBA are particularly expensive vs MAN, it's hard to imagine why the cost base would be massively different

I agree though, withdrawal of the A310s will force the decision. Even if it goes, the 3 years of operation is probably enough to prove the point the airport want to make about passengers in their own catchment choosing LBA over MAN if the choice is there.

682

[wawkrk]

I don't believe passengers living close to LBA so readily accept travelling to MAN as we loved to do a few years ago. Road traffic conditions and delays these days cause even more stress for many passengers. And, as we know, the airport is not even in Manchester. It is not uncommon for long haul or early departing pax to travel to Man the day before and stay overnight in a hotel.
In my opinion, continuing to consider LBA to be in the Manchester catchment area, is stretching this too far these days.

[roverman]

There's always the train, direct into MAN airport. Also, the entire terminal area of MAN is in the City of Manchester. It is only the western half of Runway 2 which lies in Cheshire.

P.S. I'll leave it there, seeing as it is the LBA thread.

[wawkrk]

It's a long time since I tried the train but the main problem was at the time, not having anywhere to store 2 big suitcases and two lots of hand luggage.
We had to stand in the aisle with many others for the whole journey.
Then, we transfered to some ridiculas shoppers type bus to go to the terminal.
Holding the suitcase out in front of you to climb through the narrow bus entrance and steps was a hernia sufferer's nightmare.

[wanna_be_there]

The thing with PIA consolodating to MAN if it happens:

Its not that there is no market, or people want to travel to MAN, its just how PIA will want to run their market.

Its a similar story to BHX and AI. There is a huge market demand to India from BHX, but instead they have to travel to LHR to catch flights to India.

LBA can lobby all they like, just like BHX has lobbied for an Indian connection for years, but if PIA want to funnel through MAN, then LBA will have to look elsewhere.

If PIA do pull the plug Shaheen air used to serve LBA, so I wonder if either they or Air Blue could plug the gap? Surely say, a 2 weekly A321 with Airblue would be better than nothing.

[rpmac]

Why all the talk about PIA quitting LBA. They have said the route is profitable, the load factors seem very good, people want to use LBA rather than MAN if at all possible so the market is there. PIA have invested in the route so why pull out? It appears that the 777 is possible from LBA. In fact given time there is no reason to believe that it will go back to 3 x weekly, plus the possibility of Turkish Airlines flying LBA to IST maybe 3 or 4 weekly, maybe even GLA -LBA- IST for increased connections, etc.

[speedbird9274]

Just a thought..........JET2 with a 767 ??????????

[Runway 32/14]

Jet2 would need to buy or lease a 767 to operate the route!!!

Stranger things have happened:hmm:

[Runway 32/14]

PIA axe Glasgow route, but could expand other UK services

13.01.11
Glasgow will lose its direct air link with Pakistan this month following a shake-up by Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) that could see it expand its other UK services, ABTN reports. The airline will axe its twice weekly Glasgow - Lahore route on January 22 following an appraisal of its loss-making operations in Europe.
Its decision to axe Glasgow is linked with competition from Emirates, which operates daily flights from Glasgow to Dubai with onward connections to Pakistan. A spokesman for the airline told ABTN that flights from Pakistan to Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds Bradford were profitable and could be expanded. PIA will also continue with its Manchester - New York route.
The spokesman said: ‘In the UK there are no other closures apart from Glasgow. Glasgow did not meet its operating costs, we tried to linger for a year, but it did not improve.’ He added that any expansion on UK routes would be in time for the summer timetable, which starts at the end of March.

[Runway 32/14]

Concerns raised over Leeds Bradford Airport traffic problems

14.01.11
A council watchdog has welcomed plans to increase the number of passengers using Leeds Bradford Airport from more than 2.7 million passengers each year to 5 million, the Guardian reports. But councillors on the city development scrutiny committee said that while they recognised the economic benefits to the region of increased visitors and the number of extra jobs that would be created, they told the airport that a better transport infrastructure needs to be in place to avoid making already congested roads worse.
Meeting chairman John Procter said:‘There are some real issues about getting to and from the airport. The feeling from members here today is that we wish the airport well and we want millions more people to use it, but there is a problem with the existing road infrastructure that needs addressing.’
Councillors also raised concerns about the lack of a rank for all local taxi companies to use at the airport and also said that sat-nav systems often took people through residential streets. The scrutiny board agreed to examine the issues in greater detail and look at what influence the council has over the airport's surface access strategy at next month's meeting.

[wawkrk]

Regarding traffic problems.
Leeds City council make me laugh.They are the ones who have failed for many years to put any money into the infrastruture and at the time when they were receiving profits from the airport.The planners even allowed new properties to built on Harrogate road beyond the old building line so the road could never be widened. Some of these Ludite clowns even wanted the airport to be closed.They believed the airport serving Leeds should be Manchester.

[Smoke_On]

Was there a C17 in the hold above Leeds today? It looked like one but it kept disappearing into the cloud.

Does anybody know what it was doing?

Thanks.

[Fosters]

It was trying to land, but out of limits crosswinds meant a diversion to Doncaster I believe.

[Runway 32/14]

Dont know why it had to divert, everything else got in without any problems....

[Knavesmire Express]

Wawkrk,

What money have Leeds City Council failed to pump into surface access to LBA that is now a private company?

A road from the ring road to LBA would be at least £30m - when was the city council ever able to fund that? Only central government have ever been able to come up with such funds.

I share your frustration completely - but don't over-estimate the powers and finances of local authorities. Especially now - whence nothing will happen for at least five years apart from tweaking a few traffic lights.

K

[lbalad]

I don't like one aspect of the revamped airport website.

The arrivals and departure pages only show the current flights,not the days flights.For instance I saw earlier the PIA was due in approx 5 hours late,and it has obviously left now,but no way of knowing when.

I did email airport to say I preferred the old arrivals and departure pages,but surprisingly I didn't get a response!.

As an aside,anybody know if the terminal redevelopment is likely to be started this winter?,was no sign of it when I passed through the airport christmas time.

[wawkrk]

Knavesmire Express

The lack of investment in the roads is not just specific to the airport.
The A658 is not exclusive for the airport.The bulk of the traffic is not going to airport. Over the last 30 years the council allowed many new properties to be built close to the road preventing any future chance of road widening through to the Ring Road and down to Otley Road.So are you saying the roads in Leeds could not have been improved over the last 30 years because of lack of funds?

[Runway 32/14]

I have to agree with the comments regarding the new web site, i dont like it at all, it is frustrating when you want to check on past arriving traffic and you cant do that any more!!!!!!
As for the new redevelopment of LBA i guess it is anyones guess as to when and if any work will ever happen, as with most things LBA related they seem to be all wind and no trousers!!!!!
Again regarding the roads to from and around the airport, these propblems have been around for decades, new builds new shops, population increase and the roads are still only designed for wagon and horses....LCC should have applied for government money to improve the roads years ago, maybe they did but central government will have stopped it because it was a northern project and not beneficial to the south...Maybe Bridgepoint can apply for european funding for roads, terminal and runway developement.......and why not, all these other european countries get millions just by asking!!!!!!
LBA is so frustrating, maybe they should close the airport and build a brand new one alongside the M1, that would solve the traffic problems and most land near the M1 is farm land and away from housing...
( if only i were kidding)

[Knavesmire Express]

Hello Wawkrk,

I'm not disagreeing that the roads could not and certainly should've been enhanced over the last 30 years. I'm just making the point that local authorities can't fund large schemes.

If they want to fund large schemes they need to bid for central government funds and Leeds prioritised the Inner Ring Road and the East Leeds Radial.

Bradford prioritised improvements in the city centre.

Neither really developed improvements to the airport (apart from paying lip service to it) so in that sense you are correct.

Whilst access to airports and ports is a government priority we can forget any central government funds for the forseeable future.

It's a case of making do with what we've got as Bridgepoint are unlikely to fund any enhancements other than what is stipulated in their planning approvals.

Not good news I'm afraid.

[682ft AMSL]

The live flight information on the website will be amended soon, in response to customer feedback, so watch this space.

There is no confirmed start date on the terminal expansion but the airport have made good progress in discharging most of their S106 obligations during 2010, so they are good to go as and when Bridgepoint believe the economic environment is right.

Transport wise, nothing significant is going to happen any time soon other than the A65 QBI which is under construction and the potential to link up Horsforth rail station to the airport using the type of shuttle busses they have in the long-stay car parks. There is certainly a view from those at the airport with prior experience at BRS, that the transport issues are overblown. It's an easy hit for the media but feedback from passengers tells a slightly different story.

682

[Knavesmire Express]

Forgive me if all this has been said before but I'd observe that surface access to EGNM is poor compared to most, but is not as crucial as is made out.

The road congestion affects 0730-0930 and 1630-1800 (though I'm happy to be corrected on these timings as I don't live local anymore).

This neither affects the morning flights (as most folk will arrive at the terminal before the congestion) or the evening flights for the same reason.

The congestion is only a problem is you are flying 0900-1130 or 1700-1900 that is a relatively small proportion of daily throughput.

[pug]

Knavesmire Express is right. I flew on the early morning LBA-DUB a couple of months ago, it took me around 15 minutes to drive from the motorway junction at Elland Road to the airport. And the same coming back too.

he road connectionc are not perfect at all, but they are no where near as bad as people like to make out.

[Teevee]

You know, as well as the whole (largely fictitious!) 'catchment area' thing this really cheeses me off. Why is it that LBA and DSA are 'hard to get to because of road connections and MAN isn't? DSA hard to get to? Rubbish! LBA difficult to get to RUBBISH - and if you anticipate congestion in Leeds Centre there's another way round the top of Leeds that all the taxi drivers use and is no problem at all ... now let me think ...MAN??? With all those motorways should be easy right? But guess where's the only airport in the North that I've been stuck fretting in a traffic jam- you'll only need one!
LBA doesn't desparately need nor does its future depend on a new road link. That is just a smoke screen put up by opponents!

[pwalhx]

So one time you got stuck in traffic that means the road links to Manchester are bad. That is crazy to compare an airport that is directly linked to a motorway and has a rail link with 2 that have neither is ridiculous. I worked at LBA for 5 years I know hwat it is like to get there from halifax, some mornings and evenings was fine however a lot of the time it was frankly awful. It depends where, when etc. Fact is LBA would benefit from a better road link.

[Teevee]

Somebody else who doesn't actually read what is there but what he thinks is there! I didn't say LBA wouldn't benefit from a new link, I said it didn't need one to be successful half as much as some people seem to think. In fact, I'm guessing that it is the way of these things that you have to be VERY successful before anyone'll commit to a road link ... and then some! Good God, it is the way of this country to be reactive not proactive - more is the pity! Nor did I say I'd only got stuck ONCE going across to MAN!

[pwalhx]

I said would benefit from, not needs. And I apologise if I misread your comment about Manchester as being once.

However as someone who has worked at both Manchester and Leeds I stand by my comments.

[righthandrule]

The Airport will not see and major transport improvements in the short to medium term. John Parkin has publicly stated this, just look at Bristol. It has flourished despite having pretty poor transport links compared to other airports. Just because Manchester arguably good transport links (I have yet to have an easy journey from Leeds to Manchester Airport) does not mean it can or will be any more successful than competing Airports.

The LCC have completely changed the market, people are quite happy to be in a queue, have to change trains and busses and take poor roads to get a cheap flight. This is the basis that Airports like Bristol have grown, and is the basis that LBA will grow. Yes, LBA has a LONG way to go, but it is heading in the right direction when many Airports and Aviation organisations are not. Transport links will not directly affect the growth of any Airport, it will simply improve the passenger convenience - but simply apply the Ryanair effect on Airports and no one cares if they are a buggery to get to, it's all about the £.

Manchester is bang next to a Motorway and has seen passenger numbers fall dramatically over the last 12 months, Leeds Bradford is a good treck from the nearest motorway and passenger numbers have soared over the last 12 months. One reason - the availability of cheap flights.

[Ian Brooks]

Two main reasons Manchester dropped
1) Ryanair pulling ( no real loss)
2) huge drop in MAN/LHR due vastly improved rail link
Man Scheduled pax has now been rising at constant 6 to 9% for last 6 months really as soon as volcanic dust stopped figures only let down by Dom/Charter (many of which are now becoming scheduled)
Leeds have now got the Ryanair effect which has bolstered figures

Ian

[righthandrule]

My point exactly :) Nothing to do with the Transport links.

[g_tripp60]

All the discussion on surface access ignores the fact that there are those of us that prefer to use public transport (preferably the train). In order to get to MAN, all I have to do is get to the nearest rail station.

Getting to LBA by rail is not an option. As someone who travels on business, usually just with hand luggage, access by rail is a big advantage for me.

[batninth]

Can anyone explain what was score last night with a/c on approach to LBA please? I live in East Leeds & can normally see a/c being routed in from the south arriving roughly over the M1/M62 junction & then heading straight in.

When walking the dog last night around 7pm-ish, I could see a/c routing pretty to much as normal to the M1/M62 junction & turning as normal, then they seemed to follow an S-curve over our way to the East of the city before turning back in the direction of the airport. This was consistent over the four a/c I saw arriving.

Just wondered what was going on to force this change, can anyone provide enlightenment here?

[Runway 32/14]

The aircraft might have been taking up a "Holding position" due to the wind.....several aircraft had to divert because they couldnt land at LBA.

[LBIA]

The provisional passenger stats are now out for January 2011. Some good numbers for Leeds/Bradford again.

LBA = 140,168 (up 32.7%) - rolling year now up to 2,758,378 (up 8.9%).

Atms for the month were also up by 21.4%

So it looks like the Ryanair impact is now coming through quite strongly and LBA is now not far off hitting the 3 mppa if it continues to keep on growing with stats like these.

[Manchester Kurt]

It did snow an awful lot in Jan 2010.

[whoshotjimmi]

Hi everyone, long time reader first time poster.
I finally decided to take the plunge and post because the emotive subject of surface access has taken prevalence recently and it is a subject which interests me.
Runway32/14 mentioned building a new airport next to the M1 and, whilst that does sound far-fetched (and indeed will never happen); the theory is sound and the benefits enormous. As far as I am aware, the main usage of the land around that area is landfill so, potentially, in a number of years this will be unused, undesirable land. It sits next to the M1 motorway with close links to the M62 and A1 which would put it within a 45 min drive of the likes of Sheffield, York etc. and 1 hour of Hull and North East Manchester. It would be sat directly next to a railway line with rapid links to other population centres as well as the centre of Leeds and also next to the A63 - which is a newly built and completely underused road - direct into the centre of Leeds (10 mins to the bus and rail stations). The runway, due to the local geography, would be south west facing and have a length of upwards of 3,000m. Aircraft routed into and out of the airport would automatically miss local population centres (other than the small village of Swillington) Too good to be true? Definitely. As I said before, it would never happen. As it is, the owners of LBA are forced to strive to improve a site of limited space with a sub standard length runway, with geographical limitations, that is (incredibly) prone to bad weather and rubbernecks with greenbelt land along the most congested corridor in Leeds/Bradford. And it is with this in mind that the subject of surface access has to be looked at very carefully.
It is entirely true what people say about the "Ryanair effect". People care about their hard earned spondulics, more now than ever, and it is entirely reasonable to think that growth can happen purely on this basis - Liverpool, Bristol, Luton - all perfect examples of how this is possible. But that is not the only force at work here. We are at a stage now where the airport is flirting with longer haul operations, where the feasibility of routes such as New York and Dubai are being questioned. In essence, the next stage of development. What should also be considered is the fact that within 5 to 10 years, the world will see the likes of aircraft (787 and A350) whose operational capabilities will be ideally suited to runways of the ilk of LBA. In essence, technology is bridging the gap that is created with the problem of a short runway, which effectively eliminates that issue. The problem then lies in trying to attract airlines that will operate these aircraft to the field. And that is where the surface access issue raises its head. Whilst the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet, Flybe, BMIBaby, Jet2 etc are quite happy to operate with existing facilities as long as they get the lowest price possible, flag carriers such as Emirates, Ethiad, American Airlines, Continental etc (the airlines that a long haul operation would theoretically utilise) have more stringent stipulations for operating that service. Terminal development is a given - to expand passenger operations, the terminal has to be able to deal with a higher throughput of passengers. News is (potentially) good with that in mind with the promise of a redeveloped terminal building which leaves surface access as the remaining problem.
LBA has a huge problem in trying to attract long haul operations - Manchester. Effectively, what LBA has to do to attract such a service is compete with them or provide a compelling enough argument to show why an extra service can be accommodated. Lack of a rail link and average to poor road links (depending on your point of origin) do not bode well in that argument. The airline needs to see the potential of the route and the perceived inability of people to get to the airport from surrounding areas (areas that have a rail link with Manchester) would undoubtedly negatively affect any negotiation. Whilst the likes of Ryanair are able to chop and change at will, a flag carrier will put a lot more planning and organisation into a long haul link and then expect it to easily achieve all targets (targets will be very tough) and add to profitability. In order to meet all the criteria for sending that aircraft to LBA, the marketability of the airport has to be spot on. So, in summary, new planes able to operate off existing runway - check. Terminal able to handle 5mppa - check (possibly). Potential customer base? Millions in Yorkshire and the North East, all of whom will be quite happy to and many of whom will find it much easier to travel to Manchester for the same flight. Manchester, the airport with longer runways, better equipment, bigger terminal building, dedicated railway station with links to most of the North of England, dedicated motorway, years of experience of long haul that is not prone to bad weather - in other words, the obvious choice. That is why surface access is a big issue and why the future of the airport should be looked at with that in mind.
I have read a lot of comments on here about surface access and people tend to take one side or the other. I don't think there is a definite side on which to sit - the airport has the ability to expand without vastly improved surface access but - along with other, fixable inadequacies - will not be able to reach its full potential.
James

[LBIA]

I see the Snow this morning has caused havoc up at LBA. The runway was closed for a while for snow clearing. And to make matters worse the fog has now rolled in.

This mornings P&O Caribbean Cruise departure was diverted to Manchester, but that’s a normal thing for Thomson’s while a Jet2 inbound from Belfast Int’l also diverted

It also seems that LBA have implemented new low visibility procedure which is creating some long delays. Only one aircraft movement on the ground is allowed at any given time. Outbound aircraft are been given more than an hour delay for pushback and its having a knock effect along with the required de-icing. Meanwhile inbound aircraft are going straight into the overhead LBA hold and then been given an estimated approach times.

Is this a new requirement by the authorities or a management decision due to LBA not having ground Radar?

[easyflyer83]

whoshotjimmi. A good read but you are off the mark in some respects. First, LBA might be able to "bag" a couple of long haul routes but these, in my opinion, are likely to be restricted to charter, Dubai, Pakistan and perhaps a New York. LBA, next to the M1 or otherwise, will always struggle next to MAN. It's not just all about surface links but also the local economy and unfortunately the NorthWest economy has the more compelling case whilst serving Yorkshire at the same and aswell as the North Midlands and the North East.

Also you'd be very surprised to hear that low cost operators often have as many stipulations on the airport as a full service/long haul carrier, just different ones. Sometimes the airport has to jump through even more hoops for the LCC's. Appearances can be deceptive.

[whoshotjimmi]

Firstly, may I apologise for my poor formatting! Just trying to get my head around it. :uhoh:

Easyflyer83 - I agree with everything you have said. I do not believe, nor do I think anyone believes that LBA will ever compete with Manchester. I am also aware of the highly aggressive negotiating tactics (particularly those of ryanair) employed by LCC's. What I am talking about here is reaching full potential. As I mentioned, growth is very much possible within the parameters that the airport currently operates. But full potential will require a whole host of changes and improvements, chief among which is the accessability of the field.

A site next to the M1 with a rail link would help in terms of becoming a viable option to many people in so far as the current site is not. Since that will never happen, the accessability of the existing airport is important in attracting new customers and potentially stealing one or two from the noisy neighbours. Whilst I believe the limit of long haul from LBA would be exactly as you describe, I don't believe it is acheivable with the current set up.

My firm belief is that, in the short to medium term at least, LBA should be looking to expand in the short to medium haul sector. Perhaps the likes of Ryanair would do a better job with a Madrid rotation, maybe a FlyBe type operation with a Q400 would make a better hash of a Copenhagen - I don't know, I am just speculating - but I feel this is where the majority of growth, if any, is likely to be. There is no doubt that a small long haul operation would be welcomed at LBA and, with the right management, could be made a success. But the aforementioned issue would have to be dealt with.

Just for the record, the economy of the North West has grown around the success of Manchester airport. With economical growth, the airport has been able to expand further. Manchester airport has been a huge success for many, many years now having done all the right things to achieve that success. North Western regeneration is due, at least in part, to this success. When businesses are looking for alternatives to London, the benefits of other cities are looked at and one such benefit is an airport that has decent links to many parts of the world.

[easyflyer83]

Fair point but I don't agree that the Northwest economy has been spearheaded by MAN. Certainly for Greater Manchester I'd attribute this in part to the huge regeneration of Central Manchester. Leeds is still the financial centre after London but this isn't down to LBA either.

[CabinCrewe]

Leeds, biggest financial centre after London ? Dont think so....
New European Economy - Edinburgh boosts its status as top tier European location (http://www.neweuropeaneconomy.com/Site_Content/Briefing/Edinburgh_boosts_its_status_as_top_tier_European_location/)

FT.com / Comment / Analysis - Edinburgh finds itself on a downward curve (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb255cb6-239a-11de-996a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1EUvgK5rr)

[Runway 32/14]

Leeds biggest finacial city outside London...I think So:

http://www.marketingleeds.com/downloads/leeds_business_factsheet.pdf

[CabinCrewe]

Nope. We prefer non biased independent quotes in here (as previosuly provided). Not a biased one produced by a Leeds marketing company locally. Come on ! Keep up the google searches and all will be revealed.... England maybe, UK, no.
And you better get on to the Financial Times , yes the Financial Times and tell them their information is wrong.

[whoshotjimmi]

I don't think it really matters whether Leeds is the biggest financial centre outside London or not as that is not the main driving force behind LBA expansion. Elements of it could definitely help any negotiation, but it is not the key to it. In fact, the Leeds City Region development council always quotes its air and rail links with London as being central to further growth.

With regards to the North West, the airport and its worldwide links most definitely aid the area, as well as other, more spurious reasons such as Manchester United FC, city wide light rail, regeneration of the city centre following IRA bombing etc. But I can't see such growth being possible without a reasonable means of getting into and out of the place e.g. Manchester Airport. Let's remember the rail link to the capital was poor until recently, certainly inferior to that of Leeds.

LBA can't expand like that - the apron is already full overnight in summer - but if it does the right things (improving access being my main point) there is no reason that it can't successfully house a small long haul operation, whether Leeds is the biggest financial centre outside London or not.

[EuroChallenger]

Just noticed on the KLM website that the KLM LBA - AMS is four daily from late march.

[TopazBlue]

Never mind the transport links, the departure lounge is now worse than it has ever been. I flew out of Leeds going to Fuerteventura on the 19th February when it was snowing. There is total lack of seating for passengers, people were sat on the floor everywhere in the departure lounge as there was not enough seating. When Jet2 announced imminant delays due to the weather, hoards of people went to the VIP lounge and paid to go in. Within minutes of this happening, Jet2 pax were told that their flight was going to board, then wasting their money to pay to go in there!

Seems to me that there are too many shops and cafes now in the departure lounge, causing you to buy drinks and snacks in order to sit down. People had bought drinks and sat at a table, but they did not move once they had finished, causing people buying drinks and snacks having to sit on the floor with them.

Get it sorted Leeds, I don't want to pay airport taxes to have to sit on the floor when I am going away on holiday.

[LBIA]

Dont know if anyone else on here has noticed, But you can't book a flights anymore with flybe.com from Leeds to London Gatwick after March 31st.

Dose anyone know if the route has been dropped or whats happening?

[pwalhx]

Just spoke to a colleague who uses the Gatwick service regularly, he has a booking for May 5th and tried to make a booking while I was talking to him on the phone and it was letting him do it. He did say there are often glitches like that when he books so he just re trys.

[whoshotjimmi]

Have read elsewhere that the loss of Gatwick from 31st March is confirmed.

FlyBe website states differently showing flights timetable LGW-LBA until January 2012. Perhaps a change in frequency or timings? Showing 3 daily Mon-Fri, 1 Sat and 2 Sun.

James

[ryansf]

FlyBe website states differently showing flights timetable LGW-LBA until January 2012. Perhaps a change in frequency or timings? Showing 3 daily Mon-Fri, 1 Sat and 2 Sun.
Whilst the timetable still shows January, the booking engine physically won't let you book past 31st March.

http://i54.tinypic.com/a09te8.jpg

[LBIA]

Hi

LBA have officially announced on its facebook page that flybe are dropping the Leeds/Bradford to London Gatwick route from March 31st 2011.


The Flybe LGW route will be available until 31st March 2011. Leeds Bradford is looking to replace the London service as soon as possible.
Please contact Flybe on: 01392 268500 for further details.

So i wonder which airlines they may possibly target for a replacement service and to which London airport?

[whoshotjimmi]

I have to say, this is a very surprising and concerning turnaround from FlyBe. Not so long since they were increasing frequencies. Dare I say? A nail in the coffin? Certainly a hammerblow. Along with reductions in the Exeter/Aberdeen frequencies. So much for FlyBe expansion at LBA.

With regards to the previous question, exactly which airlines COULD take on the route? If FlyBe can't make it work, who can? Is there an Easyjet announcement imminent? I wouldn't have thought they would stick 737's/A319's on a LBA - LGW rotation.

Jersey European/FlyBe were unable to make London City work, albeit with LHR still on the books. Is there an airline that could make that work now? LHR is apparently out for the foreseeable future though there was talk from John Parkin of reconnecting Heathrow. There is absolutely zero point in Luton or Stansted. Bad times methinks.