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4th Jun 2010, 13:38
Sorry, unethical was the incorrect term. Maybe unacceptable is more appropriate.

5th Jun 2010, 02:01
12 months is beyond most peoples event horizon.

5th Jun 2010, 02:36
How long is the wait between assessment day and FSP? i'm sure it's varied, but i wouldn't mine hearing from a few people as to how long they had to wait.


5th Jun 2010, 02:57
I finished my assessment day in December and was in FSP early March, however I had to muck around with some information that I apparently had not submitted and consequently there was a delay before my dossier was submitted to PSA.

5th Jun 2010, 03:01
Hi Mvdia,

It varies so much. I've heard people wait up to 8 months, others waited a couple of weeks. At the moment, the earliest course for DEO is the 21st of August (2 courses, 9 positions each), then after that is the October courses (4 courses with 6 positions on each course).

Hang in there, you'll get a call eventually!!!!


5th Jun 2010, 03:09
thanks for the reply,

I assume your now waiting to here if you got in or not?
How did you go in your FSP?

5th Jun 2010, 03:46
Yes, we are now waiting for an offer.

Our FSP course went well, 7 people got recommended out of 9. Scores were good too, a few of our guys cleaned up and got really good results (Romper being one of them! He frequently got a stanine of 'Dean'). It is interesting, because your results are revealed at the end of the course and the instructors never give too much away!


5th Jun 2010, 07:32

yeah, good one Elliot!

mvdia1, From when PSA received my File to getting the call for FSP was around 2 weeks for me, and i received about 4 weeks notice for attending.

5th Jun 2010, 08:49
From PSA receiving my file to getting the call was two weeks for me too, but I was only given two weeks notice for FSP.

Edited: Keeping the FSP secrets ;)

5th Jun 2010, 09:29
Has anyone here got an ADFA place at FSP for the July holidays yet?

6th Jun 2010, 08:39
Nope. But I have been put on for an OSB at ADFA for ACO in three weeks, should be interesting. Looks as though I'll have to wait a bit longer for a shot at a FSP. Just means more gliding in the meantime.

Next course for ADFA after June-July is September holidays. Fingers crossed.

Have you already had any OSB's for any of your other preferences?

6th Jun 2010, 08:44
I was recommended from Assessment Day on the 29th of April, and still haven't had my file sent to PSA in Tamworth yet. But all should be rectified by the end of the week. Seems like you are going to need quite an impressive dossier to be considered for the August Flight Screening dates... Good luck lads!

6th Jun 2010, 08:51
Where do you guys get the information on FSP dates?

6th Jun 2010, 08:53
What was the hold up mate? If you don't mine me asking.

Dilmah G
6th Jun 2010, 09:10
mvdia1: Knock yourself out mate. (http://www.raaf.gov.au/psa/docs/schedule2010.pdf)

By the way, I've been hearing about some 'ADFA Maths Test' from a mate of mine who did his YOU session a few weeks ago, does anyone know what's involved?

6th Jun 2010, 09:11
Here's the link for the course schedules mate:

ADF Pilot Selection Agency: Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.airforce.gov.au/psa/schedule.aspx)

The hold up involved a slight medical discrepancy, which should be cleared up on Monday. When did you complete your Assessment Day?

7th Jun 2010, 05:42
My dossier took like a month or two to get its way to FSP.

Ye I believe im going to Canberra on the 29th of June, Aero eng!

7th Jun 2010, 06:19
Just had my assessment day today, i got recommened for both my first and second preference. 1st: pilot 2nd GSO.

i have my gso date for OSB, they told me i will be contacted for FSP.

Great feeling passing assessment day.

Now to be prepared for OSB...

if you guys can give me any tips for FSP, i'm happy to take as much information as possible. What was the routine like at FSP?

7th Jun 2010, 06:44

Routine varies. You generally do at least a flight a day sometimes two, from very early in the morning till the arvo. You have to hang around up at the BAE facility for this time studying very hard (ie. trying to do so whilst socialising with ADF and Singaporean BFTS students and playing jenga...).

I could tell you more, but its all in this thread. Start from the beginning; there's some golden material and I found it was invaluable prep stuff for FSP. ;)

Edit: Congrats on your success at Assessment day too!

8th Jun 2010, 00:09
Well done mvidia!! From which service was the officer interviewing you?

8th Jun 2010, 06:19

Mud_Rat has good advice, trawl through the forum; it has some great tips.

I had the exact same question with regards to daily routine when at FSP.
During the week, my typical day was:

0630: wakeup
0720: breakfast with course mates
0755: at BAE facilities crew common room
0930: Scheduled flight
1215: lunch
1300: back at crew room, wait around; read notes, youtube on computers and play jenga
1700: back to the blocks
1815: Dinner with course mates
1900: Eat ice-cream from mess in block common room, talk about the model plane, speeches and Dean's (Romper) flying scores.
1930: Study study study study (lots of chair flying!!).

When I had 2 flights in one day, I would normally be flying at around 1300, so I would have lunch in the crew common room. Some days you will have scheduled lessons and briefs with PSA staff etc.

On the weekend you generally have time off, go to the Aerobar if your over 18, tennis, study, Model plane work.

Each day is fairly full on, but I remember reading in the Mass Brief material: "Short stay. work hard. direct your attention." or something like that, which is a fairly good way of looking at it; its only 2 weeks so work your balls off.


Polymer Fox
8th Jun 2010, 06:36
Hi guys.

Chalk up another who has just had their material passed on to the PSA. It seems that this thread is a breeding ground for those who are passing through the selection process. I'd just like to say thank you very much to all of those that have been talking about their stories and what they have faced because it has really helped in my selection process. Hopefully a few of us that have had our material passed on will meet each other at the coming FSP sessions. I'm in the hunt for a RAAF DEO position.

Sadly I've got some depressing news as well. I can confirm that the RAAF is slowing down the training process as there aren't enough pilots leaving the ranks and this is causing a few bottlenecks. I had the lucky chance to chat to someone at DFR who had just finished her BFTS course. Initially her waiting time for 2FTS was 3 months but just recently she has been told that the waiting time is now going to be from 6 to 12 months. Hopefully this doesn't affect those trying to get in now too much.

Fingers crossed for everyone!

8th Jun 2010, 08:58
Yeah, I wonder whether the bottlenecks would affect anyone in the ADFA stream, Hopefully not. The rumours have been around for a while now and I can distinctly remember it being dismissed as untrue on my assesment day. Seems to be true enough now though.


Awesome, I'll see you in canberra then. I get there on the Sunday and have the Board on the Monday and Tuesday. I'm assuming this would be the same for you? I'm gonna have to start getting acustomed to waking up early.

Dilmah G
8th Jun 2010, 09:04
Well as far as ADFA stream goes, was it ryano who pointed out there are more ADFA FSP courses this year than last? (Usually I'd look it up myself, but I have an Intro-Calc exam to study for).

That *probably* translates to more ADFA slots, perhaps they see more blokes in ADFA vs. DEO as a way to delay the number of pilots entering the BFTS-2FTS cycle -> Mitigate the problem? Who knows.

8th Jun 2010, 10:15
So you get there on the 27th?
And you have two days of ROSB?

I get there on the Tuesday and have my interview on the Wednesday.
And yeah, lots of early mornings!
We'll survive I guess

8th Jun 2010, 10:19
I was lucky enough to fly first wave almost every day, which means I was down there in my flight suit and prepped at 0615. Some hated being first wave, but you couldn't beat the ultra smooth thermal-free flying conditions. Also means you can take time to wait in line for an icecream at lunch. :ok:

Yes ADFA slots have been ramped up a bit and DEO knocked back, but in a few years time we will have platforms such as the Rhino and Wedgetail delivered fully and (hopefully) either at FOC or approaching it, and the KC-30A somewhere apart from Spain...hopefully. They'll have more aircraft with better availability than the ones they're replacing, they will be needing more pilots for that period and into the future (~2015 for Caribou replacement). The intake numbers have been constantly fluctuating, but no doubt it will begin to turn again as it always does.

10th Jun 2010, 12:04
Don't rely on a Bou replacement. King Airs will be there for a loooonnggg time!
But some good new toys are here or almost here so things should improve.

11th Jun 2010, 09:54

Thats about right, I leave on Wednesday morning. See you there. I'm still putting together my 5 minute speech. Getting a haircut tomorrow, epic.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the intake of pilots over the next few years. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the figures from intakes in the past twenty years.

Speaking of good new toys, has anyone else seen the photos of the Super Hornets on the defence website?

11th Jun 2010, 10:09
AlexanderB (http://www.pprune.org/members/312150-alexanderb) and Rotor11,

Are you guys heading to Canberra for your OSB?

What are your preferences?

11th Jun 2010, 12:56
We sure are!
My first pref is RAAF pilot ADFA
My second is RAAF Aero Engineer ADFA

13th Jun 2010, 07:46
First: Pilot RAAF (ADFA)
Second: Pilot RAN (ADFA)
Third: Air Combat Officer RAAF (ADFA) (The one I'm going to Canberra for)

Aero Engineering sounds like a pretty heavyweight degree, I'm going for Aviation If you get an offer for Pilot (ADFA) are you still going to do the Aero Engineering or B.Tech Aviation?

Mvdia1, Is your OSB these holidays?

13th Jun 2010, 09:37
My dossier has finally been sent to Tamworth lads, in the mix now!
For DEO applicants; what are your thoughts of the competitiveness of the August Flight Screening intakes? Seems like there is limited Flight Screening positions for the remainder of the year to be honest...

Dilmah G
13th Jun 2010, 09:38
Best of luck Blackbird, :ok:

13th Jun 2010, 14:17
Nobody knows, blackbird. The way I see it, we all chose to turn a blind eye to "the chances" when we decided to pursue a career as a pilot, let alone one in the ADF. Statistics of you getting into FSP this year are against you, but that's meaningless, not least of all because the situation in the pool and how it relates to your file is unpredictable and always changing.

If you feel you've got a competitive application then that's the best case scenario given the otherwise complete ambiguity of the process! Good luck, I hope you get your spot.

Captain Sand Dune
13th Jun 2010, 22:50
given the otherwise complete ambiguity of the process
"Ambiguous" to you perhaps. My advice to potential ADF pilot recruits is to concentrate on the job at hand and let PSA get on with their job.

Polymer Fox
14th Jun 2010, 06:56
Use the extra time to your advantage. There are plenty of things that you can study prior to OSB. I'm going to be spending a lot of time on leadership and the theories behind it. If everyone is a good pilot, the interview at the end of the process could be the thing that sets you apart from everyone else. Afterall, when you're in the RAAF as a pilot you're an Officer first and a pilot second.

Another idea could be to get some extra flying in. It doesn't necessarily have to be you flying the plane either. Back seat time in a small aircraft is fantastic to get your head around all sorts of things. This way you will be able to see the bad habits that people get in with their flying and if you already have some flying experience you might find a few techniques to areas that need improvement. I'd suggest finding a flying school or aero-club that has a CPL course attached to it. When I was doing my CPL my instructor encouraged me to take people along because it gave me the chance to practice commercial operations with passengers. So this way you can scratch their back and they can scratch yours. Both you and the student will get something more out of each flight.

14th Jun 2010, 10:12

Both my preferences have Aero eng at ADFA

16th Jun 2010, 12:42
Nice, I was thinking about putting down for the Aero Engineering course but considering how much I hated math methods at the time I thought again. At the moment I don't think that the Degree preferences have gone in yet, so I'll still leave it open as another option just in case. I'll probably get over my maths phobia at some point.

Heres an interesting question for anyone: what happens if you fail any part of your training after the second year of ADFA/Initial Training? How do you finish your ROSO? Not to be pessimistic or anything but its just a matter of interest.

17th Jun 2010, 06:20
I enjoy maths and physics, so engineering is an obvious choice!

18th Jun 2010, 03:37
Statistics of you getting into FSP this year are against you, but that's meaningless, not least of all because the situation in the pool and how it relates to your file is unpredictable and always changing

I think you might be giving some duf gen. I have counted up the numbers on the past two FSP schedules and they both come to 275. The courses will be run next year and your application doesn't go pumpkin shaped on New Years Eve. So now or later your application has the same chances. Post FSP is probably different.

And where's the info about pool situation being unpredictable coming from? IMHO if you think the chances are against you then your right. If you don't then your right. Either way, if your jawing off about something you know nothing about, you're wrong.

18th Jun 2010, 10:49
And where's the info about pool situation being unpredictable coming from? IMHO if you think the chances are against you then your right. If you don't then your right. Either way, if your jawing off about something you know nothing about, you're wrong.

My information on the predictability of the pool comes straight from the horses mouth whilst I was at FSP, mate. Given the reliability of my source, it seems you might be "jawing off about something you know nothing about". In relation to my earlier point, there are far more dossiers received by PSA than there are spots on FSP, so yes by the numbers my statement is correct irrespective of how you want to look at it.

I think you might be giving some duf gen. I have counted up the numbers on the past two FSP schedules and they both come to 275. The courses will be run next year and your application doesn't go pumpkin shaped on New Years Eve. So now or later your application has the same chances. Post FSP is probably different.

This has almost no relevance to my previous post. Are there 275 places on the schedule each year? There was 275 places on the calendar for both 2010 and 2009, so the smart money is on 275 for 2011. Will there be 275 people to have passed through FSP by the end of this year? No. Once again, having been there and been informed on the situation whilst at FSP, it turns out that unless they squeeze in a couple more unscheduled courses before the end of the year that goal will not have been reached. This has also been confirmed by others who have recently returned from FSP.

We have no information on anyone's competitiveness, but the fact that DFR continues their Assessment Days all year round (dossiers going to FSP) whereas DEO courses make way ~mid year for ADFA courses (with the exception of a few late DEO courses) suggests that the number of people waiting for spots on DEO FSP builds as ADFA FSP courses begin to move in. Therefore there is a larger pool of applicants and less of a chance of getting in to the later screening courses in between the ADFA lots. Essentially, it would seem that how competitive FSP slots are fluctuates throughout the year. This is a logical assumption based on what facts we have, however I am aware of no reliable source that confirms or denies this.

18th Jun 2010, 14:13
It seems a natural progression that all useful threads on any forum become riddled with bullsh*t button pushing comments and 'I know better' arguments... It is one thing that really frustrates me about the internet...

Anyway I thought I'd get back involved seeing as i'm intending to kick my application off again next week. I put it on hold when my file was up at PSA as i felt there were many things i could work on prior to going to flightscreening. Also i wanted to get a bit of a taste of "life" (because school apparently isn't it) i.e. travelling, learning away from school, working, flying etc. And in this quick 7 months since school finished I feel that i've grown much as a person compared to my days at school, and i can only recommend keen school leavers for next year, or even people who left last year do the same.

I'll definetly be going into this again with much greater confidence and even more determination than I previously possessed.

Its good reading that many of you have made it through to flight screening, and even onto training.

All the best to everyone else, and i'll be sure to pass on any advice or insight i gain as i go back for round 2.

On a quick note, i see many of you have done similar after not passing a stage. Has anyone else done the same as I, that is, without a knockback, and then reapplying, and also for such a short time period?



18th Jun 2010, 16:24
@ Nick

It seems a natural progression that all useful threads on any forum become riddled with bullsh*t button pushing comments and 'I know better' arguments... It is one thing that really frustrates me about the internet...Couldn't have said it better myself mate! There is way to much dick measuring on this forum, lets keep the comments aimed at helping one another.

18th Jun 2010, 21:42

Quite true. The only issue is who has the correct info and what relevance that info is. If a poster has the right info should they keep quite so as not be be labelled a dick swinger. This is what causes the dissention, they both think they are right, but there is no need to get nasty about it.

Relevance of info? Who cares if there are 275 spots or 10. You want it you go for it. If you relly want it who cares what the competition is like you go for it (a smart person might think about how to make themselves more competitive to get a spot on FSP)

BTW if there are 275 spot scheduled why aren't 275 screened?

19th Jun 2010, 03:09
I don't mind if someone wants to contradict me, discussion is the purpose of the forums. Speculating as to whether I don't know what I'm talking about or telling me I'm wrong in a post whilst using terms like "might", "probably", and "in my humble opinion" is just a waste of time and doesn't help anybody either.

19th Jun 2010, 03:58
@ Mudrat

Just so its clear, I don't think you are one of the instigators of uninformative and malicious posts. I don't want to list names, but there are quite a few people bringing the quality of information on this thread down to an all time low. I just want people to be supportive. Opinions are bound to differ, but let us all just agree to disagree in those cases. We all want the same thing here, so lets help each other.

@ InTheWeeds
Concerntrate on the next event (interview, test, flight) work your arse off, if you are good enough you will get the spot. I found that worrying about things on pilot's course that are outside your "sphere of influence" takes up headspace...It's a hard thing to do, the stresses of scenarios outside your control do tend to take a hold of you. I can personally testify to that. But as you have aptly stated, focusing on the next event in your application allows you to forget about the worries outside of your influence.


19th Jun 2010, 05:40
I was told yesterday the Army is reviewing the height issue because they just aren't getting enough through.:ok:
Watch this space

20th Jun 2010, 00:50

Agree with your line of thought about being supportive and agree to slightly disagree.

If I see something that has been posted that is incorrect I will attempt to point the right direction. I do not (unless its become personel) state that the poster is wrong and therefore use words like might and probably so as not to offend. Being supportive is giving information that is correct but this will also be slightly different with people interpreting things differently and according to their experience.

Mudrat 02

Yes DEO becomes harder to get a spot latter in the year, as you stated, due to more ADFA courses but thats also going to be related to your competitiveness. The other way to look at it is DEO is easier to get on in the first half of the year due to only being DEO courses and you could say you get a double shot at it. ADFA finishes at the end of the year. If your dossier has just arrived at PSA you have the DEO courses coming up plus all the ones next year.

20th Jun 2010, 07:56

I'll be at Tamworth from 3/07 - 17/07. Anyone else going at that time?

20th Jun 2010, 11:52
I will also be at FSP from the 3rd of next month.

Exciting stuff!
(Pitty it'll screw up my Trail HSC)haha

20th Jun 2010, 13:48

If you don't mind me asking, what time in year 11/12 did you start your application process? And what were your grades when you started?

Thank you,

21st Jun 2010, 03:48

I started in late september last year from memory.
I believe i got like all B's except for one A in adv maths, but not really sure.
I go to a Selective high school, so i guess thats factored in.

Good luck!

21st Jun 2010, 09:08

Do you mind me asking which school?

A friend of mine who is going to Tamworth also goes selective so I was just curious.

PM if you want

21st Jun 2010, 09:30
I PMed you infraction

22nd Jun 2010, 14:29

I had my assessment day earlier today [22/06]. Phew!

It was a extremely long day, as I had to start at 8 AM and did not have a shot at the job interview until about 3.15 PM, by which time I was physically and mentally drained out having been sitting at the same spot for over almost 6 hours.

The psychological and the job interview were almost pretty similar, but they have very different ways to follow up your answers with further questions. I found them both to be very daunting and the job interview in particular wasn't a very enjoyable experience for me. I went in aware that my lack of leadership experience and my complete lack of any flying time in a cockpit would be held against me and that was the case, though I tried to explain the circumstances to them and I think thatís fair enough. Towards the end, it dint look like I was to be recommended. The feedback started off with the lack of the above mentioned experiences and my speed of speech was also brought up [I spoke too fast - account a little bit towards nervousness], since I come from an Asian background [my schooling was completed four years ago in India]. At this point I was completely shaken and almost lost it, when I heard "since the information was very well researched, and though there are negative points, there is just about enough positives for a recommendation, though just marginally".

So, at the end of it all I came out feeling like I have lost something rather than a feeling of having succeeded at the interviews. This is because, from the posts so far, I understand that the interview scores have the highest influence over the FSP selection. However, I would like to hear from others on what they think my chances at the FSP are? Besides, I wasnít classified as medical 1. I received a 3R pending a few reports from physicians which I hope shouldnít be much of an issue. The doctor present also informed me that there is a compulsory dental and eye appointment that has to be done for all aircrew applicants. When is this to be done i.e. is this post FSP? And once again my case of residency was brought up, and even though DFR did the same earlier and was told later on that I was cleared for the recruitment process, the interviewer mentioned me having to wait till I received my citizenship for an FSP date. Once again I am unsure whatís going to be the situation here.

I would like to sincerely thank every member who contributed to the thread and every person who PM'ed me with answers to my questions. I derived enormous support off them all and donít think I would have been able to get this far without it. I hope to be able to go on and prove to everyone that I have got the right attitude and motivation to get the job done. Please PM anytime.

23rd Jun 2010, 05:13
I received a 3R pending a few reports from physicians which I hope shouldnít be much of an issue. The doctor present also informed me that there is a compulsory dental and eye appointment that has to be done for all aircrew applicants. When is this to be done i.e. is this post FSP?I was also classified 3R after the physical, the squadron leader told me to get these issues rectified as soon as possible. The quicker you hand in whats needed, the more intent and desire you will show, not to mention the quicker your dossier will be sent to PSA. As for the compulsory dental and eye appointments, they will be completed post flight screening. As the RAAF do not anticipate poor results from these tests. Well done mate, and good luck for flight screening!

23rd Jun 2010, 22:13
Thank you for the reply mate. I was in a dilemma as to whether to spend some saved cash on a few 'flying experience' rides in the coming months to get a feel for it, and also demonstrate an enthusiasm for the position some day in the future at the OSB, or to save it should a contingency arise in the future in regards to my eyesight and a surgery required.

But, there is still the case of the residency being an obstacle towards proceeding to the FSP stage. Probably give it a couple of weeks, get the medicals sorted ASAP as you mentioned, and then see which direction things move, and then make a decision.

Thank you once again.

25th Jun 2010, 05:09
I had my YOU session yesterday. First and only preference was Pilot in RAAF.
Although I felt I did badly in the second test, especially the triangle, sin, cos and tan stuff (havnt done that for 8 years!) I was told I did extremely well and would easily be able to apply for my first preference.

However, because of my lack of inititive in Year 12 back in 2002, my English and Math scores are not up to par.
They want me to go to do a 12month TAFE course to get better marks. Unfortunately my current life situations mean I am unable to quit my job and start study full time.
It is a shame that they dont take in to account my 2 year diploma and 6 years of full time work :(

What kind of Math questions are there on the second session? I found the number sequences and word relation stuff easy.

25th Jun 2010, 07:31

The second test doesn't involve as much higher level maths as the second part of the YOU session test, but it is more difficult. It focusses on job-relevant skills such as speed/dist/time, maths approximations, gauges, coordination tests .ect

This thread has tons of info on those tests if you take the time to sift through it :ok:

25th Jun 2010, 08:25
Hi all,

I had my assessment day today and am glad to say was recommended for flight screening (pending clearing a few things first, i.e. classed 3R but luckily nothing major).

It was definitely a full-on day with my psych, med and defence force interview all happening in a short space of time, i.e., out by lunch (guess I got lucky as I have a friend who spent all day waiting).

Anyways, I'd like to thank those who have given me advice in this forum and in private messages, you have helped me immensely and I am grateful.

I'm a firm believer in teamwork and paying it forward so if anyone seeks assistance i'll do my best to impart what knowledge I can.

Good luck to all and hopefully see you in the skies soon.



25th Jun 2010, 12:24
Hi greentea,

I was just wondering if you or anyone else could answer one question for me.

I am going for my YOU session soon, does it contain speed/distance/time and fuel questions? I have heard yes and no's.


26th Jun 2010, 00:21
Hi Shonfield,

The YOU session does not seem to contain anything specific to your preferred choice. They test you to see what you can apply for.

The first test is number sequences and name relation, like Water is to Sea and Ground is to .....
They are all multiple choice questions. The second test is maths. I saw fractions, percentages, quadratics and trigonometry.

26th Jun 2010, 13:16
Just to let you know MudRat, you're not the oldest one in the running for RAAF pilot anymore, I'm 41 (42 next Jan) I know that doesn't leave much time for faffing about getting forms in and the like.

I've got my Spec testing this coming Tuesday (29th June). Here's hoping my run is somewhat smoother than allot of you seem to have had to PSA, if my process goes astray at any point I'm likely to be over the stipulated 43 maximum. Fortunately enough for me, I'm pretty certain there are no issues with my eyes (or any other organ) though I'm likely to be too tall for army.

I've put Navy pilot and Observer as my second and third choices, though fixed wing is my hope and dream. I know I'm way over the stated preferred age for RAAF, but I am still (though only barely) below the maximum allowable. I like to think they've put that maximum in for exactly the type of candidate I am, I'll just have to prove that at every stage in the process.

Thanks for all the inspiration in this gargantuan thread. It's shown me even with my potential difficulty with the age issue, every problem can be mastered with persistence and self belief.


29th Jun 2010, 12:47
Well folks, I had my spec testing today... I'm a band 2 pass. I guess that's ok for someone who did his last exam over 20 years ago and wasn't brought up on a steady diet of X-box, but I was hoping for better from myself.

I'll just have to wow them at the assessment day next month.

29th Jun 2010, 21:43
You'll be right mate.:ok:

1st Jul 2010, 01:28
Thanks CJ, I know I will, I'm well prepared for my Assessment day (27th July) and getting even more so as time goes by.

Jimmy Recard
1st Jul 2010, 01:47
Hi Guys,

Just finished reading this thread (only took about three days ;)) and thought I would post my experience of the application process so far. Iím applying for DEO RAAF or RAN pilot (originally Army as well but Iím 191cm tall so was of course notified that Iím now above the maximum sitting height). Like a few here my file has been sent off to PSA in the last few weeks so will hopefully get a call for one of the August/October courses. Interesting to see quite a few older guys on here going through the application process; Iím 27 in August and thought I would be one of the older applicants, but now Iím feeling quite sprightly!

My experience with DFR sounds pretty similar to many here and the best advice I can give to others applying is the same as BlackBird a few pages back. Be proactive about your application; keep calling/emailing them to find out whatís happening etc. I originally applied September 2009 and if I hadnít been in constant contact (particularly with the medical section) I would be months behind where I am now. At one point they told me I had provided all required information and that my file would be sent to PSA within a few days. I rang a month or so later and they told me they were still waiting for me to supply information regarding an issue that had not been mentioned for months. This sort of thing has been commonplace throughout my application process.

In relation to the initial aptitude testing and interviews just about everything you need to know is in this thread somewhere. One thing Iíve seen mentioned that applied to me Ė make sure you brush up on your high school (and I mean down to Year 10 level) maths. I have done advanced maths at uni and some pretty heavy calculus etc. and I couldnít remember SOH-CAH-TOA because I havenít done any trig for nearly 10 years.

Iíve got a couple of flying lessons booked for this weekend and looking to do maybe between 5-10 hours prior to Flight Screening. I know this has been discussed previously but just wondering what others think of getting some lessons / how many hours they have (or had) etc., especially those who have just been to FSP or looking to go soon. It seems like a good idea to me to have at least some command of the controls before going to Tamworth even though the flying component is scored on learning ability. My uncle is an ex-Army pilot and he suggested I not have too many lessons as ďthere is only one way to fly in the military and that is their wayĒ, so i figure 5-10 might be about right. Anyway it will be the first time Iíve flown anything so really looking forward to it!

Apologies for the essayÖ Would love to hear if anyone gets into the upcoming DEO FSP courses and Iíll do the same Ė Iím guessing we wonít hear anything for another few weeks though.



1st Jul 2010, 06:42
@ Jimmy Recard

Iíve got a couple of flying lessons booked for this weekend and looking to do maybe between 5-10 hours prior to Flight Screening.Initially, my thoughts mirrored this plan of attack (5-10 hours). But after careful deliberation I decided it to be more relevant to gain experience in an aircraft similar to the CT4. I've decided to book a few flights in a Decathlon in order to get accustomed with a control stick, rather then a control column. Also, I'll be able to experience some G-force maneuvers. I want to be put out of my comfort zone, so I'll have some sort of aerobatic exposure before giving flight screening a whirl.

Would love to hear if anyone gets into the upcoming DEO FSP courses and Iíll do the same Ė Iím guessing we wonít hear anything for another few weeks though.I received a letter in the post from PSA in Tamworth today confirming that they have received my dossier. They state in the letter that selections for the program are conducted approximately 2 weeks prior to the start of the course. The next course starts on the 21 Aug; so here's fingers crossed for you and I getting a call on the 7th of August! :O

1st Jul 2010, 07:51
I was told today the Army has increased the max sitting height to 95cm. I'm 95 so am lovin this news.:ok: Pity my file runs out before the next intake which I was told is March next year. :{

1st Jul 2010, 08:05
You've gotta love this system don't you? You'd think that in your situation, after having an offer, they'd just say, "thats ok mate, we'll extend the expiration date."....not likely haha, sucks mate, but awesome to hear you're in the running again. Congrats!

1st Jul 2010, 08:55
I guess I've just got to think of it as an opportunity to have a better OSB. When I look back at my OSB I was quite confident. Everybody thinks back and knows they could have "tweaked" it little to make it better but other than that, I came out thinking that was genuinely the most confident and relaxed I have felt in the whole selection process but I learned later that my board score wasn't that great so it just goes to show I need to work harder and give the next OSB if it arises the best shot I've got to make them want me. I'm learning hypnotherapy! :E

1st Jul 2010, 14:36
My 2 cents on flying experience at FSP:

I felt like my gliding hours worked in my favour due to the emphasis at FSP on attitude flying and it was therefore a pretty natural progression. I didn't think that too many hours would do me that much good seeing as they take into account experience and I wasn't worried about getting carried away and watching the scenery as some pointed out. However, perhaps the biggest advantage I found was how it helped with the mental processing. Being a bit more comfortable in the air gives you a bit more brain space to work with, especially when it comes time for the circuits. Rumour has it that pilots don't have much to spare in that department as it is :}

1st Jul 2010, 21:48
Gents any flying is good flying. Remeber its competitive just to get an FSP spot, so flying before your application gets to FSP is not a bad thing.

Jimmy Recard
2nd Jul 2010, 00:17
Cheers for the responses guys, sounds like there is some good advice in there - will hopefully be up as much as possible in the next few months. It gives me a little more motivation to be stuck in my office all day as well knowing that I need those sweet $ bills for flying on the weekend!

That's great news about the Army height requirements cj0203! It seems like that issue has affected the majority of people here. Will have to check my specs when I get home but I'm almost certain that I'm 96cm... :( Ah well, Army was my 2nd preference in any case - can't win them all.


That seems like the way to go - The guys at the flying school I'm going to said they would put me in a decathlon as well after a few hours in something a little tamer. I got my letter today as well but from what I've picked up on here it seems as if they let you know 3 or 4 weeks out which is a little more considerate for us full-timers :O - here's hoping we get a spot mate!

2nd Jul 2010, 05:05
Well i hope that having no flying experience will not impact on me too badly...Im leaving for Tamworth tomorrow!

2nd Jul 2010, 05:57
Rotor 11

No, you should be fine on that front, lots of guys go through FSP with no hours. Look at it this way, you won't have any habits(bad or good) to unlearn!

Enjoy, but pack your woolies- -3 in the mornings!!!

Some days I miss the CT4, others when it's F'ing freezing, maybe not.:ok:

2nd Jul 2010, 06:24
Good luck Rotor, at least it'll be warmer there in Tamworth than it is here!

vandelay industries
3rd Jul 2010, 20:37
Hi everyone, this is my first post on here so here it goes.

I'm currently applying for RAAF pilot (ADFA), and unsure as to whether you are obligated for any ROSO if you fail pilot's course, assuming you go through ADFA. I'm looking at the Bachelor of Aviation, the pilot specific degree, if that makes any difference.

I've heard that you can fail pilot's course based purely on officer qualities alone. I realise that you are an officer first and pilot second in the RAAF, but just seems a bit harsh to fail someone based on that alone. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, for those guys who've been to flight screening, does it give a real 'feel' of the typical air force environment. Being in year 12 with about 40 hours under my belt I know that I want to be a pilot, but still tossing up between the civil or military. I just want to understand the full nature of the miltary pilot's lifestyle (the pressures, secondary duties etc.) before I agree to anything (assuming I get that far).

And thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread, I've been plugging away through it and the info here is invaluble well better than anything I'd get @ DFR.

4th Jul 2010, 06:24
Hey Vandelay Industries,

I was in the exact same boat as you when I was in year 11. What i recommend you do is get in contact with a few people who have made it all the way through both worlds (civillian and military). Thats exactly what I did, and have been doing the last few years, and it has really helped me make that decision (which happens to be persuing the military). The insight of others is really helpful, and this thread is full of it, but remember at the end of the day its your decision and don't let people tell you what you should or shouldn't do.

What ever you decide to do stick to it 100%!

vandelay industries
4th Jul 2010, 07:27
Cheers Nick for your advice
I've spoken to plenty of guys in civil aviation and I'm pretty sure of sussed most of it out, but the military is a lot more insular and harder get to info on. I'll stick at it and shouldn't be too difficult to find at least one guy who has been through thre system.
Good luck in persuing your career

Polymer Fox
4th Jul 2010, 17:41
Just a word of caution to those encouraging those without hours to fly as much as possible. There is a delineation of around 20 hours as to whether you will be placed in the Basic or Advanced course at Flight screening. This could make a big difference when it comes to assessing your scores post flight and to whom you are in competition with.

To all of those reporting that they had received a letter from the PSA regarding their dossier, I too got my letter last week. I've actually had quite a decent experience with DFR. I started my application in April/May and although I've had to make a few enquiring calls when it came to some medical stuff I have found both the medical and DFR staff to be quite helpful and promt in returning calls/emails. There are always good eggs in any bunch and it is just a matter of asking the right questions to the right people.

4th Jul 2010, 20:23
The good thing about the advanced course is you get more time in the CAP 10!:ok: got to love those spins and aeros:}:yuk:

Captain Sand Dune
4th Jul 2010, 21:56
I've heard that you can fail pilot's course based purely on officer qualities alone. I realise that you are an officer first and pilot second in the RAAF, but just seems a bit harsh to fail someone based on that alone. Can anyone confirm this?
Yes, you can. However it rarely happens. Even more rarely if Daddy's a 2-star!:yuk::mad:
Good officer qualities isn't that hard really. Most of it is commonsense and discipline. Considering today's ADF pilots are flying multi-million dollar airframes in complex environments, is it really "harsh" to ask that they do as they're told? If you are motivated, OQs won't be a problem.
but still tossing up between the civil or military. Which brings me back to that word "motivation" again. If you were, there would be no decision. Go fly airlines mate.......

5th Jul 2010, 03:38
Oooo..do tell!

5th Jul 2010, 09:54
I loved the CAP-10, except the seat didn't agree with me too well. The aircraft spins well in the air and on the ground! :}

11th Jul 2010, 12:40
Captain Sand Dune,

Perhaps you shouldnít be so harsh on Vandelay. Someone who is still in high school, coming to this forum and asking people for information about a career that he is interested shouldnít be branded as lack of motivation.

He is showing maturity and commonsense by trying to make an informed decision, hell I was ďumming and ahhingĒ all the way up to signing on the dotted line and then some. Itís over a decade of your life, take the time to make the right decision.

And in terms of being kicked out for Officer Qualities, has happened in the past, is happening now and will continue to happen. Boys will be boys, just donít get caught. For another one of your questions, if you go to ADFA and subsequently fail pilots course you do generally still owe the time back from your degree, however with the excess of pilots at the moment in the RAAF it can happen that you may just leave, but that is here and now and is on a case by case basis, in 4 years when you would likely finish your degree and start pilotís course the RAAF could be screaming for people and in that case doubtful you would be able to leave, they shuffle you into another specialisation.

And lastly, flight screening doesnít really provide too much insight into military life, it does however give you a good understanding of how BFTS will run. There will be plenty of guys from all 3 services which can fill you in on what itís like to go to ADFA and be in the military.

Make up your own mind and take your time, after all itís a big decision.

13th Jul 2010, 15:24
CJ203 - Is that true in regards to the sitting height for Army Pilot being raised to 95cm? Did you hear this directly from DFR? It still says 92cm on their website :confused:

14th Jul 2010, 06:42
mate I was told in my medical assessment a couple of weeks ago that it's being reviewed to 95cm. Still helps me none!

14th Jul 2010, 08:02
Yes, I was told this by DFR medical and it was confirmed by PSA. Those like me who were made medically unfit should be getting letters confirming the new height change soon. :ok:

22nd Jul 2010, 13:44
hey all,
I stumbled upon pprune and this thread a few months ago and what a goldmine it has been. I am like many others here and am partway through the recruiting process for DEO pilot RAAF, with my assessment day being the 3rd of August. I can sympathise with others who have been through the medical appeal process, as it was 8 months between the YOU session and successfully appealing the class 4 medical.

Was just wondering if anyone had any insights for the assessment day apart from the dfr line of "there will be a medical, a phsychological interview, and an interview in front of a board.be prepared" have heard hints of an essay or writing task... ?

I have been studying up on the ins and outs of the raaf, force elements, wings, sqn's, a/c types & capabilities, leaders, ranks, bases, the training path, career progression, secondary duties, recent combat operations of ADF in general etc. also reading up on the notes given by dfr and preparing answers to expected questions "what if you fail pilots course what will you do?, what leadership qualities do you have/ examples. just trying to have all bases covered.

23rd Jul 2010, 00:23
Hi aus111c! Well done on passing the spec testing, I have heard a lot of people saying it's one of the hardest things during the recruitment process. As to your question about the essay: I had to write an essay first thing on my assessment day and the questions asked were 'why do you want to be a pilot, list some leadership positions held, what are your strenghts and weaknesses'. The questions are pretty much straight forward but what I found tricky was to write it all down during the timeframe given (if I remember correctly it was about 10 mins).
So just make sure you focus on your key points and keep it relevant! :) Hope this helps and good luck for the 3rd of August!!!:ok:



24th Jul 2010, 08:08
Thankyou LaRoux.
The spec testing was difficult, as I didnt know the specifics of the testing, but I enjoyed it, and was glad to pass as I thought I hadnt done too well in some aspects. I had a simple approach when they were testing motor skills with the joysticks and they changed the orientation of the screen, i just turned my head to suit it, would have looked strange but it worked. :).
Thanks for the info on assessment day, im trying to be as prepared as I possibly can, I want to really impress them.

28th Jul 2010, 07:04
Hey Sashisruski (http://www.pprune.org/members/333922-sashisruski)

Goodluck first of all.

1. I hope it wouldn't be silly as thats what im planning to do, currently doing Ba Music, and I will dropout the moment I am accepted into the RAAF.

2. Im not an expert but from reading here and elsewhere if you have above 20 hours going into FSP you are judged differently to someone who has 20hrs or less. however ADFBFTS and 2FTS do not take this into account.

hope that helps.

Jimmy Recard
29th Jul 2010, 00:44
Hiya Sashisruski,

I'm going for DEO pilot but will try to answer your questions in any case. I'm still in the application process as well so I'm not an expert - feel free to disregard my advice!

1. It's really up to you as to whether you want to pay to undertake the first part of a uni course that you would essentially repeat were you to get into ADFA. Personally I would suggest that ADFA is the better option rather than an external degree if you really want to be an ADF pilot. You will be exposed to the military lifestyle, be paid to study instead of accumulating a big HELP debt (like myself), meet many other aspiring young ADF officers etc. The alternative is to undertake an external degree like what I did; this allows more flexibility, ability to travel overseas, etc. I think this was probably the best option for me as I don't think I was ready to go to ADFA straight out of high school. I now have that extra bit of life experience that I wouldn't have accumulated otherwise - but we'll see if that flies at OSB if I get a flight screening spot! :} Another option could be to work to fund flying time while you wait for your ADFA application to be processed?

2. Once you are on Pilots' Course your prior education should not be taken into account. There will be students there who have no tertiary education whatsoever whilst others might have PhDs in astrophysics - as far as I'm aware the course is the same for everyone. Obviously your AvTech degree will give you a bit of an advantage over others initially - my degree is in economics for example so I doubt whether that's going to help me much in the cockpit.

Hope this helps a little - good luck with it all mate,


1st Aug 2010, 23:16
Hey guys I am officially reviving this forum: just got off the phone with PSA and I am chuffed to say I am in for the 21st of August!! :) so make sure you keep an eye on that phone today... ;)

2nd Aug 2010, 09:09
Good luck in August LaRoux.

I got an "NR3" on my assessment day. Apparently I was too confident... among other things. Got a wrinkle with a health issue from 1977 that's holding things up for now as well.

Hope to have things resolved before I hit the magic 43 years old. Nothing like having an 18 month time limit for incentive!

2nd Aug 2010, 11:20
LaRoux, good stuff.

Anyone here know when the next batch of offers from the RAAF for ADFA are coming out?

I've never watched the post box so intensely before. Still more entertaining than whats been on TV.

2nd Aug 2010, 11:27
They should have already come out for adfa? I got mine like 2-3weeks ago.

The next batch arent until after the next school holidays.

Polymer Fox
2nd Aug 2010, 14:54
Congrats LaRoux.

Looks like I will be seeing you up in Tamworth. I'm starting my course on the 28th. I actually missed the call on Friday and then tracked down the missed call number. There was a raft of expletives after I found out who the caller was. All sorted out now though :ok:

Jimmy Recard
3rd Aug 2010, 04:51
Congrats LaRoux and PF! My phone has stayed stubbornly silent the last few days so it looks like I might be waiting to see if I get a spot in October...

Good luck guys - leave nothing on the park! :ok:

3rd Aug 2010, 04:51
Cheers everyone!! :):) I am over the moon as you can imagine... Polymer Fox I'll see you in Tamworth! :ok:

3rd Aug 2010, 05:19
Good luck LaRoux and Polymer Fox!

AlexanderB, I've heard the next DEO are probably going to be in November, but it won't stop me watching the letterbox in the meantime ;)

3rd Aug 2010, 07:22
thankfully I was recommended for flight screening today, massive relief. Now the medicals and the waiting by the phone begins.....

3rd Aug 2010, 07:43
Hey guys,

I had my assessment day last tuesday and i was told to come back in 1 year's time because they wanted to see more "motivation" even though i scored a "band 1" in the pilot testing which the defence recruiter told me only 1-2 people a year get that high. :ugh: Although he said i wasn't far off being accepted, mainly a lack of flying related activities on my resume held me back. :rolleyes:

I was wondering what sort of things did you guys that made it to FSP have on your resume?

Did you have gliding experience?
Did you have any experience in trial flights?
What leadership or officer qualities did you have to show?
How exactly did you show determination/burning desire to be a pilot?this would really help a lot :ok:

3rd Aug 2010, 14:27

I had a notch under each of those points you mentioned and a few extras, including a previously unsuccessful attempt at the ADF pilot selection process!

I'm not qualified to judge what it takes to get through that interview, so I'll say this: I think all of the above helped me to some degree (I have no idea how much), but showing determination by coming back after taking the failure as an opportunity to improve myself was the difference I felt. Having said that, I'm post FSP/OSB and just waiting for a call, so I'm not "in" yet. ;)

Best of luck!

4th Aug 2010, 00:26
Good to hear people are snapping up places at FSP. I hope to join you soon.

I just got off the phone with my case manager out at Parramatta and i'm all booked in for an assesment day on the 16/8. Having being recommended previously (mind you for applying for ADFA entry pilot as opposed to DEO) i'm feeling confident this time round and i hope to bring you good news that evening. That said there will be lots of study done in the next 12 days.

A question, first time round i was placed in medical class 3R due to a few issues which were then resolved, however now, being greater than 12 months the medical has expired, does anyone know if the doctors and specialists statements clearing me medically back then are still valid for this time round? Especially considering that they are not reoccuring issues and mostly from my early childhood.



4th Aug 2010, 10:18
Well i believe having not held many leadership positions in my past did partially effect the outcome at least.:( Although i studied heavily on all topics regarding the RAAF including extra things like what leadership is, what makes a good leader, role of an officer etc. My interview went quite well besides having nothing to show i loved planes, i had an answer for his every questions, and quite good answers too :O

I've been reading every single page of this 70+ page thread over the last few days copying to word every useful hint and link that will help me for next time. Congratulations on getting as far as possible, its now just up to them to call and enlist you :D You can bet 1000000% i will have things for each of those points next July when i go back there for assessment day again.:}

Overall, recruiter did also say i was a little young too, especially only just turning 18 (compared to most guys he said were 19/20). At the time he told me to come back i was quite devastated (almost broke down) :sad: , but i am glad he did now because if he had let me through i would have had to face the OSB with a ****ty resume with no leadership experiences and the recruiter told me that even if i was the best pilot in the world and scored perfect at FSP the OSB wouldn't care as they would "think" i have no officer potential which i DO, but have nothing to prove it :mad: so i would have got knocked back anyway. Now i will do everything i can to show off my qualities (especially leadership), i believe that by next July i will be so prepared that i really don't see how i won't make it into FSP :cool: Especially since i almost did this time (so he said) with nothing special to show (in writing).:8

Well i was classed as 3R too i think, everyone on assessment day will get 3R, 3T or 3M i think (not sure exactly) :oh: but i believe unless those medical conditions you had or symptoms are recurring there's no reason why you wouldn't pass the medical now. They might ask you about them to see how its going with them, but if they are not recurring like you say there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Thanks guys.

4th Aug 2010, 10:24
Oh btw on assessment day you cannot get above class 3 (e.g. to get to class 1) you need to have further tests in detail (eyes, ears, dental, blood etc) The class most of us got put in was one of the class 3 groups which means we are on the way to class 1 pending these further tests and/or and other medical issues are completed or resolved.

Also why class 3? I don't know why that number, but i do know that class 2 is something totally unrelated to pilots (medical guy told me i just can't remember the name), they jump from class 3 to 1.

Polymer Fox
4th Aug 2010, 20:45
BlackPrince77, don't take the non-recommendation too hard because not everyone gets through on the first go. Take it as an opportunity to improve on all of the areas that you think you might be deficient. You have to remember that you only get one shot at FSP but you get three shots when it comes to the testing process prior to FSP. It will be much better for you when you can blitz your way through the testing process and defense interview and then when you get to the OSB you will much more confident in yourself and your personal and professional qualities.

I was initially knocked back when I first attempted the testing process and I was only 18 at the time. I'm in my mid 20s now and when I think back to myself when I was 18 I can fully understand why I didn't get through. I was very confident in myself but I really did lack the life experience, flying experience and demonstrative leadership. I'm not saying that you necessarily are deficient in those areas but you want to be the best candidate you can be when it comes to the OSB. So a knock back now might not seem the best but when you come to the stage you were at again and go further you will be personally better for it and also better for the RAAF on the other side.

Thanks for the well-wishes everyone. I'm off to go and bust a few aerobatic moves this morning to get myself ready for FSP. It is a stunningly beautiful CAVOK morning and I can't wait to get out there.

Jimmy Recard
5th Aug 2010, 00:37
Sounds awesome PF! I did my first aerobatic flight last Sunday and absolutely loved it - didn't quite have a yack when I got back down which was nice... :yuk: Can't wait to get back up there again this weekend and have another crack.

I have a follow up question to one I asked a few weeks ago about flying experience before FSP. I have about 10 hours at the moment and understand that once I go past 20 or so I will have to complete the advanced course. Currently doing 4/5 hours per fortnight (and spending every cent I'm earning) which means I will be well and truly over that by the earliest I can get a spot in October. Despite this I have taken InTheWeeds advice to heart and think that as much flying as I can get is the best approach and haven't been too concerned about the basic/advanced stuff. Plus I'm absolutely loving the flying so don't want to cut back just to be under some mark to make it "easier" at FSP. I've been flying tail draggers as well so I'm not too worried about the CAP 10... or should I be? ;)

Haha I think I've just answered my own question but anyone think differently to the above?

Also congrats aus111c for passing your Assessment day - hopefully see you at FSP sometime soon!


5th Aug 2010, 00:43

Jealous of the Aeros- what are you flying in?

Polymer Fox
5th Aug 2010, 02:19
Oldpinger, I'm flying the Robin 2160/Alpha A160 at the moment and thoroughly enjoying it. Hoping to progress to the Pitts Special before the end of the year if things with the RAAF don't take root straight away after FSP or at all.

JimmyR, are you progressing towards your first solo and your GFPT with your flying or are you just getting out there for the love of it? Even though you might be stuck in the Advanced course I would imagine that the assessors would take the into account the varied flight skills of those in that course. Plus you get more time in the CAP10!

5th Aug 2010, 02:23

Are you training out at Red Baron? If so, any comments on the school?
Thanks mate.

5th Aug 2010, 05:37

in my experience at FSP, i would not like to attempt the advanced FSP with anything less than 50 hours experience. The rate of learning that you have to show is double the basic course. So the best advice i can give you do some aerobatic training up to 19.9 hours. Then you will be able to put on your best display. I must stress that this is my opinion. On my particular course there was 2 advanced candidates, myself with 75 hours and other commercial pilot with 190 hours, I managed to get through and the other guy didnt. But with 30-40 hours experience, i feel you would be disadvantaged in the advanced group.


I was involved with the red barron cram course and i found it very beneficial. The guys there know there stuff (Matt is a ex FJ pilot). It is money well spent if your serious about performing well at FSP


Jimmy Recard
5th Aug 2010, 05:49
PF, to be honest I'm not really sure - I've basically been flying for the last month trying to get as much relevant experience in the lead up to the August FSP courses. I asked them to push me and show me as much as possible in a short space of time but now that I've missed this round I'll have to think about what I want to do. I've never really considered a career in aviation outside the ADF however I would consider it to be a waste of time and money to not at least pursue a PPL or the like if I'm going to do the hours. So I guess now that I have more time up my sleeve I'll keep flying and continue to prepare as best as possible for an invite to FSP, whilst at the same time working to fulfil the requirements of the path you're talking about.

That was my thinking too - I'm sure they will take into account the fact that I might have 30 hours compared to someone else doing the Advanced course that might have ten times that - as it's based on rate of learning I can't really see any issue. And yep, more time in the CAP 10 sounds fun! :O :yuk: I'm flying a Super Decathlon for aeros by the way. Would love to get up in a biplane at some point - my Dad's mate has a Pitts but apparently it's a fair handful to fly...

Hmmm just saw that last post Romper - nice work throwing a spanner in my master plan. :D Back to the drawing board... :ugh:

- Cheers by the way; always good to get advice from someone who has been there and done it themselves.

5th Aug 2010, 06:09
My apologies JR,

But i was in exactly the same position as you! I was at the GFPT stage and had to make the decision to fly heaps or stop! I was advised by a serving Military pilot that i should get at least 50 hours experience for the advanced course or stop flying now. I made a decision and kept flying as much as i could! It worked out for me. Either way mate I wish you luck!

Jimmy Recard
5th Aug 2010, 06:18
Hahahaha no worries - cheers for the info. Hmmm I'm not sure i can rack up 40+ hours in the next 2 months... plus no guarantees I'll get a spot anyway. Decisions decisions...

5th Aug 2010, 07:49
Cheers JimmyR, the support is appreciated.

Interesting to read how many hours people are accruing pre FSP, myself having only 1 hour up there (2x TIF's - loved it). I dont think it is worthwhile or economically responsible of me personally to accrue a significant amount (ie 10 - 19.9) of flight hours when they are essentially looking for your ability to learn and uptake of information. I realise that lessons show motivation so I am planning to book in a few more in the coming months but most likely <4 this year, not due to willingness but more cost. I hope it doesnt disadvantage me, anyone else in my situation out there? My defence interviewer seemed to agree with my reasons.

5th Aug 2010, 08:13
I believe (and my recruiter agreed with me) that if you really think you need airborne experience prior to FSP, you should take up gliding as that is raw flying at it's best. Just you flying more by instinct, not following procedures (developing bad habits). Getting a feel for the unique gliding experience and handling while getting accustomed to the airborne environment and to top it off it's much cheaper than powered flight. :D

5th Aug 2010, 10:05
I had 8 hours prior to FSP (4hrs in a CT-4E) and felt in was invaluable in terms of familiarity with the airborne environment leaving more head space to deal with the challenges you are thrown. Just my opinion but I would deter anyone from stopping at 19.9 hrs as it would seem to show that you are, in a way, taking the "easy" option of getting onto the basic course, something they might slam you with at the OSB. They are quite similar anyway, just a couple more sorties in the CAP-10 for the advanced mob but in saying that, they do expect more of you. Depending on who's on the course, I've heard of people being placed in the advanced course with only 15 or so hrs. :E

5th Aug 2010, 12:23
Does anybody know for sure if gliding hours are counted for basic/advanced FSP?

Also, if I were to be knocked back the first time (straight out of school) and joined the reserves, anyone know how to process changes?


5th Aug 2010, 20:58
I was in the same situation in May having missed the FSP then and having to wait more than 2 months at least until the next ones. I also had about 10h flying experience and decided not to spend any more on flying until my FSP would come up. Instead, I took up a part time job and studied towards PPL theory... it's kept me busy and at the same time I felt that I wasn't wasting my time...

5th Aug 2010, 22:57

Yes all flying hours are taken into account.


To be placed on an advanced course you need to have +20 hours and that is worked out some how reference currency. So if you have 30 hours but that was 5 years ago you may still be a basic.

6th Aug 2010, 10:19
Hey guys I'm thinking of joining the police force to be an officer while I am waiting for my next assessment day to come round. I believe that would be very impressive and would not be too hard to get into, plus I can see all the benefits of being a police officer! :E

I guess there are not many applicants who do this so it would help make me stand out more so I have more chance at OSB. :p

What do you guys think?

6th Aug 2010, 10:24
BP77-So not dedicated to a career in the ADF then? What happens if you get accepted and then knock them back after an offer from the ADF. Hardly a demonstration that you are singleminded for a career in the ADF where someone (taxpayer) is going to fork out millions to train you.

Just a suggestion......

Or maybe I'm just getting old....:hmm:

6th Aug 2010, 11:29
Yes I see what you both are saying.:\ Being a pilot in the RAAF is much more appealing to me than being a police officer. This was just an idea of mine though, some people decide to join sporting clubs to show leadership qualities or do volunteer work which shows humility etc. Joining the police force will show maturity and definately leadership/officer skills. If worse comes to worse I would still have a reliable and great job as an police officer which I would be happily pursuing for many years to come!

Talking about being single-minded for a career in the RAAF, my psychologist asked me why I was not studying at university this year instead of working part time and I told him that I am focused just on getting into the RAAF as much as I can and I didn't want any unnecessary distractions. He said it would have been a little better maybe to be studying my engineering course that I had deferred.:ooh:
I show him I am determined to be a pilot by concentrating totally on only that, becoming a pilot and he says I should take some of my attention away to something else? :rolleyes: I don't see the purpose of spending a few thousand dollars ($7000) studying this year to partially gain a degree which will help me attain a job I don't even want (aerospace engineer).

Anyway getting a bit off track here, of course I'm not thinking of joining the police force just to "have it on my resume" :p It's a job that is appealing to me, but not as appealing as being an officer, pilot in the RAAF! Both of which I am capable of.

Thanks guys

7th Aug 2010, 00:31
If your serious, read the whole thread, all the answers are here.

7th Aug 2010, 00:46

I'm not going to drop answers to questions that are answered throughout the thread, especially not when people like BP77 have gone through each page. If you're really that keen to spend the next 14 years as a RAAF pilot then motivating yourself to sift through this thread shouldn't be a big hurdle. Not saying you don't want the position, but get into it! :ok:

Polymer Fox
8th Aug 2010, 20:27

I guess the aircraft mix that I spoke of made it obvious where I have been doing my flying recently. I really only have good things to say about the flying school but if you want to ask me anything specific send me a PM.

9th Aug 2010, 07:01
I can also vouch for red baron, I went for a fly with Matt as well last year. That flight and the briefings taught me much. It opened my eyes up to what military aviation is about, atleast in part. I can only recommend it, and I intend to go back there when i have a flight screening date.



11th Aug 2010, 09:23
I have recently done:

YOU session (May 2010)
Pilot testing (June 2010)
Assessment Day (July 2010)

So if anyone has questions regarding those things then please ask away! I am more then happy to help others in their ADF quests. :cool:

Obviously I did these fairly recently so my information will be quite accurate.

15th Aug 2010, 01:30
PM sent BlackPrince, thanks for any help!

15th Aug 2010, 03:41
Thanks fellas, that's good to know. I'm considering starting a CPL with them when I can get some cash together. I went down there a few weeks ago but they were in the process of putting together new pricing. Anyway, good to hear some positive feedback. If I have any specifics I'll PM you.

BlackPrince: as for the police query. I see where you're coming from but don't do it unless you want to be a police officer. If you want to fly, fly - military or otherwise. If you want to show leadership, volunteer for the SES or RFS. Also, uni might not be a bad option. You'd be surprised how much you'll mature and the lessons you'll learn. I went to uni at 18 and looking back, I'm glad I put my ADF application on hold.

15th Aug 2010, 09:04
Firstly, thanks to all whom have contributed to this thread. Very informative.

I have my YOU session this Friday, ultimately wishing for appointment as ATCO.

I have...
identified my reasons for wishing to join the ADF
brushed up on my maths
practiced as many online IQ/aptitude tests as possible
learnt RAAF structure, bases, technology, ADF operations etc.
a full understanding of desired role.

I understand much of this will need to be tip top should I get further (Assessment/OSB) but if anyone can suggest anything else to work on over the coming days it would be much appreciated.

Thanks again for a great thread.

16th Aug 2010, 08:01
Suit up. Will make it look like you really are serious/ want the job more than the guys wearing cargo pants and an AC/DC shirt.

YOU session is a walk in the park compared to AT or Assessment Day. Still requires effort although.

Best of Luck.

17th Aug 2010, 01:30
Cheers Aus111c!

Yes, I was going to sport the suit, but thank you all the same.

Any idea what the additional testing may involve for ATCO? I believe more specific maths (particularly trig) and coordination exercises... well at least I think that's the case reading back over Tony360's replies.

17th Aug 2010, 05:30

I was under the impression that the specialist testing day is the same for ATCO as it is ADF Pilots, the only difference being the pass/fail mark for the tests. Ie. the first time I went (I was unsuccessful this time) there was an ATCO guy going for that position and was in the tests with the Pilot applicants like myself. I failed the gauge reading test for Pilot but was notified afterwards that I was still eligible for ATCO based on my scores if I wanted to pursue it.

18th Aug 2010, 02:11
Regular Joe,

Had my spec testing for pilot this monday just gone. Within our group of 15 there were 2 that had ATCO as their first preference. I did my testing in Brisbane, so I cannot vouch for other recruitment centres but the ATCO's did mostly the same tests as us, apart from the instrument reading tests, visual interpretations and the maths reasoning. Expect to encounter a test on maths estimating, and a fairly heavy test involving hand-eye co-ordination and multi-tasking. From the sounds of it you sound prepared and ready to smash it. Good luck.
-Might also add that the above information is for the spec testing - the step after the YOU session.


Good to see you still kickin' mate. I haven't been on PPrune for quite some time, and have just spent the last few days reading this thread in its entirety. I know this is severely delayed but congratulations on making it so far - and thanks for your info in return regarding the spec testing - made it through successfully, so moving towards my assessment day now. Hopefully get it locked in for mid-september.
Good luck with it all, and keep us posted on your progress...hopefully you get that call soon! Just had a friend who got an offer from the RAAF - he's off to OTS soon, lucky bastard.:)

18th Aug 2010, 07:15
G'day again,

I'm happy to say that I was recommended from my assessment day on Monday, as Soon as I organise a few documents my file will be on it's way to Tamworth. I must say I wasn't particularly happy with how my defence interview was run. Any way, not to dwell, I was recommended, I have plenty of things to work on if I'm to succeed at fsp.

Anyway if anyone has any questions about assessment day feel free to shoot them off.

18th Aug 2010, 09:50
Thanks Aus11c, MudRat and Zeddy for your posts!

Also thanks to BlackPrince for your PM, very helpful indeed :ok:

18th Aug 2010, 11:33
Sorry about the delayed response, I was having too much fun at school...:bored:

Rotor11, I only had my OSB these holidays past so I wasn't exactly expecting an offer that fast. I'm still watching the mailbox.. that mailman just gets more and more suspicious. I got a letter today from PSA telling me that my dossier had been recieved at Tamworth, so I'll keep my fingers crossed for these holidays and start watching my phone at the same time. Real ninja like :suspect:

I saw a post a page or so back about gliding hours counting towards FSP courses. From what I've heard from various sources gliding hours won't put you in the advanced stream. After all, you could have tonnes of hours on gliders but might not have a clue what that big noisy thing in the front of your CT4 does or even how to operate it.

Good luck to everyone else, its good to see things happening for people.

19th Aug 2010, 02:46
Gliding hours most definitely count!!

Best preparation for doing well at FSP ...... 8 hours good gliding, no more.

Glider jocks know attitudes, balance and trim. That's what get's a good score on FSP, plus a proper personal demeanour and a bl^&*y good lookout.

How do I know? Used to test candidates on the programme!

19th Aug 2010, 02:58

Good to hear spec test worked out for you, its an easy test to muck up if you don't prep for it I reckon. Good luck with assessment day, unless things change I've heard that the next intake isn't until after the Oct FSP courses are done so you should be right with either slot.

Just out of interest, when did your mate get an offer? I was under the impression the last intake of guys started OTS a bit sooner, but I could be wrong.

19th Aug 2010, 04:26
PSA have told me a couple of times that the next RAAF Deo intake is in November, coupla weeks after my file runs out! :ugh:

19th Aug 2010, 05:01

That comes as a bit of a suprise, but does make sense. Would 25 hours on gliders put someone into the advanced stream? I've got no prior experience in powered aircraft so I'll admit to being a little curious of what the advanced stream at FSP would expect of a candidate in terms of ability, or is it still assesed on potential for training much the same as the basic program?


19th Aug 2010, 05:02
Gday all,

I recently spoke to FLT LT Dawkins from PSA, who stated that the next round of DEO offers are mid november, so im assuming that zeddy's mate may had received a ADFA offer as there was just recently a round of those.

Good luck to everyone sitting in the DEO pool and lets hope that november is kind to us!


19th Aug 2010, 05:16
Depending upon when the flying was conducted (ie how recent you are) anything over 10 hours of flying places you in the advanced category - not the end of the world, because FSP assesses 'trainability' and not whether or not you can fly a CT-4B well.

Simply put, you will be flown to assess your airmanship, repsonse to instruction and retention, and overall suitablity for pilot training. Subsequently you will be assessed for officer qualities by a panel of ADF officers.

It's not how good you are, it's how much better you got over the screening activity that demonstrates suitability.

Now your average fixed wing powered pilot with a few hours behind him from a civvie school is almost always:

1. unable to fly in balance (C152 and the like have a very narrow range of power requiring almost no rudder input in comparison to heavy old CT4),

2. poor at setting attitudes, preferring to performance fly the thing (which reduces accuracy, is obvious to detect and p@#$%s QFIs off)

3. does cursory, ineffective or non-existent lookouts.

So if you want to impress: gliding teaches you good attitude flying skills, balanced flight and (hopefully) the instructor was a lookout nazi!

Good luck.

19th Aug 2010, 05:38
Thanks for the info and for clearing that up,

I had an Ex-RNZAF Vampire pilot who came to the RAAF as an instructor on the Winjeel. He had this weird fanaticism with rolling on a point...

Any idea if the OSB on FSP is the same as the one I've had for ACO?

19th Aug 2010, 10:50

May I ask (without being too personal) what made your assessment day not run to plan?

Mudrat and romper,

By soon I meant saturday the 14th of August, just passed. Sorry my head was a bit muddled after all that studying for spec testing:\ He was DEO. Had to wait 6 months though after getting eye surgery (this time last year). Glad it's all worked out for him. He had 250hours with his CPL - managed to "unhinge" his civvy ways though and accept the military way.
Good luck to you all sitting in the pool right now..! Patience really is a virtue isn't it..:ugh:


Been following your story regarding the changes in minimum sitting height. Real sorry to hear about that - had a few fellows with me at spec testing on monday who have their hearts set on Army - but were around 96cm on a good day. Such a shame. Hope it works out for you mate. You should be given consideration as the height change was brought in after you had completed FSP, did it not?

20th Aug 2010, 00:20
Yeah lesnak, I'm post OSB/FSP but I got that call this week too. I was told its a bit of a tour of RAAF assets including the Rhino.

20th Aug 2010, 04:54
As far as I'm aware, I've had no considerations regarding the height change. We are not kept in the pool any longer than 12 months. And yes, the height was changed right when the first offers came out which was from memory around mid Feb. I finished FSP in Nov '09. What cheeses me off is that there has been two Army intakes since I've been in the pool and I was made medically unfit for both of them due to the sitting height change. Now that they have changed it again and I have been remeasured at 95cm(the max now), there is now not another intake until March, my file runs out in November. It hurts big time. To do assessment, medicals and OSB Tamworth again before the March intake is going to be another hurdle I imagine, things will have to run very smoothly. All I can do is keep believing and try not to grow 1mm.

20th Aug 2010, 05:36
G'day Chinook,

Times have changed. The basic/advanced split is based on 20 hrs and currency. Gliding and ultra light have a different weighting as well.

20th Aug 2010, 22:16
I noticed that my ~10 hours in gliders and several powered hours added up to all powered on their noticeboard at BAe.

If you had over 20 glider hours, you'd probably be in advanced. I don't think its that rigid though, ie. if you've got over 20 but haven't flown in a long time there's some room to go basic (or at least that's what I gathered from a guy that was in the same situation on our course).

I don't know for sure though! ;)

22nd Aug 2010, 07:27

Keep thinking positively mate (I know it must be extremely tough though) - miracles do happen. I know your heart is set on rotary, and Navy are only taking in a few DE's a year, but are you allowed to change your preferences post FSP? I assume not though..:confused:
I attended that VIP event at Brisbane airport yesterday (anyone else go?) and I spent some time checking out the a109 augusta - pretty neat for a rotary. Pretty hard to go past the super hornet though, especially when FLTLT "Burger" from 6 SQN was commenting that "we have too many hornets and not enough pilots yet!" Saw quite a few ears perk up at that:ok:

22nd Aug 2010, 08:43

I'm also a post-assessment day candidate eagerly awaiting the possibility of the October FSP. On the question of glider hours, I was told by my recruiting officer that 1 gliding hour = 0.75 powered flight hours and that gliding was encouraged, not quite as heavily as Chinook (who has some pretty interesting points) but yes it is preferred, most likely due to the old 'bad habits' argument. Also, I've heard of people with 15 or so hours all up undertaking the advanced course based on the fact that the majority of those hours were in the 2 months prior.

Just a quick question to anyone in a position to answer, I was recommended at my OSB last week for Aerospace Engineer through the undergraduate scheme. Is there a chance of receiving an offer before I attend a FSP - Engineer was my 3rd preference, pilot being 1st. And if so, would accepting that offer take me out of the running for FSP and pilot all together?

Sorry about the long post, just wanted to check before I call up my recruiting officer again.


23rd Aug 2010, 03:09
Cheers for the good wishes Zeddy and yes I was able to change my preferences post FSP/ height change but frustratingly my file expires about a week or two before the next offers from Raaf or any service for that matter. :(

23rd Aug 2010, 11:43
So cj0203, does that mean that most likely your file will be returned to DFR? From there would you start from scratch again? Anyone else keen to elaborate?

---- unrelated question,

Has anyone considered joining the RAAF reserves? There are a few (approx. 10) jobs in the RAAF reserves that include officer roles and/or responsibilities which require you to do OTS prior. Although the recruiting process is the same as any other job in the RAA by which I mean you have to progress through the YOU session and assessment day. You obviously wouldn't do FSP as you cannot become a reserve pilot. I have to wait until July next year to sit my assessment day again for RAAF DEO, but if I apply for the reserves could I start a seperate recruiting process or will I have to wait until July next year when I have my assessment day again and add reserves as another job option? (I will contact DFR regarding this issue to clarify and receive reliable information, but I'd like to hear what you guys think anyway?)


23rd Aug 2010, 23:14
BP77 let us know what recruiting says about that, I have also considered joining the reserves.


23rd Aug 2010, 23:40
BP77, Yes my file will be returned to DFR. :mad: The spec testing is valid for 3 years so I will have to do assessment, medicals and OSB Tamworth again. As you know flight screening can only be done once but I was happy with my results there. Apparently I can do my medical again before my file runs out, as my medical expired in June.

25th Aug 2010, 23:22
Well guys, I had my YOU last week for ATCO. Must have done OK in my tests as was able to apply for pretty much any role, which I assume happens for most.

Was told Spec testing is in Sept, however got a call advising I'm ineligible to proceed until I become a citizen :ugh:(I'm a NZ citizen with Perm Residency). I knew this could be an issue as the DFR website did change its wording in that area a few months back.

I'm absolutely gutted, however only have to wait till June next year for citizenship. Hope ATCOs are still in need then!!

27th Aug 2010, 12:55
finally had the doc review and clear my med forms and now have had my file sent to PSA... can anyone give me an idea how long it took them before they got a response for Flight Screening?


28th Aug 2010, 07:41
G'day numbersguy,

The length of time varies due to your competitiveness and available FSP spots, but in my circumstance, it was 2 weeks between PSA receiving my file and getting the call. PSA gave me 3 weeks notice to attend FSP.


28th Aug 2010, 09:40
There are four more PSA programs for the year with the next starting on the 9th of October, romper is correct in saying they start notifying applicants three weeks before but I have heard of people only getting two weeks notice if someone drops out or anything like that. Good luck and make sure you check the program dates on the PSA website and keep your phone close on the days three weeks before they start.

As you are a candidate that did quite well at flight screening, especially in the flying department, I was wondering what kind of flying preparation you did before heading down to Tamworth? Also, I'm assuming it's best to just prepare as much as possible for the board before heading down but is there anything else you wish you had done that would have helped? Any information would be greatly appreciated, feel free to PM if that's easier.

Thanks heaps

29th Aug 2010, 11:34
Hi guys,

Just wanting to know what kind of education people are getting throught with? I passed the YOU session test but they said becase I have a D in Year12 English and Math I cannot progress any further.
I was talking to someone the other night who had joined through ADFA and he said his mate got in direct entry even through he failed Year 12 completely.
Are there inconsistencies in the requirements? Ive worked full time for 8 years since I left school and halfway through my PPL but am told its not good enough yet some guy gets in with bad Year 12 scores?

30th Aug 2010, 02:24
Hi All,

Well I've just finished reading through all 77 pages of posts and can certainly say there is a wealth of information in this thread. Thanks to everyone who has posted their own experiences. The tips and information are certainly going to help equip me in my application process!

Just a bit of background on myself, I initially applied for a Pilot position when I was finishing year 12 back in 2001 and got through the initial stages including all my specialist medicals and being recommended etc prior to FSP. However my application halted at this point due to a couple of different things that were going on at the time.

My desire and passion to hopefully join the ADF as an officer and a pilot never waned and I am now back in the running having recently completed my YOU session and with a lot more life experience behind me.

I have my pilot spec testing coming up in about 3 weeks and am eagerly studying as well as scouring this thread for all the hints and tips I can find.

Some of the testing doesn't sound as though it has really changed a great deal since back in 2001, with the exception of now being computer based and the hand-eye coordination test also sounds like it's been updated.

From what I've read the maths components are made up of the following types of questions:

Mental Maths

Whilst I'm working on my speed, I should be fine with these and having read through the whole thread I think I'm pretty well equipped to study for the other portions of the test.

My main concern is really in regards to the more complex maths principles since I haven't used these in quite some time. Do these factor in to the tests much if at all? Any tips for revision of these principles?



30th Aug 2010, 03:02

You will need to meet the base level of education to be looked at. This chap that got in after failing year 12, did he do any other courses to make himself eligible.

30th Aug 2010, 05:45
Your going to have a hard time if you don't meet the minimum requirements, especially seeing as the highly competitive people would be getting 95+ in their HSC. That's not to say you shouldn't try.

Minimums: ADF Pilot Selection Agency: Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.airforce.gov.au/psa/education.aspx)

30th Aug 2010, 07:43
It is quite interesting how strict they are on this pre-requisite. When I applied, although I had completed 2.5 years of university level mathematics they were only interested as to whether or not I had achieved a band 3 in the HSC.

Not sure about your direct entry mate as I'd be quite surprised if someone managed to get through without the proper education requirements. I'm also not sure if you can apply for a waiver or anything like that, what's most likely happened is they have completed an equivalent course at TAFE or a similar institution which I believe finestkind was alluding to.

Good luck with it though mate, let us know how it goes.


30th Aug 2010, 14:14
Thanks for the advice. I've been exploring all the options I have and it seems the only one is to do an equivalent level course at tafe. Only problem is that will take a whole year! I'll be 27 by then, at the top of the age bracket. I wish I could do the assessment day and prove my worth. I'm actually quite good at English and math, it's just I was a lazy kid at school :E

30th Aug 2010, 14:30
@ant1984 (http://www.pprune.org/members/336504-ant1984) I wouldn't be too concerned with not having done maths for a while, it'll all come back to you if you had a sound understanding of the fundamentals when you did it. I managed the tests even though I've not done any complex maths for over 20 years.

Do have a look at Maths Online - Free Maths Tuition For All Australian High School Students (http://www.mathsonline.com.au/) if you really want to revise, but I suspect you'll find more useful examples posted earlier in the thread. (So far back I can't even recall what pages they where on.)

Speed will be your greatest friend in the spec testing. Just don't let yourself get hung up on any one question, you can always come back to it.


ps: my medical wrinkles have been ironed out now... just got to wait for my 3 months to be up to sit the Def Interview again. Means I'll miss the October PSA spots. ?:-( Hurry up and wait... the unofficial military motto apparently.

31st Aug 2010, 05:24
@ DrDave - Thanks for the reassurance. The site you pointed out looks great for brushing up on some of the maths principles, so I'll definitely be checking that one out. I don't believe there is such a thing as too much preparation so long as you're not trying to cram it all in a small space of time, so I'll be studying as much as possible. I'll let you know how I go once I've sat the tests in a few weeks time.

In the meantime, if anyone else has any other hints or tips for the Pilot Spec testing that are not already covered in these forums it would be much appreciated.

31st Aug 2010, 08:38
Don't worry about age, a guy on my FSP course got Raaf offer and is currently at BFTS and he's 30. So don't sweat it. :ok:

31st Aug 2010, 08:56

There's some great advice on maths courses maybe 10/20 pages back. If you want it done ASAP try the Dr Steven Holding course. It's pricey but only takes a month and the ADF know about it. I did a course through CSU uni that was accepted after some convincing. It's part of their StudyLink courses, 'mathematics for calculus' from memory. It's cheap, and only takes a semester at uni, or less if you want to put the work in. It's via distance though, so does require literally teaching yourself everything up to basic calculus. Get DFR to approve a course before commencing it, and triple check with your case manager and their manager. It's your time and money and they can be pretty hopeless. Good luck!

1st Sep 2010, 01:21
I'm actually in the exact same position as you, I attempted to set up a visit to a RAAF base recently without much luck. Best thing is to talk to your case manager, they can usually give you a couple of good contacts. Even better would be to head to the Air show at RAAF Williamtown on the 18-19th of September, as far as I know there will be a fair few pilots in attendance on the day who are more than happy to speak to enthusiastic candidates.

Hope that helps

2nd Sep 2010, 00:56
BP and Kyll,

I'm fairly sure there are some skulking around this forum somewhere... maybe some specific questions? (and no I'm not one!)

2nd Sep 2010, 23:31
Ask and you shall receive. These questions aren't specifically geared towards FJ pilots but more so any ADF pilot (certainly including RAN QFI's - if I was to make an educated guess :)) as I would be ecstatic with an offer from any service.

- How much flying to you actually do, how does it differ from what you expected and does it affect your job satisfaction?
- What are the various secondary duties you undertake as a pilot and what do they involve?
- Does the officer side of the job not completely take effect as a junior officer? As far as I am aware in every case you are an officer before a IO/engineer/ACO/Air traffic controller etc. Is this the same for pilot or is it the only position where job>officer?
- What is the actual career progression like post wings? For example: for Hornet would the posting be 76/79 SQN -> 2OCU -> 3/77/75 SQN with 2-3 years at each stage?
- What are the toughest/most rewarding points in your career? Have you been on a flying tour of duty and if so, how was that experience?

Also, with regard to motivation I am quite keen to fully apply myself to any service and any aircraft, I would love to become a QFI and hopefully progress to a senior officer in the future. Now, would this approach get slammed for motivation as it doesn't entirely follow the 'I love FJ' script? I would certainly love to fly the JSF (when it eventually gets here) but, if I was a better asset to the RAAF in a Herc then I would definitely prefer to be doing that.

I apologise for how personal some of the questions are, any insight would be greatly appreciated though. Feel free to PM


3rd Sep 2010, 00:22
Nice set of questions Kyll, very much like a set I've been formulating myself. I'd like to add as an addendum (because I want to know and because it came up in my first Defence Interview):

How much of your time is taken up "managing" enlisted personnel and/or other subordinates?

My impression from having spoken to a few pilots was "not much". When I asked this question directly of a FLTLT from 34 Squadron his reaction was puzzlement. He said he didn't have any ground personnel directly under his command, only a couple of pilots. This however was not what my interviewer wanted to hear.

Is there a different command structure in different squadrons?
Do the ground personnel have their own chains of command?
Is perhaps one of the secondary duties that of "Welfare Officer" whose job it would be to tend to the needs of the base personnel whatever they may be, or would this be better handled by the chaplain?


3rd Sep 2010, 01:25
Well I pm'ed about 10 different guys on this forum a while ago who I noted down on a piece of paper while reading through this whole thread. They specifically wrote they were pilots flying Herc's or another aircraft in their responses while some were just in the RAAF for 30 years or more. Also some were FSP instructors! so there's definitely an abundance of knowledge on this thread.

Unfortunately I got minimal response. :rolleyes:

3rd Sep 2010, 03:41
BP, obviously lots of busy pilots out there..... and yes I may have flown a helicopter or two:E

Dr Dave-In answer to questions about people management etc, It differs from service to service and job to job within that. I'm not surprised that the 34 sqn guy was puzzled. The RAAF tend to have their maintenance personnel 'looked after' by their engineer officers rather than aircrew.
In the Navy, as the FAA is an offshoot of the fleet, the divisional system still applies. In other words as junior aircrew you can be given a division of sailors from the sqn to look after with the assistance of a Chief or PO. This would be the non-maintenance things, ie promotion reports, courses, court appearances:ooh: etc etc.

This, in addition to other jobs would be a 'secondary' job in addition to learning to fly/operate your aircraft of choice.

Can't speak for Army, and I may indeed be wrong about RAAF, as it probably isn't all the same.

As for subordinates- when you reach the dizzying heights of SQNLDR or FLTLT you may be a Flt Cdr or deputy FltCdr then you'll have junior aircrew to look after.

Kyll, about the FJ or nothing argument- I think it's better to be honest about the more general nature of your motivation rather than get caught out at the board interview when as a 'committed' FJ candidate you can't answer questions :hmm: about your passion for fast jets.

5th Sep 2010, 10:48

1) The flying varies depending what aircraft. A young bloke who is fresh out of 20CU will get around 200 hours in the first year at an operational squadron. Once he (currently no female fast pilots) is C-CAT qualified, the amount of flying will increase.

2) Secondary duties can vary. Navigation officer is pretty common which is making sure all the charts and clearences are ready if your going to go overseas. Just generally making sure everything is organised.

3) When you say Junior Officer, what exactly do you mean? If you mean Pilot Officer or Flying Officer, then yes it does. Remember you are an officer in the RAAF who's job is a pilot.

4) Post wings it depends what aircraft your chosen for. Where you said 2-3 years at each stage is not correct at all. I knew a bloke who went by the callsign 'Tik' and was 22 while flying Hornets out of the 75th. Fast jet training in total takes around 4 years to complete, so you can work it out from there. The timeline for this training is 79 (Pearce)-76(Willy)-2OCU(Willy)- Operational SQN.

Although on the surface each squadron appears to have the same roll, they differ slightly. No 3's main goal is total air dominace with a secondary duty of air to surface, while the 77th is the opposite.

5th Sep 2010, 12:27
That pilot "Tik" I believe was featured in the series "Real Top Gun's" which I have of course. :p I believe he was from the Philippines.

5th Sep 2010, 21:31
Indian background, lived in Fiji, moved to NZ and ended up in Australia.

6th Sep 2010, 00:57
Somebody's been watching Real Top Guns!

Tik was one of the pilots featured in that program and he is/was attached to No. 75 SQN.

For anyone interested if you haven't seen it before, Real Top Guns is airing at the moment on SBS. In Melbourne it's on at 2:30pm each Friday. I'm not sure if the scheduling is any different in other states.

It's already a couple of episodes in but is worth having a look at. I think you can also buy it at the ABC shop.

It certainly gives you a little bit of an insight into life in the RAAF.

6th Sep 2010, 09:52
Just while we're on the topic of video series. Another good one for applicants keen on fast jets is a Canadian Air Force documentary called 'Jet Stream'. It covers ONLY hornet convertion and training, and it opens your eyes as to how full on the training gets. I would assume (obviously with a few differences) that it is pretty similar to what the RAAF puts its pilots through, although any RAAF FJ pilots who've seen the series may be able to elaborate. Although it is Canadian i'd recommend it.

On a side note, earlier today I called DFR hoping to confirm that my file was infact up at PSA. As luck would have it my enlistment coordinator is on annual leave, but one of the other staff members kindly said they'd follow it up and call me back. I didn't get called back today but i will call tomorrow morning. Anyway to the point, did any of you get any notification that your file had arrived at PSA, letter phone call, email etc.



6th Sep 2010, 10:03
If you're talking to me then no mate, I havent been watching real top guns. I knew tik when I was posted to the 75th back in early 2007 after 2 stints at No.3.

6th Sep 2010, 10:46
BlackPrince77: PM sent

6th Sep 2010, 11:44
Young chap I know has got the nod for Tamworth from 29/9 to 9/10.

Anyone else here get a call?

6th Sep 2010, 12:05
Yep, headed up there 25/9 till 9/10 (ADFA), cant wait!

6th Sep 2010, 12:30
Congratulations Jim. Good luck:ok:

Captain Sand Dune
6th Sep 2010, 22:42
Hey, aren't you supposed to be baiting RTB and NP on another thread?!

6th Sep 2010, 23:00
ssssshhhhh! Don't let them know I lurk here too. :E

I'm just doing the proud dad bit. CoodaKid 3's the young chap referred to.

7th Sep 2010, 01:09
Congratulations Jim & CoodaShooda! :D

Making it to FSP is an achievement in itself. All the best!

Let us know how you both go.

7th Sep 2010, 03:58
Just while we're on the topic of video series. Another good one for applicants keen on fast jets is a Canadian Air Force documentary called 'Jet Stream'. It covers ONLY hornet convertion and training, and it opens your eyes as to how full on the training gets. I would assume (obviously with a few differences) that it is pretty similar to what the RAAF puts its pilots through, although any RAAF FJ pilots who've seen the series may be able to elaborate. Although it is Canadian i'd recommend it.
I remember watching this series last year on the Discovery channel and second Nick's approval. If anyone out there has seen it - do you remember Capt. Mike Lewis, who failed the centrifuge test 3 times (could not sustain consciousness at 6gs for 15 secs). Seeing how easily Lewis blacked out made me wonder - is the hypoxia training during AVMED in the hyperbaric chamber similar to what the crew in Jetstream faced? Lewis' failure ended his dream of being a hornet pilot...

7th Sep 2010, 04:45
do you remember Capt. Mike Lewis, who failed the centrifuge test 3 times (could not sustain consciousness at 6gs for 15 secs). Seeing how easily Lewis blacked out made me wonder - is the hypoxia training during AVMED in the hyperbaric chamber similar to what the crew in Jetstream faced? Lewis' failure ended his dream of being a hornet pilot...

I have hear it is simillar, but the Gs and time may be different, not 100% sure though. Same general idea.

Also at the end of the last episode they said Capt. Lewis had "6 months specialist training" (anyone know what this would be?) and was given one more shot, passed and completed his hornet training a year later. Just goes to show if you have the motivation there should never be an end.

7th Sep 2010, 05:56
You're now calling me CoodaKid 3? Ha!

lesnak, I completed my YOU session on the 13th September 2009, Spec. testing in early February, assessment day on June 3 and received a letter in the mail from PSA letting me know that my file had been received on the 30th June which put me out of contention for the first couple of ADFA FSP courses.

7th Sep 2010, 06:12
You've been CoodaKid 3 for the past 9 years, you just didn't know it. :E

Anyway, shouldn't you be at work?

7th Sep 2010, 06:42
Lesnak: Yes from start to finish FJ training takes around 4 years to complete.

7th Sep 2010, 06:43

Had my YOU session on 9th March 2010, Spec Testing mid-april, assesment day mid-may and my dossier was sent up 3 weeks later, so have gone through pretty well.

Zulk, So you're heading up on the 25th too? Well done, I'll see you up there! Will be a fun 2 weeks haha.

7th Sep 2010, 07:01
JimH, you'll see me there. The nerves are already biting! Well done and good luck to you too.

7th Sep 2010, 11:35
Havn't been on in a while...

Good luck guys... Just a few pointers for young players.

Study hard whilst up there and prove to the OSB your competitiveness. Aim to be a stand out, but play as a team. Your ability to fly is not the be all end all, your rate of learning/ability to learn from mistakes and how fast you learn is the key with the flying component. Don't be afraid to make mistakes... Just learn from them.

For the OSB component... Just show that you have integrity, confidence and the ability to influence other members of the group (lead), Whilst showing that you are a team player.

I hope you make it and begin one of the most rewarding careers anyone could possibly have...

P.S. Jets aren't that great :}

7th Sep 2010, 12:30
Best of luck to Cooda and Jim, I hope fsp goes well for you.

Dilmah G
7th Sep 2010, 12:34
Echoed from here. Good luck! :D

8th Sep 2010, 11:36
Cheers everyone, will keep you posted on how it goes. Am very excited, have never been in a plane smaller than a 737 before so will be a very new experience!

9th Sep 2010, 07:43
Congratulations guys, goodluck. Hope to be up their soon myself.

10th Sep 2010, 05:05

Keep in there mate, my attempt to get into pilot training for the RAAF took 2 and a half years... Just be committed and hassle DFR at every chance. If you annoy them enough you'll go straight to the top of the pile (not a real guarantee but constant phone calls do annoy the recruitment teams). Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

14th Sep 2010, 00:38
Thankyou Spacemantan

I shall now be the squeaky wheel. I Am going to the williamtown airshow so hopefully I should be able to talk to a few pilots, get an idea of what it is like through training/ in a squadron.

In the meantime i was wondering if anyone out their had any answers to my question: While waiting for flight screening, would it be more beneficial for me to get flying Lessons or do aerobatic joy flights?


Jimmy Recard
14th Sep 2010, 02:02

I've been doing some flying lessons and have done one aerobatic flight so far out of about 10 hours (I think around the 7 hour mark). Just did some basic manoeuvres inc. barrel rolls, loops and hammerheads and to be honest I've been much more sketchy at times flying circuits and when it gets a bit rough/windy due to my inexperience. Personally I would feel much more confident going to FSP having done some actual lessons, done a few hours in the circuit, made some radio calls, learnt some checklists, etc. - just getting used to the environment and the types of procedures you will be using. I thought I would have no problems with this sort of thing but I have found you very quickly run out of brainspace in an unfamiliar environment when trying to do a number of new things simultaneously. The aero stuff was relatively easy compared to all that and I'd be happy to go to FS without having done any if I couldn't afford it - I just did what my instructor showed/told me and it worked out... most of the time. I guess it's a good idea to do a flight if you can though - plus it's awesome fun :) Hope this helps mate!

- Just my opinion though - I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say as well, anyone else?


14th Sep 2010, 06:59
I agree with Jimmy in regards to your question aus111c - however completing a few aerobatic flights can't hurt either (well, only your wallet..). I flew in a Tiger Moth today and did some aerobatics - I've done some in a glider before but it's a totally different feeling being in an open cockpit. I would recommend seeing how your body deals with lots of positive G's though (and a few negatives thrown in). It is expected that a few pilots - even on 2FTS - will feel a bit quesy in the PC9 but if you come down from an aerobatic flight feeling green and reaching for your sick bag every time then you might want to ask yourself if it's a one-off occurrence or if it's a more serious problem. Of course, this is only my opinion - but a few loops and barrel rolls can't hurt :)

14th Sep 2010, 07:24
Thanks guys,

I think I will go with the lessons, even though a flight in a Pitts special seems very attractive. I have previously had 2 TIFs out at camden. One in a citabria, did a loop and hammerhead, kept my stomach inside, lots of fun. And then a standard TIF in a Cessna 172, My instructor that day was unbelievable, took the time with me to go over the whole plane, inside and out (systems, engine, materials etc), explained most of the instruments and then continued explaining every detail throughout the taxi and flight. Turned a half hour flight into a 45 minute flight and an hour of talking, very enjoyable.

14th Sep 2010, 07:36
aus111c and Jimmy

Although learning things like checklists and RT etc etc gives you a good appreciation, you don't need to know that stuff for FSP. Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to discourage you doing that sort of stuff, but I think you'll find that if you have control of the aircraft whilst someone operates the Radio's and does all your checklists (Just like FSP), you'll find that there can be an abundance of brain space... Which then gets sapped by moving quickly through the syllabus.

Once being selected post FSP and when you begin BFTS/2FTS... Thats when the appreciation comes in because you'll be expected to do it all yourself.

14th Sep 2010, 12:12
Congrats to those selected to go to FSP, itís an achievement within itself.

For any of you have recently done specialist pilot testing, is the essay involved in this testing or assessment day.

Thanks in regards for an help

Lacho :)

14th Sep 2010, 22:00
I had to write my essay on assessment day, first thing in the morning.

Jimmy Recard
15th Sep 2010, 01:24
Yep me too - was the first thing we had to do on Assessment Day. Make sure you have good reasons and answers to the obvious questions they will ask you - will help to set out the important points you want to get across so your essay has some structure and you don't forget anything - this will help for your interview as well. Good luck with it all!


15th Sep 2010, 04:52

This thread contains a lot of good information on what to expect at both specialist testing and Assessment day so make sure to give it a thorough read through. As for the essays, I am under the impression they are utilised by the ADF to assess your ability to communicate effectively. Adding to what Jimmy recard said, it would certainly be a good idea to think about your personal motivation, expectations and qualities for the officer role prior to heading in as time will certainly be of the essence. However, equally as important in written communication is structure (you don't want to be jumping all over the place) and especially, spelling and grammar. Effective communication is a pivotal part of the officer role so expect your language to be heavily scrutinised. If you're looking for some feedback I'd suggest writing some mini-essays and getting your English teacher to have a look at them.

Good luck!


16th Sep 2010, 13:31
On behalf of myself and all the other Tasmanian applicants who had the chance, I'd like to thank the boys from the Roulettes and the boys and girls from the 34 Squadron Challenger who played host to us after the Battle of Britain display in Hobart last weekend. (Not to mention a big thank you to the girls in recruiting for arranging the get together.)

Not having any airbases in the state can make it hard getting face to face time with serving pilots.

I'm sure my fellow applicants found it as useful and interesting as I did.


20th Sep 2010, 09:44
Hi everyone,

I have my assessment day coming up and I have been thinking over one issue. What would be there view on underage drinking?

I understand they would be against it but honestly, in my opinion, I think you would be hard pressed to find many year 11/12 aged kids that hadn't at least done it once or twice. I fall under this category - I have drunk socially with friends 3 times and I am currently 16 I have always intended to go in to the psych interview and try explain this but I am thinking that while honestly is great it might not be best in this situation. Also in replying please don't tell me how bad it is or that it is illegal etc. It is a decision I have made. Think of when you were 16/17, did you really never drink once?

Thank You,
Rhinodriver (hopefully one day).

20th Sep 2010, 10:42
Did any of you manage to get out to the Airshow at Williamtown over the weekend?

It was great getting up close and personal to a few of the jets, especially the Super Hornet. Seeing it in action was inspiring. It was also helpful to chat to a few of the pilots as well.

I was disappointed that the C-17 didn't do a display, but i was able to have a good walk around the inside, and managed to have a good chat with the pilot as well. Really an amazing aircraft.



20th Sep 2010, 11:34
The squeaky wheel certainly does get the grease. I also found CPL Maher to be very helpful.

Managed to get a spot on the 9/10-23/10, anyone else heading down then?

Can't wait!


20th Sep 2010, 11:38

Yeah I made the trip up there, got the sunburn to prove it haha.
I had a great day, but was also disappointed the C17 didn't go up...awesome to see the Rhino in action and the F111 farewell. Had a chat to an ex F111/Hawk instructor/current Rhino pilot. He summed up Flight screening as "monkey see, monkey do" which I found interesting. All in all, a long but great day. Nothing better to amp up the motivation.


21st Sep 2010, 02:35
I was there. Had a good chat to 'rooster' the SQDLDR at 3 Sqdn, even got some things signed by him!

His advice was straight forward and obvious, but it works. To get in, he said, be school captain, get A's in physics and high level maths and a high grading HSC, play at least one sport and be team captain and get some gliding experience. Seems straight forwards, but that will tick all the boxes and you will be a top competitor.

21st Sep 2010, 04:59
I was there. Had a good chat to 'rooster' the SQDLDR at 3 Sqdn, even got some things signed by him!

His advice was straight forward and obvious, but it works. To get in, he said, be school captain, get A's in physics and high level maths and a high grading HSC, play at least one sport and be team captain and get some gliding experience. Seems straight forwards, but that will tick all the boxes and you will be a top competitor. Thanks for posting that info! :O Although you don't need A's in maths or physics. B's are sufficient.

21st Sep 2010, 06:02
Quiet right BP, you don't need A's but, and there is always one, if its a toss up for the final spot between two appliacnts guess which one gets it.

21st Sep 2010, 22:46
Hey NicKM91, oneflewnorth, Shonfield and anyone else who went to the airshow on the weekend, it was a great experience.

Did anyone else notice the C-130 on the saturday. It was tugged down the taxi way but then about an hour later it was tugged back. I thought hmmm, why would u tug an aircraft to the end of the runway unless u wanted to fly so something isnt right. Sure enough, on my return to the show for the sunday, it did take to the air. On that note, I too would have loved to see the Globemaster in action, oh well, cant have your cake and eat it too.

I also had a great chat to many pilots from different types (C-17, BBJ, Wedgetail, Hawk, Hornet, PC-9, CT4 instructor...Oh and the FireFighters) and at different stages in their career. To all these pilots and the organisers of the show...Thankyou, it was a priceless experience.

22nd Sep 2010, 05:16
I did my pilot additional testing yesterday and thanks to all who helped me with some invaluable information. Myself and another guy had an unusual result were we both passed for pilot but not ATC or ACO.

1. Will this possibly affect my competitiveness at FSP?

2. Will it be a possible chance for an attempted grilling at assessment day or OSB?

3. Does anyone know how or how to submit a request for results of the testing as the people at the DFRC didnít know?

Thanks in advance,

22nd Sep 2010, 06:42
I assume that it has something to do with not doing well in the maths components, just my guess.

1)Prob not, but it might be harder to get on FSP
2) Unlikely
3) something about sending a request to canberrra

22nd Sep 2010, 07:00
I also rang up PSA and the corporal was very nice, said I am highly likely to get a spot on the remaining 3 DEO courses but more likely for course 43 or 44 (23rd october & 30th October start dates), was pretty ecstatic at that news even though it wasn't a definite. Those dates also dont clash with my uni exams so far which is lucky.

Time for a lot of preparation now. :)

23rd Sep 2010, 08:15
Hey Aus,

Did you ring up PSA on the advice of your Case Manager/DFR?

I'm currently waiting to get on flight screening and when I asked my manager at Parramatta whether there was any way I could check how long til I heard I was told I would just have to wait for a call. However, I just came back from OSB for my 2nd pref (ACO) at Canberra, and there I met up with another guy who was also given PSAs number from his DFR and organised himself a spot after calling.

I talked to the Careers Counsellor at OSB about that and he hadn't heard about doing that and said he would be hesitant in skipping the system - so I'm just wondering if calling PSA is a legitimate step (it wouldn't surprise me if DFR gave me dodgy info :rolleyes:).

Can anyone provide advice?


23rd Sep 2010, 10:48
Hey schoey

You should at some point receive a letter from PSA saying that your file has arrived their and you are in competition with the other applicants and so on, I rang up PSA the day after receiving that letter and they were able to give me more information on my competitiveness. Mine arrived about 6 weeks after my Assessment Day. I would recommend ringing your manager first so they can confirm your file has arrived their, then if it has I would ring PSA up. According to PSA there are 27 DEO spots left this year (3 courses of 9).

Best of Luck

Is there anyone on this forum who has been to flight screening recently and has any tips on what to expect in addition to what is throughout this thread?

24th Sep 2010, 02:37
Hey Lesnak

Congrats on getting a place on FSP. Best of luck, I hope you do really well.


27th Sep 2010, 01:38
Congrats on getting a spot at FSP lesnak!:ok:

I just did my pilot spec testing last week and now have my assessment day next week, so hopefully I'll be making my way up to Tamworth in the not too distant future too.

On another note, I'm brushing up on things for assessment day including things like leadership.

I remember reading a post (may or may not have been here) about the leadership style/philosophy used in the RAAF and ADF. Unfortunately I didn't copy down the link and haven't had any luck finding it again. Can anyone help me with a gentle nudge in the right direction?



Dilmah G
27th Sep 2010, 05:32
Mate, I've read somewhere that the RAAF uses the 'John Adair' model for action centred leadership or something to that effect for its junior officers. Google it and you'll find a fair few images of the rather famous three interlocking circles and if you're lucky, a few pages going into more detail.

Take that with a grain of salt though, as I think it was the AAFC forum I picked that one up from. :p Regardless, A) Someone who actually knows will hopefully drive-by and post, and B) There aren't too many gaping holes with the John Adair method anyway, if you decide to use that philosophy in any leadership exercises.

Also, I've got a .pdf lying around on my computer about Leadership in the ADF that I've picked up a while ago (when I googled ADF Leadership) which I've uploaded to my mediafire account if you'd like to give that a read as well.

RAAF Leadership.pdf (http://www.mediafire.com/?k9cv963plkx3mf2)

28th Sep 2010, 01:15
G'day guys,

I'm thrilled to say that i also just received an invitation from Flight Lieutenant N Dawkins to attend flight screening from the 16/10-30/10. So Lesnak, I'll be meeting you up there, and check your pm's.

I hope a few more of you get calls soon!



28th Sep 2010, 09:35
Just a few thoughts from someone who has been through all of this even if it was a while ago.

I am talking more about pilotís course here rather than flight screening.

Be open, be honest and do not worry about making a few mistakes along the way. Generally speaking they will think more of someone who tries and then learns from their mistakes than someone who is overly cautious all the time. ie admit your mistakes but try and minimise them. I have a friend who did not pass pilotís course and to this day still will not admit to, or does not understand the mistakes that got him scrubbed.

Fast jets are over rated and are not for everyone. It requires a different mentality and personality type to fly the different types. Remember that the current Chief of Defence Force is an RAAF Helicopter pilot and the current Chief of Air force is an ex Navy pilot. It just shows there is plenty of room for movement and places for the right people.

One of the biggest challenges you will find is not how difficult things are but the sheer amount of subjects that you are studying all at once. You need to juggle everything at once and get a reasonable pass in everything rather than distinctions in some things and then failing others. Working out when to simply tick the boxes and when to shine is one of the best things you can do to help yourself.

When you start pilotís course you need to realise that approximately 2/3 of those who start will not finish and that during your career there is a reasonable chance that someone you know will be killed in an aircraft accident. (Itís still safer than driving a car though)

Also a final thing to remember is that many people who have failed military pilotís course have gone on and had long and distinguished careers airline pilots, so if you donít make it then not all is lost.

29th Sep 2010, 06:48
Hi slowlane,

Thanks for the insight. Would you be able to elaborate on how fast jets are over rated/compare to transports etc? One of the questions I meant to ask a pilot at Williamtown was, 'if you could do it all over again, would they still pick fast jets?' so getting some insight from your statement might answer that. Thanks

Congrats Nick, awesome news.

29th Sep 2010, 09:35
Hi slowlane,

Thanks for the insight. Would you be able to elaborate on how fast jets are over rated/compare to transports etc? One of the questions I meant to ask a pilot at Williamtown was, 'if you could do it all over again, would they still pick fast jets?' so getting some insight from your statement might answer that. ThanksDon't get me wrong as I was not putting fast jets down, just pointing out that there are many other equally rewarding options out there.

As I said, fast jets simply do not suit everyone. There is a huge work load over about four years to even get fully qualified and then to only get about 20 hrs per month. There has only been one deployment of any aircraft in the strike force since the Korean war where as the Transport, the Maritime and the Helicopter guys have literally been everywhere and continue to go everywhere.

Every type has its challenges and many types have a lot more quality time in many OS locations. Conversely I know quite a few pilots who have specialised in the training environment and had huge job and personal satisfaction.

The other question to ask is where do you want to be 20-30 years later? Maritime or Transport aircraft will set you up much better to get that coveted airline job. That is for two reasons, one of which is similarity of types and roles and the other is the airlines look at total flying time and as I mentioned earlier the FJ people don't get a lot of that.

The other part of the reality is that the military will post you to where they want you and not necessarily to where you choose. (On my pilots course there was one person who got their first preference)

I hope that answers your question.

8th Oct 2010, 05:42
Word has it that both Jimh91 and zulk have been recommended.

Now they can look forward to waiting for an offer.

Congratulations and good luck to both of you. :ok:

8th Oct 2010, 21:43
That's fantastic news. Congratulations to JimH and zulk!

9th Oct 2010, 02:26
slowlane: There has only been one deployment of any aircraft in the strike force since the Korean war where as the Transport, the Maritime and the Helicopter guys have literally been everywhere and continue to go everywhere.

We get the gist, but not quite true.
1963 - Sabres to Borneo for Confrontation
1965-68 - Sabres at Ubon for Thailand air defence
1967-71 - Canberras Vietnam
2003 - Hornets GWII :ok:

9th Oct 2010, 02:39
Hi all,

Im going for my specialised testing in a couple of days.

Just wondering if anyone can give me any information about it/ practice questions/ essay info...


9th Oct 2010, 08:53
We get the gist, but not quite true.
1963 - Sabres to Borneo for Confrontation
1965-68 - Sabres at Ubon for Thailand air defence
1967-71 - Canberras Vietnam
2003 - Hornets GWII

Point taken and apologies.

10th Oct 2010, 03:31
Good point BB

Just a quick question though. In any of those deployments did the jet jocks actually do any jet jockying? That is engage any other aircraft in combat?

10th Oct 2010, 23:48
No disrespect to the fast jet comunity as I know the lads would love to be out there doing their stuff. However I think the point that SL is making is it is more likely that you will be doing what you where trained for in the trash world, logging more hours and seeing more sights.

11th Oct 2010, 04:50
For the guys heading over to flight screening in the coming months, all the information you need is in this thread somewhere. You can't prepare for some of the things they throw at you and that's just PSA's way of determining whether or not you've got what it takes. I personally believe prior flying experience will help the flying side of things; I had ten hours on ultra-lights logged in the last twelve months and didn't do too badly with the flying but there does come a point when you're left to your natural abilities in the air.

As for the fast jet pilots doing what they're trained to do, we had a speech on why the Army and the Navy offer a better opportunity to "use your wings" than the RAAF does and the point the Lieutenant made was the fact that Australian fighter pilots hadn't been deployed to fight other aircraft since the Korean war and are more or less stuck to training the skills and abilities they may never get to use in a hostile environment.

11th Oct 2010, 06:36
I had my spec testing for pilot today. Passed with a band 1 so I am very happy right now. If anyone would like to ask questions I am happy to answer, better to ask while it's fresh in my mind. Time to prepare for assessment day!

11th Oct 2010, 07:53
Zulk - be careful of what recruiting officers say to you especially the green. Read link from Tony360 above.

Besides there is more to the RAAF than fast jets - P3's and C130's have been in the middle east consistantly for a long time, C-17's make a regular appearence. If you go army then and you fly chooks you go to the meao - every year whilst in the squadron, if blackhawk then timor, timor and timor. Go to MRH90/tiger then read your post about fast jets.:O:O

Last year the RAN offered anyone, including those with ROSO the opportunity to transfer to army or resign such was the backlog of people waiting for conversion.:bored:

It's a great start to your flying career but be careful what lines the recruiters feed you.

11th Oct 2010, 08:42
Hi all,

I should say in advance that I am planning on calling recruiting tomorrow. However can anyone give me some advice on the following:

1/ Is it possible at all to become a pilot in the ADF with asthma? I can't find a definitive answer anywhere.

2/ I did general maths for the HSC, which I very much regret. Are there any courses that the RAAF accept as satisfying the requirements for maths. I am aware that the website refers to equivalent tertiary study, however I assume this means university and thus is not applicable to me.

As I say, I will be talking to recruiting tomorrow but I thought I'd throw these out there and see if they are a 100% no go problems.



11th Oct 2010, 08:45
Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion of this?

I have my assessment day coming up and I have been thinking over one issue. What would be there view on underage drinking?

I understand they would be against it but honestly, in my opinion, I think you would be hard pressed to find many year 11/12 aged kids that hadn't at least done it once or twice. I fall under this category - I have drunk socially with friends 3 times and I am currently 16 I have always intended to go in to the psych interview and try explain this but I am thinking that while honestly is great it might not be best in this situation. Also in replying please don't tell me how bad it is or that it is illegal etc. It is a decision I have made. Think of when you were 16/17, did you really never drink once?

Help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you,

11th Oct 2010, 08:48

Not sure about the asthma, but i believe there are people on here that have done courses at tafe to bring their maths up to standards. Look back through this thread and you should find an answer.

Dilmah G
11th Oct 2010, 10:06
QJB, Have you called DFR? Although they don't have a good reputation in this thread, I daresay it's worth a shot. By the way, this (http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/200911/200911bailey.pdf) might be of some relevance to you.

rhinodriver123: Well perhaps thinking about it a little might help. Looking at it rationally, think about the role you're applying for; a quick google search of 'Military Officer' yields a fair few results relating to integrity, judgement, good self conduct and all the rest of it being qualities desired in Officers.

So applying this to your situation, underage drinking and all of the associated is in the league of poor judgement/self conduct and may be looked upon that way by whoever's doing the talking.

But if asked about it and you admit to it/say it was wrong etc, they may see the integrity and maturity side of what you're saying.

Either way, you can't have been the first person to walk in there whose had something to drink whilst younger than 18.

11th Oct 2010, 11:16
Shonfield and Dilmah G, thanks alot for taking the time to respond. Dilmah G, that link was very useful thank you, unfortunately the very first paragraph seems to state that the asthma standards for aircrew remain unchanged. All should be revealed tomorrow when I call DFR! I'll let you know their response. Fingers crossed.