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Captain Sand Dune
4th May 2011, 10:26
My flight instructor at my current flying school actually quit the defence force recently, he passed everything and was half way through his 2FTS when he decided to leave.
Oh yeah? "Decided to leave", eh?:hmm:

4th May 2011, 11:31

I'm just going to take this opportunity to expand on some things you have said just to keep it fair and shed a different light on it.

then you better enjoy flying a cargo plane because there's not much other choice in the RAAF

SRG operate the Wedgetail and the Orions, with plenty of travelling opportunities to go with it. South East Asia, Middle East, Hawaii etc etc. Same can be said with ALG. Those C-17 boys get to travel all over the globe, and have heard of trips to some interesting places including Europe, USA, Canada, Alaska, China etc etc, on top of conducting Operations in the Middle East... Better than flying commercial and doing the same old sectors over and over again, being a slave to the airlines route/market choices.

I'm sure you weren't mocking those aircraft types but a recently graduated pilot can find himself going from a single engined turboprop to a multi jet engined aircraft within a few months (maybe a year if they don't clear the backlog) and quickly discover he's sitting in a bar downtown Honolulu. And if he's a good copilot, or wingman, he'll be buying the crew the first round. Thats progression you won't see in the civvy world.

He didn't want to spend the next decade flying twice a week only

I join good old Captain Sand Dune's skepticism about your flight instructor, but I don't know the guy so I won't pass judgement. However what I was going to say is that flying twice a week maybe the case sometimes, but not all the time. There are periods where you are flying up to 100 hours in the month, particularly for some ALG pilots. Jet pilots also can log large amounts of hours, all of them command too. Flying in the RAAF always comes in crests and troughs as we are at the mercy of operational tempo. Sometimes it can be high, like with all the natural disasters happening domestically and internationally. Other times low, but it all works out to be a fairly consistent rate of flying.

Also he said the air force is full at the moment, flying commercial would be a better option

The RAAF is not full... just a little round around the edges due to a less than normal departure rate because of a lack of commercial airline hiring. That being said, you do not have any less of a chance of getting through the recruitment process than you did a few years ago. The RAAF will always take pilots because there is only one way you'll get fresh blood... recruit, recruit, recruit. And if you ask any pilot in the ADF, fresh blood is a VERY good thing. If you want to go commercial, be prepared to fork out alot of money to get there and spend alot of time with charter, regional etc etc before you get to the airlines... Why not let the RAAF fast track you to command on multi engine aircraft for 10 years then move on if thats what you want. Also as mentioned, airlines aren't hiring much at the moment so I expect the civilian world is suffering from a backlog of qualified pilots at the moment and jobs would be a little on the light side, if not then atleast highly competitive. I'm not in that industry so I can't say that with much certainty but one can logically make that conclusion.

Also you better get used to preparing 10 hours for every 1 hour flight in the Hornet, providing you get there

Yes its hard work to get there and even harder whilst you are there, but I wouldn't expect flying 500+ knots at 150' AGL all while trying to defeat enemy platforms and employing weapon systems to be easy. Jet pilots do alot of study but only those deserving of it get it... Its pretty simple really, do the hard yards, or die in combat.

you better be okay with seeing Hornets all during your ROSO and wanting to fly them knowing you can't

I have met many pilots who have attempted jets, scrubbed, flown other aircraft types and then get a second shot at it only to be successful. I've also met alot of pilots who've scrubbed and enjoyed the other world so much they don't care about jets anymore. Each to their own I guess but generally speaking it doesn't matter which aircraft type you fly in the RAAF... You'll get an incredible kick out of being part of a squadron flying unique aircraft to places not many get to see with people you'll be friends with for the rest of your lives.

Just my two cents on the RAAF and a different perspective. All competely and utterly unbiased ofcourse :}

5th May 2011, 11:39
I finally got to attend my citizenship ceremony this morning and have mailed DFR a copy of my certificate. Boy! Was it the most anxious and a little frustrating wait since Assessment day [did it June last year], having to wait for the immigration paperwork to be cleared. Hopefully, fingers and toes crossed, my file will now be approved to be sent off to the PSA.

Btw spacemantan, a very encouraging and positive message. :ok:

6th May 2011, 05:10
Completely agree with you spacemantan,

I joined the RAAF the same day my schoolmate started a comparable civil aviation degree. He's getting a bit sick of flying for peanuts on shark patrol/skydiving/camera flights to get his hours up, 6 years later.

I'm having the time of my life as co-pilot with job stability, a set progression and the excitement of the unknown that comes with flying my platform.

As for ADFA vs DEO, I think recruiting were right to push me towards ADFA straight out of high school. It provided foundations in general military knowledge and attempted to instil in me the maturity required to be a good officer (which is what you are first, and a pilot second). Not that the average pilot's course maturity level is too high...

Good luck to Avalanche, Name With Luck etc, I wish I'd read this thread before I fumbled through recruiting a few years ago!

8th May 2011, 04:44

There's more to being a Raaf pilot than just flying.

10th May 2011, 05:21
Hey Guys,

I have a tricky question regarding the required order of events for becoming a pilot in the Army. If anyone can shed light on this it would be much appreciated...

I have recently been through the initial stages of my application for appointment as an Army GSO Pilot - Duntroon. I have done initial testing, and also passed pilot specific testing in Melbourne. I hurt my knee (nothing serious) playing footy about a week prior to my Assessment Day, and had to postpone it a couple of months to ensure I was fully fit for the medical.

However, I was very keen to go into Duntroon in the July 2011 intake (civilian employment is just too painful), and this is where my question arises:

I understand that I still need to have my Assessment Day, have my file sent and accepted for FSP, go to FSP and pass before going into the pool where I wait for an offer. I also acknowledge that this can be a lengthy process, and there is absolutely no chance of having all of this done before the July intake at Duntroon this year.

Can I go through the selection process and enter Duntroon as a standard GSO (defence recruiter has confirmed I should be able to get it all done for upcoming July intake) and apply for GSO pilot from there? I'm 90% sure I have read somewhere on this board that I can apply for Flight Screening whilst at Duntroon, and if accepted, attend the FSP during my tenure at Duntroon. All going well, I would progress into ADF Basic Flying Training upon graduation from Duntroon...

Is this correct?

I have asked DFR about this but they are unsure. I also understand that there is a risk of not being accepted as a Pilot once in Duntroon, and will be required to complete my Return of Service obligation as a GSO in another Corps.

I look forward to any help on this!

Thanks and regards,


10th May 2011, 17:19

Yeah you can do that.

Might be worth a call to RMC or PSA to find out specifics. It's more their deal than DFR's.

11th May 2011, 00:47
Greetings all,

I've recently joined this forum as I'm in the process of trying for SSO entry to the Army Aviation corp and there seems to be a wealth of knowledge and experience here.

I've just been offered a place on the FSP in early June - perhaps proving that's it's never too late to enlist! (I'm almost 39 years old).

Hey Mitcho, I got the impression from a question I asked at DFR that you could indeed apply for the FSP whilst at Duntroon but from what I gather on this and other forums, don't take anything DFR say as gospel! I would imagine you definitely run the risk of having to work out your ROSO in another Corp if you enlist as a GSO.

16th May 2011, 22:50
Sandrews and Basalt,

Thanks for the replies; it's much appreciated. Im comfortable with the risk of having to work out my ROSO in another Corp... purely because I know that there are other things that I can do as an officer in the Army that still beat the vast majority of civilian jobs.

Ive had what I used to consider my 'dream job' in financial markets... earning big bucks for a young guy. When I would look around at the old dogs that had been doing it for years though, it really makes you wonder if its worth wasting your life stressed out in front of a bunch of screens for a few extra dollars (usually spent drowning your sorrows on the piss anyway). I want to be a chopper pilot... but whatever happens I know ill be challenged, enjoy an active lifestyle, and wind up with plenty of mates and a few good stories.

Anyways, awesome thread.


17th May 2011, 20:29
Hello all,

First up, this site has been a huge help over the last few months, so a big thank you to all of you for sharing your experiences.

You've probably guessed it already, yes, I am (yet another) prospective ADF Pilot hoping to work his way through the application process.:}

So far so good.

I've done my aptitude and psych testing (the 'video games' with joysticks) and so far came up fairly well with everything.

They took a gander at my school cert and it says SA- for Math B

Not acceptable.:{

I'm looking around for a few bridging courses but DFR won't give a straight answer on whether a given course is acceptable as a replacement for Math B.:mad::ugh:

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Also would help if there's any Navy Helo Pilots here - that's what I'm aiming for. (Blasphemy, I know; but I'll take landing on a moving ship, at night, in a storm, over fast jets-without a second thought:})


A bit of background info - I'm 22, in Brisbane, and during high school I couldn't decide between being a Navy Heli-Pilot immediately, or doing a bit of gallavanting while I still had some freedom (without a ROSO to tie me down)

I did the gallavanting.

Now I want in. :E

p.s - the name comes from my 'other' job - chemistry student.
p.p.s -sorry about the length :O

18th May 2011, 03:27
Had my YOU session on Friday and every thing was going well until the medical questions. I answered them and was told at then end that due to the medication I take and have taken for the last 10 years. I was not able to join at all. I do have the option of appealing. Any one have any thoughts on the situation and what the probability of success would be?



18th May 2011, 07:44

according to the ADFPSA site Maths B with a SA is acceptable.

Have you read this site, cause its pretty obvious that the RC often don't know which way is up.

18th May 2011, 08:26

I've read it all a few times, and their position is that a SA- (SA MINUS)
does not constitute a SA grade and is therefore a fail.

I've tried appealing this (back in 2009) and I was told that if I could
find a remedial course that is acceptable to QSA (Queensland Studies Authority) as a Math B equiv., they would take me.

I've asked both DFR and QSA, and both said - yes, such courses exist, but no, we have no information on any courses around brisbane (or anywhere):ugh:

Basically - "yes, it's fixable - but we won't give you any clues" :=

my situation is - I have a list of courses. But they want me to do them first and THEN tell me whether it is acceptable (after blowing $$$).

I'd rather know for certain.

18th May 2011, 08:41
Read the whole thread. There's a section towards the last quarter (?) about maths courses that are acceptable, one of those being Dr Steven Holdings course. It's expensive and is done full time but is only 8 weeks and in Brisbane...DFR know about it and he knows his stuff. Better than a 6 month TAFE course. Blackbird14 did it and is now in so it's accepted. I did a course through CSU uni which also worked. I also got it approved BEFORE doing it so not sure what they're on about. Anyway, read up.

18th May 2011, 09:52
I was on Dr Holdings course with bb14 and can vouch that it's a great course. Double check that it is acceptable though, we both had completed the appropriate maths at school (with an alright mark) but wanted to better ourselves in it.:ok:

19th May 2011, 01:01
Is there anyone here who is - or who knows a lot about - GSO Army Pilot? I have some questions.

19th May 2011, 03:25
Look through the thread mate, plenty of info if you can be motivated to look for it.

19th May 2011, 11:05
mads24, must admit never heard of a minus SA

19th May 2011, 11:36
Finest kind, some would say its called an "ACO"

21st May 2011, 06:01
Anyone get the call for the OSB only June 20-23? :ok:



21st May 2011, 10:03
Hey mate,

I'm going to the June 20-23 OSB only too! Hopefully for my second successful OSB. Yes I did get in the first time. Long story.

26th May 2011, 07:45
Does anyone know if there any major differences in selection for someone already a defence member?

Or is it just a matter of, once pilot selection has your paperwork you are then required to complete aptitude testing/flight screening/Officer Selection Board like other applicants?

26th May 2011, 12:12
Found some information on the process and it appears to be the same.

I'm assuming the aptitude testing would be the same as for civilian applicants, but we all know about assumptions....

26th May 2011, 12:30
Every a app goes through PSA. If you are already in the service you need to speak with your divisional officer to complete the relevant service application for commission in the Pilot personal qualification.
Ideally if you really want this to happen, do all the research youself and tell your D.O. What they are required to do etc. Make their job easier to get the outcome you desire. The DRN search tool is a good place to start. Good luck.

27th May 2011, 06:50
Thanks GSXRMCK (like the name!),

I'm an Inactive Reservist (didn't mention it before to avoid abuse! ;)) and commercial pilot. My application is going through APA and i'm just trying to get an idea if the process is different or more is expected of me than a civilian applicant as I applied way back when I was 18 (passed aptitude testing then went to OSB before FSP for some reason, and was knocked back..).

Thanks for the help.

27th May 2011, 09:58
Anyone else coming to RMC in July? :D

InTheWeeds - I was just enquiring to GSO Pilot, do they still get to do a lot of flying? Or not really? I have an offer for GSO Pilot and I really want to know how much flying I will do? Thanks!

31st May 2011, 04:41
6 and a half months of fighting Medical and my file has finally been cleared and sent to PSA...

What to take from this?
DON'T GIVE UP! Just like Hornetboy who started this thread all these years ago, it pays to fight for what you want...just a tad of a cliche, but where this is a will, there is a way!

31st May 2011, 07:47
By the sound of things there will be several of us from this thread heading down, but no doubt I'll see the rest of you in the ADF further down the track sometime. Good luck!

2nd Jun 2011, 01:09
Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, and kept it alive through the years, it really has been a valuable source of information for me, as I'm sure it has for many others. Thanks to all of you, I managed to scrape through the specialist testing for pilot on Tuesday.

Now, the lady who told me I had passed said that she couldn't give me a specific score, however she could tell me that because of my score, my results were valid for three years. She explained that based on the score you achieve, your results may be valid for one or three years. I was curious as to whether being given three year validity on my results meant I was less competitive, or more competitive.

If anyone could let me know, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

P.S. If anyone wants any information on the specialist testing, please drop me a PM and I would be more than happy to help out (but do it soon while I can still remember! ;)).

3rd Jun 2011, 02:04

Your results are classified as being in one of 4 bands; i.e. Band 1 to Band 4, with Band 1 being the highest.

If your results are valid for 3 years then you've scored on the better end of the scale, and therefore should be more competitive in that regard. Bearing in mind of course that it is not only your test results that will factor in to your competitiveness.

Whilst I'm not sure at what percentage (or what ever measurement is used) the bands cut off, if you're curious to find out which band you've fallen into you can ask the psych on assessment day and they should be more than happy to tell you. :ok:

3rd Jun 2011, 08:14
Thanks for the info ant, much appreciated! That puts my mind at ease a little, though I might just ask the psych to satisfy my curiosity.. Cheers!

5th Jun 2011, 13:38
Hey guys,

For anyone that has already been through PSA, do you know anything about distribution dates coming up? Last I heard RAAF not til Feb next year, but I'm hoping that has changed for some reason. Any ideas?


19th Jun 2011, 08:23

Like most on this thread I am in the middle of a long and drawn out pilot application for the ADF. This forum has been a great help throughout the initial stages and specialist testing, so thanks to all who have contributed.

However, I have since been sent a letter stating I have been assessed as medically unfit due to "hypertension" (high blood pressure). Although disheartening, I plan on appealing this decision and was chasing a little help from those of you who have experienced an appeal and more specifically medical rejection due to high BP. As you can all probably relate, assessment day and getting poked and prodded is not the most relaxing environment and hence one may experience raised BP readings. Subsequent readings from my GP are below the stated guidelines and will form the basis of any appeal.

I would appreciate any help from those who can shed light on this process. Again many thanks.


20th Jun 2011, 01:37

Get a specialist report- GP probably won't cut it. Aviation med qualified even better. They (RAAF avn Medicine) will only be doing the same with your appeal. Do their work for them, find a credible specialist to confirm your GP's findings.

Good luck :ok:

21st Jun 2011, 08:06
Oldpinger, lesnak, thanks very much for your advice. I have seen a specialist regarding this and hopefully with the help of my GP and further results disproving Avmeds findings I can get him to write a favourable statement. I presume any appeal would take time like you have experienced lesnak. I would very much like to hear your thoughts on other items which may add substance to any appeal, further to a specialists report.

Thanks again.


24th Jun 2011, 08:27
Just got back from Tamworth and was recommended for Army SSO as my 1st preference. I was told in my OSB that SSO is almost non-existent at the moment, very few positions being handed out and likely to be that way till the backlog clears/new choppers come on line. GSO was the main avenue being pushed. I count myself very lucky as others were not being recommended for SSO. I was also told that there may not even be another intake this year for any of the services. :{

26th Jun 2011, 04:25
Lesnak, that is great news, well done.

Hopefully all things being equal I will have as much success with my appeal. Thanks again.

Dilmah G
6th Jul 2011, 09:08
Hey guys,

I've got a mate of mine leaving for course # 201127 this Saturday at Tamworth for Flight Screening. Is anyone else going down for the same course? If so, PM me and I'll put you in touch with each other. :)

10th Jul 2011, 23:12
Nice work lesnak, hopefully more good news follows!

I spose I'll probably see your mate there Dilmah, but I won't be there for screening :ok:

18th Jul 2011, 09:04
Hi Lesnak,

Excellent to hear that. My husband has spent the last six months working towards specialist appointments and also lowering his cholesterol to the normal range without medication which he has done. After your suggestion he is also going to get his personal trainer to write a letter - who happens to be an ex commando.

Any hints on what you actually wrote in your appeal letter? I'm not sure where to start.


2nd Aug 2011, 07:06
Hey guys

If any of you who've done the FSP happen to have a few minutes to spare, could you please send me a PM as I have a few questions I would like to ask in regards to Flight Screening.

There is a good chance for me getting into one of the upcoming FSP/Boards and would really appreciate any information that can be shared. I am also beginning a re-read of the thread, but Id be extremely grateful for any snippet of info you are able to provide in regards to this.

Thank You.
Best Regards

7th Aug 2011, 10:58
If anyone is having issues with DFR with regards to maths grades or eyesight, I had to tackle those two issues a few years back and may be able to point you in the right direction.

When I went through I had to re-do Math B which I did via TAFE. This was after first having done a bridging course that I was told do to by DFR, who then subsequently denied it was valid...I'm sure I'm not the first or last to experience this.

Additionally one of my eyes was not 6/6, which means they take into account levels of astigmatism and I was out of limits. I ended up getting PRK laser surgery, however it was a 9 month battle with DFR convincing themselves it was not acceptable when in fact it was. That was 7 years ago and I still hear of people being told your can't get laser. You can, I have, and I'm in.

If you have specific issues within the bounds of these two areas feel free to PM me. I can also recommend Dr Stephen Holding, I did his two day aptitude preparation course in 2003 and found it really helpful.

Lastly, DFR seem to get a lot of people on the asthma bandwagon when they've never had asthma. I know of a few people who put down on their sheet that they'd had bronchitis and been subsequently rejected as an asthma risk. So don't give them something to look for as they will tend to find it whether it's there or not. Good luck.

17th Aug 2011, 08:53
Does anybody know when the allocations for the September FSP's are made? I had my hopes set on a spot in September, and have been checking the mailbox every day! So yeah, just wanting to know when i'd be notified if i did in fact make it on.


17th Aug 2011, 10:08
You usually get about a month's notice sometimes less. They will ring you if you get a spot. :ok:

17th Aug 2011, 13:36

Are there any current Army pilots available to answer a few questions?


18th Aug 2011, 07:29
In The Weeds,

Thanks - I was hoping I'd catch your attention.

1. Following employment training at Oakey, what is the likelihood of being posted to 171 or 173 in Sydney as an SSO?

2. With respect to posting stability, and notwithstanding service needs and deployments etc, what is the general length of time spent at a particular squadron (lets say either squadron in Sydney)?

3. In light of the financial investment in pilots (and retention issues), how does the army treat its pilots with respect to posting preferences?

4. How is aircraft type determined during employment training (trainee preference or instructor recommendation)?

I appreciate you taking the time to shed light on these matters.


19th Aug 2011, 13:57
In The Weeds,

Thanks for your response.

I note what you have said about 173, however would you elaborate on whether trainees are posted to 171 from Oakey (noting the nature of their role). Are there any particular squadrons that are sought after? Are there any least sought after squadrons?

When you say that army pilots are treated less favorably than RAN and RAAF pilots, can you give some examples to put this into context. I'm interested to know how army pilots are treated on a day to day basis by the hierarchy (in light of the fact that you are an officer and have a big responsibility flying expensive aircraft).

Thanks again mate.


23rd Aug 2011, 11:32

Aviation in the army plays very much second fiddle to the other corps. It's just a function of where the army has evolved from and what its focus and point of view is. I guess you could say in the Army's eyes, the choppers and RAAF transports are just buses, the RAAF jets are just close air support. Not necessarily right or wrong, just a point of view.

So if you're in the army as a pilot you're not as much of a big deal as you would be if you were an infantry, special forces, or tank officer.

23rd Aug 2011, 13:19

Thanks for your comments - much appreciated.

Check your PM.


25th Aug 2011, 10:14
I finally had an assessment day!
Everything went alright and I've been recommended for board pending some requested docs. The bad news is I'm half a centimetre too tall for the Army which was my second preference! Half a centimetre!!

26th Aug 2011, 00:50

How tall are you exactly? (in cm)


26th Aug 2011, 03:29
It was actually my sitting height from head to seat. From memory the limit is 95 and I measured 95.5cm. I was pretty disappointed, especially considering I would measure under that as the day goes on. I'm considering appealing to be measured again but it is what it is.

26th Aug 2011, 08:57
I was told that there is an "at risk" (of injuries etc) category which is between 92cm and 95cm. Apparently they can take you if your "at risk" but if you exceed 95cm you fall into a "high risk" (or similar) category and you are unlikely to be considered.

How tall are you standing? Just trying to work out if I would be in a similar category (if you are a similar height)...

26th Aug 2011, 09:40
If your over 95cm sitting height, your made 'medically unfit' for Army entry. I know this all too well. My advice, go for a long run before your medical. :E

1st Sep 2011, 09:52
Raaf intake later this year. Not sure of numbers though.

2nd Sep 2011, 09:09
Standing I'm 183cm. There really isn't anything you can do about it so don't stress. And a standing height doesn't mean much, you may have long legs etc.
I'm considering appealing but it can take forever and hold up my application so undecided at this stage. Anyone had any experience with appeals?

cj, how did you find out the intake dates?

7th Sep 2011, 00:54
Below is a link to the ADF Recruiting Policy:


It contains information on educational requirements, medical requirements, education/medical waivers, appeals, interview process and questions etc.

It is available under Freedom of Information legislation.

not you naan bread
7th Sep 2011, 09:35
If anyone wants some info on ADF flight app testing i am happy to give some tips.

I have just passed it in the last week or so.

8th Sep 2011, 08:53

PSA and DFR told me the other day RAAF was doing an intake later this year, so who knows!!! :confused:

8th Sep 2011, 23:52
OTS holds two courses per year, one in Late Jan/Feb and the other Jun/Jul (maybe even Aug). There will also be the ADFA intake late Jan 12

They are restructuring a few things though so that may change. Wait out for official word from someone in the know (that generally doesn't mean DFR).

13th Sep 2011, 07:43
Since I was told RAAF were doing intake later this year and OTS courses being Jan/Feb, I'd imagine the offers would be coming out later this year rather than the actual intake. I want Army bad but as I've found out, SSO has halted intakes.:{ Certainly wont turn down an offer from another service though.

Hopefully I can make the deadline as today I was made class3 at my dental due to some minor issues( I hope):ugh:. Have to see a civvy dentist and have a thorough clean out and then present back to RAAF dentist in Oct. Hopefully offers don't come out before then!

13th Sep 2011, 09:58

That's the 2011 schedule.

Going off that, they shouldn't release offers until, at minimum, mid November for DEO but generally it'll take a little longer.

If you want Army bad enough, go GSO. Do your 18 months at funtroon and be possibly one of the most operational pilots in Australia.

If you're interested in holding hands, singing songs around a camp fire, enjoying a quiet cuppa' in the mess, crafting cute and fluffy bears for your friends, wearing blue and being in the top service, have a shot at OTS.

13th Sep 2011, 10:10
Has anyone had a call regarding the DEO FSP running in October/November?

14th Sep 2011, 05:48
Sounds like a bit of an over sterotype there Zulk.

14th Sep 2011, 08:08
I Certainly would take a GSO offer as well. I'm just not really keen on 18 months at RMC though. 32 years old now and want to get to flight training asap and SSO was the obvious choice. That and SSO is regarded more as a flying role rather than GSO but as we know now SSO is on hold for the foreseeable future. Failing flight school as a GSO is also nasty as you are then still a GSO but not a pilot. I would probably cry:{

The big question though is do you take a RAAF/Navy offer or wait for an Army offer? Don't know if I could turn down an offer from any service and roll the dice hoping for an Army offer that might not come. Don't think I could live with myself if it backfired.

14th Sep 2011, 13:34
Why do you want Army? Because SSO is a fast track? Or are you genuinely interested in the way Army does things as opposed to RAAF/Navy?

If you're simply after a fast track, put it aside and take an offer from one of the other services. No matter where you go, training is going to take time. However, if you're keen for the Army because you're green through and through, sell yourself to them.

Zulk nailed the RAAF/Navy mentality quite well. Who'd have it any other way?

14th Sep 2011, 22:13
Mate, my application is 2 and 1/2 years old so I'm not impatient that's for sure.. I've had every thing thrown at me in the selection process, been recommended twice and still here, no question of giving up.

Army is for me because I want choppers, simple as that. That's where it's at for me. If RAAF still had the choppers, that would be my 1st preference. Like I said though, I wouldn't turn down an offer from any service but my passion lies with the choppers, low level, in the weeds and carrying the troops!

15th Sep 2011, 02:14
Hey Avena,

I got a call last Friday telling me I'd been invited to the October 8th course for DEO candidates, I'm super excited about it! If anyone is on the same course, PM me so we can get in touch.

Captain Sand Dune
15th Sep 2011, 05:22
Jimbo88. Age 23. Knows all about the "RAAF/Navy mentality".:rolleyes:

Arm out the window
15th Sep 2011, 05:45
Do your 18 months at funtroon and be possibly one of the most operational pilots in Australia

You should work for an ad agency, mate ... you may also possibly not be a pilot at all, but go to one of the other corps where your closest encounter with an aircraft will be when one drops you a hotbox in your muddy shell scrape, if you're lucky!

15th Sep 2011, 06:00

Looking at jimb88's age and location, if he is a pilot we could blame you!!:}

Arm out the window
15th Sep 2011, 06:10
PS: While choppers are **** hot, bear in mind the differences in flying training between the services.

It sounds like you're set on helicopters, and that's not a bad thing at all. An operational helo conversion teaches you all kinds of good stuff, and with the types in service these days, stands you in good stead for post-service flying too.

However, the 2FTS path with its fighter slant takes you that bit further, in my opinion. If I was king and money wasn't an issue, I'd put all our military pilots through 2FTS, then send them off to train on fighters, helos, maritime, transport or whatever.

This is pie-in-the-sky stuff, but in a relatively small defence force aviation community like ours, the ability to swap pilots between types and roles, even services, would be very beneficial in many ways, not just for surge capability.

Anyway, I digress.

15th Sep 2011, 06:58
Congratulations on receiving your FSP course in October. I havenít received a call yet; hopefully I will get a call soon, fingers crossed.

15th Sep 2011, 08:44
Fail 2FTS at the right time and you can go to the army!

15th Sep 2011, 08:44
Slightly on that topic of 'Arm out the window' and Captain Sand Dune would probably be the best person to ask, what would be the chances, hypothetically speaking of course :E, of someone transferring from say RAAF/ Navy to Army during BFTS or at the completion of?

15th Sep 2011, 10:05

15th Sep 2011, 10:29
If there are any current ADF Pilots in this forum, I would like to hear from you. Please send me a Private Message.

Regards, James (fly_surfbeach)

Captain Sand Dune
16th Sep 2011, 01:29
Fail 2FTS at the right time and you can go to the army!
That has happened in the past, however Army has recently seen the light and reversed the policy of accepting another services rejects.

what would be the chances, hypothetically speaking of course , of someone transferring from say RAAF/ Navy to Army during BFTS or at the completion of?
Mate, the answer is always "no" if you don't ask! BFTS's establishment includes a senior Army officer (Major type). Go and knock on his door.

16th Sep 2011, 09:34
For someone who was considering swapping there isn't that a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

No, it's not actually.

18th Sep 2011, 02:19
Hello folks,

A question to those who may be in the forces or have more information than I do -
if you do get recommended after attending FSP, what are the chances of being selected while in the pool? Letís assume a worst case scenario and you end up with a recommendation but at the bottom of the pilot pool - is there an estimate of the number of recommended candidates in the list and the number that get to training?

Thanks. Hope that made sense. Iím just trying to gauge and make long term plans and would like to know.

18th Sep 2011, 03:05
In the current situation mate, I hate to say it but if you've got a low recommendation, it's unlikely you will get a spot. so few spots are being handed out, only the top ones are getting the nod. Army SSO is stopped completely so there's one avenue out of the picture. My first time around, I found out I had a low recommendation, was made medically unfit for Army and didn't get picked up for Raaf or Navy. I'm better placed this time around but where exactly in the pool, they wont tell you. But let's face it, you could be tenth place and if only 9 spots get offered, you miss out. Then again, a big intake maybe just around the corner. It's out of your hands at this point and I know it's hard but just stay with it. 10 years ago, it was a different story I am told, there were more spots available than people in the pool!

If you don't get a call, you can do it all again. If you want it.

18th Sep 2011, 03:44
don't forget the other part of the pool, which is it is continually being added to. So even if you are competitive and the intake numbers are down it dosen't neccssarily mean you move up in the pool when some are taken out.

18th Sep 2011, 13:24
To all those who doubt whether or not they are capable of achieving a spot in any of the forces as a pilot( or aircrew for that matter), let me paraphrase something penetratingly insightful and inspiring:

"Everyone who attempts selection has the basic mark-one body:two arms, two legs, one head and one pumping set of lungs. What makes the difference between those that make it and those that don't is what goes on in here," ( touching chest), " heart is what makes the difference. Only you know if you have got what it takes. Good luck"

-a senior , ex-SAS officer

18th Sep 2011, 22:21
Thanks cj and finestkind. It is quite disheartening to be left in a state of uncertainty even after being recommended, albeit a low one at that. Iíve still got medicals to complete, and my eyesight hopefully gets through as a marginal issue.

However, I went in to FSP with no flying. I now know what I can be and what I really am missing out on. I am more determined than ever to do whatever it takes and wait for however long the system requires me to, in order for me to wear the flying suit again, this time around with the Australian flag and my name tag on it.

Very true Sir. I drew most of my inspiration and support from these forums and the internet, so thanks for sharing.

19th Sep 2011, 01:35
cj0203 (http://www.pprune.org/members/305914-cj0203), I wasn't referring to yourself champ.

Good luck to those in the pool!

19th Sep 2011, 06:27
Goodluck to those waiting out for ADFA, if you get an offer it makes all the school stuff worthwhile.


19th Sep 2011, 08:00

Apologies mate and cheers.

Would be good to know how many, roughly, were in the pool? I thought it was around 150 when intakes are at their normal pace but I was told recently it may be as little as 50 applicants, but I can't see that being quite right? I have "heard" not as many people are getting recommended lately due to the fact that they don't want to have an overcrowded pool.

I stress, these are just things I've "heard".

19th Sep 2011, 09:17
Was just booked into an assessment day in two weeks time! I have scoured this thread, however, perhaps someone who has recently attended their assessment day can suggest some particular area to concentrate on, or criteria the interviewers are targeting more recently! Cheers and good luck to everyone working hard towards any part of the recruitment process, keep your heads up, and remember "the only difference between 'try' and 'triumph' are varying degree's of umph" - bear grylls

19th Sep 2011, 09:50
If you were talking to me Nick (pot meet kettle etc), I'm afraid that you have the wrong person....:= Never considered swapping... but I know people who have

19th Sep 2011, 10:17
Cj, my advice would be not to worry with things that are out of your control. The issue isn't whether or not there are 50 spots or 150 spots or any number above, below or in between. Make yourself as competitive as possible. The harder something is the more rewarding it is. Whether you outclass 1 person or several hundred- do your best and the universe( and the forces) will decide whether you have what it takes. All the best mate!

21st Sep 2011, 01:37
Hi all,

Just got offered a spot on DEO FSP from 15th to 29th October. :)

Anyone else heading off to this course? PM me and maybe we can swap details.



21st Sep 2011, 02:56
Hey guys,

I have read the thread and talked with a few guys but was wondering if anyone had recently done Aircrew Testing (Spec Testing) could you please PM me or post a run down. I just want to clear up a few things.

I'm finally sitting mine on the 3rd of Oct and after 2 and a half years of fight DP-AF for a transfer I finally get my chance to sit testing and I am refusing to fail!:ok:

21st Sep 2011, 08:55
Thanks lesnak (http://www.pprune.org/members/315150-lesnak)!

I have lots of resources but wondering more about how many questions in section x and time etc.

Like 22 Speed distance time questions in 25mins etc.

21st Sep 2011, 09:32
DFR wouldn't know mate, ring PSA direct

21st Sep 2011, 09:57
Not you either mate. Comment removed, not wanting to stir sh*t

Lesnak, i'll get back to you shortly :cool:

26th Sep 2011, 02:16
For those of you who have been offered positions in FSP courses coming up, have you been sent an official letter too? Or was it just a phone call?

27th Sep 2011, 02:38
Zeddy, you should receive a letter too mate

28th Sep 2011, 02:24
Hi Zeddy,

I just received the phone call and was told I'd receive an e-mail with joining instructions etc approx two weeks prior to FSP.



29th Sep 2011, 03:34
Anyone here used the services of fighterpilotmentor.com.au?

30th Sep 2011, 00:56

Ive got two questions today;

1. Once the post FSP medicals viz. Opthalmology, dental and pathology, are completed, do you receive a mail in regards to the success of the completed medicals? Or is it only if you fail a particular component, do you receive a Class 4 mail?

2. I have no idea what the eye check numbers meant, I however definitely saw a -1.25 and -1.50. I also noticed 6/12 and 6/15 on the report sheet, which we are not allowed to have a copy of. Do those numbers spell doom?

A very nervous Sep

1st Oct 2011, 04:45
Hi all,

Just finished reading this goldmine of info and would just like to extend my thanks to all who have contributed.

I'm in the process of applying for DEO RAAF Pilot and have passed my specialist testing and am awaiting an assessment day date. I also have ACO as my second preference. I was wondering if anyone could clarify what the flying training for an ACO comprises? On the defencejobs website it says that "students will receive around 22 hours of flying instruction in the Beech Super King Air 350 aircraft", however the 350 doesn't really seem like a trainees aircraft, being multi-engine and all. Is the flying training as part of the ACO course intended to demonstrate to the trainee how the pilot does their job and what the ACO's role is in relation to this?

Good luck to all going through the application process.

1st Oct 2011, 08:23
Congrats on making FSP selections everyone! Unfortunately, as I was overseas, PSA tried (and failed) to contact me to offer me a spot, so now it's back to spec testing as it's been over a year since I sat that test. Was just inquiring as I thought they might send a letter too. Not to worry though. Best of luck everyone!

1st Oct 2011, 09:15

My spec testing was/is valid for 3 years so you might only have to do assessment/OSB again.


1st Oct 2011, 23:08

The training for ACO is not at the controls of the aircraft. In the back of the King Air there is multiple (from memory around 4) Nav stations. in which the students conduct their training.

4th Oct 2011, 10:02

thanks for your post mate. I have contacted my EC, but to no avail - she says my results only stand for 1 year but sometimes they are valid for 3. I have to wait until the 17th (spec testing date) to ask the psych as to why this is. Confuses me how inconsistent it can be sometimes. alas, it will all be worth it in the end...

4th Oct 2011, 10:46
Zeddy, from my understanding your performance on the specialist testing influences the length of the validity of your results. Valid for three years is indicative of a very good result, whereas twelfth months validity is indicative of good enough results to pass.

That's just what I've read though (possibly somewhere on this forum). Hope this helps to clear things up.

Roller Merlin
4th Oct 2011, 22:40
QLD_Blue: The ACO course has changed significantly in recent years.

Star 47: Note, I am not an ACO but have been involved in the wider training processes. If interested in ACO training, you should research it further. However, since the curriculum is still changing, the basics are:

-The ACO course is held at the School of Air Warfare, RAAF East Sale, takes 48 weeks and has undergone significant changes over recent years.

-At the moment ACO Course is conducted on the B350 Kingair. There is a very strong likelihood that in 2012 some training will be also be done on PC9.

-ACO Course is streamed..that is, there is a common starting phase of around 25-30 hours flying, then specialty phases depending upon Service and eventual employment.

-Students are streamed according to ability and preferences. Air Battle Managers (previously fighter controllers) break from flying early and do a lot of training in simulated Air Warfare Simulation at SAW. Others going to Maritime concentrate on applying rear station and sensor equipment (the back end training system has recently been upgraded), and the Transport/Fast Jet streams incorporate more front seat/copilot style of operations, but not manipulating the controls...rather running the actual missions. There is heavy emphasis on managing the missions.

-Courses are now trialling the new software and syllabus. The plan is for all to combine in to a final mission-based program prior to grad.

-Fast jet stream graduates go off to Hawks then F18F. Maritime to P3 (future Poseidon), Transport to Herc, ABM to further ground-based ops and likely then onto Wedgetail, Naval Observers (similar stream to FJ) to helos.

That is a basic outline and I hope ACOs involved in the training can answer further. The program is much changed from the old pure NAV days. Cheers


10th Oct 2011, 12:12
Can anyone give me some tips on what to expect at the aptitude testing for pilot? I go for mine on Friday.

Please message or email me any help - it will be much appreciated!


El Rab
10th Oct 2011, 12:20

I'm in the same position. This post should give you an idea of what to expect: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/333897-raaf-flight-screening-program-merged-60.html#post5649518

11th Oct 2011, 07:55
Can anyone provide me with some information regarding arranging a RAAF base visit? The person now handling my papers reckons they don't have any contact details for RAAF. I was given some for RAN but I'd like to organise something at Williamtown if possible. PM me if you need to, would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Still waiting on docs to be sent to PSA.

11th Oct 2011, 10:15
Thanks mate - very handy start.

12th Oct 2011, 03:58
Thanks for that RM, very enlightening!


13th Oct 2011, 03:33
I don't suppose anyone knows about ADFA 2012 flight screening happening this year? i was told there was one more for 2012 ADFA kids and am still waiting on a date; it has however only been 2 weeks since my file was sent. Also, i'm wondering if anyone has information on girls at flight screening? Are there any differences and how many girls are there usually in comparison to dudes?

I only ask because i am re-list and worry i may be judged differently?


13th Oct 2011, 07:28
Check this link for remaining ADFA FSP courses this year- http://www.airforce.gov.au/psa/docs/schedule2011.pdf Is this what your after?

Not sure what you mean by relist? Have you done FSP before?

Females are treated the same as guys on Flight Screening I assume, I had no girls on my course so I can't be the definitive answer on this but you are all there for the same reason so there would be no differences I expect.

Hope this helps :ok:

16th Oct 2011, 12:37

yeah that's exactly what was on the test when I sat it last week,
but I failed the instrument reading test only got half way through the test feel even worse considering she said I did good/above average for all the other tests...
the tester didn't even tell me when time was nearly up so I had no idea until the test was over...

but from reading this forum alot of people have failed that test so I advise you to work as quickly as possible and set about 10 seconds per question to get the full 60 done in 9 minutes, and for one of the other harder tests the problem solving one with speed, distance and time ill give you an example of one of the harder questions on that test you should expect to see...

A plane is 1000km from an airbase travelling towards it at 300kph one hour later an interceptor from the airbase is launched travelling towards the plane at 400kph how far from the airbase do they meet.

i recommend you study up your division skills because you can't use a calculator

oh and for the spatial memory test I recommend practising the test
- Cambridge Brain Sciences (http://www.cambridgebrainsciences.com/play/spatial-span-ladder)
almost the same as the test they have except on their test you have to follow the boxes lagging 0 1 2 boxes behind I got up to 6 boxes lagging but couldn't get past 6...
for the test above I got 7 on my first try

17th Oct 2011, 11:42
400Ks away

21st Oct 2011, 21:35
What an amazing feeling. I just opened my ' Thank you for applying for a position within the ADF. We appreciate the spirit which prompted your offer but your vision sucks balls' letter. :\

EDIT: is the PRK/LASEK a permanent solution i.e. once done, does your eye sight start deteriorating again or is it fixed for life regardless on how its used / taken care of viz. long hours on the computer, reading etc.

22nd Oct 2011, 04:41
Hey guys,
I recently (two days ago) got the call up from FSP and am leaving for the 12th. I am aiming to join the Navy as a Seahawk pilot. I was just wondering, for the OSB, will they just be testing on my main preference as a navy pilot or all of the 3 that I had to select when first applying? If anyone could help out it would be greatly appreciated.

22nd Oct 2011, 07:16
You may get questions on all three. I didn't rate the ARA as a preference but still was asked about it.

One of the first questions they'll ask will be your preference for each service, regardless of your preferences going through DFR. You can pick each service as a 5 (most preferential) if you'll accept an offer from any.

22nd Oct 2011, 13:03
Cheers, i am so excited it should be amazing. I would assume that the questions are a lot harder then that of the assessment day? Or are they around about the same just a little bit more intense?

23rd Oct 2011, 04:32
Read the thread. Everything that can help you is in here.

25th Oct 2011, 10:13

I know what it is like to receive one of those disheartening letters, however, I appealed my disqualifying medical condition and was successful after many months seeing specialists and a long wait. I am sure there are avenues you can explore to overcome this hurdle although my knowledge of eyesight standards is limited. As my appeal has just been approved I will be sitting my third assessment day prior to my file being sent to flight screening so fingers crossed. As such I am surprised they conduct the opthalmology test, which I would consider to be a critical test, after flight screening? (or have I misinterpreted your case). This now has me worried, and even though I do not wear glasses my sight is not 6/6... :uhoh: I understand you do not need 6/6 vision for aircrew and I have not found too much on this forum regarding vision standards which is recent. If anyone can shed light on eyesight standards and their experiences it would be greatly appreciated.


28th Oct 2011, 04:03
is the PRK/LASEK a permanent solution i.e. once done, does your eye sight start deteriorating again or is it fixed for life regardless on how its used / taken care of viz. long hours on the computer, reading etc.

Hey Sep,
Thats sucks mate, sorry to hear. Uhhhh ok, bare in mind I'm no expert and you're best seeing someone but as far as I know from my experience: Generally, if your vision is stable when you get it (which it has to be) it SHOULD stay as corrected until you get older (40's) and then it naturally starts to deteriorate, like it does with everyone. That however may not always be the case. You do hear of people having touch ups or switching back to glasses/contacts. Also, some people may deteriorate younger etc. Think of it as a permanent set of glasses fried onto your eye...just like with glasses you get at age 20, they may not work at 30. Case by case. It does tend to last longer than glasses though and I'm pretty sure you should continue to look after your eyes as normal (reduce strain with less computer time etc.).

28th Oct 2011, 09:18
What an amazing feeling. I just opened my ' Thank you for applying for a position within the ADF. We appreciate the spirit which prompted your offer but your vision sucks balls' letter. :\

Sep, that must be heartbreaking mate. What are your plans from here?


31st Oct 2011, 01:11

Are the mathematics units you've completed at Uni equivalent to say, Maths B or Maths C (QLD senior high school maths subjects)? I never completed senior high school mathematics however I've finished up to second year university level maths and first year university physics and I haven't met with any problems.

However it would probably be best to call DFR and discuss with them.

31st Oct 2011, 02:27
Hi all,

I just finished up at FSP and am happy to say I received a recommendation. Now I just have to hope for an offer to come through and hopefully I'll be down at OTS soon. It was certainly full on but was a fun 2 weeks with a great bunch of guys. :)

Also bumped in to a couple of other ppruners who have contributed to this forum and are now at BFTS.

The only advice I can give for FSP is to work hard, have fun and be yourself! :ok:

By the way, the orange flight suits have been retired! They're now a tan/sand colour.


31st Oct 2011, 07:46
well done mate:ok:. How'd the rest of your course go?

PSA give you any indication of when offers are coming out for the 3 services?


31st Oct 2011, 21:37
We had 5 out of our course receive a recommendation, which was about on par with the course before us.

As far as distribution dates, we were told the next distribution was going to be some time in November. So fingers crossed!! :ok:


3rd Nov 2011, 13:18
G'day all,

Figured this would be the best place to ask some ADF entry questions, obviously lots of people on here have been there and done that. I'm currently studying bridging courses in maths b and physics, as I studied neither at high school. I'm a CPL(H) licensed pilot who has finally decided that I should take the plunge, do these courses, and apply to the ADF as a pilot - as I had always wanted. My preferences would be; Army rotary pilot, Navy rotary pilot, then RAAF pilot.

Obviously the entry testing is heavily maths based, but I'm wondering how amazing you need to be at maths to get through this testing successfully? My coordination, and aptitude in other areas would be above average for sure, but my maths has never been my strongest point. Basically, I am wondering if you need be a natural born mathematician to have a decent chance of getting to the FSP? From what I've read the testing is more "quick maths", not finding definite integrals and the like... I've seen the programs run by differing companies aimed at preparing you for the testing, but it's difficult to see if these are a sham, or truly useful - any advice from anyone who has been enrolled in any of them would be great! The only other thing I wonder about is how important my high school marks/marks from the courses I'm currently enrolled in are? In that I'm wondering if the previous marks are treated as a prerequisite, and the ADF's testing is what makes all the difference, or whether it all forms part of how competitive I could be.

I have chatted to some of the DFR staff about other questions, but this stuff seems like it might be better answered by people who've actually undergone the testing recently. Would really appreciate any advice.



El Rab
8th Nov 2011, 05:29
Hi Tk,

Wall of text incoming.

I did my YOU and specialised testing just a little while ago, so this should be pretty up to date. I'm no maths whiz, and I've been out of high school for more then 5 years with no sort of maths study/use in-between, and I got through. So no, you don't need to be some kind of maths whiz.

For the specialised testing, the math involved was either fast mental maths, or somewhat more involved physics style questions. They certainly won't be asking you any calculus questions. Maybe I got lucky, but I decided to give the courses a miss, and just focused on re-learning my times-tables (!) and used some of the various resources on aviation style physics questions in this thread to prepare. That seemed to get me through ok.

That said, while I passed, my results were not great (valid for one year), so to make yourself more competitive you may want to study up on that maths. I found the physics style questions especially hard.

As for your question on the importance high-school results and your current results... Honestly, who knows what the recruiters think? All you can do is do your best in your current maths courses, and go for it. Personally I think wondering about how competitive your results will make you is a waste of time, and if you're truly committed then just do your best, and don't get put off by any set-backs. I guess that's somewhat cliche, but I think that's how it is.

Good luck!

8th Nov 2011, 08:22
Thanks for that informative reply mate! Appreciate your constructing that wall ha.

I'm hoping my physics should be okay as I'm currently studying an intensive course in that! As for the maths side of things I suppose I will have to do as much practice as I can of similar tests and hope for the best. Guess I can only try my best - and then try again repeatedly until they won't let me through the doors :cool:

In relation to the actual testing format, I was under the impression that at the YOU session I would be sitting the general aptitude test, and then the second officer aptitude test - then assuming I was to pass both I would be able to book in a date for the pilot testing. That being more specialised aptitude tests, the hand eye co-ord test, interview, and essay. From there to the FSP assuming results and medicals are all good. I've recently been told that's incorrect though, and that the only thing done at the YOU session is the general ADF aptitude test... If anyone could confirm or deny that it would be most helpful!



Dilmah G
9th Nov 2011, 04:44
Hey guys,

This is pretty tangential compared to what the current discussion topic is - but has anyone tried to email Dr. Holding (http://www.aerophysics.com.au) recently? I just sent an e-mail inquiring about the ADF Pilot Aptitude Prep courses as well as the Aero Maths course and got an error almost immediately and not sure if this is something on my end or his. Does anyone know what's going on?

EDIT: Disregard above, all is well.

El Rab
9th Nov 2011, 11:31
The current format of recruiting as I know it is as follows:

Phase one: YOU
General aptitude test
Maths test - up to yr 10
ADFA officer entry test - this is only for people going for ADFA, and tests you on yr 12 math

Phase two: specialised aptitude
Instrument test
spatial skills tests
maths tests
hand-eye co-ord

Phase 3: Assessment day
Medical interview
Psych interview
Recruiter interview
Essay writing

Phase 4: FSP+OSB

13th Nov 2011, 00:42
El Rab, thanks once again. Great info, much appreciated.

Lesnak - nice work! Must be a great feeling.


20th Nov 2011, 10:32
Hi there,

I did this assesment in march and unfortunately failed :uhoh: However i am still willing to folow my dreams and give it another shot next year (when im aloud).

Now for the question; Is there an resources that i can use to improve in all sectors of the assesment. I think i was particularly bad at the "Gauge reading" and the "computer censor sticks". Does anybody know of any sites or books, I don't mind paying, just don't want it to be a waist of money :rolleyes: .

Appreciate any advice

21st Nov 2011, 08:15
Matt, as pedantic as it sounds, if this is your normal style of written skills you will need to improve in this area.

22nd Nov 2011, 03:44
Hi All,

Had my assessment day recently and unfortunately got knocked back due to my lack of leadership experience. While it is extremely disappointing, I can apply again in 12 months. 12 months to make myself a much better candidate!

My interviewer said that the OSB really is focused on leadership at the moment. This was underestimated by myself so my advice to others who may frequent this board is to have a good understanding of your own leadership capabilities so you can explain it to them confidently. Remember STAR, situation, task, action and result and you should be golden.

The recruiter mentioned avenues for potential leadership experience such as SES or Rural Fire Service volunteering, or if you work a full time job try and take on managerial roles there.

Hope this helps all who are in the process.


El Rab
22nd Nov 2011, 06:27

Bad luck! I hope you do better next time.

Do you mind mentioning what leadership experience you do have?

22nd Nov 2011, 08:48
Not a great deal really.

I have held no managerial positions in my work history, and the jobs I've had while at university haven't really had any opportunities for leadership. I'm part of the SES in QLD, but only at the entry level. I was also music captain in high school, however that was 6 years ago.

23rd Nov 2011, 03:17
Hey guys,
I've only recently found this forum from a friend who is also determined to make pilot and I've read lots of the stuff on here and I would just like to say that the information some of you have provided has so far been invaluable and greatly appreciated :)

This brings me to my question (my apologies if this has been answered alread): What are the mathematics used by a pilot whilst inside the cockpit? I am aware of formulas such as speed = distance x time but are there other conversion formulas for simple estimation and such? I know this is basic stuff but I just want to make sure I'm practicing the right stuff.

Again, thanks alot for what you've already provided!

24th Nov 2011, 01:12
the maths you will use will be speed dist time/ fuel calcs/geometry + the all important:

if my sortie starts at 1045, and its duration is 1.2, and dogs are on until 1230, will i still be able to have dogs?

I find this one quite helpful.

25th Nov 2011, 04:52
Well done Lesnak!

Good luck on course.

25th Nov 2011, 07:44
Could be something to do with budget cuts. It'd make sense after hearing a few of the figures OTS has to deal with. Save having to spend top dollar to put someone through the full 17-18 weeks only to have them scrubbed at FTS.

26th Nov 2011, 03:37
Its true what aus111c says; knowing whether dogs is on the cards before you fly is essential prep.

As for the 6 week course, they are trialling it at the moment apparently to save money (ie, because of the decent scrub-rate at pilot's course, they'd rather not put you all the way through OTS if they're going to lose you). You do the initial 6 week block which is the first (introductory) of the three OTS phases, do BFTS, then finish OTS off before 2FTS. lesnak, the most recent course at BFTS when you were here was the one with the first batch of 6-week OTS guys so its a pretty recent thing.

I don't envy that route, it was good to get it all out of the way in one go! ;)

26th Nov 2011, 05:27
Don't forget to calculate weather you can fit one or two dogs aus111c!:E

Going back in time, there was previously 6 week OTS courses for pilots as well, so perhaps they are revisiting that idea.

27th Nov 2011, 06:47
theres always room for double dogs!

unless your jack,

when you come here for flight screening, bring coin on fridays to buy dogs.

Jack Burton
27th Nov 2011, 23:01
Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has managed to get through the pilot selection process without having any previous piloting experience?

I just got through my Assessment Day and am now waiting to get the call up for the pilot screening course in Tamworth. I have been in a flight simulator, been a passenger on an aerobatic flight and done a lot of traveling around the world, but thats as far as my flying experience goes. Does anyone know if this will go against me?

28th Nov 2011, 00:03
On the contrary, it makes it easier in some ways as you don't have to 'unlearn' anything. Still have to work your b#tt off learning workcycles etc Seen quite a few with even less experience do quite well.

Good luck!

28th Nov 2011, 07:17
An article from '08:

WGCDR Smith: "A good majority of our FSP students come to us with less than five hours total flying time. While we prefer them to have done some flying so that we can be sure this is what they want to do, sometimes having more experience can impact them, but we keep an open mind".

http://www.******************/files/Basic%20Flying%20Training%20School.pdf, p. 49

Having read that though, the majority of guys I know who scored extremely well (stanine 8-9) had between 10 and 20 hours behind the controls. Read in to that what you will!

13th Dec 2011, 21:05
Hi Guys,
I got back from flight screening a few weeks ago and had a blast! I've just got some questions on stuff that was posted here lately:

Would someone please outline a few more details about this modified OTS program for pilots? Is it currently happening and will it continue to happen into next year? I had expected a 17 week OTS course then onto BFTS but this may no longer be the case?


13th Dec 2011, 23:41
any tips for getting fast jet potential???

14th Dec 2011, 03:54
Yes, 2FTS is where it all gets decided.

14th Dec 2011, 04:04
thx for that info guys, i know it isn't every day that ADFA candidates get changed to DEO but plz understand I am just trying to tell my little story of my application process. I give myself no better or worse shot than anyone else who has applied for this year or any other.

I would still appreciate some info on this modified OTS and BFTS program if any of you guys on the inside could spare a moment of your time.

Cheers guys

14th Dec 2011, 04:08
Edit: I posted about the 6 week OTS course not long ago.

14th Dec 2011, 04:10
look guys i get the point, thx for the mockery and personal attacks. I don't want to be seen as a ******** because i'm really not, this whole thing has just swept me off my feet since getting back a few weeks ago.

Just want some info on the OTS

EDIT: Mudrat, just read your post on the previous page - can't believe i didn't see it before! Did you go through the modified course path?

14th Dec 2011, 05:36
thx for the mockery and personal attacks

Standard for this place mate, dont let it get to you. Well done and best of luck!

14th Dec 2011, 08:39
Hi guys,

In celebration I have had a few drinks so sorry in advance for any sloppy grammar or spelling!

Thanks for all the help on this forum! It has helped me a lot in getting through the application process for becoming a pilot in the ADF.

I applied for the pilot position again this year in March - 5 years after I last applied when I was in grade 12 (I got knocked back for low school marks and life experience). I went to flight screening around July this year and recieved a phone call 1 month ago from the ADF letting me know that my documents would be sent down to Canberra for the RAAF and that I would recieve a phone call soon. I finally recieved that call today with an offer for DE pilot for the RAAF for the middle of February :D. Just thought I'd let you guys know for those of you waiting for the call.

Also FYI I went to flight screening with around 130 hrs of gliding and 30 hrs of powere flying. I highly recommend gliding for potential FS candidates and I believe that 5-15 hours of flying would be great a number to go to flight screening with, however that is my opinion.

If anyone else going in at the same time feel free to contact me!

Good luck to the rest of you going through this process.:ok:


14th Dec 2011, 09:46
yeah they gave me the DEO option so i've transferred to that pool now, I never had an offer from either entry avenue. But this might be BS like the "fast jet" thing too (hope not), but the board and admin guys said they wouldn't have given me the option if they didn't think I would get on course. Could just be more crap though, fingers crossed and i guess we'll see if a letter comes in the next few weeks or not!

16th Dec 2011, 07:54
How bad can the pass rate be if they are breaking up OTS to save some coin.

Nicholas, don't let the BFTS kiddies get you down. They prob wasted 3 years at adfa.

19th Dec 2011, 03:12
I've just recently applied for a position as a SSO Pilot for the Australian Army and studying up so I can make sure I score well on my aptitude test. So I've been reading on and on about people talking about some experience is better then none, but in my case - I've had alot of flight experience just never flown the planes myself.

In my family there is about 6 pilots (Pop, Aunty, Mum, Step Dad + 2 first Cousins) so I have been in the air for countless hours and know that flying is something I have always wanted to pursue. My question is, if I pass my aptitude test, should I still look at getting some hours up in a glider or other aircraft before the FSP?

19th Dec 2011, 20:43

I would suggest that you should have some"flying expereince". Getting past the aptitude test is only the first step. You have to be selected to get a position on FSP.You are a 25 y.o with what appears to be no logged hours, with numerous relatives that are pilots. How do you think this looks for motivation? Getting hours after doing the RC stuff is like putting on a condom after the act.

Trash 'n' Navs
19th Dec 2011, 21:59
Having a few hours under your belt before FSP means you can focus on the flying having gotten over the initial "wow" moments of your first few flights (in your own time) & get's you used to the sight & sounds plus hearing ATC comms in your headset. Gives you some confidence.

If funds & time allow, I'd recommend trying to get at least to your 1st solo.

If not, spend some of your prep time at least learning the phonetic alphabet.

Good luck.

19th Dec 2011, 22:37

I went to flight screening about 5 months ago and my recommendation would be to do about 5-12 hours of flying with the majority of those hours being in a glider. I recommend that you start out gliding and then around 3-4 hours in an aerobatic plane.

Gliding helped me out ALOT at flight screening as you get a good feel for rudder and aileron co-ordination. Definately get some hands on flying under your belt before you go, however a few guys on my flight screening course had 0 hours and were recommended.

Hope that helps and good luck,

19th Dec 2011, 23:03
unfortunately due to personal reason i was unable to afford flights over the last few years. I'm hoping that the knowledge i will show them will be a sign of motivation. If i can, i'll even try and fit in a logged hour between now and the aptitude test.

I will take the time to learn the phonetic alphabet. Thanks.

21st Dec 2011, 09:04
Guys, a few years ago I saw a documentary of BFTS at Tamworth. It followed a group of prospective candidates as they went through the flying and officer board. I am pretty sure it was on the ABC. Does anyone remember this and perhaps point me to where I can watch it again? Cheers

21st Dec 2011, 21:09
I'm pretty sure it was called "You've got the job", either ABC or SBS. No idea how you can get your hands on it though.

21st Dec 2011, 21:11
It was on channel 7

23rd Dec 2011, 10:21
Hi all,

Well great news. My husband applied over a year ago and medically was rejected (after being recommended for flight screening). We appealed - he went back and had to re-do physc as it only lasts a year and then was classified as 3R as he had to submit medical reports. This included blood tests, blood pressure readings and a few other little things.

We sent everything off on Monday (21/12) and they rang on Wednesday to confirm everything has been received and they are preparing the file to be sent to PSA.

Whilst army was first preference he is 1cm to tall so will go Navy and/or Airforce. Being a pilot is his preference.

We are really excited and hope to hear from PSA soon.

Lesnack - just wanted to say thanks - your posts proved invaluable. Congrats on your appointment - brilliant news!


23rd Dec 2011, 13:11
hey all,

So I'm seriously looking into applying as a pilot through ADFA.

I'm 17, and in year 12. Currently completing Mathematics (2u), English Adv, Physics, Bio and Business Studies. Additionally, I've actually completed the entire Mathematics (2u) course as I took part in an accelerated program, however fell 3 marks short of being able to sit the HSC.

One of my concerns was that if i was to apply now, will there be enough time for the entire selection process (assuming I pass each stage) to begin ADFA in 2013? I've yet to book my YOU session and was hoping to get some tips from anyone on here, a basic run down. Basically, what will happen, what i should study on..etc.

Furthermore, I have read that there are a number of different tests involved during the specialist stage, gauge, instrument, distance time questions...etc. I was hoping if someone could point me in the direction of some resources to familiarise myself?

thanks :)

25th Dec 2011, 12:56

12 months should be plenty of time. I applied in February a couple of years ago, had the YOU session in March, spec. testing April, assessment day in late May, file got to PSA mid-July, position on next available course (25 Sep - 09 Oct from memory), was told of an offer from a certain FLTLT at PSA in late October and officially received the offer in November.

Of course if your friendly DFR is not on top of their game, you'll have to poke and prod them to get the ball rolling and get yourself in for your various tests and interviews in a timely manner.

Check out google for free online IQ tests for basic stuff that you'll find in the YOU session and the RNZAF website for the more aircraft specific stuff in the spec. testing.

Enormous amount of advice on the whole process in this thread. Have a read!

Dilmah G
28th Dec 2011, 14:22

2nd Jan 2012, 00:30
Nicholas, don't let the BFTS kiddies get you down. They prob wasted 3 years at adfa.

Luckily nobody gets stirred up like this in reality though, otherwise we'd always be "down"...:uhoh:

I'm not going to ride the ever-popular ADFA bashing bandwagon; the people you're referring to didn't go to ADFA, but it is a perfectly viable choice. Whoever is considering applying for that mode of entry, don't let these erroneous attitudes have an impact your choice. There are pros and cons to both.

2nd Jan 2012, 04:52
So anyone know when and how many offers are being put out for RAAF DEO? I'm going to call around tomorrow and see what I can find out. I will post what I know after that if no one beats me to it.

Captain Sand Dune
2nd Jan 2012, 06:08
We appealed - he went back and had to re-do physc as it only lasts a year :eek:

2nd Jan 2012, 09:29
Hi Captain Sand Dune,

Not sure how to take your post, I am presuming there is humour involved :)

This has been such a long fight for my husband. He joined the army at 16, completed his apprenticeship, then HSC and was accepted for flight training. I believe at that point in time the age cut off was 26 - his dreams were shattered when he had to undergo a knee reconstruction and by the time he had rehabilitated, he had missed the cut off age - he then decided to leave the defence force after serving 10 years.

About 14 months ago I was talking to a girlfriend (as we do) and she mentioned her husband going to flight screening anyway to cut a long story short we found out the age cut off had been increased. Hence the application. I think the first time we applied was about 14 months ago and in this time my husband has lost close to 20kgs, exercises like a demon, has got his cholesterol down to normal levels by diet alone and is basically the fittest he has ever been.

It's amazing what motivation can do for you - he is so focused and I am personally so excited at the prospect of him living his dream.

Flight screening is the next step, so we are nervously anticipating the call/letter.

Worst case scenario is that he is fit and healthy but the kids and I all have our fingers and toes crossed for him.

2nd Jan 2012, 10:06

Great to see someone chasing their dream and actually applying themselves.

I do not wish to appear to be a doomsayer but unless your hubby is one of those natural freaks it is a long shot. Not wishing to pour cold water over a dream but hopefully there is some realistic appreaciation of his chances.

The grapevine has it that intake numbers are down for all three services and the RAAF is only, at the present time, after fast jet jockies.

Good luck

2nd Jan 2012, 15:32
Hi all,
I'm 15 (16 in Sep), starting year 10 this year. I want to proceed to a career as a fast jet pilot in the RAAF, but I'm not sure what to do about consulting a careers councillor and whatnot. I have picked subjects like Maths B and Aeronautical Engineering, and I do plan to join the RAAF Cadets ASAP. I don't have any medical conditions, but my right index finger had about 3mm chopped off the end in an accident on a Scout hike in 2009. I was wondering though, should I try for Direct Entry, or should I go to ADFA? I would prefer to go via Direct Entry and spend some cash on glider lessons (as suggested by multiple people on the thread) and get about 15hrs on it so I have some sort of "hands-on" experience with flying an aircraft, but if ADFA would be a better way, I wouldn't ignore it as an option.

3rd Jan 2012, 07:23
Thanks finestkind,

Yep we are realistic but the worst case is a "no" and if you don't try, you will never know.

I would say he is a bit of a freak :) so will keep you posted on his progress.


4th Jan 2012, 05:06
Hey again everyone,

I've been looking around at leadership opportunities since getting knocked back. I'm in the SES and have gone back to full-time work/part-time uni seeking a promotion at work.

I also had the though of joining the Scouts as an adult member/leader as well as the Big Brother program.

Is anyone able to give their thoughts on what stead this would put me in for the next time I'm in the interview chair?


4th Jan 2012, 21:01

The ADFA DEO question is a very personal thing to answer. They both will get you onto pilots course, one 3 years later than the other, but with a degree in hand.

You've got to weigh it up yourself, its not really something anyone else can answer for you.

Perhaps think of things like am I mature enough to tackle DEO, do I need a few years at ADFA to further develop such traits, can I stand waiting 3 years before beginning pilots course :E etc.

I had to make the same decision, and have no regrets going DEO.



El Rab
12th Jan 2012, 05:34
Hi Folks,

I'm about to go for my assesment day.

I got an interesting call just the other day. DFR rang me up to conduct a 'mock interview' for assessment day.

Is this a recent thing? I definitely do not recall a similar thing happening when I applied back in the day. It seems like a strange thing to do.

14th Jan 2012, 19:47
Just found out file to be sent to Flight Screening tomorrow. Fingers crossed we hear in the next few weeks!

14th Jan 2012, 20:14
Nicholas, don't let the BFTS kiddies get you down. They prob wasted 3 years at adfa.

Luckily nobody gets stirred up like this in reality though, otherwise we'd always be "down"...:uhoh:

I'm not going to ride the ever-popular ADFA bashing bandwagon; the people you're referring to didn't go to ADFA, but it is a perfectly viable choice. Whoever is considering applying for that mode of entry, don't let these erroneous attitudes have an impact your choice. There are pros and cons to both.

Got a bite afterall

Trent L
18th Jan 2012, 04:56
Sorry to hark back to post #2044 but ...

It was called "You've Got The Job (2006)' and was hosted by Chris Bath being aired on Ch 7.

For those desperately keen there is a DVD copy of the free to air broadcast sitting at Deakin University (Geelong) as per below link.

You've got the job (DVD video, 2006) [WorldCat.org] (http://www.worldcat.org/title/youve-got-the-job/oclc/225139210)

My recollection is that it was pretty good and although a little dated might answer a few questions for some aspiring candidates.

18th Jan 2012, 07:21
I remember watching it back in the day. From memory WDCDR Smith, currently at PSA was the guy on that doco 'grilling' the pilot applicants. Thought I recognized him from somewhere, now I remember! :E

19th Jan 2012, 08:29
Hello all,

This is my first post on the forum. Up until now, reading peoples posts on this thread has been really helpful in preparing me for things like my aptitude testing and assessment day, so thank you.

As I'm sure is the same with many of you, I have dreamed of becoming a RAAF fighter pilot since I was a little kid. Right now, however, I will accept any pilot offer in any service. I passed my assessment day for RAAF pilot and I believe DFR is sending my info to PSA this week, now I play the waiting game...

I have a few questions that, if answered, will put me at ease until, God willing, I get that phone call inviting me to a FSP course.

Firstly, DFR explained to me that once you pass your assessment day and your file is passed on to PSA, you are assigned a quantified value and placed in a rank with all the other candidates. The highest ranking 7 or 9 candidates (depending on the number of places available on each course) are invited to the next FSP course.
Does anyone have a rough idea of the ratio of candidates who pass their assessment day to the candidates who get a spot on a FSP course?

When quantifying your 'potential', I gather PSA accounts for factors like motivation, pilot aptitude performance, leadership potential and suitability as an ADF officer.
I dont suppose anyone knows how they calculate your value in the ranking?

And finally, for those that have been on FSP, how much notice do they give you before your course starts?

Appreciate your help

20th Jan 2012, 02:51

PM sent

20th Jan 2012, 09:56
G'day All,

I had my "YOU Session" recently and was given the date for my specialist pilot testing. I just have a couple of quick queries about this testing that I hoped anyone who had recently undergone it might be able to answer for me...

I am aware that it will involve essay writing, more maths testing, coordination testing, aviation related comprehension tests, and memory testing. I am really just concerned about the further maths testing. I was under the impression it was mostly speed/distance/time style questions - not overly difficult but teamed up with a short time limit! I wondered if there was other mathematical testing than this; eg, trigonometric questions similar to that of the YOU Session, regular arithmetic questions such as 3905678 x .004357 etc etc. Would very much appreciate any insight into this, and also if anyone is able to confirm or deny whether there is further reading comprehension, or abstract reasoning testing. I presume there is no interview or medical testing on the specialist testing day, and that that all comes down the track at the assessment day?...

Thanks in advance for any help guys,

Good luck with your testing!

21st Jan 2012, 12:00
hey again, just had another few questions...

the first one being that before you initially apply to the ADF, what should you do, what documents should you have, physical capabilities, service knowledge etc. Basically, what do you need to do and what is involved in the YOU session for someone wanting to be a pilot.

Also, if anyone knows any links for pilot specific aptitude tests, speed/dist/time problems etc

thanks guys, much appreciated.

25th Jan 2012, 03:08
The testing is mostly maths/logical reasoning questions. There are some aviation based questions. However, I wouldnt worry about trying to find pilot aptitude tests to practice, they usually cost money and aren't really going to prepare you any more than standard aptitude tests. Just google maths aptitude testing and do some practice tests online. If you can get quick at mental arithmatic and logical reasoning this way, you can easily apply your abilities to aviation based questions. That was my findings anyway. My main problem in the testing was solving a given problem, answering the question but feeling the urge to double check it before moving to the next question. You dont have time, quickly solve the problem, go with your gut and move on to the next question.

I dont remember there being comprehension but there is abstract reasoning.

The hand-eye coordination testing is hard to prepare for, I reckon you've either got it or you dont. I guess playing games on xbox360/PS3, especially actions games, where you're using both thumbsticks on the controller will increase your dexterity somewhat (and will make studying more fun!).

No interview and no medical, thats for assessment day.

The answers to all those questions can easily be found on the DFR website, you need to do your research. Also, if theres anything you're unsure of, call them and a recruiter will point you in the right direction, a phone call also shows your motivated.

Hope this helps!

27th Jan 2012, 08:57
Is anyone going to Flight Screening for the Feb intake? or has anyone received a letter from Flight Screening saying their file has been received?

28th Jan 2012, 09:25

I am awaiting a call regarding flight screening with my file sent to PSA earlier this month. I believe you cannot really put a timeframe on the phone call regarding any allocation and you can only assume they received the file when DFR sent it. If I am wrong, mine must have been "lost" in the post :ooh: Best of luck.


29th Jan 2012, 00:50
Hey everyone

I too am waiting for my file to be sent to ADFPSA. As far as I'm aware, about a month after your file has been sent to Tamworth, you will receive a letter from ADFPSA confirming they have received your file.

Here's a link to the courses available for this year:


Hope this helps

31st Jan 2012, 00:00
If you want to check on the status of your file, just call CPL Maher - if you don't have her number PM me for details. They're scoring the files at the moment for the march-april FSP's...

31st Jan 2012, 00:52
Does anyone know anything about the next RAAF distribution? I am told there will be a course in May, but I'm trying to figure out how early they are likely to make selections as my OSB expires in March and PSA don't appear to have scheduled any OSB only courses before then.

31st Jan 2012, 01:04
Caity1835 - Give your YOU case manager a call. They will be able to get an answer fairly quickly.
Hope this helps.

31st Jan 2012, 19:06
Thanks Zeddy - fingers crossed we get a call soon

31st Jan 2012, 21:18

Yeah I spoke to my case manager, but she doesn't know what's happening. I might try Corporal Maher, but experience says she doesn't give away much information...

Dilmah G
1st Feb 2012, 00:10
Hey fellas,

Not to detract from the current discussion RE:FSP/Distributions, but has anyone else here done time in the Reserves prior to becoming pilots?

I had my YOU session yesterday, did (and dressed :ok:) reasonably well and put down for Army Reserve GSO. Logic being that 3/4 years part time during uni would be a good way to go about things as opposed to not doing anything + the stuff they get up to down here seems fairly sweet.

I'm just curious as to whether it would make it harder to become a pilot in the long run because of the wishes of the Commanding Officer and the bureaucracy? I assumed by the fact that several of the earlier posters had made the transition that it was possible, however I've heard a few rumours here and there about blokes being forced to leave the Reserves altogether and apply again for a full time role.

1st Feb 2012, 03:39
Well, March it is! Got an offer yesterday for flight screening. Absolutely stoked!

1st Feb 2012, 05:47
Great news mate!
You will love Tamworth, hot in the day and freezing at night ;)

Best of luck!

1st Feb 2012, 11:44
well done "oneflewnorth". Can I ask did you receive the letter first saying they received your file or did you get the phone call first?


1st Feb 2012, 23:44
I never got a letter saying my file was received. I called my co-ordinator and asked if it was sent/received because I hadn't heard anything after a month or more. The offer was a call though. So if you're unsure, just call.

3rd Feb 2012, 01:31
Hi Guys,
Anyone else here on the Mid Feb OTS intake? If so, drop me a PM or e-mail as I am too.


7th Feb 2012, 10:36
Hi all. First post in the forum for me. Thanks to everyone for their contributions because it has been of great help to me.

I have completed the YOU session and have my pick of the litter, however I'm stuck with a past issue on my medical history.
I'm told I'll get a letter from an ADF/recruitment doc asking for more details or saying that I'm not eligible to join. I'm hoping it's the former and that things go relatively smoothly, because if they dont then I'll most definitely be appealing the decision.
Anyone know how long the appeals process takes?

8th Feb 2012, 03:03
Hi Crazy Dingo,

You will find heaps of posts in here about appealing. I suppose it depends what they pick up in the medical. For example my husband was on Lipitor for high cholesterol so in order for him to be deemed fit he had to be without medication for 3 months and then get his blood tests done again. He also had to see a knee surgeon and nose surgeon as his nose has been broken.

Also because he was over 35? he had to have routine blood tests.

I thought the appeal process was actually quite fast once they received all the information - from memory it was a few weeks. His file is now at Tamworth and we are just waiting for a call..............

In the end I suppose it's about how bad you want it - there are many times when you question the process, time etc but it's all part of the journey.

I wish you the best of luck


8th Feb 2012, 11:01
I broke my elbow a few years back, so they aren't too happy about that. I saw that someone else here wrote that their friend didn't get in because of the same issue.
I'll see what the letter says and work it out from there I guess.

13th Feb 2012, 02:51
Hi all,

Well husband got his call this morning to attend Flight Screening in March - so excited!!!! and I'm not going anywhere!


Arm out the window
13th Feb 2012, 03:05
Good on you, Liz, and congratulations to your husband.

I'm sure you already know it's a big committment, and a supportive spouse as it seems you are will be a massive help to him throughout the course.

I wasn't married when I went through (a long time ago) but I remember how all-consuming it gets, so hang in there both of you and good luck.

There are numerous things in military life that can stuff you round and get you down, but for someone who's intent on pursuing the job, it can also be very rewarding.

13th Feb 2012, 05:58
Hi Arm out the window,

Thanks - we are all really excited. The kids and I are fully aware of the commitment that is required and are more than happy to support him in this.

Getting to flight screening has had it's challenges but so worth now he is on his way!


15th Feb 2012, 07:17
Army SSO and Navy offers went out today. Congrats to those who got the call

15th Feb 2012, 22:55
Got a call for RAAF distribution today! Anyone else get one???

20th Feb 2012, 08:48
Anyone here a current serving pilot in either the Army or RAAF and based in Sydney?

If so, could you PM me if you would be willing to meet up some time so I could have a chat with you and ask you some questions about your experiences and views to do with your career?

I tried to call the defence forces switchboard, but they said I had to do it through my careers counsellor. The only problem being that my careers counsellor says he has no contacts and doesn't seem to be able to get any for me (which I find odd and exceedingly disappointing).

20th Feb 2012, 09:10
G'day everyone,

I have finally been granted an opportunity to sit for the additional testing for ADF pilot, and I am looking forward it. I have read this thread from top to toe and have discovered a wealth of quality information that has helped to keep me on the right track over the years.

If there is anyone out there who would like to share their recent experience of the additional testing day in public or by a private Message, I would very much like to hear from you.

My testing date is the 1st March in Parramatta. If anyone has the same testing day and would like to meet up beforehand for a chat, PM me, im buying the coffee.


21st Feb 2012, 00:41
I have applied for an ACO position and have my specialist testing this week. I am trying to get prepared for it and have been reading over the threads but the information seems to contradict each other a lot. Some posts have stated that the testing involves writing an essay on why you want to join the ADF and tests on general ADF knowledge, but I was under the impression this was done on the Assessment Day and the specialist testing was just going to be a harder version of aptitude testing. Am I wrong on this? If anyone who has done their specialist testing recently could let me know, it would be greatly appreciated.

21st Feb 2012, 08:35
anyone know program after pilot aptitude test day? waiting a call from DFR. how long to wait for 2-week flying program and how long after that for initial training? What is the flight test profiles during the 2 weeks? Cheers, TS

21st Feb 2012, 21:30

From memory the pilot specialist testing takes a bit over half the day and consists of some general math, flying specific math and hand eye coordination tests. It took me about 4 months between my initial application and getting a call for PSA which I did last March and I only just got a call for distribution last week to probably start in May. On the other hand I have friends who only waited about 2 months, it all depends what service you prefer and when they're hiring.

22nd Feb 2012, 09:35
Well, got the invitation to flight screening in March, however I cannot attend due to a wedding overseas. As such it looks as though the next opportunity will be in May. Good luck to all attending.

Liz, if possible, I would be interested in getting your partner's feedback and advice upon his return? Best of luck.


23rd Feb 2012, 09:13
Hi Dan,

No problem at all - what a bummer - do they give you another date to attend? - I'll post when he returns.


23rd Feb 2012, 10:39
Liz, all I know is that I will be placed back in the selection process for the May courses. Hopefully it all works out. With this application going on 2 years, this was bound to happen :ugh:

Talk soon


24th Feb 2012, 09:30
Anyone recommend a good aviation degree/course either online or in the Brisbane area?


25th Feb 2012, 21:04
Hi, could anyone please confirm if there is an in-depth psych interview on the pilot specific testing day.

Cheers, Russ.

25th Feb 2012, 21:54
Testing only on that day. Psych on Assessment day.

25th Feb 2012, 23:56
Thanks CJ


26th Feb 2012, 09:23
And what is assessment profile (flight test activities) from PSA during two weeks??

28th Feb 2012, 06:57
First of all- a big congratulations to caity for making a dream come true!
All the hard work has paid off and I wish you all the best!

Secondly, can anyone suggest further study material. I have the ARCO military aptitude booklet and used that last time I sat my Pilot Spec. testing however I was looking at more material to better prepare me. I've glanced over some ASVAB booklets(American- I know). Anyone have links or further reading material that might better prepare me?

Cheers, and if anyone has any questions on the application process I've been through it all so don't hesitate to ask.

28th Feb 2012, 21:40
Thanks heaps afraid_of_heights!

The only book I used is Get Your Wings. It has info about all the courses and tests to get your ADF wings and some practice questions.

Get Your Wings (http://www.getyourwings.com.au/)

Hope this helps!

29th Feb 2012, 01:00
Hey everyone. First time poster to this forum. Just thought i would let you know that i got the call to attend flight screening in March. :)

29th Feb 2012, 10:12
Hi again,
Just had a quick question....at the YOU session I understand that there is a general aptitude test, but is there also further mathematical testing as well or any other testing in general?

EDIT: would it be anything along these lines? At any stage of the recruitment process that is. I understand that this specific testing is for NAVY. Defence International Training Centre (http://www.defence.gov.au/ditc/courses/maths/default.htm)


btw, congratulations harry :D

Dilmah G
29th Feb 2012, 11:34
Hey mate, I'm not exactly sure if you encounter any additional maths testing on YOU day specifically if you identify yourself as a Pilot candidate but from my experience of YOU sesh there is a maths test of about 15-25 questions at most that you do right after your GAT.

It's not very hard at all (as repeated many times throughout this thread). If you use maths and any kind of algebra in your everyday life as well as recall the foundations of Year 10 mathematics such as 3/4/5 triangles and which side of the triangle is the hypotenuse (which was a serious question that people at my YOU sesh couldn't answer during the testing) you should ace it. It is much easier than the maths in the link you've posted if that gives you an idea.

29th Feb 2012, 19:21
Thanks Pacificjet,

As i am already a serving member in the RAAF I believe my testing may be slightly different to someone from outside. Basically on the day of your apptitude test you will be required to complete approximately 6 different tests as well as write a 15 minute essay and also complete a Physc interview. The test include a general apptitude test that all personel do regardless of mustering. The other 5 are pilot related tests. including instrument reading, aircraft orientation and maths. I cant recall them all exactly but i hope this helps.

2nd Mar 2012, 07:00
Caity thanks so much!
Had a look at some of the free samples and even they are incredible!
Been looking for something like this for a long time. I appreciate it!

Congrats Harry :ok:

3rd Mar 2012, 01:34
So got back from the YOU session yesterday. Everything went fine. Apparently I'll get a call from the case manager soon to book me into my Spec Testing. On this note, I was wondering if I could grab any advice of anyone on here in terms of things such as; what's involved in the testing, is there any physics involved etc. Basically anything to give me an idea about the Spec Testing.

Thanks guys.

4th Mar 2012, 08:41
G'day all,

I've got an upcoming assesment day, I've been doing a lot of reading in prep for it but there are a few queries I cannot find answers for anywhere. If anyone could prove some insight into these I'd be most grateful!

1. Is there additional maths/aptitude testing on the assessment day? I am NOT going for ADFA entry but have read contradictory info on this... I was hoping that was done and dusted with my Spec testing!

2. Was the essay done at the start of the day, was it on a "topic", or just a series of three questions? Once again I've read both things and was hoping to do a bit of preparation...

Feel free to PM if you would prefer that to replying.

Thanks for any help!

All the best with your recruitment.

Torque Monkey
5th Mar 2012, 08:30
Caketin: PM Sent

5th Mar 2012, 11:24
Appeal now submitted due to being categorised as Class 4. Just a minor hurdle to overcome!

I have had no details from my careers counsellor (CC) regarding contacts for currently serving pilots in the ADF. He says he has no contacts to get in touch with.
I was told that I can only get these meetings arranged through my careers counsellor, so should I attempt to get a different one? Has anyone else come across this problem? I don't want to be disrespectful to my CC, but I feel that having a discussion with current serving pilots in the RAAF and Army (applied for both) is more important.

6th Mar 2012, 07:59

From what I've been told (and it seems to change on a case by case basis-that's just DFR) you must first pass your assessment day and be recommended to be able to visit a base and speak to a pilot.

My case manager told me that if every YOU session applicant for a pilot role was given an opportunity to speak to a pilot they'd never get a chance to fly. That being said I have had an opportunity to speak with an army helicopter pilot. I might be able to find his number if you send me a PM. Otherwise, just keep pushing through and hopefully you'll get the opportunity after you pass your assessment day.

24th Mar 2012, 10:07

i just contacted my local raaf base (east sale) saying that i was interested in becoming a pilot and would like to come down and talk to some of the pilots and have a look around, got a email back, talked to someone down there who helped me arrange it. (and CFS is extreamly busy)

so i would just contact the base directly, call 1800 033 200 and ask to speak to the base of your choosing.

hope this helps

24th Mar 2012, 22:04
I'll definitely give that a try, thanks

25th Mar 2012, 23:57
Back from Tamworth and got recommended which I'm pumped about. Offers are out soon apparently so hopefully something comes. Thanks for all the help everyone's given, really appreciate it.

26th Mar 2012, 11:43
hey everyone, first post :)

So i have my additional pilot testing coming up soon, just wanted to ask a few questions. it would be greatly appreciated.

Basically, what kind of mathematics is involved, any essay writing or the like, is there a memory test, or any instrument reading? Basically absolutely ANYTHING ANYONE can tell me, would be of the utmost help.

thank you very much. :D

26th Mar 2012, 23:38
That's the next thing on my list, so I'd like to know too!

27th Mar 2012, 05:01
Read the thread

27th Mar 2012, 11:52
To be fair, it's a very long thread. I was being lazy because it took me so long to read through it all the first time.

However, I went back a bit and I found this:

"Phase two: specialised aptitude
Instrument test
spatial skills tests
maths tests
hand-eye co-ord"

Anyone that has done it recently? Is it up to date? Did you find any particular part more difficult than the rest? What exactly is the instrument test?

27th Mar 2012, 22:53
To be fair, it's a very long thread. I was being lazy because it took me so long to read through it all the first time.

To be fair, pilots course is much longer.

28th Mar 2012, 08:51
Thanks to everyone for their help on this forum over the past 3 years. Today I got the distribution call for Army SSO. Best news I've ever had in my whole life. It has been a rocky ride and I nearly gave up but now the real hard yards begin and I can't wait :ok:

29th Mar 2012, 06:47
hey guys, had my additional testing today and passed, so all's good for the assessment day :D

Just wanted to let people know that is they want to ask any questions (even if they've read the thread, searched online etc, I know i did, that they can PM me any time, and ill try my best to answer them.)

Good luck everyone else!

29th Mar 2012, 11:08
Hi dudes and dudettes,

Just a big thank you to you all for providing all this information. It is hard to read through the whole thread but it's worth it. Two years ago near the end of uni I "was thinking about it", and over time the desire to become a RAAF pilot just really took hold.

How much I've learnt in the past 2 years about the job, it's unbelievable the misconceptions that I had and that most people who will never apply will always have.

Anyway, I'm posting for a reason and that's to ask a question (like everyone else here!). I've done my YOU day, done my Assessment day. I had an issue with childhood asthma but after a specialist test it was all cleared after a week or so and about 2 months ago after repeated calls to my case manager I finally found out that my file had been sent to the PSA.

My question is this: it's been 2 months, and could be another 10. Is there any way at all of finding out how competitive one is compared to the rest of the cohort? I know I'm not top top because I've seen others bragging (just being happy) about their FSP dates in here which means I've been passed over at least twice. Any ideas? Or do I just sit and wait and get on with things for a year hoping for a call? To be honest I don't get why they don't tell you how you score, at least then you can have some kind of closure or hope either way!

Thanks guys.

30th Mar 2012, 04:09
@ yossarian88

If I recall correctly you should have been given a contact number for PSA in the letter stating that your file has been received. My suggestion would be to give them a call and ask how you're sitting. I did the same and they were quite helpful.


31st Mar 2012, 05:07

its a floating pool, changes weekly.