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Trash 'n' Navs
19th Dec 2011, 21:59
Having a few hours under your belt before FSP means you can focus on the flying having gotten over the initial "wow" moments of your first few flights (in your own time) & get's you used to the sight & sounds plus hearing ATC comms in your headset. Gives you some confidence.

If funds & time allow, I'd recommend trying to get at least to your 1st solo.

If not, spend some of your prep time at least learning the phonetic alphabet.

Good luck.

19th Dec 2011, 22:37

I went to flight screening about 5 months ago and my recommendation would be to do about 5-12 hours of flying with the majority of those hours being in a glider. I recommend that you start out gliding and then around 3-4 hours in an aerobatic plane.

Gliding helped me out ALOT at flight screening as you get a good feel for rudder and aileron co-ordination. Definately get some hands on flying under your belt before you go, however a few guys on my flight screening course had 0 hours and were recommended.

Hope that helps and good luck,

19th Dec 2011, 23:03
unfortunately due to personal reason i was unable to afford flights over the last few years. I'm hoping that the knowledge i will show them will be a sign of motivation. If i can, i'll even try and fit in a logged hour between now and the aptitude test.

I will take the time to learn the phonetic alphabet. Thanks.

21st Dec 2011, 09:04
Guys, a few years ago I saw a documentary of BFTS at Tamworth. It followed a group of prospective candidates as they went through the flying and officer board. I am pretty sure it was on the ABC. Does anyone remember this and perhaps point me to where I can watch it again? Cheers

21st Dec 2011, 21:09
I'm pretty sure it was called "You've got the job", either ABC or SBS. No idea how you can get your hands on it though.

21st Dec 2011, 21:11
It was on channel 7

23rd Dec 2011, 10:21
Hi all,

Well great news. My husband applied over a year ago and medically was rejected (after being recommended for flight screening). We appealed - he went back and had to re-do physc as it only lasts a year and then was classified as 3R as he had to submit medical reports. This included blood tests, blood pressure readings and a few other little things.

We sent everything off on Monday (21/12) and they rang on Wednesday to confirm everything has been received and they are preparing the file to be sent to PSA.

Whilst army was first preference he is 1cm to tall so will go Navy and/or Airforce. Being a pilot is his preference.

We are really excited and hope to hear from PSA soon.

Lesnack - just wanted to say thanks - your posts proved invaluable. Congrats on your appointment - brilliant news!


23rd Dec 2011, 13:11
hey all,

So I'm seriously looking into applying as a pilot through ADFA.

I'm 17, and in year 12. Currently completing Mathematics (2u), English Adv, Physics, Bio and Business Studies. Additionally, I've actually completed the entire Mathematics (2u) course as I took part in an accelerated program, however fell 3 marks short of being able to sit the HSC.

One of my concerns was that if i was to apply now, will there be enough time for the entire selection process (assuming I pass each stage) to begin ADFA in 2013? I've yet to book my YOU session and was hoping to get some tips from anyone on here, a basic run down. Basically, what will happen, what i should study on..etc.

Furthermore, I have read that there are a number of different tests involved during the specialist stage, gauge, instrument, distance time questions...etc. I was hoping if someone could point me in the direction of some resources to familiarise myself?

thanks :)

25th Dec 2011, 12:56

12 months should be plenty of time. I applied in February a couple of years ago, had the YOU session in March, spec. testing April, assessment day in late May, file got to PSA mid-July, position on next available course (25 Sep - 09 Oct from memory), was told of an offer from a certain FLTLT at PSA in late October and officially received the offer in November.

Of course if your friendly DFR is not on top of their game, you'll have to poke and prod them to get the ball rolling and get yourself in for your various tests and interviews in a timely manner.

Check out google for free online IQ tests for basic stuff that you'll find in the YOU session and the RNZAF website for the more aircraft specific stuff in the spec. testing.

Enormous amount of advice on the whole process in this thread. Have a read!

Dilmah G
28th Dec 2011, 14:22

2nd Jan 2012, 00:30
Nicholas, don't let the BFTS kiddies get you down. They prob wasted 3 years at adfa.

Luckily nobody gets stirred up like this in reality though, otherwise we'd always be "down"...:uhoh:

I'm not going to ride the ever-popular ADFA bashing bandwagon; the people you're referring to didn't go to ADFA, but it is a perfectly viable choice. Whoever is considering applying for that mode of entry, don't let these erroneous attitudes have an impact your choice. There are pros and cons to both.

2nd Jan 2012, 04:52
So anyone know when and how many offers are being put out for RAAF DEO? I'm going to call around tomorrow and see what I can find out. I will post what I know after that if no one beats me to it.

Captain Sand Dune
2nd Jan 2012, 06:08
We appealed - he went back and had to re-do physc as it only lasts a year :eek:

2nd Jan 2012, 09:29
Hi Captain Sand Dune,

Not sure how to take your post, I am presuming there is humour involved :)

This has been such a long fight for my husband. He joined the army at 16, completed his apprenticeship, then HSC and was accepted for flight training. I believe at that point in time the age cut off was 26 - his dreams were shattered when he had to undergo a knee reconstruction and by the time he had rehabilitated, he had missed the cut off age - he then decided to leave the defence force after serving 10 years.

About 14 months ago I was talking to a girlfriend (as we do) and she mentioned her husband going to flight screening anyway to cut a long story short we found out the age cut off had been increased. Hence the application. I think the first time we applied was about 14 months ago and in this time my husband has lost close to 20kgs, exercises like a demon, has got his cholesterol down to normal levels by diet alone and is basically the fittest he has ever been.

It's amazing what motivation can do for you - he is so focused and I am personally so excited at the prospect of him living his dream.

Flight screening is the next step, so we are nervously anticipating the call/letter.

Worst case scenario is that he is fit and healthy but the kids and I all have our fingers and toes crossed for him.

2nd Jan 2012, 10:06

Great to see someone chasing their dream and actually applying themselves.

I do not wish to appear to be a doomsayer but unless your hubby is one of those natural freaks it is a long shot. Not wishing to pour cold water over a dream but hopefully there is some realistic appreaciation of his chances.

The grapevine has it that intake numbers are down for all three services and the RAAF is only, at the present time, after fast jet jockies.

Good luck

2nd Jan 2012, 15:32
Hi all,
I'm 15 (16 in Sep), starting year 10 this year. I want to proceed to a career as a fast jet pilot in the RAAF, but I'm not sure what to do about consulting a careers councillor and whatnot. I have picked subjects like Maths B and Aeronautical Engineering, and I do plan to join the RAAF Cadets ASAP. I don't have any medical conditions, but my right index finger had about 3mm chopped off the end in an accident on a Scout hike in 2009. I was wondering though, should I try for Direct Entry, or should I go to ADFA? I would prefer to go via Direct Entry and spend some cash on glider lessons (as suggested by multiple people on the thread) and get about 15hrs on it so I have some sort of "hands-on" experience with flying an aircraft, but if ADFA would be a better way, I wouldn't ignore it as an option.

3rd Jan 2012, 07:23
Thanks finestkind,

Yep we are realistic but the worst case is a "no" and if you don't try, you will never know.

I would say he is a bit of a freak :) so will keep you posted on his progress.


4th Jan 2012, 05:06
Hey again everyone,

I've been looking around at leadership opportunities since getting knocked back. I'm in the SES and have gone back to full-time work/part-time uni seeking a promotion at work.

I also had the though of joining the Scouts as an adult member/leader as well as the Big Brother program.

Is anyone able to give their thoughts on what stead this would put me in for the next time I'm in the interview chair?


4th Jan 2012, 21:01

The ADFA DEO question is a very personal thing to answer. They both will get you onto pilots course, one 3 years later than the other, but with a degree in hand.

You've got to weigh it up yourself, its not really something anyone else can answer for you.

Perhaps think of things like am I mature enough to tackle DEO, do I need a few years at ADFA to further develop such traits, can I stand waiting 3 years before beginning pilots course :E etc.

I had to make the same decision, and have no regrets going DEO.



El Rab
12th Jan 2012, 05:34
Hi Folks,

I'm about to go for my assesment day.

I got an interesting call just the other day. DFR rang me up to conduct a 'mock interview' for assessment day.

Is this a recent thing? I definitely do not recall a similar thing happening when I applied back in the day. It seems like a strange thing to do.

14th Jan 2012, 19:47
Just found out file to be sent to Flight Screening tomorrow. Fingers crossed we hear in the next few weeks!

14th Jan 2012, 20:14
Nicholas, don't let the BFTS kiddies get you down. They prob wasted 3 years at adfa.

Luckily nobody gets stirred up like this in reality though, otherwise we'd always be "down"...:uhoh:

I'm not going to ride the ever-popular ADFA bashing bandwagon; the people you're referring to didn't go to ADFA, but it is a perfectly viable choice. Whoever is considering applying for that mode of entry, don't let these erroneous attitudes have an impact your choice. There are pros and cons to both.

Got a bite afterall

Trent L
18th Jan 2012, 04:56
Sorry to hark back to post #2044 but ...

It was called "You've Got The Job (2006)' and was hosted by Chris Bath being aired on Ch 7.

For those desperately keen there is a DVD copy of the free to air broadcast sitting at Deakin University (Geelong) as per below link.

You've got the job (DVD video, 2006) [WorldCat.org] (http://www.worldcat.org/title/youve-got-the-job/oclc/225139210)

My recollection is that it was pretty good and although a little dated might answer a few questions for some aspiring candidates.

18th Jan 2012, 07:21
I remember watching it back in the day. From memory WDCDR Smith, currently at PSA was the guy on that doco 'grilling' the pilot applicants. Thought I recognized him from somewhere, now I remember! :E

19th Jan 2012, 08:29
Hello all,

This is my first post on the forum. Up until now, reading peoples posts on this thread has been really helpful in preparing me for things like my aptitude testing and assessment day, so thank you.

As I'm sure is the same with many of you, I have dreamed of becoming a RAAF fighter pilot since I was a little kid. Right now, however, I will accept any pilot offer in any service. I passed my assessment day for RAAF pilot and I believe DFR is sending my info to PSA this week, now I play the waiting game...

I have a few questions that, if answered, will put me at ease until, God willing, I get that phone call inviting me to a FSP course.

Firstly, DFR explained to me that once you pass your assessment day and your file is passed on to PSA, you are assigned a quantified value and placed in a rank with all the other candidates. The highest ranking 7 or 9 candidates (depending on the number of places available on each course) are invited to the next FSP course.
Does anyone have a rough idea of the ratio of candidates who pass their assessment day to the candidates who get a spot on a FSP course?

When quantifying your 'potential', I gather PSA accounts for factors like motivation, pilot aptitude performance, leadership potential and suitability as an ADF officer.
I dont suppose anyone knows how they calculate your value in the ranking?

And finally, for those that have been on FSP, how much notice do they give you before your course starts?

Appreciate your help

20th Jan 2012, 02:51

PM sent

20th Jan 2012, 09:56
G'day All,

I had my "YOU Session" recently and was given the date for my specialist pilot testing. I just have a couple of quick queries about this testing that I hoped anyone who had recently undergone it might be able to answer for me...

I am aware that it will involve essay writing, more maths testing, coordination testing, aviation related comprehension tests, and memory testing. I am really just concerned about the further maths testing. I was under the impression it was mostly speed/distance/time style questions - not overly difficult but teamed up with a short time limit! I wondered if there was other mathematical testing than this; eg, trigonometric questions similar to that of the YOU Session, regular arithmetic questions such as 3905678 x .004357 etc etc. Would very much appreciate any insight into this, and also if anyone is able to confirm or deny whether there is further reading comprehension, or abstract reasoning testing. I presume there is no interview or medical testing on the specialist testing day, and that that all comes down the track at the assessment day?...

Thanks in advance for any help guys,

Good luck with your testing!

21st Jan 2012, 12:00
hey again, just had another few questions...

the first one being that before you initially apply to the ADF, what should you do, what documents should you have, physical capabilities, service knowledge etc. Basically, what do you need to do and what is involved in the YOU session for someone wanting to be a pilot.

Also, if anyone knows any links for pilot specific aptitude tests, speed/dist/time problems etc

thanks guys, much appreciated.

22nd Jan 2012, 09:17
Hey Liz, really glad to hear that your appeal worked, good luck with it all. :)

Queestce and Pacificjet, the ARCO Military Flight Aptitude Tests booklet is great preparation for specialist testing. It's not all applicable but it does have some useful examples and sample tests for you to do. You can buy it here http://www.amazon.com/Military-Flight-Aptitude-Petersons-Master/dp/076891700X

25th Jan 2012, 03:08
The testing is mostly maths/logical reasoning questions. There are some aviation based questions. However, I wouldnt worry about trying to find pilot aptitude tests to practice, they usually cost money and aren't really going to prepare you any more than standard aptitude tests. Just google maths aptitude testing and do some practice tests online. If you can get quick at mental arithmatic and logical reasoning this way, you can easily apply your abilities to aviation based questions. That was my findings anyway. My main problem in the testing was solving a given problem, answering the question but feeling the urge to double check it before moving to the next question. You dont have time, quickly solve the problem, go with your gut and move on to the next question.

I dont remember there being comprehension but there is abstract reasoning.

The hand-eye coordination testing is hard to prepare for, I reckon you've either got it or you dont. I guess playing games on xbox360/PS3, especially actions games, where you're using both thumbsticks on the controller will increase your dexterity somewhat (and will make studying more fun!).

No interview and no medical, thats for assessment day.

The answers to all those questions can easily be found on the DFR website, you need to do your research. Also, if theres anything you're unsure of, call them and a recruiter will point you in the right direction, a phone call also shows your motivated.

Hope this helps!

27th Jan 2012, 08:57
Is anyone going to Flight Screening for the Feb intake? or has anyone received a letter from Flight Screening saying their file has been received?

28th Jan 2012, 09:25

I am awaiting a call regarding flight screening with my file sent to PSA earlier this month. I believe you cannot really put a timeframe on the phone call regarding any allocation and you can only assume they received the file when DFR sent it. If I am wrong, mine must have been "lost" in the post :ooh: Best of luck.


29th Jan 2012, 00:50
Hey everyone

I too am waiting for my file to be sent to ADFPSA. As far as I'm aware, about a month after your file has been sent to Tamworth, you will receive a letter from ADFPSA confirming they have received your file.

Here's a link to the courses available for this year:


Hope this helps

31st Jan 2012, 00:00
If you want to check on the status of your file, just call CPL Maher - if you don't have her number PM me for details. They're scoring the files at the moment for the march-april FSP's...

31st Jan 2012, 00:52
Does anyone know anything about the next RAAF distribution? I am told there will be a course in May, but I'm trying to figure out how early they are likely to make selections as my OSB expires in March and PSA don't appear to have scheduled any OSB only courses before then.

31st Jan 2012, 01:04
Caity1835 - Give your YOU case manager a call. They will be able to get an answer fairly quickly.
Hope this helps.

31st Jan 2012, 19:06
Thanks Zeddy - fingers crossed we get a call soon

31st Jan 2012, 21:18

Yeah I spoke to my case manager, but she doesn't know what's happening. I might try Corporal Maher, but experience says she doesn't give away much information...

Dilmah G
1st Feb 2012, 00:10
Hey fellas,

Not to detract from the current discussion RE:FSP/Distributions, but has anyone else here done time in the Reserves prior to becoming pilots?

I had my YOU session yesterday, did (and dressed :ok:) reasonably well and put down for Army Reserve GSO. Logic being that 3/4 years part time during uni would be a good way to go about things as opposed to not doing anything + the stuff they get up to down here seems fairly sweet.

I'm just curious as to whether it would make it harder to become a pilot in the long run because of the wishes of the Commanding Officer and the bureaucracy? I assumed by the fact that several of the earlier posters had made the transition that it was possible, however I've heard a few rumours here and there about blokes being forced to leave the Reserves altogether and apply again for a full time role.

1st Feb 2012, 03:39
Well, March it is! Got an offer yesterday for flight screening. Absolutely stoked!

1st Feb 2012, 05:47
Great news mate!
You will love Tamworth, hot in the day and freezing at night ;)

Best of luck!

1st Feb 2012, 11:44
well done "oneflewnorth". Can I ask did you receive the letter first saying they received your file or did you get the phone call first?


1st Feb 2012, 23:44
I never got a letter saying my file was received. I called my co-ordinator and asked if it was sent/received because I hadn't heard anything after a month or more. The offer was a call though. So if you're unsure, just call.

3rd Feb 2012, 01:31
Hi Guys,
Anyone else here on the Mid Feb OTS intake? If so, drop me a PM or e-mail as I am too.


7th Feb 2012, 10:36
Hi all. First post in the forum for me. Thanks to everyone for their contributions because it has been of great help to me.

I have completed the YOU session and have my pick of the litter, however I'm stuck with a past issue on my medical history.
I'm told I'll get a letter from an ADF/recruitment doc asking for more details or saying that I'm not eligible to join. I'm hoping it's the former and that things go relatively smoothly, because if they dont then I'll most definitely be appealing the decision.
Anyone know how long the appeals process takes?

8th Feb 2012, 03:03
Hi Crazy Dingo,

You will find heaps of posts in here about appealing. I suppose it depends what they pick up in the medical. For example my husband was on Lipitor for high cholesterol so in order for him to be deemed fit he had to be without medication for 3 months and then get his blood tests done again. He also had to see a knee surgeon and nose surgeon as his nose has been broken.

Also because he was over 35? he had to have routine blood tests.

I thought the appeal process was actually quite fast once they received all the information - from memory it was a few weeks. His file is now at Tamworth and we are just waiting for a call..............

In the end I suppose it's about how bad you want it - there are many times when you question the process, time etc but it's all part of the journey.

I wish you the best of luck


8th Feb 2012, 11:01
I broke my elbow a few years back, so they aren't too happy about that. I saw that someone else here wrote that their friend didn't get in because of the same issue.
I'll see what the letter says and work it out from there I guess.

13th Feb 2012, 02:51
Hi all,

Well husband got his call this morning to attend Flight Screening in March - so excited!!!! and I'm not going anywhere!


Arm out the window
13th Feb 2012, 03:05
Good on you, Liz, and congratulations to your husband.

I'm sure you already know it's a big committment, and a supportive spouse as it seems you are will be a massive help to him throughout the course.

I wasn't married when I went through (a long time ago) but I remember how all-consuming it gets, so hang in there both of you and good luck.

There are numerous things in military life that can stuff you round and get you down, but for someone who's intent on pursuing the job, it can also be very rewarding.

13th Feb 2012, 05:58
Hi Arm out the window,

Thanks - we are all really excited. The kids and I are fully aware of the commitment that is required and are more than happy to support him in this.

Getting to flight screening has had it's challenges but so worth now he is on his way!


15th Feb 2012, 07:17
Army SSO and Navy offers went out today. Congrats to those who got the call

15th Feb 2012, 22:55
Got a call for RAAF distribution today! Anyone else get one???

20th Feb 2012, 08:48
Anyone here a current serving pilot in either the Army or RAAF and based in Sydney?

If so, could you PM me if you would be willing to meet up some time so I could have a chat with you and ask you some questions about your experiences and views to do with your career?

I tried to call the defence forces switchboard, but they said I had to do it through my careers counsellor. The only problem being that my careers counsellor says he has no contacts and doesn't seem to be able to get any for me (which I find odd and exceedingly disappointing).

20th Feb 2012, 09:10
G'day everyone,

I have finally been granted an opportunity to sit for the additional testing for ADF pilot, and I am looking forward it. I have read this thread from top to toe and have discovered a wealth of quality information that has helped to keep me on the right track over the years.

If there is anyone out there who would like to share their recent experience of the additional testing day in public or by a private Message, I would very much like to hear from you.

My testing date is the 1st March in Parramatta. If anyone has the same testing day and would like to meet up beforehand for a chat, PM me, im buying the coffee.


21st Feb 2012, 00:41
I have applied for an ACO position and have my specialist testing this week. I am trying to get prepared for it and have been reading over the threads but the information seems to contradict each other a lot. Some posts have stated that the testing involves writing an essay on why you want to join the ADF and tests on general ADF knowledge, but I was under the impression this was done on the Assessment Day and the specialist testing was just going to be a harder version of aptitude testing. Am I wrong on this? If anyone who has done their specialist testing recently could let me know, it would be greatly appreciated.

21st Feb 2012, 08:35
anyone know program after pilot aptitude test day? waiting a call from DFR. how long to wait for 2-week flying program and how long after that for initial training? What is the flight test profiles during the 2 weeks? Cheers, TS

21st Feb 2012, 21:30

From memory the pilot specialist testing takes a bit over half the day and consists of some general math, flying specific math and hand eye coordination tests. It took me about 4 months between my initial application and getting a call for PSA which I did last March and I only just got a call for distribution last week to probably start in May. On the other hand I have friends who only waited about 2 months, it all depends what service you prefer and when they're hiring.

22nd Feb 2012, 09:35
Well, got the invitation to flight screening in March, however I cannot attend due to a wedding overseas. As such it looks as though the next opportunity will be in May. Good luck to all attending.

Liz, if possible, I would be interested in getting your partner's feedback and advice upon his return? Best of luck.


23rd Feb 2012, 09:13
Hi Dan,

No problem at all - what a bummer - do they give you another date to attend? - I'll post when he returns.


23rd Feb 2012, 10:39
Liz, all I know is that I will be placed back in the selection process for the May courses. Hopefully it all works out. With this application going on 2 years, this was bound to happen :ugh:

Talk soon


24th Feb 2012, 09:30
Anyone recommend a good aviation degree/course either online or in the Brisbane area?


25th Feb 2012, 21:04
Hi, could anyone please confirm if there is an in-depth psych interview on the pilot specific testing day.

Cheers, Russ.

25th Feb 2012, 21:54
Testing only on that day. Psych on Assessment day.

25th Feb 2012, 23:56
Thanks CJ


26th Feb 2012, 09:23
And what is assessment profile (flight test activities) from PSA during two weeks??

28th Feb 2012, 06:57
First of all- a big congratulations to caity for making a dream come true!
All the hard work has paid off and I wish you all the best!

Secondly, can anyone suggest further study material. I have the ARCO military aptitude booklet and used that last time I sat my Pilot Spec. testing however I was looking at more material to better prepare me. I've glanced over some ASVAB booklets(American- I know). Anyone have links or further reading material that might better prepare me?

Cheers, and if anyone has any questions on the application process I've been through it all so don't hesitate to ask.

28th Feb 2012, 21:40
Thanks heaps afraid_of_heights!

The only book I used is Get Your Wings. It has info about all the courses and tests to get your ADF wings and some practice questions.

Get Your Wings (http://www.getyourwings.com.au/)

Hope this helps!

29th Feb 2012, 01:00
Hey everyone. First time poster to this forum. Just thought i would let you know that i got the call to attend flight screening in March. :)

29th Feb 2012, 10:12
Hi again,
Just had a quick question....at the YOU session I understand that there is a general aptitude test, but is there also further mathematical testing as well or any other testing in general?

EDIT: would it be anything along these lines? At any stage of the recruitment process that is. I understand that this specific testing is for NAVY. Defence International Training Centre (http://www.defence.gov.au/ditc/courses/maths/default.htm)


btw, congratulations harry :D

Dilmah G
29th Feb 2012, 11:34
Hey mate, I'm not exactly sure if you encounter any additional maths testing on YOU day specifically if you identify yourself as a Pilot candidate but from my experience of YOU sesh there is a maths test of about 15-25 questions at most that you do right after your GAT.

It's not very hard at all (as repeated many times throughout this thread). If you use maths and any kind of algebra in your everyday life as well as recall the foundations of Year 10 mathematics such as 3/4/5 triangles and which side of the triangle is the hypotenuse (which was a serious question that people at my YOU sesh couldn't answer during the testing) you should ace it. It is much easier than the maths in the link you've posted if that gives you an idea.

29th Feb 2012, 19:21
Thanks Pacificjet,

As i am already a serving member in the RAAF I believe my testing may be slightly different to someone from outside. Basically on the day of your apptitude test you will be required to complete approximately 6 different tests as well as write a 15 minute essay and also complete a Physc interview. The test include a general apptitude test that all personel do regardless of mustering. The other 5 are pilot related tests. including instrument reading, aircraft orientation and maths. I cant recall them all exactly but i hope this helps.

2nd Mar 2012, 07:00
Caity thanks so much!
Had a look at some of the free samples and even they are incredible!
Been looking for something like this for a long time. I appreciate it!

Congrats Harry :ok:

3rd Mar 2012, 01:34
So got back from the YOU session yesterday. Everything went fine. Apparently I'll get a call from the case manager soon to book me into my Spec Testing. On this note, I was wondering if I could grab any advice of anyone on here in terms of things such as; what's involved in the testing, is there any physics involved etc. Basically anything to give me an idea about the Spec Testing.

Thanks guys.

4th Mar 2012, 08:41
G'day all,

I've got an upcoming assesment day, I've been doing a lot of reading in prep for it but there are a few queries I cannot find answers for anywhere. If anyone could prove some insight into these I'd be most grateful!

1. Is there additional maths/aptitude testing on the assessment day? I am NOT going for ADFA entry but have read contradictory info on this... I was hoping that was done and dusted with my Spec testing!

2. Was the essay done at the start of the day, was it on a "topic", or just a series of three questions? Once again I've read both things and was hoping to do a bit of preparation...

Feel free to PM if you would prefer that to replying.

Thanks for any help!

All the best with your recruitment.

Torque Monkey
5th Mar 2012, 08:30
Caketin: PM Sent

5th Mar 2012, 11:24
Appeal now submitted due to being categorised as Class 4. Just a minor hurdle to overcome!

I have had no details from my careers counsellor (CC) regarding contacts for currently serving pilots in the ADF. He says he has no contacts to get in touch with.
I was told that I can only get these meetings arranged through my careers counsellor, so should I attempt to get a different one? Has anyone else come across this problem? I don't want to be disrespectful to my CC, but I feel that having a discussion with current serving pilots in the RAAF and Army (applied for both) is more important.

6th Mar 2012, 07:59

From what I've been told (and it seems to change on a case by case basis-that's just DFR) you must first pass your assessment day and be recommended to be able to visit a base and speak to a pilot.

My case manager told me that if every YOU session applicant for a pilot role was given an opportunity to speak to a pilot they'd never get a chance to fly. That being said I have had an opportunity to speak with an army helicopter pilot. I might be able to find his number if you send me a PM. Otherwise, just keep pushing through and hopefully you'll get the opportunity after you pass your assessment day.

24th Mar 2012, 10:07

i just contacted my local raaf base (east sale) saying that i was interested in becoming a pilot and would like to come down and talk to some of the pilots and have a look around, got a email back, talked to someone down there who helped me arrange it. (and CFS is extreamly busy)

so i would just contact the base directly, call 1800 033 200 and ask to speak to the base of your choosing.

hope this helps

24th Mar 2012, 22:04
I'll definitely give that a try, thanks

25th Mar 2012, 23:57
Back from Tamworth and got recommended which I'm pumped about. Offers are out soon apparently so hopefully something comes. Thanks for all the help everyone's given, really appreciate it.

26th Mar 2012, 11:43
hey everyone, first post :)

So i have my additional pilot testing coming up soon, just wanted to ask a few questions. it would be greatly appreciated.

Basically, what kind of mathematics is involved, any essay writing or the like, is there a memory test, or any instrument reading? Basically absolutely ANYTHING ANYONE can tell me, would be of the utmost help.

thank you very much. :D

26th Mar 2012, 23:38
That's the next thing on my list, so I'd like to know too!

27th Mar 2012, 05:01
Read the thread

27th Mar 2012, 11:52
To be fair, it's a very long thread. I was being lazy because it took me so long to read through it all the first time.

However, I went back a bit and I found this:

"Phase two: specialised aptitude
Instrument test
spatial skills tests
maths tests
hand-eye co-ord"

Anyone that has done it recently? Is it up to date? Did you find any particular part more difficult than the rest? What exactly is the instrument test?

27th Mar 2012, 22:53
To be fair, it's a very long thread. I was being lazy because it took me so long to read through it all the first time.

To be fair, pilots course is much longer.

28th Mar 2012, 08:51
Thanks to everyone for their help on this forum over the past 3 years. Today I got the distribution call for Army SSO. Best news I've ever had in my whole life. It has been a rocky ride and I nearly gave up but now the real hard yards begin and I can't wait :ok:

29th Mar 2012, 06:47
hey guys, had my additional testing today and passed, so all's good for the assessment day :D

Just wanted to let people know that is they want to ask any questions (even if they've read the thread, searched online etc, I know i did, that they can PM me any time, and ill try my best to answer them.)

Good luck everyone else!

29th Mar 2012, 11:08
Hi dudes and dudettes,

Just a big thank you to you all for providing all this information. It is hard to read through the whole thread but it's worth it. Two years ago near the end of uni I "was thinking about it", and over time the desire to become a RAAF pilot just really took hold.

How much I've learnt in the past 2 years about the job, it's unbelievable the misconceptions that I had and that most people who will never apply will always have.

Anyway, I'm posting for a reason and that's to ask a question (like everyone else here!). I've done my YOU day, done my Assessment day. I had an issue with childhood asthma but after a specialist test it was all cleared after a week or so and about 2 months ago after repeated calls to my case manager I finally found out that my file had been sent to the PSA.

My question is this: it's been 2 months, and could be another 10. Is there any way at all of finding out how competitive one is compared to the rest of the cohort? I know I'm not top top because I've seen others bragging (just being happy) about their FSP dates in here which means I've been passed over at least twice. Any ideas? Or do I just sit and wait and get on with things for a year hoping for a call? To be honest I don't get why they don't tell you how you score, at least then you can have some kind of closure or hope either way!

Thanks guys.

30th Mar 2012, 04:09
@ yossarian88

If I recall correctly you should have been given a contact number for PSA in the letter stating that your file has been received. My suggestion would be to give them a call and ask how you're sitting. I did the same and they were quite helpful.


31st Mar 2012, 05:07

its a floating pool, changes weekly.

31st Mar 2012, 08:49
Hi all,

Latest update is that hubby finished flight screening last week and was recommended, which was great news.

Now just waiting for the call/letter - lets hope there is one!


1st Apr 2012, 05:08
That's awesome, congrats!
I can't wait for the inevitable day when I'll be doing the same.

Just a general question to anyone who wishes to contribute; how did you deal with the two weeks off from work? I imagine I will just tell the boss straight-up.

1st Apr 2012, 22:25
Dingo, this is my predicament at the moment. Basically I couldn't imagine any full time employer would appreciate an employee taking 2 weeks leave for FSP. I have asked for annual leave for travel reasons only (the less they know the better). It really depends on your situation.

If you do tell them, make sure your job will not be compromised. Best of luck.


4th Apr 2012, 02:57
So guys I'm finally among the people that have got the call for the FSP ;)

Anybody going to the 29th April one? PM me if you are.

FYI to others, I never received a letter saying they had my file with a number to call or anything. Just got a call two months after my assessment day saying come on down.

Thanks to you all!

Genisis Dreaming
5th Apr 2012, 07:36
Having recently being lucky enough to attend FSP, can I just say what an amazing two weeks it is.

The flying you will do you will never forget (unless you get in :}), but to anyone that makes it to Tamworth for FSP, well done. The ADF are spending a lot of money to get you there, so sit back, keep your eyes and ears open, be a sponge, work hard and most importantly, enjoy yourself!

Know when to talk, and when to shut up.

Good luck everyone.

8th Apr 2012, 11:56

Sorry, couldn't resist it!

8th Apr 2012, 12:58
grusome in some cases people post and their spelling is so bad that it's awkward and you can tell they have no chance with interviews etc based on their knowledge of the English language.

This however is not such a case and your post is both snobbish and unwelcome.

Captain Sand Dune
9th Apr 2012, 00:04
Well then, I guess he has just recieved his first helpful hint!:}

9th Apr 2012, 08:21
Sorry mate for that, I thought we were all friends here!

In regards to your original questions, I can't help much because I'm a DEO entrant and as such haven't been in the ADF before. But I can tell you about the standard tests for outside applicants, although it has been covered in a fair bit of detail in the thread already. I haven't spotted an in-service applicant yet on this thread, but maybe some of the experienced people who are actually in/have been in as pilots or have been involved in the process can comment?

Where are you up to in your process? As far as the normal applications go it's YOU -> Specific pilot testing -> Assessment day -> Any additional medical stuff -> FSP -> Service if all goes well. I don't know how it differs for you.

9th Apr 2012, 09:09
1Live2Fly PM sent

10th Apr 2012, 00:48
Hi guys,

Has anyone recently had any interaction with Aviation Medicine in regards to Army pilot sitting height?
I completed my Assessment Day for this role on Thursday and was recommended, unfortunately my sitting height is 96.5cm and the max on Defence Jobs is 92cm but I know this has been jumping all over the place.
The doc is sending my profile to Av Med for the final word, my dimensions for everything else are fine.
The thing that surprised me was I recently visited Oakey and pretty much all the guys going through the courses were taller than me, I am around 182cm.
I know in previous posts this has been the nail in the coffin for applicants, I hope this is not the case.


10th Apr 2012, 07:37

sitting height for ARA is in the process of being ratified. It will only be a show stopper if you are above the new limit and only want ARA.

10th Apr 2012, 08:16

I enlist tomorrow and I'm 95cm. I met a girl today who is also enlisting tomorrow but has sitting height of 97.5cm. She is going out to Oakey for a cockpit assessment in the Kiowa to see if she 'fits'

12th Apr 2012, 04:35
Thanks for your replies guys, this gives me hope.

cj0203, does that mean you're in the July RMC intake?

Is the only reason the sitting height is so low due to the Kiowa?
If so, why would they deny someone this role for something they will only beflying for 6 months in their career?

It’s interesting that they are going to see if she fits after she enlists, you’d think it’d be the other way around.

12th Apr 2012, 04:37
It's always important to remember that from their point of view, there is no shortage of applicants. Even if they said you had to get a huge facial tattoo and a couple of fingers amputated they'd probably still get too many applicants :P

12th Apr 2012, 05:12
Damn it, I thought the doctor was joking when he gave me a referal to the tattoo parlour to get med class 1...

12th Apr 2012, 09:03
During both my YOU Session and Assessment Day (29-Mar-12), there was a point where someone said, "Hmm... your sitting height is probably too tall for Army. We better check...". After finding I was 94.5cm, they went off and checked the details of the limit. Both times they came back and said I was okay, as the 92-95cm range is acceptable, though a waiver would need to be issued. I presume that waiver didn't have to come from AVMED, because the issue didn't come up again and I've already been told my file is ready to be sent to the PSA.

Given cj0203 has met an Amazonian (potential) Army Pilot, and that being 94.5cm didn't cause too much fuss, suggests all is not lost for you, Mooch. You have my sympathy, though. I know what it's like to have your case awaiting judgement at AVMED. :uhoh:

It's worth noting the waiver system is not simple... well, not from my perspective, anyway :). For example, I don't know if I've been issued a waiver, or just recommended for a waiver at some future point in the process.

13th Apr 2012, 09:05

I'm SSO and heading to RMC on the 21st of this month. BFTS course starts in August. As for the sitting height, yes it's due to Kiowa and the limit is in the process of being reviewed again.

13th Apr 2012, 14:45
Mooch, hilarious. You should get in on your sense of humour as a morale booster alone. I wish you luck with the sitting height. I'm a RAAF applicant so I think I'm OK with that height, didn't really pay attention because I'm not very tall to begin with. But best of wishes. Can you appeal to get measured again? If it's really that close it's the kind of thing you might be able to qualify for by taking the test at the end of the day having stood a lot and after having had your mate squash your spine for a bit!!!

14th Apr 2012, 12:07
...and after having had your mate squash your spine for a bit!!!
Now the RAAF is an equal opportunity, non-discriminatory employer, AND we don't have the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, but do you have to rub it in everyone's face? (So to speak...) :yuk:

16th Apr 2012, 22:38
My appeal against my Class 4 has now been in the system for six weeks and I still have no response. After contacting the medical section in my DFRC, I was told that there is nothing I can do to speed things up and that sometimes it takes longer than the time limit they originally gave me (two to six weeks).
I am not pleased because my life is on hold until I know what is happening. All they have is a letter from me, an orthopaedic assessment and notes from a radiologist and everything says my elbow is perfect.

Regardless of what I have been told by the medical section, does anyone here know of anything I can do to speed up the process?

17th Apr 2012, 03:35
Unfortunately you're stuck in the DFR time vacuum now.

17th Apr 2012, 07:22
Unfortunately you're stuck in the DFR time vacuum now.

Bummer. How frustrating. :ugh:

19th Apr 2012, 07:16
Having watched this thread for quite a few years, I'm still blown away by the number of people that are too slack to sift through this thread for the gouge, yet claim that they'd do anything to realise their lifelong dream of becoming an ADF pilot... Its a fraction of the effort you'll need to put in before lunch during flight training, let alone the following decade of your career!

This thread is a goldmine of information, if you take the time then you'll know more than enough to tackle the selection process.

19th Apr 2012, 10:57
It is indeed a gold mine and definitely worth a read through.

But let's think of this thread like a crowded building and each page is a floor (that's a minimum of 108 floors to date). These floors aren't categorised or uniform in their distribution of information.
Now let's say, you are tasked with finding a specific piece of information on one of those floors, but you don't know which floor it is on. You're told there's a directory on the 108th floor (this 'directory' being the collective knowledge of the people contributing to this thread and an individual's ability to ask questions - just so there is no ambiguity).
Are you going to take the stairs and search each floor, or are you going to take the elevator first and ask at the directory?

Just to make things more complicated, there's always the potential to find outdated information. Asking could resolve such issues.

I have read this thread through from first to last page and I most certainly cannot remember everything, I also see the benefit in making sure that details are up to date. If people don't want to contribute then that is their prerogative, but there has recently been a negative undercurrent from a minority that has the potential to scare off newcomers who may wish to ask questions but feel discouraged by such negative comments. You may not have meant to discourage questions and I may have misinterpreted it, but this is the impression I got.

While I'm on this subject, thanks to everyone that has taken the time to share their knowledge with me (via the thread and PM) and answer my questions. I greatly appreciate it. If and when I am a pilot in the ADF, I will pass the buck down in kind :ok:

19th Apr 2012, 22:27
The tests and selection process haven't changed and won't be changing any time soon, which is what most are asking about. The first half (if that) of this thread will clear up those questions. The medical (ie. Army height restrictions) questions are different.

I enjoyed your amusing building analogy, even if condescending. Now what if I told you that building had a search function that could find anyone in the building, and that someone who is a current RAAF pilot is standing there at the bottom floor telling you that in order to give yourself the best shot you ought to check out each floor. I posted that advice because being one of the few that has been involved in this thread since the beginning and has used/contributed to the information it contains, I know that it has very specific details on all of the selection process. But hey it got me through a few years back and I have since helped a number of candidates that ended up getting selected, so what would I know.

If it was too direct for you, then you're going to struggle with debriefs. Get out a pen, go through the thread and write down all the things you think are important. Yes, the job is good enough to read 100 pages for, trust me.

20th Apr 2012, 02:42
I completely agree that it is worth a read through and I don't question your positive contributions. I merely think questions are good and productive.

Torque Monkey
20th Apr 2012, 10:24
They are.

If someone is outside of the system, they have no idea if the system has changed. They most certainly have and will continue to do so as capability, funding and manning change. Asking questions can help identify these changes.

20th Apr 2012, 11:34
You've missed the point. "Hey guys I just started the process, what sort of tests are at YOU session and specialist testing?" isn't an attempt to ascertain whether the system has changed.

On a lighter note, congrats oneflewnorth. Waiting in the pool is pretty excruciating, but no doubt you'll get the spot you worked for.

22nd Apr 2012, 01:24
Agreed, Mudrat.

1103 days after initially applying I have finally been offered a flight screening spot! Anyone else on the 5th of May course? PM if you are. To everyone else, best of luck! Patience really is a virtue you know.

28th Apr 2012, 07:48
Hi all,

First post. In the process of being processed.

I have heard that the FSP course has been changes. Does anyone have any idea on if this is true.

3rd May 2012, 09:56
1103 days after initially applying I have finally been offered a flight screening spot! Anyone else on the 5th of May course? PM if you are. To everyone else, best of luck! Patience really is a virtue you know

Out of curiosity, is it common to take this long to get to Flight screening?

Im in year 12 currently and just wondering what subjects and extra curricular activities the average RAAF pilot would of done when they were at high school? (i know the minimum requirements and i do meet them, just interested to see what could help me be more competitive).

I also would prefer to go through direct officer entry but i do realize that they usually dont accept the younger ones in because of "lack of life experience" but have they accepted anyone in who is 18, 19, 20 year's old recently?

3rd May 2012, 10:25
Hi pull-up

1103 days is definitely not the norm, while I am not aware of Zeddy's specific situation, he may have had medical or educational problems to overcome before being put into the flight screening pool. Generally those who have good grades, perform well at the YOU session and assessment day and are deemed a competitive candidate will be given priority for a slot at flight screening.

As for extra curricular activities, my suggestion is to take on as much as you can without sacrificing your grades. Having a busy schedule is a good look as life in the military can be quite hectic. I would suggest air cadets, a team sport and a community service of some description. Hobbies are a good way to show your enthusiasm, for instance, remote control models, plastic modelling (VERY handy for the selection process ;)) or even reading magazines.

And don't worry about your age, I personally know a couple of blokes who have been selected recently for DEO who are 17 years of age.

Hope this helps and good luck...

3rd May 2012, 22:08
Hi pull-up

1103 days is definitely not the norm, while I am not aware of Zeddy's specific situation, he may have had medical or educational problems to overcome before being put into the flight screening pool. Generally those who have good grades, perform well at the YOU session and assessment day and are deemed a competitive candidate will be given priority for a slot at flight screening.

As for extra curricular activities, my suggestion is to take on as much as you can without sacrificing your grades. Having a busy schedule is a good look as life in the military can be quite hectic. I would suggest air cadets, a team sport and a community service of some description. Hobbies are a good way to show your enthusiasm, for instance, remote control models, plastic modelling (VERY handy for the selection process http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif) or even reading magazines.

And don't worry about your age, I personally know a couple of blokes who have been selected recently for DEO who are 17 years of age.

Hope this helps and good luck...

Cheers, thank for that. I have that covered.

Just wondering, after completing your training in the RAAF what is the chances of ending up on the 737 BBJ or the new A330 as a pilot (as in are those planes least popular because everyone probably wants to fly the FA-18's)?

4th May 2012, 00:50
Well it took 8 weeks, but I finally got a response from DFR Medical Section/Chief Medical Officer/Aviation Medical that my appeal was successful!

So for those that may be concerned in the future, it is possible to be a pilot if you have broken your elbow in the past! I know someone far back in this thread mentioned that their friend didn't get in because of the same thing.

Now I'm off to have a great weekend after a very stressful two months :}

5th May 2012, 11:29
Hey all!

Firstly, thanks to everyone who has made posts in here! As everyone has stated, its a great place to pick up information!

I have one question in particular that i am curious about... I am just beginning my application for DEO, and i am worried about a medical issue.. migraines.. now i realise this could potentially take me out of the hunt.. however i suffered from them primarily when i was 14/15 going through puberty etc.. I am now 24 and over the past 8/9 years have had less than 3.. I do however no what causes them to be brought on..

Any information/advice?? :ugh:??


Dilmah G
5th May 2012, 11:37
Mate, two things:

1. Mate of mine was classed 3R over migraines (temporarily unfit for mil service, pending specialist medical reports) and after a spec medical report was reclassified to 1 (fit to serve), so I think you should be fine. He had about the same amount of migraines as you've had in your life and was about 7 years younger. He's currently a Reserve Rifleman so I think if he was alright with that, you should be alright with yours.

2. Be careful about what else you put down on your questionnaire. I was offered a position as a part-time GSO by my selection board but a week before my appointment date was Class 4'd because I have an allergy to peanuts. It was erroneously classified as severe when in actual fact it's mild, but as some very recent posts have alluded to, the medical appeal process is long, stressful, and expensive and I would avoid going down that route at all costs.

5th May 2012, 11:50
Cheers for that mate!

Yeah that was the main thing that i was concerned with.. so i think i will just get ahead of the game and book in with a neurologist so i have the report good to go and hopefully save myself a bunch of time!

Dilmah G
5th May 2012, 12:05
That's a VERY good idea!

I don't have the form with me anymore but I found basically an ad verbatim copy of what the ADF like addressed by specialist medical reports, so hopefully this'll help when you rock up:

1. Confirm the nature of the problem/diagnosis.

2. Describe the limitations it places upon the applicants functional capacity.

3. Describe any limitations upon duties because of safely considerations (eg. inability to work alone or at heights, necessity to practice 'universal precautions').

4.What is the medium and long term prognosis for the condition?

5.Does the condition require any ongoing medication, specialist review or potential demands on the ADF as a health care provider?

Of course a simple letter that doesn't say too much other than 'this man is basically fine' that you hand to your doctor at the medical may do the trick. Either way, I hope it goes well for you mate.

5th May 2012, 22:07
I don't have the form with me anymore but I found basically an ad verbatim copy of what the ADF like addressed by specialist medical reports, so hopefully this'll help when you rock up
That's interesting because when I went to an orthopaedic surgeon for an assessment, he expected a letter with details of what they wanted to hear but DFR never sent me anything to that effect.

6th May 2012, 01:12
I'm at FSP at the moment and I'll just let everyone know that the course has changed. It is similar but different in some respects to the past. There are now 3 streams: Basic, Intermediate and Advanced. Basic gets 8 flights, intermediate 7 and advanced 6. Not only does advanced have to do more stuff they have to do it in less flights. It has been changed to respond to the fact that too many low hour applicants were failing and too many 50+ hour guys were getting through.

I'll put more details up when I've finished. Let me tell you all though that the course is bloody awesome and great fun with a good group of people.

6th May 2012, 06:35
Hi yossarian88,

Any news when offers are coming out? I believe RAAF offers went out recently however am wondering about Army and Navy?


6th May 2012, 08:23
Thanks for that y88

How does that work? Didny you get 10 flights as a basic and an advance before????

6th May 2012, 10:44
Yeah not sure how it used to be but I think it was 10 and 8 for normal and advanced.

As far as they've told us, RAAF distribution is not for a looong time but army and navy are coming up in the next couple of weeks.

Essentially RAAFies can expect to be starting next year if they are good enough for an offer now. Army/Navy could be starting much earlier.

6th May 2012, 12:24

I was on the same FSP course as your husband Dave (I'm Cam). I called PSA the other week and was told that the Navy distribution is being decided in the last week of May.

6th May 2012, 19:59
Thanks guys. Fingers crossed!

7th May 2012, 12:26
Well, thought it was time I gave an update.
I got made an offer back in early April for the end of May RAAF intake! So pending my final medicals and so on it should all be happening. Thanks to everyone on here for their help. It's been a long process, all up taking 2.5 years, and now it all seems to be happening so quickly.

7th May 2012, 21:54
Hi Oneflewnorth,

Congratulations - well done. It's definitely a long process but well worth it when you get "that" call - something we are hoping will come along soon.

I think you may have been on Flight Screening with my husband? He has had his medicals and we believe they are all ok.

Would be a dream come true if he actually receives a call for Army or Navy.

Heres hoping :)

Hope you have a blast and it's everything you expected it to be!

8th May 2012, 00:35
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and have just passed through my assessment session around a week ago. I was notified by my case manager that I received a high recommendation (although I believe they say that to keep you motivated) and my file has been sent out to PSA.

My case manager has put me through to a pilot officer and she has explained as much as she could about FSP. I'm assuming you have heard it over a hundred times but if I could get some information from anyone who is experienced or undertaken the program, I'd be very thankful.

I have also heard that just because you have passed your assessment session, it does not mean you are going to be given a spot on the FSP. Are there any specific characteristics they look for in an application that would give you a better chance of receiving an offer?


8th May 2012, 08:36
Just wondering, after completing your training in the RAAF what is the chances of ending up on the 737 BBJ or the new A330 as a pilot (as in are those planes least popular because everyone probably wants to fly the FA-18's)?

It's up to how well you do on pilots course and what's available. There are prob more people after a kc30 spot than jets much to the frustration ofACG

12th May 2012, 11:27
Alright, well my application has hit a couple of roadblocks... I'm passed my assessment day, but am awaiting medical clearance for flight screening. Fingers crossed everything will work out okay; I just have a metal plate fixed to one of my bones is all :ouch:

Anyway, I've obtained the required specialist reports and have confirmation that they have been received by DFR, now I am waiting as I have been told my file has been sent to RAAF AVMED pending a final decision as to my being given medical approval. I remember reading somewhere that others who had been in a similar situation had contacted AVMED to confirm that their file had been received and was being processed. I was hoping to do the same as I know things can go missing between destination with DFR... I have the number for RAAF Edinburgh and figured perhaps I could just ring that and ask for the medical section, alternatively I was going to contact DFR and see if they have the number and would pass it on. I thought that before I did that I'd post here to see if anyone had done what I am hoping to and knew of the best way to contact someone who might actually handle my file? Please reply, or PM if anyone does happen to have any info!

Thanks again to all the contributors of this thread, it's a brilliant resource!

Best of luck in all your applications.

Captain Sand Dune
12th May 2012, 21:57
There are prob more people after a kc30 spot than jets much to the frustration ofACGWell they've only got themselves to blame!

13th May 2012, 15:01
There are prob more people after a kc30 spot than jets much to the frustration ofACG
I'm genuinely surprised!

Well they've only got themselves to blame!
Why is that?

13th May 2012, 22:35

There are prob more people after a kc30 spot than jets much to the frustration ofACG

I'm genuinely surprised!


Well they've only got themselves to blame!

Why is that?

The average student today does not look at the hornet and think about how cool it would be to fly. They look at all the work that is required to fly it. Not just conversion but then to continue to work 10 hour days 5 days a week forever, even when at the SQN.

ACG need to change the way they do things, the vast majority of fast jet QFIs at 2FTS do not want to go back as they are sick of the workload. This attitude is passed on to the students.

I have sat in on a few posting meetings over the last few years and the most popular A/C is the C-17 followed by the C-130J. Fast jets are still high on the list but most know they will not be going......

P3s are generally last on the list. Not sure why a Whomping Stomping ASW killing machine sits so low but it's probably something to do with being based in Adelaide and it's old as the kids all want shiny new toys.

32 is fairly obvious, not only are you flying a civi light twin turbine but you are based in Sale, nothing worse for a 22 year old single guy!

38 - it's a king air, nuff said.

14th May 2012, 01:41
I can remember having a FJ instructor at 2FTS and that turned me off FJ for life. I remember asking him questions in debriefs and I all I got back was icy contempt. Oh, and he gave out scores that were always 2 lower than anyone else. I gave up asking him anything.
Basically, this guy thought that instructing and the PC9 were beneath him and he went out of his way to upset everyone around him. His attitude was appalling.
It seems to be that most of the instructors at BFTS and 2FTS come from a multi-engine background and until there are more FJ role models in the training system, who properly mentor and encourage their students you will find that the graduates will still prefer the big heavy jets.
By the way, I am a realist and I know this will never change (for a whole number of reasons) and we will never see lots of happy Hornet pilots spreading the good word at 2FTS and BFTS.

14th May 2012, 03:58
Thanks for that Slezy9 and dostum :ok:

What is the workload for other pilots when compared to that of FJ pilots? What sort of things would a FJ pilot be doing in those 10 hours each day?

14th May 2012, 04:43
All good chatty stuff guys...

As a former military fast jet pilot, Fighter squadron CO and mentor/role model for a few folk over the decades (in a variety of countries), may I advise any of you who think being a military pilot in any aeroplane type is going to be easy, look elsewhere because the military will screen you out. None of it is easy. All of it takes huge amounts of time, energy and commitment. You don't get your hands on multi-million dollar equipment without being thoroughly prepared, and that actually applies to any job you choose to contemplate. Not just the military.

For those who think it is good to wish for any form of military transport or support job over a fast jet post, let me just say that if you manage to slip through the selection process don't try to talk up the fact that you are aiming low. The only reason for aiming low is to avoid disappointment, and if that is how you think I hope the military doesn't want you. To my mind, the military needs go getters, not settlers.

You will find there is inter-type rivalry, inter-service rivalry, inter-personal rivalry. All of it is a part of the competition and camaraderie of service life. Everything about screening is about you presenting yourself in the best possible way to get selected for what you really want. Argue all you like about who goes where, who does what and who gets the gongs...the fact is that most people aspire to be fighter pilots, and they are the kind of people the military want. From those selected, pilots for all types will be trained/picked. Nobody joins to fly BBJs, Challengers, B350s...or for that matter CT4s and PC9s. Don't even think about them! These are all just aeroplanes around for you to fly when you are on your way to a warplane, or on a break from a warplane. They do have a mission, but you must aspire to something higher!

Think about the air force motto and what it means. Can you really do that if you peak on a PC9?

14th May 2012, 05:16
Nobody joins to fly BBJs, Challengers

Spoken like a true fighter pilot. You guys are all the same, you just never understand that there is more to life. But what would I know, as I was described the other day by a fast jet dude, I am only a sub-sonic mother f#&ker.

Maybe nobody joins to fly these but by the time it comes to posting these are two of the most popular types.

You have obviously been out of the game for a while, we are dealing with a new breed of pilot.

14th May 2012, 06:04
Hey Slezy
You have obviously been out of the game for a while, we are dealing with a new breed of pilot.
You might think that, but no. Close enough to the game to know with absolute certainty that we still need the same breed of military pilot we have always needed. If you think differently then it is more likely you have slipped through and are in the wrong game. Good luck!:)

14th May 2012, 06:50
I prefer to brief for 1 hr then fly for 6 instead of the other way around.

14th May 2012, 07:28

You really do need to have a quick re-assessment of the playing field today. No doubt those qualities you mentioned are what the Air Force needs but todays Generation Y 2FTS student is a little bit smarter than you give him credit for. ACG have developed a generation of jaded and overworked individuals who have permeated the training system and rubbed the sheen off the post Top-Gun era - fast jet marketing boom of the 80's and 90's. Todays high performing 2FTS student only needs to ring his mates at 3 or 77 to discover the workload on offer in that arena. He would much prefer to follow in the footsteps of his C-130J and C-17 mates and enjoy that easy lifestyle and extra $$$ and gongs to boot. With the global travel and first-class rationing coupled with an easy workload the studs are jumping over each other to get to 34SQN too. They probably joined to fly fast movers but after hearing what the lifestyle entails quickly changed their mind. Todays jet driver works twice as hard for effectively half the pay (due to no deployments) and as such a savvy Gen Y kid can't make it stack up. I have seen numerous high-flying 2FTS grads (i.e. Dux's and top 2/top 3 finishers) thumb their noses at fast jets and opt for a window seat in those other types you mentioned much to the despair of the 2FTS hierarchy. Meanwhile ACG has scrubbed all the guys that could have passed and are now scraping the bottom of the barrel and offering FJ's to almost anyone who wants it.

Airshows aside, Fast movers have lost their appeal to a generation that's all about getting stuff yesterday. Gen Y have realised that all that work wont get you additional dollars, female attention or kudos at the bar and as such FJ's have become undesirable. Stayed tuned for the expen$ive TV campaign about to start soon as a direct result of this crisis.

14th May 2012, 08:00

fraid Upgarded has hit the nail on the head. Gen Z wants it easy and now. I don't know that many knuckleheads that would complain of a 10 hour, five day a week work rate. More like 12 plus, 6 to seven days a week.

A bit like the infantry. Most of their guys are busted by 35 if not 30 due to the physical demands. Most FJ boys are burnt out after a 4 year posting and certainly after two postings. Yeah I know a few old and bold that are still punching around but it aint like the good ol days

14th May 2012, 10:05
Good replies guys. Glad to hear you have no confidence or belief in Gen Y/Gen Z. Personally, if I were one of those I would be mortified that people like you good folk think so little of me.

Not sure what points you are trying to make that conflict with my original foray. There is clearly an element of self justification and inter-type rivalry going on, but what you say doesn't make it right. Indeed, you should all be very worried. Please don't try to stick up for it because it only makes the situation worse. People need to face up to why we have a defence force, and if it's all about hauling trash, easy lifestyle, 5 star food/accom, then we are all in a very dangerous place.

Captain Sand Dune
14th May 2012, 10:09
I agree with what you're saying. However as the last two posters have stated, we now have to pitch to a different market.
Just to assume that every graduated pilot wants to go FJ just isnt the case any more. ACG has to sell itself, and this is where they fall down.
Telling the students at BFTS/2FTS that they can look forward to 12 hour days six days/week, 200 hours/year, be burnt out by the time you reach your mid-30s, and then having to work incredibly hard for the priviledge doesn't cut it with them.
Additionally, Australian governments just don't have the balls to use our FJ units to anywhere near their capacity. This means that the young 'uns look elsewhere for operational experience, hence the increased interest in Hercs, P3s and C17s.
ACG need to bite the bullet and send some family models to Tamworth and Pearce regularly and take some of the kiddies for a ride.

14th May 2012, 10:23
CSD, you know I respect your view and agree with your way forward. ACG may well have a sales pitch to make, but at the flight screening level it doesn't alter the fact that the down pitch being played by Joker89, Upgraded and finestkind is simply wrong. If they really feel the way they advocate then they have no place in any defence force, let alone a modern one faced with all the identified challenges.

A big NB: I am proud of my fighter hours and can honestly say they were quite a variety of experience. If a 6 hour brief to get a few good hours of flight time is what it takes, that will always be better than a logbook full of the same old boring hour watching the auto-pilot take me to another different international airport. If you want that life, join an airline!

14th May 2012, 10:24
DBTW - mate, I have to agree with the other posters - you're out of touch.
ACG need to wake up to themselves - why did NONE of the QFIs at 2FTS take up the offer of a slot at 79SQN for Fast Jet conversion? I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's just the reality of the situation. I strongly believe that the RAAF has the BEST fighter pilots in the world. I REALLY believe that. I have nothing but admiration for their skills and work ethic. But something it wrong. Why do none of THEM want to go back? (From 2FTS, 79/76SQN?) They work too hard - for, arguably, no reason. Not "too hard" in your books - which is again, something I admire from someone like you - but "too hard" for this generation, where often wives and partners have their own careers and ambitions, that take up LOTS of time and effort.
Is this a problem? I don't think so - the time spent on 1v1, 2v1s, is great fun and makes for some cool HUD tapes, but it is a wasted maintenance of proficiency for a skill unlikely to be needed.
I have quite a few mates in ACG who feel the same way - these guys are UTMOST professionals who have an amazing passion for their jobs - but they have other respectable interests too - and we're burning them out.
Unfortunately it only takes the odd knob to ruin the image of what could be a terrific posting opportunity - and unfortunately a number of them have done a lot of damage at the schools (BFTS and 2FTS).
Whilst slightly off the topic (from RAAF Flight Screening) it is relevant...

14th May 2012, 10:34
If ACG want people to want to do it the government should send a sqn to the middle east. We are fighting a war but our jets are deploying to Vegas, Guam and butterworth. If there was any more than a slim chance of defending more than the training area You would get more interest.

14th May 2012, 11:51

Like it or not these generations and their differing values comprise the bulk of the bograt workforce of today and the leadership positions of tomorrow. Consequently these generations need to be understood. The truth of the matter is that the training system is set up to produce fighter pilots. Every trainee pilot that finishes 2FTS at a standard good enough to matriculate to 79sqn (and potentially go on to Hornets) and KNOCKS IT BACK to fly a Herc/P-3/C17 is a massive waste of time and money. This is happening time and time again and the blame for this rests solely with ACG . I know some people that were scrubbed from 76 and when offered a chance to return because they were short on numbers they politely declined - citing the amount of spare time on their hands to surf, drink etc as a contributing factor. They admitted that the 737/C-130 wasn't as much fun but the LIFESTYLE was too good to pass up.

This is all about marketing. ACG need to sell it better to the upcoming generations. And that doesn't mean handing out aviators and bomber jackets at university open days.

Here's a real world example for you to ponder. Aware of the current situation the 2FTS brass decided that the reason Bloggs doesn't want to fly fighters is because his instructor was a Herc/P-3/BBJ guy that told him how good life is flying multi's and if his instructor was a jet guy then all would be good. WRONG. The fact that jets is too hard is all too public. And Bloggs only needs to talk to the junior guys at the jet SQN's to get the low down which he has already done. His mind is already made up. No amount of moto briefs/pax rides/trips to muchea to watch BDU's being dropped will change this.

The solution means modifying the workrate/tempo at the squadrons to facilitate a semi-normal existence where one can manage a career and a family and their own external interests as well as providing the opportunity to utilise these finely tuned skill-sets in an operational environment. If they fail to do this there will be a significant number of JSF's sitting on the flightline as spare frames from 2018. Good if one crumps though.

14th May 2012, 12:51
I started 2FTS wanting to be a knuck, and I can clearly remember belittling a coursemate who wanted hercs at the start. As course went on there was a constant pressure from the QFIs pushing us all towards knucks. I found this confusing. If it is so good, why do they need to push us to it? The more I looked at it, it got less appealing. In the end I approached a senior 79 SQN QFI, and asked him why I should want to go to knucks. His only response was that if I didn't just desperately want to zoom into the sky in hornet, then I didn't belong. I accepted his advice and continued to work my ass off to earn my wings before moving on to a very rewarding ALG career.

I think most new boggies are like me. They make smart informed decisions. If the rush of zooming around in a hornet is all you have to offer, I think you need to do MUCH better. That would be fun, sure, but once you've ticked that box, what does it offer you in the medium and long term?

For those who think it is good to wish for any form of military transport or support job over a fast jet post, let me just say that if you manage to slip through the selection process don't try to talk up the fact that you are aiming low. The only reason for aiming low is to avoid disappointment, and if that is how you think I hope the military doesn't want you. To my mind, the military needs go getters, not settlers.

This comment displays your total lack of understanding. Aiming for ALG is not aiming low. I worked my ass off to get my wings, and have continued to work hard to be an effective and professional operator providing capability on a range of operations across the globe. I have now moved on to civil opportunities that I am well prepared for given my multi-engine multi-crew background. Throughout my career I have not heard of one bit of information that would have me question that original decision. I would also encourage you desist from the comments about less work being a motivator. There are many things that inform the decision to preference away from knucks, the lower requirement to spend precious days off at work is just one, and often not THE motivator.

Perhaps if you thought of your non-ACG colleagues on a peer basis, instead of assuming they are 'lower', it might help you to start making the comparison the boggies make. You might even start to understand how the opportunity to fly a C17 is an unparalleled opportunity to fly a modern glass cockpit swept wing jet on operations around the globe. I cannot fathom how knucks provides a better opportunity than this.

14th May 2012, 21:36
Gentlemen (?), let's get some stuff straight here. This thread is where youngsters come to seek answers to questions about joining the ADF as pilots. Recently, there has been a significant trend towards uniformed personnel appearing to talk down the ADF's recruitment process.
In my first "on this topic" post I said:
You will find there is inter-type rivalry, inter-service rivalry, inter-personal rivalry. and since then the responses all appear to come from uniforms trying to self justify. Not a problem, but remember who is reading. I am close enough to the system to know that nearly 100% of the youth approaching the screening process wish to fly fast jets. That is the same as it has ever been and no amount of talking down to the youth of today will change that.

I fully understand there are not enough fast jet slots available for all of the 140 odd students who commence BFTS each year, and the subsequent training process is such that most graduates do not achieve their initial goal. IE: they finish up flying something else.

You guys are all focusing on post selection, post training issues. Both of which are important for everyone in military service to face at some point. In bringing it up on a flight screening forum, all you are doing is demotivating at best, or as I have said already, trying to justify the path you either chose or were forced down.

Thanks for all the insights about Gen Y and the later Gen. To be frank, you are all wrong. I believe the youth of today are just as capable and motivated as any youth have ever been. Quit with the pandering nonsense and make way because they are coming through, and they will step up when needed.

Those of the younger generations reading this, please let me say that I, quite uniquely on this thread it seems, believe in you and your ability to step up to the plate should your nation need you in military service. NB: it is a generational thing that the people here are appearing to be condescending towards you. Continue boldly and reach for the stars. Don't let them talk you down.

FHLL, it is aiming low if you shoot for something you perceive to be easier when you originally aimed for a higher goal. That's life, Mate. You seem to be surviving with it in your "sponsored by the people of Australia" commercial pursuits. I suppose you think everyone in the RAAF should join an airline like what you did?

Thanks to the bulk of you who have re-affirmed that the ADF still attempts to recruit warriors before others. That is a good thing. How the ADF manage the process after training seems to be what you all want to talk about. There is nothing new here. The process I went through was nearly identical, and judging by the stories my father told me, it was the same in his day as well. Might I politely suggest you take that to another thread so that this one can go on giving our youth the answers they need to get through flight screening? They really are motivated and they will be fine. Just give them a chance to prove it.

14th May 2012, 23:35

I agree the thread has been drifting from the pre-selection phase to posting issues.

We have been discussing the aspirations and career paths that these applicants will take, in response to queries about what the realities are of careers once you've got your wings. The reason this is happening is because they are smart enough to try to research the whole deal of joining the RAAF. They are rightfully concerned about what happens if they don't get what they are aiming for. We are simply suggesting that by the time streaming comes, there is a very good chance they will be actively seeking ALG. Therefore, don't get stressed about this outcome at the recruitment stage, because there are many who would suggest this is a far better outcome than going to ACG. If the worst case is that you become tagged a career King Air pilot (this appears to be happening to VERY few), you will have had some of the best flying training available anywhere in the world, and you will have a heap of MC/ME experience that will place you very well if yo choose to transition out once you have done your service. Plus you will still have enjoyed the camaraderie of being on a military SQN.

Joining with a goal to go to ALG is a great choice to make. The only issue is that the RAAF revolves around ACG, and therefore candidates are selected on their intention and aptitude to be a knuck. Therefore if a current applicant is smart (and I very much think they are), they will tell everyone exactly what they want to hear until they get to streaming, when they can finally be clear about what they want. I am not advocating dishonesty - simply observing a path that many (not me) have trodden.

Speaking to potential applicants here: as I pointed out before, if ACG was so good, this discussion would be moot. The truth is that if roaring around in a Jet competing with your peers is what makes you tick, then by all means join and push for jets. If you make it then good luck to you, I hope it's everything you dreamed of. For everybody else, DBTW has made a number of posts without making one coherent argument as to why the jet world is so good. You'll get plenty of people from ALG happy to tell you the pros and cons of their world. Have a look at DBTW's attitude. He doesn't know me, what service I provided or what commendations I received. My ALG bosses were grateful to me for my RAAF service and understood my decision to separate based upon the needs of my family. DBTW is prepared to assert that I have used the people of Australia for commercial reasons based on nothing. Because my choices are different to his, he's prepared to make personal attacks, and repeatedly assert that the only basis of my decision can be that I was aiming low and taking an easy route. To me this is typical of the self-absorbed arrogance of ACG. I think everyone in the RAAF should continue to make smart informed choices. Continue boldly and don't let people like DBTW put you off making the decisions that are right for you.

DBTW, I think that you are the only one who thinks that the current applicants aren't smart. They will get to streaming and make informed choices based around facts and information. The question remains: can you offer a comprehensive argument as to why a grad today would want to be a knuck, based upon all the consequences of that decision on themselves, their family, career and professional development?

15th May 2012, 00:28
Good post FHLL

I think what DB is trying to say is we should want to be a knuck because of the perceived status and honor that comes with the position.

Unfortunately this doesn't exist. A person isn't defined by what aircraft they fly. It's just life choices. I wouldn't take my family to tindal just so I can fly a fast jet or anything for that matter. He is right in that this prob isn't the place for such arguments.

15th May 2012, 00:49
Agreed this should probably go in the "RAAF Pilots leaving" forum, which has been inactive for a while.

Maybe some of the senior officers (ie star ranked fighter pilots) who peruse this forum will also wade in.

15th May 2012, 02:36
Agreed this should probably go in the "RAAF Pilots leaving" forum, which has been inactive for a while.

Maybe some of the senior officers (ie star ranked fighter pilots) who peruse this forum will also wade in.

Discussion continued there...

15th May 2012, 08:23

I guess most of its been said for me but. There is no self justification or any other rubbish. What is being offered to you is the reason ACG is struggling to qual its 12 odd knucks a year. We do not want warriors anymore cause they are the people who will get pissed in the back bar and poke you in the chest, as their CO, and tell you how they would run the squadron. They are the people that dance on table tops and take life on in an aggressive fashion, full throttle in after burner , as we all were in my time (as such I was told by my PT 3 that I was not suitable candidate for FJ’s, a long time ago, who happened to be a bloody Admino. Another reason it’s all gone to pot). And guess what ? that is not the type that is wanted anymore. What is wanted is a gentleman officer who know their place and did not step out of line. Please do not continue to embarrass yourself by displaying your sheltered fast jet life. It’s not lack of confidence or belief in gen Z its hard facts. A generation that has been pampered/cotton wooled through school were no-one fails, a generation that wants it now, without the effort. Great, you continue with your belief in the new Gen’s and their capabilities and I am more than happy to be proven wrong but back it up with facts. Pilots course is still hard work but it’s not like it was. Do that again blogs and your scrubbed. We no longer have that negative reinforcement (that worked pretty well). BFTS, 2FTS is a lot kinder when telling someone they are a cripple. CFS is no longer 3FTS. Perhaps that’s your answer the training system has changed to move with the times, has the fast jet world? Very few if any in my time would have knocked back a FJ slot so in that aspect don’t belittle the ones that didn’t get it. Secondly if anyone can be turned off FJ by a bit of talk then they are the wrong stuff, which just lends credibility to what I/we are saying about the new gen. As such it maybe thread drift but its relevant.

16th May 2012, 06:57
Alright, well aside from negative comments directed at Gen Z (...), I don't suppose anyone happens to know how I might be able to contact AvMed at RAAF Edinburgh? I tried the Defence switchboard several times, but the number I've been connected through to is ringing out over and over. I figure asking DFR medical staff is my next option, but I don't want to come across as undermining their system by contacting AvMed directly myself... Appreciate any help!


16th May 2012, 07:41
Is it just to hurry them up? With my medical appeal running over the allotted time, I just kept pestering my local DFR Medical Section once a week until I got a favourable response. I don't have contact details for AvMed though.

16th May 2012, 07:48
Not so much to hurry them along as to double check they have received and are processing my file; I've heard some horror stories of such things getting lost between DFR and AvMed. Might try DFR Medical here in Brisbane again. Appreciate your reply, thanks.

16th May 2012, 10:02
When I contacted the Medical Section in my local DFRC they offered to contact Canberra themselves to make sure that everything was received and whatnot. I'd definitely recommend keeping in contact with your one and perhaps ask them if they could do the same.

16th May 2012, 22:25
Army Pilot Sitting Height Update:
I got a call from the DFR doc yesterday and they have set in stone the Army pilot sitting height - 95cm.
Bad news for me as I'm 96.5cm, she advised it's not something you can appeal now because it's policy, formal waivers and cockpit tests are now a thing of the past.

17th May 2012, 02:12
Well Its been around 2 weeks since my assessment session and I got my call today to attend Tamworth

I'll be on the 9-23 June Course, anyone else going to be on that, send me a pm.

Any information or insight on the course would also be much appreciated


17th May 2012, 15:06
Edit: double posted, sorry

18th May 2012, 12:54
Mooch, really sorry to hear that. Commiserations.
I won't be happy if I don't get in due to something out of my control.

20th May 2012, 08:32
Hey Aydo,

Looks like we'll be on the same FSP :D See you in 3 weeks then!



22nd May 2012, 05:28
Just passed this today.
Consists of:
•Reading gauges - you'll have about 6/7 gauges and be asked 4/5 questions relating to that cluster then there is a new cluster for the next bunch of questions. This isn't too hard, but you won't answer all the questions. One of the guys in my group failed and he was told that this first section is the most important (even though it is pencil and paper and the rest is all on PCs).

•I can't remember this step, but I didn't finish it. This step and all following question and answer tests are multiple choice.

•Reading gauges again - this time you will have a gauge showing the angle at which an aircraft is rolling and it's inclination and a compass. You must choose the correct aircraft based on the gauge and compass. Examples of this test are at this link (http://www.fibonicci.com/airforce/instrument-comprehension-test/).

•Fast maths - you need to do these questions in your head to get as many done as you can. A pencil and paper are provided, but the aim of this test is to measure the speed and accuracy of your mathematical skills. Lots of multiplication and division with both fractions and decimals. Some are quite tricky and try to catch you out. One example is 1/8 x 7832 / 0.125

•Speed, distance, time and fuel - this section has more complex questions that can and should be studied. The Student Room (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501724) has some great examples. One example is "A pilot is 600km away and flying towards an airfield at 200km/h. An aircraft takes off at 300km/h in the direction of the oncoming aircraft. How far away from the airfield will they meet?".

A break and then Joystick and Touchscreen stuff:

•Memory - this can be rather tough. You have to follow a sequence of numbers. This is fine at first except for each 'lag' it gets harder. As the lag goes up you have to delay your input by one number. So you start on lag 0 and press each number as they light up, on the lag 1 you delay your input by 1 number, so when the second number lights up you press the first number and so on. The highest lag that my group got up to was lag 5.

•Multiplication and addition/subtraction - you have to quickly solve mathematical problems and press the correct number (from 1 to 9). You are given two digits and must multiply them then if the result is an even number you multiply the individual digits of that answer. If you multiply the provided digits and get an odd number you must find the difference between them. For example if supplied with "5 7" you multiply the digits and get 35, then because the result is odd you find the difference between the two digits in the answer, so 5-3= 1. If you are given the digits "8 4" you multiply and get 32, then because this is an even number you add the two digits in the answer to get 3+2= 5.

•Joystick stuff - you must keep a small circle inside a larger circle, a cross over a larger cross, etc. There are two joysticks and one controls up/down and the other controls left/right. Sometimes one joystick with control both axes and you must simultaneously solve the above maths problems. Sometimes one will control both axes of a cross which must be kept on a larger cross in the middle of the screen while the other joystick controls the horizontal movement of a circle that must be kept over a line. There are quite a number of different configurations with the joysticks and I honestly can't think of any way to practice for it. As far as people saying that experience with computer games helps, well I don't think it makes much difference. I think you'd get more benefit out of practicing patting your head with or hand while rubbing your stomach with the other hand, because it's about multitasking.

•Dials/Gauges - you use the touchscreen and one joystick to keep gauges and dials centred. Again, there isn't much you can do to practice this. The only thing I could suggest is perhaps not getting too close to the screen so you can keep them all within your field of vision simultaneously.

I have forgotten something here, so read through the rest of this thread. This is all I can remember right now anyway.
It's a fairly full-on batch of tests and for the complex maths (speed/dist/time/fuel) you definitely want to have studied for it or be used to solving those sorts of questions. Also, make sure you read the question carefully because it may ask for how much extra will a trip take or how many gallons of fuel did an aircraft have at a specific point along the journey

22nd May 2012, 05:51
Thanks crazydingo, I actually have good news now though :)
After DFR said I wouldn't be eligible as an Army pilot and couldn't appeal etc, I called PSA and they advised I'm still eligible as the sitting height restriction is DFR's not theirs.
You would think they have one set of standards across DFR, PSA and ADF, oh well.

Congrats on passing additional pilot testing and good luck for assessment day, hopefully you're not waiting long.

24th May 2012, 01:24
Yes, they let you know if you passed or failed once you have finished everything.

28th May 2012, 02:43
Just been to FSP and extremely disappointed to not get a recommendation. I haven't seen many posts from people who didn't make it, so I'm posting about my experience in the hope it might help other people get through.

The main reason I didn't perform well enough, was simple. I never reached a point where the controls and readouts became natural. As examples, I frequently used the wrong rudder pedal to balance, and would sometimes trim in the wrong direction... I'd think "throttle lower" and push forward, or vice versa... I'd even think "smooth inputs" then act like the stick was a 4-way control! Learning the material, was not a problem and I spent many, many hours chair flying (with distractions). But, the airborne environment never "clicked" for me. The most frustrating thing was, I really felt that as soon as I was at ease in the cockpit, everything would fall into place and I'd breeze through all subsequent sorties. I could feel that breakthrough point getting closer, especially on the first flight of each day. I obviously never reached it. Put another way, I didn't adapt quickly enough, which is one of the big things they're screening for.

Another major reason I didn't perform well... I was so worried about failure, I failed. As one of my instructors noted, "The only thing you need to do is relax". Instead, I'd make one mistake and think "Oh man! Oh $#!^! Don't screw this up! You only get one shot at this!"... a pretty non-relaxing thought, which usually spawned a series of mistakes. The only way I could imagine relaxing up there was to try and convince myself that being an army chopper pilot wouldn't actually be the most awesome job in the world. However, I stubbornly refused to believe such delusional nonsense, and thereby continued to stress myself into oblivion.

Based on my experience, my main advice would be to repeat advice already given in this thread. That is, get up there and get a few hours of experience at the controls of a plane. At the very least, buy a full suite of aircraft controls for your PC so that you can fly sims and become familiar using stick, rudder and throttle controls. I'd flown many hours on PC simulators, but only with a joystick and keyboard :(

Also, when people say the workload at FSP is intense, they are not kidding. There were 3 days, where I had 2 flights per day. Processing, reviewing and assimilating what you've learnt on a sortie takes time, and you may only get 2-3 hours to do it. There's not much you can do about that situation except to always study/chair-fly your next 2 sorties... but, you should already know that, by now.

One final bit of advice is to be absolutely sure your helmet fits properly! I tried my helmet on for a few minutes and I didn't notice there was a bit of extra pressure from the forehead pad. About halfway through my first sortie, that slight pressure had created a splitting headache... the headache gave rise to nausea, and some sudden vomiting which I barely managed to swallow (yum! :yuk:). The rest of my lesson was a blur of pain and nausea. I didn't even think to inform my instructor how I was feeling and just kept trying to move my helmet around to reduce the pain, while listening to what he was saying. The worst part though, was that it wrecked me for the rest of the day. I barely managed an hour of study before collapsing into bed around 8pm. Bizarrely, I felt really good the next day... which helped balance my lack of prep for those 2 sorties :O

Anyway, I hope that all helps! Personally, I would've taken the advice of having 6-8 hours of lessons before FSP, except I just don't have the money... the last of my savings went on vision correction surgery. I also stupidly took a 1-hour helicopter lesson, which would've been far more wisely spent on 4 hours of fixed-wing lessons. I seriously considered saving for lessons, but I believed further delay would mean missing the July intake at Duntroon... given the ol' 20/20 hindsight, I should've been patient and aimed for the Jan 2013 intake.

29th May 2012, 04:04
Navy Offers went out today. Unfortunately no call for us. Not sure when the next Army intake is but hopeful for that one.

30th May 2012, 11:34
Has anyone completed the ATC course with RAAF at East Sale?

Would appreciate someone with specific experience to answer a couple of questions.

2nd Jun 2012, 11:56

What an incredibly mature, honest and valuable post you have made for the benefit of all. Mate, I am VERY sorry you didn't get recommended. Your honest and open self critique is something that is so lacking in so many of our applicants, even, unfortunately, for some of those who get through the initial FSP.
For those candidates who will attend FSP in the future, please take the time to digest Kordau's words - he has some important advice.
- Feeling "at ease in the cockpit" is something that is unlikely to happen at Flight Screening - that's deliberate, so don't feel stressed if you never seem to feel comfortable.
- Worrying about failure - this is a tough one to overcome. FSP IS very stressful - try to also allow yourself to enjoy it - probably the first time anyone is paying for you to go flying! (It was for me!)
- Flight sim - may work for some, however can be difficult to really appreciate what trimming is all about and doesn't really train you to set attitudes. If you use this as a tool to become familiar with the instruments, then it can be potentially helpful - but flying ON instruments is NOT what FSP is about.
- "Be absolutely sure your helmet fits properly" - excellent advice - take all the time you need to make sure it is as good as it possibly can be. As Kordau accurately describes, a minor annoyance at the beginning of the flight can turn into a painful and extremely distracting "hot spot" very quickly - usually about the same time you arrive in the training area and need to perform!

Kordau, I really wish you all the best with whatever path you follow from now on. It's a genuine shame that you didn't get through.



3rd Jun 2012, 11:04
Hey guys, First time poster... Long time reader. Just wondering, I saw a few posts on my way through this topic about people transferring from all services to apply for pilot. I'm currently enlisted in the RAAF and have completed the first step of my paperwork to be submitted for my OSB. Just curious as to whether anyone on here has gone through this process and how it differs.

Do we do another 'YOU' style day? Do we have all the aptitude tests etc or after our PE 063, go straight to an OSB to see if we are suitable?

Thanks in advance, Any help in PM would be greatly appreciated.

4th Jun 2012, 22:21
Hi all,

Is anyone aware of when the next Army offers are coming out? If any?


5th Jun 2012, 01:36
Hey guys. I am going to Tamworth next week for FSP. I was just looking in the mirror and noticed that my hair is quite long. Should I go get a buzz cut or just an ordinary haircut? I am happy to get a buzz cut if it is going to be advantageous. But If it is not going to help, I would probably enjoy having hair as long as I can. Thoughts?

5th Jun 2012, 01:58
My advice: Buzz cut not required. Don't draw attention to yourself. Have a normal haircut. Make sure you are clean shaven and hygenic!

11th Jun 2012, 06:48
Hey has anyone used the book get your wings ? Wondering wether it is any good and wether there are any other books that are similar that would help me prepare for testing.

11th Jun 2012, 23:21
Hi campaspe8,

I purchased 'Wings' at the end of last year, it gives a great overview of being a pilot in the ADF right from attending your YOU session all the way to your retirement.
It gives you helpful tips to tackle the different stages of recruiting and training like the aptitude tests, FSP and BFTS.
I'm sure you won't but don't use this as a sole resource or gospel as some of the info was out dated even when I read it, e.g. current operational aircraft.
It also focuses on RAAF more so than Navy and Army, which for me as a potential Army pilot I would have liked a bit more info on the heli specific courses but a trip to Oakey fixed that :)
Overall, for just $50 or whatever it is I think it's worth it.

For other resources, the RAAF website has a wealth of knowledge from history to bases.
The military section of Australian Aviation - Military | Australian Aviation Magazine (http://australianaviation.com.au/category/military/)
Have a read through the current AIR projects on the DMO webpage - Defence Capability Plan 2009 - Public Version (http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/id/dcp/html/air/index.html)
Wikipedia is also a good starting point.
If you are looking for aptitude tutoring I can personally recommend Steven Holding.


12th Jun 2012, 00:53
Thanks for the info. I will check it out.

I just got out of the army after 7 years and am currently in reserves. Turns out it is easier to leave than try to transfer. Just looking for some practice questions and the like so I pass the aptitude testing first up.

This thread is amazing, I am slowly reading it through its length.

18th Jun 2012, 12:28
So after a long drawn out process of application, as I'm sure a lot of people in this thread would know about. I'm finally panelled for Flight Screening on the 15th July. If anyone else is also coming along feel free to PM or message me!

19th Jun 2012, 00:44
Congrats flametail!
Unfortunately I'm not panelled for 15th July but I might see you around as I just got invited to the 21st July course :)

23rd Jun 2012, 23:14
Hi Guys,

Just a quick question out of interest to resolve a discussion at work.

How many hours on average do the hornet pilots get once fully qualified?

If someone can break it down to normal operations/training exercises and deployments it would be much appreciated.

I know this maybe a "how long is a piece of string..." kinda question, but any helpful feedback is welcome.

1st Jul 2012, 08:59
Hi all,

I'm paneled for 15th July FSP at Tamworth so I'm pretty happy just to get there.

Anyway I did my psych interview and aptitude testing in February and I have the book I used to study for the tests in PDF, if anyone wants it send me a PM with your email and I'll flick it to you.

Thanks for the advice in this thread so far and to add to that I've been told to study all things about the military.

This includes history, current operations, air power stuff, what planes we fly and where theyre based etc.

1st Jul 2012, 13:19
Hey all,

I've been looking around for some info and came across this forum, seems to be a lot of great info. I'm an American AF officer looking into the lateral transfer program the RAAF has, does anyone know if the FSP is open to individuals such as myself?

10th Jul 2012, 09:39
Just wondering if they let you know how you went at flight screening after the OSB in Tamworth or later when you leave? I gather by some people stating that they got through they let you know straight away?

Sorry if this has already been asked, to many pages to look through.


11th Jul 2012, 02:35
Dont worry I found my answer previously posted.

11th Jul 2012, 05:09
Just wondering what happens to people that fail along the way to getting their wings?

Is their any obligation for return of service? Or do they just let you go from the ADF?


13th Jul 2012, 06:41

I'm Army and about to start BFTS and if your Army, you can be scrubbed at any time even after you get your wings. I know guys who've been scrubbed with 2 Black Hawk flights to go.

If your SSO you're pretty much shown the door, GSO get streamed into another non-flying postion.

Not sure how RAAF and Navy work.

14th Jul 2012, 00:22
How much choice do you have in the matter of where you go if you do get scrubbed?

14th Jul 2012, 06:27
I think they try and keep you in the aviation field but in the end it's where the spots need to be filled as to where you end up.

17th Jul 2012, 06:35
You will do NEOC as the very first thing you do upon entering the Navy.

17th Jul 2012, 10:47
NEOC (6 - 12 months) -> ADFA (3 years non-engineer) -> BFTS

25th Jul 2012, 21:59

Those 48 offers. Are they coming out start of the year for RAAF or is that the entire quota for the entire year for all 3 forces combined?


27th Jul 2012, 06:19
Anyone know when the next Army offers are coming out?

29th Jul 2012, 03:32
Distribution for all services is in November of this year.

29th Jul 2012, 12:29
Thanks Rookie Pilot - is that the 48 that was previously mentioned?

1st Aug 2012, 02:28
Thanks everyone for contributing to this huge thread.

I have a question, it may have been covered but i have gone through most of the pages and haven't seen it yet.

I have my You Session next week in Brisbane for direct entry Pilot and I am pre-empting a question similar to "if you are not successful for pilot entry what else would I consider". Now I am not sure how to answer a question like that.

The honest answer is that I only want to fly, my preference is with the Air force but if not successful I will look into other avenues like private lessons or uni. My lifelong dream is to fly in the airforce and not necessarily jets either, I would prefer the big stuff like C17's etc.

My issue is will this answer put me in a negative position with the recruiter because it might seem I am not dedicated to the RAAF?

My background I am currently 28, I am a qualified mechanic and am now a technical trainer.

Thanks in advance for the help.

1st Aug 2012, 06:16
How did people go on the 15th July flight screening?

5th Aug 2012, 03:38
5/6 for 15th
4/8 for 21st

6th Aug 2012, 07:20
myskyhigh, pretty sure those 48 offers are just for ADFA spots next year. last i heard its about 20 total for all 3 services DEO for the offers at the end of november, then another one sometime in april/ may next year.

Fingers crossed.


6th Aug 2012, 08:32
Hey there,
If anyone has completed assessment day recently, are you required to write an essay sometime during the day based on one of a few available topics/questions??
If so, does anybody know these topics/questions??


8th Aug 2012, 00:21
I am waiting for the same answer as Dan.

8th Aug 2012, 01:00
The psychologist will get you to answer three questions and it's up to you how much you write. I can't remember the questions, but the few I had were personal, probing questions as opposed to service questions.

Dilmah G
8th Aug 2012, 06:06
Don't stress, you only get something like 15 minutes to do it anyway. Just show them you're not a brainless ****wit when it comes to your written expression, and try to appear at least moderately sane in the interview and you're well on your way to passing that segment of the Assessment Day.

10th Aug 2012, 03:46
Hi all,

I have just completed the FSP at Tamworth and one of the things discovered there in relation to Army pilot sitting height was that its ben changed so no linger is the 95cm height critical. You might need to rethink your preferneces based on this.

There is much i learned from the 2 weeks so if your keen for any inside tips on the training and what to expect incl the OSB then feel free to email me at
[email protected]


10th Aug 2012, 03:55
Just got back from FSP:
20th November offers are for all services (year end)
6 Army

Bear in mind as at 2 weeks ago there were 45 in the pool with another 60 people to go through screeningsoooo unless your a high -recommended you might not get in in november

Next round is April

11th Aug 2012, 02:39
Hey markoshark
I'm not sure if they spoke to you about this at FSP,but giving giving out hints and inside tips on what goes on at flight screening is only watering down your own chances of gaining a place in your chosen service and that of the other 45 or so that are still In the pool !!
With places being so limited and the numbers of screeners still to come id be personally keeping tight lipped to give myself the best possible chance !!

12th Aug 2012, 03:35
Yeah that might be relevant if i did get recommended !;)

I am just happy to help people out so whether thats good or bad i really dont care... I had some help but i wish i had had more. the defence personel are getting plenty !

My new blog site fo those who want help is below:

12th Aug 2012, 03:57
Ten out of ten for wanting to help your mates, but Ds has a very good point.

For all that are trying to get in- do the work yourself. I have never trusted any work (except the manuals obviously) but my own when it comes to preparation for any sortie. All due respect to Marko, but can you put your hand on your heart and say your notes are 100% accurate?


(ex BFTS):ok:

Captain Sand Dune
12th Aug 2012, 04:07
Oh, and learn how to spell.
Not you, OP! Anyway aren't you far too busy to have time to poke around on PPRuNE?!.:E

12th Aug 2012, 05:33
CSD- Well it is Sunday!

Would have thought they'd have you flying on a Sunday- being at the centre of excellence and all:rolleyes::E
Back to flying real aircraft soon....

12th Aug 2012, 08:44
Hi Marko,

To be honest, I am really disappointed that you would make a post such as this. There are people who have worked their asses off to get recommended and whilst you didn't, after a post such as this I can understand why.

You are putting every applicant that has been recommended and is currently sitting in the pool at a disadvantage by posting this - and I am sure the majority of them are not currently serving.

If maturity was a factor I am sure you failed on that one!

One of the other things they look for is being able to following instruction, something that once again you have failed in.

Whilst I can understand your disappointment, you are doing the same thing.......if not worse then the people you thought had an advantage over you.


12th Aug 2012, 09:39
I'm sorry Liz, you do seem very mature yourself. You obviously missed the fact that plenty of applicants are ADF (half of my course). Is is fair that they have an advantage over every other applicant by having the mass brief contents to learn months before the FSP ? Yeah no, i dont think so.... I assume your in the pool and are having a little cry about missing out on a position :{. Well hate to disappoint you but if you didn't get a high rec your probably not going to get a position anyway.

What i am doing is trying to level the playing field for non-ADF people like me. if that is putting 45 people in the pool under some extra pressure then fine.
Grow up and put the benefit of many before the benefit of the few, yourself included !

12th Aug 2012, 09:59
Obviously their screening process is working.

12th Aug 2012, 10:27
Integrity, honesty, professionalism ..... (not worth the effort to carry on with the list as it obviously will mean nothing to you). As Wag pointed out there is an obvious reason why some do not get recommended. As far as half the applicants being ADF, well if the rest of what you have to offer is this accurate then there will be no issues. Combined with the ADF applicants get the Mass Briefs months before is total drivel.
What is the many?? The ones that require extra help to get a recommendation? These are the people you want the many to use their taxes to pay for the below par to get a recommendation and make if half way through and then be suspended.
At you age one would expect a certain amount of life experience which would hopefully consolidate a base of maturity combined with some ethical aspects that would reflect some of the above mentioned attributes. Not to belabour a point but it looks like the OSB got it right with you.

12th Aug 2012, 11:15
Alternatively you could do what all good pilots do, learn from your mistakes, dump the blog and carry on. Re the mass briefs, as they don't exist on the defense network, rather the contractors, any widespread conspiracy theory of people getting all the info is pretty unlikely. Pm me if you want to discuss:)

13th Aug 2012, 02:28
I wouldn't be too concerned about this so called blog. There is no magic gouge for FSP, especially from someone who didn't make it. It's like the guy on pilots course who thinks back running will make it easier as all his mates have been there before. They still get scrubbed.

13th Aug 2012, 03:46
I dont have a problem with Markoshark giving advice or writing a blog or doing whatever he wants to be honest, its a free world after all. I went on PSF a month ago and come out with a recommendation. I dont think having advice would have helped that much, after all your the one that needs to do the work/ flying and pass the interview. What about the books about becoming an ADF pilot such as 'Wings'? Does that give people an unfair advantage? What about applicants that dont know anyone in the ADF and going in their blind compared to someone who has a mate in the ADF or just done the screening process? I think if people go to the effort to find as much as possible about they have to do should have an advantage compared to someone who does not put in the leg work. At the end of the day it comes down to your ability, you could know everything at PSF before hand and still not get through and vice versa. Hopefully the process works so people that get through make it all the way. I look forward to reading your blog Markoshark, the link did not work.


13th Aug 2012, 03:51
Also OP, I believe the ADF guys on course had access to the BTFT manuals ect. I dont think it was the mass briefings. I dont think the BFTS manuals would have been much use after all its alot of information to go through. Also nothing stopping people photocopying the mass briefs and putting them online, surprised it has not happened already. Probably why they are not very useful!!


13th Aug 2012, 03:56
I dont have a problem with Markoshark giving advice or writing a blog or doing whatever he wants to be honest, its a free world after all. I went on PSF a month ago and come out with a recommendation. I dont think having advice would have helped that much, after all your the one that needs to do the work/ flying and pass the interview. What about the books about becoming an ADF pilot such as 'Wings'? Does that give people an unfair advantage? What about applicants that dont know anyone in the ADF and going in their blind compared to someone who has a mate in the ADF or just done the screening process? I think if people go to the effort to find as much as possible about they have to do should have an advantage compared to someone who does not put in the leg work. At the end of the day it comes down to your ability, you could know everything at PSF before hand and still not get through and vice versa. Hopefully the process works so people that get through make it all the way. I look forward to reading your blog Markoshark, the link did not work.


13th Aug 2012, 04:19
I also think that this thread should not be used to have a go at people. You dont know why Markoshark didnt get a recommendation. Fair enough have your own opinion about him giving advice, but its easy to call names over the internet when you dont even know the guy. I hope this is not a sign of what the ADF is like if I get in.


13th Aug 2012, 04:56

By Marko

Yeah that might be relevant if i did get recommended !
Gives an indication of not necessarily helping others but just diluting the whole process because he didn't make it. Your backing this guy because?????

As much as you like to think its a free world its not. Apart from many other restrictions, is the prime one of responsibility. In particular taking responsibility for your actions. As Marko is finding out there are a lot of people who believe in doing the right thing, which is what has been requested of them in a professional setting. There is no way you could justify, as has been attempted, that what Marko is doing is trying to help others. It is naive to thinks other's have not discussed what happens at FSP but the majority don't shout it from the roof tops trying to mask it by advocating they are helping the many.

Yes this IS the ADF you are getting into, unfortunately not as stringent as it was 10 + years ago. You do not want people you cannot trust on your wing. If Marko is big enough to have a crack at someone without having met them, assume your in the pool and having a little cry on missing out, then he is big enough to take the responsibility for the reaction it has caused.

13th Aug 2012, 07:32

So your saying that he is motivated by trying to get more people in to try and dilute the pool which is not benefit or disadvantage to him? I would see it more as trying to help people who dont have access to people in the know. He is using this own time and not getting much out of helping random people. I dont think this is a case of being right/ wrong or a matter of trust. I dont see a great advantage in knowing what you are doing for two weeks at PSF. Its not that Im backing Markoshark, I just dont agree with what your saying and voicing my opinion which I am entitled to in our democratic society and free world. My comment about 'having a crack' went both ways, I dont think anyone should have a go at people they dont know and never meet just because they have different point of views.


13th Aug 2012, 09:25
More than enough information in this thread to give you guys an advantage over those who don't read it.

The notes on that blog were dodgy at best and merely contained the insights of an outsider who obviously does not fully understand the recruitment process.

14th Aug 2012, 07:41
Hi, I'm in the process of going through this entire thread and can't seem to find an answer to a question I have. I am on the other end of the height scale, and have been through the aptitude test and in the terms of the recruit counsellor, trying to be 'sold' as a pilot due to my extensive history in aviation. I would love nothing more than this as I have been working towards it for many years but am extremely concerned I will be knocked back initially due to my height of which is approx 160cm. I am female and definitely not going to find the necessary 3cm that the website says is required, but am unsure if the standards I am looking at are for across the board ie. all services and all types of aircraft? And also for other jobs such as ACO?

If anyone has any light on this I would be extremely grateful! I want to knuckle down and get into studying and start preparing for further aptitude tests and assessments but can't get my head past that I may not physically be able to progress any further. Please help! I get measured next Monday. I know they will tell me then but I don't think I can hold out that long!

14th Aug 2012, 09:51
Get to FSP, and work your arse off. You will get the result you were after.

I'm sure FSP has changed even in the two years since I did it, but I'm sure the common formula hasn't. Put in the hard yards while at Tamworth, I'm sure you will reap the reward.

As far as Mass Briefs go, the time you get given to learn the material is pretty adequate, certainly most of my friends and myself managed fine.

And I don't think the MB's are on DRN either. As someone above said, it is a Bae thing. BFTS SATG and Type Manuals etc are on their, but that is of bugger all use on FSP.

17th Aug 2012, 09:19
It's not only height - it's weight. There are upper and lower limits for ejection seats (too tall or too heavy and you won't get out in time, too short or too light and the seat will break you on the way out). Since Army do not train in ejection seat fitted aircraft, this may still be an option for you.

Good Luck !;)

23rd Aug 2012, 05:44
True no mass briefs on the ADF intrnet but the SATG is.... which has the entire content from the mass briefs in chapters 4-110,14. The mass brief is a BAE systems doc...its a civilian run base (much to the dismay of the OSB)

In response to the kind comments offered by other in the forum, i think they speak for themselves. I'll will say that these forums are for advice sharing and not personal insults.

i'll just say that being prepared by any comments i have made isn't ging to get you recommended. Its your flying at the FSP and flying under pressure. I think that if you know what you have to do in a manouver before you get there then you might be more relaxed.

Get yourself plenty of time in the air before you go down there, spend some coin and make sure your comfy behind the controls and can control the aircraft rather than you responding to it (Trim, trim, trim )

Good Luck to you all...:ok:

23rd Aug 2012, 05:53
Although i can see your concern comes from a good place, Sadly, you missed my point which was about the ingruence of having half the applicants given access to the training manual and the other half not ie non-ADF.

Isn't that allowing the ADF peronel to "slip through the cracks" ????
but i guess that is ok, if you are ADF ?

FSP is about your improving ability in flying nd rate of learning, this will be identified in the air and there is no fooling the instructors, they know. What i'm saying is the manual can only do so much for you. I'm not giving people a magical pass to get through screening. The only ADV you can get is time in the air behind the controls

Also, suggest you look up the meaning of irony...

23rd Aug 2012, 08:55
too tall or too heavy and you won't get out in time.

Not quite correct, If your seated height is too tall, then your head will be above the horns (canopy breakers) on the seat, which means your head hits the canopy of the PC9 before the seat. Not a good thing. The over weight is due to the seat mounting ponts on the floor of the PC9. For other aircraft in the RAAF inventory, these limits may not matter so much, but as the Training aircraft for RAAF and Navy are PC9, then those limits apply for selection.

23rd Aug 2012, 10:09
Hi all,

I got back from FSP a month ago - unfortunately without a reccomendation which was somewhat disheartening at the time. However, I am still motivated to become an RAAF pilot and was thinking of waiting and re-applying again in 3 years or possibly even look at another avenue of entry, in particular aerospace engineering.

My question relates to changing job roles withing the RAAF while you still have an outstanding IMPS; has anyone heard of this happening?
I already spoke to recruiting and got the expected answer but was reading on the Defence Jobs website which stated that it was "subject to service requirements."

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


Captain Sand Dune
24th Aug 2012, 07:28
The mass brief is a BAE systems doc...its a civilian run base (much to the dismay of the OSB)
If you mean the SATG, it is written by, amended by and owned by the ADF. And the ADF BFTS is a military unit. Please stop peddling your conspiracy theories.

25th Aug 2012, 21:47
Yeah SATG....if it exists which you just acknwledged, how is it a conspiracy ?
Its BAE & ADF co-branded, but really its irrelevant who does what in it isnt it.

Its a good read fo those going to FSP if you want a little pre-info on what your doing there. Its NOT going to fly the plane for you though.

Good luck !:ok:

25th Aug 2012, 23:47
Markoshark........ Mate, a bit of advice. You're carrying on like a pork chop and making yourself look like a goose. For your sake, stop.

Tamworth is a military base, run by the ADF ....... BAE do a nice job supporting the military effort ..... Not the other way around.

The Student Air Training Guide (SATG) exists on the intranet for military students studying the BFT and IPC courses. It is a military document. It provides no advantage to ADF FSP candidates who try and read it prior to FSP, because it has nothing to do with the FSP course. You are not taught the SATG and you are not assessed on the SATG. There are elements that differ between the SATG and FSP documents because they are indeed different courses. The FSP material is not on the intranet, so serving members and people off the street are equal at Flight Screening. It is that plain and simple.

FSP is about where you start, where you finish and how you go in the middle. It highlights your strengths, your weaknesses and as best as it can, provides some scope for future potential. A couple of pages telling you how to do climbing turns, fly straight and level and a loop is not the difference between you getting in or not.

Accept that there was only one person flying that plane - you. Accept that unfortunately you didn't perform to the required standard. It's a tough bullet to bite, but one you'd be catching regularly if you did earn a jersey. A bit of maturity would do yourself wonders. No doubt your dream came to an abrupt end and I feel sorry for you in that regard. I do however note that the ADF spent a significant sum of money on you and gave you every opportunity to perform the best you could. I have no doubt that you were instructed well and were fairly assessed. The ADF has done everything right by you. If you believe otherwise, lodge a dispute. Either way, this forum is not the place for your E&D complaints.

This is a forum for professionals and those that strive to be, as the name implies. Your disgruntled antics are pathetic. This thread is one of the largest and most read on the entire forum. It is meant to be an information source for aspiring military aviators. People from all over the world are reading this. Cut the crap mate.

26th Aug 2012, 04:12
How true is the old saying "many are called but few chosen".

The ADF can get all the applicants it needs and the whole process is sorting out those who have a good chance of making the grade.

Some of the important things they are looking for is leadership and skills to become a good officer. You could be the best flyer in the course and still not make the grade. You will be continually tested and watched for signs of lack of maturity. The ADF can get all the good aircrew it needs, but also needs people who do not spit the dumb, but most importantly can lead.

Some of the remarks I read make me cringe and wonder why you wasted your and the Air forces time going to Tamworth.

Time for some of you to understand that the ADF does not owe you anything.

All the best to those who are really trying



26th Aug 2012, 14:37
Hey Ryano,

The reason this thread goes on forever and loses any informative value is because of idiots like you wanting to fill it with personal insults which are testament to your immaturity & stupidity.

Furthermore as to your comments: BAE make the rules on the base, period. This came from Major Heffernan, current member of the OSB. If you think you know more about FSP that a member of the OSB at FSP then good luck to you mate.

SATG contains the exact notes from the FSP just just need a brain to be able to find the correct chapters in amongst the additional information (not a big one). I have a copy sent to me 3 weeks ago which i am looking at right now. I did FSP 4 weeks ago mate....think i remember the mass brief better than you.

Now you and the other wowsers stop destroying this thread. I originally posted to offer help to any FSP candidates who want to hear my experiences at FSP.

I wont be back to this thread as its clogging it up thread with people that thing PPRule is for personal insults and voicing of incorrect information:

Email me at: [email protected] if your wanting any advice or have any questions on FSP. THIS IS THE ENTIRE REASON THIS THREAD STARTED.
Im out...

26th Aug 2012, 21:46
Markoshark said
Im out...

Thank goodness for that...

I'm sure your email will be inundated by people hoping to glean some of your wisdom. :}

Please stay away.

Righto, now that's over, let's get back to what this thread is about, eh?

27th Aug 2012, 12:06
Hey guys,
Anyone else here rostered in for the Sept-Oct ADFA FSP? Almost 8 months on from my assessment day and a week before HSC exams and I'm looking forward to an intense fortnight! Anyone else on the course feel free to send me a message on here and good luck for what will no doubt be a tough next two months!


2nd Sep 2012, 23:35
I am not sure there is an essay writing on the assessment day but if yes, can anyone give me some of the topics??

4th Sep 2012, 04:31
Having recently attended the FSP and read some of the more than questionable posts on here I'm reluctant to weigh in with my two cents, but I will say this.

It does no good to try and get a leg-up at the screening program. You're being assessed on how well you'll do at flight school and the rest of your military career, not how well you can do in a two-week period. It is redundant to excel at the FSP due to some advantage you've gleaned, only to waste the defence force's time and the taxpayers' money by being chopped from the real thing once they find out you're no good.

Practise your maths and get a little stick time to be comfortable in the air, sure. But all of this attempting to level the playing field by getting the trade secrets is analagous to a med student only passing his exam by sneaking a peek at the answers - he's going to end up an incompetent doctor.


4th Sep 2012, 08:31
Hi Marko, just to clear up your concerns regarding the ADF people having an advantage, for any given intake, whether that is the RAAF, Army or Navy roughly 8 out of 10 spots are given to civilian personnel and the remaining 2 offered to "in service" applicants (This is an approximate figure). So regardless of how well the ADF guys do, you have to pretty much be the best out of all "in service" candidates to get a spot.

Regardless of where the "in service" candidate is in the pool, civilians with worse FSP and OSB scores often get picked ahead of the "in service" candidates due to the amount of civilians getting offered positions.

So I would not worry about whether or not the ADF guys are in front or have a perceived advantage as they only get offered a small percentage of the positions made available.

Speaking from experience, and as you should know the key for FSP is to work hard when in Tamworth. There is more than enough time to "chair fly" and go over the mass briefs so when you get in the CT4 you are just going through the motions.

I'd also recommend doing some research before arriving there on various Defence establishments around the country and what Squadrons are where etc. This is obviously for the OSB component.

Good luck to all who are applying for the ADF as a pilot. Work hard, be positive, dedicate yourself and do not worry too much about what others are doing/not doing.