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Slezy9
22nd Mar 2018, 10:20
C'mon mate. You're a pilot in the RAAF. You have the best wicket in the world.

Most people could only dream of what you do for a living.

If you don't mind me asking, what aircraft are you assigned to?

Yeah, below average pay, moving every 3 years, secondary duties that have zero to do with being a pilot, ground jobs, etc...

The best wicket it aint, don't get me wrong, it's good for a while but you cant do it forever.

hansfalkenhagen
22nd Mar 2018, 10:26
I get what your saying, but the civilian alternative isn't much better: 6 figure student debt then off to the outback to do tourist flights on 30k a year is the reality for most.

It's that or you have loaded parents who pay the $150,000 to secure you an airlines cadetship.

If I ever make it as a pilot in the ADF I am sure I will have my gripes, but serving your country has gotta be better than serving Qantas.

hansfalkenhagen
22nd Mar 2018, 10:27
but perhaps I am being too optimistic about a career in the ADF

junior.VH-LFA
22nd Mar 2018, 11:41
Dude, you havenít done it, donít pretend you know more than the people who have.

Like I said, itís the best flying I have or ever will do.

Thatís about the end of it.

kyle_
25th Mar 2018, 01:31
Long time reader first time poster
My application has been going on for three years now due to some medical issues (had a knee recon took a year to get cleared). I have sat two assessment days and passed both with flying colours. My last one was November 2017. I received a call two weeks ago from ASP to attend the next available session as someone had dropped it. (Last week of March) Unfortunately i had to say no as i was on holidays in Melbourne at the time. (shame it was so close to East Sale) However i was advised the next ASP was in May and should expect a call in April. All the information on this forum has been so beneficial in getting me into the position i am today. So fingers crossed i get the call for the next ASP.

BIGBEACH
27th Mar 2018, 01:22
Haha, I got my first job out of high school for being the only one at a group interview not wearing thongs and boardies.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people going through these first ASPs to only want the job they've applied for. I want to be a pilot and an Officer in the RAAF... at the same time. It's going to be different for everyone. If it actually becomes the case that you don't know which job pathway you're on till after OTS then yeah, it seems very likely that some people will jump ship during their IMPS grace period if they dont get what they want. So as it stands, those self-selecting themselves out of contention is good thing. As for the people being bitter after failing, this is likely the first major 'NO' that some of them have received in their lives. Especially because it's almost a personal attack of 'no you as a person do not have the aptitude to do this job'. Whether or not they bounce back and learn from it before having another crack is the main concern.

After some more cyber sleuthing I found those 7 domains that you mentioned. Looks like they've introduced some new names for them whilst the tests remain the same. Hope you did well on the CLAN test if it was covered. It's the most significant (statistical) indicator of IFR performance apparently.


My ASP is coming up in 2 weeks time. Any tips on where to find those 7 domains for ASP practice

tayra
28th Mar 2018, 08:24
In the RAF thread on this very forum!

hansfalkenhagen
28th Mar 2018, 08:59
In the RAF thread on this very forum!

Nice.

I thought it was funny that no one caught on to the fact the images on the joining instructions were copyrighted with "UK MOD". If that wasn't enough of a hint than I don't know what is.

How did you go?

EttaJames29
29th Mar 2018, 08:45
Hey All,

Im wondering if anyone has been given any indication of how long we will wait for an officer selection board now that weíve progressed through the ASP? Also, how much notice do you usually get?

Iíve heard the next intakes for initial officer training for RAAF are July and August and then not until next year.

Itís hard to organise your life when youíre stuck in this waiting game.

hansfalkenhagen
29th Mar 2018, 10:51
Hey All,

Im wondering if anyone has been given any indication of how long we will wait for an officer selection board now that weíve progressed through the ASP? Also, how much notice do you usually get?

Iíve heard the next intakes for initial officer training for RAAF are July and August and then not until next year.

Itís hard to organise your life when youíre stuck in this waiting game.

What stage are you up to?

You are notified during the ASP as to whether you have passed. 10 business days later you will receive a letter to say whether you will be offered an OSB based on your preferences. After that you wait until Canberra decides to lock in a date for your OSB.

Not everyone will get an offer to attend an OSB, even those who rank very highly with their ASP scores.

I have been told I will have the opportunity to go to a Pilot's OSB but I do not know when it is yet. I may get notified of my OSB date next week, or perhaps it will be months down the track.

My EC emailed me saying:
"Small RAAF intakes are currently scheduled for July & August 2018 and January & February 2019.
Small RAN intakes are currently scheduled for July 2018 & January 2019."

Note the word "Small".

I've got my heart set on the Navy (or Army but they aren't hiring) but have been told that there are only 2 positions for NEOC Navy Pilots this July, and 3 for Jan 2018. If the Navy are only hiring 5 pilots for the next year and my EC refers to a "small" RAN intake, then the RAAF's "small" intake may be similar. I am unsure as to where the "we're crying out for pilots" term comes from.

EttaJames29
29th Mar 2018, 11:09
Hey Hans,

Thatís amazing news - congrats! I passed both pilot and mission at the ASP, but have only received an offer of progression for ACO at this point. Just deciding whether to wait the 12 months and retest or progress with this offer.

I suppose it canít hurt to keep moving with this offer. If it ends up dragging out till next Jan anyway, I can always change my mind and resit ASP.

Just wondering how much notice they usually give you before officer selection boards. Not sure how frantically I should be studying up and visiting bases etc

hansfalkenhagen
29th Mar 2018, 11:40
EttaJames29,

I was looking over the officer's thread on Ausmilitary. Some people were offered OSB dates (for all roles, not pilot roles) a week or so after their assessment day. Some waited in excess of 6 months before hearing back.

Further to this, many candidates were giving a letter of offer a week or two before their officer training started. For anyone who passes an OSB, make sure you've got you shit in order leading up to June/July.

Also, EttaJames, check you mailbox

CBR205
30th Mar 2018, 15:35
I get what your saying, but the civilian alternative isn't much better: 6 figure student debt then off to the outback to do tourist flights on 30k a year is the reality for most.

It's that or you have loaded parents who pay the $150,000 to secure you an airlines cadetship.

If I ever make it as a pilot in the ADF I am sure I will have my gripes, but serving your country has gotta be better than serving Qantas.

Pilots in general like most humans are a fickle bunch. I doubt many RAAF pilots would change joining if they had a time machine. But there comes a time for most where they either want out or get out. The grass is always greener after all.

The money is good depending on if you are on new or old pay scheme. But the locational instability and the effect that has on relationships outside of defence is likely the reason most get out.

quantify
3rd Apr 2018, 09:17
Hey Hans, great info on ASP and thanks. Do you think this website will be helpful for the exams? https ://pilotaptitudetest. com/knowledgebase/royal-air-force/ (remove the space between . and com and s and :) this is based off the RAF testing which is what I presume we have switched to going off what everyone is saying and a little bit of evidence in their joining instructions.

Not sure how accurate this is but seems like it matches with how many tests there are, 20 for ASP and about 19 on the website. Also Tarya/Hans , what order do you think the 7 domains go for the pilot tests and the 6 for mission elementary?

quantify
3rd Apr 2018, 09:43
Hans, great insight, I found a website which trains for RAF testing, it's called Pilot Aptitude tests and it has a data base of various defences forces and air lines, which also includes the tests for RAF and RAAF. It also matches with how many tests there will be on the day, which is about 20, and in the RAF data base, there are 19. Also Tarya/Hans, in what order do you think they prioritise the 7 domains for pilot and 6 domains for mission elementary?

tayra
3rd Apr 2018, 12:28
If you are referring to https://pilotaptitudetest.com/ then save your money it wont help you (my opinion). There is another similarly named website (pilot aptitude systems) which I believe is a well known scam. If it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars it's not worth it.

If the ADF are using the same weightings as the RAF (highly likely) then each of the 7 domains has a roughly equal weighting (11-16% of total score) for pilot whereas ATC/ACO is skewed heavily towards "strategic task management". Each domain has a specific stanine cutoff from the 2nd-5th stanine which in statistical terms essentially ranges from below average to average. One could assume the ADF gets a slightly right-shifted distribution of individuals compared to the general population so below average may not appear as so. If you fail to meet the cutoff in any domain you do not pass for that role regardless of overall score.

The testing feels very much like an "either you have it or you don't" situation. As far as preparation goes, I could only confidently say that mental maths practice had a definite positive effect on my score. That and 20+ years of solid video games is likely your best bet for success. So go do your timetables and play some PUBG.

quantify
3rd Apr 2018, 13:15
If you are referring to pilot then save your money it wont help you (my opinion). There is another similarly named website (pilot aptitude systems) which I believe is a well known scam. If it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars it's not worth it.

If the ADF are using the same weightings as the RAF (highly likely) then each of the 7 domains has a roughly equal weighting (11-16% of total score) for pilot whereas ATC/ACO is skewed heavily towards "strategic task management". Each domain has a specific stanine cutoff from the 2nd-5th stanine which in statistical terms essentially ranges from below average to average. One could assume the ADF gets a slightly right-shifted distribution of individuals compared to the general population so below average may not appear as so. If you fail to meet the cutoff in any domain you do not pass for that role regardless of overall score.

The testing feels very much like an "either you have it or you don't" situation. As far as preparation goes, I could only confidently say that mental maths practice had a definite positive effect on my score. That and 20+ years of solid video games is likely your best bet for success. So go do your timetables and play some PUBG.

Haha, great insight, I presume you have done the exams. From what I have gathered, there's no point trying to slack in any of the domains (not that I was planning to), my mental math is alright, could be better, gaming I've done since I was a child, was almost a professional in one at one stage. I think my hand eye coordination is ok, and my multi tasking maybe ok because in the game, I had to make fast paced decisions, communicate with my team and play well on the sticks. But I can't become over confident.

Also if you don't mind me asking, how many candidates passed in your session? was trying to calculate how many would be in an OSB pool before my session And was the short term memory stuff difficult? I struggle sometimes with that but I've seen significant improvement in my scores the last few days since I've been practising hard. Cheers.

hansfalkenhagen
3rd Apr 2018, 15:04
pilotaptitudetest.com is a joke. I paid the $70.00 and can quite confidently say it will not help.

Computer games will help on the provision you have good hand/eye coordination and spatial awareness in the first place. Do not jump on the Xbox the night before thinking that getting a few chicken dinners will somehow help. Like tayra said, it's either a case of you have it or you don't.

I lost a couple of points with the psychomotor test despite being pretty good at computer games myself. If you're tall like me (6'3") you may find this test a bit more difficult. Take the time to reposition the desk, chair and equipment. If you're tall you're knees will either hit the top of the desk or your feet will hit the back of the desk, depending on how you're positioned. This will mess you up a lot on a couple of tests. Another candidate in my group complained of this too. She was 6'2.

Go in confident and try to enjoy the experience. Even if you don't get an offer for a Pilot OSB still consider other roles. The ASP is a great opportunity for you to speak to ACOs/ATCs/ABMs/etc and to go on the base tours (yes DFR have paid me to say this). You might find you have a strong interest for one of the mission elementary roles while you're there. ATC certainly wasn't for me but I'd still strongly consider ACO and pursue a civilian license in my own time if I am unsuccessful with my first preference.

tayra
4th Apr 2018, 00:21
Also if you don't mind me asking, how many candidates passed in your session? was trying to calculate how many would be in an OSB pool before my session

Are you going for DEO or ADFA?

My group had 5 passes for pilot, 2 competitive. The group after had 4 passes for pilot with none competitive. Those pass rates were apparently quite high compared to prior groups.

Hunter16
4th Apr 2018, 02:50
Hi all,

My intention here is not to be spoon feed information on the new ASP for Officer candidates (starting early 2018), rather I wish to know if anyone has come across any helpful sites/links in regards to any of the following domains:

Perceptual processing
Short-term memory and capacity
Spatial reasoning
Symbolic reasoning
Central information processing

Any other helpful links for other domains for the new ADF Officer ASP would be GREATLY appreciated!

Cheers guys.

quantify
4th Apr 2018, 03:03
Thanks again Hans, will look into other roles if they interest me.

Tayra I am applying for ADFA, that seems very tough. By group do you mean the group of 12 in the same ASP or do you mean another ASP. My guess is in the same ASP. If ASP started in March and we assume they have had 1 asp per week until now, that would be about 5 ASPs, from 40 candidates around 8 pass on average (that's what I got told from someone else that has done the ASP) and say about 4 deemed competitive. That would be 20 candidates in the OSB pool as of now (give or take, no idea how accurate these estimates are, if anyone can find out the ASP schedule that would be great, on the RAAF website it says it was supposed to be up late 2017 but there's nothing there. Or if you have a better idea of how many actually progress to OSB). Also selection for ASP after your assessment day is not based of a pool like FSP was correct? If you passed assessment day, you were invited. Although if you weren't invited to flight screening (if they didn't deem your profile competitive) then even if you get a good score on ASP, your chances may still be low to get selected for OSB. But hey, at least they give you chance now.

Slezy9
4th Apr 2018, 03:51
Hi all,

My intention here is not to be spoon feed information on the new ASP for Officer candidates (starting early 2018), rather I wish to know if anyone has come across any helpful sites/links in regards to any of the following domains:

Perceptual processing
Short-term memory and capacity
Spatial reasoning
Symbolic reasoning
Central information processing

Any other helpful links for other domains for the new ADF Officer ASP would be GREATLY appreciated!

Cheers guys.

The briefest of searches would have sent you here...

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/333897-raaf-flight-screening-program-merged-181.html#post10106576

tayra
4th Apr 2018, 04:07
Each ASP course had 10 candidates on it. The testing room can seat up to 12. Numbers are probably limited by accommodation, chaperone staff availability etc.

As of the end of March around 120-130 candidates had been screened. Seems about 1 in 20 are getting a competitive score for pilot. That rate may go up as BFTS (soon to be 1FTS again) can accommodate more students and thus the competitive score goes down to increase supply.

A competitive score for ADFA pilot may well be lower because you won't be entering the training pipeline for several years.

I think you are right in that any candidates who pass all the requirements up to and including their assessment day will most likely get an ASP slot. It may well still be merit based but the time you'll wait will be much shorter than the wait for flight screening was.

quantify
4th Apr 2018, 04:58
Each ASP course had 10 candidates on it. The testing room can seat up to 12. Numbers are probably limited by accommodation, chaperone staff availability etc.

As of the end of March around 120-130 candidates had been screened. Seems about 1 in 20 are getting a competitive score for pilot. That rate may go up as BFTS (soon to be 1FTS again) can accommodate more students and thus the competitive score goes down to increase supply.

A competitive score for ADFA pilot may well be lower because you won't be entering the training pipeline for several years.

I think you are right in that any candidates who pass all the requirements up to and including their assessment day will most likely get an ASP slot. It may well still be merit based but the time you'll wait will be much shorter than the wait for flight screening was.

I have not heard of anyone being paneled for an OSB yet, pilot or aco/atc.

Ah ok, that makes sense, considering I won't be applying for direct entry, I hope there is a lower score lol, seems sort of unfair for the DE people but supply and demand, ah well, no point complaining. Also could you gauge how many people from your ASP (and past ones) applied for direct entry vs ADFA? Will that even matter? I should probably just worry about myself instead of trying to count my chances haha. Does anyone know how many ADFA pilot OSB's they hold per year? Guessing it'll change drastically since ASP has just rolled out.

Vatican
4th Apr 2018, 06:16
Hey guys, I'm hoping some of you guys may be able to help me out seeing as recruitment have given me nothing.

So I was given an 'advanced offer' back in December, their way of saying "your offer isn't ready yet but we want you to know you don't have to redo ASP". They slapped on a date of 18th May and that was it. It's now April and I've received no information as to what that date is for, when to attend a PFA session or any answers to any questions for that matter.

Does anyone have any insight into the wording of my offer being "effective from 18th May"? Is that the date I leave, the date I start OTS, etc.? I've asked my case manager but she knows nothing. Another thing no one seems to be able to tell me is what happens to my stuff (i.e. furniture, belongings, car) when I leave? I'm assuming they store it but is what happens in between my responsibility or theirs?

Also, has anyone had any experience in carting their own PC builds on to base or ditched it for a laptop/tablet? I realise it sounds like a dumb question but I don't want to do anything unneccessary if I don't have to.

Has anyone been able to squeeze out of a lease early due to Defence service?

I'd appreciate any answers or insight, thanks guys

hansfalkenhagen
4th Apr 2018, 08:53
Oh, and...

I believe DEO and ADFA ASP's are held separately. From what I know they were largely to be held this month to fit in with the school holiday period. So, who knows what the competitive score will be for ADFA candidates.

hansfalkenhagen
4th Apr 2018, 09:26
So I was given an 'advanced offer' back in December,

I have not heard of an "advanced offer". According to the RAAF website, if you were not given an actual offer prior to Jan 1st 2018 you will need to attend the ASP. Were you a pilot candidate or something else? Perhaps someone else reading this thread could jump in on this one?

At this point there are only intakes for July/August 2018. I did however hear rumours of a possible 5th course intake starting this May but don't quote me on it.

Another thing no one seems to be able to tell me is what happens to my stuff (i.e. furniture, belongings, car) when I leave?



Sorry, but I had to laugh at this. While it's the least of your concerns at this point, have a read through this:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=RAAF+OTS+joining+instructions&ie=&oe=

Squeezing out of a lease early is solely dependant on the landlord: basically whether they are a prick or not.

quantify
4th Apr 2018, 11:59
@hans That's great if the ADFA and DEO ASP is separate (hopefully that means lower score since there are more Pilot slots in ADFA especially at the start of the year), my chances aren't looking bad and I'm on ASP coming up quite soon so looks like I'll be one of the first few. Also, is there any tests which involve pen and paper (like additional testing / you session exams)? Or is it all mental arithmetic?

quantify
6th Apr 2018, 10:33
I can't really comment on that.

Like I've said many times before, the best thing you can do is practice any old aptitude test in general. Get used to reading and answering questions quickly and accurately.

"Preparing" yourself for the ASP will probably only get you a 5-10% increase in your results (besides good rest and nutrition). You can't really increase your cognitive ability or increase your IQ; it is what it is.

For most, there's bigger issues than your ASP grades. Recently I was reading a thesis on the Canadian military's pilot selection. It suggested that your psych evaluation will have just as heavy bearing on your chances of pilot selection as the ASP will. For example, those with higher levels of "consciousness" and lower levels of "extraversion" and "neuroticism" are looked upon much more favourably than those whose levels were reversed for these particular functions. Even for officer candidates in general, your second and third function for personality typing should be "intuited" and "thinking", with the first and fourth function having no bearing. This is the Five Factor Model and research started by Carl Jung, if anyone's not familiar with it).

While this is just speculation, I still think that this is perhaps why some candidates who scored higher than I did were not offered OSBs. The ADF know what they are looking for. There's not a lot you can do to change your traits, cognitive ability, personality functions, etc.

I'd just go along and try to enjoy the experience, and good luck!
Absolutely amazing stuff, can't believe you weren't recommended. This is very interesting, seems there's more to this than meets the eye. In the thesis, was there any mention of how these traits were determined and how old is this thesis? Are they based off some ASP results or your initial psych evaluation from assessment day

hansfalkenhagen
6th Apr 2018, 12:58
Absolutely amazing stuff, can't believe you weren't recommended. This is very interesting, seems there's more to this than meets the eye. In the thesis, was there any mention of how these traits were determined and how old is this thesis? Are they based off some ASP results or your initial psych evaluation from assessment day

I was recommended. I am still waiting on a date for my OSB.

The thesis was written in 2014 but is summarized from about 20 years of data.

The psych traits are determined during your assessment day. Your cognitive ability is determined during your ASP.

Your paperwork (on the provision you have received it by now) will list all the things ACMC take in to account when offering OSB's to certain candidates. I listed these a few pages back. Basically, countries like the UK, Canada, India, etc have had programs similar to the ASP for years. They have enough data to know exactly what type of candidate will pass pilot's training and thus not waste the ADF's time and the tax payer's dollar.

The ADF are essentially looking for specific indicators that define
successful pilot candidates:
- certain psychological traits
- a certain cut-off for cognitive aptitude testing
- high levels of motivation (so you don't have a cry half way through training and decide you want to quit)
- AVMED Class 1 (pretty self-explanatory)

How flexible they are on these indicators is anyone's guess.

Finally, during the OSB, I think the ADF will know within about 10 seconds of meeting you if they want to hire you or not.

Slezy9
7th Apr 2018, 01:30
They have enough data to know exactly what type of candidate will pass pilot's training and thus not waste the ADF's time and the tax payer's dollar.


If that's the case, how come so many people fail pilots course then?? Failure rates traditionally hover around the 30-40% level. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

My course started with 24 and finished with 9.

quantify
7th Apr 2018, 03:13
I was recommended. I am still waiting on a date for my OSB.

The thesis was written in 2014 but is summarized from about 20 years of data.

The psych traits are determined during your assessment day. Your cognitive ability is determined during your ASP.

Your paperwork (on the provision you have received it by now) will list all the things ACMC take in to account when offering OSB's to certain candidates. I listed these a few pages back. Basically, countries like the UK, Canada, India, etc have had programs similar to the ASP for years. They have enough data to know exactly what type of candidate will pass pilot's training and thus not waste the ADF's time and the tax payer's dollar.

The ADF are essentially looking for specific indicators that define
successful pilot candidates:
- certain psychological traits
- a certain cut-off for cognitive aptitude testing
- high levels of motivation (so you don't have a cry half way through training and decide you want to quit)
- AVMED Class 1 (pretty self-explanatory)

How flexible they are on these indicators is anyone's guess.

Finally, during the OSB, I think the ADF will know within about 10 seconds of meeting you if they want to hire you or not.
That;s great, hope you get the offer. What's interesting is something I overlooked and just realised about the selection of ASP candidates. In the invitation email, it said that if I wasn't available for the given dates, "I would be placed back in the competitive pool for a potential future offer", does this confirm that ASP is merit based? Also based on your speculation, if the psych evaluation conducted at assessment day is just as important as the ASP results, then one could say that getting an offer for ASP would prove difficult if they determined your psych was not suitable for pilot. But again, they are screening for 3 jobs and not just pilot so getting an offer regardless for other roles makes sense.

hansfalkenhagen
7th Apr 2018, 03:14
If that's the case, how come so many people fail pilots course then?? Failure rates traditionally hover around the 30-40% level. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

My course started with 24 and finished with 9.

So many people have failed pilot's course in Aus because it is much easier to pass the FSP than it is the ASP.

If everyone who sat your course completed the ASP before starting pilot's course, then chances are you would have only had 9 people start the course in the first place, effectively lowering the fail rate. See the point I am making here?

Somewhere along the lines someone in the ADF has said "hmmm... countries that use this particular cognitive test have a much lower fail-rate in pilot's course than we do. Perhaps we should change the FSP to the ASP, it is a cheaper alternative after all."

Slezy9
7th Apr 2018, 05:47
So many people have failed pilot's course in Aus because it is much easier to pass the FSP than it is the ASP.

If everyone who sat your course completed the ASP before starting pilot's course, then chances are you would have only had 9 people start the course in the first place, effectively lowering the fail rate. See the point I am making here?

Somewhere along the lines someone in the ADF has said "hmmm... countries that use this particular cognitive test have a much lower fail-rate in pilot's course than we do. Perhaps we should change the FSP to the ASP, it is a cheaper alternative after all."

No. The reason other countries have higher pass rates is because they have a different training philosophy. Take the Luftwaffe for example, once you're in you are given the hours required to meet there standard. In the RAAF you get 2 remedials, a psych consult and then a re-fly, fail that and you're potentially gone.

hansfalkenhagen
7th Apr 2018, 06:47
No. The reason other countries have higher pass rates is because they have a different training philosophy. Take the Luftwaffe for example, once you're in you are given the hours required to meet there standard. In the RAAF you get 2 remedials, a psych consult and then a re-fly, fail that and you're potentially gone.

than you better go visit hermann goring's grave and let him know his hiring practices were second to none

josephfeatherweight
7th Apr 2018, 10:05
So many people have failed pilot's course in Aus because it is much easier to pass the FSP than it is the ASP.
Hans, that's a big call at an early stage!
One can only hope the ASP turns out to be the filter that stops such attrition on Pilots' Course.
(My course was 8 graduates of 28 starters - which is a waste...)

hansfalkenhagen
7th Apr 2018, 10:18
Hans, that's a big call at an early stage!
One can only hope the ASP turns out to be the filter that stops such attrition on Pilots' Course.
(My course was 8 graduates of 28 starters - which is a waste...)

Not my opinion. It's the opinion i've read in several thesis written on the topic, with data collected since 1999. The ASP has the same computer test used by other militaries around the world

tayra
7th Apr 2018, 10:40
One can only hope the ASP turns out to be the filter that stops such attrition on Pilots' Course.


From my research and what I could squeeze out of those who are close to the new selection and training systems down in Sale; the ASP is not as good a predictor of success on pilots course up until wings level (it is, just not to a huge degree of statistical significance) as it is a predictor of successful completion of an operational conversion. Even though it is still a huge waste of money for someone to scrub out at BFTS or 2FTS it's relatively small compared to losing someone in their final weeks at 2OCU. At least with the new air academy it's very simple (or is intended to be) for someone to slot straight into another role should they fail early on.

I didn't get the privilege to attend flight screening but those on my ASP who had said that there was very little crossover. So objectively the ASP and flight screening are two completely different selection tools and being good at one doesn't necessitate being good at the other.

Also Hans, I wish as many people read my Masters thesis as that Canadian lady's.

josephfeatherweight
7th Apr 2018, 12:51
Even though it is still a huge waste of money for someone to scrub out at BFTS or 2FTS it's relatively small compared to losing someone in their final weeks at 2OCU.
That is indeed true!

hansfalkenhagen
7th Apr 2018, 13:27
So objectively the ASP and flight screening are two completely different selection tools and being good at one doesn't necessitate being good at the other.
.

I agree. Almost everyone in my group, and the other groups I had talked to, who had passed the FSP and OSB had failed the ASP. One guy had passed the ASP, but just barely.

There's a report that also says from the years 2010 to 2015, the RAF pass rate for commencing flying training to reaching the relevant operational conversion unit were as follows:

- Fast Jet: 78%
- Multi Engine: 93.6%
- Rotary: 91.8%

We have adopted the RAF's selection criteria. I don't believe we will ever have a 100% pass rate but we will certainly be seeing an improvement.

Slezy9
7th Apr 2018, 21:29
We have adopted the RAF's selection criteria. I don't believe we will ever have a 100% pass rate but we will certainly be seeing an improvement.

We may have adopted the RAF selection process but we haven't adopted the RAF training philosophy...

Remedial training time limits will still see 20-30% of people not pass pilots course.

BTW, you are very confident for someone who hasn't even set foot in the door... :ugh:

hansfalkenhagen
8th Apr 2018, 02:54
:ugh:

:eek:

_________________

donpizmeov
8th Apr 2018, 03:20
The RAF has everyone start a fast jet course. If a trainee fails this they will be streamed to multi eng or Rotarhead.
The RAAF has one completion standard. You either make it or you don't.
Because of this the RAF has always had a better pass rate.
The course I was on started a few months after Joseph's, 29 started and 19 passed.

layman
8th Apr 2018, 13:11
In addition to the preceding comments about training, my own observations about BFTS/2FTS are that the RAAF is as much about being able to quickly learn/adapt as it is in mastering required flying skills - hence the different approach.

With sufficient repetition most people who got to BFTS would likely complete 2FTS. But then military flying is rarely repetitious ...

junior.VH-LFA
9th Apr 2018, 06:42
18 started and 12 passed.

Agreed, you seem pretty good at telling a group of people (some of whom are QFIís with years of experience) how it is. Thatíll go down well on pilots course.

hansfalkenhagen
9th Apr 2018, 09:58
18 started and 12 passed.

Agreed, you seem pretty good at telling a group of people (some of whom are QFIís with years of experience) how it is. Thatíll go down well on pilots course.

Calm down, Junior. I have relayed information and statistics that have been made from people whom are much smarter than we are, that's it. I can link you the reports and theses if you like.

Like I've said before, this thread has been helpful to me so I have decided to share my experience of the ASP for those who are still waiting for an invite - it was a 10 month wait for most of us, and may be longer for those yet to receive an offer.

I think I'll make this my last post and just get on with it.

This is a thread is for aspiring pilots after all, not disgruntled ones. And cheer up in the mean time, you do have a fantastic career.

layman
9th Apr 2018, 13:20
Being smart and skilled isn't enough. Some examples:

Two ADFA graduates I knew, both with significant GA experience: one failed during BFTS; the other during 2FTS

Another student failed a re-test of the final sequence at BFTS. I later worked with a friend of theirs and was told the student was so stressed that failing the flight (and the course) came as a huge relief.

And another student was back-coursed because of (rumour had it) his 'attitude' toward instructors

JPJP
9th Apr 2018, 21:52
Calm down, Junior. I have relayed information and statistics that have been made from people whom are much smarter than we are, that's it. I can link you the reports and theses if you like.

Like I've said before, this thread has been helpful to me so I have decided to share my experience of the ASP for those who are still waiting for an invite - it was a 10 month wait for most of us, and may be longer for those yet to receive an offer.

I think I'll make this my last post and just get on with it.

This is a thread is for aspiring pilots after all, not disgruntled ones. And cheer up in the mean time, you do have a fantastic career.

I can see this ending in tears.

Bullethead
9th Apr 2018, 22:21
I completed my RAAF pilot course in 1976 and the scrub rate then was around 30% and the selection process was nowhere near as thorough or sophisticated as it appears to be these days which makes me wonder what benefit there is in having the RAAF flight screening process when the end result over the last 40+ years is essentially unchanged.

Cheers,
BH.

finestkind
10th Apr 2018, 00:59
BH

I have different figures. Srub rate was around 50+% in 80's and 90's. When all thru PC9 started scrub rate went up. Flight screening was introduced with the pass rate fluctuating between 55% and 65%. So definitely an improvement. But stats like photo's do lie. What do I mean? The old planning style of putting double the number you wanted on course to get the number you needed stuck. This simply means if we the RAAF had just put on the better risk people rather than filling the seats by placing high risk people on course the scrub rate would have been far less.

quantify
10th Apr 2018, 11:12
Can someone please explain how to do big division quickly in your head? I can simplify some fractions, but struggle with others.

You burn 150 kgs of fuel per hour. How much fuel will you need to travel 754 miles if you average a speed of 870 mph?

how do you divide the fraction of 754/870

You travel at an average speed of 190 mph. How much fuel do you need for a 114 mile trip if you burn 50 kgs per hour?

how do you simplify 114/190? I get it will become 57/95 after which I get stuck. Any help would be great, thanks.

Bullethead
10th Apr 2018, 12:02
Gíday finest,

Thanks for the extra info, I wasnít aware of the increase in the scrub rate in the 80s and 90s.

Cheers,
BH.

JPJP
10th Apr 2018, 21:05
Can someone please explain how to do big division quickly in your head? I can simplify some fractions, but struggle with others.

You burn 150 kgs of fuel per hour. How much fuel will you need to travel 754 miles if you average a speed of 870 mph?

how do you divide the fraction of 754/870

You travel at an average speed of 190 mph. How much fuel do you need for a 114 mile trip if you burn 50 kgs per hour?

how do you simplify 114/190? I get it will become 57/95 after which I get stuck. Any help would be great, thanks.

I’d use the fact that 60mph is a mile a minute, then work from there.

1. 870 mph is 14.5 miles per minute. (14*6 = 84 and half of 6 gets you the remaining 3 to get 87) use a factor of 10 to make the numbers smaller.

14.5 miles a minute, is 1450 miles in a 100 minutes. Half of 1450 is 725. So, in 50 minutes we cover 725 miles (nearly there) Add another 2 minutes at 14.5 miles per minute gets you to 753 and 52 minutes. Close enough. That’s .9 (ish) of an hour. .9 of 150 kg is 135kg.

They’ve given you numbers that work with mile/minute and it’s multiples. If it’s multiple choice, then you wouldn’t have to be so precise. Mile a minute, 3 times descent rates, and maybe 1 in 60 are some of the techniques that have a practical application. Most pilots are good at their 6 times tables.

There’s probably also a clever way to do it. I’m not clever ;)

AT591
11th Apr 2018, 09:51
Has anyone been invited to a pilot OSB (from March ASP's) or does anyone know of any invites being sent out?

The Ayatollah
11th Apr 2018, 10:38
Hey AT,

I haven't heard of any invites going out yet, but I know the next OSB for Brisbane candidates is in late May. If DFR have similar dates all around Australia, some invites might be going out in the next few weeks.

Rich.ieP
12th Apr 2018, 04:50
In addition to May, my case manager also said in August.

spandexo
19th Apr 2018, 04:05
Hi all

I am attending the 7th-10th May ASP.
If anyone is on the same course feel free to get in touch via private message.

Rich.ieP
20th Apr 2018, 01:24
So the round of offers for OSB have started to go out. I just received one for the 14th-18th week in May. It appears that we only pick one day so perhaps the OSB is shorter now? Does anyone have any information on this?
Thanks

tayra
21st Apr 2018, 06:39
All DEO aircrew OSBs are now lumped in with all other officer entry roles so you will just do the standard one day ROSB at your local or closest major DFRC.

Jaxom1
21st Apr 2018, 18:59
Hi guys,

Long term lurker, not sure if it's appropriate to post here. 25, work in management consulting in the US.
I have a undergraduate degree in Economics/Finance.

I'm an Australian Citizen, who moved over after undergraduate studies to Washington DC for work. I think ever since I was 16 I always had a desire to pursue a career in the RAAF however I wasn't confident I would be successful and hence went with the safe option. However after 1-2 years of work I still look back and keep thinking what-if. Job is great in terms of pay/benefits but I keep thinking nearly every weekend or fortnight I should've just gone for broke when I was younger and apply. Is it too late now? I have attempted a few times to apply but have withdrawn my application beforehand.

I'm not sure what this says about my personality of if i'd even be a good fit. Or am I even too old, I've also noticed my vision which use to be better than 20-20 at 18 has now started to suffer a bit at long distance, from doing too much excel modelling and powerpoint in front of a computer.

Pillymonkey
22nd Apr 2018, 01:28
Hi all,

Just wondering what the general waiting time is between finishing your assessment day and being offered a spot at ASP? I assume itís not too much of a wait as the program is only two days now..?

Regards.

SHT
22nd Apr 2018, 04:52
Jaxom and whoever else wants to read,

I am also a long time lurker, first time poster, and let me start by saying, yes Jaxom, you posting here is appropriate!

I started to become motivated to make comment recently seeing some pretty bad advise getting thrown around by somebody who seems to Ďknow it allí, and not take the hint from people in the actual know when it is time to take the humble and helpful road, vice the big nothing road. But ultimately I couldnít be bothered, as the system has a way of sorting those people out eventually. However your post has inspired me to comment after a long time of watching from the back of the bus.

Your story sounds very similar to mine if I went back 10+ years, but skip forward and I have had and am still having a very successful career as a RAAF pilot.

I was the same age as you are now when I joined, I even read this thread back then too! And like you I was unsure as to whether I was good enough or who they wanted. I was scared of failure, as I tried to get in when I was 17 at school and failed all of the pilot aptitude testing miserably! I had the psychologist tell me to my face I was not smart enough and should consider another career.... I was destroyed, and thought it would never happen and I was too scared to go back for the longest time. But like you I kept coming back to wanting to do it, but I just couldnít muster up the courage to apply.... till one day I just took the leap and the rest is history.

So how do you ask did I turn it around? Simple.... I worked my arse off!

17 year old me had read a couple of recruiting pamphlets, and I knew I always wanted to do it, and because I wanted it so bad I deserved it right? Wrong. So I just turned up, completely unprepared, and the result unsurprisingly was a big fat fail.

Skip to 25 year old me, who didnít want a repeat of my experience at 17, because to be quite honest at the time it was life shattering, So I decided to prepare as best I could. I did all sorts of things, from Prep courses for maths, aptitude testing courses, visited several bases, spoke to actual pilots, lived and breathed it and worked my butt off.

So a bit of advice regarding some of the stuff I have read on here lately....

Now we could sit here and debate whether ASP is harder or easier than FSP, what traits they are testing for, what scores mean what and etc etc.....
But the reality is that none of that is useful to any of you, and the so called info regarding ASP scores etc you have all read in this thread is at best guesswork, and again not useful to you.

What is relevant to all of you is that ASP exists, there is nothing you can do about that, and you need to pass it to progress.

Sharing the gouge(good info) is one of the first lessons we teach you at the schools, and thatís what this thread should be about. I have seen comments from people not willing to divulge any gouge as to what is involved in the testing, telling you you canít prepare you either have it or you donít... make no mistake about it, this person is wrong and what we call a gouge hoarder, out there for himself, not to help out. Thatís not how we operate in the aircrew world.

I am a QFI at one of the schools at the moment, and I have seen all kinds come through over the last few years, and I have seen all kinds not make it as well.
I can tell you that myself and all of my aircrew brethren would rather train a weaker candidate, with a good attitude that has to work their ass off to keep up, than the natural with a superior attitude who is not a team player. The later puts a bad taste in our mouths, and we will often weed them out, because frankly they donít belong in the RAAF.

So why do I say all of this.... I say it for those of you out there that read some of the overly cocky comments on here from some of the recruiting warriors amongst you (you have all met one I am sure) and think maybe I am not as good as that guy/girl. Make no mistake, the false bravado is designed to put off the competition, and usually their puffed up story of how well they are doing is greatly exaggerated.

Now I am not going to lie, I know next to nothing about ASP and I cannot help you with that, thatís what sharing the gouge and all you lot are for! But I do know what product we are looking for, and I know who makes it through training as I see them and teach them everyday. Some of my proudest moments instructing have been seeing some of my struggling students get wings at the end from sheer will, determination and grit. Nobody, and I mean nobody gets through Pilots course by themselves.

So my advice would be this....

Be humble and help each other.

Share the gouge, give yourselves the best chance to find a way to prepare for the testing.

Ignore the naysayers, there is always a way to prepare for everything, you just need to find it!

Whilst you are in competition for a spot, run your own race, donít worry about anybody else and how they may be doing. Remember other people need to pass too for you to have course mates! Start the teamwork now.

Finally, anonymous forums are one thing, but go and call a base and ask to be put through to a squadron, and ask to speak to a pilot. I have been on the other end of the line many times over the years and it always impresses. Get the advice from the horses mouth, rather than the recruiting warriors.

Finally, Good luck to everybody, and to Jaxon, you owe it to yourself to have a shot mate, donít die wondering!

SHT

Jaxom1
22nd Apr 2018, 14:10
Thanks SHT, I actually grew up in Perth! I'll give it a shot calling a few of the bases, if not i have 3 weeks of Holiday (sigh USA) which I could use head back home and do some intense "networking" haha.. Time is short.Would love to have a chat if your free sometime as-well if your cool with that.

Jax

donpizmeov
22nd Apr 2018, 15:58
What a great post SHT. The best info so far on this thread.

flighthappens
22nd Apr 2018, 20:32
Jaxom and whoever else wants to read,

I am also a long time lurker, first time poster, and let me start by saying, yes Jaxom, you posting here is appropriate!

I started to become motivated to make comment recently seeing some pretty bad advise getting thrown around by somebody who seems to Ďknow it allí, and not take the hint from people in the actual know when it is time to take the humble and helpful road, vice the big nothing road. But ultimately I couldnít be bothered, as the system has a way of sorting those people out eventually. However your post has inspired me to comment after a long time of watching from the back of the bus.

Your story sounds very similar to mine if I went back 10+ years, but skip forward and I have had and am still having a very successful career as a RAAF pilot.

I was the same age as you are now when I joined, I even read this thread back then too! And like you I was unsure as to whether I was good enough or who they wanted. I was scared of failure, as I tried to get in when I was 17 at school and failed all of the pilot aptitude testing miserably! I had the psychologist tell me to my face I was not smart enough and should consider another career.... I was destroyed, and thought it would never happen and I was too scared to go back for the longest time. But like you I kept coming back to wanting to do it, but I just couldnít muster up the courage to apply.... till one day I just took the leap and the rest is history.

So how do you ask did I turn it around? Simple.... I worked my arse off!

17 year old me had read a couple of recruiting pamphlets, and I knew I always wanted to do it, and because I wanted it so bad I deserved it right? Wrong. So I just turned up, completely unprepared, and the result unsurprisingly was a big fat fail.

Skip to 25 year old me, who didnít want a repeat of my experience at 17, because to be quite honest at the time it was life shattering, So I decided to prepare as best I could. I did all sorts of things, from Prep courses for maths, aptitude testing courses, visited several bases, spoke to actual pilots, lived and breathed it and worked my butt off.

So a bit of advice regarding some of the stuff I have read on here lately....

Now we could sit here and debate whether ASP is harder or easier than FSP, what traits they are testing for, what scores mean what and etc etc.....
But the reality is that none of that is useful to any of you, and the so called info regarding ASP scores etc you have all read in this thread is at best guesswork, and again not useful to you.

What is relevant to all of you is that ASP exists, there is nothing you can do about that, and you need to pass it to progress.

Sharing the gouge(good info) is one of the first lessons we teach you at the schools, and thatís what this thread should be about. I have seen comments from people not willing to divulge any gouge as to what is involved in the testing, telling you you canít prepare you either have it or you donít... make no mistake about it, this person is wrong and what we call a gouge hoarder, out there for himself, not to help out. Thatís not how we operate in the aircrew world.

I am a QFI at one of the schools at the moment, and I have seen all kinds come through over the last few years, and I have seen all kinds not make it as well.
I can tell you that myself and all of my aircrew brethren would rather train a weaker candidate, with a good attitude that has to work their ass off to keep up, than the natural with a superior attitude who is not a team player. The later puts a bad taste in our mouths, and we will often weed them out, because frankly they donít belong in the RAAF.

So why do I say all of this.... I say it for those of you out there that read some of the overly cocky comments on here from some of the recruiting warriors amongst you (you have all met one I am sure) and think maybe I am not as good as that guy/girl. Make no mistake, the false bravado is designed to put off the competition, and usually their puffed up story of how well they are doing is greatly exaggerated.

Now I am not going to lie, I know next to nothing about ASP and I cannot help you with that, thatís what sharing the gouge and all you lot are for! But I do know what product we are looking for, and I know who makes it through training as I see them and teach them everyday. Some of my proudest moments instructing have been seeing some of my struggling students get wings at the end from sheer will, determination and grit. Nobody, and I mean nobody gets through Pilots course by themselves.

So my advice would be this....

Be humble and help each other.

Share the gouge, give yourselves the best chance to find a way to prepare for the testing.

Ignore the naysayers, there is always a way to prepare for everything, you just need to find it!

Whilst you are in competition for a spot, run your own race, donít worry about anybody else and how they may be doing. Remember other people need to pass too for you to have course mates! Start the teamwork now.

Finally, anonymous forums are one thing, but go and call a base and ask to be put through to a squadron, and ask to speak to a pilot. I have been on the other end of the line many times over the years and it always impresses. Get the advice from the horses mouth, rather than the recruiting warriors.

Finally, Good luck to everybody, and to Jaxon, you owe it to yourself to have a shot mate, donít die wondering!

SHT

Absolutely. F*cking. Nailed it.

I would also add: donít be the guy/gal that says ďI wish I prepped/studied moreĒ. Whether thatís at the end of screening/ XFTS/ aircraft type conversion.

You get 1 chance. Much of how it plays out, is in your hands. Make it count.

Nadroj31
23rd Apr 2018, 07:40
SHT;


Thanks SHT, I have my ASP on the 7th and 8th of May and your reading your post has help ease my nerves.

tayra
23rd Apr 2018, 08:21
In the interest of discussion and because some of that was directed at me I'll bite.

Before you go accusing me of hoarding wood-turning tools let me preface all of this by saying I have already helped numerous people who've messaged me here on pprune, facebook, reddit etc asking anything from ASP preparation tips and maths help to what to wear.

I have a background tutoring and teaching at University. My approach to helping people has always been transactional. That is, I'm more than happy to help, point someone in the right direction and answer questions if they, the student or whoever, has actually made an attempt to help themselves first. I would often get questions which essentially boiled down to "please immediately provide an answer to this overly broad and nuanced problem I have". Those were the people I did not help. If however someone came to me saying; "here's the problem I have, I think these are the issues I need to address, I've identified these avenues as possible solutions, can you help me?" I would be more than happy to jump in and give them everything I had to offer.
I've been getting the same sorts of questions about the ASP. There are those who just want a nudge in the right direction to keep conducting their own research or those who think I should detail all 20 tests, what each contains and decent strategies for approaching all of them. Would you help both of those people?

You don't have to go back very far in this thread at all to see all manner of questions shot down by the very same BFTS/2FTS instructors preaching about teamwork and helping your mates. Instead it was: "Read this thread, do your research, you'll never become an Officer in the RAAF if you can't solve these problems on your own." So, in the same vein, it has been alluded to already that the ASP involves the very same battery of tests that the RAF uses. The term "RAF CBAT" should be all you need to find every possible bit of information about what will be on and how to prepare for the ASP.

Obviously when you are in the RAAF and on pilots course helping your course mates out is the name of the game. This was already the spirit of things on my ASP so you needn't despair for us too much yet. I'm interested to hear where you and others draw the line between helping/supporting and cheating/fairness. People are told not to detail the inner workings of an OSB to other candidates as it undermines the selection process so why doesn't that apply in this case?

As far as what I suggested previously as preparation. I said some of the testing "feels like you either have it or you don't". This seems to be the consensus not just from me but from those who've recently completed the ASP and from the thousands of posts from those who've attempted it in the UK and Canada. On the second night of my ASP I stayed up giving a few candidates from the next course info about all the tests they would be doing the following afternoon and how I approached them. I warned them that it likely wouldn’t help a whole lot and after doing them they agreed that it didn't provide much help outside of a slight confidence boost and an easier night’s sleep. So you can say that it's wrong all you want but to quote one of your ilk from a previous page "you haven’t done it, don’t pretend you know more than the people who have." (sweeping statements fly both ways) :}

The only perfect preparation for the ASP would be to program your own copy of the tests but doing that you'd risk the postie delivering something addressed to you with a UK MoD letterhead. Even then, those crafty psychologists that be have created tests with very high test-retest reliability so they would be arguing that you can’t prepare at all. If you don't want to take an interest if how testing like this is designed and scored that's fine but there could be a reality that maybe it can't be prepared for as much as you'd like it to.

All that being said and despite how overtly defensive it might read, thank you for your insight, I and others will most certainly take it on board. Hopefully we can continue to discuss it without the hostility that pprune is known for.

hansfalkenhagen
23rd Apr 2018, 09:26
Great write-up Tayra, but I think I should definitely bear some of the brunt for some of the comments made recently.

I too have been receiving lots of emails and messages which were either thanking me for my input or asking me to elaborate on further points. However, I felt as though there’s a line where if you paint too-perfect a picture of the ASP tests, then you run the risk of creating a false representation of what is actually being tested. This would only come to the candidate’s own detriment.

Truth be told, the best way to prepare for the ASP is to actually have a physical copy of the darn thing and practice it and it alone. Seeing that this isn’t an option, we’ve always said things along the lines of “practice your mental arithmetic, practice aptitude tests in general, get used to reading, understanding and answering questions quickly and accurately, get a good night’s sleep, have good nutrition every day in the weeks leading up to the day, etc”.

If one was to read all posts starting from the 10th of March they’d see that all the clues are there. We have given a lot of info and insight without running the risk of getting ourselves into any kind of troubles with DFR. Some of us completed the ASP soon after it started and we didn’t have anyone we could ask for help or insight. Yet, we still passed! We’ve also come back to this thread to pass on any info we can.

However, when you do come back to this thread it does make it hard when you get shot-down for actually trying to help others. I was always warned of the negativity on this forum and am surprised that there are officers who spend their time on here trying to belittle one another or other aspiring pilots.

It’s funny when you read some of the negative comments from certain users on this forum. It’s easy enough to click on the “see user’s other posts” and see all of the other negative comments they make on other threads. It’s kind of like a toxic thread for a minority of disgruntled RAAF pilots to congregate and complain about things while having a bunch of aspiring pilots visit the thread and think to themselves “shit, this isn’t what I expected an ADF Officer to be!”.

With all of this being said, I was very surprised with a recent interaction between two users: Bullethead and Finestkind.

Bullethead: ”I completed my RAAF pilot course in 1976 and the scrub rate then was around 30% and the selection process was nowhere near as thorough or sophisticated as it appears to be these days which makes me wonder what benefit there is in having the RAAF flight screening process when the end result over the last 40+ years is essentially unchanged.
Cheers,
BH.”

Finestkind: “BH, I have different figures. Srub rate was around 50+% in 80's and 90's. When all thru PC9 started scrub rate went up. Flight screening was introduced with the pass rate fluctuating between 55% and 65%. So definitely an improvement. But stats like photo's do lie. What do I mean? The old planning style of putting double the number you wanted on course to get the number you needed stuck. This simply means if we the RAAF had just put on the better risk people rather than filling the seats by placing high risk people on course the scrub rate would have been far less.

BulletHead: “G’day finest, Thanks for the extra info, I wasn’t aware of the increase in the scrub rate in the 80s and 90s.
Cheers,
BH.”

I mean, c’mon. Holy shit. One bloke made a statement, and another didn’t entirely agree with it yet they still kept it civil and both learned something from the interaction . Bullethead even thanked Finestkind for the extra info too. This must be a first for pprune!

Tayra, I don’t know if you’d be keen, but I’d love to see a new “Aviation Screening Program” thread started so new candidates can find it easily through a simple google search. I’d like to see you make the first post with some of your insight into the ASP. Possibly with a follow-up from “SHT” too which I think would be invaluable.

SHT
24th Apr 2018, 00:28
Ok, so I seem to have struck a chord with a couple of you, which believe it or not is a good thing!

I spent a bit of time prior to replying here, as itís easy to have an emotional and defensive response, which letís face it is fairly natural, but often it will skew the message trying to be sent. So instead I have thought hard about how to make my points in a constructive way for all who read, and hopefully I will hit the mark....

Firstly a little background as to what I am about to say.

I obviously know a lot of RAAF pilots, I have been around the traps for a while, and I can tell you there are good ones, not so good ones, nice ones and not so nice ones, a mixed bag really. But whilst we all have our differences, fundamentally we are all very similar people, with very similar values. You could put this down to recruiting and the psych assessment if you like, and I would attribute part of this to that, but I would attribute the majority to our shared experience of a combination of basic training and pilots course. Usually even the most cocky amongst us are humbled very quickly on course, as it is easily the hardest thing you will have ever done and everybody struggles at some point. It is a very humbling experience, and excellent character building!

Like I said we all think in a very similar way, we all have the same pride (think slight superiority complex) due to what we have undertaken and achieved. Now because we all think the same, one of the things I can tell you is that none of us outside of PSA, and probably within, have much faith in the fact that a test designed by psychs can be more effective than
putting somebody on pilots course for 2 weeks (FSP) and seeing what actual flying/ learning aptitude they have. At FSP if you were an absolute weapon, and got a good wrap from your QFI, the OSB was almost a formality. Now I am not trying to start a discussion on the merits of FSP vs ASP, nor diminish anybodyís Achievements of passing ASP here, as from what I understand it is very hard with a high failure rate, I am merely building towards a point.

Now this is all just my opinion, but I know it is shared by many of my peers and I see no real reason why it would differ in the eyes of the people on your board, shy of towing the party line.

The point I have been building to, is that the OSB has always been a big part of the process, but I believe now more than ever it will be a much bigger discriminator than in the past, as every FSP candidate automatically sat a board, whereas it doesnít sound that way for ASP. They also had a report and recommendation from an actual QFI vs just a test score. What this means for you guys out there, is you need to be well prepared and check your egos at the door as your job just got a little harder as they donít know as much about you and your personality before you walk into that very scary door.

Now this brings me to the ultimate goal of this post, you are going to be assessed by people like me, with the same experience base, and the same expectations. We would be looking for the same things. I would like you all to think about the following 3 things:

Perception is reality. We only get to see you for a short amount of time, especially now with the introduction of ASP.

Respect is hard earned and easily lost.

Good bloke factor. Apologies to any ladies reading this, it applies to you too I just donít really know how to word that. This will go a long long way in your favour.

Ultimately what the OSB are asking themselves throughout your interview, is would I want to be on Squadron with this person? If the answer is yes, you will get recommended.

Now back to having struck a chord....

On course we will often do a thing called buddy debriefing, where you will bring a buddy into your debrief and he listens to all your debrief points, warts and all, then you theirs. The aim of this not to embarrass, but to hopefully learn from others mistakes and triumphs, which may prevent you making the same mistake.

Now make no mistake about it, 80% of a debrief will focus on where you went wrong, the route cause and how to fix it. So students need to learn to accept constructive criticism very early on, and take whatís said in the debrief for the learning opportunity it is or they wonít last long. The biggest barrier to success is a student who believes they know more than the instructor, doesnít accept their mistakes, and instead makes excuses. They wonít see through their own defensiveness and take the lessons on board, and in turn they wonít learn and improve. I have seen many a student like this suspended from course. Their own ego is their undoing.

The reality is as a student you donít know what you donít know. You need to trust in your QFI, they want to see you pass, if for nothing else than failing you is way to much hard work 😉

Now to Tayra and Hans, please consider this post your buddy debrief. You have both done some great work on here in helping others, and it sounds like more behind the scenes, I congratulate you on that and encourage you to keep it up, goes towards that good bloke factor(again sorry ladies)!

However from what I have seen you both also have had tendencyís to at times be the student with the barrier mentioned above, in that I have read some interactions with a combination of knowing better and with me excuse making and blaming others.

Now it is difficult to sometimes ascertain tone through writing, which can potentially skew what you are trying to say, I understand that, and I am only going off what I have read. In person you guys may be 180 out, but it would be remiss of me not to address this. Some of what you have written has bugged some fellow Aircrew and if I am being honest myself. Now remember as I said earlier we all think the same way. My concern is that if I have seen it here, it could come out in group activities at the OSB, which is basically being assessed by us.

As I said earlier respect is hard earned and easily lost, please remember that on here next time before biting back at somebody else. If they make an overly negative comment, take the high road and ignore it. Please donít diminish all the good work you guys have done on this thread!

Not just to you two guys, but to everybody, read through the above again and take a critical look at yourselves and make an honest assessment. Does he make a valid point? Could I have handled that better? How could I react next time etc... The key to improvement is accepting that you can make mistakes, assess them and try to find a way from letting them re-occur.

So in finishing, please donít take the debrief as a dig, but as a debrief is supposed to be taken. You can rest assured that you have both helped a lot of people out there, both intentionally and unintentionally.

I am on here as I am trying to help, and I would honestly like be nothing more than to see a post from you guys telling us all you will be starting some time soon.

Cheers

SHT

SHT
24th Apr 2018, 02:35
Hey guys, sorry just a quick addition of a story that might help to add a little context to where I am coming from....

A little while ago we had a student that was pretty solid with flying, but he was very difficult in debriefs. He was quite sure of himself and more often than not would become very defensive with the QFIís points, and displayed a few of the tendencies that I previously mentioned. He very quickly got a bad rep amongst us and people didnít really want to fly with the guy. So my boss came to me and asked me to talk to him and sort it out.

Now I can tell you it was expecting a very difficult and awkward conversation, and this is pretty much word for word what I said....

ďDude your flying is solid, but in the debriefs most QFIís think you are a bit of a dickĒ

Sounds harsh, but I am a rip the band aid off when it comes to bad news kind of guy. Now thatís how it started, and I obviously elaborated with some pretty specific examples.....

So what was the reaction on the other side of the conversation..... he was completely mortified! He had no idea that he was perceived that way, and he was especially embarrassed that the QFI body had that view of him.

The good news here was his reaction, he clearly wasnít intending to come across that way and had not realised how he was being perceived.

The result was he changed the way he operated, people became happy to fly with him and he ultimately got better. He actually thanked me for having that conversation when he got his wings.

I guess take what you want from that story, but hopefully there is a lesson there that everybody can benefit from.

Perception is often reality.

SHT

FarQues
24th Apr 2018, 04:31
This must be a first for pprune!

It is nonsense like that which unfortunately cheapens your argument. Aside from that, however, some good points, decently presented.

Folks like yourself and Tayra have been immeasurably helpful in passing on info regarding ASP and the wider recruitment process. However that doesn't exempt you from reproach. All that carry on about whether someone should apply themselves equally to both Mission and Pilot testing at ASP a couple pages back was unnecessary, and clearly left a sour taste in a lot of users mouths. Now that doesn't particularly excuse some of the thinly veiled sledges thrown around since, but there is a fairly clear cause and effect that goes on.

Something to bear in mind is that these are potentially your future colleagues and superiors you're interacting with here, it could be beneficial to try and not look like a prick before you're even through the door (that stands for everyone). Whether they're in the wrong or not, getting into a shouting match through the medium of an "anonymous" online forum is not the appropriate course of action.

Perhaps a clean slate couldn't hurt though. And seeing as good as all of this thread is now outdated, an ASP specific one would make life easy for future candidates.

Farq.

hansfalkenhagen
24th Apr 2018, 15:05
SHT & FarQues;

Thanks for these posts. I think I and many others will benefit from it. This is what constructive criticism/recommendations should all be about. It has given much for me to think about and much for me to take on board.

All that carry on about whether someone should apply themselves equally to both Mission and Pilot testing at ASP a couple pages back was unnecessary, and clearly left a sour taste in a lot of users mouths. Now that doesn't particularly excuse some of the thinly veiled sledges thrown around since, but there is a fairly clear cause and effect that goes on.

I remember reflecting on this and thinking it was a bit of a dick move. To elaborate on what I tried to say; both the Pilot and M.E tests are held on separate days but you won't actually know which test is which. For this reason I do urge everyone to still try their best for both tests!

Nevertheless, best of luck to everyone still in the process.

Rich.ieP
25th Apr 2018, 14:58
HI all,

Just passing on some info I have received.
It seems both Air Force and Navy OSB invites are going/gone out (Good luck to everyone!). The dates are; 14th-18th May for Air Force, 21st-25th May for Navy.

All the best.

13Beast
27th Apr 2018, 21:10
From my research and what I could squeeze out of those who are close to the new selection and training systems down in Sale; the ASP is not as good a predictor of success on pilots course up until wings level (it is, just not to a huge degree of statistical significance) as it is a predictor of successful completion of an operational conversion. Even though it is still a huge waste of money for someone to scrub out at BFTS or 2FTS it's relatively small compared to losing someone in their final weeks at 2OCU. At least with the new air academy it's very simple (or is intended to be) for someone to slot straight into another role should they fail early on.


I have always wondered, what would happen to someone who successfully got their wings, passed fast jet training, yet failed their operational conversion course onto a JSF/Rhino/Growler? Would they be kept on as a pilot still within the RAAF, just sent off onto a conversion course for a different, non-fast jet airframe (i.e. C17/P8/tanker/C27 etc)?

layman
28th Apr 2018, 03:03
Some examples I'm aware of people who completed 2FTS:

* "failed" during OCU, ended up as a QFI at Pearce at 79 Sqdn
* "failed" during training at 76 Sqdn and had a long (and successful) career in a variety of RAAF squadrons before joining the airlines
* "failed" after 2FTS during training on a non-fast jet type. Never flew operationally
* a couple who only ever flew one operational tour ... possibly just weren't cut out for the type of flying expected of them.

These 'failures' are relative - most would seem to be good pilots perhaps not suited to the demands of flying required by the RAAF

On a more optimistic note, I know of many more that were successful all the way through and served multiple operational tours.

From my observations, 2FTS means you have your "L" plates ... you'll then do a type conversion, possibly an operational conversion, and then (for non-fast jets) start on the process of training for your captainancy - and then might switch types and start the process again. It seems you never stop learning in the RAAF

regards
layman

josephfeatherweight
28th Apr 2018, 09:57
Would they be kept on as a pilot still within the RAAF, just sent off onto a conversion course for a different, non-fast jet airframe (i.e. C17/P8/tanker/C27 etc)?
Absolutely, positively - yes. And, probably the conversion of their preference.

13Beast
28th Apr 2018, 22:48
Thanks for the quick responses guys! It is fantastic to hear direct from past and present RAAF pilots themselves as to the ins and outs of these sorts of things.

All three of you have confirmed what I had hoped was the case; that after getting your wings yet subsequently not quite meeting the grade for a particular airframe conversion, you are still a pilot who the RAAF is committed to finding a role that you can fulfill and that you won't be out on the street looking for a new job.

Couple further question; given now it appears fast jet training will ultimately intend to be streaming graduates out into either Super Hornets, Growlers or JSF; would this be determined largely due to slots in squadrons that are available, or would a bunch of other factors go into determining which of the three airframes the RAAF decides is for you?

Growlers for instance seem really interesting in what they do, yet with 12 (now 11) Growlers, compared to 24 Rhinos and an incoming 72 JSFs, would this make a Growler slot probably the most competitive of the bunch to get in?

And would the focus on the RAAF be more to train up new pilots onto JSFs, and source Growler pilots from existing Rhino pilots who perhaps can convert relatively quickly across to the Growler platform?

Again, I have no idea how it is going to work with the three fast jet platforms, and if the RAAF will go all out and have three conversion courses running at all times for new pilots, or try to save $$$ and try to do what I mentioned above; i.e. sourcing Growler crews from existing Rhino/ex-Hornet single seat pilots, and given the numbers split between the three fast jet platforms, instead focusing a LOT more on training up new pilots for the 72 JSFs coming rather than the existing 24 Super Hornets?

Slezy9
30th Apr 2018, 01:18
I don't know what the current way of doing things is but in the past, the guys who performed the best on Intro Fighter Course (76SQN) went to the single seat, the Classic Hornet, the others the Pig.

That's not to say the Pig pilots were worse pilots, but just they way it generally worked out.

I guess the thinking is that the Nav will help do some of the duties...

13Beast
3rd May 2018, 03:47
I don't know what the current way of doing things is but in the past, the guys who performed the best on Intro Fighter Course (76SQN) went to the single seat, the Classic Hornet, the others the Pig.

That's not to say the Pig pilots were worse pilots, but just they way it generally worked out.

I guess the thinking is that the Nav will help do some of the duties...


Thanks Slezy9. Interesting to know that. I often wondered if the instructors etc over the course of fast-jet training may indeed have a "top" fast jet that they stream the best performers on to. Also, if your own interpersonal skills as observed during the course of flight training would be a determinant in them ultimately deciding if you'd be better as a single seat pilot or working together with a fellow ACO/Nav.

Certainly makes it interesting with the three fast jets now, especially given how something like the Growler is quite unique in the RAAF now. Curious to see what sort of pilot they'd be thinking would be more suited for an EW role in the Growler as opposed to a more traditional strike role in a Rhino or JSF. And then again, who'd be better in a single seat strike fighter role (JSF) as opposed to a multi crew (Rhino).

finestkind
3rd May 2018, 03:58
Slezy9

Times may have changed. in my day you were posted to an aircraft type, hence F1-11. Nothing to do with your performance on fast jet conversion etc.

junior.VH-LFA
3rd May 2018, 10:40
I suspect you’re vastly over analysing the posting process.

Best performers get first preference, worst performers get last. Everyone gets something. You gotta be in it to win it though.

josephfeatherweight
3rd May 2018, 12:17
I suspect you’re vastly over analysing the posting process.
13 Beast - I also humbly suggest you're concerning yourself with this stuff at a SERIOUSLY early stage in the process - get in, and give it your best!

13Beast
3rd May 2018, 19:22
Thanks guys. Sure, I may be thinking far ahead, but this is all part of my enthusiasm and looking forward to what may eventuate if I worked hard enough and made it that far. Most definitely am aware that there is a LOT of hard work and hurdles to even make it that far, and focusing on tasks week by week in flight school, listening to the QFIs, helping/sharing with my peers, staying positive and motivated and always putting in the hours hitting the books and working on improving my flying and working on my weaknesses is the way to go. Making wings is a tremendous achievement in itself, let alone being one of those skilled few to be selected to go on to fast jet training.

josephfeatherweight
3rd May 2018, 23:36
:ok:

You've got a good attitude - you'll do well!

BordZ
7th May 2018, 04:58
Hi All,

This thread has been a goldmine of info. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed. I have ASP at the end of this month and the advice given through this thread has really given me some perspective on what to expect. It has also helped me formulate a study plan so I can be Better prepared then I would have been.

Once again thanks all.

cryptoniqht
7th May 2018, 11:45
Hi guys and gals,

I recently graduated uni with a Bachelors in Comp Sci and started the long application process for Pilot/ACO with my assessment day in a few weeks time. This thread has been incredibly helpful with providing material for preparation as well as insights into what the later stages of the process are like (ASP/OSB).

I originally wanted to apply for ACO as sitting behind a screen has always been my thing and I didn't think I had the competitive edge to make it through the pilot process. However I have since changed my mind and am now applying for both positions.

I was curious about those that have applied with a university degree, how much weight did this carry throughout the process? I am wondering as my grades in uni weren't exactly stellar (Credit Average) and my maths is a bit lacking as I only did General Maths in Year 12. I realise I am only still in the early stages of the process with my assessment day coming up but was curious if they went into much detail about your performance and extracurriculars at uni.

Cheers

seahawk01
7th May 2018, 13:12
Hi all,

I am currently in year 11, and was wondering whether anyone would be able to let me know whether doing advanced (2 Unit) mathematics would still make me a competitive pilot candidate?

Cheers

cryptoniqht
7th May 2018, 13:30
Has anyone applied with ACO as their first preference and Pilot as their second? I realise pilot is the only option a lot of people would take but I am equally interested in both roles with a slight preference towards ACO. If I don't meet the pilot standard in ASP is it likely that I will not meet the ACO standard either or are they significantly different?

Cheers for all the advice on this thread

SonicStrike
7th May 2018, 23:40
Hi guys and gals,

I recently graduated uni with a Bachelors in Comp Sci and started the long application process for Pilot/ACO with my assessment day in a few weeks time. This thread has been incredibly helpful with providing material for preparation as well as insights into what the later stages of the process are like (ASP/OSB).

I originally wanted to apply for ACO as sitting behind a screen has always been my thing and I didn't think I had the competitive edge to make it through the pilot process. However I have since changed my mind and am now applying for both positions.

I was curious about those that have applied with a university degree, how much weight did this carry throughout the process? I am wondering as my grades in uni weren't exactly stellar (Credit Average) and my maths is a bit lacking as I only did General Maths in Year 12. I realise I am only still in the early stages of the process with my assessment day coming up but was curious if they went into much detail about your performance and extracurriculars at uni.

Cheers

I applied with a Bachelor of Accounting with a credit average. The point that you were able to complete a university degree shows commitment and a sound level of ability to learn and apply. Iím not sure the weighting this holds across the entire process but I can imagine it would only be in your favour.

My advice is to make a correlation between your time at university and how those skills will be valuable in the role of Pilot or ACO. I would also do a little more research into the ACO role as there is far more than sitting behind a screen, such as opportunities in JTAC and the various mission planning areas. Good luck in your upcoming assessment session, if you prepare solid,logical and honest answers to their questions, you will breeze through.

EttaJames29
9th May 2018, 09:48
[QUOTE=cryptoniqht;10140278]Has anyone applied with ACO as their first preference and Pilot as their second? I realise pilot is the only option a lot of people would take but I am equally interested in both roles with a slight preference towards ACO. If I don't meet the pilot standard in ASP is it likely that I will not meet the ACO standard either or are they significantly different?

Cheers for all the advice on this thread[/QUOTE

Hi,

It is possible to recieve an offer for ACO and not pilot. In my ASP I only just passed the required standard for pilot, but had a strong result for ACO. The testing for ACO does not include hand eye coordination and (I think) is more heavily weighted towards Strategic Task Management (the ability to multitask under time pressure).

Hope that helps.

Slezy9
10th May 2018, 00:54
Has anyone applied with ACO as their first preference and Pilot as their second? I realise pilot is the only option a lot of people would take but I am equally interested in both roles with a slight preference towards ACO. If I don't meet the pilot standard in ASP is it likely that I will not meet the ACO standard either or are they significantly different?

Cheers for all the advice on this thread

I canít answer your question directly but...

I am not aware of any Navís (ACOís) who fail course then proceed directly to pilots course. Yet many who have failed pilots course proceed directly to NAV course. Thereís a reason pilots course is sometimes referred to pre-nav course!

BordZ
10th May 2018, 11:16
Random question, how would I go about getting in touch with a pilot or aco?

I have emailed the address as per the post assessment day documentation but have not got a response as of yet. Mind you I am probably getting ahead of myself here expecting a quick response.

The Ayatollah
10th May 2018, 22:48
Just call up a base and ask if you could speak to a pilot - or better yet see if you could arrange to go out for a day.

stichedup
11th May 2018, 00:26
Hey everyone.
First time posting here, I've recently completed my assessment day as a RAAF pilot, and have failed the estimation maths test. The recruiter was a great bloke and mentioned that I was close, and scored well enough in the other tests but unfortunately would not be able to progress for another 12 months.
Feels like I've had my guts ripped out, I don't want to give up on my dreams but I guess this is a bit of a wakeup call. I'll be 23 this time next year, and will be getting pretty old by the time i completed IMPS.
I'm lost, has anyone here been in my situation and still gotten through the selection process after failing? Will this act as a strike against my name when I get to OSB? Any advice into any other RAAF or military careers would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.

BordZ Give your recruiting officer a call, they will put you in contact with a serving RAAF pilot at your closest base who would be happy to show you around. This is my experience.

BordZ
13th May 2018, 05:18
I am 28 and started the process when I was 27. I wouldn't get to hung up on the age aspect. Just try again next year, it's not over.

PP0595
16th May 2018, 09:43
Hey everyone.
I'm lost, has anyone here been in my situation and still gotten through the selection process after failing? Will this act as a strike against my name when I get to OSB? Any advice into any other RAAF or military careers would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.


This definitely won't count as a strike against your name, if anything if you come back next year will only strengthen your position in the application. This shows that you are both motivated towards the role, and committed to making the steps forward needed to make you competitive. As long as you are honest with the board in your performance and progress it should be very positive in your favour.

peterpilot88
24th May 2018, 11:21
Hey everyone.
First time posting here, I've recently completed my assessment day as a RAAF pilot, and have failed the estimation maths test. The recruiter was a great bloke and mentioned that I was close and scored well enough in the other tests but unfortunately would not be able to progress for another 12 months.
Feels like I've had my guts ripped out, I don't want to give up on my dreams but I guess this is a bit of a wakeup call. I'll be 23 this time next year, and will be getting pretty old by the time I completed IMPS.
I'm lost, has anyone here been in my situation and still gotten through the selection process after failing? Will this act as a strike against my name when I get to OSB? Any advice on any other RAAF or military careers would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.

BordZ Give your recruiting officer a call, they will put you in contact with a serving RAAF pilot at your closest base who would be happy to show you around. This is my experience.


Don't stress about your age mate. I applied when I was 17 after wanting to be a fighter pilot since I was 6, I advised that my high school OP was 23 and promptly told this wasn't a career for me as my file was closed in front of my crushed acne ridden face. I then tried to join as an Avtech hoping to move across to pilot internally. They offered me a position in the Navy, however, I decided to come back a little more competitive. I went away, redid grade 11 and 12 at TAFE as well as an external physics course which bumped that 23 up to a 6 equivalent. From there I started uni and completed a Bachelor of Aviation. On the side, I joined Crimestoppers, the SES and completed a number of leadership roles at uni. I have also completed my commercial pilot licence and multi-engine command instrument rating as part of the course too.

I reapplied, started the YOU session from scratch and was deemed competitive. I received a call to attend the FSP, however, my medical hadn't cleared. Apparently I have a condition known as mild Thrombocytopaenia, essentially a low platelet count. The normal range is 150 - 400, my results were 148. I was told I could not join any service in any role because of this. Many many emails, phone calls, verbal and written 'no's', specialist visits to oncologists, and even a bone marrow test later, I finally was approved to join. As ecstatic as I was, they quickly informed me my YOU session had lapsed and I would need to start the entire process for a third and final allowed time.

I completed the whole process yet again and have had to wait nearly another year since then while they have worked out this transition from FSP to ASP. I turn 30 in August, though I will be doing the ASP next week. While it's been a long road, persistence does pay off.

My cousin was in the RAAF for 23 years, he was a fighter combat instructor at 2OCU, he had seen 28-year-olds come through there.

Good luck with it, just remember that if it is really what you want, you'll get there.

Pillymonkey
25th May 2018, 01:07
Don't stress about your age mate. I applied when I was 17 after wanting to be a fighter pilot since I was 6, I advised that my high school OP was 23 and promptly told this wasn't a career for me as my file was closed in front of my crushed acne ridden face. I then tried to join as an Avtech hoping to move across to pilot internally. They offered me a position in the Navy, however, I decided to come back a little more competitive. I went away, redid grade 11 and 12 at TAFE as well as an external physics course which bumped that 23 up to a 6 equivalent. From there I started uni and completed a Bachelor of Aviation. On the side, I joined Crimestoppers, the SES and completed a number of leadership roles at uni. I have also completed my commercial pilot licence and multi-engine command instrument rating as part of the course too.

I reapplied, started the YOU session from scratch and was deemed competitive. I received a call to attend the FSP, however, my medical hadn't cleared. Apparently I have a condition known as mild Thrombocytopaenia, essentially a low platelet count. The normal range is 150 - 400, my results were 148. I was told I could not join any service in any role because of this. Many many emails, phone calls, verbal and written 'no's', specialist visits to oncologists, and even a bone marrow test later, I finally was approved to join. As ecstatic as I was, they quickly informed me my YOU session had lapsed and I would need to start the entire process for a third and final allowed time.

I completed the whole process yet again and have had to wait nearly another year since then while they have worked out this transition from FSP to ASP. I turn 30 in August, though I will be doing the ASP next week. While it's been a long road, persistence does pay off.

My cousin was in the RAAF for 23 years, he was a fighter combat instructor at 2OCU, he had seen 28-year-olds come through there.

Good luck with it, just remember that if it is really what you want, you'll get there.

G'day Peter,

Just wanted to ask how long your wait was from completing your assessment day to being offered a spot at ASP?

peterpilot88
27th May 2018, 08:40
My last Assessment day was 22nd of May 2017.

Cheers,

Pete.

josephfeatherweight
28th May 2018, 02:53
Peter, all the very best!
Your tireless efforts will no doubt pay off and are a testament to your character - best of luck at ASP!
That's been a hell of a ride for you!

peterpilot88
28th May 2018, 04:35
Thanks Joseph!

I will remain resolute to the bitter end if need be! I am of the belief you haven't failed until you give up.

ElFynn1214
1st Jun 2018, 10:12
ASP - I recently received an invitation to attend ASP (mid March) assuming I'll be one of the first. I'm seeking any assistance on how to prepare/what to expect as info in the letter was limited. I've applied for JBAC and already been recommended by OSB but still waiting for offer.
I know this is a pilots thread but since the testing is now combined across all OA roles I'm hoping to get some links to practice assessment likely to be included. Can anyone point me in the right direction for Aviation cognitive tests online?
The letter stated that the assessment component is all computer based consisting of aptitude testing using the Military Aviation Cognitive Testing System (MACTS).
It reads as if the test will be exactly the same regardless of the role applied for and I'm wary my flying aptitude is limited.
Thanks in advance for the assistance and I'm happy to contribute a brief if the ASP once completed.
Hi NickyG,

How are you going with your JBAC application?
I also have applied for ATC and I have my Assessment Day this month.

Feel free to message me as I tried to message you but it wouldn't let me.

Cheers

Birdyvii
7th Jun 2018, 01:09
Hey guys,

Yesterday I had my assessment day for a position as a RAAF pilot.

I'll keep this brief. Basically my school results were average (I'm not dumb, I was just lazy in school), but I passed everything to meet the requirements. Its been a few years since school and I am a much more motivated and committed person than I was back then. Yesterday in the test however, I scored extremely high and did well throughout the whole day. Now, I'm just wondering how much merit that will actually carry? Do the school results matter if they have proof that things have changed? I'm heading to ASP in about 2 months. I'm not too concerned and they told me that I shouldn't be either, just to keep studying. Can anyone give their experience in ASP? I'm aware that they use MACTS to test you.

Thanks guys.

kyle_
7th Jun 2018, 06:00
I just got an offer to Attend ASP from the 30th July to the 2nd August, three years in the waiting. Did anyone else get an offer to attend. Could direct message me.

megan
7th Jun 2018, 08:18
Those wishing a military flying career might wish to think outside the box. A young lad I've known since birth wanted to join the Navy as a pilot. Flunked the testing but was offered a Observer position which he accepted. Towards the end of his Observer commitment he applied again for Pilot which he passed. Dux at Pearce and RAAF offered him Hornets if he'd swap services. Declined, so at the age of 34 the newly graduated pilot decided to stay Navy and fly helos. More than one way to skin a cat.

Nate01
8th Jun 2018, 04:23
Iím currently waiting on an invite for ASP, and I was wondering whether anyone knows how often they sit the boards?

Nate01
8th Jun 2018, 07:36
I just got an offer to Attend ASP from the 30th July to the 2nd August, three years in the waiting. Did anyone else get an offer to attend. Could direct message me.

Congrats man on getting the offer,
Just wondering how long the wait has been since assessment day? I sat mine January this year and they gave me the heads up saying I might get an invite in July/August. Help is much appreciated.

Glenny
9th Jun 2018, 06:17
Hey guys,

Yesterday I had my assessment day for a position as a RAAF pilot.

I'll keep this brief. Basically my school results were average (I'm not dumb, I was just lazy in school), but I passed everything to meet the requirements. Its been a few years since school and I am a much more motivated and committed person than I was back then. Yesterday in the test however, I scored extremely high and did well throughout the whole day. Now, I'm just wondering how much merit that will actually carry? Do the school results matter if they have proof that things have changed? I'm heading to ASP in about 2 months. I'm not too concerned and they told me that I shouldn't be either, just to keep studying. Can anyone give their experience in ASP? I'm aware that they use MACTS to test you.

Thanks guys.

Well done mate 2 months is crazy fast you must have killed it. What was everyone else's average time before they were invited to asp? i've been waiting 8 months so far & have heard on average its 10-12, however hopefully the new asp system will speed it up like it supposed too.

TheTiger
10th Jun 2018, 10:31
Is anyone here going for ADFA entry and any advice from anyone whos done the new ASP? Any way to prepare

Hows the current demand for RAAF fast jet pilots

SonicStrike
11th Jun 2018, 07:38
Hey guys,

Yesterday I had my assessment day for a position as a RAAF pilot.

I'll keep this brief. Basically my school results were average (I'm not dumb, I was just lazy in school), but I passed everything to meet the requirements. Its been a few years since school and I am a much more motivated and committed person than I was back then. Yesterday in the test however, I scored extremely high and did well throughout the whole day. Now, I'm just wondering how much merit that will actually carry? Do the school results matter if they have proof that things have changed? I'm heading to ASP in about 2 months. I'm not too concerned and they told me that I shouldn't be either, just to keep studying. Can anyone give their experience in ASP? I'm aware that they use MACTS to test you.

Thanks guys.


Hey mate, congratulations on doing well on your assessment day and good luck in your upcoming ASP in a couple months.

The results from your assessment day carry a lot of merit and will be a factor in determining your suitability as an officer. The upcoming ASP and other testing you have completed will be the main factor in determining your suitability for air crew roles such as pilot.

My advice is to try enjoy yourself whilst on ASP and interact as much as possible with other candidates whilst you are there. The few days down there gives you a small insight into what it is like to live on base. Take every opportunity to learn about OTS from the officer cadets and officers down there and though pilot is the main role a lot of candidates apply for, have a serious think about other aviation roles that you will learn about during the ASP.

Donít stress about the school results, I had average school and university results but after receiving strong results for pilot at ASP in May and strong recommendations during the application process, I will be sitting a board next week for RAAF Pilot.

kyle_
11th Jun 2018, 23:48
Congrats man on getting the offer,
Just wondering how long the wait has been since assessment day? I sat mine January this year and they gave me the heads up saying I might get an invite in July/August. Help is much appreciated.

Hey Mate, i had my first assessment day mid 2016 passed fine and was recommended, however i had minor medical issues as I've had a knee recon. took me all of 2017 to get my medical cleared including several doctor visits and day Surgery's just to get reports for ADF. Couple thousand dollars in bills. My medical was cleared late last year but my assessment day expired so i resat it around October passed again with flying Colours. I had an offer for ASP in march but it was only three days notice cause someone pulled out so i couldn't get the time off work. Hence i'am here now and just got my offer last week for the 30th July. - 2nd August

EttaJames29
12th Jun 2018, 02:33
Has anyone been panelled for the August RAAF OTS intake yet? Iíve only just completed my OSB 2 weeks ago, and am not sure if Iíve made it in time for that course. If offers have already gone out, Iíll know to plan and hope for the January intake. Thanks :)

tayra
12th Jun 2018, 03:48
So far have only heard of offers going out for the July intake and only (that I know of) to those who had completed an OSB prior to their ASP. Perhaps the new financial year will bring some progress.

edit: apparently July is full up, no offers out for August as of last week.

BordZ
12th Jun 2018, 04:09
Has anyone been panelled for the August RAAF OTS intake yet? Iíve only just completed my OSB 2 weeks ago, and am not sure if Iíve made it in time for that course. If offers have already gone out, Iíll know to plan and hope for the January intake. Thanks :)

They are still doing osbs for the August intake. I imagine you will get a response in a couple weeks once they are done.

Glenny
12th Jun 2018, 11:50
So far have only heard of offers going out for the July intake and only (that I know of) to those who had completed an OSB prior to their ASP. Perhaps the new financial year will bring some progress.

edit: apparently July is full up, no offers out for August as of last week.


Hi tayra, got an offer today for the august asp. if anyone else gets one feel free to get in touch, see you all there hopefully :ok:

TheGoose
13th Jun 2018, 05:36
Hi guys

Been reading into this quite a bit looking for anything that can help. Had my assessment day recently and have just received an offer to attend a ASP, the guy at my local requirement couldn't offer me much help on the whole process however did help a little, was wondering if anyone that has been through the new ASP could offer me a little insight into how the whole thing will go.

other questions:
Any recommendations on areas of study?
lets say i pass it and get recommended for OSB what is the wait time in between ASP's and OSB's ?

Cheers

donpizmeov
13th Jun 2018, 07:20
Is the OSB pass rate higher now ASP has been introduced?

EttaJames29
14th Jun 2018, 02:14
Hi guys

Been reading into this quite a bit looking for anything that can help. Had my assessment day recently and have just received an offer to attend a ASP, the guy at my local requirement couldn't offer me much help on the whole process however did help a little, was wondering if anyone that has been through the new ASP could offer me a little insight into how the whole thing will go.

other questions:
Any recommendations on areas of study?
lets say i pass it and get recommended for OSB what is the wait time in between ASP's and OSB's ?

Cheers

People on my ASP completed OSB within 2 months. I'd recommend utilising the time at ASP to find out as much as you can about the role you are going for, the training involved and the military lifestyle. This will help you immensely at your OSB. Also, remember that the people running the ASP will have direct influence over your application progression, so ensure that you present yourself well. I'm not sure that you can study all that much for the actual testing. Practice mental maths and short term memory problems - that's about all I can think of. :)

kyle_
21st Jun 2018, 09:25
Hi tayra, got an offer today for the august asp. if anyone else gets one feel free to get in touch, see you all there hopefully :ok:

Glenny, what dates did you get an offer for? i'm going on the first week of August

Rich.ieP
21st Jun 2018, 10:33
Hey everyone just wanted to chime in to say thanks for all the great advice over the past year. Received a LOO for NEOC 59, hopefully I'll see some of you there!

All the best to you all, study hard!

Glenny
22nd Jun 2018, 06:52
Glenny, what dates did you get an offer for? i'm going on the first week of August


7th august

13Beast
1st Jul 2018, 22:47
I have my ASP coming up end of this month. Curious as to what sort of attire people wore; I am guessing a suit or business casual, yet during the full day sessions its a PT attire underneath a flight suit, correct? Which would mean wear the suit/business attire/smart casual en route there, and after hours (dinners etc) when you won't be in the flight suit? Silly question I know, the letter didn't explain in great detail as to what sort of attire is expected that's all.

kyle_
1st Jul 2018, 23:48
I have my ASP coming up end of this month. Curious as to what sort of attire people wore; I am guessing a suit or business casual, yet during the full day sessions its a PT attire underneath a flight suit, correct? Which would mean wear the suit/business attire/smart casual en route there, and after hours (dinners etc) when you won't be in the flight suit? Silly question I know, the letter didn't explain in great detail as to what sort of attire is expected that's all.

13Beast I have my ASP aswell beginning on the 30th i intend on doing the same, wearing a business suit en route and i believe they give you a jumpsuit for the time on base. what dates are your ASP? send me a PM if you like.
?

tayra
2nd Jul 2018, 03:45
Yeah you only need smart casual for your arrival and for breakfast the day you leave. Flight suits are the go all other times.

kyle_
2nd Jul 2018, 06:58
Yeah you only need smart casual for your arrival and for breakfast the day you leave. Flight suits are the go all other times.

Thanks Tayra :)

hansfalkenhagen
2nd Jul 2018, 10:18
Shit, maybe the Army will open up for Pilots again for me now;

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/watch/adf-members-caught-up-in-cocaine-ring/vp-AAzsUdj?ocid=spartanntp

13Beast
2nd Jul 2018, 12:43
Shit, maybe the Army will open up for Pilots again for me now;

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/watch/adf-members-caught-up-in-cocaine-ring/vp-AAzsUdj?ocid=spartanntp

Funny that you post that...I was in at DFR this afternoon and my EC was saying how the Army is starting to make noise about starting up their drive for pilots again. Apparently they shut off the pipeline for pilots about a year ago at recruiting and said they'd be fine for 18 months or so, now it looks like they will start it up again. FYI for those interested in Army pilot.

josephfeatherweight
3rd Jul 2018, 06:11
Yeah you only need smart casual for your arrival and for breakfast the day you leave.

Some friendly (old man) advice on this. First impressions last.
Keep in mind that as an early 20s-keen-young-go-getter, your idea of what "smart casual" is, may be somewhat different to the more mature (read "older") people that will be assessing you.
Dress to impress this "older" generation, not necessarily that of your peers.
For guys, I would recommend trousers and a collared shirt (not a polo shirt).
I say this because I've had some feedback from some people involved within the ASP that some of the candidates were dressed like they were going out on Friday night with their mates.
They do notice this stuff, so give yourselves the best chance - certainly what you wear does not reflect your abilities, but it does reflect your attitude to the process, especially in the minds of the "traditional-type" people potentially assessing you.
Disclaimer - I have no fashion sense - my wife tells me so...
Extra Disclaimer - I've told my wife what I wrote here and she reckons I'm an old fashioned loser.

tayra
3rd Jul 2018, 06:23
Fashion trumping reading in a few instances then because the joining instructions clearly spell out smart casual as collared shirt and slacks.

josephfeatherweight
3rd Jul 2018, 06:29
Fashion trumping reading in a few instances then because the joining instructions clearly spell out smart casual as collared shirt and slacks.
Ha, there you go! I was too scared to dabble in suggesting what girls should wear - in that realm, I really have NO idea. What do they say for that - same?

tayra
3rd Jul 2018, 06:36
Essentially the same: "Blouse/top with sleeve; Knee length skirt or trousers (not jeans) or dress; Flat, fully enclosed, comfortable shoes"

josephfeatherweight
3rd Jul 2018, 06:45
Righto - what Tayra said - "Read the Joining Instructions." Good luck!
Old man out.

Applicant
3rd Jul 2018, 11:54
Is anyone here going for ADFA entry and any advice from anyone whos done the new ASP? Any way to prepare

Hows the current demand for RAAF fast jet pilots
Great info everyone on this forum...thanks for the helpful advice. Am applying for ADFA entry. Can anyone advise on how many ADFA pilot positions are offered? I understand it's a 1-2% chance of acceptance. Thanks in advance!

hansfalkenhagen
4th Jul 2018, 09:09
I understand it's a 1-2% chance of acceptance.

Try not to look at it this way mate. From what I've gathered, if you are a suitable candidate you've got like an 80% chance of getting in.

Yes, there's figures of "3000 applicants per year" starting from the YOU session, and "80% fail-rate" at the ASP, but the reality is that the minimum requirements to apply are so low that about a quarter of the population are eligible to apply.

Do what you need to, to make yourself a "suitable" candidate, and you'll do well.

13Beast
4th Jul 2018, 22:27
Some friendly (old man) advice on this. First impressions last.
Keep in mind that as an early 20s-keen-young-go-getter, your idea of what "smart casual" is, may be somewhat different to the more mature (read "older") people that will be assessing you.
Dress to impress this "older" generation, not necessarily that of your peers.
For guys, I would recommend trousers and a collared shirt (not a polo shirt).
I say this because I've had some feedback from some people involved within the ASP that some of the candidates were dressed like they were going out on Friday night with their mates.
They do notice this stuff, so give yourselves the best chance - certainly what you wear does not reflect your abilities, but it does reflect your attitude to the process, especially in the minds of the "traditional-type" people potentially assessing you.
Disclaimer - I have no fashion sense - my wife tells me so...
Extra Disclaimer - I've told my wife what I wrote here and she reckons I'm an old fashioned loser.

Whenever in doubt, just wear a suit. That's what I'm doing :)

hansfalkenhagen
5th Jul 2018, 08:31
Funny that you post that...I was in at DFR this afternoon and my EC was saying how the Army is starting to make noise about starting up their drive for pilots again. Apparently they shut off the pipeline for pilots about a year ago at recruiting and said they'd be fine for 18 months or so, now it looks like they will start it up again. FYI for those interested in Army pilot.

So the Army has officially opened its doors to new applicants again. The Army was always my first preference, by a long shot, until a couple of days after my assessment day in early June 2017 when they closed it down. From what I've been told, to sit an Army OSB I would need to redo my assessment day, specialist medicals, and then wait for a spot on the ASP despite passing it with a pretty decent grade in the last few months....

hmm...

tayra
6th Jul 2018, 03:49
Looks like August intake offers are starting to go out. Good luck to those waiting by the (e)mailbox.

finestkind
6th Jul 2018, 05:07
I I have had a quick scroll through the last few months. Some interesting conversations and some interesting points.
A couple of thoughts/points.
ASP like FSP is not a pass or fail course. It is an assessment of potential. Yes if you wish you may argue that Below Required Standard (BRS) is a fail but I will disagree. Everyone has potential. The ADF is not in the business of placing people on a course that they feel have a significant chance of not passing. Not good for the individual nor the company. Hence if you are BRS you have not failed anything. Your potential displayed puts you in the higher risk category for success on this course and as there are people that have MRS why would you place someone that is a high risk candidate in that situation. Anyone that starts giving facts and figures needs to be treated with a wee bit of “consideration”. I know the intent is generally positive in providing information but unless accurate can be detrimental. If I was a newbie and looked at Han’s post on 80% “failure” rate at ASP I certainly would not be instilled with a sense of confidence. The point above in the first para is relative, it’s not a failure. The other point is it’s not 80% BRS. The UK model is a 50% BRS. Ours is no different. Although there is a far bit of jousting that has and is going on in this thread with some negative input there are two things to remember. 1) If you make a statement, give an opinion on an open forum and don’t expect replies that in particular are not to your liking and you have difficulties with this than perhaps you should not post. By all means defend you post but do so in well-mannered way even if the other has not (yes I have not adhered to this but I’m old and grumpy). 2) In the bad old days pilot’s course was a shit sandwich with no bread. In other words it was a negative reinforcement style. “You failed that, do it again and you gone”. Thankfully that style of training/debrief is no longer around. That does not mean you are not critiqued. All it means is that now you get some bread with your sandwich.:) Why is this relevant? You will need to face up to debrief points and take criticism. If you cannot do that on a forum you may have difficulty doing so on course. And yes this is a different place than being debriefed by a wise all-knowing instructor, here you can argue back but when you defend your post do so in a positive manner (just like Tara). Remember being a kiddie and being told that you can be whatever you want to be? A little more definition on “want” would have been helpful. Want is not wish. Wishing does not make it so. If you want something you work for it. If you want to be in the ADF than go for it, work towards it. If you want to be an ADF pilot than go for it, work for it. It is not going to be given to you as a present. The forum has some good info. However people do get annoyed when someone comes on and starts laying down what it’s all about in a tone that shall we say rubs the wrong way and grates further when not actually 100% correct. So remember it’s not what you say so much as how you say it.
Good luck and good hunting.

hansfalkenhagen
6th Jul 2018, 08:33
Hey finestkind,

I am sure you'd agree with me that if you were to ask 10 different people about their opinions on any subject, you'd probably get 10 very different answers.

For instance, when I was preparing for my assessment day, I didn't just ask for the opinion of the military personnel at DFR and at the open days, I spoke to many current and ex-serving members too - particaurly those whom have had nothing to do with recruitment whatsoever! If I had just done the former, wouldn't you imagine the opinion would have been a bit biased? As far as I am concerned, the more opinions people get the better. That's what this forum is for after all.

Sure my opinion probably comes across as being a bit blunt, but any "facts and figures" I have presented have come straight from the ASP and DFR.

If I am to try and finish this post on a positive note, here's some links with what to expect for the ASP tests:

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page

https://rafcbat.wordpress.com/

kukushka
8th Jul 2018, 13:34
Well, everything has come around rather quickly for me. I've been lurking here for a while, since before I did my ASP. Now I'm heading off to Canberra in a few days for my OSB. Certainly is a lot of pressure but thanks to everyone for the words of wisdom, can't say I've always agreed with what some of you have to say but It's still nice to check this thread to stay updated.

Final push now - then the painful wait for an offer or the painful wait to try again a year later.

K

13Beast
9th Jul 2018, 00:43
Well, everything has come around rather quickly for me. I've been lurking here for a while, since before I did my ASP. Now I'm heading off to Canberra in a few days for my OSB. Certainly is a lot of pressure but thanks to everyone for the words of wisdom, can't say I've always agreed with what some of you have to say but It's still nice to check this thread to stay updated.

Final push now - then the painful wait for an offer or the painful wait to try again a year later.

K

Good luck mate, hope you smash it and get an offer in the near future

hansfalkenhagen
9th Jul 2018, 01:03
Good luck mate, hope you smash it and get an offer in the near future

As do I. If you haven't seen it already I'd recommend the following book: E-book - Pilots - ADF Mentors (http://www.adfmentors.com.au/interviews/e-book-pilots/)

It does cost about $50 but it's an invaluable resource. The bloke who runs it, Nick, is also pretty quick to get back to you with any help you need along the way too. Best of luck

finestkind
9th Jul 2018, 01:23
Hans, precisely the point. You air an opinion anywhere then you invite other opinions which maybe in disagreement with yours. And as it is an opinion it is biased. If your state something that is a fact it is not an opinion Facts and figures from DFR I would take with a huge grain of salt. Your quote that you achieved 76% by working out your score. This obviously did not come from ASP nor DFR. Your quote on “Many officers from East Sale suggested there was an 80% fail rate”. From my previous post you know my thoughts about “fail”. And suggested is not a fact. It is a fact that the RAF system has a 50% “makes the standard” rate. Your 80 % figure is more factual when you look at the 50% that do not display the appropriate potential and then the remaining number that will be looked at means that 80% of the people that do ASP will most likely be not looked at. Not 80% failed.

Happy landings.

hansfalkenhagen
9th Jul 2018, 02:42
Hey finestkind,

You are right. The ASP results are a measure of potential. The higher you score, the less risk you impose on getting through the training successfully - or at least that's the intended effect.

However, there are 7 cognitive functions being tested. If you pass 6 of the functions scoring 100% but don't meet the required cut-off for just one function, you will not progress any further. Call it "fail" or "not pass", I don't mind.

Some people who do pass the ASP will not get an offer for the OSB. From what I have been told, it's a little harder to get your foot through the door at the moment due to the limited number of training aircraft right now. When the rest of the aircraft come through (due to be 49 in total) the recruitment numbers will rise and the scores for the ASP will be relaxed a little.

You can "fail" the test but if you pass it your score still acts in a similar way to an ATAR.

Ascend Charlie
9th Jul 2018, 02:43
It would be interesting to see how well the screening does, when it gets to numbers of students starting the course compared to the numbers finishing.

50 years ago when I joined the RAAF, there were about 400 applicants for each pilots course. Of those, 40 would be selected to start the course, and of those, around 20 would get their wings.

This is a success rate of 5% from the initial applicants, and 50% for those deemed to be "Meets Required Standard."

Does this more-thorough screening process increase the finishers:starters ratio?

hansfalkenhagen
9th Jul 2018, 03:08
I have absolutely no idea. All I can say is that, from the research I have done, the ASP is supposed to be a better indicator of a candidate passing flight training.

finestkind
9th Jul 2018, 07:47
Hi AC.

The simple answer is yes.

EttaJames29
10th Jul 2018, 04:01
Looks like August intake offers are starting to go out. Good luck to those waiting by the (e)mailbox.

Thanks Tayra. Does anyone know how long it usually takes them to send all of the offers out?

Applicant
10th Jul 2018, 19:47
I was reading a post from December 2017 which advised RAAF were offering 10 Male pilot positions at ADFA for 2018. Can someone verify if this was the case and if these numbers are indicative for the 2019 I take? Thanking contributors to help with option consideration.

Applicant
10th Jul 2018, 20:37
Apparently all of the RAAF ADFA Pilot positions have been selected and my nephew wasnít one of them. I was surprised to be told there was only 10, yes 10, RAAF ADFA Pilot positions open for males. I donít know how big the intakes are now, in my day there weíre around 30. So 20 females, 10 males. (From December 2017 post)

Apologies...I didn't attach post quote correctly above...am novice to forum. Just looking for clarification on Male/ Female pilot offers for RAAF via ADFA for 2019.

thanks all

tayra
11th Jul 2018, 02:52
Thanks Tayra. Does anyone know how long it usually takes them to send all of the offers out?

Heard of some still going out today. I think it largely depends on how quickly your local DFR can process them as to when they go out. Fingers crossed for you!

kukushka
11th Jul 2018, 07:09
Well, finished my ADFA osb and received a recommendation for Pilot. Now the wait for the offers near the end of the year.

Glenny
13th Jul 2018, 06:56
Well, finished my ADFA osb and received a recommendation for Pilot. Now the wait for the offers near the end of the year.


Hey well done mate, good to see people in this forum doing well. fingers crossed and good luck to you

William217
19th Jul 2018, 02:54
Hey,
fairly new to this forum. Just wantting to have a chat with anyone whom has been able to pass the ASP, and if so what can one expext to see whilst beeing screened.
Cheers

The Ayatollah
19th Jul 2018, 12:33
Hey mate,

I suggest you have a read back through the last couple of pages, thereís a wealth of good info in there about what to expect.

William217
19th Jul 2018, 23:07
Awesome, will do

William217
19th Jul 2018, 23:14
Hey Kukushka, seeing that you have completed both of your ASP and OSB, just wondering what should i expect to see at ASP with the computer tests.
Cheers

EttaJames29
24th Jul 2018, 08:08
Heard of some still going out today. I think it largely depends on how quickly your local DFR can process them as to when they go out. Fingers crossed for you!

Thank you. I finally got the call last Friday 😊

hansfalkenhagen
25th Jul 2018, 05:39
Thank you. I finally got the call last Friday 😊

Well done :ok:

Stolfo
26th Jul 2018, 07:00
Hey all,
Recently passed my ADFA assessment day and was recommended to attend the ASP. I was wondering how long the wait period between assessment day and ASP usually takes? Contacting my case manager is difficult as numerous calls and emails have gone through with no response.

On a good note, I received a call today from DFR asking whether I want to attend the ADFA open day (where all flights/travel are covered).

Any information regarding the time period between assessment day and ASP is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Julian

Pillymonkey
27th Jul 2018, 01:47
Hey all,
Recently passed my ADFA assessment day and was recommended to attend the ASP. I was wondering how long the wait period between assessment day and ASP usually takes? Contacting my case manager is difficult as numerous calls and emails have gone through with no response.

On a good note, I received a call today from DFR asking whether I want to attend the ADFA open day (where all flights/travel are covered).

Any information regarding the time period between assessment day and ASP is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Julian

Currently looking at between 6-8 months before receiving an invitation to ASP.. At least that's what I have heard.

Stolfo
28th Jul 2018, 00:48
Currently looking at between 6-8 months before receiving an invitation to ASP.. At least that's what I have heard.

Cheers for the reply, do you know if it is the same waiting period for ADFA candidates going for 2019 selection? I know DEO has a long waiting gap but wasnít sure whether it is the same for ADFA?

TheGoose
3rd Aug 2018, 10:04
I'm attending my Asp in less then a week, very nervous haha. From what I've read so far some people say you must wear smart casual down however in the instructions it said pt attire to assist fitting of flight suit.
I've also read there is a 6 month wait on ASP that is in my case incorrect about a month after my assessment day i got the invite maybe less then that.

Also my case manager is 'not very helpful', i was wondering if anyone else sends emails and calls and gets no responses?
Anyone that has passed one this year able to give me a little help on what to expect, i've been lurking these forums for a little while.

Glenny
4th Aug 2018, 06:51
I'm attending my Asp in less then a week, very nervous haha. From what I've read so far some people say you must wear smart casual down however in the instructions it said pt attire to assist fitting of flight suit.
I've also read there is a 6 month wait on ASP that is in my case incorrect about a month after my assessment day i got the invite maybe less then that.

Also my case manager is 'not very helpful', i was wondering if anyone else sends emails and calls and gets no responses?
Anyone that has passed one this year able to give me a little help on what to expect, i've been lurking these forums for a little while.


Hey goose tried to send you a PM with some of the details about next week, says you mailbox is too full or something

The Ayatollah
4th Aug 2018, 13:44
Hey Goose, I don't know if Glenny ended up sending you a PM but I'll say my bit regardless. You'll want to rock up to ASP in smart casual, i.e. collared shirt and chinos/suit trousers but for the 2 days you're actually on base you'll be wearing PT gear underneath a flight suit. The smart casual is only for arriving/departing.

As for the testing itself, there's some great links posted earlier which goes into it in more detail than I could possibly hope to, but something I haven't seen mentioned so far but I feel ought to be - get a really good nights sleep and eat well in the lead up. In my opinion that'll make more of a difference than studying every detail of the testing will.

Otherwise, just do your best and you'll be fine. Good luck.

13Beast
5th Aug 2018, 03:45
Definitely have a look at the CBAT blog, and try the app too. However, this will simply give you a bit of an idea as to what to expect. To put things in perspective, I went through the CBAT blog and familiarised myself with some of the screenshots of the test and read the descriptions. I didn't have the app, but had a play around for about 30 minutes on someone else's tablet (who had it) at the ASP. The app is good for again, just familiarising yourself with the tests (of which they are a relatively good mimic of).

I second what The Ayatollah said though; get a good night's sleep, don't stress out too much. Try to relax, make some new friends and enjoy your time down there. Being relaxed, comfortable and fresh when in the tests will do you a world of good. I ended up getting a high rec, however I think that the most important thing (for me anyways) was to just try to be in a good zone when you do the tests. Even finding a quiet space in your room, or somewhere else, where you can just chill out and get your thoughts together before entering the test room (you'll note the prayer room right next to the testing room - I was in there!). And also, very importantly, take advantage of the rest breaks in the test to stroll around, get some fresh air, and "re-zone" yourself.

tayra
7th Aug 2018, 09:49
Thank you. I finally got the call last Friday 😊

Will be seeing you down there as well :ok:

EttaJames29
8th Aug 2018, 11:22
Will be seeing you down there as well :ok:
Congrats! See you there 😊

hannah767
14th Aug 2018, 11:41
I am new to this forum but have been reading the messages!
I have just been offered a spot at ASP on the 2nd of October for 2019 intake into ADFA.
Has anyone else been offered this time as well?

Cheers

kukushka
14th Aug 2018, 12:30
I am new to this forum but have been reading the messages!
I have just been offered a spot at ASP on the 2nd of October for 2019 intake into ADFA.
Has anyone else been offered this time as well?

Cheers

Unfortunately with an ASP on the 2nd of October I'm not so sure you'll meet the cutoff to be able to get to an OSB in time before the end of the year.Good luck though!

hannah767
15th Aug 2018, 09:56
I have been in contact with the DFR and they told me that East Sale had deliberately made a ASP for Year 12 ATAR students in October, so that people that get through are able to do OSB after ATAR Exams and before they get there ATAR score. Obviously this is just for ADFA candidates but yeah thats why I questioned on here

Stolfo
17th Aug 2018, 10:32
Hey all,
Today I received an offer for the ASP from 30 September - 3 October. Wondering if anyone else will be going during this period, if so, let me know!
All the best :)

asuthe13
19th Aug 2018, 00:38
Hi everyone.

I've got my ASP coming up from the 3/9 to the 6/9. In my additional testing I actually failed to meet the standard for ACO, but met the requirement for pilot. Does anyone know if my results at the ASP will override the additional testing and make me eligible for ACO, or will I have to resit the additional testing again?

If anyone else is going during the same time, feel free to send me a PM.

Cheers

ElFynn1214
10th Sep 2018, 20:03
Hi everyone.

I haven't been on here for a bit. Just giving you an update to see if anyone else is close to me and/or applying for the same role.

I passed my Assessment Day on 10/8/18 and I'm applying for RAAF ATC/JBAC

Just waiting for an invite to ASP now. I was told during my Defence interview it may take up to 6 months.

Anyway if anyone is in a similar boat to me, feel free to message.

Cheers

FlyingSoon
12th Sep 2018, 17:52
Hi all, it has been a while. Great to see so many of you getting the call up for ASP and OSBs. While my experience with the old FSP may be a bit out of date, I do wish to share a few timeless pieces of advice:

Make sure to browse the full forum and get an understanding of what others have asked. There is a load of great advice in this thread.
Do not buy into the sentiment that there is a "too late" to get onto an ASP/OSB. When I completed flight screening in Nov/Dec, there was an ADFA screening course going through, meaning you can sit an OSB as late as Nov/Dec depending on how the quota looks. One of my coursemates got an offer and had his appointment day within two weeks. The ADF will continually be looking to fill last minute vacancies, both internally and externally.
First impressions are everything. Being well dressed is a key skill in being a junior officer. I attended all interactions with DFR in a full suit and tie, including travel to and from my FSP and OSB. While you may see this as overkill, this is a simple thing that will instantly set you above the crowd. At the very least you should wear business casual.
Following from the above: Case managers have a difficult job managing large portfolios of candidates and information flows. The trick with them is to be persistent and follow up a phone call with an email. This is great professional practice which will help you become effective junior officers. Keep in mind that these forums can be monitored, and as with any social media, don't say anything that will harm your application.

As always, feel free to reply with any information or PM with any specific personal questions.

Best,
flyingsoon

William217
20th Sep 2018, 03:35
Hey all,

After reading through this forum found that there is a few of you whom have completed the ADF pilot assesment sessions/days etc. Just wondering as i start my application process very soon, from those who have completed these sessions, what should i expect for the ADF medical test (more specificaly how tight are the height restrictions, i do know what the DFR website says but i have heard many differant stories), I am very tall going on 6'5 and have been told that ill be fine height wise, but have also been told that i wont. Just need some clarification from those who have completed this,

cheers
William

FlyingSoon
21st Sep 2018, 13:51
The height restrictions are exactly what they say they are. Plenty of information can be found about the specifics of the specialist medicals elsewhere on this forum but expect very in depth testing and examination.

Best,
fs

LaughAtTheWorld
22nd Sep 2018, 13:04
Hi Guys,

Awesome forum and has made me feel a lot more at ease but just a few questions.
I recently completed my Assessment day 22nd of August and about 2 weeks later got offered a place on the October 1st ASP, I have been informed that if the ASP goes to plan then I will do my OSB straight away while I'm there ( my ASP and OSB are both in Canberra), is there much of a difference between the ASP in Sale to Canberra.

I am incredibly nervous about potentially doing one after the other, maths is not my strongest attribute and wondering just how much of the process is weighted on maths? Is there anyone else in the same boat as me?

Thanks in Advance.

freddish
25th Sep 2018, 03:05
G'day LaughAtTheWorld, i am in the same boat, i had my assessment day in late July and two months later was offered a position for the asp going from the 2nd-5th of October. check out the CBAT blog, all of the tests are gone through there.

to anyone who has completed the asp are there any question relationg to fule flow rates and how to calculate increases with these as speed increases? i have been told to prepare for these but from what ive read up about these type of questions arnt on the asp.

If someone could clear this up for me it would be greatly appriciated. cheers

GAnoob
26th Sep 2018, 12:23
Hi all, Iíve just completed a YOU session and have been allowed to progress to the additional screening for direct entry pilot. Is anyone able to give me a heads up as to what the testing involves and what to expect on the day? Any input will be gratefully appreciated!

FlyingSoon
27th Sep 2018, 03:55
GAnoob, it is a good idea to read this thread in depth and the CBAT thread to see what to prepare for. All the information is here.

LATW, this will be a theme of your career after this. Time pressures are always a thing. I would focus on putting up good scores in the ASP as this will form the majority of your eligibility for Army (as they have 18 months to test/instill officer qualities).

Without a shred of certainty, I would suggest that the process is exactly the same for ASP in Sale and Canberra as they have to maintain a valid testing process.

Seph90
30th Sep 2018, 16:37
Hi all,

I've just completed my ASP with the score of 53/63 which put me 4 bars above the red line of the total score. (Moderate recommendation)
I can't apply for any positions of pilot as of yet because of medical reasons which needs to be cleared up again. (it will take me a few months to get this sorted)
Considering that I only have a high school degree, what would be my best course of action now?
Has people with lower ASP scores and similar education background made it through to being a pilot before?
Any advice would be appreciated.

FlyingSoon
1st Oct 2018, 04:00
Has people with lower ASP scores and similar education background made it through to being a pilot before?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Seph, how long ago did you complete high school? You can go as a Direct Entry Officer as long as you meet the study requirements for maths. You could also go to ADFA which would also be a reasonable pathway. It is definitely feasible to get into a pilot role with a moderate recommendation. Good luck.

Best, fs

finestkind
4th Oct 2018, 04:06
Seph 90

Forgive my apparent scepticism. Unless its changed it is not a High School degree, it's a HSC or state equivalent, unless your from overseas. Score of 53/63 is nowhere near the mark (forgive the pun). With your question on "made it through to being a pilot before", if you mean graduating from pilots course the answer is no. Timing, new selection system. If you mean being recommended for pilot than too much missing info. Most people that apply have a HSC.

rickyrider35
11th Oct 2018, 14:03
Hi guys,
This isn't the first time I've posted, I was one of the lucky few who managed to snag a spot on FSP46, along with thunderchief, however, I was unfortunately unsuccesful. I've been told by my coordinator that I will most likely receive an offer to attend ASP sometime in November, because apparently they wanted to wait until my OSB expired (at the end of October) to then sit me through ASP and subsequently another OSB. While I don't fully understand the reasoning behind these dynamics, my question is actually quite simple.

Does anyone know when the last session of ASP is for 2018? I'm not sure if it's because it's late and I'm burnt out but I have been unable to find any info regarding the scheduling of the sessions for this year, while I clearly remember finding it pretty easily for FSP last year. Anyone have any ideas? I'm getting a bit more worried as time passes.

Thanks in advance and also a big thank you to all of you contributors who have made this thread legendary. Your help is greatly appreciated.

finestkind
12th Oct 2018, 00:26
rr35
I think you have been lead down the path by recruiting. There is no reason why you could not have done ASP and if successful waited for whatever time remained for your 12 months to go by for an OSB and be ready to go to an OSB right at 12 months.
I think you will find the last course are either late Nov or early Dec.

Glenny
13th Oct 2018, 06:00
Hi Guys, Quick question is anyone doing a navy OSB next week? if so feel free to PM me cheers

13Beast
13th Oct 2018, 14:22
Anybody on here also attending the 13th November RAAF OSB in Brisbane?

muddywaters
6th Nov 2018, 04:33
I recently completed the ASP and the tests are completely different to the old FSP. No flying but you will be tested on your memory.

Aces Up
20th Nov 2018, 02:39
rickyrider35;

I'm on ASP from the 2nd of December and I met another OA candidate at last week's Amberley base visit who's doing his on the 9th. That's the latest ASP I'm aware of for 2018.

Mike

RookiePilot
22nd Nov 2018, 04:43
Information on the RAAF Aviation Candidate Management Centre

The Aviation Candidate Management Centre (ACMC) is located at RAAF Base East Sale and has the motto ‘Motivate - Select – Progress’ which succinctly outlines the three core functions of the unit.
ACMC was establish in January 2016 with the purpose of identifying primary areas for motivation and talent attraction, providing a central area for the selection of Air Force Officer Aviation (OA) candidates and centralising the career management and administration of OA candidates whilst training. The motivation team consists of variety of aviation and non-aviation roles within the Air Force responsible for increasing awareness and developing interest among young people in OA careers within the Air Force. The Air Force Simulator Experience (AFSE) is the primary motivation program with a team conducting roadshows across Australia, visiting schools, Air Force Cadet Squadrons and public events such as Avalon and the Career Expos. The program is intended to involve students from grades 7-10 but also offers presentations that cater for all ages.

The experience consists of an introductory brief which outlines fundamental flight controls followed by a flying lesson with an instructor inside the mobile Super Hornet simulator, Air Traffic Control computer based games, virtual reality experience and aircrew life support gear demonstrations. The AFSE is an excellent opportunity for young people to interact with Air Force members in an informal setting, ask questions and discover the fantastic aviation opportunities within the ADF.
ACMC also holds the responsibility for screening OA candidates as they progress through the recruiting pipeline. Once candidates complete their assessment day at Defence Force Recruiting they attend a two day program at the ACMC to undertake the Aviation Screening Program (ASP) using the Military Aviation Cognitive Testing System (MACTS) pronounced “MAX”. The ASP is a tri service screening program, screening all Air Force OA candidates as well as Navy and Army Pilots. The MACTS is based off the tried and tested system utilised by the RAF, CAF and NZAF for some time. It provides a more robust snapshot of a candidate’s aptitude for OA roles, ensures the economical use of time and money as well as greatly increases the number of candidates that can be screened, with ACMC having the capacity to screen up to 900 candidates annually. While at ACMC, candidates also get tours through the several training schools at RAAF Base East Sale. The experience that the candidates get from the additional elements of the ASP such as tours, staying on base and eating at the mess exposes candidates to elements of Air Force life that they have not seen before and is invaluable in contributing to the further motivation and education of candidates.

A second site has been established and is staffed by Army personnel at the Royal Military College (RMC) in Canberra to conduct the ASP for pilot candidates who nominate Army as their first preference. The Aviation Motivation and Screening Program Flight Commander Army said candidates undergo the same screening as their counterparts in Sale and also enjoy the benefits of tours and additional information provided at RMC. By running the ASP at RMC it allows Army to easily screen in-service candidates undertaking training at RMC as well as candidates progressing through the recruiting pipeline.

The third function of ACMC is Officer Aviation Candidate Management is handled by the Candidate Management Cell (CMC). The CMC, with a small team of PCO and PCS staff, acts as the career management agency for all Air Force OA candidates from hire through to attainment of D Cat. The CMC is responsible for all career management aspects including selection, panelling to IOT and IET courses, engagement with training schools with regards to individual progression, postings of members awaiting further training ‘white time’, pay and promotions. In addition to this, the CMC also provide PCS support to the Aviation Screening Program and work closely with Defence Force Recruiting in panelling candidates to the Screening Program. The daily tasks undertaken by the CMC are broad and often require lateral thinking to come up with solutions that ensure a positive outcome for individual member’s circumstances and Air Force. The CMC team makes up a key element that supports the candidates as they progress through the training pipeline. In addition to the role of the CMC each Officer Aviation Candidate’s progression is tracked through the Aviation Progression Program headed up by a Behaviour Scientist.

ACMC is a young unit that has seen significant change as it matures into taking on the full mantle of responsibilities. The team at ACMC have proven to be highly flexible and motivated to ensure they get the job done, it has been a busy year so far and is set to get busier with the arrival of 1FTS at Sale in early 2019 and the commencement of the new pilot training system.

rickyrider35
24th Nov 2018, 23:58
So Iíve finally sat the infamous MACTS at East Sale. Iím not sure why I previously stated I would be heading on the 2nd of December when I was actually invited to attend from the 18th to the 21st.

Good news is that Iíve passed all the tests and theyíre offering me the opportunity to attend any OSB Iíd like with the exception of Army Direct Entry pilot, as the thereís been a backlog since a while back this year.
The issue is that while I could ask to be given a mission role and I would be able to enter ADFA in 2019 with my current scores, I was told that the score of my OSB from last year (FSP46) was almost definitely too low to make the cut for pilot (probably something to do with the fact that it only lasted 15 minutes since I had already failed my flying component), and so I would have to repeat it sometime next year, to then try and enter through ADFA or DE in 2020.

Itís pretty frustrating especially seeing as DFR didnít set any OSBs up to follow ASP, whereas 8/10 of the kids that were attending my course had one a few days to a week later. It needs to be mentioned that they were not sure at that point if I would meet another OSB since I had already sat one and it is valid til the 1st of December, but Iím sure that if they had allowed me to sit FSP around September/October as was originally planned, they would have had time to book one in before the end of the year.

While I wait, I need to give them a numbered order for the OSBs that I want to attend. I think Iíll number RAAF ADFA 1, NAVY ADFA 2, Mission ADFA 3 and maybe put army pilot in fourth (highest required first), although I was warned that getting into an ADFA intake next year (2020 course) will be harder for me since Iíll be 20 going 21 and Iíll have completed two years of another degree. That being said, I donít have much leadership experience past year 10 so I doubt they would consider me very competitive for a direct entry.
If anyone has any opinions regarding this they would be appreciated.

Also, does anyone know if in the event that you donít make it as an ADFA entry for a particular service after completing both the OSB and the ASP, would that service still allow you to come in for a direct entry OSB or would they disregard you as soon as your combined standing isnít high enough for one of the two options?
This is going to be critical in deciding the order of the OSBs, although we have been warned by the army representative at Sale that we could realistically get any possible order.


Thank you in advance to any replies.

Slezy9
26th Nov 2018, 19:34
I was warned that getting into an ADFA intake next year (2020 course) will be harder for me since Iíll be 20 going 21 and Iíll have completed two years of another degree. That being said, I donít have much leadership experience past year 10 so I doubt they would consider me very competitive for a direct entry.
If anyone has any opinions regarding this they would be appreciated.

I got in as a 19 year old with Assistant Patrol Leader (from scouts) pretty much summing up my total leadership experience! I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you want to make the RAAF your entire career go ADFA, if you only want to fly go, Direct Enrty.

Smott999
27th Nov 2018, 18:48
Hello - sorry the spam, just making a test post per Mod request.
Thanks for the informative forums!

finestkind
27th Nov 2018, 22:06
Ricky, not trying to sound condescending. First point is your OSB was not 15 min long. The interview stage of the OSB was/may have been 15 min long. You may have some questions about the length of this but don't forget to task into consideration that you have been observed for the past 12 days. Your instructors have also spent some time with you and would have provided feedback. So arguably there may not be a lot to discuss at interview which would also, time wise, be impacted upon by your service preferences (not interested in a service then no questions from that service advocate).

13Beast
30th Nov 2018, 00:52
Not wanting to derail this thread too much, but can anyone point me in the right direction towards any current flying instructors who are ex-military pilots and at an aviation school within a few hours drive from the Gold Coast?

I have absolutely NIL flying experience/hours, and would love to get a few hours familiarisation/instruction (ground school + perhaps some flying) with an ex-military pilot so I am not a total fish out of water when I get down to Sale.

I've done a ring around to schools in Brisbane/GC/Archerfield and haven't had much luck so far.

Thanks in advance!

kukushka
7th Dec 2018, 12:22
Not wanting to derail this thread too much, but can anyone point me in the right direction towards any current flying instructors who are ex-military pilots and at an aviation school within a few hours drive from the Gold Coast?

I have absolutely NIL flying experience/hours, and would love to get a few hours familiarisation/instruction (ground school + perhaps some flying) with an ex-military pilot so I am not a total fish out of water when I get down to Sale.

I've done a ring around to schools in Brisbane/GC/Archerfield and haven't had much luck so far.

Thanks in advance!

Not really how it works mate.

Go flying for fun, not to find the mythical ex-mil CFI (why an ex-mil pilot would stick around as a CFI other than to bumble around and kill time is another story) who will make you pass the ASP.

I'd wager a very hefty amount that doing flying would do little to nothing to help you down there.

Try focusing on mental maths and all else others have recommended in this thread. The ASP is good fun, you'll enjoy it.

13Beast
8th Dec 2018, 01:37
Not really how it works mate.

Go flying for fun, not to find the mythical ex-mil CFI (why an ex-mil pilot would stick around as a CFI other than to bumble around and kill time is another story) who will make you pass the ASP.

I'd wager a very hefty amount that doing flying would do little to nothing to help you down there.

Try focusing on mental maths and all else others have recommended in this thread. The ASP is good fun, you'll enjoy it.

Thanks for the reply. At what stage of the process are you? I have done both ASP and my OSB and am currently waiting on a LOO, hence doing what I can to prepare for jumping into it down in E.Sale in the not-too-distant future.

kukushka
9th Dec 2018, 12:30
Thanks for the reply. At what stage of the process are you? I have done both ASP and my OSB and am currently waiting on a LOO, hence doing what I can to prepare for jumping into it down in E.Sale in the not-too-distant future.

I received my offer late November, but for ADFA intake so I presume you may have a little more waiting if you're going direct entry. I suppose it doesn't bother or worry me too much yet since I won't be there for three years!

Basics are the same... but you don't need to have flown before and I really don't know how much help it'd give you on the coursework down at Sale. They teach you all you need.

hansfalkenhagen
10th Dec 2018, 11:38
Just pay for a bunch of aerobatics flights. In the position you're in, with nil hours, I can only imagine that doing loops, barrel rolls and incipient spins until you're comfortable in the air/with the g forces would be a hell of a lot more valuable than a few GA hours learning straight and level flight.

Good luck with it!

13Beast
12th Dec 2018, 21:44
Just pay for a bunch of aerobatics flights. In the position you're in, with nil hours, I can only imagine that doing loops, barrel rolls and incipient spins until you're comfortable in the air/with the g forces would be a hell of a lot more valuable than a few GA hours learning straight and level flight.

Good luck with it!

Definitely acro all the way. That's a must. In addition I was also hoping to source an ex-mil fixed wing pilot out there who may dabble in some instructing to pick his brain and/or get some pointers from in the cockpit. Not looking to get my CPL or anything, just a couple hours of familiarisation in and around an aircraft.

Robertsmith39
22nd Dec 2018, 02:12
Morning all and the best of festive greetings to you all.

I fully intend to give you all a ripper of a laugh here today.

Iím a 29 year old train driver who wants to tick his ultimate bucket list item off and become RAAF aircrew in the form of an Ait Combat Officer. I few ďminorĒ obstacles that may prevent this. Hereís where Iím at:

I didnít do physics or 2 unit maths in High School. Thatís fixable by a TAFE course, not a huge barrier.

Second is that I wear glasses for a shocking astigmatism in my left eye. Also fixable by laser surgery but might preclude me from passing an aircrew medical.

Third and probably most prohibitive I feel is Iíve been diagnosed as a very mild asthmatic for some years. If I was to apply, would I be wasting my time?

i guess the other big question is pursuing this stream of aircrew going to become redundant for those who want to fly considering the introduction of the F-35ís that will leave the Super Hornet ACOís needing redeployment to the P-8ís and Wedgetails?

FlyingSoon
26th Dec 2018, 03:26
I wear glasses for a shocking astigmatism in my left eye.

Laser only has a temporary "unfit for flying" period, which would mean you can get your TAFE course done while you sit out that waiting period.

Third and probably most prohibitive I feel is Iíve been diagnosed as a very mild asthmatic for some years. If I was to apply, would I be wasting my time?

Asthma is a huge problem, and is going to be your biggest issue. If you declare it, it will likely mean you will be assessed as unfit for aircrew. Even non-specialist employment roles in the wider ADF require negative results to the "salt water test" and normal spirometry. Lung function is a key testing criteria for specialist medicals, so you can expect to be subject to this testing for any specialist role.

Lastly, I can't comment as to the employment roles in Air Force as that's not my bag.

Best, fs

13Beast
1st Jan 2019, 02:41
Let me chime in here.

I didnít do physics or 2 unit maths in High School. Thatís fixable by a TAFE course, not a huge barrier.

Neither did I. This has never been mentioned nor raised in any way by DFR - and I am now past ASP, OSB and am waiting on a LOO for RAAF pilot. Caveat; I am 38 and hold two degrees; one Arts degree (useless!) and a Mechanical Engineering degree. Whether I have slipped through the cracks or if it is "waived" due to age and/or tertiary education, I am not sure.

[QUOTE=Robertsmith39;10341920]
Second is that I wear glasses for a shocking astigmatism in my left eye. Also fixable by laser surgery but might preclude me from passing an aircrew medical.

Third and probably most prohibitive I feel is Iíve been diagnosed as a very mild asthmatic for some years. If I was to apply, would I be wasting my time?

I had corrective laser surgery performed in mid-2016 due to being classed as Med 4 - unfit. At the time I did some inquiries, and PRK surgery was the only one accepted for any AIRCREW position. The ADF does accept other forms of laser surgery for other non-aircrew roles however. This may or may not have changed since 2016.

Furthermore, with regards to your asthma, I had a guy going for pilot on my ASP who had asthma. I asked him about it and he got the doc to check him out and it was all good (at least at that point in time). DFR didn't seem overly concerned with it in his case. He was very early 20s and is now waiting for an OSB for RAN pilot. Take that with a grain of salt though, as everybody's experience with DFR and DFR Medical can differ.

quantify
12th Feb 2019, 05:47
13Beast When you did your ASP, what recommendation did you get before going to OSB? As in "likelihood of getting an OSB offer?" Cheers and hope you get an offer soon.

13Beast
14th Feb 2019, 22:14
ASP and OSB done, now waiting on a LOO. I sent you a PM.

quantify
18th Feb 2019, 04:48
Hey guys, I had my ASP last April. I decided to resit in a year and DFR just called me up saying that they got a call from ACMC stating that I had been essentially fast tracked to a March sitting instead of waiting for the full year to be completed this April, my EC said this was really weird and hasn't happened before. Would any of you guys have any ideas why they might do this? I don't have any special circumstances within April that would make them reconsider the 1 year rule.
Cheers.

josephfeatherweight
18th Feb 2019, 22:12
Maybe you aced all the tests? Certainly sounds good news - don’t second guess it, grab it by both horns and go for it! Good luck!

quantify
19th Feb 2019, 01:31
Maybe you aced all the tests? Certainly sounds good news - donít second guess it, grab it by both horns and go for it! Good luck!
Haha thanks man, definitely looking at it in a positive light!

13Beast
21st Feb 2019, 11:19
Today I received my official Letter of Offer for RAAF Pilot. I'm being appointed on April 5th, and will be in the April OTS. Stoked!!!

It's been a long road, I first applied for RAAF pilot in 2008. Persistence pays off in the end. Also, any older applicants reading this, I am 38 (turning 39 this year). So, clearly we are in for a chance just as much as the younger blokes.

If anyone else reading this thread is also due to start in the April RAAF OTS, let me know!

BordZ
21st Feb 2019, 11:31
Today I received my official Letter of Offer for RAAF Pilot. I'm being appointed on April 5th, and will be in the April OTS. Stoked!!!

It's been a long road, I first applied for RAAF pilot in 2008. Persistence pays off in the end. Also, any older applicants reading this, I am 38 (turning 39 this year). So, clearly we are in for a chance just as much as the younger blokes.

If anyone else reading this thread is also due to start in the April RAAF OTS, let me know!

Hi 13beast, congrats, huge achievment. There was a guy in my ASP who is mid 30s and is pushing hard to get in, unfortunately both of us missed out last year and I was hoping to run into him at my next asp (which will hopefully be late may) Unfortunately I think he has a few things to jump through before he can get there again though. However its great to know he has a real chance and age isn't a factor, the guy is hardcore committed. Out of curiosity how did you score? I got a low rec for both pilot and mission elementary last year and did not get an offer to proceed to OSB. Hoping to change that this year with some mad prep.

13Beast
21st Feb 2019, 23:04
Thanks Bordz. Keep at it, I think ASP a second time around would be easier...simply due to knowing what to expect to some extent.

I received a high rec, but on the lower end of a high rec. There are a few people on this forum who scored a bit higher and were into the RAAF a lot quicker than I was.

Good luck with your application and hope you get through!

goatpaste
28th Feb 2019, 11:23
I just attended a YOU session. I did well enough on the aptitude for Pilot jobs to appear on my JOR.

I'm 48 and 163cm tall, very fit. Just on the cutoff for both age and height. Does anyone think that it's worth my time applying for the pilot intake? I've done a few civilian flying lessons years ago and loved it, but time and money prevented going further at the time. Would kill for a chance to fly professionally.

Slezy9
28th Feb 2019, 23:08
Don't worry about the height. You meet the minimum, that's all that is required. As for age, don't know. Apply and see what they say? You can always pull out if they offer you NAV or something else aside from PLT.

quantify
1st Mar 2019, 10:18
Hi, have any of you found any practice material for the Situational awareness test or have any tips specifically for that test? Cheers.

BordZ
2nd Mar 2019, 23:31
I just attended a YOU session. I did well enough on the aptitude for Pilot jobs to appear on my JOR.

I'm 48 and 163cm tall, very fit. Just on the cutoff for both age and height. Does anyone think that it's worth my time applying for the pilot intake? I've done a few civilian flying lessons years ago and loved it, but time and money prevented going further at the time. Would kill for a chance to fly professionally.

just go for it, worst case is you don't make it.

Robertsmith39
4th Mar 2019, 20:49
Wow well done Beast! What an awesome achievement mate. Do you have a preference to what aircraft type you'd like to go to?

Hearing your story has encouraged me to take the first steps in starting my journey in becoming a Pilot or ACO. I don't think it'll be an easy road, but at least if I have a go and fail a few times I can say that I tried.

Robertsmith39
4th Mar 2019, 21:00
Beast, well done mate! There's hopes for old farts like myself yet. Do you have a type you're hoping to get streamed on to eventually?

Hearing your story has given me the kick up the arse I need to get my shit together and apply. I meet the education requirements after some further investigation so why not? Worst they can say is go away and improve yourself and come again.

Vdizzle
6th Mar 2019, 10:41
G'day all, Is there anyone on here that has experience with Service Transfer?

I'm currently in Army and would like to try for the ASP. I saw on Defence Jobs they've got both Army and Navy as priority for pilots. I'd even consider RAAF pilot as well if they're also expanding in that area due to the JSF?

Primary reason is basically I love the service life, I'd stay in forever if I could. Did civvie workforce before Army and that was a big bag of small D's. It's just that the role I'm in is going through changes and it's basically getting squeezed at the senior NCO level so future prospects of advancing my career are limited. I feel like I'd be more happier going for commission now and becoming an Officer. I've loved aircraft as a kid, took a few licks at the local airport to do some introductory flying over the years and I'm now at that stage of - F..k it let's do it, I don't want to say to myself on my death bed, 'would I have passed?'.

Thank you to everyone in this forum, lots of great information for aspiring candidates.

Niku.
7th Mar 2019, 12:00
Hey everyone,
Great to see so many people getting through the process! Best of luck to you guys.
Anyway, I've been watching this thread for a long time now, and since I'm getting closer and closer to graduating, it seems like a good time. I'm currently in Year 11, and I'm set on joining the RAAF. The main decision I am trying to make at the moment is the method of entry I want to go for. I'm not too keen on going to ADFA, so as someone who wants to get going as soon as possible, is Direct Entry worth it? The general consensus seems to be that people who join straight out of school tend to get turned down and told to "come back in a year or two". So, is it worth spending those few years at ADFA? Or trying straight off the bat?

Doddsy93
7th Mar 2019, 13:17
Hey Team,

I know there are pages and pages of content and I've read through a fair chunk, however I am hoping some one can take the time out and give me a brief overview of the process.

Currently a MWO in the RAN and looking at transferring to RAAF Pilot post Fighter Controller time.

I am seeking information regarding what is tested under the new process during the advanced testing part of initial selection and then how the new ASP runs.

I have a generic idea, however, if someone has recently done it and can lay it out for me would be most greatful. Might even tee up a tour of a ship in Sydney if you're a local.

Cheers Team!

Libelle70
12th Mar 2019, 01:24
Hi Everyone
Thanks for all the awesome info on this forum. I've loved reading about everyone's experiences right back to the original Hornetboy.
I'm preparing for the ASP but have been unable to clarify whether any of the testing domains allow the use of pen and paper. I'm preparing without but I'm really keen to hear from anyone who can sort this out for me.
Thanks for your help

BordZ
14th Mar 2019, 10:20
Hi Everyone
Thanks for all the awesome info on this forum. I've loved reading about everyone's experiences right back to the original Hornetboy.
I'm preparing for the ASP but have been unable to clarify whether any of the testing domains allow the use of pen and paper. I'm preparing without but I'm really keen to hear from anyone who can sort this out for me.
Thanks for your help

Hi Libelle, It doesn't allow pen and paper for any of the tests.

quantify
19th Mar 2019, 12:14
Hi guys, in the Instructions that ACMC sends you for ASP it vaguely describes some of the tests. I noticed that the images of the tests had a (C) UK MOD on them, any idea what this could mean? My guess is that they are a modified version of the test that the RAF gives to their air crew.

Cheers.

tayra
20th Mar 2019, 07:55
copyright UK Ministry of Defence

quantify
22nd Mar 2019, 09:05
copyright UK Ministry of Defence
Cool, thanks.

FlyingSoon
22nd Mar 2019, 13:10
G'day all, Is there anyone on here that has experience with Service Transfer?

I'm currently in Army and would like to try for the ASP. I saw on Defence Jobs they've got both Army and Navy as priority for pilots. I'd even consider RAAF pilot as well if they're also expanding in that area due to the JSF?

Primary reason is basically I love the service life, I'd stay in forever if I could. Did civvie workforce before Army and that was a big bag of small D's. It's just that the role I'm in is going through changes and it's basically getting squeezed at the senior NCO level so future prospects of advancing my career are limited. I feel like I'd be more happier going for commission now and becoming an Officer. I've loved aircraft as a kid, took a few licks at the local airport to do some introductory flying over the years and I'm now at that stage of - F..k it let's do it, I don't want to say to myself on my death bed, 'would I have passed?'.

Thank you to everyone in this forum, lots of great information for aspiring candidates.

It's worth keeping in mind that the training pipeline length pretty much means most future JSF pilots are either already in the training process, or already qualified.

As far as service transfer goes, you will have an easier time applying for a commission in Army than transferring. It's notoriously difficult to get out of Army from in service roles, but I don't have a lot of knowledge on OR to Officer transfers across services.

Definitely weigh up the risk and the result; remember Army now no longer does SSOs, and RMC is notorious for being a tough slog. You'll sacrifice 18 months of your life, and in the end might not even make it through. The risk is high but so is the reward.

Pm for any specific questions.

Best, fs
​​

FlyingSoon
22nd Mar 2019, 13:15
So, is it worth spending those few years at ADFA? Or trying straight off the bat?

You'll definitely be more likely to get in via ADFA, due to the lack of life experience you've identified. Going forward, you'll be in a better position with a degree from ADFA under your belt. I regret not completing a degree, either civilian or military, before going DEO. It will be very difficult to get a DEO position from high school without solid evidence of life experience.

The only issue is that previously DEOs can resign if they scrub course, but ADFA graduates have a ROSO and are stuck in service if they scrub.

Best, fs

asuthe13
24th Mar 2019, 05:52
Hi everyone,

After about 2.5 years of being in the DFR pipeline, I've finally received my offer to attend NEOC 61 as a pilot candidate. I got my offer about 3 weeks after attending my OSB. If anyone else is coming to Creswell on the same course, flick me a PM.

Niku.
24th Mar 2019, 14:01
You'll definitely be more likely to get in via ADFA, due to the lack of life experience you've identified. Going forward, you'll be in a better position with a degree from ADFA under your belt. I regret not completing a degree, either civilian or military, before going DEO. It will be very difficult to get a DEO position from high school without solid evidence of life experience.

The only issue is that previously DEOs can resign if they scrub course, but ADFA graduates have a ROSO and are stuck in service if they scrub.

Best, fs
Thanks for the info! If you don't mind me asking, how old were you when you went DEO?

ndp12
29th Mar 2019, 07:35
Hi, thanks everyone for the sheer amount of content here - really really useful stuff! I'm currently in the DFR pipeline - applying for RAAF & RAN Pilot.

I've just been invited to do my second round of testing in Sydney and I assume this is the step before ASP. Does anyone know what this entails? I've only been told it's a 'battery of tests' but would love to prepare as much as possible.

Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been covered above - I'm slowly working my way up!

AyyJake
31st Mar 2019, 10:37
Hi, thanks everyone for the sheer amount of content here - really really useful stuff! I'm currently in the DFR pipeline - applying for RAAF & RAN Pilot.

I've just been invited to do my second round of testing in Sydney and I assume this is the step before ASP. Does anyone know what this entails? I've only been told it's a 'battery of tests' but would love to prepare as much as possible.

Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been covered above - I'm slowly working my way up!
Yup so you are going for your pilot aptitude training, it will be the same as the you session testing but on different topics. It will be Gauge reading at speed, it will ask you for example "whats the airspeed?" and you will have to look at the display and choose the closest answer. There is some spacial awareness questions where it will show a silhouette of a plane and say what will it look like after a right turn. You then have four options to choose from, the next set is similar but it will show you cockpit instruments and you have to choose which silhouette matches. The last test is rapid maths!.

AyyJake
31st Mar 2019, 10:40
I just received my ASP dates for 7th and 8th of May. Anyone got any tips or prep suggestions. Cheers in advance!

ndp12
10th Apr 2019, 06:13
I just received my ASP dates for 7th and 8th of May. Anyone got any tips or prep suggestions. Cheers in advance!
Thanks for the reply above! Will work on my quick maths!

Good luck at ASP. How long did it take for you to get ASP dates after finishing 2nd round aptitude testing?

Thanks

AusAviation
23rd Apr 2019, 02:26
I recently attended ASP and fortunately was recommended for progression for Air Force Pilot and Mission both with a moderate standing (ADFA and DEO for both) as well as Army and Navy pilot both with a strong standing (ADFA for both).

I now need to submit my order of preferences but need some more advice.

One person I spoke to at ACMC suggested to me that Army and Navy view you more favourably if you place their service as first preference whereas Air Force do not really consider that when deciding to give you an offer. Alternatively, the Enlistment Coordinator I spoke to just said that all services consider your preference order.

My real personal preference, like most, would be Air Force Pilot but I certainly wouldn't be disappointed by either Army or Navy.

Given my stronger standing for Army and Navy I wouldn't want to jeopardise my chances there by placing Air Force first but also don't want to lower my chances of Air Force selection. Is it better to place Air Force as first preference and rely on my stronger standing for Army and Navy to keep in consideration or just commit fully to Army or Navy and place one of them as first?

Lastly, the decision between Army and Navy. I do like the idea of the maritime aspect but feel that the Army may have more combat opportunities. Which service provides the most thrilling/rewarding career with the best conditions?

FlyHigh323
24th Apr 2019, 09:35
G'Day Everyone,

I'm currently in yr 11 and preparing to begin the recruitment and selection process to become a RAAF Pilot, I'm very dedicated to achieving this and have looked at the different avenues to join the RAAF as a pilot. I have my eyes set on doing this by first attending ADFA and I had a couple of questions as too what I should do for preparation, are those websites that say they have good content to learn on worth paying for or should I seek other ways of preparation (if so what ways). I'm also an air force cadet and was wondering whether that help throughout the [rocess in terms of looking at me over someone who isn't one?

Thanks.

13Beast
27th Apr 2019, 08:29
I recently attended ASP and fortunately was recommended for progression for Air Force Pilot and Mission both with a moderate standing (ADFA and DEO for both) as well as Army and Navy pilot both with a strong standing (ADFA for both).

I now need to submit my order of preferences but need some more advice.

One person I spoke to at ACMC suggested to me that Army and Navy view you more favourably if you place their service as first preference whereas Air Force do not really consider that when deciding to give you an offer. Alternatively, the Enlistment Coordinator I spoke to just said that all services consider your preference order.

My real personal preference, like most, would be Air Force Pilot but I certainly wouldn't be disappointed by either Army or Navy.

Given my stronger standing for Army and Navy I wouldn't want to jeopardise my chances there by placing Air Force first but also don't want to lower my chances of Air Force selection. Is it better to place Air Force as first preference and rely on my stronger standing for Army and Navy to keep in consideration or just commit fully to Army or Navy and place one of them as first?

Lastly, the decision between Army and Navy. I do like the idea of the maritime aspect but feel that the Army may have more combat opportunities. Which service provides the most thrilling/rewarding career with the best conditions?

You are overthinking this. Put down the services you want to fly for in that order. FYI, if you prefer to fly Army or Navy, then your ASP score will put you in a better shot for those rather than RAAF; as the RAAF to date with ASP scores tend to be leaning towards the higher scoring candidates - and this may simply come down to a greater number of applicants wanting RAAF so they can afford to be choosy. From what I have been told about the other services (Navy in particular) this is not the case.

Also, you can choose to be sneaky with your preferences and when the OSBs are coming up for a particular service and drop preferences so that you can be in on a preferred service OSB first and foremost and play the waiting game to see if they want you. At a later stage you can add on another service to your preference list and be thrown onto upcoming OSBs for that. I was going down this route with keeping RAAF as my sole preference for a period of time, then seeing how things panned out if I received a LOO within a reasonable amount of time...if that didn't happen, I was going to add RAN as a preference. If you are genuinely happy flying with any, then go for all the preferences - just be prepared that potentially you may attend an OSB for your #2 or #3 preference before your #1...and may receive an LOO for that #2 or #3 before any offer for your #1 comes about. From what I have been told, the only real burning of bridges would occur if you turned down an OSB or LOO for one service while hoping to get in with another...and then tried for that service again after realising your preferred service wasn't going to materialise. That would not be advisable.

Wrt Army vs Navy: Navy will have longer training to get you from street to seat than Army will, given Navy do both BFTS and 1FTS. You'll also have your fixed-wing pilot wings to go with your rotary-wing pilot wings at the end of it though, and this may be more appealing to you. Perhaps it may make Navy pilots more attractive for cross-service transfers, but that's just speculation on my behalf. Regarding deployments, well, Navy guys will definitely go out to sea a fair bit. Surely that's attractive if you want to see more of the world. Can't comment on Army pilot life who may potentially be more at the whim of conflicts abroad/humanitarian requirements to experience deployments.

finestkind
28th Apr 2019, 01:08
Ausaviation.

The OSB does not have any idea of how you ranked your preferences. In respect to receiving a LOO that is not your first option, you do not have to reject it due waiting for your first preference LOO. If you would take this if you did not get what you wanted than accept it. You can always change your mind later if you get the preferred LOO.

mrh90ftw
12th Jun 2019, 11:06
I find it amazing that this thread has been open since before I was born and now I want to enter aviation.

I have my ASP on 7-9 July and I have only just heard about it via email about my OSB, I was wondering if I get gather some tips and help as for what to expect?

titanpilot
13th Jun 2019, 03:22
Expect to be asked:
- Your motivations for entering the ADF and the particular service you are applying for.
- Personal questions relating to how you will cope with the lifestyle changes, being away from home, etc.
- Knowledge of the service you are applying for. Know all the aircraft and ships if you are applying for the Navy.
- What is the difference between a leader and a manager. What kind of leadership experience do you have?
- What operations are the ADF currently involved in and some recent ones.
- Some basic Geography. Particularly around war zones/conflict areas.
- Some current affairs. Watch the news for the weeks leading up to the OSB.
-Where you could be posted. How much you will be payed. What your minimum service period is.
- What training you will undergo. When, where and for how long.
- Ranks for the service you are applying for.
- Maths questions like 26 x 14. Learn how to use techniques to solve questions like this and practice using phone apps right before you go in to get your brain in the mode. I was asked a question like this and they were very impressed when I answered correctly within a few seconds. Also, some time/distance questions relating to flight times etc. Know how to calculate using knots and miles as well.

This list is not complete. You may be asked all or none of these questions. There will definitely be some I have not included here. Everything (almost) you need to know is either in the job description for the job you are going for​​​​​, or on the department of defence website. I compiled a folder with all of this info and more and studied it every spare moment I got until I knew it back to front.
You need to be confident without being cocky. The only way to achieve this is by knowing your stuff. There is no way to bluff your way through. If you study all that I have told you and plan your responses you will be giving yourself the best chance you can and it will definitely help with your confidence. Make no mistake, the difference between answering one or two questions correctly is the difference between a recommendation or high recommendation. One of those will likely get you a spot at flight school and the other won't.
I have done my OSB twice and pretty much nailed it both times so I know what I am talking about.

Slezy9
16th Jun 2019, 09:15
I have done my OSB twice and pretty much nailed it both times so I know what I am talking about.

Modest too! I'd suggest that you didn't, pretty much nail it, if you had to do it twice.

titanpilot
16th Jun 2019, 10:26
Modest too! I'd suggest that you didn't, pretty much nail it, if you had to do it twice.
Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself unless you know what you are talking about. There are (or we're) two components to getting offered a pilots job. The flying testing and the OSB. I was told by the OSB panel that I was one of the best officer candidates that they had seen in a long time. Unfortunately my flying was average so I only got a recommendation, not a high recommendation the first time around.

josephfeatherweight
16th Jun 2019, 23:34
Titan, don't talk like that - it's unbecoming of a potential Officer, disrespectful to an experienced QFI and the fact is, you did sound rather arrogant.
The Defence community in Oz is a small one, don't make a name for yourself before you even get a crack a it, particularly if, as per your admission, your flying was "average".
Slezy9's flying was a fair bit better than average, so best pull ya head in! Good luck!

titanpilot
17th Jun 2019, 00:53
Titan, don't talk like that - it's unbecoming of a potential Officer, disrespectful to an experienced QFI and the fact is, you did sound rather arrogant.
The Defence community in Oz is a small one, don't make a name for yourself before you even get a crack a it, particularly if, as per your admission, your flying was "average".
Slezy9's flying was a fair bit better than average, so best pull ya head in! Good luck!
Mate, I took a fair bit of my time (typing on a phone) to give honest advice to a candidate. I got and expected nothing on return. In return for that I was attacked by Slezy9 and insulted despite the fact that he knows nothing of my circumstances. If that is the way people who give advice are treated then good luck getting any more advice.

josephfeatherweight
17th Jun 2019, 01:18
Oh my, this is what is turning up on the doorstep as one of our "best officer candidates" - there are plenty of people on here who can and have provided constructive advice without being so precious about it.
"Attacked" and "Insulted" - dude, you've gotta harden' up a bit... I retract my previous "Good luck!"

donpizmeov
17th Jun 2019, 23:42
He would have been sent to UH1H back in the day Jo. You know he would have. :}

junior.VH-LFA
24th Jun 2019, 11:41
Considering the vast array of people in this thread who are doing the job, I'm sure people will survive without your world beating advice and attitude Titan. If you do get in you should try going guns hot like that on your QFI's! :ok:

hansfalkenhagen
25th Jun 2019, 13:34
I'm gonna make a proposal to Leo to have the RAAF's motto changed to:

"...serve your country by day, complain on anonymous internet forums by night."

Reckon it suits?

freddish
28th Jun 2019, 05:21
hey guys,
my name is Fred and i attended the asp on October 4 of 2018. i applied for direct entry raaf pilot at age 18 and unfortunately did not get offered anything. i was not at uni and was having a gap year at the time. which im sure you can all guess, failiure was going to happen as an 18yo with barely any life experience and not studying anything. i realized my mistake and since the asp i have been at uni studying aero engineering at RMIT and have reapplied for ADFA. So my question is to anyone on this forum who has reattempted the asp: was it any easier having done it before? how did you go results wise? anything i should do between now and october? ie preparation methods? and any general advice and results for second time round guys.
cheers! Fred

tayra
3rd Jul 2019, 11:34
Anecdotally a few people off my ASP had another crack and the majority improved their scores.