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Very Sneaky
18th Nov 2013, 08:38
@Blu3: That's very strange that they've just unilaterally given you a class 4.... I was under the impression that that decision was made after recieving evidence and confirmation of a condition, not just a questionnaire... Now that I think about it though, my initial contact with the nurse resulted in receiving a letter from AVMED to pass on to my doctor asking for a confirmation of diagnosis. My GP thought it was prudent to do specialist testing as he wasn't the one who diagnosed me, and so that's why I went on to do the challenge test before anything else. After I submitted the results to DFR I went on to do the pilot specific testing and assessment day. At assessment day the AVMED doctor said that he thought I had jumped the gun getting the challenge test done given that it may have been an unnecessary expense if I hadn't passed the pilot specific tests, though I would have had to do one eventually anyway when I made it to assessment day.

At assessment day they ask you even more questions and if you get any crosses you'll have to get more specialist testing done to satisfy the ADF that you're not a medical risk, but hopefully that won't apply to you.

From what I've heard you're not the only one to have complaints about the Perth DFR, though I have no first hand experience.

18th Nov 2013, 09:13

I found out that I may really not be getting an opportunity to get selected before my file expires at the PSA. Circumstances dictate that I pursue other things for a couple of years or so, and though I am aware that there is no official age limit for a pilot application, in your opinion, at what age does it start counting against you. I'm 24 and I've heard before that RAAF prefers candidates to be around the 25 year mark at the higher end.

In essence, would I be considered too old if I made an other application when I was around 27-29 years of age?


20th Nov 2013, 06:43
Don't stress mate, I think 27.5 is the cut off for RAAF and 49 for ARA and RAN. Although under special circumstances RAAF may accept you if you're slightly over age however I haven't heard of it been done. Don't stress about offers just yet, there may be a distribution in the next week or so. I know a guy who is in the top third of the pool and hasn't heard anything yet.

Fair skies
22nd Nov 2013, 22:50
Septerra, all,

As far as I know a RAAF distribution occurred this week and may still be ongoing. My file was distributed to DP AF along with some other guys I did screening with recently (oct-nov). I wouldn't be overly concerned if you didn't get a phone call. I had to call them and ask the status of my app to which they replied that it had been distributed earlier in the week. Also when calling PSA ask to speak with one of the Flight screening officers vice the orderly staff as both times I spoke I the clerk he gave me no info but when I spoke to one of the officers they told me everything.

Does anyone have any idea of the wait for a letter after you've been distributed?

Good luck to those still going through the process. If you need any info feel free to PM me. Also I am an in service applicant for anyone on the inside.

Fair skies

Fair skies
24th Nov 2013, 04:05
Also with regards to age I wouldn't worry too much. Yes it is a young mans/ woman's game but the rule is not hard and fast.

25th Nov 2013, 09:07
Hi all,

Congratulations on all those who've had their files sent down to Canberra, I called PSA today and like Fair Skies I was told that my file was sent down on the 20th.

I'm a bit unsure as to what the chances of receiving an offer are from this point. I've been led to believe (Partly from the Single Service Brief at Flight Screening) that having your file sent to Canberra means that you've been shortlisted (though how short the list is I don't know) by PSA and that the chances of Canberra knocking it back are rather small. Does anyone know if this is true? I've also been told by another person that It's true for Army and Navy, but Air Force usually knock back about 50% :bored:

Fair skies
25th Nov 2013, 11:51
I'm fairly sure that Canberra (Directorate of Personnel in the RAAF example) contact PSA and request a certain amount of pilots for the upcoming courses which are then scooped from the top of the pool. From there, as far as I understand, you are essentially just waiting for the formalities of a letter of offer.

This info mostly comes from guys that have been through the process before and whom I currently work with.

Cheers and good luck to all. I hope too meet some of you in the near future (hopefully very near!)

27th Nov 2013, 05:59
Thanks Fair Skies, here's hoping that's the case and we'll be getting the offers in the next few weeks.

As a bit of additional info (partly regarding your question on how long the wait will be), I was told by the CPL at PSA that Canberra has 3 weeks from when they get the file (the 20th) to make a decision and reply to PSA and from there PSA apparently will contact you to let you know that you've been given an offer. So December 11th their deadline for decisions, and if you haven't been contacted by PSA by then, then Canberra has knocked your offer back and you go back into the pool for the other two services.

I think they contact you by phone first to let you know before the letter is sent out, much like for Flight Screening itself. Though I'm not entirely sure on this

28th Nov 2013, 02:53
I phoned PSA today and they informed me my file was with the distribution centre which isn't controlled by PSA (according to the CPL), does anyone know what this means? I'm not really sure if that is the same thing as the Department of Personal or if its just sitting in the distribution pool like all other recommendations...Any ideas? My preferences are RAAF and Army


2nd Dec 2013, 06:26
By the sounds of it, you seem to be in the same boat as Fair Skies and myself.

Has anyone received any offers yet after having their file sent to Canberra? There's only 7 business days left until the 11th and I'm starting to get nervous haha

Fair skies
2nd Dec 2013, 10:35
Hey guys. Got a call advising me that a letter of offer is in the mail today. Absolutely over the moon!! Has anyone else been contacted? Looks like a March OTS start at this stage.:ok:

3rd Dec 2013, 07:45
Congratulations on the offer, I guess that answers my question haha.

10th Dec 2013, 23:51
Well, I received a call this morning from the CPL who was my interviewer on my YOU session.

Asking things like, how I was doing, about what I do for a living, what role I performed in the UK RAF, about my daughter, how my fitness levels are etc. All of this I am pretty sure was down in my application.

However he did mention that he was asked to write a report and pass it on to a DFR Sergeant to look at pilot spec testing in the new year.

Hopefully this is a good sign of my application finally being moved forward. I am an SSO candidate, citizenship eligibility in Feb next year.

Just seemed a little odd to get a call out of the blue and asking all the questions I had answered in my application.

11th Dec 2013, 21:49
FYI for ADFA candidates. I called up to check my application and have been told that intake is so low at this point in time and many people, including myself unfortunately, won't get an offer despite passing everything and getting recommended at osbÖ Make sure you have a contingency plan...

12th Dec 2013, 06:35
Just had my assessment day today, and have been recommended for next stage,

Just wondering if anyone has any knowledge as to how applicants are ranked/ how full the pool is at the moment and if there is anyway of finding out where you sit in that pool of candidates. A year can be a very long time to wait!

Thanks, Ben

12th Dec 2013, 09:39

From what I have heard so far, a mid-pool DEO recommendation is a similar scenario. I've been told my chances are extremely slim to none. Hopefully, your file expiry at PSA is still a while away and perhaps things may pick up in the meanwhile.

12th Dec 2013, 11:38
@ Septerra

Yea it's pretty demoralising hey, especially after passing everything. I've spent the last 2 years dedicated to this cause only to fall short by an inchÖ I'm sure there are others who have been trying for longer!

Anyway I have a mate who got a medium rec and got an army DEO offer so there is hope for youÖ

13th Dec 2013, 06:49

how did you find out where abouts in the pool your sitting!?

Fair skies
13th Dec 2013, 23:51
G'day all,

To find out where you sit simply call PSA and ask about your competitiveness and how likely you are to get an offer. They are usually more than happy to tell you how your going.

Fair skies

19th Dec 2013, 09:26
Hi all,
I have just been informed that I dont meet the minimum eye standard for pilot due to the optometrist testing they conduct after flight screening so AVMED calss 3. I did the same test 18 months ago and passed. I spoke to the optometrist and he said that AVMED have a new doctor who is reviewing all the testing paper work but my eyes were okay. Is anyone else in the same situation? It may just be occurring in WA.


alec taylor
27th Dec 2013, 02:32
I have just received a letter from medical. I'am classified as a class 4. Permanently unfit for service, unless my appeal is successful, due to an optometrist report. Pretty heartbreaking stuff...

Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat or has had a similar experience. Information on the appeal process would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Alec.

2nd Jan 2014, 10:37
Hey Alec,
I would definitely get a second opinion and appeal. I know at least 2 other guys that have been told they dont meet the minimum eye standard. Apparently a new guy at AVMED is not letting people through if they dont meet the prescribed standard even if the optometrist says they are suitable for pilot. The optometrist in Perth resubmitted the paper work but wont hear anything until the new year. Although I dont know your situation I would look into it.


3rd Jan 2014, 04:08

The optometrist does not set the standard. It matters nought, even if he knows the requirements, if he thinks your suitable, itís AVMED that make the decision.

3rd Jan 2014, 07:05
How bad are you eyes?? laser surgery is an option for most but you won't get your file to fsp until you are medically fit

8th Jan 2014, 04:02
Hi guys, I'm very interested in any more details you can provide about the eye testing.

I am slightly colour blind. Most of the time I can see both numbers on the Ishihara test. I have passed the colour blind test at the you session (had to do both Ishihara and lantern test) but I am slightly stressed that it could be my undoing.

I have put way too much time and money into bettering my application to let this get in my way. I want to be as prepared as possible.

8th Jan 2014, 05:07
It's the post FSP eye tests you need to worry about, they are very thorough! Best to go see an optometrist and find out before hand, may save you some headaches! GL


25th Jan 2014, 03:29
Hi everyone.

I have been told that my file is at PSF.

Can anyone tell me what to expect. I have read this thread and found it all very informative but would like any new info on what happens at PSF.


27th Jan 2014, 23:20
I just rang up PSA this morning, and they are quite low on numbers at the moment. If your results are good enough then expect to get a booking on a FSP shortly.

As an update, RAAF are looking for quality fast jet pilots only at the moment (instead of just filling numbers, they want promising applicants, even if it means not filling spots), Army are looking for SSO applicants with experience at the moment and Navy is moving along as normal.

Hope this helps.

28th Jan 2014, 01:59
Hello everyone,
Firstly would like to say thanks to everyone that has posted here. There is a wealth of information here for aspiring future pilots such as my self.
I sit pilot aptitude testing in the near future and am wanting to know people opinions on whether it is best to quickly guess any remaining questions that may be present before the time ends or best to leave them and just do the best you can accurately.
Also in regards to the spatial orientation test where there is a picture of an aircraft and a word depicting the next picture; for example- plane is INVERTED but straight and level and the movement is 'nose up' is the right answer a picture of the plane nose up or down as you see it on the paper/screen? Hope this makes sense to people!
Any response from people's experiences greatly appreciated.
Cheers. LS

28th Jan 2014, 07:21
That is spot on C17.

When I was as Flight Screening last year, they were very clear that the RAAF were only really after fast jet pilots. They have also implemented a 'Gate' for RAAF members after BFTS. This is a check point meaning that just because you pass BFTS, it doesn't mean you automatically progress to 2FTS. If you pass, but are not in the top candidates, you will not make it through the gate and might possibly be streamed to ACO, or something else in the RAAF.

Right about Army, and Navy only has about 3 spots per NEOC intake.

29th Jan 2014, 03:58
Hi Everyone,

I posted here a while ago about my application process. At that time I was held up by my medical. Since then I have been given a waiver for my hearing (was only slightly below minimum at 1 freq. in one ear) and I am due to go to Tamworth this Sunday.

After I had been told I had gotten the hearing waiver I was booked in to see an ophthalmologist, get a blood test and see the RAAF dentist at Penrith, all of which I did not have to pay. Is it normal to do these tests before flight screening and are there any extra medical tests are done after flight screening if you are successful?

Good luck to all others who are applying!

29th Jan 2014, 10:16

Those are the extra medicals that are done after FSP. As far as I know it's not normal to do them pre-FSP.

Perhaps they're doing them beforehand because there might be a distribution coming up soon after your FSP ends, and if you're successful they won't want to waste time getting things sorted. That's just a guess though.

29th Jan 2014, 21:30
Frappe, I know myself, and others had the extra medicals prior to going to Tamworth. I think, as you say, it is to help speed up the process when offers start to come out.

That said, I know of some, who get these tests done, then go to Tamworth, only to get home and find that they did not pass these tests and are now not medically fit.

1st Feb 2014, 02:25
Hi All,

I also had my medicals completed prior to the FSP. I have been invited to the mid Feb course but have completed the ophthalmology, dental and blood tests already which I found interesting.

I think there is quite a shortage on the courses at the moment as my enlistment coordinator advised me in early January that the FSP courses are full until mid March, then PSA rang up about two weeks later offering a spot mid Feb with only 2 weeks notice.

In regards to the FSP is anybody able to shed any light on whether there is additional testing done? Should I be brushing up on more specific mathematics or is it mainly leadership and teamwork activities as well as the presentations?

Also if anybody was able to speak with me privately regarding life in the ADF I would be very very appreciative. I was informed I should organize a base visit and speak with a current serving member in the role I am applying for. I have tried for a base visit but am being told it's not possible as the FSP is too soon and I have a friend in the Army flying Chinooks who I would speak to but I believe he is in the Middle East still as I can't get hold of him.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

3rd Feb 2014, 02:54
Just to be clear for people considering laser surgery...

You don't need "perfect" eyesight to attend FSP. In other words, no need to consider laser surgery until after FSP.
Regarding eyesight, discuss it with medical staff. Don't listen to other ADF/DFR personnel in DFR offices.
When I went through, there was a pre-surgery limit of -5.00 diopters which you had to be above, eg: I was okay, since I had -3.75 before surgery.
After laser surgery, you'll need to obtain post-op reports for a 3 month period before they'll progress your application. Plan accordingly.
I was told in no uncertain terms, by ADF personnel at three different DFR offices, that;
I needed to have 20/20 (6/6) vision before applying for pilot (ie: before YOU session)
I could have any type of laser surgery

Both points were very incorrect. Medical staff were extremely unhappy when they found out I'd been given that information. Apparently I could've asked to speak to medical staff at the DFR office and they would've given me the correct information... if only I'd known to ask... at that point I believed if someone in a DFR office told be something, it had to be correct. And yes, I do feel like a complete idiot now.

As someone else pointed out, AVMED has the authority to issue waivers for FSP attendance. I don't know about the post-FSP testing/waiver process.

4th Feb 2014, 07:13
If anyone out there has been through an appeal for a class 4 medical and your willing to discuss your experience could you please get in touch with me.


12th Feb 2014, 05:20
anyone have astigmatism but been cleared for medical 1?

had my ophthalmologist test done. 20/20 vision, but i have slight astigmatism, however he said i don't need to wear glasses.

I checked online and most pilots in the RAF/USAF can have slight astigmatism and be waivered through. Not sure how it's done here. Hoping someone's been through the same as me, thanks!

also going to FSP march second :)

12th Feb 2014, 21:12

Have a read of this - http://www.oaansw.com.au/visionstds/ADF_Vision_Requirements_Aviation.pdf - you can see that you can have an astigmatism and still be AVR1.

No issue really.

13th Feb 2014, 04:42

you'll be treated the same as any other candidate. Doesn't matter how much experience you have (although it does look good and shows you're passionate about aviation).

You'll still need to do the you day, specific testing, medical, assessment then onto FSP. remember there have been guys with 2000hrs+ in jets straight from qantas who didn't get a recommendation. Military flying is far more different than civilian. Age can also be a factor

13th Feb 2014, 05:07
You are right there about the military flying being different to civilian flying Sashisruski.

But FYI - from my experience at FSP, age is not a factor - unless the applicant is 40+.

13th Feb 2014, 17:57

I recently was informed that an Army distribution for a May intake is to occur in March. I was wondering if any of you have further info on numbers and dates for this distribution call. Feeling quite anxious, as this is the last opportunity before my file goes invalid at the PSA [post 12 months].

Thank you

15th Feb 2014, 01:57
How long does it take to wait after you have medical or other conditions reassessed and informed the recruiting unit?

15th Feb 2014, 05:55
Jetx, I can only speak from a RAAF point of view, but below is some things that I think a chap like yourself should consider before taking the leap and giving up seniority at a major.

Passing BFTS doesn't mean that you will be offered a spot at 2FTS. You will still have to perform the RAAF way.

2FTS is geared around making fighter pilots. It is great fun as it containes a lot of stuff that civvies don't get to do. It can be very humbling to guys with previous experience.

If you make fighters expect to fly about 250 hrs average a year. This can decrease as you move through the ranks. I expect that this will also decrease with JSF as it is expensive to operate and will have an excellent simulation training system.

A lot of the other types are similar to the airliners you fly now, KC30, E7, P8, BBJ. If you fly them you will start at the bottom as a co pilot to learn your specific trade and there is generally no RPL. Expect the flying hours to be less than what you fly now as mission planning requirements are large and tasking can be erratic. The upside is that its much less mundane than RPT.

Ask yourself if you are suffering from the grass is greener syndrome. Most RAAF pilots at some stage (usually the 10 year mark) will entertain if not go through with getting out. Sometimes it is the grass is greener syndrome, but it is usually around the time you start looking down the barrel of flying much less( if at all) and doing more staff work. The usual flying career is one bog rat tour of 4 years then off to be some kind of specialist, FCI, QFI or Test/ OT&E pilot. This usually comes with a few years of moving around the county side.

If all of this agrees with you, then do it. There is two ex civvie reasonable time pilots flying hawks now, and loving it.

Don't die wondering.

17th Feb 2014, 00:39
Hey guys,

New to the forum here. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone thatís posted on here Iíve found it really helpful in preparing for each stage of the process. Hope everyone goes well regarding medical concerns. Iím right on the border for height so Iím crossing my fingers that I donít grow any more before flight screening! Just wondering how many of you guys did flying before you went up to flight screening? I have a few hours in a glider and two hours in a powered aircraft, just wondering if there is any benefit in me doing some more? Would hate to generate bad habits before going up there but Iíve heard there could be some benefit in doing aerobatics.



Very Sneaky
17th Feb 2014, 05:12
Hey guys,

New to the forum here. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone thatís posted on here Iíve found it really helpful in preparing for each stage of the process. Hope everyone goes well regarding medical concerns. Iím right on the border for height so Iím crossing my fingers that I donít grow any more before flight screening! Just wondering how many of you guys did flying before you went up to flight screening? I have a few hours in a glider and two hours in a powered aircraft, just wondering if there is any benefit in me doing some more? Would hate to generate bad habits before going up there but Iíve heard there could be some benefit in doing aerobatics.



G'day Ben,

I'd have to say there is definitely benefit to getting some hours before going up, and if you can cram them into a small period relatively close to when you're going up even better (so it sticks). It can be quite a steep learning curve at FSP for someone with little experience, so giving yourself the best opportunity to decrease that by learning some fundamentals can never be a bad idea. I think it's fairly safe to say you're not going to develop any bad habits after 10 or so hours that you wont be able to easily change up there.

My personal recommendation is that you go for a couple of aerobatic flights to see how you like it and determine how your body will react to it (you're going to be doing a lot of them). The reason I say this is that I only found out when I was up there that it is quite common for the body to go through a transitional phase of getting used to the 3 dimensional aerial environment, which lead to me getting pretty bad air sickness for the first half of my flights at FSP.

This isn't to be confused with motion sickness; I've never had a problem with high-g rides, flying or any other activity that could induce motion sickness before, but I can tell you that it wasn't a pleasant experience for those first few flights while I got used to it. It also made it increasingly difficult to pick up what the instructor was telling me when the only thing I could think about ways to mitigate the sickness. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't happen to everybody but it isn't uncommon from what I'm told and I'd hate for it to happen to you as well!



18th Feb 2014, 03:02
is FSP just on the CT4B now? i assumed it was but the RAAF website says you'll be flying the cap-10.

Also I have about 42 hours powered flight, however the last time i flew was 2.5 years ago, what course would I be in? thanks

18th Feb 2014, 05:10
Hey guys,

Been reading the forum for a while now, it's been a fantastic help so thanks to everyone that posted on here! Just received a good recommendation out of my assessment day now just waiting on flight screening.

To answer your question 'Sashisruski' you only be fly the CT-4 at flight screening, the CAP 10 hasn't been used for a few years now. The Air Force website seems to be quite outdated. Not sure about whether your hours expire after a certain amount of time so someone else will have to field that.

Congrats on booking a spot on flight screening!


18th Feb 2014, 06:24
Hey Guys,

This is my first time post to the forum, been reading it for a while. Thanks to everyone who has posted!

I'm about to go to flight screening and I've been told that when you get your helmets it's important to make sure you don't get hotspots. Just wondering if anyone has any tips on this?


Very Sneaky
18th Feb 2014, 07:28
is FSP just on the CT4B now? i assumed it was but the RAAF website says you'll be flying the cap-10.

Also I have about 42 hours powered flight, however the last time i flew was 2.5 years ago, what course would I be in? thanks

That's strange, the RAAF website must be out of date. It's all done on the CT4. Hard to say what course you'll be in.. they run your hours and dates through a formula which takes into account the recency and type of your experience, but I think it would be a good bet that you'll be doing an intermediate course.

18th Feb 2014, 22:44
Hey ranopaul,

I just got back from flight screening and can tell you that hotspots are a real issue. The best thing you can do is put your helmet on and fit it so its comfy, then go out to the lounges and wear it for like an hour. No one will care that you are doing this, they will know what your doing. Then after an hour if you don't feel any hotspots (or discomfort) you're good to go. If you do then get the guy to insert pads and adjust it and wear it again for a while and repeat.

I ended up getting a good recommendation but other guys on my course weren't so lucky. One of them had killer hot spots and took him like three flights to get it right. He said it destroyed his concentration (I had a small hotspot my first flight and it was even hard to concentrate with that). Who knows if the failure to embed lessons on the first few flights carried over and affected his ability to demonstrate his learning curve. I would definitely just take the time to set it up right and then you don't have to worry about it.

Hope this helps,


19th Feb 2014, 11:28
i've heard of a lot of people getting hotspots with a poorly fitted helmet. will definitely try walking around it for at least 15-20min

also sent you a pm shipper

19th Feb 2014, 21:49
Agreed Shipper. Sitting in it for at least an hour prior to your first flight is a great idea.

I had some troubles with my helmet too, took a few attempts to get it right. The guy doing the helmets was really helpful though, and we got it right in the end.

I personally don't think that 15-20 mins will be useful, given each sortie is at least an hour and you will have the helmet on for a bit longer than that (going through pre-flight checks before the prop is started). 15-20 mins won't even get you in the air. You still will have about an hour to go. From my experience it took at least 30-40 mins to get the hotspots appearing.

20th Feb 2014, 13:38
G'day guys, asking this on behalf of a friend- What's the ADF policy with regards to Asthama? I.e childhood asthma or Asthama before age 2 for pilot duties?

Thanks in advanced.

21st Feb 2014, 07:24

Sounds like you have it all figured and have the right attitude. When I joined a decade ago :p I had the same attitude. It was the only way I made it through. Eat humble pie, drink the cool aid when necessary and always keep an open mind.

If you can do that then joining the RAAF will be the best leap you have taken. Good luck!

24th Feb 2014, 21:40
Yeah an hour is definitely best. Haha yeah that guy in the parachute room is a champ, he will do everything he can to sought you out. Also if the instructors see you sitting in the lounge with your helmet on they will know you are serious about getting a spot. They might laugh, but they will know!

Another good tip for this is to do chair flying with partners in the lounges (without the helmets, only do that once lol). Set up one of the big ct4 cockpit printouts in the front of one of the lounges and take turns in partners chair flying and critiquing eachother. The interviewers actually bought up how impressed they were that we were doing this, which just goes to show that the instructors are always monitoring what you are doing.

24th Feb 2014, 22:09
Thanks VS, much appreciated. I can imagine it would be extremely hard to retain info while youíre trying to combat air sickness. I just finished the Wings book and the ADFmentors book so pretty much ready for OSB, just trying to get the flying stuff down now. I will make sure I do a bit of aeroís before I head up there!

26th Feb 2014, 03:03
Thanks Shipper and Gordy, an hour sounds like the way to go. Awesome tip with the chair flying too Shipper, do you get a big CT4 cockpit poster when you get there?

@ Ben Ten Ė Just wondering what the ADFmentors book is? Also I ditto the air sickness advice. I was pretty disorientated the first time I did aeroís.

alec taylor
1st Mar 2014, 04:25
I think there is a misconception in regards to flying time. From the recent few posts and from my application it's evident that picking up bad habits is the biggest reason to not get a large amount flying experience. I believe not having some experience is highly unwise. Your not going to pick up bad habits from any flying school, sure they're not going to teach you exactly how the raaf would but the lessons they teach are still worthwhile. Bad habits start to be.formed when you have your ppl and flying solo in the country, you start to cut corners, not from having less than 20 hours from a flying school. My recommendation to anyone serious in joining the adf as a pilot is flying hours. The.more the better, if you pay for your lessons it shows excellent motivation. If money is a problem I recommend doing aerobatics. Sure you won't get as many hours but the flying itself is more valuable. I would rather have 5 hours aerobatics than 20 hours straight and level. Aerobatics teaches you excellent hands and feet coordination aswell as becoming accustomed to the environment of pulling g and strange attitudes. To recap, get as many hours as possible, preferably aerobatics. Any decent amount of hours, around 10, proves your keen to fly. Bad habits are simply not a concern with such few hours, sure you may have to forget a few things and just do as your told but not much of an issue.

Good luck with all your applications I hope this helps. Cheers, Alec

1st Mar 2014, 17:40
Alec, you should be applauded for doing your best to provide some helpful advice to potential ADF aviators - however, despite your best intentions, not all of what you've offered above, is correct. Unfortunately, it is possible to be taught bad habits at some flying schools, even at an early stage. I do agree that the potential for "cementing" bad habits comes later on in your aviation life (eg PPL as you say) but I have seen some appalling instruction from civilian instructors that would not put a potential ADF candidate in good stead. Granted, this is of course rare, but some of the emphasis that the ADF places on different aspects of aircraft handling (eg aircraft attitude) doesn't get the same emphasis in civilian aviation. Please note, I am being "general", I am sure (and know) there are numerous exceptions.
I think there is a "happy medium" when it comes to previous experience. Yes, I highly recommend aerobatic experience - if only to see if you like it and can manage to do it without feeling insanely sick - don't worry if you do initially, most people do, you need to see if you can get over it!
Failing that, even a candidate with significant previous experience can do well, provided they have the right attitude. (Possible pun intended...)
Unfortunately I have no exact number for the "happy medium" level of experience! Of course it will vary with each individual...
Good luck!

4th Mar 2014, 23:41
Hey ranopaul, basically the ADF Mentors book helps you prepare for the interview questions. I found out about it through a friend thatís a RAAF Pilot. If you google it you should find it.


5th Mar 2014, 09:58
I have been reading this thread for a while now, finally commenting as I have been given a date for my FSP and OSB.

Anyone on this forum heading to Tamworth on the 22nd of March as DEO?

I know I am still in the process however this thread is for advice, so if anyone needs help during their process of the YOU Session, Specialised testing or Assessment session for Pilot, I'll help the best I can if needed. :)

7th Mar 2014, 02:16
Hey guys, first post.

Just wondering who else is going to Tamworth soon?


9th Mar 2014, 01:54
In response to Alec regarding flying hours, any more than 10 hours and you change to the intermediate testing which is significantly more involved. I personally would recommend get as close to 10 hours without going over and do them as close to your FSP course as possible.

I went to FSP last month with just under 8 hours from several years before my FSP, another person had only 4 hours that were much more recent. Our course had 5 recommendations from 6 people, and I know myself and the person with 4 hours have just received letters of offer from RAAF.

12th Mar 2014, 02:36
Hi bek14,

Firstly, best of luck for the 22nd March, I hope it all goes well for you.

I was just wondering if you could tell me how long it was between your Assessment Session and receiving notification of your FSP/OSB date?


13th Mar 2014, 14:22
Hi Ferguson14,

I got back a few weeks ago and between assesment day and the course start date for me was approximately 8 weeks, but that was over the christmas period as well where everything shuts down for about 2 weeks. I heard that they were struggling to get numbers for the FSP courses and out of our group I think we all had 2 weeks notice so make sure you're available. Of course it's also dependant on how well you have performed up until this point as selection for FSP is competitive (I wasn't really aware of that until later.)

I also heard that the distribution pool is quite low at the moment, again not sure how reliable that is but one of the guys on the BFTS course told us.

Good Luck!

Trevor the lover
13th Mar 2014, 17:42
Guys, just a word of encouragement. I joined the RAAF in the late 80s, yep before most of you were born. it was the best thing I ever did. I have been in 4 airlines and now corporate since I left the RAAF. But nothing will ever top military flying, military training, military chicks, the military camaraderie and the life long friendships. I miss it with a passion. Go your hardest, give it your best - you will never regret it.

16th Mar 2014, 05:16

Anyone have info on whether the Army distribution call that was to go out this month has already been completed? A PM or a reply would be appreciated and would be a great relief to know either way. Anxious, anxious.

On a side note, I am a little too old for RAAF at this stage, and am curious to find out what the maximum age of a successful Army pilot application that you are aware of. I'm contemplating focusing on other things for a couple of years and perhaps start the process again when I'm about 28 years of age, so looking at around 29-30 years of age by intake date if I am successful at that point. Would age be a big deterrent for Army?


Very Sneaky
16th Mar 2014, 07:01

Anyone have info on whether the Army distribution call that was to go out this month has already been completed? A PM or a reply would be appreciated and would be a great relief to know either way. Anxious, anxious.

On a side note, I am a little too old for RAAF at this stage, and am curious to find out what the maximum age of a successful Army pilot application that you are aware of. I'm contemplating focusing on other things for a couple of years and perhaps start the process again when I'm about 28 years of age, so looking at around 29-30 years of age by intake date if I am successful at that point. Would age be a big deterrent for Army?

I've spoken to my enlistment coordinator about age; she said that while it is a stated preference, it has very little bearing on their decision to tender you an offer unless you're really pushing the upper end of the age bracket or you've displayed exactly the same potential/skill as another candidate younger than you, AND there isn't room for both of you (which seems to be a very specific scenario, and not one that I can imagine would arise often). I can't speak from experience, but this is what she told me and I have heard of people who are well into their 30s receiving offers for the RAAF. As for the army, the GSO Pilot page (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/jobs/AviationCorpsOfficerGSOPilot/GeneralRequirements/) states: "Applicants must be aged between 17 and 49 years of age inclusive on entry." (for Duntroon candidates, different for ADFA)

18th Mar 2014, 00:58
I can support this claim, I had a chat with a 2fts instructor at the pt cook air show and he said they get late 20s early 30s students through quiet regularly. If you want it - go after it mate!

20th Mar 2014, 10:31
Hi Ferguson14!

Sorry it's a late reply.... I got a call about 2-3 weeks after my assessment session. I leave on the 22nd of March so in total it has been just over a month since my assessment to going for Flight Screening and OSB. As Rivercat mentioned, it all depends on how you and the dossier you sent away are ranked against other candidates. I also didn't know this until recently... I believe it was mentioned somewhere in this thread :)

Best of luck!

21st Mar 2014, 03:12
Hey Bek14,

Did you go through Wollongong DFR by any chance? I've just completed my Assessment Session and received a recommendation, and the staff there mentioned they'd had someone who'd only gone through a few weeks ago getting on to flight screening this week! :D

Good luck!

27th Mar 2014, 04:00
Hi guys.

Long time reader. I thought I'd introduce myself since I have my YOU session on tuesday (1st) and will hopefully be going to flight screening in the coming months. I know a few of you are at tamworth at the moment so I'm hoping there can be a little bit of shared info when you return :)

For the others, does anyone know if there is truth behind these rumors about the RAAF increasing their recommendation score to 4.0? I'm not sure where they stemmed from, but does anyone know the source?


28th Mar 2014, 04:19
Hi Showaard,

The rumour of the increase in RAAF scores has been discussed a number of times on this thread, but I will repeat. Basically, the RAAF is only interested in guys who are capable and interested in going to fast jets, hence they have set the score to achieve this. There is also the 'gate' which means that even though you pass BFTS, that doesnt guarentee you a spot at 2FTS, this is only applicable to RAAF candidates.

Good luck with your YOU session, and additional testing, and assessment day. Hopefully you are all squared away with the medical side of things - from experience, that is where the delays come in.


28th Mar 2014, 06:52
Thanks for your reply gordy. I understand the reasoning behind the change, what I am wondering is whether there is actually any merit behind these rumors and what the sources were.

Thanks also for the well-wishes, I am getting a little bit nervous now about both the YOU and assessment day. Just out of curiosity, how much preparation did people actually do for theirs? I have actually passed the YOU before, back when it was called JOES, about 7 years ago but i can't remember too much about the aptitude questions and such. :ugh: I understand much of this has been discussed before, however it never hurts to get fresh opinions :ok:

31st Mar 2014, 15:23
Hi Showaard,

I went through FSP a few weeks ago and am awaiting an offer and yes the rumours about increased stadards are true and the RAAF is only looking at about the top third applicants in the distribution pool.

From memory YOU Assessment was easy, simple IQ test style questions, nothing to worry about.

Specialist skills assessment was a bit harder and and I think the only prep I did was mental arithmetic.

Assessment day wasn't too bad but lots of prep made it much easier. Know as much as you can about your chosen service and training pipeline and current ADF leaders as well as things such as the defence white paper etc. Also make sure you know what your motivations to join are and display some level of understanding about how your life will differ in the defence force (I encountered these subjects in my Assessment but they do differ.)

PM m if you have any more questions. Best of luck!

alec taylor
31st Mar 2014, 21:29
Regardless of the numerical value required for a raaf distribution you should be focussed on doing your best and striving for a perfect flight. Your not told your scores after each flight so don't get caught up chasing numbers just focus on doing the best you can.

1st Apr 2014, 06:37
Hi malakor1,

Cheers for that info. Had my YOU session today, all went fairly well, just got told to up the hours at work a bit and try to do a bit more team related stuff, however I'm good to continue. :D Only mental arithmetic practice for spec testing? This took me by surprise, I'll definitely PM you when I get my date booked in.

alec taylor,

Of course, you are correct. I wasn't aware you don't get told your score however, you do at least get a debrief though don't you?

Since it is fresh in my mind, if anyone wants more info about what to expect for the YOU session, don't hesitate to PM me.

alec taylor
1st Apr 2014, 07:30
On completion of osb whether it's a recommendation or not they do debrief you on how you went. i.e your flying was good but you kept making the same mistakes or whatever it happens to be. The debrief isn't a you scored a 2 on this flight and a 4 on this flight.

Regardless of your flying aptitude, how keen you are to become a military pilot is probably the most influential factor in receiving a recommendation.

2nd Apr 2014, 02:00
Hey guys,

I got a call from the nurse at DFR this morning. She told me that they would be sending out a letter for me to forward to my GP due to the fact that I took anti-depressants for a few months a few years ago due to a bad break up. I was never diagnosed with depression or anything, however I find myself a bit worried that they might see this as an issue...has anyone had to deal with anything similar? I am not on any medication now and I am a stable and capable individual and it really is like it never happened...perhaps in hindsight I shouldn't have told them? I assume they will just see medical records later down the track anyway, is this correct?

2nd Apr 2014, 03:35
@ Ben_10 Ė I just wanted to say thanks for that info on the ADF Mentors book, I just finished reading it and it was fantastic. Has anyone done their training course?

Unfortunately I sprained my ankle so I had to postpone my flight screening date, I should have stopped playing footy once I got the letter.

@ showward Ė I did a lot of study for the spec testing, make sure you study Distance/Speed/Time questions and fuel questions. And as Malakor1 said mental arithmetic is a big area of focus as well. The more study you do the better you will score, the time requirements are so tight that if you can gain 3-4 seconds on every question, you may have answered 6 more questions by the end. Thatís too bad about your delay with the GP. I know how hard the wait can be but there are plenty of stories on here about people with small health problems etc. that have got through with sheer determination, persistence is the key!

6th Apr 2014, 03:39
Hey Ranopaul,

I did the ADF mentors interview course and it was definitely worth it. I ended up getting a recommendation in the top 1/3rd of the pool and looking back Iím extremely glad that I did the preparation because my OSB interview was the hardest interview Iíve experienced (and probably will ever experience) in my life. Their course is very intense and thorough and if you do decide to take it expect to be mentally drained by the end of it. However, it taught me how to convey all of the qualities and information the Officer Board wanted to see in both the interviews and the group activities. A great course and without a doubt it pushed me into the high rec category.

Thatís no good about your ankle. I have recently injured myself as well and am now waiting on healing up before I start OTS. Good thing you didnít go up on a busted ankle though because some of the CT-4ís rudder pedals are extremely hard to manipulate, especially while taxiing.


15th Apr 2014, 01:38
Well, I got a call on Friday last week from DFR in Canberra. My Service Suitability check came back approved, so onwards and upwards from here.

Yesterday, I had my Application for Australian Citizenship approved, with a possible ceremony date of June/July this year, so that is another tick in the box from my application perspective.

I will also be looked at for an Education Waiver once I am progressing to the next stages.

So time to brush up on the mental arithmetic etc and get cracking for my best shot!

18th Apr 2014, 02:50
Hi all,

I got my call for flight screening yesterday and will be attending from the 10th to 24th May. Is anyone else on this program?

For those earlier on in the application process that are interested in timing, I did my YOU Session in January, Pilot specialist testing in February, Assessment Session in March, and received a phone call from PSA about two weeks after they received my file from DFR. So it seems applicants are moving through the system quite speedily at the moment.

19th Apr 2014, 11:33
Hey all,
I'm new to the forum. I finished and passed Assessment Day last Tuesday and now am waiting for a call to Flight Screening. I want either RAAF fast jets or Navy.
I had a few questions, in particular to those who are currently in the force.

One thing the Psych drilled me about was my motivation for flying. We spent about half of the interview on this; he kept asking "why do you want to be a pilot" and my (main) answer which didn't satisfy him was "I've always wanted to be"-I hadn't really thought about it, I just knew that this was what I wanted. His argument was based on the fact that I hadn't done any flight experience (I'd thought about it but on the RAAF website it says they neither recommend nor do not recommend civilian flight training. As it was expensive and money isn't exactly flowing I'd opted not to do any). However after I managed to tell the DFR interviewer every single detail about ADFA and flight training, he ended up recommending me. I don't know how strongly.

1. Do you think this "motivation issue" would adversely affect my application too much?

2. What are some good reasons to want to be a pilot? All I can think about is that I really really love flying but apparently that's not an answer. What are some of you guys' reasons?
I need some by OSB or I'm screwed...


20th Apr 2014, 11:49
Hi CT,

Sounds like you've done ok so far. Well done. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last to struggle to put into words why you want to fly faster than the speed of sound at low level or perform a rescue in a SeaHawk in heaving seas. But, motivation is a MASSIVE part of your likely success on Pilots Course - so, you do need to be REALLY motivated. If you struggle on course, the first thing they are likely to question is your motivation.
And, to jump through the hoops to get the chance at a crack, you're going to need to give some examples, as you've noted, to convince those assessing you that you indeed do have the motivation to succeed on a VERY challenging and testing course. More challenging these days than went I through, I'm sure. So, the kind of examples you need to think about, need to focus on acknowledging that the road will be tough, but the outcome more rewarding than you can imagine.
Fast jet examples:
- I want to lead a 4-ship of Hornets on a mission - why? The responsibility, the challenge to make it "just right", feeling of accomplishment after a successful debrief and, for the fun of it. I reckon "fun" is a genuine motivation - but perhaps save that for a pilot asking you questions, maybe not the psych.
- I want to conduct air-to-air refuelling in poor weather at night - what a challenge! Single pilot, all the responsibility to ensure a successful refuel or no mission success.
- Chicks dig it.
Navy helo examples:
- I want to drop SF on a drug ship in crap weather which results in the successful apprehension of pirates/druggie scum/etc.
- I want to rescue someone at sea in horrendous weather, keep my crew safe and return at top speed with medical casualties to a tough landing on a pitching deck at night. Who wouldn't want to do that?
- Chicks dig it (but less so than for Air Force pilots...)
You need to live and breath aviation - show you know about everything going on in the RAAF (e.g. MH370 search - how do those crew sound talking to the media about their involvement) or RAN. Overall, think about the things you'd like to achieve as a pilot in the ADF and then think about all the facets that make up such an achievement. Maybe some other current crew can chime in with real life examples of what they've done.
Good luck.
* Disclaimer - "Chicks dig it" - may not be relevant if you're a chick.

20th Apr 2014, 23:55

I wouldn't get too specific with your reasoning. Remember your goal is to be a pilot, but you also need to show that you're going to make a good RAAF Officer above all else.

Things to consider:

You want to be a military pilot, not a commercial pilot, what does the military give you that commercial won't? Teamwork? Set career progression? Stable pay/conditions? Adventure and seeing the outdoors through extra curricular training?

What do military aircraft offer you that commercial won't? Low and fast? Smaller teams of people that you can build solid friendships with and see the world? Unique opportunity to fly some of the best aircraft in the world?

You'll get the best training in Australia and potentially the world. That one speaks for itself.

Whatever reasons you come up with, rehearse them, make them genuine. Make sure they highlight the fact that military is what you want. They want fast jet pilots, not freeloaders trying to get to the airlines. Saying "it's what I've always wanted to do" is valid, but there must be something else there that's really solid, and drives your motivation and eagerness to get through the real crappy times, because you will encounter more then your fair share of them through training!

Good luck.

21st Apr 2014, 05:01
Hi ContinueTesting

I am currently also in the application process, and I think you concerns are valid, however you did get a recommendation so that is a good thing. The reason your psych questioned you a lot about your motivation to be a pilot is because outside your application, you haven't shown any. For me personally, I don't understand why people don't at least try some flying before applying...you claim you love flying but how do you know if you haven't tried it? If successful you will be spending the next few years flying light aircraft before conversion, which is a lot different to being a passenger on a commercial airliner.

Remember, officer first, pilot second. You've been recommended, which means they believe you have officer potential. So my advice to you would be to find your local gliding club and do a few hours in a glider before going to PSA. It's relatively cheap, gets you more comfortable in a small aircraft and should teach you both some basic hand-feet coordination and basic procedures around an aerodrome.

21st Apr 2014, 06:56
Hey Stephlou,

I got the call up as well and will be on the 10th-24th May Flight Screening Program. I'm quietly packing my pants but it will be good to get up there and finally put everything into practice!

See you up there!

27th Apr 2014, 00:42

Just wondering if any applicants from Perth or the southwest have had the call up for PSF 18th-31st May?

Best of luck to everyone currently on course or gearing up to head over.


29th Apr 2014, 01:59
Hey Ferguson14

I think there are only 6 people on that flight screening course (you can check the schedule in the link below) so you may even be the only one from WA!

You are crossing over with the course that RinzleR and I are on though, so we might see you there in your first week :)

Good luck with your prep.

Pilot Selection Agency Flight Screening Program Schedule - Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.airforce.gov.au/Our-People/Careers/Becoming-a-Pilot/Pilot-Selection-Flight/Flight-Screening-Program-Schedule/?RAAF-e9g2z8vIikaumcv6ylDo1q9luRRCcBKo)

30th Apr 2014, 13:40
Hi steplou,

I remember seeing the course schedule and thinking there would have to bit a bit of luck involved for any of the other 5 screenees to be out of Perth. I decided to just put it out there in case there was anyone from this neck of the woods so I could extend an invite into meeting up beforehand - although I'm sure the 7+hr flight over will lend us plenty of time for that.

Best of luck to RinzleR and yourself for your first week of screening, hopefully I can wish you luck for your second week in person.

All the best with your prep!


(I'm sure you're pretty well sorted with everything at this stage of the game but for anyone else in the earlier stages of their DFR adventure for ADF Pilot I've found the ADF Mentors e-pub a great time saver and consolidator of information. Just my two cents! Happy to take PM's from anyone regarding my process up to now.)

2nd May 2014, 03:32
Anyone here pass the test but didn't meet the education requirement?

3rd May 2014, 05:53
At what stage? I had pilot on my yous sheet but had to make up physics and up my maths level....

5th May 2014, 02:20
I've completed year 12 but didn't have the right package e.g not enough majors

Just seeing if anyone is in the same boat/was in the same boat and what did they do.

6th May 2014, 05:34
Not having the right year 12 package. E.g 4 majors etc etc

Just seeing if anyone currently having this problem or had this problem in the past and what alternate route they took.

6th May 2014, 13:00
Hi vjnr,

I was in your boat and passed my specialist skills assessment and did well so it was valid for 3 years (thank god) because it took me another 2 years to get to my assessment day. I was not good enough in mathematics from school so I took a course to bring me to the correct level that was available on open universities. It was really hard to get a direct answer as to which course to complete and I wasted 6 months doing the wrong course based on bad advice from DFR. I eventually spoke to a great officer at DFR Perth who really helped me choose the right course, but it can be funny. I have a bit of knowledge about what is acceptable, if you want more info PM me with what you need to complete and I'd be happy to help direct you.

I started the whole process when I was 23 and now I'm 25 and sitting in the distribution pool with a strong recommendation waiting for an offer, so don't let it deter you!

7th May 2014, 02:05
Similar to myself. I finished year 12 but didn't have a science or 2 unit maths. I did a bridging course for each designed for tertiary entry level (through QUT) and these were accepted by DFR and I was able to progress to the next stage (I think I had to have passes in both subjects before I could do aircrew specific testing - which I passed also) it is very doable!

8th May 2014, 04:50
From the looks of it I might have to go back and do a bit more on my year 12 =( or maybe further studying somewhere

Very Sneaky
8th May 2014, 08:03
I didn't do methods in year 12 and so took a bridging course through open universities. It matched the requirements fine, I just had to get a letter from VTAC stating that it was equivalent to methods (I'm in Victoria, so you might have slightly different requirements).

I found it gave a really good basis, especially for calculus, here's the link if you want to check it out: Fundamentals of Mathematics (http://www.open.edu.au/courses/science/murdoch-university-fundamentals-of-mathematics--mas110-2014). Takes 3 months to complete

10th May 2014, 04:08
Hi everyone. I've been reading through the forums as I am hopefully going to Flight Screening at the end of June and was wondering if anyone who has been through it could provide any pointers for preparation, and if anyone knows where to find a layout of the CT4B cockpit. Thanks

10th May 2014, 09:29
In the CT4? :ok: sorry, couldn't resist! Google images? Although apart from general interest, not sure why you'd need it beforehand .

11th May 2014, 11:00
Figured it'd be good to have a general idea of the layout so there's less shell shock when I get in the cockpit. I've done some lessons and know how disorienting it can be at first. And the Google images results don't show the actual buttons.

12th May 2014, 01:39
HI guys,

Is any one able to tell me what is on the pilot aptitude test, in terms of math or hand eye coordination? I am scheduled to take the test this thursday the 15th of May, but I just want to make sure that I haven't been doing the wrong things for preparation.

If you could help me out that would be awesome.

Thank you,


alec taylor
13th May 2014, 09:04
Researching the cockpit prior to screening isn't necessary. The only things you will need to know is how to use elevator and rudder trim, use of park brake and the joystick. Flight instruments such as vsi, altimeter, asi and the turn and bank co ordinator are really the only instruments used. Their functions are vastly more important than their location around the cockpit. I suggest focussing on basic aeronautical knowledge instead.

Regards, Alec

13th May 2014, 13:05
Hi salamor,

I just passed my second attempt at the aircrew testing today so luckily for you my mind is still fresh on the content. I personally have a few practice tests from paid sources in hard copy form so unfortunately I can't give you those...but I have found some other good sources.

Firstly, the maths is fairly basic and anyone who meets the minimum requirements for applying for pilot should do just fine. That being said, you can find specific examples of very similar time/speed/distance questions here:

Speed/Distance/Time Qs (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501724)

Secondly, there is not really any way to prepare for the hand/eye coordination tests, as they really do test your base skills in that area. However, do make sure you are good with your times tables as part of the test with the touch pen and joysticks involves them. If you have a smart phone or tablet, I suggest downloading an app from GooglePlay or the apple store called GetYourWings by Blue Horizon Enterprises. It has some good practice questions including the hand/eye coord tests.

Lastly, have a read of this from the New Zealand defence force:

NZ Aircrew Aptitude test (http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/sites/default/files/files/An-Introduction-to-RNZAF-Aircrew-selection-tests.pdf)

They use a very similar testing system.

I hope this helps a little :ok:

15th May 2014, 08:48
Hi guys!

I just sat my pilot test for the first time and passed! :O Thanks to Alec and Showaard for your hints and advice, they helped a lot!


31st May 2014, 02:49
Hey guys,
I just received my FSP date. I have a few questions for you all:
- what do you wear while there? and what do you wear whilst flying?
- what is the PT like?
- if I am going primarily for army & navy chopper pilot, should i still read up on all three services?
- could someone explain what is the importance of wearing in your helmet to avoid hotspots??
Any other advice would be awesome as I really want to get a recommended. Thanks for your help!

31st May 2014, 12:54
A hotspot is like if you put a baseball cap on with the Velcro done up too tight. Multiplied by 100. And focused on a spot on your head, not all the way around. And you have to maintain a capacity to fly an aircraft whilst pushing through the pain.

Wearing in your helmet is a good idea because a hotspot will quickly become distracting. The key is when you're fitted, leave it on for a little while. If it's uncomfortable, tell them, and they should play with it and get it to sit better, Life Support Fitters are good at that. Don't feel like you're wasting their time or taking too long, it's important, and it's one thing you don't want to have to worry about whilst airborne because it will detract from you showing your potential.

Good luck

2nd Jun 2014, 13:01
Hi everyone,

Just wondering about the time delay between having your file sent to Canberra and offers coming out. Also how do they contact you if you are made an offer? For anybody interested navy applicants were called today and I think tomorrow for the upcoming distribution with a start date in July I think, probably NEOC 51. I got a call so hoping to hear soon!

2nd Jun 2014, 22:18
Hi guys,

Does anyone know of any courses to prep for OSB and Pysc testing? I would like to do some face to face interview prep before I do the real thing. I live in Brisbane.

Cheers :ok:

2nd Jun 2014, 23:02
Hey Matt, nothing you can really do to prepare for psych except to be sure that you know what is involved in your training and can demonstrate that you are prepared (separation from family, willing to fight for your country, etc)

For OSB, much of the same, be ready to be able to do some reasonably complex calculations in your head while under pressure, know all you can about the role, the training, RAAF in general, world events, etc, etc.

3rd Jun 2014, 03:05
Hi Buckshot,

Thanks for the reply. I am in the RAAF already, so this will be a remuster if I get my chosen service. Are you currently an ADF PLT yourself?

When you say calculations in your head, to what degree of difficulty would they be. For example distance, speed, time calculations and multiplication ect?


3rd Jun 2014, 09:17
Hey mate, sent you a PM, not currently serving, but yeah they generally give you all of those types of calculations.

5th Jun 2014, 03:46
Hi Matt,

Shipper made a post a few months ago about the adfmentors OSB course, definitely worth checking out. I recently took their course after reading their material and seeing a few other people talk about them on here and it was fantastic. It definitely boosted me to the next level of preparation, they conducted a number of mock OSB interviews/exercises and really taught me to answer well under pressure. If you google them it should come up.


6th Jun 2014, 12:47
Hi Guys,

I had assessment day about a week ago and the doctor said I to see a specialist regarding a "systolic heart mumur". I was wondering whether this will impact my application to intact join the ADF or as a Pilot. Thanks


Very Sneaky
7th Jun 2014, 09:21
Hi guys,

This is a bit unrelated to flight screening, but I'm just curious whether anybody here has any idea what the process is and how difficult it would be to switch roles later on in a RAAF career?

My reason for asking is that a recent suggestion made by DFR has been to join as an engineer and then look at possibly going for pilot again later on down the track, and I was just wondering how feasible something like this is. I will qualify this suggestion by saying that I'm currently studying aerospace eng, and it is something I'm interested in doing; so I wouldn't be doing it just for the sake of doing it or as a stepping stone to something else. That said, I do still have a desire to be a pilot if the opportunity is still there.

Could anybody provide some insight?



7th Jun 2014, 22:59
Depends on your long term goals.When I was flying on the C130A,
If you had engineering qualifications you could train as a pilot on the larger aircraft and qaulify as a Captain. Things may have changed since then but if you not inquire then the chance could pass by.

All the best



alec taylor
8th Jun 2014, 01:56
On my FS course there was a current serving aeronautical engineer at Williamtown working on hornets He received a high recommendation and is currently at bfts. So yes it is possible, how you transfer I don't know, DFR will be your friend in that department.

Good luck.

Very Sneaky
8th Jun 2014, 09:12
Thanks guys that's been helpful.



10th Jun 2014, 03:08
Hello everyone!

After having spent a good 2 days reading through the entirety of this thread, I have found a lot of great information. It's great to see such a sharing of knowledge and advice!

A little bit of context... I'm 21, and I'm halfway through a business degree. I have approximately 100 hours of flight experience and I would say I am somewhere between GFPT and PPL. I've always had a passion for aviation, and I've been airborne since I was 14 (which meant some interesting driving lessons involving both pedals!) :E

My YOU session and got a full career option result with 3 year validity, and I have the Pilot Specific Testing next Monday. So far as reading gauges, spatial awareness, or hand-eye is concerned, I feel relatively prepared, and I am doing some extra practice *cough* video games :} *cough*. One thing I'm not fully sure of is the mathematical component, but I am going over my mental flight arithmetic as much as possible.

In any case, I am hoping that next Monday goes well, because I am actually feeling more anticipation for this, than the assessment session! I'd rather have the chance to "sell" myself to actual people than to a computer program! If I'm successful, I'm hoping to go through ADFA. With the "Jump Up" program, I've heard I could potentially get credits from my current studies for their equivalent courses... Alternately, DEO would also be quite appealing, and I have both listed.

One big concern I have though is that I am short sighted, and have glasses (fully corrected). Will this impact on my application?

Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice!


alec taylor
11th Jun 2014, 03:21
Unfortunately any corrected vision is immediate disqualification for aircrew i.e glasses/contacts. If you google avr1, aviation visual requirements 1, the eye sight requirements for aircrew, it should outline cut off parameters. I would recommend seeing a few ophthalmologists and consulting their advice whether you can make these standards. Certain types of laser surgery is allowed, but consult an ophthalmologist for that. I'm currently in the same boat, being held back on enlistment due to an eyesight issue discovered in my post flight screening medical. For your medical on the assessment day they might determine you medically unfit prior to flight screening.

Feel free to send me a pm if you want any further advice.

Cheers, Alec

Bad medicine
11th Jun 2014, 07:18
alec taylor - That advice is just plain wrong. Visual correction (within limits) is permitted for all aviation occupations. Refractive surgery to achieve recruiting limits may also be a problem. PRK and LASEK (not LASIK) are allowable, but it is the pre-operative refractive error that is often the problem. Get the information directly from DFR, not from the internet.



11th Jun 2014, 23:36
Bad medicine - the 'within limits' is the key point here. I think Alec went a step to far when he said 'any corrected vision is an immediate disqualification' but as he correctly stated, you do need to be AVR 1. Here is a link to the standards - http://www.oaansw.com.au/visionstds/ADF_Vision_Requirements_Aviation.pdf

I was deemed medically unfit for all aircrew positions due to my eyesight following flight scrrening. I never wear glasses, but I have a Myopic Astigmatism of -1.25 in my right eye only, perfect in my left. I am corrected to better than 20/20.

alec taylor
12th Jun 2014, 23:13
I will admit perhaps not the best use of words. You have to be at avr1 standard without correction prior to entry. If your eye sight deteriorates whilst trained it is easier for you to have eye sight corrected (with glasses or contacts) than to be scrubbed. Apologies for any confusion.

Bad medicine
13th Jun 2014, 08:02
In fact, you can have correction and still be AVR1. You vision can be 6/12 uncorrected, as long as it is correctable to 6/6 (and your refractive error is within the prescribed limits).

If somebody has told you otherwise, they are incorrect.

18th Jun 2014, 04:56
I think we can all agree that this so called "alec taylor" character has given out some of the worst information in this here thread

alec taylor
19th Jun 2014, 06:34
In all due respect, medical specifications are very complex to fully understand and often vary slightly on the candidates condition. I will admit perhaps I provided information that was not correct , however your comment is neither called for nor constructive. I have tried including relevant information via the forum and personal messages as accurately as I can. We seem to be in the same boat, both negatively affecting this forum, although atleast I acted in good faith.

19th Jun 2014, 09:09
BFTS CT-4B fleet grounded following forced landing. Anyone know about this and/or what impact it will have on current and upcoming courses?

BFTS CT-4B fleet grounded following forced landing | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/06/bfts-ct-4b-fleet-grounded-following-forced-landing/)

19th Jun 2014, 10:53
No effect; as of today they are no longer grounded.

Captain Sand Dune
19th Jun 2014, 20:05
'Temporarily paused flight operations', if you please!! Don't use the 'g' word!!:eek:
Interestingly, that aircraft was flown out by a BAe pilot following the incident on the same day.:uhoh:

21st Jun 2014, 12:19
From what I read the flight controls came free again during the final stage of the forced landing, the pilot elected to complete the F/L. One would have to imagine that after an inspection by ground crew it was deemed safe to fly back to YSTW

21st Jun 2014, 14:01
The final stages being after the wheels hit the ground and unjammed the control run.

Captain Sand Dune
22nd Jun 2014, 00:52
Correct. (and something else in order to make up the minimum characters!)

22nd Jun 2014, 01:41
I don't know about you cooda, but if I were executing a F/L due to control limitations and suddenly everything returned to normal, no matter what stage, I would get that thing on the ground and leave it there. I wouldn't fancy attempting a return to the air field and risk landing using only secondary effects of controls!!

22nd Jun 2014, 03:58

We are in heated agreement regarding the actions we might take if we found ourselves in a similar situation.

I was just intrigued that there is a written report out there suggesting that the controls freed up while they were still in the air. As CSD agrees, that was not the case as I understood it.

22nd Jun 2014, 11:08
My bad :\ read the article again "rectified upon landing"

RAAF investigation into mid-air plane incident | Namoi Valley Independent (http://www.nvi.com.au/story/2347085/raaf-investigation-into-mid-air-plane-incident/)

22nd Jun 2014, 21:55
Hey guys, anyone on here get the call up for the July 19 FSP?

Double Tap
23rd Jun 2014, 02:26
Hey b91,

Congrats on your selection for the July 19th program. I'm actually on the course coming up on June 29th, so hopefully we both get the good news!


24th Jun 2014, 00:14
Double Tap. Check your PM mate

24th Jun 2014, 07:36
hey b91, I got the call up today for the July 19th program, apparently only got in by the skin of my teeth :p

24th Jun 2014, 10:37
Best of luck to you mate. How do you know you only just got in? Better make use of your opportunities :)

25th Jun 2014, 05:18
I had something to attend on both weekends it covers, but they flat out said "you're not very competitive at the moment, you got this offer because someone else couldn't make it, if you don't take it you may not get another"

25th Jun 2014, 09:04
Good work guys, I got the call up for the July 19th program as well. Are you guys basic or advanced?

26th Jun 2014, 02:10
Good work mate.

Just a heads up there are 3 courses on FSP now:
Basic (0-10 hours)
Intermediate (10-40 hours)
Advanced (>40 hours)

good luck!

27th Jun 2014, 12:33
How do the 3 courses differ?

alec taylor
28th Jun 2014, 02:17
Basic has 8 sorties
Intermediate has 7
Advanced has 6

Aswell as covering the basic syllabus intermediate and advanced do barrel rolls. Advanced do low level circuits and extra check lists.

28th Jun 2014, 23:45
Hi guys,

I'm just wondering if anyone has completed the Red Barron FSP CRAM course prior to FSP, or been through with someone who has.

I'd particularly like to know if they felt that it gave them an edge on FSP in terms of being more competitive than others.

4th Jul 2014, 11:07
Hey guys,

Was wondering what kind of backgrounds those of you that have gotten called up for flight screening has. Also how long you guys had to wait from your application being sent through to the PSA to getting a call up for flight screening.
PS. Good luck to all those already in flight screening and to those about to go.

7th Jul 2014, 11:24
Hey guys,

Was wondering what kind of backgrounds those of you that have gotten called up for flight screening has. Also how long you guys had to wait from your application being sent through to the PSA to getting a call up for flight screening.
PS. Good luck to all those already in flight screening and to those about to go.
There are a range of different background. For example on my FSP there were guys with 0 flying hours and two guys with CPL and 200+ hours. Waiting time varies depending on your competitiveness, however I got a call about 2 months after I got all my medical stuff sorted.

Happy to answer any questions through PM if anyone has them.

8th Jul 2014, 06:25
Hi Guys.

Had my assessment day yesterday and was recommended. Need to sort out a few medical issues before my file can be sent away to PSA.

Quick question for anyone who went through with some experience: On the aircrew selection preference form, did you put down any simulator or copilot time under your previous flying hours?

Also, does anyone know when the FSP dates will be up on the website for the 2014/15 FY?


8th Jul 2014, 09:21
Hi Guys.

Had my assessment day yesterday and was recommended. Need to sort out a few medical issues before my file can be sent away to PSA.

Quick question for anyone who went through with some experience: On the aircrew selection preference form, did you put down any simulator or copilot time under your previous flying hours?

Also, does anyone know when the FSP dates will be up on the website for the 2014/15 FY?

Well done on getting recommended!

I myself didn't put down my sim time, but I guess it's up to you. If it was the difference between going from the Basic to Intermediate course, I wouldn't bother.

In regards to FSP dates going up, no idea, however I assume it wouldn't be hard to work out the dates based on previous schedules.

12th Jul 2014, 14:06
All the best for you, hope you have success! Congrats on your upcoming citizenship. You sound eager and keen (as most do here) and I'm sure you'll be a welcome member of the ADF. Cheers.
Joe Lighty
"Nobody's ever died from pressing..."

16th Jul 2014, 10:09
Your age is starting to become a consideration. There is a lot of info on this thread. I suggest you give a lot of thought to the suggestions re tests etc.
The RAAF has more difficulty filling some of the non-pilot positions so they will probably offer you a position related to your IT experience. To counter any non-pilot offer, you may need to have a good reason for them to offer pilot training. One could be that you are interested in eventually instructor flying of drones. If that is the way in, think about it in advance. That would mean about 15 months to get your wings, 3 years on Orions or similar, instructor course perhaps 6 months. Then a couple of years of basic instructing. By that time the RAAF will probably have their own new drones.
Fast jet pilots are reluctantly operating drones. That is your passport, but they will never forget your interest in drones!! I doubt that they would ever put you on fighters.
Read the linked in profile of Jonathan McMullan who is the CO of the drone flight at Amberley. Also search on the internet for his comments at a recent seminar at the Gold Coast.
If you couldn't stand drone operating, try to find another good reason why you must only join as a pilot.
The main thing is to succeed and survive as a RAAF pilot. I joined in 1963. Of the 36 starters, 12 graduated. Within a year two died in aircraft accidents.

18th Jul 2014, 12:31
Slow down a bit. A somewhat more measured approach should be considered. You can show an early interest in aviation without seeming desparate! Remember, you are also going to be an officer.
Work out your preferences in order, eg RAAF pilot, Navy pilot, Army pilot, then work out your non pilot aircrew list. If you don't know the order of your preferences, you won't know how to ask them to re-consider when they suggest you start off as a guard and apply for pilot training later.
Many of my navigators first applied for pilot positions and only a few got pilot training years later. Very few Stores Clerks made pilot, though I do know one.
Take care though. If you fail the course, the RAAF has traditionally offered a discharge. The navy and army might not be like that. You should previously research your alternatives. At my interview in 1962, they asked if I would consider Nav if they couldn't offer pilot training. I simply said no. Reason: pilot should have a measure of control of the situation. Check the first "principle of war" to see what I mean.

22nd Jul 2014, 07:14
Hi everyone, I recently applied for army pilot and was only knocked back becuase of my sitting height being more than 94cm. Apparently you can have this waivered.

Does anyone know of the absolute sitting height limits for army? Has anyone had success with this before?


Very Sneaky
22nd Jul 2014, 08:44
Hi everyone, I recently applied for army pilot and was only knocked back becuase of my sitting height being more than 94cm. Apparently you can have this waivered.

Does anyone know of the absolute sitting height limits for army? Has anyone had success with this before?


I have a sitting height of 97 cm, and while at FSP I was told that if my flying was good enough this would be a non issue if I wanted to indicate Army as a preference. I didn't make it through and so this obviously isn't something that I've seen happen, so take it with a grain of salt! My understanding is that it is flexible, though.

23rd Jul 2014, 13:05
I spoke to two of my RAAF friends who are Aeronautical engineers, if i could transfer at a later stage from non commissioned to commissioned officer. And they said it's possible(even the DFR Sargent said it was possible). So, at least i still have a chance to become an officer in RAAF. They suggested that i join as AEA and work for a few years, get airborne experience and then apply to transfer from AEA to ACO (cause the role is almost similar to ACO). What do you think, should i go for AEA and is there any chance for me to transfer to Officer from AEA? Sir, i really need your help here!!!

Put it this way, on the course before my FSP there was 2 current enlisted guys, on my FSP course there was also another 2 current enlisted and also in the course starting when I left there was 2. From memory they were all RAAF, and in their mid to late 20's (I think one fella was early 30's).

If you are competiteve in the future, I am sure you can get a spot from PSA (Although unless you show considerate improvement from your YOU session aptitude tests, I am not sure how they will treat you).

Good luck.

25th Jul 2014, 05:44
AEA is probably the best kept secret in the ADF.

Great pay (better than pilots for the first seven years), relatively easy job and plenty of deployment opportunities.

There have been a number of AEAs transfer to pilot and done so quite successfully. Age may become a factor down the road, but it is better to get in and start a career rather than wait for one that doesn't materialize.

AEAs join as a SGT. Commissioning requires jumping through all the same hoops you would have to coming off the street. Only difference is you will have proven yourself in the military and aircrew environment.

25th Jul 2014, 06:10
Hi all, I know this is slightly off topic but would anyone know where I could get a copy of the PAARM? (Professional ADF Aviators Reference Manual)

28th Jul 2014, 01:40
Hi Superone

I'm going down to the FSP starting august 3rd. Is that the same as yours?


28th Jul 2014, 12:25
see you there... PM sent

31st Jul 2014, 05:07
The first principle of war is selection and maintenance of the aim. You must decide exactly what you want and do everything possible to achieve this. Part of this might be to decide on an all or nothing approach. An AEA NCO is not exactly a commissioned officer and pilot.
My understanding in 1962 was that it was more certain to be a RAAF pilot from day one, rather than hope for it later. I held this belief during the 8.5 years of my service and my subsequent airline career.
If you cannot hold true to your dream, you will be less deserving of RAAF pilot wings.

1st Aug 2014, 02:09
First of thankyou Dan Smith for the reply, I will definitely be hitting you up for some tips for flight screening. I just got called up for the Aug 30th FSP so if anyone else on here is also in that slot, let us know :)) I'll just briefly talk about a few of the not so much talked about aspects of the pilot application process some of you guyz might be going/to go through. First: I was listed as medical 3R after my DI. Failed the spirometry and the blood pressure test. Upon consultation with specialist and doctor I was listed as fine, in fact they were surprised that I failed. For the spirometry they did not explain what to do properly so I just blew in normally. Don't. Blow like your life depends on it and more, also relax your muscles (let out your gut). Before the medicals I suggest practice blowing into balloons, also eat foods such as dark chocolate to reduce blood pressure jic.

1st Aug 2014, 02:24
Also to note after I handed in my medicals it took three months and four different enlistment co-ordinators (EC) to send the application through to the PSA. Each time I called within those 3 months they were surprised they had not sent it, even though they told me each time prior that they had sent it through. After it was really sent, the PSA took just 3 weeks to give me a date. So my other advice to those still waiting on FSP, keep calling your EC for updates and if they say they sent it, call em up again and again to make sure. Good people, always nice and accommodating, but very-overworked I think. Just be persistent.

Flying Horseman
2nd Aug 2014, 09:14
Hi PPRuNe,

I'm new here and thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Lachlan and I've been lurking ... I mean, following this RAAF Flight Screening Program (Merged) thread for some time now. There is a veritable wealth of information contained here that has already answered many of my questions. To that end, I'd like to offer a big thank you to all the contributors who have given of their time and expertise to help everyone out. It's really appreciated!

I'm in my late twenties and am giving serious consideration to embarking on a new career as a Direct Entry RAAF Pilot. After spending the past 10+ years working various office-based roles, studying for university degrees, gathering life experiences and understanding more about what makes me tick, I believe this would be a huge step in the right direction. I'm currently working in the Advertising industry and it's nigh time for a change.

What draws me to this career is:

- Operating airborne vehicles many dream about;
- Receiving extensive world-class training and support;
- Being part of something bigger in a like-minded team;
- Learning a professional skill used and respected the world over;
- Making a tangible contribution to peoples lives (e.g. humanitarian missions); and
- Being in a predominantly non-office based environment.

I'm at the start of this new journey and am ready for the lengthy and challenging road ahead. There are, however, a few potential hurdles to overcome:

a) No flying experience;
b) Past the preferred 27.5 age requirement;
c) Untested dead reckoning and motor skills; and
d) Mild myopia (short sightedness) of -3.25.

Walk in the park, huh! The last two concern me most and stopped me pursuing this career post high school. Thankfully, I found this thread and have been again motivated to investigate all possibilities, ready for the numerous challenges ahead.

I'll definitely be in need of some advice with questions forthcoming soon, but for now I'll keep gathering the available information and check in when I hit a wall.

Thanks in advance and keep up the stellar work. :ok:

Lachlan (and all its variations ... I love them all!)

3rd Aug 2014, 03:40
Hi All,

Long time reader, great information on here most if it first hand which is always the best info.

Just wondering if anyone can provide some feedback. I recently got through my extra pilot testing after my you session (3rd time lucky). Have been recommended from my assessment day and have handed in extra medical info which I have been cleared for.

I have 50 hours flying time which puts me into the advanced category for FSP. I haven't flown for over three years now.

Does anyone have an info on how this changes how I will be assessed at Tamworth and any tips as to what to prepare for in particular being part of the advanced section.

Cheers Guys

4th Aug 2014, 05:30
Hi Jimmy,

As one of the guys said a few pages back, the only thing that differs between the three courses (basic, int and adv) is that they have different amounts of sorties(so basically as advanced you are expected to learn the stuff quicker than those with less experience). You also need to do a few more things as advanced (from memory I think low level ccts and glide approaches). If I recall correctly, advanced candidates also have to do a stall turn (which is usually the unbriefed aerobatic maneuver for basic and intermediate in the last "check/assessment" flight [some guys on my course had to do a half Cuban eight instead).

You can also use your flight experience as an advantage on your OSB, saying it shows your motivated with flying etc etc

Just make sure you go in with a clear mind, and don't lean back on old habits you may have from your previous flying experience. Make sure you attitude fly and not performance fly.... Oh and don't go to the imperial on the middle weekend :cool:

4th Aug 2014, 13:45
Hi Lachlan,

Good luck with your application. It can be a long process at times but stay focused! Make sure you get started ASAP on your application process as age for RAAF can become an issue as they are screening for fast jet pilots as a priority at this stage. It would also be highly beneficial to score as high as possible in your specialist skills assessment obviously. Keep an open mind about navy and army flying as well as the assessment process is for general ADF pilot entry. I changed my preferences at the beginning of my OSB in Tamworth so don't write those off as options. A lot of the slightly older guys seem to get army SSO, I think one guy in my FSP was 32 and he got into army.

@Pilot Jimmy,

I went in with about 70 hours but hadn't logged one for about 2 years. They have a way of working out what your residual experience is based on the time since you last flew. I ended up on the intermediate course so I'd say you would be the same. I had one less flight that Basic and one more that advanced and was doing things a couple lessons ahead of the basic guys. Definitely focus on attitude flying and really forget about the instruments in terms of angle of bank, straight and level etc and treat things as if you are starting from 0 hours again to some extent. Don't try and use what you previously have learnt because they have their own way of instructing. It's kind of like monkey see monkey where the instructor will show you and then get you to follow it through with them then you try it.

I didn't practice anything else in regards to prep for the intermediate flying, you have a lot of study time and you will be given the flight briefs there so don't stress about flight prep, focus on what you can study for now which is the OSB as you will find you won't have much time to work on that.

Above all else work as a team and have fun, it's a great experience.

8th Aug 2014, 11:15
Hey everyone, I just got accepted into the September 6th PSA FSP session and was wondering if anyone else is headed for that session and if anyone has any advice. Thanks

11th Aug 2014, 07:54
I am on the Aug 30th to sept 13th screen, will see you there :) Congratz

19th Aug 2014, 07:16
Hi all - been following for a while but never posted. I have my ACO OSB tomorrow so any last minute tips would be appreciated.

Then I've got FSP a week and a half later on 30th - any others on this FSP flying up from Sydney?

21st Aug 2014, 11:05
Hey Boltyy, assume ACO -WSO?

Would be great if you can post up once you go through your OSB, let me know what its like (or PM me) I also want to go for ACO-Wizzo, but at 30 not sure if ive left it to late.

30th Aug 2014, 02:28
So I have my YOU Session in three weeks, and after talking to many people everyone is still split on what's best to wear. I understand that it is the YOU Session and the assessment day is more important, however, first impression are what counts right? So, people please don't say I should wear a suit or something... What should a inspiring female pilot applicant wear to their you session? Please help! :) Thanks heaps!!!!!!!!!!!

30th Aug 2014, 22:21
You always want to try to impress and show you are serious, I've seen people show up to YOU sessions in ratty jeans, t-shirts, etc. Definitely NOT the way to go.

You'll only be doing an informal type interview at YOU so I didn't go full suit, just good business type attire is fine.

For Assessment day, and definitely OSB, you definitely want to go with a business suit.

Good luck!

31st Aug 2014, 03:03
Hey Future_Female_Pilot,

You definitely want to go into the YOU Session making a great first impression. Wearing business attire will indicate to DFR that you are taking the process seriously and can conduct yourself in a professional manner. Not being a woman, my experience is pretty limited with female business attire... but maybe an office skirt, blouse and jacket would be a good start. It's surprising how much your interviewers will write down, and being in the minority of candidates wearing business attire (surrounded by candidates in jeans and t-shirts) will help you to shine through.

Unrelated question to anyone in the know... I successfully passed my Assessment day last week and have been asked to complete Aircrew Medicals. I haven't heard anything from PSA as yet and always thought the Aircrew meds came after Flight Screening? Has the process changed recently? It's got me a bit confused :confused:

31st Aug 2014, 10:04
Hi Majestic,

Medicals come first, always have as far as I know (they did 17 years ago at least and I know they still do now).

Double Tap
31st Aug 2014, 10:39
Same happened for me, mate. One thing I've learned is that DFR aren't really on your side, so be persistent with them, they have a lot to do and can takes ages to do things.

I passed my assessment and it was a solid 3 weeks with no contact at all so I called them every day for a week (for some reason nobody at the medical centre ever picked up the phone) and finally got the info I needed. Then they'll just send through all the info you need for your dental, optometry etc...

You have to do more medical testing after flight screening so have fun with that :E

10th Sep 2014, 14:53

My suggestion would be to get onto your DFR about your ophthalmology and dental, which should be the only components left if you have done the medical on your assessment day. It is rare that they will send through your application without you having completed the medical, and it being assessed by AVMED.

Most people are forced to do it pre-flight screening, though some slip through without it, just depends on your DFR. Chase it up yourself and get yourself in, remembering DFR have a tonne of people they deal with, and prompting them to move forward with your application is likely to get you what you want, rather than it remaining in the pile of people they need to contact.

ps. Wear sunglasses to the ophthalmologist, you will not regret it!

11th Sep 2014, 11:38
Cheers for the feedback! Had the dental check the other day at Richmond, just waiting for the ophthalmologist appointment at the end of the month, so I assume - all going well - my file will make its way up to Tamworth early October. My eagerness for flight screening will have to be channeled into some other area for now - further study methinks! :ok:

21st Sep 2014, 02:24
Thanks all for the help :D

Sadly, I wasn't offered officers at my YOU Session, which really upsets me. I've worked so hard for everything I get and the one thing I want more then anything I didn't get. :{ In saying that, I'm going back in March and trying again. So advice for anyone who is going for their YOU Session. It goes to show that this is only the start. DO NOT GIVE UP!!!! I'm not going to tell you it's easy because it's not. And that's the point, they're trying to find the best applicants. Prove your worthiness and remember that you can do anything when you put your mind to it! It's frustrating and annoying. But fight for your place! :ok:

29th Sep 2014, 03:35
Check your personal messages, top right of this page

6th Oct 2014, 01:01
Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone's received an invitation to attend flight screening throughout October? Trying to gauge the liklihood of getting a call before the DEO screenings finish up for the year in November. Obviously I don't know how competitive I am but it would be helpful to see if anyone's been called up for late October in order to vaguely figure out whether I might be called up this year or next. Any insight would be great! Cheers

9th Oct 2014, 04:30
I've got my Assessment Day for RAAF DEO Pilot next week and I'm just after a bit of last minute info. I'm confident with ADF/RAAF Leaders, Values, Engagements, Structure, Aircraft, Bases and Locations. I've also got training such as OTS, BFTS and 2FTS all pretty much squared away. The only thing I'm a little unsure about is some of the ADF Policies and Military Discipline. If anyone has any links to any of this information or any suggestions on what else i should study its all welcome. I'm sure there's answers to all my questions hidden somewhere within the 130 odd pages here but i have not been able to find them.

Cheers in advance

9th Oct 2014, 06:59
Cheers Aximus, I ended up getting a call for the 1st of November FSP too, will see you up there!

Hey Spider01,

They'll likely ask you questions about the Defence Force Discipline Act, which is the legal structure that maintains and enforces service discipline. It covers off areas such as unrestricted service (ADF is free to deploy you wherever they need you to be), operational/combat service (all ADF personnel may be required to deploy to war zones and take part in combat), drug and alcohol policy (zero tolerance for drug/alcohol abuse), initial minimum period of service etc.

I'm not sure if it's covered by the DFDA, but they could ask you about tattoo policy, service allowances and pay, leave entitlements, rental assistance etc. as well.

Might not have covered everything but hopefully that points you in the right direction.

Winged Wombat
30th Oct 2014, 05:52
Just remember, Prior Preparation Prevents P%ss Poor Performance.
Work hard, remember everything, practice till your eyes hurt.

There are no free passes on flight screening:E

31st Oct 2014, 23:40
Hey Guys,

This forum has been invaluable to my prep for my assessment day...

I have recently just passed the assessment day and handed back 2 references + photos etc and was just wondering how long between doing that step did you hear confirmation from PSA that they have received your file...and then how long till you heard what program you got on?

Thanks muchly


5th Nov 2014, 02:16
Hey Folks,

After a bit of a delay with my file, I've finally got my medical clearance. However, my enlistment coordinator seems to think that flight screening doesn't re-start until May next year. This can't possibly be the case? The RAAF used to post the coming years schedule online but have not done so since mid 2014. Just wondering if anyone knew when flight screening generally starts in the new year.

Cheers, Ben

6th Nov 2014, 06:41

Suggest you contact flight screening

8th Nov 2014, 09:19
The minimum height for pilots is 163cm. I'm 161cm. Does anyone know someone who was able to pass selection even though they were a couple of centimetres below the minimum height? Or is it possible to arrange a "cockpit assessment" / reach test? I've read the posts in this thread about people close to the height limits, however these are mostly a few years old.

If it's relevant, I'm especially interested in Navy and Army.

9th Nov 2014, 09:15

Are you going for Direct Entry or ADFA officer entry??

There is more flight screenings this year but they may already be full. I leave for Tamworth this Saturday (15/11/14).

Cheers Jorgia :)

9th Nov 2014, 21:35
Delta, I'm not a medical examiner but I'd expect rules are rules. The rules for 163cm are there for a reason.
I'd try and bulk up, see if a workout diet helps grow a bit

10th Nov 2014, 10:59
Hi guys,

sorry for being slightly of topic.

I did year 12 in Victoria and only studied further mathematics(basic). I called DFR and was told they do not recommend any bridging courses to meet the maths requirement to become a pilot. Does anyone have any courses they would recommend that is equivalent to Unis 3/4 VCE maths methods?


Very Sneaky
11th Nov 2014, 06:58
Hi guys,

sorry for being slightly of topic.

I did year 12 in Victoria and only studied further mathematics(basic). I called DFR and was told they do not recommend any bridging courses to meet the maths requirement to become a pilot. Does anyone have any courses they would recommend that is equivalent to Unis 3/4 VCE maths methods?


I found this bridging course quite good, and I was able to get someone from VTAC to sign it off as equivalent (you'll need to provide a letter with a letterhead from someone appropriate to say that it is).. and it was also all online which was handy for my timetable:

Fundamentals of Mathematics (http://www.open.edu.au/courses/science/murdoch-university-fundamentals-of-mathematics--mas110-2014)

14th Nov 2014, 22:54
Hi guys,

I am booked for the 7th-20th of december flight screening. And I was wondering if anyone has some tips for preparation? I have bought the 'wings' book and the ADF mentors pilot book (which are both being very helpful :ok: ), but what should I be brushing up on? like do I need to know cockpit layouts or start up procedures or anything else?
I am working on my fitness and broadening my knowledge of the defence force and the job as well as ADFA but what should I also be focusing on?



16th Nov 2014, 22:16
Hey Salamor,

Those two books are a good start but don't limit your study to just them. Make sure you have a solid understanding of why you want to be a military pilot - broad statements like "I've wanted to be a pilot since I was a kid..." will not get you across the line (not implying you'd use that, but many people do). You'll need to know what the career of a military pilot entails - I found talking to in service pilots a great insight, whether that be on this forum, out on base visits or even up at Tamworth during Flight Screening - they know exactly what the training demands and can really help you to form an accurate picture.

Make sure you know at least a little bit about all of the aircraft in the ADF (current and future) and a lot about the aircraft you wish to fly (1st choice and 2nd - they will ask...). Have some leadership and military/aviation motivation examples you can give from your life - even if there are none that stand out, many experiences can be shaped in the retelling to demonstrate how you took the lead and made the hard decisions...

Make sure you arrive every day at the crew room with a positive attitude ready to hook in 100%. The time up there is slightly pressured by nature, but it's important that you demonstrate you're enjoying the process - smile and don't be intimidated by the Defence personnel, they were in your position once - have a chat with them if the situation allows :) Also, don't play boardgames (there are many scattered in the BFTS crew room) - use your time to study! Playing games implies you know the material back to front (it's great if you do, just make sure your flying reflects this... you are always being watched...).

Additionally, work together with your fellow Flight Screeners!! I cannot stress this point enough. You will inevitably form strong friendships with the girls and guys on your course - you're all going through a unique and challenging process - but it's amazing how fun it can be when you're all helping one another out and overcoming those hurdles together!

Finally, don't worry about studying checks or cockpit layouts. They are not assessing your ability to fly. They are assessing your ability to learn. It's a strange concept, but they aren't necessarily looking for aces, more so people that can show consistent improvement when learning a new skill.

All the best!!

4th Dec 2014, 12:25
Hi guys,

I am currently finishing year 10 at high school and I have aspirations to be a pilot in the RAAF, I am asking about how the flight screening program works between the basic and advanced courses and on how people are ranked within them?

I am keen to give gliding a go but a bit unsure at powered flying (costs) and the benefits that previous flying experience will have on helping me get through the processes. If it means anything I want to go through adfa after I finish year 12.

The ADFR website wont let me apply yet as I am still 15 but in FEB when I turn 16 I will definitely apply.

Best regards

5th Dec 2014, 05:36
Hi all

I had my assessment session for DE Pilot on Monday and have been recommended for flight screening. I was just wondering if anyone who had been to flight screening had any advice on the best way to prepare?


15th Dec 2014, 04:02
Rhino6 - sorry i just have to do it. This entire forum, whilst dedicated to flight screening, is riddled with both the 'what' and advice on the 'how' of the entire RAAF pilot process. Have a read - the answers will already be there. Spend some time looking through and then by all means ask questions if still required.

17th Dec 2014, 05:22
Hey guys,

I have read this forum until my eyes feel like bleeding and have found some fantastic information. I have recently completed the assessment session and thought I would share my two cents worth. Things went very well until at the end of the day I had to see the medical examiners. This started off with discussing the medical history questionnaire in which you complete at your YOU session. And as of two years ago I had glandular fever. When asked about it, I told the doctor I had it roughly over a year ago.

She immediately typed this down and proceeded to tell me this would be an issue and I may be deemed class 4 (permanently unfit). After realising the ramifications of what I had said, I suitably thought a little harder about how long I had been symptom free - this was exactly 1 year and ten months. But what I said first was taken as cold hard truth and has taken precedence over my official medical history at my local surgery. Luckily, I only have to wait another 5 months until I can proceed to go into the pool for flight screening (a magic number the doctor thought suited). So moral of the story, don't be unprepared like me and not know exact times that you have had any serious sicknesses in the past, because that seemingly harmless conversation could end your career before it even starts.


Also, what happened to hornet boy?!

22nd Dec 2014, 08:35
hamish757, Think about joining the Air Training Corps. the RAAF likes to see your early interest in flight. I believe 3 yrs in the ATC helped my 1962 RAAF DE selection.

23rd Dec 2014, 08:29
How old is too old for Air Combat Officer -WSO (F18f back seat nav) realistically to start?

And also for any pilot role?

Would be good to hear from those completing/completed flight screening if there were any 30+ guys on it in the mix.

27th Dec 2014, 23:59
thanks for the reply I'll consider that.

28th Dec 2014, 00:05

It's a shame though as I am already in my schools Cadet corps and there are restrictions on joining others if you're already participating (I'm in the army cadets).


1st Jan 2015, 00:32

I am asking about how the flight screening program works between the basic and advanced courses and on how people are ranked within them?

You're grouped into one of three levels based on your "residual" flying experience. The documentation explains how this all will work(as well as this thread). Basically the three courses have slightly different syllabi that assume a different starting point. This will all be sorted by PSA from the hours you declare on your sheet, so be honest. As MajesticCasual said, the assessment is not of your flying ability, but rather of your learning ability.

I am keen to give gliding a go but a bit unsure at powered flying (costs) and the benefits that previous flying experience will have on helping me get through the processes.

Everyone in this thread makes different claims here. In my personal opinion, having two hours in the air before heading to Tamworth was very helpful. This also helps to demonstrate some motivation. Gliding experience is counted as half time because it is naturally different to powered flight. I would suggest if you are keen to do it, give gliding a go at the very least.

The previous flight experience will help develop your control skills of an aircraft and build up some instincts on how to "feel" what the aircraft is doing. You'll find the intensive two weeks at FSP will develop these skills markedly.

If it means anything I want to go through adfa after I finish year 12.

ADFA entrants are usually coursed with other ADFA entrants. If you're finishing Year 10 now, you'll want to start your application process at the end of this year so you can go on Flight Screening during a holiday in Year 12. Be mindful that this will be difficult and affect your study, so be prepared.

If you have any questions about the application process, I am all ears. Naturally those who have been on Flight Screening will be tight lipped over the assessment and OSB elements, but everything else is fair game. the guys over at ausmilitary forums have fantastic threads about the application process too. I highly suggest you give them a read.

1st Jan 2015, 00:35

I wouldn't say you're too old, there were guys at BFTS in their 30s for Air Force and Army while we were on Flight Screening. Give it a crack and see how it pans out.

8th Jan 2015, 12:29
Hey Flyingsoon,

Thanks for your reply. I will definitely take up some gliding lessons and give it a go. I feel like there's something about gliding that makes it seem really interesting. From reading about gliding, I think it gives you better control of the aircraft because of the finer inputs required when there isn't an engine and hence I feel like it will actually help me more anyways apart from being a lot of fun.

Thanks for the reply.

Very Sneaky
9th Jan 2015, 00:26
Hi, im sure this question is in here many times but the thread is huge.

What should I be studying for for the specialist testing (pilot) which comes after the YOU session?

Test in a couple of weeks, mainly worried about the maths component. Have not done maths for 7 years - since school.

From what I remember a lot of the questions were time based. If you're worried about maths, my recommendation would be to practice your basic arithmetic (focus on times tables) and approximation skills. Aside from that, my memory is that you need to be able to read and interpret information (gauges) quickly and also conceptualise aircraft orientation. I'm not sure if theres much prep you can do for the latter of these.

25th Jan 2015, 22:01
Hi Taylor

Suggest your contact case manager and confirm your application has been sent to PSA.

27th Jan 2015, 12:47

To be honest I would not recommend it for the cost. The aircraft they will put you in (a Robin) is not a Constant Speed Unit governed aircraft like the CT4B. I would instead recommend getting General Flying lessons from other reputable pilot training organisations, or not at all.

I went in to Flight Screening with very little flying experience (1 sortie) and found that the learning curve is designed so that you are catered for if you have 0 flight experience. The experience of lesson 1 of the CRAM helped me gain an understanding of the aircraft's operation, however it is not worth the cost and provided very little benefit other than the ability to demonstrate motivation.

18th Feb 2015, 13:57
Hi, new to this forum and want to say thanks to everyone who has contributed here. It's a lot to read through but there seems to be plenty of gold in them there hills.

I'm 25, ex-Army. I was unfortunately medically discharged, unfit for infantry due to persistent shin-splints...followed by a period of being diagnosed with depression after having to leave the ADF.

Did quite well back at my YOU session and had all jobs available for application, however I had done General Maths not 2-unit so I thought aviation was off the table (didn't realise I could do bridging courses etc), anyhow it seemed like a dream only fit for those greater than I. Army it was. Set my sights and got on a good course. All was well until it wasn't.

Looking back, as one sometimes does, I have regretted not chasing the dream to fly, as well as questioning the sense in not choosing a role that was potentially more suited to my attributes. (I'm 170cm, 70kg, and apparently somewhat flat footed, but with a good general fitness, focus and a love for learning)

Not wanting to live life wondering, I am going to see if there is any way that I can convince a board to let me in to show what I can learn and do.
Either way at least there may be some closure and I will have tried.

I see my hurdles as:
Medical history:
Physical component - Must determine suitability based on past injury and current status. Pack marching ability / Orthodics may not be such a big issue for aircrew.
Mental component - Must determine what they consider my current status and how long to have gone on fine without medication etc for.

Age - I realise that this window may close on me before I can get cleared for the above issues, depending on how harsh the AvMed Class 1 timeline requirements are.

Education - I will enrol in a qualifying bridging course AERONAUTICAL MATHEMATICS,Mathematics Bridging,Maths Bridging,Physics Bridging,HSC Mathematics,HSC Physics | Aeroscience (http://www.aeroscience.com.au/aeronautical-mathematics/)
(This one looks ok I believe)

In summary, this is a statement of my intention to get back to what I have always felt was right, performing effective service in the ADF.
If there is anyone who can shine a light for me on any of the above points in particular, it would be much appreciated.
Information regarding if I would be uncompetitive on entry or unable to serve in certain capacities would be especially useful. I shall continue reading and searching these forums in the meantime, and pursuing other avenues for direct sources of information.

Regardless, I appreciate your tolerance of the above brain-dump, it feels good to have said it all out loud, so to speak.

Take care, take risks.
- RecoveryMode

19th Feb 2015, 06:39
Recovery Mode.

I would suggest confirming your medical status before putting effort into fixing what is fixable.

I would also suggest that if recruiting indicate that you are not medically fit to pursue all avenues to confirm or overturn.

19th Feb 2015, 09:07
Thanks for the response finestkind.

1. Am going back to all related specialists to determine injury/illness status.
Is this what you mean?

2. Will get in touch with Aviation Medical to see what they think about my chances of getting cleared to fly (class 1)

3. Have contacted recruiting to hear back from their medical side about what they would require in terms of remission, acceptable conditions.
Hopefully they can also give me some indication of how problematic these 'black marks', even if resolved, would be for actually getting selected.

Considering I see my options as either getting cleared and having the chance to fly for the country, or building a time machine to go back and make some changes...you can bet that I'll busy myself doing whatever I can to get a green light. :p

21st Feb 2015, 20:13

Yes basically you need to determine what if any barriers are in front of you so that you can prioritise the show stoppers.
If its medical and there is no way to correct than fixing your academics is not going to help.

22nd Feb 2015, 05:32
Understood, not much sense in jumping over hurdles if I'm about to hit a brick wall.

chute packer
9th Mar 2015, 13:42
Related question, my son is soon to go for his assessment day. He's starting to have second thoughts about joining as an Engineering Officer via the ADFA scheme. Would really like to get in touch with a serving EngO for him to have a talk to about typical career path, work type etc. Located in Perth would be awesome but we'll take what we can get.

12th Mar 2015, 11:11
Hello ojscott,

Last year it took 2 months from when my dossier was complete (including Aircrew Selection Form and other material sent to my EC) till I hit Flight Screening. This was also about 2 and a bit months from when I finished my medicals, however as far as I know medicals can be completed after FSP, some of my fellow Flight Screeners got recommended but then failed the medicals :/

Waiting is the name of the game with Pilot selection. The longest wait will be from recommendation to a potential job offer(if you're recommended and competitive enough!).


22nd Mar 2015, 09:19
chute packer check your PMs - I can help.

25th Mar 2015, 08:17
Im after some opinions regarding previous flying experience and the ADF Flight Screening Process. Im currently working up to my solo license with a few hours under my belt now and have been advised to be careful about doing too much. I understand there are beginner, intermediate and advanced bands for Flight Screening. What is the cut off for each one and how different are they all? I've been told its not good to get lessons because you form bad habbits. Can anyone elaborate on that? Are there any ways to keep flying without logging too many hours? I'm dead keen to keep flying because i love it and dont want to put it on hold until november (assessment day). However, if it is going to be absolutely detrimental to my RAAF application i'll consider it. Cheers!!

26th Mar 2015, 06:14
cheers ojscott

I wouldn't say age "restrictions" as such, but i am aware that age/maturity is a big factor when it comes to Direct Entry pilots. I just think id be giving myself the best chance by being 20. I'm currently employed at 3 jobs to pay for flying, playing 2 team sports, boxing, volunteering and living independently. I think having all that under my belt for more than one year looks a bit better than rocking up as a teenager. I did my first year of a science degree last year (with great marks) and deferred it for this year. I'm open to any suggestions on how to make myself a more competitive candidate. just trying to show DFR i'm made of the right stuff.

The reason i was still going to consider pursuing my PPL is because i want to be able to fly outside the ADF. Do the wings you get after 2FTS mean anything in the civ aviation world as far as licensing goes? or do CASA take no notice at all?

26th Mar 2015, 13:08
cheers ojscott

I wouldn't say age "restrictions" as such, but i am aware that age/maturity is a big factor when it comes to Direct Entry pilots. I just think id be giving myself the best chance by being 20. I'm currently employed at 3 jobs to pay for flying, playing 2 team sports, boxing, volunteering and living independently. I think having all that under my belt for more than one year looks a bit better than rocking up as a teenager. I did my first year of a science degree last year (with great marks) and deferred it for this year. I'm open to any suggestions on how to make myself a more competitive candidate. just trying to show DFR i'm made of the right stuff.

The reason i was still going to consider pursuing my PPL is because i want to be able to fly outside the ADF. Do the wings you get after 2FTS mean anything in the civ aviation world as far as licensing goes? or do CASA take no notice at all?

Of course the training is recognised, it is just planned so it is only recognised after you have commited to your ROSO. That way you can't resign just before 2fts finishes and walk away with all these hours. You will leave with a cpl being recognised by casa at the very least.

When it comes to instrument ratings etc the military does them differently as they dont don't do a broad IFR rating but focus on individual ones for each aircraft and apparently that doesn't translate to a general IFR rating with Casa.

The croc101
27th Mar 2015, 13:53
"...I'm currently employed at 3 jobs to pay for flying, playing 2 team sports, boxing,......."

seriously - don't ever mention BOXING - hits to the head are frowned upon - big time by medicos - you will get ranked lower - if they say you wont be - they're just being polite

only mention bag punching only at the gym - at the most

stay away from the whole contact picture - rings alarm bells


30th Mar 2015, 11:21
Hello everyone,
I've been reading this thread for quite a while now and it has been a huge help. I've completed assessment day and just passed all my medicals. I'm just waiting for my flight screening date (had my assessment day mid feb). Does anyone have any tips for flight screening?
Thank you.

30th Mar 2015, 11:24
Croc101, you said not to mention any contact sports as it will lower my ranking. I was wondering where you've heard this? I've been quite open about myself doing muaythai and mma during the recruitment process...I'm just hoping this won't decrease my chances of getting in...

1st Apr 2015, 00:07
cheers croc i'll certainly keep that in mind! at this stage the boxing is more of a fitness thing. im still looking for more details about the FSP in regards to 'bad habbits learned through previous flying experience' if anyone has any.

5th Apr 2015, 10:38
Hi Spider,
As you've had no other response, I'll try to assist with some examples of 'bad habits learned through previous flying experience'.
Flight Screening aims to assess your ability to learn in the airborne environment, it's not technically an assessment of what you already know. But, if you've been unfortunate to have experienced some well intentioned but wayward instruction, then your ability to put aside what you've learnt previously and take on board what you are being asked to do now, is of paramount importance.

The basics of military flying training revolve around the following, some of which you may already be familiar with:
A-viate - fly the aircraft accurately in the manner you want it flown (climbing/descending/straight and level/turning/whatever)
N-avigate - make the aircraft go where you want it to go to avoid hills/boundaries/CTA/clouds/whatever or to get from A to B as required.
C-ommunicate - talk to ATC/your wingman/duty instructor on the ground/whoever to achieve what you want
A-dministrate - fill in navigation logs, manage fuel balance, etc.
The above is known as ANCA - generally the priority is as above, sometimes you may come up with a reason, for example, to Communicate prior to completing all of your Navigating, but Aviate ALWAYS comes first.

Often whilst Aviating and Navigating, you may find the following bare basics handy:
Am I currently at a:
SAFE HEIGHT? (I'm not going to fly into a mountain)
SAFE HEADING? (I'm not going to fly outside of my airspace or into a mountain)
SAFE AIRSPEED? (I'm not going to overspeed or stall)
Note - I still go through a quick check of the above whenever I am presented with something during flight that is out of the ordinary...

To ensure we Aviate as per the above, we use the following:
A-ttitude (where the nose of the aircraft is pointing - in visual flight this is set by setting cockpit references (like the top of the instrument combing) against the outside horizon)
L-ookout - making sure I'm not going to hit anything/anyone
A-ttitude - we check it again, cause it's very important!
P-erformance - is the power and attitude I have set giving me the performance I want?
This is called the ALAP workcycle and it works when flying visually or when in cloud (well, the Lookout portion, not so much...)
It requires knowledge of the golden formula, which is:
An example for the PC9 is, for straight and level flight:
POWER (32 PSI) + ATTITUDE (zero degrees pitch) = PERFORMANCE (Straight and Level at 200 KIAS).

If we determine that we need to adjust our attitude to give us the performance we want, we do the following:
S-elect - a new attitude that should give us the performance we want.
H-old - that attitude and confirm it does what we want it to do.
T-rim - the forces from the control column/yoke/whatever to ensure there a NO forces left on the controls and continue with the ALAP workcycle.
The whole process above is ongoing.

Anyway, what does this have to do with "bad habits learned through previous flying experience"?
Well, it's possible a student becomes used to PERFORMANCE FLYING - an example of performance flying is reacting by pushing and pulling the stick to "fly the altimeter" in an attempt maintain level. Believe it or not, a military flying instructor would prefer to see an ab initio student attempting to set an attitude correctly and possibly deviating from their desired PERFORMANCE (eg altitude or airspeed), than someone nailing the altitude on the altimeter and not looking at the attitude.
Other bad habits are poor or non existent lookout, not trimming, not following the priorities of ANCA. For some, it can be difficult to change, hence why people talk about these "bad habits".
Personally, I think a small amount of experience is a good thing prior to Flight Screening. Being comfortable upside down in an aircraft can be of benefit - very hard to perform well if you feel sick, which most people do the first time they really throw an aircraft around!

Best job you can have, if you can initially manage the basics and grow from there - all the best!

5th Apr 2015, 23:37
josephfeatherweight! mate that's exactly the sort of stuff i've been looking for! thanks so much, i'll be sure to keep all that in mind during my civ flying. can i ask what your background is in regards to where you got this info?
thanks again, mate. incredibly helpful!

6th Apr 2015, 02:07
I hope the info I provided does prove useful.
If your instructors in your civilian flying have not yet worked out the "attitude pictures" for straight and level, turning left/right, climbing and descending, etc, then it can be difficult for you to apply them if you have to make them up yourself. Best to ask if they use "attitude pictures", even if they are somewhat basic, before you commence training. One of the difficulties is that you must have the seating height exactly correct for the pictures to work. But, even setting a ballpark attitude in a C172 will stand you in good stead - it's the process that's important!
I was fortunate to enjoy a long career in the RAAF as a pilot and especially enjoyed instructing on the PC9 and on operational types.

Oh yeah, I agree with the others, don't mention the boxing...

8th Apr 2015, 23:42
i'll be sure to keep all that in mind. it almost sounds like the RAAF just doesnt want you to become complacent and take the basics for granted. Thanks again, mate

16th Apr 2015, 07:18
I am headed to RAAF flight screening and OSB on the 26th of this month and was wondering if anyone else is also on this course?

18th Apr 2015, 22:52
Hi All,

Has anyone experienced, or heard of, aircrew candidates with Gilbert's syndrome getting med-class 1?

My blood tests for the medical came back normal but with a slightly elevevated level of bilirubin (by-product of bile production in the liver). The DFR Dr thinks it could be Gilbert's Syndrome - it's harmless and doesnt require any medical treatment or care. She hasn't indicated its impact on my application but wants the GP to confirm it.

They are still letting me attend the OSB so it doesn't appear to be a major issue at this stage.

Doing my research the USAF has no issue with Gilbert's syndrome in aircrew and the RAF don't have an issue for serving members (no info on recruits), but I can't find anything for the ADF's view.

I know none of us are DFR Drs so I'm not looking for guarantees etc, but perhaps someone out there has had a similar experience.



19th Apr 2015, 08:15
Hi All,

Has anyone experienced, or heard of, aircrew candidates with Gilbert's syndrome getting med-class 1?

My blood tests for the medical came back normal but with a slightly elevevated level of bilirubin (by-product of bile production in the liver). The DFR Dr thinks it could be Gilbert's Syndrome - it's harmless and doesnt require any medical treatment or care. She hasn't indicated its impact on my application but wants the GP to confirm it.

They are still letting me attend the OSB so it doesn't appear to be a major issue at this stage.

Doing my research the USAF has no issue with Gilbert's syndrome in aircrew and the RAF don't have an issue for serving members (no info on recruits), but I can't find anything for the ADF's view.

I know none of us are DFR Drs so I'm not looking for guarantees etc, but perhaps someone out there has had a similar experience.



I haven't got any experience with regards to your particular case but I can give you some advice when it comes to dealing with Dfr.

I broke my right wrist and had surgery in order to put an internal fixation onto the bone. At one stage it looked as if I would have to have the metal plate removed in order to be class 1 as one particular doctor from the chief medical officers office told my dfr doctor. After much debate and with avmed weighing in and saying they would support a waiver for it they processed my application and eventually was made class 1 with no waiver required!

In short you may get the run around and it may seem that the application won't go anywhere but if you are persistent and make sure you take it as far as it needs to go you give yourself the best chance of a positive outcome. For me that included a class 4 appeal so get all your evidence together and do what you need to do to prove you don't have an issue.

Good luck!

23rd Apr 2015, 01:41
Hey Guys,

Has anyone have any information on the 3 day flight screening that aviation warfare officers undertake?


26th Apr 2015, 20:05
Has anyone been, or does anyone know of, a successful RAAF Pilot candidate who went through Flight Screening with more than 20 hours flying? If so, what, if any, difficulties did you face at Flight Screening that a candidate with little to no flying experience may not have had? At the same time what advantages, if any, did you have over someone who had little to no flying experience? I'm coming to a point in my flying training where i need to seriously think about what is going to give my RAAF Pilot Application a fighting chance. I know it's similar to an earlier post of mine but the more feedback and opinions the better! cheers all

27th Apr 2015, 01:41
Hi All

Just popping my head in... I have started my application for SSO Army... I going to be a retread does anyone know if this is likely to work against me?

I have my YOU session on the 6th of May and have gotten med clearence (so far) to proceed through.

I am a little concerned with my aptitude testing as I am a little rusty but will be working bigtime on the testing examples and any other quizzes I can get my hands on.

I have been out of the military for quite a while now and would appreciate and welcome any advice thrown my way.



27th Apr 2015, 05:53
There are many successful candidates with hours, myself included. I had 70 going in and did very well. Another guy in my screening had 300 and didn't do so well. Two people from the previous group had about 1000 each and did very well.

When it comes to the flight screening flying component they want to purely see your learning rate. You don't actually learn to fly in the traditional sense, the instructor merely shows you a maneuver and you repeat it, monkey see monkey do. But with each flight you should be getting better at the maneuvers and not making the same mistakes.

It's not all about flying either, the board and how you present yourself plays a very large part as well. Yes the flight component is important but your leadership ability and public speaking skills plus your interview performance all combine to give you your total score so don't simply focus on the flying aspect.

28th Apr 2015, 07:44
I had my YOU session around the end of last year.
From what I can remember, it was 75 logical reasoning, predicting patterns, word matching questions, etc and 20 or 25 maths questions.
I would recommend practising as many IQ/logical reasoning questions online that you can get your hands on.
For the maths section, it was about a year 10 maths level I think. Basic algebra, Pythagoras, SOHCAHTOA, basic geometry questions, etc.
I would also recommend practising questions with limited time as I think the biggest reason some people do well and some people don't is the time constraint.
The YOU session was pretty easy though I wouldn't stress. Just do some practice questions, go in there relaxed, and you should be fine :)

28th Apr 2015, 10:36
legend! thanks so much Malakor1

29th Apr 2015, 03:43
Thanks ysdaniels

I have been doing the khan academy quizzes as I need some practice as I am not proud of the results I have been seeing.

As I am a retread the last time I did the entrance exams for the Army they asked me why I wasnt going for officer... Oh how time changes us :rolleyes:

3rd May 2015, 09:26
Thanks Malakor,

I've spoken to the DFR Dr and she said that Gilbert's Syndrome shouldn't have any impact on my application as they have had people get in with it before. She just wants the GP to confirm the diagnosis

It looks like my ACO OSB is coming up mid-May, so hopefully my preparation will shine through and pay off.



6th May 2015, 08:21
I am a little concerned with my aptitude testing as I am a little rusty but will be working bigtime on the testing examples and any other quizzes I can get my hands on.

I have been out of the military for quite a while now and would appreciate and welcome any advice thrown my way.



Happiepants, I'm an ex-Army retread too so the change from when I was 18 is a pretty big one in terms of the testing. I've sat through the new testing and been recommended to OSB for RAAF. The best place I've found for testing prep, particularly additional assessment day for aircrew prep, was ADF Mentors. I used them and they've been a great help so far.

Good luck!


23rd May 2015, 04:10
Hi all, I passed my assessment day back in February and have been waiting for a spot at Flight Screening. Has anyone been given a spot or any info lately? I was given the impression they were trying to force as many candidates through quickly as they could...
Thanks, Philk

26th May 2015, 08:04
Hi all, I passed my assessment day back in February and have been waiting for a spot at Flight Screening. Has anyone been given a spot or any info lately? I was given the impression they were trying to force as many candidates through quickly as they could...
Thanks, Philk

Yeah unfortunately patience is required but that shouldn't stop you from following up with dfr periodically, I had to stay on them all throughout the process. I also rang the pilot selection flight in Tamworth who select the applicants to attend screening, they should be able to give you an indication where you are on the ranking list. It is a competitive process getting to flight screening after all.

On a side note is anybody on here going to officer training in June? I am off next month and it would be nice to know of a couple of names before getting there, pm me if you are!

26th May 2015, 12:21
Hey philk12 I am in the same boat as you. I've been waiting since end of February as well for a date for flight screening. Some people on here seem to have very short waiting periods between assessment day and flight screening. I just hope we aren't waiting so long because we are lower on the ranking list....

2nd Jun 2015, 06:37
Well, I called BAe systems, and they hadn't received my file from DFR... So now that's sorted, I'll hopefully see you guys at OTS or something

3rd Jun 2015, 12:00
Hi everyone!

I have been reading this thread for quite some time now, since the days I was only considering becoming a RAAF Pilot. It has at times, scared me silly, and most importantly, motivated me, always providing a wealth of information for me to seek guidance.

It's pulled me through the YOU session, and assessment day. Yesterday I received my call for a PSF Course from the 4th - 18th July. (ADFA)

I am from WA and was wondering if anyone else is booked for this course, it would be nice to know someone beforehand and break the ice! I know it has been covered before, but also if anyone has recently gone onto FSP and has any top tips regarding getting noticed and the OSB interview.

Good luck everyone, you are all so well informed and this thread has been a lifesaver.

5th Jun 2015, 08:15
I know it has been covered before, but also if anyone has recently gone onto FSP and has any top tips regarding getting noticed and the OSB interview.

Nudie run around the pool...

Out of Vegemite
6th Jun 2015, 02:38
I know it has been covered before, but also if anyone has recently gone onto FSP and has any top tips regarding getting noticed and the OSB interview.

Preparing for your sorties would be a good start. In your instructor asks in the preflight brief a simple question like "what's the attitude for a medium level turn?" or "what's the airspeed in a cruise descent?" and your answer is "I don't know" then you probably shouldn't bother turning up.

8th Jun 2015, 09:56
Out of vegemite,
do the instructors at flight screening expect us to know technical knowledge like that about flying (I know in the OSB there will be a lot of knowledge based questions)? I was under the impression they teach/show us things and see our learning curve and how much we retain. How would one go about preparing for a sortie before they get to flight screening? Not trying to challenge what you're saying, just tying to get as much info as possible for flight screening.


9th Jun 2015, 08:20
Out of vegemite,
do the instructors at flight screening expect us to know technical knowledge like that about flying (I know in the OSB there will be a lot of knowledge based questions)? I was under the impression they teach/show us things and see our learning curve and how much we retain. How would one go about preparing for a sortie before they get to flight screening? Not trying to challenge what you're saying, just tying to get as much info as possible for flight screening.


Don't fret all out of vegemite meant was to know that info for your flight briefs. When you arrive at screening they will give you a file containing information for all the flights. You are expected to prep before each one, I think up to two flights ahead in case they want to make you fly twice in one day.

11th Jun 2015, 03:41
Ahhh I see.
Thanks Malakor.
Just a little nervous about FSP