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oneflewnorth
29th Sep 2010, 07:48
Hi slowlane,

Thanks for the insight. Would you be able to elaborate on how fast jets are over rated/compare to transports etc? One of the questions I meant to ask a pilot at Williamtown was, 'if you could do it all over again, would they still pick fast jets?' so getting some insight from your statement might answer that. Thanks

Congrats Nick, awesome news.

slowlane
29th Sep 2010, 10:35
Hi slowlane,

Thanks for the insight. Would you be able to elaborate on how fast jets are over rated/compare to transports etc? One of the questions I meant to ask a pilot at Williamtown was, 'if you could do it all over again, would they still pick fast jets?' so getting some insight from your statement might answer that. ThanksDon't get me wrong as I was not putting fast jets down, just pointing out that there are many other equally rewarding options out there.

As I said, fast jets simply do not suit everyone. There is a huge work load over about four years to even get fully qualified and then to only get about 20 hrs per month. There has only been one deployment of any aircraft in the strike force since the Korean war where as the Transport, the Maritime and the Helicopter guys have literally been everywhere and continue to go everywhere.

Every type has its challenges and many types have a lot more quality time in many OS locations. Conversely I know quite a few pilots who have specialised in the training environment and had huge job and personal satisfaction.

The other question to ask is where do you want to be 20-30 years later? Maritime or Transport aircraft will set you up much better to get that coveted airline job. That is for two reasons, one of which is similarity of types and roles and the other is the airlines look at total flying time and as I mentioned earlier the FJ people don't get a lot of that.

The other part of the reality is that the military will post you to where they want you and not necessarily to where you choose. (On my pilots course there was one person who got their first preference)

I hope that answers your question.

CoodaShooda
8th Oct 2010, 06:42
Word has it that both Jimh91 and zulk have been recommended.

Now they can look forward to waiting for an offer.

Congratulations and good luck to both of you. :ok:

ant1984
8th Oct 2010, 22:43
That's fantastic news. Congratulations to JimH and zulk!

BBadanov
9th Oct 2010, 03:26
slowlane: There has only been one deployment of any aircraft in the strike force since the Korean war where as the Transport, the Maritime and the Helicopter guys have literally been everywhere and continue to go everywhere.

We get the gist, but not quite true.
1963 - Sabres to Borneo for Confrontation
1965-68 - Sabres at Ubon for Thailand air defence
1967-71 - Canberras Vietnam
2003 - Hornets GWII :ok:

KMC
9th Oct 2010, 03:39
Hi all,

Im going for my specialised testing in a couple of days.

Just wondering if anyone can give me any information about it/ practice questions/ essay info...

Thanks

slowlane
9th Oct 2010, 09:53
We get the gist, but not quite true.
1963 - Sabres to Borneo for Confrontation
1965-68 - Sabres at Ubon for Thailand air defence
1967-71 - Canberras Vietnam
2003 - Hornets GWII

Point taken and apologies.

finestkind
10th Oct 2010, 04:31
Good point BB

Just a quick question though. In any of those deployments did the jet jocks actually do any jet jockying? That is engage any other aircraft in combat?

finestkind
11th Oct 2010, 00:48
No disrespect to the fast jet comunity as I know the lads would love to be out there doing their stuff. However I think the point that SL is making is it is more likely that you will be doing what you where trained for in the trash world, logging more hours and seeing more sights.

Zulk
11th Oct 2010, 05:50
For the guys heading over to flight screening in the coming months, all the information you need is in this thread somewhere. You can't prepare for some of the things they throw at you and that's just PSA's way of determining whether or not you've got what it takes. I personally believe prior flying experience will help the flying side of things; I had ten hours on ultra-lights logged in the last twelve months and didn't do too badly with the flying but there does come a point when you're left to your natural abilities in the air.

As for the fast jet pilots doing what they're trained to do, we had a speech on why the Army and the Navy offer a better opportunity to "use your wings" than the RAAF does and the point the Lieutenant made was the fact that Australian fighter pilots hadn't been deployed to fight other aircraft since the Korean war and are more or less stuck to training the skills and abilities they may never get to use in a hostile environment.

Shonfield
11th Oct 2010, 07:36
I had my spec testing for pilot today. Passed with a band 1 so I am very happy right now. If anyone would like to ask questions I am happy to answer, better to ask while it's fresh in my mind. Time to prepare for assessment day!

Frazzled
11th Oct 2010, 08:53
Zulk - be careful of what recruiting officers say to you especially the green. Read link from Tony360 above.

Besides there is more to the RAAF than fast jets - P3's and C130's have been in the middle east consistantly for a long time, C-17's make a regular appearence. If you go army then and you fly chooks you go to the meao - every year whilst in the squadron, if blackhawk then timor, timor and timor. Go to MRH90/tiger then read your post about fast jets.:O:O

Last year the RAN offered anyone, including those with ROSO the opportunity to transfer to army or resign such was the backlog of people waiting for conversion.:bored:

It's a great start to your flying career but be careful what lines the recruiters feed you.

QJB
11th Oct 2010, 09:42
Hi all,

I should say in advance that I am planning on calling recruiting tomorrow. However can anyone give me some advice on the following:

1/ Is it possible at all to become a pilot in the ADF with asthma? I can't find a definitive answer anywhere.

2/ I did general maths for the HSC, which I very much regret. Are there any courses that the RAAF accept as satisfying the requirements for maths. I am aware that the website refers to equivalent tertiary study, however I assume this means university and thus is not applicable to me.

As I say, I will be talking to recruiting tomorrow but I thought I'd throw these out there and see if they are a 100% no go problems.

Cheers,

J

rhinodriver123
11th Oct 2010, 09:45
Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion of this?

I have my assessment day coming up and I have been thinking over one issue. What would be there view on underage drinking?

I understand they would be against it but honestly, in my opinion, I think you would be hard pressed to find many year 11/12 aged kids that hadn't at least done it once or twice. I fall under this category - I have drunk socially with friends 3 times and I am currently 16 I have always intended to go in to the psych interview and try explain this but I am thinking that while honestly is great it might not be best in this situation. Also in replying please don't tell me how bad it is or that it is illegal etc. It is a decision I have made. Think of when you were 16/17, did you really never drink once?

Help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you,
Rhinodriver123

Shonfield
11th Oct 2010, 09:48
QJB,

Not sure about the asthma, but i believe there are people on here that have done courses at tafe to bring their maths up to standards. Look back through this thread and you should find an answer.

Dilmah G
11th Oct 2010, 11:06
QJB, Have you called DFR? Although they don't have a good reputation in this thread, I daresay it's worth a shot. By the way, this (http://www.racgp.org.au/afp/200911/200911bailey.pdf) might be of some relevance to you.

rhinodriver123: Well perhaps thinking about it a little might help. Looking at it rationally, think about the role you're applying for; a quick google search of 'Military Officer' yields a fair few results relating to integrity, judgement, good self conduct and all the rest of it being qualities desired in Officers.

So applying this to your situation, underage drinking and all of the associated is in the league of poor judgement/self conduct and may be looked upon that way by whoever's doing the talking.

But if asked about it and you admit to it/say it was wrong etc, they may see the integrity and maturity side of what you're saying.

Either way, you can't have been the first person to walk in there whose had something to drink whilst younger than 18.

QJB
11th Oct 2010, 12:16
Shonfield and Dilmah G, thanks alot for taking the time to respond. Dilmah G, that link was very useful thank you, unfortunately the very first paragraph seems to state that the asthma standards for aircrew remain unchanged. All should be revealed tomorrow when I call DFR! I'll let you know their response. Fingers crossed.

Dilmah G
11th Oct 2010, 12:53
No worries mate. :) Hopefully DFR will have the answer for you.

Zulk
11th Oct 2010, 14:23
Frazzled - the word on the fast jet deployment was from the mouth of a Navy Lieutenant that sat on the OSB who was trying to convert the candidates from RAAF to the other two services. The C-130's, C-17's and P-3's have all been quite active but our fast jets haven't been deployed in to an environment which has seen them engage enemy aircraft or have the intent to since, from what I can gather, Korea. Of course if you're flying as apart of the RAAF's air lift and air transport wings you're going to see quite a bit of real action as opposed to the training action you'd likely be involved with for the majority of (if not all of) your career as a FJ pilot, unless of course WWIII breaks out in the next two decades.

CoodaShooda
12th Oct 2010, 00:22
Zulk

I think frazzled thought you were preaching the navy line rather than simply reporting on your experience at Tamworth.

You forgot to mention that you still have the RAAF as your preferred service and that the F/A 18 replaced the C-17 as your first preference after the flight program. :E

QJB
12th Oct 2010, 01:35
Just called DFR, very short conversation. They said they couldn't give me an answer, but seemed to suggest that asthma would be evaluated on a case by case basis. They told me I should go to the recruiting office in Parramatta to get more advice. :ok: Fingers still crossed!

MudRat_02
13th Oct 2010, 04:22
Frazzled - the word on the fast jet deployment was from the mouth of a Navy Lieutenant that sat on the OSB who was trying to convert the candidates from RAAF to the other two services. The C-130's, C-17's and P-3's have all been quite active but our fast jets haven't been deployed in to an environment which has seen them engage enemy aircraft or have the intent to since, from what I can gather, Korea. Of course if you're flying as apart of the RAAF's air lift and air transport wings you're going to see quite a bit of real action as opposed to the training action you'd likely be involved with for the majority of (if not all of) your career as a FJ pilot, unless of course WWIII breaks out in the next two decades.

Our Hornets might be fighters but they're equal part attack, and have been deployed in Iraq in 2003 where they involved in plenty of combat missions, Diego Garcia in 2001 too (though I can't remember what the latter involved).

As for the talk that is given at FSP, I don't think he was so much trying to "convert" people from RAAF to the other services, rather open your eyes to the the bigger picture and the possibilities the other services offer. A couple of the guys on our course only had RAAF as a preference, and after that upgraded them all to most preferred. Mission accomplished! ;)

How'd you fare at FSP anyway, enjoy yourself?

vandelay industries
14th Oct 2010, 10:58
QJB,

I'm currently applying for RAAF pilot and have a history of asthma as a young kid, however in the the last few years it has subsided to nothing. I do a fair bit of sport and never feel affected by it, but I always carry a ventolin inhaler to sport, and occasionally (every few months) use it, just as a precaution really. This put enough doubt in the mind of the doc at my assessment day to not clear me as medically fit, even though I had a respiratory test at a hospital which indicated no signs of asthma:ugh:. So he sent my medical to the aviation medical department in Adelaide for them to make the decision. After about 6 weeks I'm still waiting for their decision. Regardless of the verdict, I'm confident I can fight it and hopefully one day get in.

Just though I'd tell you my encounter with asthma and DFR. Hope it helps you and anyone else in a similar situation

Caity1835
15th Oct 2010, 05:28
Hey guys,

I'm going for my assessment day for RAAF pilot next week and was wondering if anyone can give me any pointers on the defence interview? Do they ask anything about RAAF history or anything like that? Is there a certain area I should focus my study on?

Thanks!

GSXRMCK
15th Oct 2010, 06:58
vandelay industries (http://www.pprune.org/members/331903-vandelay-industries) keep fighting the fight. I myself had to appeal a decision made by AVMED and I finally got approval to continue with my application. Now my app is at PSA and hopefully I'll get a spot on FSP. Fingers crossed I can do ok in Tamworth and hopefully be offered a position (Navy but I'd probably take anything). Small steps though is what I'd recommend with collating your application, also do research yourself and not totally rely on DFR. Specialist reports and examples to prove your fitness would be helpful. Good luck!!

MudRat_02
15th Oct 2010, 08:27
Caity,

There's no point repeating it because the answers are in this thread! If you really want it, have a sift through. :ok:

septerra
16th Oct 2010, 11:27
Howdy fellas,

Been a while since I last posted. Just been occupied with other stuff.

Now, like I mentioned a while back, I completed my recruitment process until the Assessment day interviews and was recommended for RAAF Pilot and SSO Pilot. Since then I have made quite a number of phone calls to DFR regarding my application being sent away to PSA. My current status is 'Permanent Resident of Australia' making me eligible for Citizenship on March next year.

I was told during my YOU session that I would be allowed to progress upto my OSB with my residency and then upon being recommended by the board, will have to wait until applying for citizenship to enlist. All my calls since my Assessment day have provided me with no information as to what my current situation is. All I am told every time I call is that I would not receive a call from PSA until a date that is closer to me applying for Citizenship, like sometime around January. However, I am sure that a few of you on these forums have been able to progress through to the FSP while on a 'Permanent Residency'. Can anyone who has any information regarding this, or anyone who has completed the FSP with a residency shed some light.

Also, can someone please let me know if you receive a confirmation letter when your file gets sent off to PSA - something along the lines of, 'your file is now at PSA and would stay on file for x no. of days,......'. I asked them about this and my case manager replied that she'll refer to a Lieutenant and get back to me, but its been a month and I havnt received a call since. :sad:

Any help is appreciated. This is extremely frustrating since I am unable to get a firm answer about anything.

Best Regards

cj0203
16th Oct 2010, 13:01
You get a letter confirming your file is at PSA, at least I did anyway. I think you are kept on file for 12 months.

septerra
16th Oct 2010, 22:28
Thank you mate.

I have sent an email enquiring about it. Ill probably wait until Tuesday before giving them yet another phone call to enquire about this.

If anyone has done the FSP with a residency, please send a PM as well, just so that I can feel a little confident that this has been done before and I can take the fight to DFR.

Cheers

vandelay industries
17th Oct 2010, 02:09
Thanks for the support and adivce GSXRMCK. Good work on persisting and getting an approval to continue, and getting your file up to FSP. Hopefully that call's just around the corner.

It seems, in regards to my application, that a decison has been made to put me through medical trial for 6 months - meaning my file is on hold till March 2011. I don't know if I'm required to any testing etc. - that's all the info my Case Manager could give me:rolleyes:. So I'll be contacting DFR Medical soon to find out what's going on.

reece.t
20th Oct 2010, 07:24
Hey everyone. This thread has been incredibly helpful and I've done my best to read all of it, but forgive me if I'm asking a question here that has been previously answered!

I recently passed my assessment day to fly for the defence force and currently awaiting a call from PSA to book my flight screening. Words can't express how eager I am to get to Tamworth!

While I'm trying to remain as optimistic as possible, the harsh reality that you aren't guaranteed a spot on the course is hanging over my head like a big black rain cloud.

Does anyone know of any recent circumstances where people have waited for the whole 12 months with their application at PSA and not been offered a place at flight screening at all? Just trying to get a feel for really how competitive it is.

cj0203
20th Oct 2010, 09:17
Not sure about the wait for PSA (It's something like 500 files recieved each year and 250 spots available I read somewhere) but I know of a few at the moment (myself included) who have had or about to have their file expire post successful FSP due to a few reasons, namely Army height change, lack of BFTS courses this year, just a limited number of places it would seem at the moment. I have my assessment again next week to get back to Tamworth for OSB only, a bit of a kick in the teeth to go backwards after all we've gone through but I have no intention to give up although I know a couple who have. It just makes me hungrier for a spot.

Jimh91
20th Oct 2010, 11:42
cj0203, just wondering, did you get told where abouts in the applicant pool you were once you had completed fsp, or did you just get told recommended?

cj0203
20th Oct 2010, 12:03
Jimh91
Nah mate, recommended is all I was told. You are told your flying score but not your board score. I had a quite a good flying score but I guess my board score wasn't as good as I thought even though I felt quite good with the way my OSB went. Guess now I just have to concentrate on nailing that board second time round. :\
How bout yourself, how'd you fare on FSP?

FireBatHero
20th Oct 2010, 12:26
Does anyone recall where you send a request for testing results?

I went through the DFR website again to see if I could find it but I haven't been able to so far.

I do recall it being something about sending a letter to Canberra, but if anyone could direct me to the specific site that had the information, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you

Shonfield
20th Oct 2010, 13:04
FireBatHero,

From memory, at my spec testing they said it was the Director of Psychology at the Department of Defense. They didn't give an address though, they might give it to you
if you call and ask DFR.

AlexanderB
29th Oct 2010, 11:00
I got a call from PSA today... Its a FSP from the 13th November, two days after I finish my last exam. It also looks as though I'll be having my 18th at Tamworth. To say I was stoked would be a complete underestimation.

Good luck for the rest of you guys, keep fighting the good fight and I'm sure things will happen.

junior.VH-LFA
30th Oct 2010, 01:35
AlexanderB, I'll be seeing you there and wishing you a happy birthday! I got my call yesterday for the 13th of NOV as well :)

MudRat_02
31st Oct 2010, 03:30
Congratulations and good luck! :ok:

MudRat_02
31st Oct 2010, 06:44
I'm counting down the days to distribution too, lesnak. I've got my RAAF advent calendar to prove it ;) Congrats on the recommendation as well.

Did PSA mention when the selection date after Nov is? I know the Nov is for a January OTS start, did they mention a January DEO intake too? I wasn't able to find out; I know there was one this year and DFR says there will be next year in Jan and in March, but they're not always on the ball with that sort of stuff.

AlexanderB
1st Nov 2010, 12:13
See you there junior, I can tell this is going to be an interesting two weeks. I'm sure the idea of wearing an orange flight suit will grow on me... hopefully.

Thanks for the congrats guys and good luck with the distribution, christmas might be coming early.

junior.VH-LFA
2nd Nov 2010, 06:16
Mate, if they want to employ me, I'll even consider wearing a rainbow coloured flying suit!

Best of luck to everyone waiting on letters of offer!

MudRat_02
2nd Nov 2010, 06:54
I might have been caught ironing my shirts on the first night while wearing my orange flightsuit :O

...because my bags were lost in Sydney, but I would have been tempted regardless! As for the intake coming up, looks like I'll be just outside the selected cohort, but I'm still hoping. Wish they'd pick up their intakes to the usual level again, I'm getting old while waiting! ;)

cj0203
2nd Nov 2010, 08:28
Me too!
Had my assessment again last week. Recommended again and it was all pretty straightfoward. Think the defence interviewer felt a bit sorry for me and thus took it pretty easy on me! So I guess file back to Tamworth and wait for an OSB slot which I don't think they hold that often. :(

Johnny_Chase
2nd Nov 2010, 09:18
CJ, I only had to wait about 3 months after my second recommendation to hear from PSA... Heading back to Tamworth for OSB in two weeks. Chin up!

cj0203
2nd Nov 2010, 11:10
Good work mate, and good luck. :ok:

J.Dunn21
4th Nov 2010, 11:09
I also got a call this week to attend flight screening Nov. 13, completely stoked :) Looks like ill be seeing junior and Alex there aswell. Good luck to anyone else waiting for the call:ok:

dc3277
6th Nov 2010, 12:46
hey guys

i just joined the forum. im going in for my Y.O.U thing on the 26th of november.
hope i get as far as you guys do.

smoothisfast
10th Nov 2010, 10:11
congratulations to those of you going up on the 13th, i got offered that course however had clashes with uni exams so i got moved to the 20th (i dont think it has helped with the nervousness of the situation). Otherwise i would have been up there with you guys. Good luck, i wish you all the best!

Jorocketoz
12th Nov 2010, 00:35
Congrats to lesnak and NickM91 on being recommended. Also best of luck to AlexanderB and junior.VH-LFA for fsp.

Wag888
14th Nov 2010, 00:30
Hi all,

My husband just found out he made flight screening at the tender age of 40. He started the process on the 15th August so I think he has had quite a good run by the looks of things.

Blood tests are required being over the age of 35 but other than that file has been sent to tamworth. It looks like the next date is January 2011 for DEO.

He would love to fly army but is more then open to Navy or RAAF. He likes the idea of rotary rather than fixed wing. Having had previous army experience he is a tad biased.

We are now considering with zero hours that it might be worth getting some hours flying that being said he is concerned about bad habits.

Anyway we are all very excited in our household!

aus111c
17th Nov 2010, 04:59
Just got the call to go to flight screening Jan 15th, am suitably excited.

makes the application process about 15 months, definitely worth the wait.

:):):):):):):)

Wag888
17th Nov 2010, 07:55
Congrats! Can I ask how long it was between your file being sent to PSA and you getting the call?

Cheers
Liz

aus111c
17th Nov 2010, 09:19
Thankyou,

Yeah no worries, assessment day was early september, I was given confirmation of my file arrivng a month after that. So about 4 1/2 months between assessment day and FSP.

:)

cj0203
18th Nov 2010, 08:28
My wait was around 2 months so that was pretty speedy, just depends on when the next DEO or ADFA courses are. I've heard people waiting almost a year for FSP and unfortunately, some people do not get the call at all, just depends on how competitive you are. Good luck and keep thinking positively! :ok: Even 2 months was a lifetime it seemed for me!!

finestkind
18th Nov 2010, 09:23
Wag888
Congrats to ypur hubby and I hope he gets a spot.

Its a competitive process to get a spot on FSP. Flying hours will help but would more likely be more helpful if he had some time before his dossier was sent to PSA.

Blackbird14
19th Nov 2010, 01:22
Just listened to a voice mail left on my phone offering me a FSP position for January. They must all be out to lunch, because getting someone to answer a phone over in Tamworth seems the impossible dream! Does anyone have any idea about the actual FSP dates for courses in January? The 2011 schedule is not available online as yet...

Blackbird14
19th Nov 2010, 02:02
Aahh OK, finally got in contact with the ever elusive PSA and have been booked in for the 8th of January! PM me if anyone else gets the same slot!

NicKM91
19th Nov 2010, 04:55
It's about time old chum!

I know you'll have a ball up there!

An update on myself, I was told that my file has been sent down to Canberra for selection on potentially one of eight spots. Crossing my fingers tightly, hoping I can secure a position and a starting date. It will be a long few weeks waiting for that call.

Cheers

Zulk
19th Nov 2010, 06:31
Rumour has it that some offers were sent out on the Wednesday just gone (17/11) and that the ADFA course for 2011 will be starting on the twenty-something of January.

Wag888
19th Nov 2010, 07:46
Well after being told his file was on its way to PSA, hubby received a call from the Dr today saying he was medically unfit however he can appeal.

Bascially it is because he was on Lipitor however he was told twice that it was not an issue (it was on the application form).

We picked up his blood test results today - which we were going to send on and low and behold it looks as though his cholestrol is now too low.

Very dissapointed but we are going to appeal the decision so the fights not over yet.

bigglesk
19th Nov 2010, 07:54
Hi guys,
Ive read through most of this thread and found allot of useful information.

I'm heading to Tamworth for the course commencing on the 27th of November and was wondering if anyone who has been there recently could send me some information on what to expect. Also, is anyone else on here going to be on the same course?

I'm really excited about heading up to Tamworth, but I'm unsure how much I am expected to know about the other two services (first preference RAAF). Do I need to know everything about all services or all about the RAAF and have a little knowledge of the other two services? Obviously I'll know the training for all three services, but I'm more wondering whether I need to be able to identify all the Navy ships and name the bases, or just know the ships and bases that have Helicopters etc.

Finally I'd like to say a big thank you to all the contributers to this thread who have made it such a wonderful source of information and made my dream of becoming a pilot in the military that much more achievable.

Thanks
bigglesk

aus111c
19th Nov 2010, 08:34
Wag888: Keep pushing with the appeal, mine was rejected once, then accepted the 2nd time. If you can present them with enough information proving that it won't affect his physical performance it it would help. If you read back through this forum a large proportion of the posts deal with medical issues, and the appeals process.

Hope it helps.

Wag888
19th Nov 2010, 09:23
Thanks aus111c (http://www.pprune.org/members/333629-aus111c) - will keep you posted on how things go!

Blackbird14
23rd Nov 2010, 12:51
Just letting everyone know im currently on flightscreening and ADF has decided the CAP10 will no longer be used as part of the FSP and you will do all 10 flights in the CT4B.




Does this apply to the advanced syllabus?

Captain Sand Dune
23rd Nov 2010, 23:20
Yes. The CAP10 is no longer. It's "unsafe" y'know!:ugh:

Blackbird14
23rd Nov 2010, 23:28
That's a shame, I was really looking forward to flying the CAP10! There must have been an incident or accident for it to be omitted completely, does anyone have the inside word as to why? Captain Sand Dune any ideas??

SR71

Captain Sand Dune
24th Nov 2010, 02:03
Nothing so exciting. Just a monumentally ill-informed decision by the over-paid "experts" down South who haven't flown the aircraft or have any knowledge of FSP ops. I've probably said too much already...........

junior.VH-LFA
24th Nov 2010, 02:48
Don't think just because the CAP-10 is gone the course is any easier. They have changed the level of difficulity in the last 3 rides to compensate.

MudRat_02
24th Nov 2010, 14:27
That's unlucky for prospective flight screeners, the CAP-10 was great.

Junior the point of having the CAP-10 in the syllabus wasn't purely to make the course harder, it was to test how well you can take the skills taught and apply them to a different plane. It may be just as "difficult", but without two aircraft obviously there are certain attributes that won't receive the same attention.

junior.VH-LFA
24th Nov 2010, 22:27
Mudrat, I know exactly what your saying, and I know that was the point of the CAP10, I was just saying that the sequence has been changed because of its removal from the course.

I was looking forward to flying it as well. Oh well, not sure who's decision it was, but it sucks.

oldpinger
25th Nov 2010, 03:39
I'm with Capn Sand Dune! :E Bring back the CAP 10!

aus111c
25th Nov 2010, 07:26
Hey Reece.T I'll see you up there my course starts on the 15th. Good Luck.

NicKM91
26th Nov 2010, 00:23
That's a shame about the Cap-10 no longer being used. While I was up there (16-30/Oct) we heard that we would potentially be one of the last few courses to have the opportunity to fly it.

It's definitely one of the nicer planes I've flown in my limited experience, and I don't think I've had more fun and a more rewarding time in the air in anything else!

One of the instructors had mentioned that there had been a few incidents with the Cap-10, all related to ground handling I believe, but I'm not about to state that's the reason, or the only reason that its being retired.

I'm curious if they will be sold off.

Nick

Zulk
26th Nov 2010, 06:47
I was told it was because of the engine cutting out after certain manouvres which involved a high rate of turning and descent which scared some students and the higher-up folk. :rolleyes: Handling it on the ground became quite fun once one got the hang of it.

Was a fantastic aircraft to fly though.

ellioy
29th Nov 2010, 09:48
While I was on FSP this year, the CAP 10 was grounded for the last 2 days of course due to fuel problems. Our last sorties were cancelled as a result.

It is a shame really, it was such a nice plane to fly!!

Zulk
1st Dec 2010, 07:54
You'll have a friend standing on your feet

15 push-ups, 45 sit-ups and 7.5 on the beep test

Green_pilot_79
1st Dec 2010, 10:41
any tips or iq books you guys recommend for the flight testing passed the intitial iq tests today so going back in a another month for next round of testing. The lady there told me it was amths and on some instruments etc didnt really go that much into it :/

MudRat_02
1st Dec 2010, 23:29
Yeah I had an engine cut out on the CAP-10 during a certain manoeuvre - I'm sure those that have been there can guess which one it was. Only happened to me on the one aircraft though. Apart from that, damaged the tailwheel on my final flight because I flared too soon and dropped her onto the runway pretty hard. A guy on another course at the time also had a problem where he accidentally knocked the fuel valve closed which shut the engine down.

I doubt those were the pressing issue though (surely this is tame in comparison to an operational type or the PC9?), plus it was a very enjoyable aircraft to fly!

Jimh91
2nd Dec 2010, 02:03
Yes Mudrat, I also had the engine cut out during that same manoeuvre, although it just added to the fun of flying it :P Also had some close calls then the park brake had decided to undo itself. Although I don't think this should be any reason to stop using it, the cap-10 was easily the best bit of FSP. No better feeling than pulling 5.5g's through a loop in such a light aircraft, looking up at the paddocks above u, or knowing that the person in the ct-4 waiting for you to taxi past cant stop laughing at you while your zig-zagging along :P

revised_estimate
2nd Dec 2010, 03:11
@Green_pilot_79
First piece of advice: Improve your written communication skills ! Spelling, Grammar and Punctuation would be a tremendous starting point. :ugh: (What is it with young people and their distinct lack of English skills these days !?). No one is perfect, but at least make an effort !

Secondly: Enrol in PATS (Melbourne) and/or purchase the 'ARCO' publication: "Military Flight Aptitude Tests" (Highly recommended !).

You will sit a series of aircrew psychometric exam's - all varying in degrees of complexity & expected outcomes. Most candidates' fail at either the 'Instrument Appreciation', or Mental Deduced Reckoning (Mental Mathematics) examinations.

HINT: Learn how to work out 'rates of change' (Speed/Distance/Time etc) problems very quickly - in your head ! Forget the complex stuff you were taught in the Yr 11/12 Mathematics syllabus (unless you're applying for ADFA of course).
You will need to go back to basics and be able to work out how to multiply & divide large numbers in a short period of time. Orders of Operations and decimal place movement after an operation would be well worth understanding !

Basically: know your stuff and don't leave any element of your brain back at the 'ranch' ! It is a very challenging day for most Candidates'. Don't rest on your laurels.

Captain Sand Dune
2nd Dec 2010, 06:33
pulling 5.5g's through a loop
Ooops:eek:
Shall I tell him, or shall someone else?

cj0203
2nd Dec 2010, 09:10
I think on the Cap10 after 5g's, you're starting to overstress the airframe, but not certain on that one.

4g's is what you're required to do on FSP. ;)

Zulk
2nd Dec 2010, 09:18
From memory, 6g was the limit... or was it 7?

Instructors also need to be wary of students attempting to throttle back and closing the mixture instead :D

Johnny_Chase
2nd Dec 2010, 09:50
Jim broke the CAP10

numbersguy
2nd Dec 2010, 09:59
I just got the call up for Flight Screening on the 22nd of January!!

Any other DEO candidates coming up then?

Good luck to everyone going through all of this process - it can be long and enduring but well worth it!!

cheers

Johnny_Chase
2nd Dec 2010, 10:24
revised_estimate clearly works for/owns PATS :hmm:

1000 bucks to "learn" how to do an IQ test and mental D.R. is the biggest waste of money I've ever heard of. And mentioning grammar and punctuation when clearly you aren't too good at either was lol-worthy. But good luck to you! Obviously many suckers out there and you must be doing well.

Here's a tip: If you think your mental D.R. needs some improvement, then practise! When driving long-ish distances, calculate in your head speed/distance/time calculations; Practise some quick mental calculations e.g counting back from 200 in 7's; On Saturday night when withdrawing from the ATM, see how many $4.60 schooners you could buy for your $70.

There's probably 500 different I.Q. tests available online. Do a few and see how and why each correct answer is so. Learn to figure out the patterns.

YOU day testing is FREE and can be done again and again. Pilot Spec. testing is FREE and can be done again. Clearly some people have too much money for this PATS thing.

Once you've been recommended to FSP, spend your $1000 on some actual flying. This is the best way to get extra experience which will be more fun and invaluable come the OSB. They'll probably be more impressed by this than the attendance at a weekend pilot testing program for suckers.

edit: Just saw it was approx. $3000 for the weekend course :rolleyes:
Any Venture Capitalists present wanting to help me set up a similar "school?"

oldpinger
2nd Dec 2010, 10:57
CSD-Why let the truth get in the way of a good story:ok:
I think it is the sudden unload after the g that would be more exciting, as I seem to remember a certain ex buccannana pilot finding out.:O

Nice aircraft, although I did hear a 'real' aerobatic pilot call it the "Crap 10" a bit harsh...

MudRat_02
2nd Dec 2010, 23:19
Sounds like someone pulled 1.5g's too much! That solves the mystery of the no longer safe CAP-10s :D

I noticed that some screeners were fond of taking it through the grass too, I can't understand why they wouldn't just stick to the taxiway ;)

Jimh91
3rd Dec 2010, 02:31
Haha yes im guilty, I did pull 1.5 g's too much.... in my assesment :O My assessor did find it pretty amusing, and reminded me of the 5.8-6.0G stress limit on the wings oops.

finestkind
4th Dec 2010, 00:02
Good advice to spend some money on flying.

I would suggest though that you do it prior to your file going to PSA. Its a competitive process to get an FSP slot and all your details make up your score. If you send in flying hours after your dossier arrives its not going to look as good as having hours in your dossier when it arrrives.

Shonfield
4th Dec 2010, 07:44
Maybe slightly off topic but I was wondering about this today.

Would some of you guys be keen to share what you wrote on your application form where it said something along the lines of "I want to join the ADF because..."? I'm just curious as to whether people went all out and wrote an essay or something concise.

I can't remember exactly now but mine could be summed up as "I want to fly the F/A-18 Hornet, serve my country and meet some of the best people". I was more formal and elaborated a bit but it wasn't more than 3 or 4 sentences. My thinking was they get thousands to read, they don't want to read another page long response.

What about you guys?

Caity1835
6th Dec 2010, 02:22
Hey guys,

My file is in the process of being sent to psa. It has been like that for a few weeks now and she doesn't seem any closer to sending it off. Does anyone know if this is normal? And how long is the average time before being called to go to PSA?

Also, I was told that they aren't doing any flight screenings until March, but people in this forum are booked in prior to that. I am so confused. Can anyone help?

Thanks heaps!
Cait

aus111c
6th Dec 2010, 05:05
Cait,

I think from memory mine was +4 weeks between assessment day and receiving a letter saying my file has arrived at PSA. Not sure of the average time but you learn to be patient with DFR, they deal with a lot of people.

I am doing flight screening (DEO) in January, Maybe they aren't doing ADFA FSP courses until March, if you are applying for ADFA that could be it.

Good Luck

Caity1835
6th Dec 2010, 05:48
I'm going DEO too, so maybe she was just confused :O.

Thanks heaps! I'll try to be patient ;). Good luck at PSA!

Zeddy
8th Dec 2010, 06:33
From what I've been told by DFR, the first block of FSP's every year are reserved for DE candidates, as the ADFA crew are still at school. Next year, school holidays don't begin until Easter (as per usual) but Easter isn't until Anzac day, so I'm thinking the first four months will be DE after DE...correct me if I'm wrong.

afraid_of_heights
13th Dec 2010, 14:43
First time poster, long time reader. I would just like to say a big thankyou to everyone who has ever posted in this thread! It has been enormously helpful, and unbelievably insightful, motivating and interesting. It is extremely encouraging to see that in a very competitive field, everyone can offer so much helpful information and can be so supportive of one another.

Apolagies if i've missed a post, but does anyone have any suggestions and/or criticism on reading and studying the United States appitute tests? There seems to be a large divide in the difficulty of tests between the Australia and the states, I assume this is because the air force is so much more competitive in the United States(courtesy of Tom Cruise in "Top Gun")?

Captain Sand Dune
13th Dec 2010, 20:19
Apolagies if i've missed a post, but does anyone have any suggestions and/or criticism on reading and studying the United States appitute tests? There seems to be a large divide in the difficulty of tests between the Australia and the states, I assume this is because the air force is so much more competitive in the United States(courtesy of Tom Cruise in "Top Gun")?
Well which air force do you want to join? There's a lot of good information on this thread about becoming a pilot in the Australian Defence Force if you could be bothered looking.

afraid_of_heights
14th Dec 2010, 04:38
Thanks captain! I realise I may have been a little vague. I'm Australian, and I have applid for the RAAF. I am just curious as to if anyone on this thread/forum, has had a look at the United States Aptitude Tests, and whether or not, they are at all relevant to the RAAF aptitute tests. Hopefully that clears things up, thanks.

Nitschke
14th Dec 2010, 09:47
Thanks 'Rene Rivkin'

That kinda of specific info is impossible to come by.

I was wondering would you be able to go in depth into the flight screening board process for me.
This is what i have left of my application process. I have put a lot into reaching this point and i want to make it!

If anyone has any questions of the process up till this point im happy to give you advice.

Hornet boy. I did not rush through any of my questions. I answered as many correct as possible and guessed none. i managed to get through the tests.

afraid_of_heights
15th Dec 2010, 05:36
Thanks Lesnak. I hope I didn't downplay, or seem to underestimate the difficulty of getting into the RAAF. I'll continue to practice on as many flight aptitude tests as I can get my hands on. Thanks for your feedback

allahstare
16th Dec 2010, 04:38
Hi,
I was wondering if I could get any detailed info on the RAAF flight screening program held in Tamworth, as I have been selected to attend in a few weeks time (I have looked at Defence Jobs and the RAAF website). I am aware that there will be an Officer selection Board at the end if the two weeks - What kind of questions will be asked? I am also aware that there will be leadership activities through out the day - any advice on these?

The program is split into two courses - basic and advanced - what are the differences of the two? I have done about 50 hours of flying so im assuming ill be in the advanced course. What are the expectations of those in the advanced course?

Any advice would be much appreciated! :ok:

cheers,
AM

Captain Sand Dune
16th Dec 2010, 07:54
Mate - try this thread. It's on the next page.

RAAF Flight Screening Program (Merged)

allahstare
16th Dec 2010, 12:03
oh, i looked through the first page and didn't find anything that answered my questions - little did i realise that there was actually 85 pages of posts...

L J R
16th Dec 2010, 12:40
Don't worry - I find that with most aircrew fight manuals that I open.:ugh:

Caity1835
27th Dec 2010, 06:51
I have a question... Do you get any information about the aircraft or radio procedures or anything to learn before the course?

Captain Sand Dune
27th Dec 2010, 09:57
Nope. That's the point.

septerra
7th Jan 2011, 12:32
Hello all,

Posting after a break, to update my situation and make a few requests. My application has moved backwards since assessment day. I cleared assessment day, and was later told that my file was sent off to the PSA, or rather I found out that it had been sent off. Now, like some of you already know I am only a Permanent Resident and a few of you have pointed out to me that its possible to complete the FSP without a citizenship. In my case however, I was told that I wouldnít have my file being looked at by the PSA until I had received my citizenship. My file was apparently sent off after a week or so since the assessment day to the PSA, and was held there for about 3 weeks before this was communicated to me [The file would have been sent sometime around August last year to the PSA and I am eligible for a citizenship only on the 8th of March 2011, therefore losing about 6/12 months of the 12 month validity of my scores at the PSA]. I was also offered to have my file recalled from the PSA to be resent after I received my citizenship, from which point my 12 month validity period would restart. I was at a dilemma on whether or not to proceed with the option, but decided to trust my case coordinators advice to have the file recalled, and am grateful that she mentioned that such an option exists. However, my concern is that I never received a confirmation letter from the PSA that my file had been received though it should have been there over three weeks before I decided to have it recalled. This has me doubting if my file was sent off at all in the first place. I hope that things are just the way I was informed they were, and not a complete mess at DFR.

In any case, I have managed to save some green, close to two and half thousand dollars in the hope of being able to obtain some sort of flying experience within the next two months, the record of which I could then attach to my file while it is going to be resent to give it more weight. I was hoping to get some feedback from the very helpful community here on how to go about this, within a strict budget. My internet searches and general enquiries have come up with very vague and expensive results.

Best Regards
Septerra

Caity1835
7th Jan 2011, 21:46
Septerra,

They take a little while to send out letters from psa. I still haven't got mine and they've had my file for almost a month. Granted that was over Christmas, but I was told to expect it later in Jan.

For flying, I did mine for $220 an hour at Tristar Aviation in Moorabbin. There are a lot of schools next door to each other in Moorabbin so it might pay to wander in and ask for their price.

Good luck with everything!

VNE405
8th Jan 2011, 12:54
Septerra,

Take your $2000 and go gliding. Why, because it pure stick and rudder, gives you great judgement, wind awareness and it is cheap. $2000 will get you heaps of airtime. Evan better would be motor gliding. Still cheap and less time waiting for a launch.

If I wish I had gliding time prior to joining 7 years ago. Two of my course mates did and they performed very well.

Think wind

finestkind
10th Jan 2011, 21:45
Sep/Caity,

why not ring PSA?

djwarchild
11th Jan 2011, 01:04
Hi guys,

Long time reader of the forums though never posted. Just wanted to bring a few things up I've noticed and I don't want anyone to take offence or otherwise to them.

First up, from what I can make out, DFR is a joke. Some of you have been lucky to get into flight selection rather rapidly but spare a though for those of us who were cleared and have spent over 7 months waiting (and still waiting) to go down to Tamworth due to incompetence. My case manager basically kept putting off her applicants processing for several months so that someone else could pick up the slack when she went on mpaid maternity leave. I personally chased up my paperwork every week for 2 months with the same response. "It's on my desk, sorry I haven't sent it, I'll do it now." I heard that phrase parroted back to me every week for over 2 months. Then she went on maternity leave and my paperwork was still not sent.

Anyways, another point I wanted to raise, and please don't take offence to this Wag, but, how is it that a 40 year old man with high cholesterol and as such is a high risk for heart disease and stroke, and by inference, leads a more or less unhealthy lifestyle, been cleared for PSA. Now I realise 43 is the cut off age, but, 40 is really pushing it. Assuming he gets a clearance to be a pilot, by the time he's finished training he's extremely close to 50 years of age.

Has anyone else noticed the recruitment drives recently, as well as pilot becoming a priority job again? I personally have several contacts and have been talking to several MPs about this and all have said the same thing. Defence is trying to force people out, not get them in, though you wouldn't know it with all the money being spent on recruitment drives. If A Current Affairs is anything to go by, there are over 400 different types of jobs in the Defence force that need filling which from my understanding is BS. Defence does not have the money nor the resources to keep up with the amount of people wanting to join due to GFC.

Sorry this is a little jumbled guys, I needed a place to rant on my disatisfaction as to the recruiting process. 18 months in the recruitment process, despite my qualifications, life experience, multi-lingual abilities and professional athletic achievements leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth when kids straight out of school and old men are taking less than 4 months to go from You session to flight selection.

There is a lot of other stuff I'd like to bring up but right now I just can't be bothered. I'm extremely disappointed in the state of our defence force recruitment process and it is starting to make me second guess my wishes to join the Australian defence force.

AlexanderB
11th Jan 2011, 01:13
Septerra, definately go gliding. Its all attitude flying and builds good lookouts and stick-rudder coordination. All it takes is a few hours and you'd be in a really good place for FSP.

Been so busy over the past few months but its was all worth it, got an offer for Navy Pilot. If you've got any questions about anything feel free to message me.

finestkind
11th Jan 2011, 11:30
djwarchild,

I know people are concerned about rocking the boat and having their file put at the bottom of the tray but it looks as if you have nothing to lose by asking some pointed questions of the recruiting centre. Remember its your tax money (or parents) that the goverment is throwing at the civilian organisation that is running recruiting. If you have no joy there approach PSA or your local member (they love to get noticed).

Given the amount of info on this site everyone should be aware that if there are no issues it should take no more than six months to have your dossier sent to PSA. 18 months is ridiculous. You need an answer as to why.

Regarding the ADF not wanting people due to lack of money, maybe so but why would that change your desire to get in. They will always need new blood until we stop having an ADF. Given the developments happening in our region I don't see this happening.

flighthappens
11th Jan 2011, 12:27
Hi guys,

First up, from what I can make out, DFR is a joke. Some of you have been lucky to get into flight selection rather rapidly but spare a though for those of us who were cleared and have spent over 7 months waiting (and still waiting) to go down to Tamworth due to incompetence. My case manager basically kept putting off her applicants processing for several months so that someone else could pick up the slack when she went on mpaid maternity leave. I personally chased up my paperwork every week for 2 months with the same response. "It's on my desk, sorry I haven't sent it, I'll do it now." I heard that phrase parroted back to me every week for over 2 months. Then she went on maternity leave and my paperwork was still not sent.:{ Maybe you should have asked to speak to her supervisor, or sent an email with boss CC'd in, or a letter with same(i.e. create a paper trail).

Anyways, another point I wanted to raise, and please don't take offence to this Wag, but, how is it that a 40 year old man with high cholesterol and as such is a high risk for heart disease and stroke, and by inference, leads a more or less unhealthy lifestyle, been cleared for PSA. Now I realise 43 is the cut off age, but, 40 is really pushing it. Assuming he gets a clearance to be a pilot, by the time he's finished training he's extremely close to 50 years of age. Not your problem to worry about brother, why don't you just worry about the factors you can control. IF you get in, that is probably the lesson you want to learn first.

Has anyone else noticed the recruitment drives recently, as well as pilot becoming a priority job again? I personally have several contacts and have been talking to several MPs about this and all have said the same thing. Defence is trying to force people out, not get them in, though you wouldn't know it with all the money being spent on recruitment drives. If A Current Affairs is anything to go by, there are over 400 different types of jobs in the Defence force that need filling which from my understanding is BS. Defence does not have the money nor the resources to keep up with the amount of people wanting to join due to GFC.Not your problem to worry about brother.

Sorry this is a little jumbled guys, I needed a place to rant on my disatisfaction as to the recruiting process. 18 months in the recruitment process, despite my qualifications, life experience, multi-lingual abilities and professional athletic achievements leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth when kids straight out of school and old men are taking less than 4 months to go from You session to flight selection.:D

There is a lot of other stuff I'd like to bring up but right now I just can't be bothered. I'm extremely disappointed in the state of our defence force recruitment process and it is starting to make me second guess my wishes to join the Australian defence force. I'm sure the people currently serving cant wait to work with you.

NicKM91
12th Jan 2011, 05:27
Hi
Is anyone on here starting the IOC at East Sale in early march?

Cheers

Nick

GSXRMCK
12th Jan 2011, 21:28
Djwarchild, yep I completely understand your frustration. It's taken me 18 mths to get to FSP and I'm already in the defence force! However if you really want it bad enough, once at FSP these hurdles are a good indicator for your commitment and motivation for wanting the job. With every negative there is a positive. I am sorry DFR has been a rubbish process for you but even when you are in, if you want something done properly you'll have to do it yourself. Good luck mate, stick with it and hopefully you'll get there soon.

Polymer Fox
13th Jan 2011, 02:03
Hi
Is anyone on here starting the IOC at East Sale in early march?

Cheers

Nick

Yup. 7 weeks of freedom left.

NicKM91
14th Jan 2011, 22:04
Hey, check your pm's

Aussie_Aviator
15th Jan 2011, 15:32
First up, from what I can make out, DFR is a joke. Some of you have been lucky to get into flight selection rather rapidly but spare a though for those of us who were cleared and have spent over 7 months waiting (and still waiting) to go down to Tamworth due to incompetence. My case manager basically kept putting off her applicants processing for several months so that someone else could pick up the slack when she went on mpaid maternity leave. I personally chased up my paperwork every week for 2 months with the same response. "It's on my desk, sorry I haven't sent it, I'll do it now." I heard that phrase parroted back to me every week for over 2 months. Then she went on maternity leave and my paperwork was still not sent.

Welcome to the ADF ! Be mindful that you're not only making application for selection as an ADF Pilot, but also a Commissioned Officer. You should have demonstrated some leadership potential and followed this matter up with the case manager's supervisor or your local member of parliament.

Now I realise 43 is the cut off age, but, 40 is really pushing it. Assuming he gets a clearance to be a pilot, by the time he's finished training he's extremely close to 50 years of age.

Forty (40) is 'really pushing it' huh ? Is that a professional opinion ? What's your basis for this comment ?
Some of the higher scoring student pilot graduates' from both BFTS and 2FTS have included students' in the 37-45 year old age bracket. A number of PLT and ACO students' on my IOC were in their very late 30's. All of them had more tenacity, common sense, dedication, commitment & leadership ability than most of the whinging "Gen-Y's" on course - without exception !!

Defence is trying to force people out, not get them in, though you wouldn't know it with all the money being spent on recruitment drives. If A Current Affairs is anything to go by, there are over 400 different types of jobs in the Defence force that need filling which from my understanding is BS. Defence does not have the money nor the resources to keep up with the amount of people wanting to join due to GFC.

Are you sure about all of this ? Sounds like drivel to me.

... 18 months in the recruitment process, despite my qualifications, life experience, multi-lingual abilities and professional athletic achievements leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth when kids straight out of school and old men are taking less than 4 months to go from You session to flight selection.

Why should "professional athletic achievements" give you some 'edge' or priority in the recruiting process ? Means nothing mate - trust me ! OSB may discuss these "achievements" with you briefly during the interview, but that's about it. Multi-lingual abilities have no bearing either. Great if you're applying to become an INTELO, but otherwise - it's just a 'nice thing to have' ... much in the same vain as being able to play a piano or guitar in the Mess ! :)

ADF selection of "kids straight out of school" is a fact of life. It's no secret: "kids" are easier to mould into the ADF psyche, than say older applicants' who possess significant life experience/s. "Kids" also apparently learn at a faster rate. The peak learning age is allegedly around 25-27 (if you believe the 'dumb bell' theory that is ! I don't.).

Based upon your previous comments, I assume your definition of "old men" encompasses those in the 40 plus demographic ? If that's the case, I can assure you that 40 is NOT old ! The ADF has some very encouraging statistics, which show excellent results in military flying training from these "old men". These guys get through on their own merit, aptitude, abilities and attitude - just like everyone else !

There is a lot of other stuff I'd like to bring up but right now I just can't be bothered. I'm extremely disappointed in the state of our defence force recruitment process and it is starting to make me second guess my wishes to join the Australian defence force.

Sorry, I couldn't locate a 'dummy spit' smily icon !

It you're adopting this attitude now, how do you expect to cope with the rigours associated with Officer training and military flying training ?
I understand you're justifiably disappointed with the ADF recruiting process; however, you really need to take a long hard look at whether the ADF is right for you ? Based on some of your 'attitudes,' I feel you may struggle - particularly during the Officer training phases.

Captain Sand Dune
15th Jan 2011, 20:40
I'm extremely disappointed in the state of our defence force recruitment process and it is starting to make me second guess my wishes to join the Australian defence force.
Defence recruiting was civilianized some years ago. Speaks for itself.
Why should "professional athletic achievements" give you some 'edge' or priority in the recruiting process ? Means nothing mate - trust me ! Correct. Athletic performance has almost no relation to the ability to learn in the air.
Forty (40) is 'really pushing it' huh ? Is that a professional opinion ? What's your basis for this comment ?
Yes.
Yes.
17 years of military flying instruction. What's yours?
Some of the higher scoring student pilot graduates' from both BFTS and 2FTS have included students' in the 37-45 year old age bracket. A number of PLT and ACO students' on my IOC were in their very late 30's. All of them had more tenacity, common sense, dedication, commitment & leadership ability than most of the whinging "Gen-Y's" on course - without exception !!
The older guys certainly do demonstrate tenacity, and they generally accept criticism in a much more mature fashion then their "Gen Y' counterparts. However in my experience the older guys have difficulty learning at the required rate. Put simply it's really a case of "old dogs - new tricks". Don't get me wrong; I really enjoy flying with the older blokes, but in my experience they do not learn as quickly as the young guys. Additionally they come with baggage which can make their management quite a handful.
Some of the higher scoring student pilot graduates' from both BFTS and 2FTS have included students' in the 37-45 year old age bracket.
Yes, those that pass.
ADF selection of "kids straight out of school" is a fact of life. It's no secret: "kids" are easier to mould into the ADF psyche, than say older applicants' who possess significant life experience/s. "Kids" also apparently learn at a faster rate. The peak learning age is allegedly around 25-27 (if you believe the 'dumb bell' theory that is ! I don't.).
I do. In my opinion the ideal candidate is single and 20 - 25. Of course in this politically correct age we are required to accept a much wider range of demographic. Consequently we waste much time, money and effort proving what was common knowledge in "the old days".

VNE405
15th Jan 2011, 23:49
You must learn very quickly to 'hurry up and wait'.

Remember to trim or die!

cj0203
15th Jan 2011, 23:52
In my humble opinion, Everybody's different. Regardless of age, If you want it bad enough and are truly dedicated to the task of putting in the hard work, dedication and "blood,sweat and tears", you can get it. I know, I know, sounds like a cliche, but it's a cliche simply because it's true.

I'm 32 now and know personally that when I was 20, I didn't have enough of those above attributes to pass something like ADF pilot's course. I feel now is the best time for me to accept the challenge. But as I said, that's me, eveybody's different. This maybe the complete opposite case for some 20 year olds or some 40 year olds.

I had a great run in the selection process until after successful FSP where things started to unravel before my eyes but I'm still here and want this even more despite the disappointments. The Hunger grows.

I believe that if you're letting a few setbacks and/or frustrations along the way make you think twice, you don't really want it enough. And that goes for all things in life.

Chris

Aussie_Aviator
17th Jan 2011, 01:21
Defence recruiting was civilianized some years ago. Speaks for itself.

True. Inefficiences associated with 'civilianising' many defence support services is readily apparent. Recruiting is no different. I'm sure we've all heard numerous 'horror stories'. At the end of the day, there are those who persist with the 'process' and those that don't. Good luck to those that do :)

17 years of military flying instruction. What's yours?
Impressive and appreciated. The foundation of your opinions are accepted, valued and certainly not challenged. I'm sure there are many prospective aircrew applicants' on this site who can learn much from your experience and position within military aviation. Clearly, I do not have an instructional background. My opinions are based on personal experience, from let's say - the 'receiving end' :oh:

The older guys certainly do demonstrate tenacity, and they generally accept criticism in a much more mature fashion then their "Gen Y' counterparts. However in my experience the older guys have difficulty learning at the required rate. Put simply it's really a case of "old dogs - new tricks". Don't get me wrong; I really enjoy flying with the older blokes, but in my experience they do not learn as quickly as the young guys. Additionally they come with baggage which can make their management quite a handful.

Agreed. And I'm in no position to question your years of instructional experience or observations relating to rates of learning amongst all student age demographics. However, from a personal perspective - I know that I am actually learning at a far greater rate - at my current age (41), than say, when I was 25. I don't understand why as this is contrary to most accepted psychological/physiological studies and doesn't conform to the 'bell curve theory'. I know I would not have passed CSE as a 19-24 year old.

A number of my friends' who have undertaken PLT CSE as older age students', have found the CSE no more or less challenging than their younger peers and indeed, have at times - struggled with certain parts of the syllabus - much to the same degree as their younger CSE members. Though, all have adapted to and ultimately, enjoyed the unique training methodology.
They too, have all agreed that their rates of learning do not appear to have deteriorated with age.

I agree too, that there are some older students who bring with them, "baggage" - which is only to be expected if they are married and have a family. To that end, I know of two guys who have DOR'd because of family issues. It's a real shame, but that's life !

Consequently we waste much time, money and effort proving what was common knowledge in "the old days".

Clearly, you're in the best position to form such an opinion and one must accept your assessment of this situation.

It will be interesting to view future recruitment trends of 'older' applicants for all aircrew positions and their success/failure rate statistics whilst on course.

The underlying basis of my comments is based on the opinion that I don't believe 'djwarchild' has the professional expertise or qualifications to give a credible assessment of the training risks associated with the recruitment of older applicants on PLT CSE. This is clearly the domain of OSB and those whose charter it is to make such 'risk assessments' and possible subsequent offers for TRG.
Nor do I believe DFR are prioritising or favouring "kids" out of school or older applicant's, over his application alone. On the surface, it seems he has struck an element of "inefficiency" in the system and that is regrettable. However, there are methods by which one can attempt to remedy the situation. Spitting the dummy and chucking a tantrum on a public forum site are clearly not effective methods of redress ! Just my opinion.

Captain Sand Dune
17th Jan 2011, 02:24
Spitting the dummy and chucking a tantrum on a public forum site are clearly not effective methods of redress !
Yeah, but it's funny.:E
Not as painful as chucking tantrums via redress of grievance either.:yuk:

herkman
17th Jan 2011, 03:04
As ex NCO aircrew C130 Loadmaster, I would like to share some results from me observing pilots who have graduated from flying school, but who have a long way to go before they can consider their learning curve has come up on line.

The ADF does not care whether you are an ace pilot or one who is working hard to learn They are looking for attitude and a desire to learn.

Many would be pilots fail because they have not learnt that at least in the Air Force they are looking for leaders first and I suspect that many fail because of lack of this ability and the desire to lead.

Some of the tantrums I have seen on this forum show a lack of maturity, and lack of being able to work through problems to enable missions to be completed. Did you ever stop to think that the reason, even though you may have passed through the first stage, that your application, is that the Air Force is suspects some short coming and is doing this, so you can prove by your actions whether you have it or not.

Someone who is good at problem solving may in actual fact , shine above someone who can fly well, but cannot show leadership and maturity Your methods of over coming what you see as short comings in the system, could make or break what other wise could have been a good application.

Remember well that just because you want it, the government is under no obligation to give you a job and if it does it is on their terms and not yours.

Good pilots are a plenty, and unless you want to spend your career as a senior FLTLT, then you will need to change.

I remember well a very junior pilot coming the bounce with a senior flight engineer, in front of the CO. I watched the W/O conduct himself with great dignity until the time it was for take off.

Out said the CO sit on the bunk. ENG hope in the right seat. ENG did the take off and hand flew the air plane to Laverton, with the CO taking control only on finals.

We had a flight deck debriefing where the CO did the talking and he said. Right now you are not very much use to us, you put the flaps up and down and the same with the gear, and we let you talk on the radio. If you are lucky you will make the grade but you have much to learn. I have been in the Air Force for 25 years and I still do not know as much as the W/O does.

The W/O was one of the simulator instructors and actually had more simulator hours as a pilot than the new co pilot.

The lesson is to use the power of reason and be flexable enough to try another tack if things are not going the way that the like.

For all you know this lass could be doing what she is told, with a bunch of selectors looking over he shoulders for your reaction, and you are sitting there like a a school boy spitting the dummy. You need to change direction or the system will catch you out, think about how I have this problem how am I going to overcome this problem as my efforts right now are good good enough.

I wish you all the best and hope that maybe I have opened your eyes on how to overcome the problem. Show maturity and leadership and you will quickly move up the line.

All the best Col

Captain Sand Dune
17th Jan 2011, 06:06
In todays RAAF the C.P. would have whined to the unit equity officer, resulting in the good WOFF being reprimanded and the CO being counselled by the OC.
This sort of sh!t is almost encouraged in todays ADF.

septerra
17th Jan 2011, 08:18
Caiety, VNE

Thank you for your responses. I just dint have the chance to make an early reply. I had not considered gliding, so I am greatful for the suggestion. A little research showed a much more reasonable expenditure to get some air time, through gliders. I am planning to do this sometime next month. Any suggestions on good gliding schools in and around Melbourne, from those who have tried it before is greatly appreciated.

Its good to know that the PSA takes time to send those confirmation letters out. Ill keep that in mind when my file would be sent off yet again in a couple of months if things go to plan.

Finestkind,

My file has been recalled from the PSA. I was thinking that with many actually having issues tracking down their files while it was at the PSA, the chance of them actually having a record of mine after it has been recalled struck to me as being very slim.

PM's most welcome, and Ill keep my progress updated here.

Cheers
Septerra

spacemantan
20th Jan 2011, 12:44
Havenít posted in a while so I thought Iíd comment on a recently posted rant

Just like anything in life, you have to be prepared to make sacrifices and jump through some pretty horrible hoops. Becoming a pilot in the ADF is no different and can be argued that the sacrifices are greater and the hoops much harder. And Iím only talking about the recruitment process... It gets harder once you are in.

The recruitment process isn't perfect. From recent experience on the inside of DFR I can tell you that there is scope for things to fall through the cracks despite a fairly good database system which includes a strong tracking tool for applicants. The problem ultimately is user error and in some extreme cases laziness. But as an applicant (and this goes for any job in the ADF) you have certain rights and privileges that unfortunately most of you are not aware of. If you feel you are being unfairly treated, your first point of call should be your "case manager", and then through the DFR chain until you reach the Senior Military recruitment officer. If after all that work you don't seem to get anywhere, then take your issues to your local MP and subsequently move up the chain to the Minister.

MINDEF generally does not like hearing stories from applicants being unfairly treated and will always come down hard on the recruitment team involved if there is any evidence of laziness or poor management. He has this power through the contract.

At this point I would like to emphasise that this is not useful if you've sat a test and had been denied a position. i.e. attending a YOU session and not making the grade for pilot. Unfortunately the testing process in DFR is fairly waterproof with a large backing in psychological theories.

I'd also like to emphasise a few points made previously along the leadership line. If you are the squeaky wheel, you will get the grease. It shows leadership and a commitment to the recruitment process. I won't say that subsequent training in the ADF is easier than going through DFR, but once you've made that hurdle, the psychological boost you receive makes a lot of other challenges in the immediate future, a lot easier to bear.

Don't give up, and don't lose hope! The rewards of an aviation career in the ADF far outweigh the relatively short amount of pain you could potentially experience in the recruitment process

Lacho
24th Jan 2011, 02:32
I have my pilot assessment day tomorrow.

In regards to the essay which is conducted, i have heard for example of topics such as

1. Why do you want to serve in the ADF as an officer?
2. What qualities do you think a good officer should have?
3. What personal qualities and experiences do you believe you feel make you a good officer entry candidate?

Would you be required to write on all or just a specific topic.

Thanks in advance to any help

Lacho :)

Aussie_Aviator
24th Jan 2011, 05:46
Good day/evening to you all.

My enquiry relates to the current Defence Force Recruiting (DFR) Aircrew Psychometric Testing format.

When I was processed through the initial aircrew testing day, back in 2004 - DFR used the long standing 'paper' hard copy tests (e.g. instrument appreciation, a/c attitudes, mathematics, etc). Mention was made at the time, that DFR would eventually adopt the 'AUSBAT' format.

A civvie friend wants to apply for ACO and I am trying to assist him with prep-work for aircrew testing. As it has been sometime since I was processed through the 'system' - I was wondering if anyone can advise if DFR are still using the old paper testing format, or has 'AUSBAT' already been introduced ?

I have called DFR, where the civilian I spoke with was quite 'cagey' about the information she provided (which is fair enough). Though, I fear she thought my intentions were perhaps erring on the sinister side !! All above board from my end !! :cool:

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

spacemantan
24th Jan 2011, 11:30
Lacho:

From memory it is just one topic but all three of the questions you posed can be summed up quite nicely in one essay. Just remember the good old days of essay writing in High school. Topic, Introduction, 3 good points and a conclusion.

Don't get too worried about the essay. Essentially they are assessing your ability to write down your thoughts in a coherant way using a high standard of english. The standard you should be at after finishing high school that is.

ant1984
27th Jan 2011, 04:20
Lacho:

How did your assessment day go?

Lacho
27th Jan 2011, 05:45
Thank you spacemantan on your help.

Ant1984 and others,

I had my pilot assessment day on Tuesday and was given some very strong recommendations from both the psych and the defence interviewer, an R2 recommendations in fact.

I was fortunate enough to also be offered a 'backstage' meeting with the commanding squadron leader at the DFRC due to the strong interview recommendations I received.

My advice, I am parroting what others have said before on the thread but just be yourself, prepare well and just let your personality shine, if they wanted monotone robots, they would buy them.

Donít forget to smile, it goes a long way. In addition to this shake their hand, good morning sir/ma'm, common courtesy goes a long way and shows officer potential maturity.

I have had a very streamlined recruitment process so far compared to some stories heard on this thread, but it is all about creating opportunities for yourself (i.e. attending ADFA if you are an ADFA applicant) and showing motivation to succeed.

Good luck to those vying for a spot on FSP and currently in the recruitment process.

Feel free to PM me if any questions.

Lacho :)

spacemantan
27th Jan 2011, 07:03
Ant:

He's probably still in the waiting room :}

spacemantan
27th Jan 2011, 10:44
Bugga, it appears my reply was entirely too late... Oh well the jokes still there. The waiting times for Assessment Days are a bit of a joke

Frazzled
28th Jan 2011, 10:14
Always remember at my Officer InterView Board in the 80"s when asked "as a junior pilot in the squadron what will you be doing when you're not flying."

Totally stumped for an answer all I said was "anything the senior pilots don't want to do." Quickly followed by a roar of laughter.

Didn't really understand until I was a pilot officer in my first squadron where every SLJ came my way - then all became clear.

Good luck to all trying out - it can be frustating but ultimately it's a ball of fun.:ok:

aus111c
29th Jan 2011, 01:38
Just back from flight screening

Advice: Enjoy yourself!!! and work hard.

It is an absolute blast and you will meet some great people.

Nothing can completely prepare you for the two weeks so go there work hard, and have fun.

By the way it is very hot in Tamworth around this time of year.

Lacho
30th Jan 2011, 07:01
Would any contributors to this thread be aware of when the new 2011 FSP program will be uploaded to the ADF pilot Selection Agency Flight Screening Program schedule webpage on the RAAF website.

Thanks
Lacho :)

Captain Sand Dune
1st Feb 2011, 21:33
I did the exact same thing regarding rejecting a RAAF pilot offer at ADFA for this year. Couldn't sign away 15 years and say goodbye to the girlfriend, I just couldn't.
A good example of why the flight screening process works.

NicKM91
2nd Feb 2011, 00:11
I did the exact same thing regarding rejecting a RAAF pilot offer at ADFA for this year. Couldn't sign away 15 years and say goodbye to the girlfriend, I just couldn't.

The decision is made very easy when the girlfriend decides to head to Europe for a year literally a week before officer training commences! :rolleyes:

Captain Sand Dune
2nd Feb 2011, 01:27
The decision is made very easy when the girlfriend decides to head to Europe for a year literally a week before officer training commences!

And hopefully the decision was to kick the b!tch to the kerb!:ok:

aus111c
2nd Feb 2011, 04:16
possibly the best reply I have read on this page, ever. :D

MudRat_02
3rd Feb 2011, 11:31
If she doesn't run on JP-5 she probably isn't worth it Tony ;)

oldpinger
3rd Feb 2011, 18:59
CSD
Still got it I see!:D

Coffee mug still in service as well???:E

finestkind
3rd Feb 2011, 20:18
Your either a follower or a leader and that applies to relationships.

Obviously the balls to make the decision didn't match the maturity to do so prior to FSP and therefore take the spot of someone else.

Obviously the balls are being held in some one hands other than the owners.

Radithor
4th Feb 2011, 01:02
So you weren't the bloke that left FSP early then Tony360?

marguerita
4th Feb 2011, 10:30
Septerra - gliding is a good option for a number of reasons with price certainly being up there. However from a selection view-point it's regarded well as it demands quite a bit of time from you. Anyone with cash can throw dollars at a cessna school, turn up, fly and walk away; a few glider flights often require a full day at an airfield assuming you're going to a self help club. A log book with gliding solo and more indicates a real commitment to flying. Quite aside from the fact that you tend to become an empathic pilot in the long run.

The temptation to pass comment on girlfriends and being hard done by with delays is huge - but I'll resist!!

oldpinger
4th Feb 2011, 11:00
I did see someone self suspend because her boyfriend wasn't happy:E

Goes to show defence is an equal opportunities employer!!:ok:

ozbiggles
4th Feb 2011, 12:33
One of the top 5 bits of advice I ever got...
If a woman ever says it me or the job
Take the job, the woman's already gone.

Shonfield
5th Feb 2011, 12:14
A teacher at my school was a clearance diver and was originally accepted into the Navy as a pilot. I was chatting to him yesterday and he was saying that there are allowances paid to pilots (and others) such as qualified allowance and flying allowance. They were substantial extra amounts so I assume this is something I would be expected to have researched as a part of the pay for my assessment day, yet I can find no mention of these allowances on defencejobs or the individual service websites. Does anyone have any information about these?

Thanks!
Sam

Dilmah G
5th Feb 2011, 12:21
Hey Shonfield, are you sure about that, mate?

I hopped on the site to check and found this (http://content.defencejobs.gov.au/pdf/triservice/DFT_Document_PayRates.pdf) link under pay and allowances for Pilot. Scroll down a little bit and you'll find what you're looking for.

Shonfield
6th Feb 2011, 05:08
Guess I didn't look hard enough... :O:ugh::ugh:

Thank You!

Caity1835
7th Feb 2011, 21:59
Hey,

Just got the call for PSA on March 5th! Anyone else on that course???

Cait

septerra
8th Feb 2011, 08:38
@marguireta,

I lack the experience and the insight to have an idea of the various flying training venues available, but thanks to all the positive endorsements from yourself and others, I have decided that gliding would be a worthwhile activity to express my enthusiasm to the recruiters while conforming to my tight financial elasticity. So, thanks again.



I was researching on glider flying schools as I am looking to start lessons within the next two weekends, and came across a couple of websites, namely the Gliding Club of Victoria which provides lessons at Benalla and the VMFG [Victorian Motor less Flying Group] in Bacchus Marsh. The Gliding Club website mentions that one is able to go solo within five to eight hours of instruction before advanced training, and this basic course can be covered in a five day package or over a few weekends and quotes it at $2100, while the VMFG site mentions that one can go solo within a year of membership and seems a little more expensive.
I have no doubt that I would find it quite a breath-taking experience since it would be my very first time seated in a cockpit, and have loads of fun learning all that is shown. However, since I havenít had the financial freedom to afford this experience prior to now, and my file being resent to the PSA within the next two months, I am left with very little time and am therefore looking to fill out my logbook with at least a few hours of flying, to project my enthusiasm and the commitment I am willing to make, to the PSA. I havenít gotten around to contacting the two above mentioned organisations, but was wondering if anyone with the knowledge or experience can comment on the two extreme time frames quoted here by the two schools. Furthermore, any suggestions on other providers of glider flying lessons around Melbourne would also be appreciated.


Thank you.
Best Regards
Sep

BTW, congratulations Caity, I am envious :P . Good luck mate.

MudRat_02
8th Feb 2011, 14:45
Septerra,

It will depend on a number of factors but assuming you pick it up at a reasonable pace it will only take you a couple of hours to go solo on gliders. Somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3 up to 10 hours, but obviously it depends more than just how competent you are (weather, instructors, frequency of flights...). If you're using motor gliders then obviously for a given timeframe you'll have more freedom to practice certain aspects of a flight (ie. get more circuits in) if you desire and possibly solo sooner.

Those packages are foreign to me; both places I've glided at over the past few years have been considerably cheaper and don't tend to do large blocks of instruction like that or set timeframes for solo.


Lesnak,

Really hope you get to the bottom of that issue and get your application back on track. I've had some significant hurdles in my application from medical to testing woes but having that thrown at you after surviving FSP would have topped my list! Have you given avmed a bell?

Track Coastal
9th Feb 2011, 06:58
Quick Q on behalf of my son (I'm 2 decades of ATC and waaaay too old) whose Internet is down in our present locale. I'm using the work box.

On the last day of FSP there are leadership tasks, an essay, a speech and interviews.

Is the speech on a topic of your choice or the assessors?

Is the essay on a topic of your choice?

Any other info on that last day is appreciated. Thanks in advance - I'll make you No1 in the sequence. ;)

cj0203
9th Feb 2011, 08:26
The leadership activities and speeches are on a variety of topics and are impromptu. This all happens on the second last day. The final day(Friday) is the OSB. :ok:

Cheers

Chris

Track Coastal
9th Feb 2011, 09:47
The leadership activities and speeches are on a variety of topics and are impromptu. This all happens on the second last day. The final day(Friday) is the OSB.

Thanks CJ. You are cleared direct to the outer marker, cancel speed below 10,000.:ok:

I take it, they give you the topics?

When you say OSB, thats the grilling by the panel (chairman, instructor and psyche etc)?

I went through all this as a military ATC wannabe but it was so long ago, Alan Border was the Test captain and England held the ashes then as well.

cj0203
9th Feb 2011, 11:24
Yo, the topics are put to you and the OSB is the 'grilling' you so accurately described.

p.s. Steve Waugh was the greatest captain ever!! Aspiring ADF leaders could learn a lot from that man. Ponting would be cowering in the trenches!!

Cheers

Chris

Track Coastal
9th Feb 2011, 11:48
Thank you sir.

Border, Taylor and Waugh were all fine leaders in their unique ways and styles. Ricky just doesn't cut it.

P.I.C.S.I.E (plan initiate control support inform evaluate) would be a bed mate for Ricky's garden gnome.

Cheers

Check PMs :ok:

MudRat_02
9th Feb 2011, 13:17
Don't spoil all the fun cj! ;)

Track, experiences vary. I was never "grilled" but others were.

Track Coastal
10th Feb 2011, 04:52
MR02
Track, experiences vary. I was never "grilled" but others were.

I've delivered some grilling at boards/interviews (Taylor was captain then) :E

Too many bullsh!t artists out there. And, quite frankly, if you can't cop some pressure in a suit and tie it doesn't bode well if things start failing as the tubes are flying around at 8 miles-a-minute.

ant1984
10th Feb 2011, 04:59
@ Septerra

I'm also looking at these two locations for glider training, so I'd be curious to know how you go and which one you choose.

I wasn't able to find many other locations around Melbourne, but gliding is certainly going to be the way to go for me given a tight budget.

I just found http://www.lilydaleairport.com.au/ which has a section on gliding, the page looks pretty out of date though so I'm not sure if the prices are current etc.

Let me know how you go.

Cheers,

Anthony

Shonfield
10th Feb 2011, 06:29
I just recieved a call from my case manager and was told I had to have a 2nd non-pilot preference (I said aero engineer) and at my assessment day I will be asked about both. This is the first I've heard of the assessment day part. Has everyone else had to do this? And was it 50-50 on each in one interview, two separate interviews or one interview with most of the content on your first preference?

Thanks!
Sam

aus111c
10th Feb 2011, 06:55
Hi there,

My board wasnt particularly grilling at all, (I walked out smiling and slightly confused, because I was smiling), relatively, after the very busy two weeks of flying about and spending your spare time doing your "secondary duty" (especially in the last few days, unless you get an easy one) it was a relief to do something you couldn't completely prepare for. They look at who you are, you can't go in there and say you have outstanding maturity and leadership levels if you don't. They want to see what kind of person you are, and if your the one they want to spend some serious money on.

As others have written:
HONESTY and INTEGRITY work well. Essentially that is what you need, and some confidence. Approach the group activities in a positive way. I enjoyed my board interview, which I did not expect.

Good Luck to everyone in the process.

septerra
10th Feb 2011, 10:07
@mudrat

Thanks for that bit of info mate. I am now a little relived that, I might yet be able to squeeze a satisfactory amount of flying time [hopefully solo] within the short period available to add weight to my file before its off to the PSA.

@ant

Certainly mate. Hopefully if things go as planned, I must be able to experience gliding the weekend after. I shall keep you informed about where I start and how it all goes, through PM's. Looks like we are in a similar situation. I haven't checked the link you posted yet, but should be able to once Im home.

@Shonfield

I gave my second preference as Army SSO Pilot and my first as RAAF. I am unsure why you were asked to mention a non pilot role as a second preference.

Lacho
10th Feb 2011, 10:59
Shonfield,

I too was required to have a non-pilot preference for my third preference.

Although on assessment day I asked both the defence interviewer and psychologist to be only tested for my two pilot preferences (RAAF ADFA and RAAF DEO) which they allowed.

So if its something you don't really want to do but rather just to have a non pilot job down because it was requested of you, mention it to your defence interviewer and psychologist as soon as you start so you can just be assessed for pilot.

Lacho :)

Sandrews
10th Feb 2011, 11:58
G'day all,
Just to clear some things up,
@tony360, from a page or two ago, there is adfa specific testing, it usually occurs at the end of your testing at your YOU session.

@shonfield, your case manager is 100% wrong. You don't need a non pilot preference at all, you can have all 3 preferences as pilot options if you wish. You will be assessed on every preference you have down, but like as was mentioned you can opt out of assessing for a particular preference at the start of the interview. In that regard there is one interview, not 2 or 3 separate ones. If you opt out though and are not recommended, you will have to re sit the interview for the one you chose not to interview for the first time.. Make sense?

Anyone else in this boat should call their case managers and politely correct them.

Track Coastal
11th Feb 2011, 07:46
Probably a question thats been previously answered but I've been out of the firm for over a decade.

If you pass the flying and leadership assessments but flunk the board what happens then? Can you re-apply?

I know a WGCDR that failed 3 boards but that was preFSP in the 1980s.

WellyWelburn7
11th Feb 2011, 08:19
Firstly i would like to say to all those on here who are looking at a career in this field of the RAF........DONT BOTHER!! The whole outfit are a JOKE!! I've had the displeasure of being flown around the world by them for the past 22 years and can honestly say i've only ever flown on time twice without delays!!

I know that there are thousands that share this opinion having also being let down by this 'apparently' professional organisation! Even the RAF guys that i am currently serving with share my opinion! (Says it all really!)

Secondly if this was a civilian outfit they would have gone out of buisness years ago!! We are currently stuck in a location where it is costing over 10 grand a day in delays.......totally unacceptable in these unsteady times post SDSR!

Thirdly and lastly the RAF have too much of a good thing at times and therefore haven't got the 'Can Do' attitude, which is why no matter how much 'dripping' from others goes on things will never change! Surely it would be more cost effective to charter flights than pay for an organisation that is poor at timing, results and delivering what it says on the tin!

oldpinger
11th Feb 2011, 11:39
Ww7
You do know that this entire thread, who knows how many pages and posts is about the Royal AUSTRALIAN Airforce?
Granted over here is hardly the green grass on the other side of the fence.....

A tad jaded are we?
:hmm:

Zeddy
15th Feb 2011, 02:06
I am especially glad to be applying for the RAAF, and not the RAF...check this out:

Up to 100 pilots to be sacked as part of a $480m cost-cutting exercise | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/up-to-100-pilots-to-be-sacked-as-part-of-a-480m-cost-cutting-exercise/story-e6frg6so-1226005805741)

@ Track:

I'm still waiting for a spot at flight screening but from what I understand there are 3 outcomes at the conclusion of OSB:

You are awarded a recommendation to enter service. Or...
You are handed a 'not yet recommended' i.e return in 12 months. This means that the board sees potential...but you're just not showing it. An applicant pilot can only ever complete the flying component of FSP once - and their score stands. Not sure how many times the board will bring you back though to OSB though...
Lastly - and of course, the least desired....not recommended to enter service.

I have heard many stories of applicants acing the flying component but flunking the board. You have to show a potential and willingness to LEARN, not show-off by exemplifying how much of an ace you think you are....because the instructors will see right through you.


@ lesnak:

Sorry to hear mate. I'm currently class 3R - temporarily unfit to continue, and have been so since November. I'd probably rather know now if I were to be transitioned to class 4, rather than post-FSP...shame you didn't get the courtesy. Best of luck with your appeals mate.

spacemantan
16th Feb 2011, 10:50
Firstly i would like to say to all those on here who are looking at a career in this field of the RAF........DONT BOTHER!! The whole outfit are a JOKE!! I've had the displeasure of being flown around the world by them for the past 22 years and can honestly say i've only ever flown on time twice without delays!!

I'll echo most other people here and point out this is for the RAAF. That said, military transport doesn't have the same mentality as the airlines do. ALG isn't constrained by departure times (ideal world all times would be met) but safety and maintenance issues come first. Minimum equipment lists in the military are very stringent and the attitude is generally one of "If its broke, we might as well fix it and have a perfectly working aircraft." Where as the civil environment CFU's it and will pick it up later. Thats one example as to why military aircraft might depart late. There are a whole multitude of other reasons that I won't bother to list as I personally think that its obvious as to what the priorities are in the military.

Sure the RAAF can be painful at times, with organisational constraints putting sometimes unnecessary pressures on its people, but I, and nearly all I talk to (Maintenance, Aircrew, Support staff etc etc) wouldn't give this job up for anything. So what if you're a few hours late into Butterworth, Diego Garcia or a myriad of other countries/places... We'll all still get to have victory drinks at the end of the flight :ok:

So to the people going through the DFR process to become a pilot... Please ignore what was said (apart from it being about the RAF). Nothing beats going into another country, going out for drinks and then flying back. Having a blast whilst doing it. Pilot in the RAAF is probably the best job you can imagine... (at least if you're a boggie (even better a boggie copilot if you go multicrew)).

Polymer Fox
18th Feb 2011, 02:27
Hey everyone,

There were whispers of a round of DEO spots to come out at the start of this week. Did anyone have any luck or were those rumors unfounded?

Blackbird14
18th Feb 2011, 07:36
Calls have been made informing applicants of their dossiers being sent to Canberra. The final word will be made on Wednesday as far as I'm aware...

Track Coastal
20th Feb 2011, 14:51
Zeddy
I have heard many stories of applicants acing the flying component but flunking the board. You have to show a potential and willingness to LEARN, not show-off by exemplifying how much of an ace you think you are....because the instructors will see right through you.


I know of a candidate that went with zero hours except about 15mins at the controls of a 182 airborne. He got an excellent flight score (demonstrating his ability to learn fast), nailed the leadership but was not recommended because by not taking flying he demonstrated a lack of motivation. Total bollocks IMO. However he is not out of the pool for good I understand and its still game on ;).

I know an ex WGCDR that failed two boards and a serving LTCOL thats a close mate (we were JOs in the same op confines and of similar seniority at a couple of major exercises) that failed 3 boards (2 SSO and 1GSO).

CoodaShooda
20th Feb 2011, 23:29
TC

As I understand it, you get one go at FSP and hold that score. If you don't get through the initial OSB you can have up to another two goes 12 months apart.

I'm happy to be corrected but I think that's how my lad explained it. He was fortunate to get through on the first attempt, so I haven't taken a close interest in the re-test process.

MudRat_02
21st Feb 2011, 02:19
To clarify, there are three different outcomes at the end of FSP:

1) You are recommended
2) You are not recommended, but are invited to retry OSB after a specified wait time (typically a year, sometimes longer).
3) You are not recommended by the board and are not welcome to reapply due to incompatibilities with the position of ADF pilot.

Having experienced the process personally, I have a lot faith in the current system and the people behind it. I don't know what the situation is with the bloke you mentioned TC, but I know of people that got an offer with no previous flying experience first time round. I also know of many that got an offer with a myriad of flying hobbies and flying licenses to their name; if you don't have any experience and you are not involved in any aviation-related activities, then that would surely cast doubt on just how interested you are.

Obviously there are guys with more insight and far more experience than myself here so I'll leave it there, but I always took my "failures" as an opportunity to improve and there's no shortage of constructive criticism to take with you from Tamworth!

@ Blackbird: Yes there were two distributions staggered over last week (RAAF, don't know about the others), but I don't think its Wednesday when the final word is given.

finestkind
21st Feb 2011, 03:03
TC

Interested to know what your mates flying score was. Even more interested to know how he knew that he had nailed the leadership. Applicants that do very well at the flying side have to do poorly at the board side to not be recommended. A lot of people get through with no flying hours, so I think the lack of actual flying to prove motivation may not be on the numbers.

Mudrat is correct with the three outcomes of FSP but at the present time you can wait three years or if it has been three years come back and do the whole FSP again. Get in quick before this changes.

Blackbird14
21st Feb 2011, 03:26
Yes there were two distributions staggered over last week (RAAF, don't know about the others), but I don't think its Wednesday when the final word is given. @ Mudrat - My enlistment coordinator in Melbourne told me that I would know by Wednesday as to whether or not I start on the 4th of March. I think they're cutting it fine as it is, less then 2 weeks to organise your life and work related issues is a tall order!

Aussie_Aviator
21st Feb 2011, 03:49
I think they're cutting it fine as it is, less then 2 weeks to organise your life and work related issues is a tall order!

Welcome to the ADF ! :)

MudRat_02
21st Feb 2011, 03:51
Yes I was very surprised (pleasantly!); I got my letter of offer for RAAF pilot today for the course starting on the 4th. Less than two weeks to drop life as I know it in order to embrace the next 12 years in the RAAF...its going to be great!

Edit: I say 12 years, yet fully intend to stay much longer than that!

cj0203
21st Feb 2011, 07:52
Well done Mudrat, congrats. :ok:

Gavman
21st Feb 2011, 09:32
G'day guys!
Wow! so awesome that you got in!!

I'v just passed my specialised testing for pilot with the ADF, so iv still got a long way to go.But the next step is the assessment interview next week and I was just wondering if any of you guys could tell me what sort of questions to expect and what answers there looking for. Iv done a bit of research but am just wondering if anyone who's done it recently could give me a heads up :). It'd be very nice to get to FSB! haha

Hope iv come to the right place and thanks heaps for taking the time to read this,
Gav

Zeddy
21st Feb 2011, 10:35
Mudrat, brilliant mate. So happy for you. You've come a long way, and this is only the beginning of your journey! :ok:

Blackbird14
21st Feb 2011, 11:00
Well done Mudrat... Champion!!

Track Coastal
21st Feb 2011, 12:50
finestkind
Interested to know what your mates flying score was. Even more interested to know how he knew that he had nailed the leadership. Applicants that do very well at the flying side have to do poorly at the board side to not be recommended. A lot of people get through with no flying hours, so I think the lack of actual flying to prove motivation may not be on the numbers.


If you are in Saudi you are maybe on Hawks or Tornadoes and my age (late 40s) and served in more rational regimes - a gen ago.

When He go told no probs with the flying; you met the mean; your leadership exercises and speech was fine, however...(I don't want to go into it here to out him).

I've been on assessment and OSB boards, just sh*t.

MudRat_02
22nd Feb 2011, 00:20
Thanks fellas! By the sound of things there will be several of us from this thread heading down, but no doubt I'll see the rest of you in the ADF further down the track sometime. Good luck!

oldpinger
22nd Feb 2011, 00:39
Mudrat- Well done and good luck.:ok: Have fun on the mighty CT4 and keep your sense of humour, something that seems to have deserted Trackcoastal- :confused:

Remember, the staff are here to help!

NicKM91
22nd Feb 2011, 01:02
Well done MudRat, I'll be seeing you down in Sale.

Blackbird, let me know as soon as you hear any news.

Cheers

Shonfield
24th Feb 2011, 09:50
Hey Guys,

Had my assessment day yesterday, all went well :):), with the exception of a medical issue that should be very quick (quick for the ADF anyway).

If anyone wants to ask me anything in regards to it, PM me now while I can remember. I know I had 100 questions before I went. I'm happy to help anyone out.

For the others that are still in school - I was told grades are more or less the number 1 thing they have to differentiate people prior to OSB, so keep them up! The defence interviewer implied that over 80 in all subjects should secure a spot on FSP. Not sure how much truth there is to that though, I would have expected higher.

For anyone that has an assessment day, please dear god wear a suit. There was a kid there in a hoodie and shorts. You should have seen the look on their faces.

For the people asking if the 2011 FSP schedule was up, it is now.

Lastly, the psychologist is death. Keep confident during that, she kept telling me I was wrong on areas I was positive about. She even tried to tell me BFTS wasn't at Tamworth..........

Zeddy
24th Feb 2011, 10:22
Congrats Shonfield!

I hope for your sake that your medical clears quickly. I was told that too - and I've had to send multiple reports back and forth to the medical administration since my assessment day last November. And it's still taking time. I sure hope my file reaches Tamworth in the next few months :sad:

GSXRMCK
24th Feb 2011, 10:38
Hi Guys, I'm a long time reader and not much of a poster, however I'm attending FSP on Saturday, starting Sunday. I'm very excited but very nervous! The main thing I will focus on is doing my best and keeping a sense of humour. I feel as though I've prepared well but you never never know until you finally go.
Anyway for all others out there that are still trying to get to FSP, keep at it, your determination and commitment will hopefully shine through and you will land a spot on FSP, then it's up to you to perform!

Wish me luck :D

MudRat_02
24th Feb 2011, 11:07
Congratulations on your offer Nick, and congrats Shonfield for a successful Assessment day! Oldpinger - thanks, and I definitely will! Can't wait to fly the parrot again.

Shonfield, that psychologist session you got sounds like hell! Mine was more akin to a very casual chat, and I came away wondering what the all the fuss was about.

Good luck with the medical administration issues Zeddy. They can be frustratingly slow but it will all be worthwhile once you've got them sorted! :ok:

Aloys1us
27th Feb 2011, 07:22
I have flight screening this Saturday, and I really want to fly chinooks! However I have heard they are only a 2nd term posting, is this true?? If so how come and where do they do their conversion course?

Btw GSX are you on the 05mar course?

Caity1835
27th Feb 2011, 10:46
I am on the 05 March course!

Check your PMs :)

spacemantan
27th Feb 2011, 11:41
Congrats guys on getting as far as you have with your respective applications. Whether you be starting Officer training soon or going across to Tamworth to attend flight screening, all the best.

Aloys1us:

I believe, and if an army pilot can correct me if I'm wrong, That Chook conversion is held at 5 AVN Regiment in Townsville. I'm not entirely 100% certain if it is a second tour posting, but if it were the case it would not surprise me as it is a different type of flying. Whereas blackhawks, MRH90s, Kiowas and the ARH's all apply the exact same principles of lift and flight found generic for all helicopters, The chinook would have its own, albeit similar, flying characteristics and principles. At least is my understanding of it anyways. I havn't met too many Chook pilots in my time apart from two crusty Colonels (no names).

Don't let that put you off, Although flying a chinook would have some prestige, The Blackhawk pilots I have met, claim they can't imagine anything more fun than what they do. As for the ARH... Next to being a fighter pilot or a digger on the ground, where else are you gonna blow %*#@ up?
VTIC

Aloys1us
27th Feb 2011, 12:13
Cheers for the info, I did meet a ath pilot while I worked on raaf Darwin. And he swore by it too defs had me convinced to change my mind I guess it all comes down to preference. I wana work with medical evac n spec ops so my only chance of being deployed in such roles would land on the mrh now, If the chook is outa reach straight up

Jimmy Recard
28th Feb 2011, 03:04
Hi Everyone, haven't been on here in a while - congratulations to the guys being accepted, brilliant work. I've followed your stories as you've gone through the various stages and its inspiring to see people getting in. :ok:

I finally got a call this morning for Flight Screening starting 12th March, anyone else heading to Tamworth for that course? It's been 18 months since I first applied and I waited all last year for an FSP spot but missed out. Had my 2nd Assessment Day last month and was told my file was sent to PSA on Friday and got a call this morning! Just goes to show if you hang in there you might get a shot! :O

Zeddy, good luck with the Med stuff. I had my first Assessment Day at the start of Feb 2010 and and my file wasn't sent of until May or something. Just keep checking with DFR as to where it is and how it's proceeding as I doubt my file would have even got to PSA last year if I hadn't...

Good luck to the guys heading to Tamworth on Saturday - PM me if you're on my course and want to have a chat... Whoohoo!!!

Cheers

Jimmy

Blackbird14
28th Feb 2011, 05:59
Hey guys,
I got an offer to start monday week! Don't know what to think, my mind is ticking over a million miles a second!!

MudRat_02
28th Feb 2011, 10:04
Congrats Blackbird, see you then! :ok:

spacemantan
28th Feb 2011, 11:14
Aloys1us:

And always hold on to your dreams. The military can be a harsh place and you may not always find yourself where you wish to be, but no matter what a/c you fly or what operations you do, I can guarantee you'll find it rewarding. Whether it be flying Blackhawks for specops in Sydney or providing an armed eye in the sky with the ARH, you'll always feel a part of something big. Work towards your dreams with the chook and you just might get there!

To the rest of you, good luck at flight screening and the best advice I can give you is this: Study hard, be yourself, show the OSB what you're made of, and most importantly... Have a great time with it.

Might i suggest heading out to the Impy on Friday/Saturday night... Or observing a cluster cup after Friday knock off! See the BFTS culture.

oldpinger
28th Feb 2011, 18:53
Spaceman- you sound like a native :E

the Impies ok, but a punch in the head from a p*ssed local can ruin your entire career:ouch:, so look out for your mates!:ok: (this is true for all nights out, runs ashore etc)

spacemantan
28th Feb 2011, 21:42
I wouldn't say native, lets just say an experienced person! And yes, going to the impy comes with a note, warning and caution... Don't start something because it will hurt :ouch:

MudRat_02
28th Feb 2011, 22:16
Just make sure you find out what the rules are for screeners in regards to the Impy before you head in there on friday: I know when I was there last year it was off limits because of previous 'altercations' ;)

NicKM91
1st Mar 2011, 00:10
Likewise we were told to stay away. It's easy to spot a BFTS student or Flight Screener in town because lets just say hair styles tend to differ a bit...

Congrats on the offer BlackBird14, you'll make the right choice, just like we had planned a year ago:E, so when did you want to leave for sale :ok:

Captain Sand Dune
1st Mar 2011, 01:03
Just make sure you find out what the rules are for screeners in regards to the Impy before you head in there on friday: I know when I was there last year it was off limits because of previous 'altercations'
FFS!! So why are you attending flight screening again?
How about not going into town and sacrificing one Friday night of your lives and actually doing some preparation! You only get one shot at this, kiddies.
If that's too much of a sacrifice for you to make, you seriously need to re-consider your priorities or your choice of career.

djwarchild
1st Mar 2011, 02:34
As stupid as it may sound, I just want to thank all for their feedback on my previously posted rant. I had just hit a wall and was pissed. As a follow up to that rant and a bit of background, I had already had an interview with the Shadow Minister for Defence who informed me of several things. One being that if it was taken further by him and the Minister of Defence then I could kiss any opportunity of joining goodbye as my application would pretty much be blackballed. It may help the recruiting process in the future but my application would pretty much be dirt. His words, not mine. He was also the one who informed me of the Defence forces need to 'force' serving members of the military out, much the same way England has been doing, due to a very low outgoing turnover, due in part to the GFC and the prospect of financial stability in the military. Again, his words, not mine.

I had tried to go up the chain also and was met with brick walls the whole way. I was told the same thing nearly everytime, 'that's just how recruiting works.'

What the problem was was, I had passed up several job contracts on advice from recruiting in that I could be off to Flight Selection within the next month. It makes it difficult to start a new job and then two weeks in have to say, thanks guys but I have to go away for two weeks, I hope you understand. Real world just doesn't work like that. Going the ADFA route while still in school is ok as you have a fairly stable environment around you and no real world commitments (within reason), but for the rest of us out there, things like work, rent, family commitments, etc need to be juggled around the selection process and when it's dragged out over 18 months frustration is going to set in.

Again i do apologise for the rant, it was intended to get some blunt feedback from all perspectives, and I appreciate the feedback that was offered.

As for the old guy statement. It was not meant to be taken how it was. I'm not saying 40 is old per say, but at 22 I was told I was getting to be too old to be looking at joining the Air Force as a pilot, so compared to that, yes 40 is old. It was not meant to be derogatory, or taken as that.

aus111c
1st Mar 2011, 06:07
Got the offer today to go down to OTS this Saturday, cannot wait to start and get into the training and if all goes well be in the front seat of a super hornet in a few years. The late confirmation was quite interesting but still gladly accepted. The dream is slowly turning into a reality.

The Impy..... we were warned too. There must be some horror stories that come out of that backwater pub, tall poppy syndrome maybe? with the medicine delivered by the locals. :ouch::ouch::ouch::ouch:. There are better social places anyway. (ie not the Impy)

spacemantan
1st Mar 2011, 11:12
I have to disagree with you Captain Sand Dune on the issue of friday nights on flight screening.

Although prep is paramount to being successful whilst at flight screening, an opportunity to let your hair down after what could be a rather stressful week is an important part to staying with it. Hence why most of the students do the same thing whilst on course at BFTS. Its just my opinion ofcourse, because I know many normal guys who would have cracked if they didn't have the opportunity to relax once in a while.

Sounds like the Impy is still off limits anyway... Try the Tamworth, or Tudor... sometimes can be good

Runaway Gun
1st Mar 2011, 11:58
I have to agree with Captain Sand Dune.

If you can't cope with the stress of such a short and important Flight Screening and need to head into yokesville to piss it up, then how are you going to cope with OTS, Comsurv, and FTS etc?

This is your future, and not a holiday camp that it depriving you of a few nights out on the turps.

Shonfield
1st Mar 2011, 12:03
Thanks everyone for the congrats!

And congratulations for getting offers guys! Well done! It must be a bit strange having to pack up your life in a week, but I guess that's what we're signing up for.

As for the flight screening - I'd have to agree with Captain. Sure, on course you need to relax, probably weekly, but if you can't handle 2 weeks without going to the pub I think you might have a bit of a struggle. With the competition there is at flight screening I would rather be working for the 2 weeks without the relax.

spacemantan
1st Mar 2011, 13:51
I guess we should leave those decisions up to the people who are there to make them. My point is that one night of putting your feet up does not hurt in the greater scheme of things. You might actually feel you need it or even deserve it and to put a blanket "You must study every single spare minute of your time" is actually counter productive. Think about it, in all your life experiences... School for example, did you spend friday nights studying or relaxing? Uni, same question. OTS/ADFA, same question. BFTS/2FTS, same question. etc etc. You have two days in Saturday and Sunday in which you can study for 16hrs if you please, what's 6 hours of one night?

How much study can one candidate do whilst on Flight Screening? Once you know everything, you know everything... Once you're prepped for the OSB, you're prepped for the OSB... Apart from chair flying there isn't much else you can do.

That is my opinion and have seen it work. I've also seen it fail, but then again i've also seen the other argument work/fail.

I think we should leave it up to the individual.

Runaway Gun
1st Mar 2011, 14:00
Sure, it is up to the individual.

But there's been many times I've been under intense pressure in a military cockpit, wishing I had studied for an extra hour or so (despite knowing that I knew it all preflight).

It's an important weekend concerning your life's dream. There are ways to relax or let off steam, or bond with the group, but getting blottoed/bashed/pissed/herpes is a large price to pay. If you can't go without such luxururies for one weekend, then perhaps your heart isn't really in it.

spacemantan
1st Mar 2011, 20:33
Conceded,

Getting blottoed/bashed/pissed/herpes (herpes? really?) isn't a great idea, and personally I probably wouldn't go out and do the same... But I would go out and have a couple of drinks to bond with my fellow screeners and relax.

MudRat_02
1st Mar 2011, 21:21
I did go out on the Friday right or wrong, but it wasn't because I couldn't handle a weekend without getting on the turps: part of my reasoning was that you have to sit an OSB with the group at the end of the two weeks that mostly (on the Thursday) involves team exercises that would obviously be a lot easier with a close-knit group. I think blowing off some steam on friday helps in that regard.

I did feel at times as though I really did need a bit of extra study (though I would have thought that regardless!), but being the sole FSP candidate not to go out for a beer would have hurt a lot more than it helped, I think.

Blackbird14
1st Mar 2011, 23:02
Our group were lucky enough to have the Tamworth Country Music Festival in full swing during our allotted course. In fact, heading in to town on the Friday was encouraged by the staff!

I can't say I'm a massive fan of country music, but the group did bond. The togetherness of our course was noticed by the instructors and OSB, and I attribute that to the time spent away from the base as much as in it.

How much study can one candidate do whilst on Flight Screening? Once you know everything, you know everything... Once you're prepped for the OSB, you're prepped for the OSB... Apart from chair flying there isn't much else you can do. I agree spacemantan, there was only so much chair flying my brain could take in one day! Very tiring stuff... I believe it was just as important to increase the group dynamic, as it was to sit in your room by yourself for hours on end (a mixture of the two is needed :)).

BurningDesire
2nd Mar 2011, 00:27
I've just been invited to Flight Screening and will be attending the final program before the easter break - 26th March. Will anybody else be attending this program? Byron

aus111c
2nd Mar 2011, 08:13
The country music festival was a good bonding experience. Enough Said on a public forum.

Lacho
2nd Mar 2011, 10:14
What about those who attend Flight Screening underage?

aus111c
2nd Mar 2011, 10:20
jenga my friend

nato.wp
3rd Mar 2011, 02:38
I'll be on that one with you Jimmy, starting the 12th, I'm coming up from Adelaide, aiming for a PIC seat in a blackhawk.

NicKM91
3rd Mar 2011, 02:55
Lesnak, don't forget J.P from ADFA afterburn as well ;)

I do agree that going out and getting smashed is a bad idea, however the course Lesnak and I were on relished the opportunity to chat with some tremendously experienced aviators from WWII up until present. That said every weekend is not the 60th annual flyers reunion!

I felt that doing something with the FSP and BFTS course people on that middle weekend didn't hinder me or my course mates at all, however, none of us drunk all that much and we were back well before mid-night. We all came back feeling like we knew each other a bit better seeing people outside of the FSP environment, and really built on our already positive group dynamic which much like BlackBird, was commented on during our board activities.

Sitting by the pool in the late afternoon light discussing the past weeks flying while Squadron Leader Tony Blair put on an aerobatic display wasn't half bad either. :ok:

I don't want to give the wrong impression though. Work hard, the course certainly demands it! Take a few hours over the space of the fortnight to console your thoughts and rest your mind would be my advice.

totalreaction
3rd Mar 2011, 10:19
Hey just a quick question to those of you who have recived invitations to the FSP... What's the usual time frame between when you receive your invitation, and when you start FSP?
Replies much appreciated! :ok:

Oh, and a few posts back about the chook conversion, I've read a couple of times it's done at US Army base Fort Rucker, in Alabama. But that might have been outdated!??

Jimmy Recard
3rd Mar 2011, 11:45
TR, seems to be between 2 and 4 weeks given what people have posted up here in the last few years.

Brilliant nato, I'm heading up from Adelaide as well so might run into you before we get there...

Gezzill
4th Mar 2011, 06:12
hey guys,

I have a quick question regarding Assessment Day for pilot Direct Entry.
One thing I think will be asked is "do I understand the role of an Pilot Officer in the RAAF?"

I've been doing a lot of research and am struggling to find a straight answer. I know there would be administrative work and such, but is there a definition of the role?

Thank a lot!

Baritji
4th Mar 2011, 09:55
Gezzil,

Ring your local base and arrange an interview with a pilot... When I joined, we were asked to do this by DFR before Assessment Day. Prepare as many questions as you can!

I am not sure if this is still required, but you will at least appear motivated. It will beat any information you can get on this forum, hands down.

Good Luck,

B

raiderboy
6th Mar 2011, 05:39
jimmy, nato

i also received a call on feb 28th and am heading to flight screening on 12th march. cant wait!

pookiethestrong
6th Mar 2011, 06:39
I am going down the same patha s most of you but I have only begun.
I have completed the basic applitutde test as well as the basic maths at the start of this month. The same day I also complete the maths entry exam for ADFA.

In a few weeks from now I need to return the DFR to complete the next test as a part of the recruiting process.

I'd imagine that there would be more maths and physics involved in this test aswel as spacial awareness and even some basic intrument reading.

Is that pretty much it or are there also some more areas i should be looking into before my date with the DFR?

Cheers, Pete

septerra
7th Mar 2011, 02:43
Ive never considered ADFA, but simply out of curiosity, who is the ADFA targeted at? As in, does it cater specifically to those that have just completed schooling or do older people with prior qualifications take up these courses as well? And is a spot guaranteed upon qualification for the position applied for, such as a Pilot posting subsequent to graduating from an aviation degree?

PM's welcome. I am simply curious, as I already possess an undergraduate degree and have other financial commitments but if its a viable option I would like to have it as a contingency for the future.

Cheers
Sep

raiderboy
7th Mar 2011, 10:04
just a quick question for the guys who have already been to flight screening. wat did u wear on your flight to tamworth? should i be expected to arrive in a suit or what?

Jimmy Recard
8th Mar 2011, 01:14
raiderboy and nato.wp, check your PMs.

I'm guessing neat casual (i.e. shirt and slacks/dress jeans) is probably ok but I guess it's better to be overdressed than underdressed - I'd be interested to hear what others have to say as well.

nato.wp
8th Mar 2011, 06:42
I'd like to know whether this upcoming (12th-26th) FSP is considered to be in the Winter or Summer months :confused:
I definitely don't have anything resembling thermal underwear, or flying gloves...hope it won't be too cold.
Also would be nice to see which schedule applies.

*Edit: BOM says shower or two, 17-31'C for Sat, and similar all week. I'll put that in the summer box.

Also, any prior candidates, what, if any physical training opportunities are there? The gym is off-limits, and by my understanding the IFT is at the end of the fortnight, so are we expected to just atrophy for the period prior a physical test, or...?

Aussie_Aviator
8th Mar 2011, 06:59
@ nato.wp

I definitely don't have anything resembling thermal underwear, or flying gloves...hope it won't be too cold.

You're kidding aren't you ? You hope it won't be too cold !?
Are you 'Gen-Y' by chance !? :ooh:

Have you considered what might happen if you actually do get selected for training as a PLT in the ADF ? Here's a tip: no matter what your position (Category/Mustering) - there's an expectation that crews and equipment will operate and deploy (for sustained periods) under wide ranging temperatures and weather conditions. Yes, that means you may get cold (and wet) and you will have to sort your own clothing needs, appropriate to the predicted climate ... all this by yourself !!

If your intention is to join RAAF, then I hope you enjoy Exercises' Labuan and Tarakan whilst at OTS. Especially during the less warmer months in Sale !!
If you're accepted for Army SSO, then it won't be so bad.

If you don't have anything resembling "thermal underwear" - maybe go and buy some ! Better still: use your initiative (and on-line resources) & perhaps consider checking out the long range weather forecasts for YSTW on the internet - that may give you idea if it's going to be cold or not !!? :ugh:

Here's another tip: you're being assessed at FSP for 'Commissioning Potential' as well as an ability to learn at a certain rate in the air environment. The rest is up to you.

Good luck.

spacemantan
8th Mar 2011, 12:50
@ Aussie_Aviator

All due respect, but I believe nato.wp is showing some form of Initiative by asking the question on here. Surely he isn't a local from Tamworth and isn't aware of its Climate this time of year. I think its a fair question and it shows he's obviously thought about it and hasn't been able to come up with an answer. RE Tarakan and Labuan... I believe the RAAF issue you with thermals, so if it is your choice to wear them whilst digging pits in the middle of the night then so be it.

@ nato.wp, raiderboy etc etc

Tamworth can be hot this time of year however it is beginning to cool down somewhat (weather gods will make a liar of me however). So ultimately I suggest a mix of clothing but leaning more towards the summer style. With that in mind, arrive in Tamworth wearing neat casual attire (collared shirt and slacks), and you won't find yourself over or under dressed. Whilst on FSP, I suggest you wear nothing less than collar and tie (suit would go well here).

With respect to gloves and thermals etc etc... Not necessary unless they are stipulated in any instructions you recieve. If you havn't recieved any don't hesitate to contact the staff there and ask for a copy (if they still exist) or get them to answer your questions. Either way I don't think you'll find it too cold in the aircraft and the flying suits provided should be sufficient. I also don't recall doing the IFT there (was done back with DFR) but in terms of fitness opportunities... Theres always a couple of laps to the civilian terminal, and/or pushups/situps in your room. If you are at a reasonable level of fitness now then 2 weeks of limited exercise will not hurt you. If not... get cracking because if you're expected to pass the IFT there... It will be hard.

Most importantly of all, good luck and enjoy the course.

Aussie_Aviator
8th Mar 2011, 13:07
@ spacemantan

@ Aussie_Aviator

All due respect, but I believe nato.wp is showing some form of Initiative by asking the question on here. Surely he isn't a local from Tamworth and isn't aware of its Climate this time of year. I think its a fair question and it shows he's obviously thought about it and hasn't been able to come up with an answer. RE Tarakan and Labuan... I believe the RAAF issue you with thermals, so if it is your choice to wear them whilst digging pits in the middle of the night then so be it.

But of course, you're right. How ignorant of me.

I'm relieved he finally "came up with an answer."

(No, the RAAF don't issue thermals at OTS).

raiderboy
8th Mar 2011, 13:13
@spacemantan

Thanks mate for the information and for not giving us forum noobs a hard time. I will be sure to follow your advise. :ok:

Cheers

spacemantan
8th Mar 2011, 20:38
(No, the RAAF don't issue thermals at OTS).

Guess i'll count myself lucky that I got some issued whilst there and chalk one up for the SRP.

nato.wp
9th Mar 2011, 00:37
Aussie Aviator, relax mate, it was a tongue-in-cheek quip. I am as aware as a non-enlisted 22 year-old can be about the operational deployment responsibilities of a pilot officer in the Army. I am aware that any personal items and requirements will be up to me to organise.
My personal history can show that I am fully capable of living in, and operating in isolated regions with minimal resources, while accomplishing the task at hand within the necessary timeframe to a more than adequate standard.

Please note also, that I did edit my post to reflect my further research on the climate of the area.

Thanks for the advice regarding dress standards, spacemantan, there was a little ambiguity with reference to the appropriate attire to arrive in.

Zulk
9th Mar 2011, 21:21
Re: ADFA

ADFA is aimed at those of us who wish to study, gain a commission and be baby sat for a few years.

It is quite ARA oriented, which isn't a suprise given that RMC is just over the hill and the Army holds the highest personnel count of the three services.

There's kids just out of school and boys and girls in their mid twenties that previously served as ORs who wish to gain their first pips or stripes without having to endure Funtroon for 18 months or the equivalent.

If you want to visit uni, get taught to wipe your bum and get some cash under your belt then ADFA could be the place for you. If you just want to learn to wipe your bum and get paid then direct entry would be your best option.

CoodaShooda
10th Mar 2011, 02:36
Zulk

You forgot the bit about quickly gaining an officer's ego. :E

Anyway, what are you doing in here? You're supposed to be studying or cleaning your room, or ironing your clothes or something. :=

PS Try not to bite that hand that feeds you; even if it is ARA. Patience, my son. :}

BurningDesire
13th Mar 2011, 11:22
So who has FSP on the 26th?

Gezzill
14th Mar 2011, 04:43
Another question about assessment day.

How many people chose to be assessed on all of their preferences? Or just one? What is your opinion on it?

What happens if you only choose one and fail it, can you go back and be assessed on others?

And if you pass, and make it to FSP for your 1st preference, does that mean you will only be considered for that preference for a job?

Thank you,

Gezzill

finestkind
14th Mar 2011, 10:36
Gezzill,

apologise if this sounds a bit harsh but

What does ADFPSA stand for???

oldpinger
15th Mar 2011, 00:31
Australian Defence Force Pilot Selection Agency :8

Run very capably out of a very fetching portakabin I believe! :D

Gezzill
15th Mar 2011, 06:55
finestkind,

are you implying that i should call PSA myself? I am looking for more personal opinions about what people did for their assessment day, and at the same time what that means if you sit one preference and fail it

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Shonfield
15th Mar 2011, 07:18
DFR would give you the answer to that straight away if you gave them a call but if you choose one preference and fail you can book another assessment day for another preference when you want.

I think finestkind was implying the ADFPSA being the PILOT selection agency, they are only concerned with your pilot preferences. If you have other non-pilot preferences you still have the case with DFR and you can pursue these preferences while waiting for a flight screening spot. Again, DFR would tell you this in one quick phone call.

finestkind
15th Mar 2011, 08:30
Well answered oldpinger, you may sit down.

Gezzill,

nope, nahdah, zip, not implying anything just trying to get you to see the answer to your own question.

Your preference, for pilot, is what you go to PSA for but they are selecting pilots for the ADF, so if your pref is for RAAF it does not mean they do not consider you for ARA or RAN.

As far as having a 1st pref for pilot and a 2nd pref for something non hands on controls, PSA is selecting you for pilot as stated by Shonfield. Speak to the DFR. I am sure they would be more than happy for you to have one pref as I am sure they would be more than happy if you did not make that one and came back and did another or had multiple pref. Remeber if you get in they make money.

ashcollins86
21st Mar 2011, 08:24
Hi guys,

I am wondering if anyone that has completed the selection process can tell me some more about the aptitude testing? I have my initial YOU session in a week's time, and I understand there is a preliminary aptitude test involved, and then a more specific one later in the application process.

I am wondering if anyone can recommend where to find some practice aptitude tests, or at least let me know what I need to brush up on - the mathematic side of things is what concerns me the most, I was quite good at maths at school but have been out of school for 6 years so I imagine I'm a bit rusty, and would like to know what to revise on...:8

Apologies if this has already been asked previously in the thread, but I have very limited access to the internet and unfortunately haven't got the ability to sift through and look for it! :bored:

Thanks heaps in advance, any help is much appreciated.