View Full Version : RAAF Flight Screening Programme

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26th Sep 2005, 05:51
Bzulu, do you always justify you comments (and actions) ? If so you must drive your instructor to the brink.

26th Sep 2005, 07:13
Cap Sand Dune

UK and Saudi as I recall.

Pleasant chap and always did the best by his studes (as did we all). Unlike the W*yne M**gan types.

27th Sep 2005, 08:42
Anyone else waiting to get the flight screening call up?

Its been almost 2 months for me...

Captain Sand Dune
28th Sep 2005, 03:29
aaaah yes....Mr M. Nearly forgotten him, I had!

Fortunately he wasn't representative of those we worked with.

29th Sep 2005, 01:51
TheShadow/ Capt Sand Dune

Gentlemen really. We all need Mr M's. That way we mere mortals have something to aspire too.

Lovely chap, reminds me so much of those wonderful, what are they called, type. That's it politicianís. Those teller's of truths

29th Sep 2005, 11:00
finestkind wrote

Bzulu, do you always justify you comments (and actions) ? If so you must drive your instructor to the brink.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

30th Sep 2005, 01:16
Had my medicals yesterday and all is well, apparently, so everything is done, finished, out of the way and I just have to wait to hear from PSA.

The dentist I had was about my age, short, very pretty, and for almost the whole time in the chair she kept resting her breast on my cheek, ear and forehead while peering into my mouth. Gaaaaaaaah. "You're missing some adult teeth"...."What, sorry, wasn't listening" Gaaaaaaaaah. "Suction ... you're drooling" ... "Huh?" Gaaaaaaaah.

I found the whole blurry vision thing very disconcerting. If that's what it's like to be old, bloody hell I'm not looking forward to it. My boss sent me a text message that I got just after the appointment, and I couldn't read it until about an hour or two later. The ENT guy looked at me and said "you've just been to the eye doctor haven't you ... either that or you're dead."

The nurse at the ENT place did another hearing test as well, which I thought was a bit of a waste of time seeing as we were in a room with a sliding door through which I could hear the kids running around the waiting room, other doors opening and closing, people talking in the hallway - and this was with the special "soundproof" headphones on! All went well anyway though, so that's cool.

Back to work ....

30th Sep 2005, 23:23
Magic- I couldn't be a pilot because my eye sight got bad. But i decided that if i couldn't fly- then i fix them instead. As it happens now, as a techie i'm getting more flying in than some of our crews. I've even had a chance to fly (at the controls kinda thing- i don't know what all the fuss is about flyboys- its easy! stick left= herc left!:) )

if you want to serve, be a techie you can transfer to aircrew when you are all big and grown up, or you might find you have a real apitute for getting oily!

whatever you choose. Good Luck


1st Oct 2005, 05:13
Hi guys, this is my first time on this site so excuse me if i have done anything wrong! I am an applicant for pilot and have passed the aircrew testing and have the assessment day with the medical, psych and defence interview coming up fairly soon. I was just wondering if anybody out there might be able to give me a heads up about what to expect? Also i have been having a little trouble with one of the preparation questions, "what is the difference between an officer and a non-commissioned rank?".

From what i can figure, aside from being in charge of the non-commisioned rank, the officer has overall responsibility. Just wondering if i am missing something that is very obvious and pehaps how others have answered the q?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

1st Oct 2005, 08:36

I think it really depends on the type of person who would be willing to do something else to get a foot in the door if at first unsuccessful. By the way I lost the screenname ItsAllMagic ever since they decided to just show usernames. :(


Relax man you haven't done anything wrong :ok: I think you're basically right, a Commissioned Officer has greater overall responsibility, and is expected to lead. Which is why he/she gets the higher rank. There are also Non-Commissioned Officers (NCO's), which seem to form a bridge between the Officers and the Airmen. But I'm sure someone can explain this much better than me.

As for the medical....expect to bear all. The psych and defence interview are just answering basic questions so they can rate you for suitability. Don't get nervous about what you don't know, just do what you can then be confident about what you do know!


2nd Oct 2005, 11:44
just to give you prospective guys a heads up, the training continuum is somewhat backlogged at the moment. BFTS is now taking well over the 6 months timeframe and 2fts is also taking quite a while longer than expected. For RAN guys when you get to 723 sqn and complete rotary conversion, expect to be flying there for quite a while 18 months + to 2 yrs waiting for OFT conversion.

I'm sure you guys probably have already heard this elsewhere. Just make sure you know all this before you join. It is at LEAST 6 years minimum before you are even remotely likely to be operational, possibly longer.

I am speaking from an educated position. I am currently in the training pipeline.

Best of luck guys.

2nd Oct 2005, 21:35
Hornetboy - Check you PM's.


3rd Oct 2005, 00:38

Regarding the time it takes to become operational. If you are only talking about Navy more like five years and as for the RAAF four years would be a long time at the moment.

The guys that have just read they could be waiting 5 years its not like you are sitting in an office every day doing paperwork. You will be out flying either the PC9 or the Squirrel most days.


3rd Oct 2005, 22:14
Could someone from BFTS 206B PM me please?

5th Oct 2005, 14:49
Sorry to hijack the thread slightly, but it didn't seem worth making a new one...

I just got my letter of offer to start IOC at Point Cook at the end of the month. I was just wondering whether it's worth taking a car down there or not? The drive won't be too bad, I live in Newcastle, but I was wondering if it would just be an unnessecary distraction having it there. Any opinions?

Anyone else starting at the end of the month?

Thanks guys.

6th Oct 2005, 21:56
I believe it is still plano to +1.75 d for pilot = 6/6 vision or better and a little higher ( as in slightly worse eyesight) for wso. Generally if you wear glasses or contact lenses or have had laser surgery aircrew is out.

7th Oct 2005, 05:07
Take your car. I wish I had taken mine rather than paying $40 dollars every time I wanted to go to Melbourne.

8th Oct 2005, 05:04
The car's primary function turns into a secondary function when it comes to inspection time. Great place to stash your dirty gear/ training magazines ;)

8th Oct 2005, 05:23
I thought some of you might appreciate these images ...

Sunset on the flight line ...

http://www.geosim.com.au/~michael/Sunset on the Flight Line.jpg

The mighty parrots assembled ...

Click here (http://www.geosim.com.au/~michael/Flightline-stitched.jpg) for the bigger version - I didn't want to blow the page size out by posting the full thing here.

24th Jan 2006, 03:57
Finally worked out how to find this thread in the system so I thought I'd bring it back to the top.

Anyone started the process recently, started/finished BFTS recently, got any updates or gotchas or tales of woe courtesy of Recruiting?

I'm just waiting for The Letter, hoping to get onto a March/April/May SSO course at RMC-D, and then on to BFTS later this year.

24th Jan 2006, 05:40
Hi wishtobflying,

I just put my initial application into recruiting last week for RAAF pilot.
Spoke to them today however and they are saying that because I was once in the Army (Reserves about 6 years ago) Recruiting need to request my information from the RAAF, who need to request the info from the Army. End result is that I may not hear anything for upto 3 months given it is the Reserves. Hopefully won't take that long.

Good luck with your application :ok:


24th Jan 2006, 09:04
Yes, the Reserves "gotcha" - at one stage I was told that to make myself more competitive I should consider joining the Reserves. Off I went to Recruiting, where I was told that I couldn't have two applications in The System at once, that I would have to effectively tear up my Pilot application, go into Reserves, start their training, then in 12 months or whatever re-start my application for pilot, as a serving member this time. I wouldn't have to do the aptitude test again, but would have to go through everything else, and then I was told "and you'll also have to apply for a release from Reserves, and they may not let you go".

So that was the end of that. Don't worry about a 3 month delay, you should get used to it actually! Use the time to go and join Boy Scouts as a leader or start a band or do a short TAFE course or do something else leadership oriented, don't just sit around and wait. They don't like that.

30th Jan 2006, 22:36
I'm pleased to report that I've been offered a place on the April SSO course with a possible start at BFTS in June. What a relief to finally have that confirmation. Now the real journey starts.

15th Feb 2006, 00:50
Hi Guys,

Im new to this forum and im glad i found it. This is my very first post.
Id like to introduce myself, my name is Joe and i live in brisbane and im 21 years old.

I've just recently put my application in as an RAAF Pilot for the FIRST time (Direct Entry Officer as my first preference), so far so good. I had my JOES day on the 25th of January where i sat a general apptitude test (and did really well so my recruiter says), on the same day i also sat a ADFA test because my 2nd preference was to be a pilot but to go through ADFA. So After these test I had an interview with my recruiter and he said i did really well that day and i can go forward with my application as an ADF piliot. I was asked to come back on the 6th of January for further Aircrew specialist testing for pilots.

On the 6th of Febuary the spec test included, tests on Intrument reading, Instrument comprehension to vislulise an aircraft in 3D, Rigorouse math questions and some math/phsics type problem sloving. So after that i had to sit a test which assessed you on your hand-eye co-ordination after a two hour stressfully waiting break. At the end of the day i sat down with my recruiter and he told me that i have PASSED all the tests and i quilify to be a pilot. I was so happy after hearing those words because people who have done these spec test for pilots know how challenging and stressfull they are, so i was very relieved.

Now i am waiting for my ASSESMENT day on the 20th of March, where i have my Medical, Interview with the Phycologist and then an interview with the Interviewing Officer, also i still havent had to do a wrtten essay yet and i was told i'll have to do the essay on the assesment day. If i pass this assessment day i have to goto Tawmorth NSW for 2 weeks to do a Flgiht Screening program and Officer Selection Board.

So i was just wondering if there is any people here that has been in my situtaion, if so help would be greatly apprictiated. I was wondering what I have to wirte in that essay on the assesment day and any tips i can have to help me out with the interviews with the Phycologist and the Officer.

Thank you for reading my Thread and hope to hear from people.


Like This - Do That
15th Feb 2006, 01:50

Good on you for wanting to join up ... although I'm not a RAAFie (I'm ex & about to rejoin Army) I can offer you one bit of advice. Your spelling and sentence structure are pretty crook. It might seem as though I'm being a pedant, but that sort of sloppiness gets noticed.

I'm sure you have visions of zooming around the place in a Hornet, or plonking a Herc on a dirt strip the size of a postage stamp (to disgorge ugly types like me), or patrolling the oceans of the world in an Orion. However, you're expected to be an officer first, pilot second. Attention to detail is crucial, for officers and for aircrew.

PPRuNe and similar forums (fora?) usually offer a 'preview' function, but real life doesn't.

If I come across as a tosser, I apologise. I don't mean to put you off. Good luck with your application.

15th Feb 2006, 04:50
You might get something out of this thread:


:ok: :ok:

15th Feb 2006, 05:58
thanks mate, that thread is a real big help,

Like thisdo that, you didnt help me at all

15th Feb 2006, 06:09
wow this thread is great, so much information.

Im currently waiting on my Assesment day on the 20th march. I have got my medical, interview with the physcologist and interviewing officer on that day. I have passed the general apptitude test and the aircrew spec test but i still havent done a written essay. I'm assuming i have to do the essay on the assesment day, and i was wondering what the essay i have to write is about?


15th Feb 2006, 06:34
Nothing you can prepare for, so don't worry about it. Relax and be yourself. That's what it's all about. If you've passed the technical stuff, that's good, now they just want to make sure you're the type of person they want, so just go in smiling, be relaxed and confident in yourself.

If you don't get through, then it wasn't meant to be, don't sweat it.

15th Feb 2006, 06:55
You can either take the advice of Like This - Do That or fail assessment.

Your choice.

Bluntly, your written communications skills seem to be very weak indeed.

15th Feb 2006, 11:30

My son went through RAAF direct entry a few years ago and learned much from PPRuNe, and much from listening to people already in the military.

Lesson 1: In the military you're in an adult world and expected to act like one. If you can't take advice, you can always look back upon your (short) time in the military and realise the few months you spent there weren't entirely wasted. During training you often only get told things once - if you haven't been listening, you get scrubbed. Around 50% of people who started on Flight Screening, then BFTS, then 2FTS, didn't make it.

Lesson 2: I work in a different professional area but, people who cannot write usually do not get employed or, if they do, don't last long.

Going on my son's experience, it is worth the effort, but be prepared to learn from all.


15th Feb 2006, 13:41
I spent 13 years in the RAAF including 5 years instructing at 2FTS on the Macchi and PC9. My information may be old but hopefully, still relevant. As others have said, you will definately need to address your spelling and sentence construction when you are writing an essay otherwise you will draw unwarranted attention to yourself. Having said that, just about all the military (and civil) pilots I have ever met have been terrible at English and grammar so it's not that important, but you are trying to create the impression to a selection board that you have your act together. At the end of the day, they try and teach you how to write at Officer Training School and through other various avenues but if you have the raw skills, you will find it a lot easier.
At a selection board, they are trying to get a feel for how you will cope with the demands of flying training. It would help to be very familiar with the types of aircraft that are flown, where they are based, what squadrons operate them, a general understanding of the role of each aircraft and how they operate together and with other air forces. Having a knowledge of basic aircraft flight principles would be helpful. Try and find out what the role of a junior officer in the military is. When I went through it was just to drink heaps of piss and be a fool. When caught, you just had to say "guilty as charged sir" . Things have changed somewhat however and an officer is expected to not only perform his primary duty but also any number of secondary duties, some of which may be quite a task. In your annual Officer Evaluation Report, your performance in these secondary duties is reviewed. They are also trying to find out how motivated you are. The course is long and difficult and in 5 years instruction, I rarely met a student who didn't lose motivation at some stage. Motivation is essential. You can have the best aptitude score but if they don't think you are motivated to see it through, you won't get selected.
The flying training system is a lot better than what it used to be. The days of the abusive, angry instructor are long past. If you put in the effort, the system will do its best to pass you. To pass does require steady progression and you definately do have to have an ability to take criticism in a mature fashion and to go away and learn from the debrief. If you make it on to the course, you will generally have the raw ability - it's what you do with it that counts. I had a student once with low ability but the tenacity of ten men. He recently finished an F/A 18 exchange with the US Navy. Layman is correct when he says you are operating in an adult world. Integrity is paramount. If you can't be trusted in small things, how can you be trusted with that Hercules for a week overseas?
When it comes to dealing with psychologists and writing essays, be yourself. These people can spot bull**** a mile away.
Anyway, I hope to have helped. Best of luck with it all.

15th Feb 2006, 17:55
As an Ex GD RAAF, I'd like to offer you some advice to help your quest.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Go and read your first post, would you invest the time to help you, after reading that?

You may not realise it, however you have stumbled into the best source of information that you could possibly have. So be very humble, go back edit you first post, do it properly and admit you were wrong to Like this do That.

Who knows someone reading this forum might be on your board or instructing you down the track......

Then and only then you will get the help that you ask for and perhaps more than you could imagine. ;)

Over to you.

15th Feb 2006, 19:27
Like thisdo that, you didnt help me at all

wrong attitude buddie .... :(

take notice of the posts above or you are going to "blow it"

eagle 86
15th Feb 2006, 20:25
As a longtime Oz tri service flying instructor my advice to you is don't waste your time - you might have the aptitude but you don't have the attitude.

15th Feb 2006, 20:58
Welcome to the viper's pit young lad.

This place is a good source of info. Some of it is ill advised and under informed though. Regardless, the trick is sort out the wheat from the chaff. Something you will get used to should you get beyond the next step.


16th Feb 2006, 01:48
I just want to say sorry guys.

I know it seems i have the wrong attitude, but if i did, i wouldnt be on this forum seeking help. I know my written communication is poor, so next time i will go over what i write thoroughly. English was most worst subject at school.

I do appeiciate all the help given to me, but please dont think i have the wrong attitude. At the moment all i think about is being in the airforce as a pliot.

For the past monthes i've been on the defense jobs website's and other websites doing research on the profession i wish to persue. I came across this forum and realised i can recieve advice from people in this industry or from people in the same postion as me.

Once again i do apologise. I seek help and i'll i want to do is learn, that is why im on this forum. I've learnt a very big lesson in just a few posts!

eagle 86
16th Feb 2006, 02:05
Showing improvement already JOJO.
In attitude not English!

17th Feb 2006, 01:30

Firstly I have passed through all the process in the recruiting stage, to where I am waiting for an offer to join. Iím expecting this to happen within the next month. So I havenít been in the services but I have had very recent access to the recruiting process.

Most of this is pretty general but enough that you should get an idea. A lot of this stuff is written in the other thread anyway.

To answer your questions directly. Yes you will have to do a written essay, you get about 10 minutes. It isnít an outrageous guess as to what the topic is about. Your medical you have no control over so donít worry about it. Your psych testing you have no control over so donít worry about it.

For the defence interview you should prepare by knowing what is going on with the ADF at the moment. Example, what aircraft, where they fly from, are any deployed overseas, any current events etc. If you are as keen as what you say you are, you should know all this stuff anyway. I didnít actually get asked any of these sort of questions, but I know some people that have.

Tamworth, Iím not sure what you are doing to prepare for the flying side of things, however certainly get some hours. Also one or two hours of aerobatics probably wonít hurt but you donít need to be getting all Redbull air-race. I had 5hours on C152 and 2hours in a Pitts and felt that it was enough.

Here is the point that the guys above were trying to make. At this stage you will undergo a lot of constructive criticism about how you flew. If you donít take kindly to that criticism (e.g. improve your grammar/English as above) and donít take this criticism on board you might as well not waste your time because they will can you. The instructors are reasonably short but are very fair. You donít get a lot of positive feedback. If they donít criticise something you have probably done it reasonably well. Try to think of and ask pertinent questions to help yourself improve. Remember you only get one chance from here.

For the Selection Board (at Tamworth after the flying) you will definitely want to prepare. Not just in your RAAF knowledge, but also what you know and think about yourself. There is a days worth of group activities, and then the board proper. For the board they are going to put you under pressure to see how you react to it. I just treated the board as a debate. They will try and point out a perceived weakness; you need to try to counter that somehow. Once again though, everyone had a different board, as the board members adjust to the situation/your answers. The guy who got the kickass for the board, walked out thinking he had failed.

Like the guys above have written - attitude is important. When I went to flight screening (which is the first stage where I felt that I was directly competing against people) I believed that I wanted to get into the RAAF more than any of the other 8 people on the program. Note that I didnít think that I was better than everyone else - I had the least flying hours of all the people there for example. I just thought that I wanted it more and was determined to show that. Our bunch on FSP was a cool bunch of people who wanted to help each other more than compete, so try to get that attitude happening if you can, as you can all practise and share information together.

Also I would say that you donít sound super confident in what you are doing and why you are doing it. If you found the aptitude testing and the break stressful I would be worried. It isnít necessarily easy but what is there to worry about? You canít affect it while you are sitting waiting in the room. Better to put in 100% first time around, and then be done with it. Leave nothing to chance by preparing better than the other blokes.

Oh yeah and you can always use MS Word to check your posts before you submit them. Spell Check is your friend.

p.s. this turned out way longer than I thought it would!

17th Feb 2006, 02:15

If you are chasing some relevent flying experience, Aerotec in Toowoomba specialises somewhat in preparing people for Tamworth. They have a CT4-E which is good fun to fly, and similar to the aircraft you will use (although aeros with the air-conditioning on is rather civilised).

17th Feb 2006, 02:32
The instructors are reasonably short

Oh I dunno, that blonde dude in the corner office wasn't very short! :O :O

Spell Check is your friend

Yes, however ...

"Aye heave aye spiel checquer own may computer."

Chuck that into Word and it won't complain a bit. Eyes open, brain on.

Congrats to you, flighthappens, perhaps I'll see you around at Tamworth some day.

17th Feb 2006, 05:09
JoJo636 - I was a "blunt", ie non-aircrew, for 30-odd years in the RAAF, then discovered the [un]civil industrial world, and in all that time I've come to realise that being able to accept criticism, good or bad, and being able to determine future action accordingly is one of the strongest suits you'll need in the hand of cards that fate will deal you.
You appear to have made a good start, and as the other respondents have done, I wish you well in your chosen career, in which, unfortunately, you will need a good grasp of "English as she is spoke" to make the impression that will elevate you above the [allied] others.
Nunc est bibendum!

Hugh Gorgen
18th Feb 2006, 10:36

As a recent flying instructor at BFTS , and having sat on a few pilot selection boards I offer the following advice;

Understand the career you are looking at undertaking. You will probably be involved in military operations. How do you feel about this ? You may drop bombs in anger, deliver special forces behind enemy lines etc.

Know the RAAF structure, its aircraft, squadrons and bases. Know the names of the RAAF Commanders.

Know the role of a pilot in the RAAF. (More paperwork (blunt stuff) than flying these days)). What "secondary duties" or other roles does a pilot have in the squadron?

What do you want to fly? Why? What if that doesn't happen? What if you fail pilots course?

Study current affairs and know changes occuring in defence. (alot happening at the moment!!)

But most importantly, be HONEST. INTEGRITY is essential and a requirement. If you don't know, say "I don't know".

Flight Screening in Tamworth;

Work hard and give 100%. A keen, eager attitude shines.
Listen to directives and perform tasks as requested. Pilot candidates must be adaptable to the RAAF way of flying.
Show leadership yet humility.
Enjoy! PM John Howard is paying.

Hope this helps. Good luck !

18th Feb 2006, 19:50
Having sat on a board or two and having given Bloggs a bit of lip from the back seat occasionally, I can totally agree with Hugh (Above).

21st Feb 2006, 06:11
Hey does anyone know if the ADF Pilot Selection Agency has commenced any 2 week courses for 2006.

I have noticed that on the website they have not as yet updated the flight screening wall chart?

21st Feb 2006, 15:05
For jojo636...., Enjoy.... For all other readers - Health Warning read at your own peril.....
The item below may not be of much importance to you at this time..., felt that you could benefit from the information, if only to be aware of what is happening with the RAAF's current support issues and its resource/logistics planning visions for the future. Its a bit dry to say the least, but gives you a 'feel' for what is in the pipeline from the logistics and resource perspective. Always good to read up on the latest 'happenings' and be aware of where the defence money is being spent when attending interviews etc....! By the way...., this was released on the wires today 21 Feb 06.
It has been reported that THE Defence Department will upgrade its troubled human resources systems to run the latest version of PeopleSoft software in a project expected to cost more than $100 million.
The controversial upgrade of PMKeyS (personnel management key solution) has been approved by Cabinet.
Oracle has indicated it will continue supporting the PeopleSoft platform for five years, but Defence is understood to have chosen to upgrade rather than replace its existing systems.
The PMKeyS upgrade is one of three core defence projects worth a reported $335 million over the next several years, covering its human resources, accounting and supply chain platforms.
Defence technology contractors had been concerned that any delays in deciding the future of the PMKeyS systems could have delayed plans for full integration of the three systems.
Defence had already announced it would proceed with a Mincom upgrade of its standard defence supply system and would upgrade its Roman financial software through SAP.
The integration of the three core platforms is expected to create what Defence chief information officer Air Vice-Marshall John Monaghan is calling a virtual enterprise resource planning system.
Plans for the upgrade may be pushed back following the change of minister resulting from Rob Hills retirement announcement.
The final draft of a project to upgrade the SAP-based Romans financial management systems is awaiting approval from newly appointed Defence Minister Brendan Nelson.
Despite continuing problems with PMKeyS, the Defence Department said there would be "no complication" with the upgrade.
The original PMKeyS project ran two years late and almost $40 million over budget, and has been the subject of damning Australian National Audit Office reports.
It was also found to have incurred indirect costs of more than $90 million.
The National Audit Office found the system had struggled to account for more than $700 million worth of personnel leave. "Defence is upgrading the PeopleSoft product currently in use to version 8.9," a department spokesman said. "Oracle advises that it will be able to support the product past the end of the decade."
The spokesman said there were "no delay implications" for the departments plans to integrate its human resources, supply chain and accounting systems.
The redevelopment of the systems, to create a virtual enterprise resource planning system, is seen as the most immediate challenge facing Air Vice-Marshall Monaghan in pulling Defences foundering systems together. :ok:

21st Feb 2006, 21:52
Hi again Joe,

I had the same problem when I joined, in that you can't be good at everything and for me that meant that English was by far my worst subject at school. But I wanted to be a pilot so I had to pass that test so here's what I did.

I thought, what are they going to ask me to do?

Write an essay, probably by giving me a topic and a limited period of time.

Now what's the subject going to be?

I picked three potential topics:
Defence of Northern Aust
Characteristics of a good leader
Why did I want to be a pilot

I then took my time and wrote out, with help, how I would answer those questions. I then practiced and practiced until I could do it perfectly.

Then I did the test, and low and behold I got characteristics of a good leader and I aced it!

It was the best of all my assessment scores, I always have a smile on my face when I think, if only they knewÖ. Mind you they found out later when I had to do the bloody writing skills cse :ugh:

Hope this helps and if this is what you want to do, then it will require all of your commitment.

P.s I would like to say that I did this a while ago (1987) so please don't think that you will be asked to write about one of these topics specifically.

3rd Mar 2006, 06:08
Just had Pschology and Defence Interview today for ADF Pilot. I'm 33 and they keep telling me I've got next to no chance of being picked up by RAAF (My first preference) because of my age.

I say never tell me the odds!!

They do however recommend me for SSO Army Pilot.

Does anyone know if there is still any glimmer of hope for me to be picked up by RAAF on flight screening despite my age (some what discrimination). I realise I may not be suitable for FJs but would be more than happy to fly multi-engine props.

Should I continue to stick with my first pref. of RAAF or forget it completely?


Arm out the window
3rd Mar 2006, 06:27
Go for it, I reckon, otherwise you'll never know.
If you stick to your guns, it shows determination, as long as you're not negative about the other options.
If I had to interview someone who was saying 'Well, I'm going to do my damndest to be a RAAF pilot, but if for some reason that can't happen, I'd still really like to fly military aircraft, so give me a shot', I'd think, fair enough and good luck.
Of course there may well be reasons why they can't, or don't want to take various people in different circumstances, but if you're up front, positive and motivated, I don't think you can go wrong.
Both services have their own cultures, to coin a buzzword, but in the end you're flying good machines (mostly) and getting good training.

Runaway Gun
3rd Mar 2006, 10:28
Give it a go. At 33 years old you are likely to more more stable, and less worried about pimples, cars and girls. A bit of maturity (I'm assuming here) never hurts.

Chronic Snoozer
3rd Mar 2006, 10:52
How many hours have you got already?

Neptunus Rex
3rd Mar 2006, 11:01

You would appear to have discriminated against yourself, by not applying up to 15 years ago. Perhaps there were good reasons for that but you will have to give a convincing explanation at any interview. Having said that, ask any RAAF QFI what is the most important quality he looks for in a student and you will get the answer "Motivation!" If you can show you possess that, you will have a fighting chance.

Good luck,

Neppie :cool:

4th Mar 2006, 00:49
Thanks for your responses guys..Yep will keep aiming for the top!!

Chronic.....Have about 70 hours single engine under belt. Last year I did about 6 rides in a CT4E and that rocked!!

Neptunus...Yeah I actually applied twice straight out of school, then twice whilst undertaking science degree but scores no good.

Then pursued a career in Police Service.

Thought I try again at 29 years but at that stage age restrictions applied and application rejected.

Tried again last year, and got recommended for flight screening but didnt get the call up.

Had to resit tests again and here I am today......

4th Mar 2006, 03:25

From experience, some of the decisions/ recommendations coming out of the new-look rercruiting system, ie mostly civilian are laughable, particularly with regard to what they recommend people go and do. I would push ahead with the RAAF option if that's what you want- Does it say in black and white that 33 is to old???? if not, they're doing what recruiters do best, ie trying to fill slots in other areas.
There's always the navy.......:hmm:

Good luck, pm me if you need any help


15th Mar 2006, 22:47
I know a guy who just got called up at 30 years of age.

Starting on next IOT course.

I think you need to get a waiver if you are aged over 27?

23rd Mar 2006, 23:23
I am applying to be a pilot in the ADF with a preference for the RAAF. At the moment I have completed the inital testing and interviews and my file is being sent to the pilot selection agency, I am hopeful I will gain a spot at Flight screening this year.

I was informed that my test scores are competitive and was wondering if there are any ADF pilots here that could answer a few question in regards to the final stages of the application and life as a RAAF officer and Pilot.

Specifically, I have done 8 hrs in a C152 and would like to know the areas I should concentrate on before flight screening in order to give myself the best chance. Would it be beneficial to get some time in a tail dragger or do some Aerobatic's to get a feel for being inverted?

Also, apart from flying what are the other duties of an officer in the RAAF?

Many thanks:)

24th Mar 2006, 01:39
Hi mate,
There are plenty of posts here on Pprune about this exact sort of thing. I recommend you try to find them using the Search feature.

If you have no luck, or it doesn't answer your questions, feel free to repost and we will do our best to answer your questions ourselves.


24th Mar 2006, 02:21
Thanks, but I tried a search before I posted under RAAF and ADF and found nothing of use.


24th Mar 2006, 03:21
IIRC there was a thread all about this, that was started in 2002 and always seemed to be re-surfacing every so often. The thread was started by Hornetboy. Ive tried searching for said thread to post here but i cant find it, perhaps some of the older threads got ditched when the forums were re-vamped.

If u ask nicely, one of the mods may be able to check the archives, if such things exist here, for the thread. I think it might have had a title like "RAAF aptitude testing" Fairly sure it was started by Hornetboy and full of great feedback from guys who had BTDTBTT.

24th Mar 2006, 09:48
I didn't do flight screening when I went through the selection process, so I can't comment specifically on what they are looking for. If I had the cash, I'd probably go for an aerobatics flight - just for fun, even if it doesn't prove to be of any use. Don't spend all of your hard earned cash on civilian hours though - they are of very limited benefit. I've got good friends who had thousands of GA hours before joining the RAAF, and have gone onto fly hornets, and also guys with next to no airborne experience who also now fly fighters. In general, GA hours may help with the initial training at BFTS, but as you move through the more advanced training on the PC9, it will be of no benefit. I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about glider time though - you can't help but 'attitude fly' in a glider.
What are the other duties of a junior pilot in the RAAF - well, if the bograts in my flight are any example, you spend your time playing uckers, talking about the attrocities committed on the weekend, and generally being a universal sh*tfight. Ahhhh those were the days!!!!!
There are many jobs which you will be involved in as a junior dude in a flying squadron. Social Club Officer, Navigation Officer (ensures we have up to date maps, navigation loads for the mission planning system, charts, etc), Times Officer (collates all flying hours and cross checks with the aircraft maintenance releases etc)...........the list goes on.
All in all, it is definitely the best job in the world. No matter how much Microsoft Outlook attempts to wreck your day, you can still strap a jet on and forget about everything apart from flying. It's always sunny above the clouds, and you will work with some of the finest human beings God has ever produced.

PLE Always
25th Mar 2006, 20:40
...It's always sunny above the clouds, and you will work with some of the finest human beings God has ever produced.

Put a smile on my face you did hudlover ;)

Gíday Andrew,

Iím sure there are plenty of great tips for Flight Screening but I subscribe to the KISS school of thought. Sure do a few aeros trips just to get used to the sensations, which leads to my first tip, relax and listen. Concentrate on what youíre being told, ask questions, understand whatís expected of you. Communication is King and donít be afraid to ask a dumb question (Youíll get away with one every now and then). The other one is Honesty. If you cock up, fess up. If you didnít like the way something played out, recognise it (as best you can), understand where improvements can be made and verbalise all these thoughts. What the company wants to see is someone who is self-critiquing and in a way independent on the path to self-improvement.

As far as the Secondary Duties side of the house goes, Look-At-My-Gorgeous-Hud covered a bunch of good ones. In my experience there are lots of opportunity to contribute to the rewriting of dated or incorrect procedures, tactics, instructions etc. The adults at the SQN are usually flat-out sorting out stuff that you donít want to know about. So they really appreciate guys doing the leg work, taking the initiative and making things better for everyone. Apart from helping everybody else out, doing the right thing usually gets you reported well annual appraisals, which in turn help with postings, win win.

As far as this goes:

Ö., and you will work with some of the finest human beings God has ever produced.

I really do genuinely agree, but you do on rare occasion get the opposite. It is a very real possibility as a Captain or Junior Officer for that matter that you will get involved in disciplinary matters. I wonít expand on the indiscretions Iíve come across in an open forum, as I donít want it to be misconstrued as rife, itís not. But you will be expected by the Execs to recognise and appropriately respond to departures from the rules, norms etc. Donít ever walk away from a problem or itíll become someone elseís and may come back to bight you too. Iíve had to tidy up someone elseís mess and itís given me grey hairs. :*

I expect at your stage youíre rightly focussed on a fast jet career, but if you have any multi crew subsonic questions feel free to PM me. Otherwise LOVE-MY-GOTTA-GET-MY-HANDS-ON-MY-HUD is your man. :E

Itís an awesome time to be joining the RAAF, lots going on now with deployments etc and the future is very bright.


Speech of the day :)

'AUSTRALIANS AT WAR' Address, Australia House, London by the PM.

http://www.pm.gov.au/news/speeches/speech565.html (http://www.pm.gov.au/news/speeches/speech565.html)

Given prior to opening the Australian War Memorial London.

http://www.awmlondon.gov.au/flash.html (http://www.awmlondon.gov.au/flash.html)

Hugh Gorgen
26th Mar 2006, 21:51
Hey Joker,

I was in TW for a couple of years and spent time assessing the Flight Screening candidates.
The basic purpose of the Flight Screening process is assess your potential ability to fly (IAW military protocol and processes) and to assess your potential as an officer. The flying on the CT4 and CAP10 is looking to see that you can follow instruction, learn from mistakes and develop capability over a number of sorties. The hot tip here is to listen to the QFI and accurately apply what you are asked to do, study hard at night to ensure you know all relevant attitudes, powers, techniques and generally show confidence yet humility.
The board interview will assess your leadership potential and motivation. Know the RAAF leaders, the SQNs, a/c types etc. What a/c do you want to fly and why. Read the paper and know current affairs relating to the RAAF (C17, Iraq deployment, etc). Have a think about why you want to join, how will you feel if sent on operations, time away from home on often tough conditions, your apporoach to command etc. The board assessment again is looking for guys/girls that have potential, intelligence, a motivated attitude, an understanding of your chosen career and generally will fit in. The common yardstick asked by the board is " Can I sit next to this person for 10 hours, and trust his/her abilities in war".
To answer your specific questions, I would suggest that an aerobatic flight may be of some slight advantage, at least to give you a feel for the environment. However, if money is tight, dont worry about it. The cousre is aimed at people with minimal to no experience.
As for secondary duties, there are numerous as mentioned. To add to the list, also include Crew Resource Management facilitator, Aviation Risk Management facilitator (the RAAF had recently become very AVRM aware), Information Systems co-ordinator (you look after the sqns database etc), publications officer, programmer (programs the sim and flying), Public relations contact etc. The list goes on forever. Be aware that flying is only a part of your role. You play a part in running the squadron.

Bottom line - show humility, motivation, a willingness to learn from staff and from mistakes, a hard working attitude, be prepared. Most importantly, be yourself. We look very closely for honesty and integrity.

Hope this helps and good luck.

27th Mar 2006, 21:28
Thanks luvmuhud, PLE and Hugh. You have been very helpful.

I think I will approach Flight screening and OSB the same as the other areas of the process, give it my best shot, make sure I put everything into it and trust if I am good enough I will get through but if not at least I gave it all I had.

As I understand the chances of making it to Fast Jets are about 10% for Pilots graduating from 2FTS I have set my sights on Multi fixed wing aircraft such as P3's or perhaps some of the new aircraft like the Wedgetail AEWAC's or C-17's. However if I am lucky enough to be offered FJ's then I would jump at the chance. I love flying and would be happy to be flying anything for the RAAF.

One more thing. As I am 26 if it doesn't happen for me this year will my chances be very slim once I am 27. I have heard of the Army and Navy accepting people over 30 but I don't know about the RAAF?


27th Mar 2006, 22:14
Joker I know a guy who is starting OTS in 2 weeks time aged 30 so it is possible.

Arm out the window
27th Mar 2006, 23:31
Also, if you don't get your first choice (RAAF), the training you get in the other services is nothing to be scoffed at either - different emphasis for the roles, of course, but back in the days when helicopters were run by the RAAF they were a well sought-after posting out of 2FTS, so don't discount those options.
A decent number of individuals (you know who you are!!) have done the two or even three service shuffle for one reason or another - can keep life interesting to do so, as well.

28th Mar 2006, 07:23
I'd like to reinforce the 'humble confidence' that Hugh Gorgen mentioned. I know as an instructor, I go the extra mile every time for students who have this incredibly valuable combination of personality traits.
Also, if you have any desire to fly fast jets (JSF, Hornet, F-111), don't think about anything else for the next 5 years. Live eat and breathe it, and picture yourself in the seat. If you aren't focusing on/aiming for fast jets, it's very unlikely that you'll get the opportunity to go there. Every flying job in the military is fantastic, and you will experience things you would never have dreamed of before, but don't kid yourself that you will get a shot at fast jets without aiming for it. Remember, it's either you or the next guy - so it may as well be you!!!

28th Mar 2006, 08:17
IIRC there was a thread all about this, that was started in 2002 and always seemed to be re-surfacing every so often. The thread was started by Hornetboy. Ive tried searching for said thread to post here but i cant find it, perhaps some of the older threads got ditched when the forums were re-vamped.
If u ask nicely, one of the mods may be able to check the archives, if such things exist here, for the thread. I think it might have had a title like "RAAF aptitude testing" Fairly sure it was started by Hornetboy and full of great feedback from guys who had BTDTBTT.

Here's the thread started by Hornetboy back in January 2002 called "RAAF Aptitude Test Results".
Lots of great advice for anyone aspiring to join the OZ military as a pilot, not just the RAAF.


Hugh Gorgen
28th Mar 2006, 09:19

If you have any questions please feel free to PM me. More than happy to help.

The Army have employed pilots up to the age of 40. The RAAF and RAN also will employ candiates beyond 27 although they will look at what you have done during your years since High School. (dont mention your time selling hemp products in Byron Bay).

13th Apr 2006, 01:41
Hey guys,

Just wanted to share my excitement. Just got the call from PSA Tamworth inviting me to attend flight screening in May 2006.

Wow, there is hope for the older (wiser) generation!!!:)

Arm out the window
13th Apr 2006, 01:53
Congratulations, mate, and good luck.

Chronic Snoozer
13th Apr 2006, 06:32
Good luck, not too many hours under your belt, thats good.

Dr. Porkchop
16th Apr 2006, 07:27
I am about to sit aptitude testing for ADF pilot training. I understand the aptitude testing has changed somewhat in the last few years. If anyone who has done the testing recently could give me some info, it would be much appreciated. I am trying to find out a bit more on the sequence of testing and what level of mathematics knowledge is required.


Dr. Porkchop. :E

16th Apr 2006, 09:19
I'm sure things have changed in the last twelve years but knowing your 3.5 times tables is a useful thing :)

17th Apr 2006, 03:02
When I did it a few months ago I thought it was pretty simplie. 100 questions, with 40 minutes time limit. It had various number patterns, as well as symbol patterns. Quite a few word problems, eg. Printing is to book as computer is to: A;B;C;D

18th Apr 2006, 11:24

I'm soon to complete the ADF flight screening program in Tamworth for possible selection for the Australian Army Aviaiton Unit. Just seeking some advice on preparation for the flying program as well as the Officer Selection Board.

Any advice greatly welcomed.

PLE Always
18th Apr 2006, 23:54
G'day All Torque,

You just missed a similar thread last month.


Bzulu posted a link to the mother of all threads that started in 2002 called "RAAF Aptitude Test Results" . I haven't read it all, but looks like there's lots of good gouge in there.


Good luck and enjoy..


19th Apr 2006, 02:12
Hi All Torque

What date does your course commence?

19th Apr 2006, 03:31
The aircrew testing involves spacial awareness and lots of mental maths. You need to be good to get through and you need to be very good to be competitive. There are some books out there that can help but most of it you cant study for.

When I did the testing there were 7 pilot applicants and only 2 passed the test.

Good luck:)

19th Apr 2006, 10:00
Hi Doc

I pulled this info from elsewhere. I did this one day course and got thru pretty well . The maths was very good - no surprises on the test . Other stuff also right on the mark. PM me if you wish, and I can elaborate further.



Hello All,

We have been providing training to assist people applying for direct entry and also cadet pilot slots at Qantas Airways.
Specifically we have been providing training to assist people pass the psychometric testing component of selection. To date our program has been extremely successful, some of our achievements to date include

• 80 % of direct entry pilots selected by Qantas Mainline during 2005 attended our course
• 70% of Qantas cadets selected at the start of 2005 attended our course (we had only been operating for 5 months before this)
• Substantial numbers of Jetstar and Qantaslink hired in 2005 attended our course

Our performance data is strong and it is something we are proud of – however we are continuously refining our course. The successful Qantas Cadet pilots will be announced during the next week or so – at least 70% and as many as 85% of them will be clients of ours.

The basis of the program is to get clients practicing numerous sample questions. We know exactly what the test questions are, and make our course questions resemble them very closely. We also teach systematic techniques to approach these types of problems, and instruct people on exam techniques as well as many time saving techniques. We know the best systematic methods to solve these types of problems, and your speed as well as accuracy is vastly improved. That is why our clients go to the top of the Qantas hold file – the will dislodge others as their test score is so much higher.
Over the past six weeks we have released two brand new courses. The courses are:

• Aircrew Aptitude Tests ( for RAAF , RAN, ARMY)
• JOES day course

Both of these programs have been the result of an enormous amount of work. These programs are only run in Melbourne on an individual (one on one) basis –the courses are solely for ADF applicants.
We anticipate that our clients applying for the ADF will have the same level of success that our clients applying to Qantas have. We believe our two ADF courses mirror very closely the actual test you will sit on the day. You will see numerous examples of all questions, and shown shortcuts as well as the best techniques for approaching all problems.
Our Aircrew Aptitude Test Course, like the real ADF test contains four components ie:

• Gauge Reading
• Aircraft Maneuvers
• Aircraft Orientation
• Maths(raw data and applied)

We have spent many hours getting this program right, and we believe that we have achieved that. Many ADF candidates fail the gauge reading component. Our “gauge “template is around 95% in exactness to what you will see in the actual test. Once you have a couple of practice runs with us you will be scoring above 40 out of 54 when you sit the actual test (a very strong pass).
With regard to the maths component you will be practicing in our course many times over the exact style, and design of question that you will see in the actual test. It also stands to reason with Aircraft maneuvers, and Aircraft orientation that if you practice this type of question 200 times, and are shown the best methods – that on test day your score will be much higher.
All of our clients who have completed our new course have passed their aircrew aptitude tests. More significantly they all achieved at least a “band two “pass – which is a very strong pass. It is our view that if you have the motivation and are prepared to work hard that our company and our program will get you through the Aircrew Aptitude Test.
Lastly we have also developed a program to assist applicants obtain a high score in the JOES test. As you know ALL applicants to the ADF have to sit the JOES test. The score you obtain in this test will determine whether you can proceed to further specialist testing, such as Aircrew.

So if you intend applying to ADFA, or Duntroon, or wish to join the Navy as a Seaman Officer this course is an important one for you. We have developed a program that will greatly boost your score at JOE’s day; this program is full one day individual course which again is run in Melbourne.

The JOES day is a broad spectrum type of IQ test and contains ten distinctly different types of questions. The questions can be broadly separated into verbal, numerical, and diagrammatic, but there are up to four distinctly different styles of questions in these three main categories. Some of these types of questions (letter codes, Greek alphabet codes) are quiet unusual and it is highly unlikely that you will be able to find any example questions.

However in our one day JOE’s course we have a comprehensive database of around 50 example questions in each of the ten categories. All candidates who have completed our course recently have reported getting over 85 questions done (out of 100) when they sat their actual JOES test. Our course will get you a much higher score as we will make sure you thoroughly understand the logic of question type (including all variations), before we do fifty practice questions.

So that is almost enough from me for now. Please feel free to email any questions or post them below. Enquiries regarding bookings and pricing can be obtained by emailing us. You are also more than welcome to call us with any questions you have - don't be shy!
Also if you are interested in our program and would like to be kept on a mailing list, so you can be kept informed about developments please email us.
Best Regards

[email protected]
Ph: 0427 053 715
www.****************** (http://www.******************/)

19th Apr 2006, 20:03
If you guys can't find an (almost identically named) forum on this subject without creating an identical thread, what chance have you of finding a dirt Lz/Dz south of Mataranka in the night????

19th Apr 2006, 21:47
Wanted to quickly add top notch for JOES test also, I reckon around 40 to 50 questions I saw on course were in the real test.

20th Apr 2006, 08:51
Thanks guys...shall give it my best!!!

21st Apr 2006, 01:09
Well Done mate, I am hoping to get a shot this year. I am 26 and have been worried about age. Best of luck.

Dr. Porkchop
23rd Apr 2006, 11:31
Merv thanks for your reply mate, I contacted PATS and will seriously consider.

Dr. Porkchop

24th Apr 2006, 08:33
Dr Porkchop,

Just out of curiosity, how much was the PATS testing?

24th Apr 2006, 08:36
Thanks Joker.

I will update this thread after my Board Interview at Tamworth.

24th Apr 2006, 11:35
and what is your cut to place the Ad on Pprune?

Dr. Porkchop
24th Apr 2006, 13:54
Firstly, DTN08 I was quoted $1900 for a two day 'course.' To LJR, I didn't put the add on the site and know nothing more about it!

14th Jun 2006, 02:18
Digging this thread up again as it seems to have slipped away...
Thought I'd update on my application after waiting the 3 months - had my JOES day, pilot specialization tests and assessment day last month. It was definately an interesting experience and so far recruiting seems quite positive about my chances. Was interesting being a latter aged applicant (I'm 27 now) as the defence interviewer was an Army pilot who couldn't have been 12 months older than I was. And the Psych was the same guy who interviewed me 10 years ago when I first applied! Thankfully he had no hesitation in recommending me through.
Unfortunately I have to get a few medical letters before they send my application off to Tamworth. I need an opthomologist report (I'm slightly shortsighted) and a report from my orthopedic surgeon for a bankhart repair on my right shoulder about 5 years ago. I'm hoping he stands up for the quality of his work :)
For those that have been through the system or are there currently, how many opportunities are there to visit wives/husbands while at IOT at Point Cook? Also how long does it take before you're 'brought back together'? (i.e. after Combat Survival Training?)

14th Jun 2006, 23:09
Hi Theedmancometh,

RAAF upper age limit is 43, but they have a stated preferrence for 27.5 years old.


So far recruiting have said that my age may have an impact on whether the RAAF accept me, but there are no guarantees either way (obviously!) so it comes down to getting the RAAF to understand why they need me instead of some 17y.o. straight out of school. :E

They've also said that the RAN and the Army won't see my age as a deterrant to entry to those services.

And it was mentioned earlier in this thread IIRC that someone has started IOT at age 30, so it's not impossible. :ok:


15th Jun 2006, 01:45

Are you an australian citizen or permanant resident?

if your not it is my understanding that if you can only transfer into a similar position and not to re-train as a pilot. You would be put into competition with everyone else.

Also it would mean a 2 year minimum wait which would then make you even older, perhaps the NZAF would be a better option for you. Then once trained you may be able to transfer across.


26th Jul 2006, 09:19
Well I got the call up for Flight screening and I'm off to Tamworth in a few weeks, Very exicted:), I believe the dream has a chance.

Thanks for the info, its been lots of help.


26th Jul 2006, 11:02

How did you end up going on FSP? Good result I hope? If not, don't give up, sometimes takes more than one bite of the apple.

27th Jul 2006, 00:15
Congratulations Joker89.

Can I ask how long it took Tamworth to get back to you after your file was sent over? Mine went over about 3 weeks ago and I'm still waiting to see where it sits relative to everyone else.

Please let us know how it goes over there.


27th Jul 2006, 01:01
I received a letter three weeks ago saying they had received my file, 18 days later I got a call inviting me to a course. Feel very fortunate as I know some people have their file up there along time before they get a call. However I was in the system for almost a year before my file went up there so I have played the waiting game too.

Captain Sand Dune
27th Jul 2006, 05:57
Learn to read a flying schedule, and show up for briefing 45 minutes before ramp out!!:mad:

29th Jul 2006, 08:27
Congratulations. I got my call while I was overseas on other ADF business and had to ask PSA if I could do it later in the year. They were very understanding (thank god).

4th Aug 2006, 07:40
Hi all,

I would like to be made aware of the general opinions and experiences concerning PATS throughout pprune as this has been a very valuable source of accurate and reliable information that I've found to be invaluable.

PATS being the Pilot Aptitude Training Systems, a company which prepares ADF Aircrew applicants for assesment day, in particular the various aircrew specific tests.

Has anyone actually attended the program? Was it what you expected? Was the price justified? How accurate was the preparation to actual pilot testing you underwent. Did it give you the necessary edge to make it through to FSP.

Is it a good idea?


4th Aug 2006, 08:25
Don't know what they teach you really. I heard a current RAAF pilot saying that the best money he spent was $20 at the video game arcade before the co-ordination test.

7th Sep 2006, 09:29
G'day Guys,

My name is William Foot and I am in my last year of high school. Im interested in becoming a raaf pilot and I was wondering if anyone had any experiences or advice as to entrance streams/previous flight experience/ anything else relevant? I was thinking of going through ADFA but I've missed the application date (although apparently I can still apply). If I can't apply to ADFA I would still be willing to try though the DEO scheme. I do not currently have any flight experience and was wondering if this would be a hinderance for my possiblities for selection? I've read that it is not a problem but if anyone has any knowledge to the contrary I would love to hear it. Lastly if anyone knows of any good websites regarding raaf pilots it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers,


8th Sep 2006, 04:57

That should keep you busy for a while ... :ok:

8th Sep 2006, 05:59
Hello Mate

I have just finished flight screening. I lived for 26 years thinking that it was next to impossible to get a start but I tried and it is possible. Nothing can prepare you for the final stages but working on mental maths and showing you have the desire to fly helps. Leadership potential is a major factor too.

On my FSP course there was everyone from 20 yr old Aero Eng students to F111 Nav's to an old banker like me. You probably won't guess who scored highest.

Medical is a big barrier for most. At your age it will be easier to try for ADFA than DEO.


8th Sep 2006, 06:27
Can I guess you old fart? Being humble never really suited you ;)

I echo most of Jokers thoughts, I used to hate hearing people say there's nothing you can do to prepare for the final stages... but guess what? It's true! You can prepare for the whole experience by knowing as much as possible about everything military and military aviation specifically. But in the end, when the pressure is on, you are who you are.

Start buying every aviation and military mag available.Start spending a lot of time on the defence home page learning where everyone in the ADF is at the moment, what their role is and how they do it. Start spending to much time on pprune. Hell, even subject yourself to reading Dale Brown books. Sometimes that won’t be enough, or just enough as might be the case for someone I know.

Best advice, get down to DFR ASAP and get into the selection process for ADFA.
Unless you are an aviation god who can do inverted circuits in a glider then DEO probably isn’t for you.

Ok, that last bit was a bit of an in joke, but if you went DEO, you would most probably get hammered on maturity, motivation to fly (seeing as you have no time) and leadership potential as you just don’t have the life skills to call on that others in the course would.

On the other hand, if you went ADFA the OSB knows that you won’t be showing all those skills mentioned above. They will be looking for the POTENTAIL to develop those skills via 3-4 yrs in a military environment. Besides, what do you have to lose doing the ADFA selection this year?

Signing off, and back to waiting.

8th Sep 2006, 06:56
As reacher mentioned, an ability to wait is crucial to the recuiting process. I never knew the meaing of the word till I applied.:ugh:

8th Sep 2006, 06:58
Oh and to break the suspense, it was Mr Joker who topped the course and with style as well. Sorry, but someone had to.

9th Sep 2006, 02:59
Thank you all for your replys.

My plan is to go to ADFA but I think I have missed the application date. The website says all applications must be in by the end of August but I sent an email DFR and they said applications for next year are accepted up until UNSW applications close. If anyone has anyfurther info regarding this that would be very helpful. If I have missed it I thought I may as well apply for DEO and see how far I go, otherwise I will just wait until the next application round. Thanks again for all the replies, keep 'em coming


Roger Dog
9th Sep 2006, 10:02
Dude, you missed the date? Motivation is everything.

15th Sep 2006, 20:08
Kick ADFA dreams into touch and go direct. You will be on front line flying your Hornet, B737, P3 etc, BEFORE your ADFA mates finish their degree in underwater basket weaving. Also you will not have the PRIMADONNA stamp on your forehead for the early part of your career.

btw Good luck with whatever you do..

23rd Sep 2006, 23:55
William, check this site out: www.stealthtraining.com.au (http://www.stealthtraining.com.au)
Not sure if it is what you need but its a start.

24th Sep 2006, 01:25
As a new immigrant is intereseting to see ADF pilot careers being advertised, I even saw one in the cinema the other day. Does this mean that fewer people are applying, or fewer 'quality' people applying? I guess the real question at the back of my mind is will selection be 'easier' due to this big recruiting push? Common sense says NO! However I live in hope.

19th Jan 2007, 10:21
Cumon guys enuf RAF..lets get the RAAF(yes double"A") convo hapening.Any one thats got something to share about past/current expiriences with RAAF...is a Regret or The best decision you could possibly have made.:ok:

I see that CP_Adi already tried to get an answer by starting his own RAAF thread.



Hey guys n gals im looking for some advice regarding educational requirements for the RAAF Pilot selection.Ive completed year 12 with a C average all up without Maths but Im soon to start a short course which is equvalent and recognised by RAAF.How would this look and appeal to them.and how am I compared to others applying.The educational part is the only criteria im worried about.:ok:

THANKS :) :) :)


and got a useful piece of advice to look at the relevant website.

Looking at the question though without Maths but Im soon to start a short course this is preceived as qualification by drip-feed and often taken as an indication of a capacity to learn problem. How would this look? Not good. 'and appeal to them' Not a lot unless there were positive special circumstances such as no maths teacher available.

24th Jan 2007, 04:36
I am starting the recruitment process for the RAAF, but one thing concerns me....
1. I applied for the RAF a few years ago when I lived in the UK. When I got to Cranwell, I passed eveything except my physical...I was told I could not go any further as I am allergic to peanuts!!????? They knew this weeks before but had obviously not read my medical questionnaire. I was devastated and especially as I have not had an attack since I was 2yrs old I found it all unnecessary...and have never really got over it.
Anyway, i am Australian and have come back and am going to try the RAAF. I am just wondering if anyone knows if i am going to hit a brick wall again. It just seems so unfair because I know the foods to stay away from and although I carry an epipen, i have never had to use it (I am 31). Just wondering if anyone has any inside info, or if anyone has been in this position?
I just don't want to go through the whole thing again to have my heartbroken all over again...I have considered not mentioning it as doesn;t always work in your favour to be honest, especially for a silly reason as that? People must have all sorts of allergies and my friends in the RAF say they know a couple of people with this allergy and as long as it's 'discovered' after joining it seems to be ok???
Am just wondering if anyone knows if the RAAF has different regulations??
Thank you

24th Jan 2007, 05:21
Even if you lie and get in, the fact that it is on record with the RAF means that if they do discover it, you are open to a charge of "fraudulent enlistment", with a possible add-on of "providing false information under oath"... remember the part "I swear (or affirm) this information is true and complete to the best of my knowledge"?

I would expect that if they learn that you had been turned down by the RAF that they will want documentation on what you tell them for the reason, and will check with the RAF to confirm the details if you admit it was a medical rejection.

In this case, contact the regional recruiting headquarters and ask them outright... being fully honest. (the regional has less quota-driven reason to BS you than a local office would)

In many cases, if approached openly, a waiver may be granted for an older person such as yourself, as presumably you are more mature and safety-conscious than a low-20-something... and with such a long period without incident to show your responsibility, they might just surprise you.

24th Jan 2007, 05:34
Hi GreenKnight

I know you are right and I would not have lied in the end anyhow because I couldn't do that plus I know they will find out through medical records. It's just frustrating after what I went through a few years ago.

Hopefully, as you say they may well surprise me and I hope they do!
If anyone has any info, I would love to hear from them

Pontius Navigator
24th Jan 2007, 06:08
Strange, I know someone in the RAF with a nut allergy - non-aircrew though. Were you applying for aircrew when you were rejected? Are the rules perhaps different?

What branch are you considering now?

24th Jan 2007, 07:03

I was applying for Supply Officer, Ops Officer and Admin Officer.....their reason for rejecting me on the grounds of a nut allergy was if I was deployed somewhere and something happened, the rations (ie biscuits) were made out of peanut oil and had peanuts in them as this was a source of energy???????

Well, I hope that you are right and that they have changed their policies...this was in 2003 I went to Cranwell. i would say the way things are going most people have an allergy to something nowadays and it seems unfair to rule out people with a peanut allergy.

Did your friends know they had nut allergies when they applied? and did they tell the RAF? If so, I guess things have changed and I missed out...hopefully this time will be different.

24th Jan 2007, 07:06
Oh and I am applying for the same positions now....preferably Air Dispatcher/Movements..

Lost Again..
24th Jan 2007, 07:36
I know aircrew at the moment on Hercs with Lactose/Gluten allergies who have had no problems with the RAAF medical system. They manage their own diets easily. I imagine that these allergies are more difficult to control than a nut allergy. Especially gluten, no beer!!!!!

Talk to the recruiting people. They will definitely clear this up.

24th Jan 2007, 07:51
Strange, I know someone in the RAF with a nut allergy - non-aircrew though. Were you applying for aircrew when you were rejected? Are the rules perhaps different?

Last time I checked the nut allergy bar was for all branches and trades; I understand the theory is the last thing you need on ops is someone going down with an allergic reaction and it's too much trouble to ensure rat packs/locally-sourced food are nut free.

24th Jan 2007, 07:59
Hi Lost Again..

I definately agree, those allergies are far harder to control than mine, I just stay away from anything that could contain peanuts, it's not rocket science. I have also heard that the air Force are also wanting to start getting different cultures into the Air Force which is great but it will cause a lot of inconvenience with the different religious holidays like ramadan etc and they are quite happy to cater for them! also what about vegetarians etc.

Sorry, i am just getting frustrated again and all remembering all the hurt I wen through. All I can do is ask on the JOES day and keep my fingers crossed!!!

Pontius Navigator
24th Jan 2007, 08:01
TMJ, I don't know if the alleged allergy was a declared allergy, all I know is that he transferred from the Army to the RAF in 2000 as an engineer and has already done one OOA tour in the RAF and earlier ones with the Army.

Ask and you shall receive, don't ask, don't want, don't want, don't get.

24th Jan 2007, 08:36
I'm going through the recruiting process, I did my advanced medical and I revealed i had a lactose allergy. Its a case by case basis. I had to elaborate on the matter and the doctor made a decision. It was fine by them.

The ADF is very good in this regard I believe as they thoroughly hear you out.

Best of luck with your application.

24th Jan 2007, 08:46
Thnk you D4, that gives me a bit more confidence. The RAF didn't give me any opportunity to elaborate on my case...it was just no and that's that! What position are you applying for?? Best of luck!!!

24th Jan 2007, 08:54
Have you considered a challenge test in hospital under clinical conditions? They start you off with trace of peanut then over the course of a few hours increase exposure. After 29 years, you may have lost the allergy. If you pass a challenge test and it is documented under those conditions, you are no longer allergic. My daughter had a mild reaction aged 2. Challenge test age 11 but unfortunately still reacted at the peanut butter sandwich stage. Epipen deployed, all OK.

I can understand reluctance to go down this route as it may confirm without doubt, an allergy.

24th Jan 2007, 09:10
Thank you Monty, I have definately thought of going down this route. The thing is I have never had to use my epipen but I have been caught out with a fruit cake. I took one bite and I knew straight away there was something wrong. I found out it had mixed nuts in it, but luckily I didn;t go into anaphylaxis. That was only a couple of years ago so, I do know I still have an allergy but I am just particularly aware now of what i eat and just ask if it has been cooked in peanut oil. This is only asked if it happens to be thai, chinese etc which I don't eat anyway really. The specialist has told me that a peanut allergy is different from other allergies in so far as it actually gets worst as you get older.....but as I have said, I have never had an anaphylactic shock so I just hope that they take that into consideration...

24th Jan 2007, 09:56
I was devastated and especially as I have not had an attack since I was 2yrs old I found it all unnecessary...and have never really got over it.

but I have been caught out with a fruit cake. I took one bite and I knew straight away there was something wrong. I found out it had mixed nuts in it, but luckily I didn;t go into anaphylaxis. That was only a couple of years ago so, I do know I still have an allergy but I am just particularly aware now of what i eat and just ask if it has been cooked in peanut oil.

Bit of a contradiction here then?

I have seen recent news that some foods, or food retailers, are warning that although their product is not known to contain nuts they cannot guarantee that to product is not nut contaminated.

As we go to increased factory produced foodstuffs the risk will surely increase. Do Service Rat packs contain the full 'contamination' list the same as commercial products?

24th Jan 2007, 10:43
I applied for the RAF a few years ago when I lived in the UK. When I got to Cranwell, I passed eveything except my physical...I was told I could not go any further as I am allergic to peanuts!!?????

What you failed to realise was that the Condition could have sodded up your pay arrangements.

24th Jan 2007, 11:03
What you failed to realise was that the Condition could have sodded up your pay arrangements.

Subtle .

24th Jan 2007, 11:08

What I mean by an attack is an anaphylactic shock!! I have not been hospitalised due to peanuts since I was two. In 29yrs I have been caught out once...and that wasn't an attacj, i just knew I had had something I shouldn't have, not at death's door!

I guess the rat packs could say that, but these packages are getting completely out of control. If I was as cautious as I really should be i would not be able to eat Anything!! it's all about the companies worrying they will be sued....I mean a jam doghnut says it may contain nuts, but seriously......

24th Jan 2007, 11:19
GFW, I am not a doc but I would not be surprised if they took a cautious view of evidence of recent reaction as evidence of continued allergy and high risk.

As has been suggested elsewhere - be open and honest about what is documented about you, if you see what I mean. :)

24th Jan 2007, 11:26
I will be completely honest but I am just frustrated that this is an issue at all...I would say tht someone who has asthma is at more of a risk than me and they can get into the Air force.....
Guess I will just see what they say and hope to god they say it's fine!!

24th Jan 2007, 11:27
Anyone can give me the recruitment website of RAAF or what their requirements are?


24th Jan 2007, 11:33
What is Google? Can anyone tell me how to find the answer in one tenth of a second, or less, for any mundane question?


lost in a time warp

24th Jan 2007, 11:37

24th Jan 2007, 12:15
GFW, just to close the RAF side of things, the limiting medical criteria, set out in law include:

"you suffer from asthma, or have done in the last four years"

"If you suffer severe allergic reactions that mean you need to take adrenaline injection precautions, you cannot join the RAF. You cannot join if you have a nut allergy."


The British Army is rather coy about medical standards

There are many medical conditions that are not compatible with Army service. Recruiting staff have access to this information, but generally, you should not have a medical history of any problem that interferes with a physically and mentally demanding occupation or is likely to be made worse by it.
Your application will be rejected if you fail to meet the minimum acceptable medical standard for entry.


The Royal Navy is more forthright but does not make specific mention of nuts.


Then nearer home there is this:

People with asthma are excluded from some occupations, including service in the Australian Defence Force, and asthma can be exacerbated by some occupations, making it desirable to identify currently active asthma and assess its severity in potential entrants


Charlie Luncher
24th Jan 2007, 21:17
Dude ponder this for a moment, you are travelling in my aircraft after staging through an Asian country, where we picked up the cheapest fresh rations, production standards are dubious to say the least. Whilst halfway across vast ocean/desert you have an attack that one pen will not prevent but you need additional care, who will your family sue for duty of care, when I dispatch you so we can carry on with the mission???:ugh:
Be honest and let the professionals decide referring you to the two qualities we look for in our officers above. The ratpacks now come in halaal and weird veggie flavours, I was always curious as to was there any real meat in them anyhow :yuk:
Charlie sends

24th Jan 2007, 22:09
I'm applying for Pilot and so far so good. One of my great fears was that they might unearth something medical, something i didn't know about as it is always a possibility. Hope it works out for you as I know we'd all rather be knocked back due to not trying hard enough rather than a medical condition. You can always try harder but medical conditions stick, well most of them anyway.

Try the aussie cadet forums. Here is the link to the Defence force careers section of the cadet forum.


Post something in there to see what others experienced or search through this forum as you may find something. You have to register to search the forums, took me a while to figure that one out.

The ADF careers website is www.defencejobs.gov.au though i don't think you will find an extensive account of the medical requirements as there are an endless number of medical conditions.

14th Mar 2007, 01:08
I was recently successful at my Assessment Day to join the ADF as a pilot and recommended for the PSA. I was just curious if anyone has any hints, tips or advice on what I should do or study for my FSP and OSB, and whether anyone has actually been through it all.
Any comments appreciated.

Like This - Do That
14th Mar 2007, 01:43
Ben I can't give specifics about your process, but here are some points about selection boards in general.

First of all be yourself; don't bung on an act, no matter how good you were in year 9 drama classes. They're trying to get a measure of the real you.

There will be a mixture of written work, speaking in front of an audience, team exercises, sample PFA (ie pushups, situps & beep test), interview with the board itself, and informal chitchat. You're being watched.

Don't worry too much about this process. The best advice is to relax a little (don't be lazy and goof around, I mean don't worry yourself silly and get nervous). If you aren't into current affairs (real current affairs - not tabloid 6:30pm television shows) then do some reading - SMH, Age, Australian ... The Economist ... etc.

The final tip is not to treat this as a contest between you and the other candidates. Quite to the contrary - teamwork and support is vital.

Good luck.

14th Mar 2007, 02:02
Thanks for the help. I've been studying current ops and affairs like you said.

14th Mar 2007, 04:14
Hi Ben,
I only got back from Tamworth recently and had a great time over there with a good group of guys.

To add to what Like This Do That said, be yourself and don't BS to the board - these guys are experts at detecting it. They will put you under pressure and how you react to it will be more important than providing any 'right' answer in many situations. Of course common sense prevails.

Also ask yourself if you really want to be an ADF pilot and an officer, along with what this entails (working away from home for long periods of time, getting shot at, killing people and breaking things etc.) If not then they will probably recommend flying for QANTAS. And if you're married make sure you and your better half understand what this choice of lifestyle entails.

And finally - the Navy (and Army) are pushing hard for pilots, so I'd suggest reading up on choppers if you would consider this option. Otherwise you lose 2/3 of the chances of entering the ADF as a pilot.

Formski (waiting for an offer now...)

14th Mar 2007, 05:23
In previous post on same topic i commented that as great as it might be you just cant prepare for tamworth.

you get put in a situation which demands high levels of performance at a very high rate of learning. It is not easy but when its all over it is the best 2 weeks ever.

I was fortunate to be in a group where we all got on very well. I think this helped everyone on the course. I back up the previous post, If you go into it treating everyone as competition and not a team mate then you will do worse. Thats all i can advise you of.

Enjoy, give it your best and you cant complain about the outcome. Concur about Navy/Army. Nearly everyone has RAAF as first preference. Unelss you score 3.0 or more I would seriously consider nominating RAN or Army as first preference.

14th Mar 2007, 10:46
Formski and Joker89,
Once again thanks heaps for the reply.
I've taken all the info onboard. I've been recommended for all my 3 preferences which are RAAf, Army, Navy pilots and I'm willing to accept any. Sounds like the FSP is very much a team based program. I'm looking forward to it. Formski, Good luck and I hope you get an offer and thanks again Joker89.

31st Jul 2007, 19:58
When I attended we were sent a two page debrief after the fact, and the numerical mark was on the second page of this. It could have changed since then. We were told that a 5 was a walk on water ready made officer, and anything over a 2 was a pass.

22nd Nov 2007, 18:40
To answer Flatus' question on officer promotion in the RNZAF; it might have changed and Kiwichick can probably bring it up to date, but P/o to F/o was automatic after one year, F/o to Flt Lt was by exams and time, and Flt Lt to Sqn Ldr was by attendance at the [then] RNZAF Command and Staff College. All would-be Sqn Ldrs had to go there, except doctors and padres, and I had two pilots, two navs, and a trick cyclist on mine! I believe the Staff Course is now 'purple' and has been relocated to near Wellington.

5th Dec 2007, 07:54
Hi all,

I'm going in soon to do my pilot specific aptitude testing, having passed the initial aptitude test back in '05.

I'm looking for some direction, what is involved, and what I should do to prepare to give myself the best possible chance of success.

I've searched and found a few threads, but most seem to be outdated at this point. One by Hornetboy here http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39266&highlight=raaf+aptitude&page=9 was pretty helpful, and I read through the entire thing.

Some basic history on myself: I am 24 now, I applied in '05 as Pilot first preference and Undergrad Engineer 2nd preference for the RAAF. I passed the aptitude tests, then I removed my first preference for Pilot as I didn't believe I had the academic record to get past the recruitment stage, and I didn't want to wait another 6 months to reapply as an undergrad engineer.

Long story short, things happened, my undergrad engy application was postponed for various reasons, and I found myself falling out of love with engineering and my marks started slipping. I decided to take some time off, was offered a student engineer position at a large automotive company, and thought it was the perfect opportunity to regain my enthusiasm for engineering. Unfortunately, it has had the opposite effect, and I find myself certain that I don't want to be an engineer.

As long as I can remember I have wanted to be a RAAF pilot, and the only thing that has held me back from applying is my academic record. My marks aren't fantastic, entirely from a lack of motivation and application on my part (which is evidenced by the many HD's at TAFE and uni in the courses that interested me, and the bare passes in the ones that didn't).

I grew up as a RAAF brat, my dad was an electrical engineer in the RAAF for 22 years. Most of my mates at school's parents, almost all of my parents friends are current or ex-RAAF officers. My earliest memory as a child is when I was 1 or 2 years old, in the backyard of our house on the base at Williamstown, and looking up as the Hornets flew over. I went camping with my dad and a couple of his mates (one current RAAF officer, one french army officer) about a month back, and sat around the fire drinking and listening to their stories, and I know that in 30 years time, that is where I want to be, so I decided to continue my application as a pilot. If I don't get in, I'll change my degree to Aerospace, HD every subject, and reapply.

If anyone wants to give me some information on life as a Pilot, or anything that may be beneficial to me during the process, please feel free to post or PM.

Cheers ;)

6th Dec 2007, 08:01
No Raafies around anymore?

Does anyone know the name of a flight school in or around Melbourne that has former RAAF instructors? I want to get a few hours logged to get a feel for it, and make sure this is what I really want.

10th Dec 2007, 06:03
Ritero, I am currently in a similar position to you, though 4 years your senior, still studying mech engineering part time but soon to get some flying hours under my belt before putting in my application early in the new year.

Having had to do a heap of research and not always getting consistent answers on some of my questions, my best advice to you at this point is to talk to as many people as possible, especially pilots who have just been accepted into a service. Your recruiter should be able to connect you with one such pilot and they will be able to answer most of your questions.

I too have previously done the basic aptitude testing and my first attempt at the pilot specific aptitude test. I failed the first attempt for the same reason Hornetboy failed his, ie the instrument reading. I knew I did well but unfortunately I didnt complete it fast enough and that was enough to knock me out.

Don't know if you will get many replies for your thread so your best bet is to read carefully what has been brought up in the previous posts about recruitment and aptitude, I would have to say it sounds spot on but I also would be very keen to get some fresh posts on the topic from anyone who has successfully reached the flight screening and beyond.

Might pay you to consider gliding over powered flight. This is a point that seems to keep coming back to me as forced landings and basic aeronautics and instrument reading are something that will impress where as powered flight will limit you to 20hours flight time IF you want to be assessed at a basic level duing the flight screening. Gliding hours don't have to be recorded towards your official flight time from what I have heard (please, anyone correct me if I am wrong!).

Depending on your confidence and verbal delivery in front of others, you might want to consider something like toastmasters as this is also looked upon favourably.

If you have any specific questions, I am happy to try answering them but I am affraid my knowledge is limited to what I have heard from others.

Good luck =)

11th Dec 2007, 05:10
Thanks Snoopy. Let me know how you go.

I have asked one of my dad's mates if he can put me in contact with any pilots, as he's a former nav turned mahogany bomber pilot.

I was considering gliding. I don't want to get any "training" as such on a plane, I just want to get up in the air a bit, take over the controls, learn about instruments and take off and landing etc. I am 99% sure this is what I want to do, but without ever having been behind the stick, how can I say for sure? I wouldn't get 20 hours anyway, because I am currently a uni student who lives out of home and pays his own way, so my current cash flow wouldn't allow a large amount of time in the air. As it is, it is going to take a fairly strong commitment to get me in the air at all.

My questions are the same as yours; the majority of the posts on this forum refer to RAAF recruitment 4 or more years ago, so what has changed? Is there anyone who has gone through it recently, or is currently going through it?

Quick edit: For the record, I'm not after any information on anything that you are forbidden to reveal by way of the confidentiality agreement.

13th Dec 2007, 05:20
Hey Guys,

I've been searching day and night for the last couple of weeks for guidance for my upcoming pilot specific testing for the RAAF. As far as i know the day consists of 2 x mathematic tests, a psychological test, aircraft attitude test, instrument test, coordination test and an essay. I have only recently completed JOES day and took one math test and aptitude test, now i found that fairly straight forward. Advice from anyone relating to my upcoming test would be much appreciated!



13th Dec 2007, 06:00
Be yourself, don't do stress, be confident, don't bullsh*iyt, wear clean strides, comb your hair, manage your time in exams, know what makes your future employer tick.

13th Dec 2007, 06:04
Thanks for the advice mate ... but i was kind of looking for something along the lines of the level of difficulty that these upcoming tests contain. Would anyone know if they are much harder than the ones given out on JOES day?

15th Dec 2007, 05:52
Hey Mark,

From what I've read, there are some more specific mathematics kind of tests that relate to aircraft, calculating range etc. It's beneficial to get an idea of thinking in terms of lb of fuel, nautical miles, knots etc.


You have 620lb of fuel on board and a current fuel flow of 96lb/hr. You are 96nm from your destination and travelling at 84 knots ground speed. How much fuel will you have left when you reach your destination?

17th Dec 2007, 06:09
THANX for the help guys. I done my battery of tests today in my pilot specific testing ..... got through :). The recruiter said i got ticks in all 6 of the sections required so im ok to go on to complete my defence and psyc interview as well as my medical. Any pointers for the next stage ?



18th Dec 2007, 06:34
Nice work. Hope to be joining ya soon!

For the psyc and defence interviews, take LJR's advice above.

Don't stress. Don't lie. Be yourself. Be honest.

And yes, I'm aware "don't lie" and "be honest" mean the same thing, intended to reiterate the point.

20th Dec 2007, 06:38
So guys still waiting for my assessment day to be booked, trying to stay calm. Just a few questions ...... would anyone be able to tell me the hardest part of the selection process, i don't mean to overly confident, but is the hardest part the testing side of things?

The other question is regarding the phase in which i would be placed into (basic or advanced). See i've completed 21.4 hours of dual flying the cessna 172, and i know from what i've read the cut-off from which one will be placed into the advanced phase is around 20 hours. The problem is however, that i have not flown in about 1 year and 2 months ..... So could anyone tell me if i'd be placed into the basic or advanced phase?



28th Jan 2008, 00:23
Hi all,
First off, thanks to everyone that has posted on previous threads similar to this, I found the information invaluable! Anyway, I need help with the spec test, heres what has happened so far:
I wanted to apply for RAAF pilot in yr12 for a possible appointment the following year at ADFA. My year 12 results were enviable, with very strong scores in maths, chemistry, english and especially physics. I thought at the time it would be a good idea to get some experience in that environment, so I applied for the reserves (keeping in mind that this is also something I could do while at school!). Anyway, the defence recruiter at JOES day suggested I apply for pilot right then and there, and after some persuasion I agreed even though I hadn't prepared. Well, apparently my scores at JOES were very good, and soon enough I was booked into a Pilot Spec Testing day.

This is when the dream went a bit by the wayside. I didn't pass first up unfortunately, but I was told I can keep trying if I want. So next year I tried again with the same result and only now did they tell me, contrary to what I had been previously told, that I only had three strikes on this one (I had all the time in the world, so I figured it wouldn't matter butting my head against the brick wall that is the spec testing day a few times! :ugh:). I was also told that my scores were very strong all round - except for the instrument reading one.

I had previously been told that the IR test was all about accuracy, so as you can imagine, I was quite cautious so as to get my answers right (only to find out later that its a speed test!). Anyway, I took the year to travel Europe by myself, working holiday in England .ect to get some life experience into me before I faced the coming year (2008). My last test was a year ago, and I can now head in whenever I want - but this is my last attempt. As far as I'm concerned, instrument reading is not really an innate skill and can certainly be improved upon. Given this, and considering I scored well all round otherwise, theres no way I'm not going back a third time for the job that I have dreamed about since I was a kid. There is nothing I wouldn't do to get this job - it's the first thing I think about every morning and its on my mind when I go to sleep at night to be honest. I have heard plenty of people have made it in on their third go, so I haven't given up.

Is there anyone out there that has been in a similar predicament, has passed/taken the test before, or anyone that is/has worked closely with anyone in a profession and could offer any good advice as to what I can do here? Clearly the IR is the test I need to improve on, but how to do that best is anyone's guess. My stance here is that it would be foolish to rush in right now without improving in every way I can first. If anyone has any advice at all for me on any part of the assesment don't hold back - any advice, criticism, suggestions or encouragement would be greatly appreciated. I'm here to learn, so cut loose! Thanks in advance for any help, as I said before, you've all be a great help so far (its a pity I never looked around on the net before taking the tests before!! :\...Oh, and sorry about the long post :D).

- Samuel

28th Jan 2008, 01:14

I have no idea why you failed. Maths is not my strong point, in fact I had not even completed year twelve when I passed in 2002.

You sound far more intelligent and educated than myself. My advice would be to take your time before sitting the tests again. I know people who didn't start ADF pilots courses until their late 20s-early 30s so you have plenty of time, no matter what they tell you. You could even finish your degree before applying again.

There are a few good books around to help you with the individual tests. I have one called 'Military Flight Aptitude Tests' that is availlable from Concept Aviation Supplies in Bankstown.


I have also seen another publication and even a short course advertised in 'Australian Aviation' magazine(I think it's called 'So you want to be a pilot').

Think about if you really want it before you sign on the dotted line. If you fail BFTS you may find yourself stuck in the RAAF for a long time, flying a desk or digging gunpits. Plenty of oportunities exist outside defence if you want to fly but if you do choose to go for it again, give yourself the best possible chance:ok:.

28th Jan 2008, 10:58
Why was my thread moved to this one? I need RAAF - Royal AUSTRALIAN Air Force help. This RAF thread at best has very, very vague similarities to what I need. I would appreciate it if it were moved back, and not left in a thread frequented by "OASC Candidates and wannabes" and other RAF related personnel.
Not that I hold anything against the RAF, but i'd just like some RAAF specific advice :). Thanks

17th Mar 2008, 10:56
Well, I passed pilot specific testing, which was the part I was most stressed about really. Some bits of it were pretty hard but I scored well enough obviously. The advice I would give to you guys who go through it is never give up, keep working at it, you may feel like you have done terribly and surprise yourself.

I have assessment day coming up shortly with interview and psych, looking forward to it. Then it's just FSP and OSB, the hardest part of which will be actually getting 2 weeks off work to go to FSP :ugh:

17th Mar 2008, 15:29
Hello Ritero,

Congratulations so far!
I've just read your first post months too late, anyway I'd already come up with some comments so I'll send them off anyway. Maybe useful for others...

First off, I've been there and done it all, sailed through the lot but failed the final ophthalmological examination (long story..)

Not in any particular order...

1.Don't be intimidated by the recruiting Sergeant.

2. Tell the truth. These people are trained to tell if you're lying. Example, I was asked if I'd smoked dope. I said yes cos I knew I'd look guilty as hell if I denied it. Asked to explain, I replied I'd tried it at Uni but didn't like it (bit like Bill, but I inhaled..) and moved on etc. That was fine with them.

3. Apptitude tests:
Basic mathematical skills,science knowledge particularly Physics, stuff lfrom years 10/11 (form 4, 5 for the British and Kiwi folks). English obviously. I actually failed year 12 English (lack of interest) but got thru the RAAF stuff no probs. (I have a B.Sc. which prob. helped..)

4. Pshyc. Evaluation (Pshyciatrist):
This one just keep it simple and straight forward. Be confident. Here they are looking for looney tunes. I was asked if I'd ever considered suicide...

5. Hand eye coordination test (stick/rudder pedals moving light, target). Don't know if they still do this test? I did it before the days of PC games! The main thing here is not to PANIC! For me and the others at the time it was WTF?! How the hell do you get the crosshairs on the target. Impossible!? The thing is, you do it twice, 5 minutes apart. They are looking for an improvement 2nd time around. Just make sure don't panic and give up. Couple of guys were failed on this when I did it......

6. Officer Selection Board:

Back to basics really, if you've got this far it should be in the bag. If you live,eat and dream aviation and read/browse aviation stuff fulltime and you really want it, it'll be a piece of p@ss. You ought to have lots of aviation general knowledge. Expected actually, no excuse if you don't. You wanted to be a pilot all your life right? I visited 1FTS at Pt Cook b4 the interview, showed I was keen (they asked me if I had)...
Actual flying experience, depends on your age I think. If you were 26 and hadn't done anything I'd be concerned if I was on the panel. If you were 18,19-early 20's and keen as mustard with no time I'd give you a tick. Just be confident and communicate your desire to become a RAAF pilot. DON'T say u want to learn to fly so you can get your ATPL and become a Qantas pilot!
End of the day they're trying to work out if you have the commitment and are worthy of responsibility of being let loose on a 50 million dollar aircraft or whatever they cost these days.
Don't forget you have to be potential 'officer worthy material'.... Whatever that is, ability in crazy drinking games is part of it from what I've heard from my mates..!

Hope this is of use, good luck to all who are trying. But at the end of the day, luck's got nothing to do with it.... CONFIDENCE

13Snoopy13, if you're still meandering, don't delay any more. Just do it now, you're running out of years. They don't want to spend millions training you if you can only return x years of flying service. RNZAF rejected me on this issue and at the time I was 2 years under the official max recruiting age. (would of failed the eye exam anyway if they were on the ball...)



17th Mar 2008, 21:53
There's one word to take out of Octanes post; that is CONFIDENCE. I did my OSB at Tamworth in 06 and I didn't project as much confidence as I could have (the board president can be pretty intimadating!) and my marks showed that, but I got here in the end and I'm living the dream here at RMC.

You have to go into the OSB as if your already in and they are asking you to stay, but also know your sh!t. Know, and be able to clearly explain how something flies, exact platform specs and wpn systems with ranges (including ones coming into service) the REALISTIC trg timeline. The little 1%ers, all in detail, but also be ready to say that you don't know, DO NOT bull****, that goes for the DI and the OSB.

Good luck and ENJOY Tamworth, it's an awesome two weeks with some really switched people.

Now to go and run around the bush for a few weeks in nice dry and sunny QLD... hang on....

25th Mar 2008, 03:40
Anyone got any tips for passing the instrument reading test?

27th Mar 2008, 16:25

Just got your email. Sorry about the 2 month late reply - I haven't been PPRUNeing (or checking that email) for a long time. I'll do a public reply as this info may be handy - it was to me.

Firstly, do you recall who told you that the 3-shot rule applied to spec testing? Was it the psych/psych assist, or your recruiter...or your recruiter relaying the message from the psych? I was not told the same when I had to resit spec testing myself. I was previously under the impression that it only applied to the GAS component (general ability testing), and recruiters have been known to be wrong before (one told me to do the wrong laser eye surgery!).

Secondly, are you aware that you can write in requesting your aptitude testing results? Ask your recruiter for the address to send the request to. In your situation, I'd suggest doing that so you can see if you improved from the first time, and how far off you still are from the cutoff. I can't recall exactly what the psych told me when I had to resit aptitudes (so take this info with a pinch of salt and don't quote), but I believe he said the cutoff for aptitudes graded on the stanine was somewhere around 5, and, as you now know, you have to pass them all. Double check with the psych on the cutoff, if he'll tell you; and please share with us.

You know if you are actually quite close to passing and you possess great suitability for a position in other aspects, recruiters have been known to push for a waiver on aptitude testing results for certain candidates. It is, however, a pain in the ar*e, and a last resort, with no guarantees. Hopefully this information offers you slight relief though.

Here's my advice. As wise as it is to be cautious about the final attempt, try not to psych yourself out before you get in there. Take your time looking closely at the test instructions page and burn the image of the example instrument setup into your mind. Note where each instrument is positioned relative to others, so you can immediately look to the instrument the question refers to. Note their applicable scales, which direction indicates an increase/decrease, and maximum/minimum readings. Don't linger or double check your answers until the end - you will be surprised how few errors you actually make, provided you know how to read the gauge correctly, while covering a lot more ground. And don't forget you still need to pass the other spec tests as well.

The IR test was the one I failed initially as well. I went back a second time, after I went off and did limited instrument flying as part of a NVFR, and passed. With a bit of common sense applied in technique, a bit more sleep the night before, and knowledge that I had to score well on EVERY test to get through, my score was raised from a 2 to a 7 on the stanine. Not impressive, but enough. Incidentally instrument flying has probably been the strongest part of my flying thus far. Go figure how this dark and mystic art of aptitude testing works...

28th Mar 2008, 09:48
Thanks hornetboy and muckholio for your help! I have the Wings book and I'll certainly look into the other tests you suggested.

Anyway, for the time being, I'm starting a btech aviation course at uni - and by what you guys have said it that may well go some way to assisting me at the IR section (and convey flight motivation.ect) and ill look into the instrument flying. I've made a few mockup tests myself with a variety of different oil, fuel, temp, pressure, va/s, airspeed, rpm, voltage and amperage to try and simulate the test that should help out. I'd really love to at *least* get through and at least prove myself in flight screening or at least the psych interviews this time! I may have my potential private flying career lined up, but I'd love to be an officer and I'm sure nothing in the civvy world compares the the diversity, excitement and challenges you get with a military flying career!

30th Mar 2008, 06:30
Thanks all,

I got through assessment day and was recommended for flight screening and OSB. I was told that though I'd passed, for OSB I need to do a lot of study on the RAAF - squadrons, aircraft & specs, history, bases, locations etc. Also need to expand my knowledge of the training process, life as a RAAF pilot, career directions, responsibilities (other than flying) etc. I know a fair bit now, but need to know basically everything. I also need to learn as much theory as I can on leadership, I haven't had a lot of experience in this field (not much team sport in high school) which will count against me.

So basically a lot of study to do for the next stage, and a bit of waiting to see if I'm offered a place on FSP. I can't go 'till July anyway so that part is not so bad.

If any current RAAF pilots feel like answering some questions shoot me a PM with your email :)

7th Apr 2008, 01:51
Hi guys! I am still around and am due to have my pilot specific testing in a couple of weeks (earliest possible!).

Can anyone enlighten me as to what kind of math to expect in the additional tests for pilot testing? I know there is aviation reasoning which was one previous weakness I have had to work on, but I can't for the life of me recall what the other math test involved!

Anyone know of any useful resources for practice tests etc?

FYI, I am no longer aiming for RAAF, I have to be realistic, and as pointed out in Octane's post, my age would (despite the fine print) be a cross against my name. So I am concentrating on army & navy aviation as i see this as my best chance for getting through. If I get an RAAF offer, then thats just a bonus!

I have let the DF know I am doing this for a long stint in the ADF, I am not interested in the financial rewards and certainly have no aspirations for flying civilian buses. As for the leadership theory, I did 3 years of it care of my management degree at uni, so hopefully that will count as a plus for me!

As for confidence, its a strange thing, but I actually wondered during the JOES day if knowing the job too well and not having any questions to ask was a good thing?

Thanks to everyone in this thread who have kept it alive, its good to hear some current news. I will let you all know how I went after Pilot Testing. In the event I don't get through this round, I will only be more prepared for the next run at it!

9th Apr 2008, 07:48
I am wish to apply to the RAAF and attend a JOES day. I would appreciate any assisstance in relation to the aptitude test, are there any websites/books out there that would help me in preparation any advice would be great, thanks

12th Apr 2008, 10:39
ms, your DFR should have given you some info on the aptitude test otherwise it can be found on the defencejobs.gov.au website. This example is pretty much what you can expect for JOES, so if you can do them without a problem then you should be fine.

Other than that, just brush up on your math and try to find some of those career based aptitude tests, i.e. the sort you do when applying for a supermarket job online :). Read the posts above and other threads that relate to the aptitude testing, they will give you a good idea as to what you can expect.

Most importantly make sure you present yourself as officer material on the day. ie. dress smart, be confident and know what you want. Also, if you haven't started researching the job then do it now and know it like the back of your hand. When you book your JOES with a defence recruiter they will pretty much guide you on what you need to know and answer any questions you might have, or refer you to someone who does know the answer(s).

If you are looking for specific books on aviation aptitude testing, well there are the american guides for their military aviation testing, but there are none (that I know of) regarding the Australian Defence Force. Best bet is to sift through the internet and try to find some general aptitude and IQ tests or visit a library/bookshop to see what they have on the topic.


13th Apr 2008, 02:58
There is one for the RAAF, though a lot of the info is outdated. It's called Wings book.


13th Apr 2008, 14:51
I'm applying for british forces but if i was in your position (and living in Oz), i would be making use of the pilot aptitude assessment centre.

I can't remember the company's name but they are advertised here in Pprune. If only somebody ran something similar here in the U.K!

14th Apr 2008, 08:01
I want to say thank you for your reply.

18th Apr 2008, 06:41
Had my pilot testing today and got through! Really thought it was game over part way in, but, as the unwritten law of examinations usually go, when you think you did poor you end up doing alright.

Waiting for my defence interview and psych day now.

Good luck to those who are looking to do pilot testing in the future! Believe you can do it, and stay focused on what you really want.

20th Apr 2008, 15:22
Hey, good to hear there's some more people out there getting through. I had my pilot testing last Monday down at Parramatta. Did very well, I've done a lot of preparation having been living off my savings since January (my last job paid quite well). I found lots of useful info here and moreso on the Australian Air Force Cadet forums, and as a result I'm happy to say I finished every section before time ran out. Apparently that's pretty rare.

For anybody else doing it, the mental math problems get pretty crazy - estimate 359,000 / 42,000, you have ten seconds, stupid hard fractions, etc. To give you an idea of an average long-form problem, a ship could be going at X knots for Y hours, then sustained damage resulting in it going 2 knots faster than 18% of its maximum speed. If it then travels another Z hours, how far did it go in total? Try doing 30 of those under a tight time limit with only paper and pencil!

Instrument comprehension is exhausting, 60 questions in only 9 minutes (9 seconds per instrument). I only finished it with about 10 seconds to go, and the girl next to me only made it a bit more than halfway through. The two joystick test is pretty hellish too, I practiced for it by flying helicopters in X-Plane, but still felt only barely prepared.

Best thing I can advise is X-Plane, focusing on hovering and landing helicopters to improve your hand-eye-joystick coordination (http://www.amazon.com/Graphic-Simulations-1055-X-Plane-9/dp/B0015392CI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1208703543&sr=8-1) making sure to practice using both hands, reversing the controls, etc. Also, this book is great for the written tests (aircraft silhouettes, instrument reading): http://www.amazon.com/Officer-Candidate-Arco-Military-Tutor/dp/0768917018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208703598&sr=8-2

And know how to do mental math accurately and *fast*, it helped me greatly. I learnt my time tables pretty thoroughly, and also how to multiply any two two-digit numbers together.

Given the long, long odds of being selected as a pilot, I was feeling pretty unsure about things until I walked out of the recruitment office on Monday. However, after this performance I think I might actually have a shot at it, just have to hope I don't screw up at flight screening! Anybody have anything useful to suggest about that?

Oh, and in case anybody is wondering the guys at recruitment didn't say anything about keeping quiet about what the tests entailed. Given the number of study materials out in the wild, they seem quite happy for people to share their experiences. Not to mention that with the grueling time limits, to a large extent candidates either have it or they don't.

21st Apr 2008, 06:46
Congrats mate, I felt the same halfway through mine.

21st Jun 2008, 05:35
Hello all,

I am new to this forum and i'm using it as an information source to hopefully help me in my quest to one day becoming an Australian Air Force Pilot.My story goes as follows:

I am currently 23 years of age and after spending the last 8-9 years of my life working in a trade,have decided to finally bite the bullet and chase the career path i have always dreamt of.

Over the past 3 years i have returned to school (night school,because i work full-time) in order to obtain the education requirements necessary for entry.In this time i have also began my testing through Defence Force Recruiting (DFR) and finally had my Assessment Day in January (2008) - where i was given the all clear for Flight Screening.

Now this is where my problem begins.

Since then i have rang DFR on many occasions to see how my application is going,only to be told that "it has been sent to the board".
That is all fair and good however,it has been six months now and i have still heard nothing.

I do realise that they have many applicants and i'm not asking for any special treatment,but,i really would like to know what is happening (whether they haven't looked at it yet,i have been placed in the waiting pool,ect...)

I have managed to get in contact with some current Air Force pilots whom all have been exceptionally helpful and they have all told me the same thing - WE NEED PILOTS,KEEP CALLING DFR.Yet, when i call they have said "there is nothing they can do - Just wait to hear from the board".

Is there any way that anyone here knows of, that i can find out where i stand at the moment.

One of my friends has been to the Officer Selection Board for the Army where the Commanding Officer of the Pilot Selection Agency gave him his card and said,"get in contact with him if he has any problems getting to Flight Screening".He has offered his details to me however,i am a bit hesitant to do that (i don't want to get in trouble).

So if there is anyone here that is in my situation,or any Service members who can give me some advice it would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,


21st Jun 2008, 05:52
Six months is way too long. Put it in writing and tell em to pull their finger out as you are being stalled and will look at other options. Take the upper hand. They may even like that way of thinking from a future pilot and it may go your way.

Arm out the window
21st Jun 2008, 09:49
"Telling them to pull their finger out" won't achieve anything except to piss the person opening your letter off.
However, making some polite but firm enquiries would be totally fine.
The main thing to keep in mind is that the RAAF is like any large organisation -when you make contact with it, you may not be talking to someone who knows, or cares about, the answer to your question.
Some tenacity is needed, plus careful noting of who you talked to, what their position is, and what they said.
If someone fobs you off with something non-committal like "You'll be contacted in due course", try to pin them down to something specific. If they can't tell you, ask for the contact details of someone who can, then send a letter or email to that person.
Putting things in writing is good, or at least keeping your emails or records of phone conversations so if someone says "Try us again in a month", or some such thing, you can come back to them with specific dates, times, who it was, what they said, etc., so as to not let them use the same excuse twice.
Good luck and keep trying, and don't be put off by the bureaucracy.

21st Jun 2008, 11:04
Mark 86

My first impression from your post was "well here's a keen young fellow who should be considered" but then you start spoiling it all by showing that you are lazy and inattentive to detail , both detracting from the essentials for a RAAF pilot.

You indicate that your communication skills are inadequate and your laziness by not bothering to use the shift key on the keyboard and being satisfied to demean yourself with an "i".

Indicators such as that mean that you may be careless in the cockpit where much error free computer entries are often required.

Green on, Go!
21st Jun 2008, 12:14

How about you look at your own sentence structure, grammar and punctuation? Those in glass houses and all that...

When are you 'Baby Boomers' and senior 'Gen Xers' going to realise that language evolves and younger people, particularly those who have grown up in the digital age, don't communicate in the same way that you do? Nor do they really care what you think about the way they communicate.

I'm sure your parents and grandparents would be mortified by your use of the Queen's English, they're just less likely to chastise you on internet forums. :yuk:

21st Jun 2008, 13:11
Thanks for the response guys,I appreciate it.

(Mick.B) - I have contemplated putting something in writing however, I didn't want to stir the pot and make things harder for myself.Nevertheless, if I haven't heard anything in the next few weeks I think it will be within my best interests to do so (it will be polite though).

(Arm out the window) - You will be pleased to know that over the past two and a half years i have kept every e-mail i have recieved from DFR,together with all responses i have had from current RAAF Pilots.
The only problem which lies here is that every time I ring to speak to my Recruiter they have moved on and I have someone new to deal with.

(Green on,Go!) - Thanks for the support.

One thing that I failed to mention in my first post was that one of the RAAF pilots I have been talking to is a FCI from Williamtown.He has over 4000 hours flying F/A-18's and I was lucky enough to go for a flight with him.
I may get in contact with him again and see what he thinks.

This is just so frustrating,I know that Pilots Course will more than likely be the most challenging 18 months of my life.But, I am prepared to put in the hard yards and do as much as I possibly can to graduate.


Like This - Do That
21st Jun 2008, 13:19
When are you 'Baby Boomers' and senior 'Gen Xers' going to realise that language evolves and younger people, particularly those who have grown up in the digital age, don't communicate in the same way that you do? Nor do they really care what you think about the way they communicate.

Green On

Milt might be labouring the point a little, but those 'Baby Boomers' and senior 'Gen Xers' are the Wing Commanders and Group Captains who will assess Mark and his peers at the OSB, and then through the early stages of their careers. Ergo Mark and his peers will just have to 'really care' a little.

Mark for what it's worth, and I think I am a senior 'Gen Xer', or an immediate post-boomer, your comms skills are OK.

Good luck!

21st Jun 2008, 14:03
(Like This - Do That) - Thank you for your comment.

I have been trying to improve my grammer of late and will continue to do so.


21st Jun 2008, 22:26
Like this--

Don't be so sure the OSB are so clueless that they haven't realised the world has moved on from the days of black labradors under the desk and pink gins in the O's mess after work:rolleyes:
I believe they have even heard of email..

22nd Jun 2008, 00:20
Since then i have rang DFR on many occasions to see how my application is going,only to be told that "it has been sent to the board".
That is all fair and good however,it has been six months now and i have still heard nothing.

I do realise that they have many applicants and i'm not asking for any special treatment,but,i really would like to know what is happening (whether they haven't looked at it yet,i have been placed in the waiting pool,ect...)

G'day Mark,

I can't agree more with AOTW's advice. Continue to maintain records of all the times you have made contact (as you have been doing), and keep following up with another polite phone call every couple of weeks or so if you haven't heard anything. This, IMHO (that's In My Humble Opinion in the latest lingo, Milt! :E), is not being rude or pushy - on the contrary, it clearly demonstrates someone with drive and motivation to achieve a personal goal. I think that this is probably a far more desirable quality in a pilot applicant than someone who can spel and do gramma gud! Just don't expect things to magically change once you are actually in the service though - there will still be a fundamental need to follow up everything that you have a vested interest in. Unfortunately, if you don't do it yourself, it just won't get done at all.

The Baffler :ok:


I know that Pilots Course will more than likely be the most challenging 18 months of my life.

If you're lucky! More like a few years, the way things are going at the moment!:{ It's worth it in the end, though.

Flight Detent
22nd Jun 2008, 02:34

To quote you:

"This is just so frustrating,I know that Pilots Course will more than likely be the most challenging 18 months of my life.But, I am prepared to put in the hard yards and do as much as I possibly can to graduate."

Having been through the RAAFs aircrew training system (and graduated!), some years ago, let me tell you that your statement is a gigantic, read really gigantic, understatement.

Your pilot training course will easily exceed ANYTHING else you have ever done as regards both it's difficulty, and how easily it will be to get booted out for not exceeding the required standard, right up to the very last day!

And don't forget, the overall assessment you graduate with will determine what category of aircraft you will be operating following graduation.

By that I mean if you are only average or less in assessment, you will not be getting anywhere near a fast jet, but the C-130 will be the go for you! (600 knots verses 300 knots!)...get my drift here?

Sorry for being blunt..but that's the way it is, pilot shortage or not!



22nd Jun 2008, 04:24
With blunt-minded individuals like Milt running the show, is it any wonder the military is in such a parlous state these days? Then again, it sounds like nothing's changed since I left the fold 15 years ago...:rolleyes:

Good luck with your application Mark 86. Don't let defence bureaucracy get you down - you certainly seem to have the drive to succeed and fulfil your dream.

22nd Jun 2008, 04:50
Thanks BuzzBox,

I'm not letting bureaucracy get to me.This is what i want to do and I'll stick to my guns until I get there.

Thanks for the support.

22nd Jun 2008, 05:14
Knowing Milt's background I suspect that Mark_86 ought not discount the more senior's advice .. you could, perhaps, do very much worse than drop Milt a line by email seeking specific guidance ....

Arm out the window
22nd Jun 2008, 07:27
Yes, I don't think anyone should really be calling Milt a blunt (have a search for some of his previous posts, particularly regarding the Mustang).

22nd Jun 2008, 10:21
Ahh cheers guys, that was niggling on my mind quite a bit. I guess I'll just have to see what happens, but at least I know it might not be an outright 'no'.


22nd Jun 2008, 11:18
I didn't say he was a blunt, merely 'blunt-minded'. I felt the pompous tone of his reply to Mark_86's first post was totally inappropriate. Guys like Mark_86 who are obviously keen to take on a RAAF career should be encouraged, not cut down by being labelled 'lazy and inattentive to detail'.

Arm out the window
22nd Jun 2008, 23:31
Fair enough.
I guess the point is to make sure he gives himself the best chance of making a good impression with whatever communication he has with the hirers and firers, and that may as well start with requests for information and support in places like this.

22nd Jun 2008, 23:57
Fair point, but I think there are more positive ways of getting that kind of message across.

23rd Jun 2008, 01:36

Anyone having your attitude need not apply. Perhaps you were one of my failures.

Having been on selection boards and been on rare occasions a party to some bad selections having dire and tragic consequences, be assured that the RAAF will continue to take great care with its selections of those who are to handle its enormously expensive and potent assets.

My advice to Mark 86 was to have him smooth off his rough edges evident in his posts if he is to have any chance of succeeding. His eagerness is a big plus but he leaves me concerned about the quality of his education.

23rd Jun 2008, 02:57
Bet this is the first time you've been called a baby boomer, Milt.:) (For those not aware of Milt's background, he was flying P51s in Korea when most of us baby boomers were still learning to suck our dummies.)

Mark 86, at a guess, I'd say your application is in limbo most probably because someone has put it aside because they're hoping to give you a go because you've shown obvious application by going back to night school etc... but in some other area, your application falls short.

Having spent some of my time in the RAAF perusing applications for aircrew positions, I was constantly amazed at the lack of care taken in the presentation of their application by some applicants. An old rule of thumb, very difficult to do in this age of instant emails, is to stick anything you write in the top drawer and re-read it next morning before sending it in. Even better, have your secretaty/wife/a colleague to scan it before you send it in - and if they query ANY point that YOU think is clear, it's not, so re-write it.

Good luck with your application. If it's what you want to do, it's worth pursuing.

23rd Jun 2008, 05:54

Perhaps you were one of my failures.

No, I wasn't. As a matter of fact I had a very successful career in the RAAF, which included several flying postings of my choice, a QFI course, representational duties in a very visible post, early promotion to SQNLDR and a 'gong' in the Australia Day honours list some years back.

I take your point - I am well aware of the need for attention to detail in any flying related activity. Nevertheless, I still feel the tone of your 'advice' to Mark_86 was inappropriate.

23rd Jun 2008, 06:15

OK now 'ops normal' and well done. Did you fly my babies?

I lay claim to being the midwife for every F-111C in that I made a point of attending for their first signs of life as each was energised electrically. Self destructed in the job when I managed to get the last one through Honolulu.

Meanwhile Mark 86 has made contact seperately. I may be able to give him some help with a reference.

23rd Jun 2008, 07:14
Did you fly my babies?

Alas, no.

I apologise for my earlier outburst. Glad to hear Mark_86 has been in touch.

23rd Jun 2008, 11:12
(Wiley) - Thank you for the reply.

As per your post - I don't believe my old Resume (which was handed in on my JOES Day two to three years ago) was really up to scratch. As "Milt" has clearly (and rightly) indicated, my grammer skills are in dire need of attention - so I think you could only imagine what they were like two to three years ago.

Hopefully this hasn't affected my application too much though.

I think by now it is quite obvious that this is something that I really want to achieve. So let it be known - I do appreciate all the input everyone has given, it really means alot.

As for my testing,Resume,documentation etc... which I have completed and handed in so far - there is nothing I can do about that now, it's in the past.

What I can do however, is ensure that when/if I get to Flight Screening I do as best as I possibly can in order to make up for earlier discrepancies - and hopefully get a position at Pilots Course.

Once again, if anyone has any more advice on how I can get my application moving along any faster, please let me know.



Inspector G.
27th Jun 2008, 00:23
I'm hardly a wealth of information but I would be interested to find out how you are getting on with your plans to join the RAAF, theedmancometh?

The reason I ask is that I am in a similar(ish) boat to yourself as a NZer with designs on joining the RAAF. For myself it has taken 4+ years of planning and work to get myself in a position to apply for a Permanent Residency Visa, of which I have 38 weeks left to go until I am eligible to do so. In this final year I am focusing on preparing for aptitude/fitness tests, as well as learning as much about the RAAF as I possibly can.

Although these forums and others have been a fantastic source of information about the recruitment process, it would probably we wise to speak to a recruitment officer sooner rather than later. I had intended to head back over to the West Island later this year, and it would probably be smart to arrange something beforehand. Is there any way to contact ADF recruiters from overseas?

I'm quite happy to share my progress on the process for others who are interested, however you wont hear much from me for 38 weeks until I reach the 1st hurdle. In the meantime, however, feel free to PM me theedmancometh if you want to compare notes on the whole affair.

Inspector G.
30th Jun 2008, 01:15
I'll send you a PM shortly

4th Jul 2008, 06:02
Hi all,

Today I found out I have been selected for a Pilot Selection Agency course - 26th July. The whole process started over 8 months ago back in November!

As I'm 27 I really don't feel age is much of a factor at all. It has never been mentioned during the whole process and is I think a bit dated. Possibly more related to aptitude to learn new skills.

I started flying when I turned 15 but personal circumstances meant I couldn't really pursue the career until now. I haven't flown since 2001 but I love flying and can't really see that as a barrier.

Will now spend the next 3 weeks getting as much information as possible, and preparing; I've been jogging a fair bit, and just going over all the basics.

Anyone else found out they are in the July 26 program? Swap preparation advice?

What really helped me get this far was a phone call to an actual pilot in the air force - Flight Lieutenant Steven English. He helped me understand amongst other things leadership opportunities as a pilot and other duties pilots may perform whilst on base. I.E. Safety Officer, General Social Activities Officer. Leadership example: Finding a potential safety hazard and referring it to a commanding officer, or working out a safer way or a more efficient way to conduct a certain task.

Good Luck

Cheers, Joel.

5th Jul 2008, 07:53
Hi edman,

Between high school and applying:
Basically after high school I was put in a situation where I couldn't leave Sydney (other family member medically related reasons) until 2004. I was also quite financially limited at this point as well due to more or less the same reason.

This isn't the first time I have applied !

First was in 1999 I applied for ADFA. Failed at the interview stage - Unknown; possibly age. Was asked to come back.
Came back in 2005. Failed due to motivation - reasons for applying - general knowledge. Asked to reapply in 6 months.
Reapplied 2007. Through to PSA!

My advice - Keep applying until you get in if thats what you really want to do. I heard of someone who was successful after 5 attempts!

They will question my motivation. I will be preparing that the most. I know my own motivation is strong, but explaining it out may be difficult. My constant reapplying might show motivation. Explaining my choices will be hard but maybe my flying aptitude will cut me some slack !

I have approximately 60 hrs all accrued before 2002 which means Ill be assessed with people who have never flown; "Band 1" inexperienced. Which may or may not work in my favour. I think I would be okay in the advanced stream but I'm happy to be in the beginner stream.

My preferences. Air force; Navy; Army.
To be honest I would be happy flying in any service.


5th Jul 2008, 07:53
Man this thread is useful. Im currently in the process, still have to set an assessment day date. I found the JOES day testing to be not too challenging, while the pilot specific testing I found hard. During the fuel/distance/time calculations I thought I had failed, but allas I passed. Im quite concerned about the whole life expirience, considering im still in grade 12, but anyway, the AAFC bulletin has some great info on pilot specific testing.

oh and there is a certain amount of study you can do for pilot specific testing, as the recruiters will tell you you cannot study. Example, try the New Zealand Air Force recruiting, they provide some practice questions.:)

5th Jul 2008, 15:59
Hi guys,

(Being my first post, please redirect me if I'm posting incorrectly).

Basically I began my process in December last year, had no problems with the tests. Unfortunately my file was sitting on someone's desk at DFR for the last 4 months or so, rather than being sent off to the PSA.:bored:

Cut a long story short, at short notice I got informed of being panelled for the FSP next week.

Because I didn't hear ANYTHING from the ADF/DFR (not even a letter acknowledging being recommended to FSP, etc) I just assumed I wasn't a cut above the rest, so I hadn't had any flights or kept up the studying.

So in the last 10 days or so, I've been studying my tits off
(found this really helpful:FAA - Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (http://www.faa.gov/Library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/) )
and trying to book for instructional flights has not been easy - apparently it's a really busy time to be flying, and was told I should be booking about a month in advance...

I've only had one 40 minute instructed flight in a cessna 152, but I LOVED IT!! I am seethingly jealous of every pilot, esp RAAF pilots, out there!!! You guys get to do THIS for a living?!!

My background is in veterinary surgery - lecturing and reasearching at 2 different universities after a short time in private practice. I think I've been placed in a good position - I've seen plenty of arrogant and cocky people as well as those that cannot work in a team, and saw my fair share of good and bad leaders. This motivated me to seek a good team working environment that was professional and dedicated, as well as requiring enormous amounts of physical and mental skills (ie, the military)
It also taught me to multi task, work under pressure, with lots of warning sensors/sirens going off, etc.
I am hoping these qualities are things that are useful in a miltary piloting setting.

Anyhoot, my questions are in regards to the FSP at the BAE systems in Tamworth:

1. Are candidates with little to no flying experience more likely to fail the course?

2. Does previous flying experience REALLY get compensated for? (esp if you have none to little??? Or is this an urban myth?)

3. What are the roles of the military pilot? (I gather there are lots of paper work roles, being an officer position and all?)

4. Although I'm due to fly out for Tamworth in 6 days time, should I cancel, in the hope of obtaining a later date? I accepted this originally feeling that the FSP is a test of potential, and although you could get several hours in the air, if I'm a dud, I wouldn't want to disguise it and try and "sneak" past the ADF. I gather the RAAF OSB people do this day in and day out, so they would pick out good from bad...?

5. I'm not sure how different the Warriors or Cessna's are to the FSP's CT4B Parrots and CAP10's... Is there any point in trying to find someone that could fly me up at such short notice?

6. can anyone recommend any flying centers in Sydney? (I've been going to Bankstown airport)

And any further tips/hints/info on the OSB would be greatly greatly appreciated!! :ok:

Thank you in advance, and apologies for an epic novel of a first post :O



6th Jul 2008, 00:50
Hi Ninja,
Well done on getting to FSP.
I applied in dec last yr too, and got into the 26 July FSP.

I can't really answer any of your questions as I havnt actually done the FSP - only to say - the course is designed for both people who have flying experience and people who do not. Since there will only be about 7 people in the course with you it is safe to say they will tailor it to your level and get a very good idea of how successful you will be during the initial training.

They actually advised me not to do any flying at all until the FSP, so now I won't be.

Theory wise, military flying is different to civilian so apart from general aeronautical knowledge, studying the FAA texts may not be extremely important, but I would say the more study the better.

Good Luck, Maybe Ill see you at East Sale or BFTS!


PS Read the thread in this forum started by HornetBoy. A lot of useful information there!

Tightly Wound
6th Jul 2008, 01:32
Firstly congrats on your acceptance.

1. & 2. The people most likely to fail are those who aren't prepared to put in the effort required to pass the course because they think they know it all or because they are too lazy to try and do it the way the ADF wants them to. Previous flying experience can be both a help and a hindrence. Don't concern yourself with it. Concern yourself with listening to your instructors and doing as they tell you. I didn't have any experience to speak of when I went through and the people who were suspended first on my course were those who boasted a few hundred hours. With your study, if you can get a copy of the PAARM (the ADF coverall reference) that may help a little.

3. & 4. This concerned me a little mate. If you are only 6 days from the FSP an you haven't got a firm grip on at least some of the roles you may be directed toward you should probably get onto the ADF websites and talk directly to ADF pers in the jobs. Some people on here have opinions based on theories and impression not fact so talk to a face if you can. I do not mean to say that there is not a wealth of knowledge and experience here but when you don't know any better it may be hard to decipher the current situation from other less accurate points of view. Go visit a base if available. I won't espouse opinions on roles, I'll leave that to others.

The rest. Don't worry too much about 'catching up', it is a screening process not the actual course. Prepare yourself by figuring out why you want to be a military pilot because ultimately that is what will be the motivation you are going to need to pass the actual (a quite a full on) course.

Good luck with it, it will be as rewarding as you make it.


6th Jul 2008, 09:57

1 -No more likely than the ones with experience
2- Yes
3- Have a trawl through RAAF/ARMY and Navy.gov.au websites
4- Enthusiasm and a genuine passion for military flying will get you a long way
5- Lots different
6- Sorry can't help with that one

Good luck!!:ok:

6th Jul 2008, 10:50

Cheers it really is a great wealth of knowledge and should be kept on the first page:ok:. You are correct in that it is a YOU session now, but on the letter I recieved it was called a JOES session still (had mine around 2 months ago). No interviews yet I have some on assessment day. Yeh you can deffinantly study, I recieved a comprehensive list of questions for assessment day, I just figured I would add the information about the pilot specific as it seems that is where a lot of people are held up.

cheers from the guy with the hat

6th Jul 2008, 12:49
Wannabe RAAF Pilots

As a former RAAF/RAF test pilot I occasionally had the task of assessing aircraft crew stations particularly cockpits/flight decks of newly designed aircraft to ensure that there was conformation with what we called the "Standard Man".

This involved the Standard Man's reach and manual dexterity around a crew station and his ability to handle all of the flight control forces, operating levers, switches and the like. One's ability to hold full rudder in a heavy with an engine out often determines your personal minimum control speed.

Consequently I am keen to know whether the recruiters examine you physically to determine how much you might deviate from the standard. There are limits of acceptability and I understand that the RAAF is doing a survey to determine how a standard Australian conforms with the present fleet of aircraft.

7th Jul 2008, 08:19
Gday guys,

Sorry about re-inventing the wheel with my other thread. I hadn't seen this thread before I posted it, so apologies for my guilty case of premature e-threadication. :mad:

I'm about to undergo the FSP course in about 5 days. Yes, I'm nervous, but the sheer thought of essentially receiving one-on-one flight tutorials with Australian aviation's best is just a real buzz. :ok:

Tomorrow I'm heading to Red Baron flight aerobatics for a one hour session - it ain't cheap (about $450), but I have heard so many people (several had gone through FSP) recommend this, I thought I'd give it a last second dash.

Was just curious about the course:

Do you do PT whilst you are there?
Are you tested in rotary wing (eg gyro's)?

I realise this question is going to sound whimpy, but I'm gonna ask it - are the rooms heated? I have heard that Tamworth is colder than a kiss from my mother in law this time of year :ouch: Should I take a mini heater/electric blanket? I feel the cold really badly (no body fat) and have pulled out the old thermal undies...:bored: (...and sox, and skivvy, and gloves...)

Also, have people been taking their laptops? (only because alot of my research/study notes/documents are on it)...
Or have most candidates found that there is no time other than studying for your flights?



7th Jul 2008, 08:25
Thanks everyone.

It's not that I've been ignorant or lazy - I had done my homework a while ago at the start of the process, but never really found an outright statment regarding the primary and secondary roles of pilots in text. But all good now ;)

Yup, although it scares me a little that I feel I haven't had enough flight time or study time, just the thought of going up in the air with RAAF guys is a phenomenal buzz that I really relish. I can't wait!!!

I've just found out about the other RAAF-pilot-wannabe thread (hehe), so I will continue to post on there from here on in.

Cheers everyone.

Sincerely appreciated. :ok:


Arm out the window
7th Jul 2008, 09:32
Good on you, Dan - you seem to be very well motivated and have a clue or two, factors which are half the battle.
As has been mentioned above, previous flying experience doesn't necessarily translate to success on RAAF pilot courses, and can sometimes cause hiccups due to the need to 'unlearn' undesirable habits, and possible overconfidence.
There can also be a tendency for significant previous experience to mask learning difficulties until the less familiar parts of the course come up (eg formation, low tactical navigation etc), at which point some people come unstuck.
Just approach it with quiet confidence and you'll most likely be fine.
For what it's worth, I started out in the RAAF as an 18 year old with lots of interest in flying but negligible practical experience (apart from aeromodelling) due to coming from a family not exactly flush for cash, but got through without too many dramas and went on to a reasonably long flying career in the service, so I know it can be done. Lots of other people have too.

8th Jul 2008, 04:04
Thanks Arm out the Window. Are you allowed to fly like that? :p

I took a one hour aerobatics flight with Red Barons flights today... WOW.
Sure, it may have bruised me financially (one hour cost ~$400) I am SOOOO glad I did this before going - IMO worth every cent. The people were really nice and very understaning - I squeezed in at the last minute, and they were very accomodating in this regard. I had Keith Kur as my instructor, and he was a fantastic tutor/instructor.
We covered (and I performed) taxiing, take offs, levels flights, aileron rolls, loops, loop-roll combinations, mid flight stalls, cuircuiting and landing (which I got! yeah!!!)
Sorry to sound like an arrogant bastard / boasting... i think I'm still on a buzz/high from the ride. It certainly has made me more aware and more confident internally, and now have an idea of what to expect with various manoeuvers and the G-forces associated with them.
If you are about to undertake the OSB, and haven't done so already, I would strongly advise you fork out a few hundred bucks and at least get up there for some get-used-to flying.
If you're in Sydney/Bankstown area, head to www.redbaron.com.au (http://www.redbaron.com.au)
Sorry to sound like a commercial plug, but the guys at Barons were really great. If i had more time (or rather, if they had more slots available this week) I would do some more, for sure!

After speaking to several people (RAAFies/Navy and instructors) I have received mixed views on whether as a RAAF pilot you are pilot first and officer second or officer first and pilot second.
I know it doesn't sound like abig issue, but I wanted to be sure/correct before going in to OSB. Just in case.

Oh yeah, and if you are going to strap yourself in to the seat tight (ie, aerobatics) make sure you do NOT have your wallet in your rear pockets. I couldn't feel my right leg/thigh/knee/toes after 15 minutes from take off :O

8th Jul 2008, 04:19
Hey ED,

I had the YOU day with basic aptitude that everyone goes through, then had the Pilot Specific several weeks later which was only the harder aptitude tests and coordination tests. All of my interviews are on the assessment day coming up. Hope this clears things up,

the hat guy

8th Jul 2008, 12:32
G'day Milt,

From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong) you are asking whether the RAAF test for ones strength and dexterity to be able to control the aircraft? So far they have not done this for me, and as far as I am aware do not do it at all during testing to determine ones suitability to join the RAAF.

Cheers from the hat guy

9th Jul 2008, 12:18
Hey ED,

200! Must be my lucky number:ok:. As for the time between tests, it is up to you really. For me, and I can only assume everyone else, they simply offer you the dates available in the next couple of months and let you choose it at your will.


9th Jul 2008, 12:46
The Hat Guy

Sorry I gave you the wrong impression re pilot leg strength. Reference to being able to apply rudder in an engine out case was just one facet for consideration.

I heartell the RAAF is conducting a survey of all typical Australians who qualify or want to qualify as aircrew to determine how they may best fit into the crew stations of the current and probably the future fleet having now been through the design/build phase.

When I was doing cockpit assessments I think the measure was reference a standard American/European man.

There may not be much difference.

11th Jul 2008, 07:52
Thanks dmcleod.

Some good tips there ! (...the white board, hey...:E)

Mmm.... I hate to admit it but it was only recently after speaking to several pilots and ex pilots that the consideration of other services (other than RAAF) has sunk in...:O

So, although I feel it's a bit late for me to change all my preferences to 5 (... because they will no doubt discern that I know about the RAAF but have little information about the Navy/Army...) should I still do this at OSB?
I.e., would putting 5 down for the other 2 services still increase my chances of getting offered any pilot role...? Or make me look unprepared for having chosen those preferences but not knowing enough about them?

11th Jul 2008, 09:17

Sorry I didn't answer your preferences questions in the msg I sent.

When I arrived I had my preferences at RAAF:5, ARMY:3, NAVY:1.

I was told what I told you. It doesn't matter to change it whilst your there but you must know things about all 3 services, which isn't hard I didn't know much about Army/Navy (because these are helicopters, all I was interested in is fixed wing). I studied these 2 whilst there.

The Navy will give you a service brief to try and sway you to them. He will tell you (should be lieutenant Kidd) that you can change your preferences. All you need to do is go to the PSA building (through the sim door, its a little portable building) and ask them to change them for you. Also when you go to sit your OSB interview the Wing Commander will ask you if you would like them changed.

13th Jul 2008, 11:26
Very confusing information indeed ED. Some say you d it at the pilot specific testing, but this didn't happen for me. Therefore I am assuming it depends on your recruiting center, but don't take my word for it, I wouldn't.

The hat guy

19th Aug 2008, 07:09
do they give u uniforms during flight screening?

19th Aug 2008, 10:50
They give you a silly looking orange jump suit to fly in.

19th Aug 2008, 14:41
I am not an A level or newly graduated entrant - I graduated over 2 years ago and have been making my way in the big wide world so I have plenty of 9 til 5 to keep me occupied!

The AFCO interview went well - the officer said it is normal for peoples "extra-curricular" interests to drop off after uni, but seeing as I have taken up whitewater and slalom kayaking, running and downhill/cross country mountain biking, the reverse was true.

To be honest, a 4 month wait is fine by me - I would relish the extra time to get fitter.

19th Aug 2008, 18:05
I had a quick scan through this thread and couldn't find anything relating to this:

"What are the roles of a Sergeant WSOp?"

I understand the roles of a WSOp, but what would my role as a sergeant involve?

Any info would be greatly appreciated... Cheers. :)

Pontius Navigator
19th Aug 2008, 19:24
but what would my role as a sergeant involve?

Before anyone else jumps in, smart question.

A non-aircrew sgt in the RAF will have served possibly 12 years with maybe 5 years as a cpl. A corporal is seen as the first step in management and a competent cpl is worth more than a new flying officer. It follows that a sgt is hugely competent in his job. That, as an aircrew sgt aged 20, is what you must measure up against. In short, there is no contest.

Never-the-less, in terms of command and control in the wider air force you will wear your 3 stripes and have all the powers of command and discipline comsensurate with your rank. Awesome.

At Cranwell you will find yourself as orderly sergeant and the front man on the whole station during your 24 hr duty. You may be a guard commander and responsible for a number of armed guards.

You will be senior to any ground trade corporal but initially you will know next to nothing. You must be open to advice and guidance from subordinates.

However you will largey be sheltered and mentored by your fellow aircrew. They will be sympathetic and help you.

I will leave it to others nearer the coal face to elaborate.

Final question for you, why not go for a commission and pilot?

20th Aug 2008, 07:30
but seeing as I have taken up whitewater and slalom kayaking, running and downhill/cross country mountain biking, the reverse was true.

You might want to consider adding a team sport/activity or two!

30th Oct 2008, 10:49
Hi, is there anyone here who knows anything about New Zealand's military flight screening and pilot testing? If so please PM.


6th Nov 2008, 05:29
Hi Everyone,

I will be attending the Flight Screening Course starting 24 November and ending 6 December. My flight hours are minimal (and aren't recent!) so I will be flying in the basic stream. It will no doubt be a great experience.

I've trawled through these forums and around the WWW but I haven't found much information regarding the actual flying undertaken whilst on course. I understand the first 7 basic course flights are in the CT-4B and the final 3 in the CAP-10. What are the main differences between flying these aircraft (other than ground handling with the CAP-10's tail-wheel) and is the transition between them difficult?

Do the instructor's assume nil flight experience on the basic course? How quickly does the course progress (i.e. do you get to stalls, steep turns, spins, inverted flight, etc.?)?

Any feedback would be well appreciated.



P.S. Is there anyone else out there attending the same course (24 November - 6 December)?

slow n low
6th Nov 2008, 07:07

Everything will be explained to you on the course in due time. You will have ample opportunity to visualise the flight sequences when you knock off, and on the weekend. Don't sweat it too much, do the prep they tell you to do and enjoy the experience. You can get on the gas every night as well if you want... its your choice:hmm:

9th Nov 2008, 02:24
Hi rory2907

I know this topic has been done to death but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in, as I was selected as an ADF pilot and went through a considerable amount of the training before deciding that military aviation just wasn't for me.

Instructors (testers really) do assume nil flying experience, but the reality is that most people on the FSP have some flying experience. Those without any tend to do very poorly as the learning curve is extremely steep. You progress from effects of controls to being tested on complete circuits in four days, and yes even on the basic course you do stalls, spins, wing-overs, aileron rolls and loops.

Contrary to the general tone on these forums, I found FSP to be unenjoyable and very stressful. There is a tendency for people to look back at it with a rose-tinted memory and make light of things that worried them at the time. During FSP there was nobody on my course who didn't wish for it to be over as quickly as possible. There are some fun moments, like aerobatics and 'Cluster' with the BFTS guys on Friday nights, but mostly it's a stressful experience because what you do has such a impact on your future aspirations. In many ways this tend continues after selection into officer training and BFTS. A Wing Commander told my commencing BFTS course, "You won't have a great deal of fun during ADF pilot training and you'll wish it was over almost every day. But when you look back from the future you'll remember it as the best time of your life. So bear that in mind as you live the experience." Also, don't 'get on the gas every night', that's a sure way to fail. You have to remember a considerable amount of new information in a short period of time and the mind remembers so much easier without booze from the night before in your system.

Transition between the CAP-10 and CT4B is not overly difficult. It's there to shake the candidates up at the last minute, test how rapidly they can adjust to a new set of procedures and a new aircraft. It is twitchy to taxi and in the take-off and landing rolls and that can be a problem, but I found it more fun to fly than the CT4B. Plus by that stage in the FSP you've got a clue as to whether you're doing well at it, or bombing out. So if you're doing well you feel more relaxed. :ok:

Just a few words for thought. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Captain Sand Dune
9th Nov 2008, 03:41
I understand the first 7 basic course flights are in the CT-4B and the final 3 in the CAP-10. Yes.
What are the main differences between flying these aircraft (other than ground handling with the CAP-10's tail-wheel) and is the transition between them difficult?CAP10 is much more responsive than the CT4. Don't under-estimate it on the ground. Keep your taxi speed under control! Your ability to transition from CT4 to CAP10 will certainly be regarded with interest. Some handle it better than others.
Do the instructor's assume nil flight experience on the basic course? Yes.
How quickly does the course progress (i.e. do you get to stalls, steep turns, spins, inverted flight, etc.?)? Stalls and steep turns on the CT4 phase. Spins on the CAP10. No inverted flight for the basic phase.
I will back up what slow n low said. Relax, do what they tell you to do, and prepare.
You can get on the gas every night as well if you want... its your choice I know he was kidding, but to make it clear - I would strongly reccommed you don't get on the wallop. If you can't stay off the turps for a couple of weeks, your motivation is in question!

18th Nov 2008, 19:27
Hello, I am hoping to apply to the RAAF as a pilot in 2011 when I have finished my degree, however I can get no clear answer for their attitude to LASEK laser surgery.

Anyone know if they take pilot applicants with LASEK?

Also does anyone know if the RAF are likely to take applicants with laser surgery in the next few years as current serving pilots can now have it done?

18th Nov 2008, 20:05
Also does anyone know if the RAF are likely to take applicants with l@ser surgery in the next few years as current serving pilots can now have it done?

My guess is that they won't accept people who have had it done before joining for a long time - 1) they have no "quality guarantee" and 2) unless they can't get enough pilots of the required standard, why change? They still have plenty of good applicants as it is.

4th Jan 2009, 10:33
Just another question about the medical on the assessment day. Obviously, BMI etc is a big thing. If your BMI is perfectly within the range, are you ok? i mean do they expect you to be trim, traught and terrific, like perfect. Or can you have an average body, like a lil flab but still perfectly in the BMI range. do you know what im saying? because the finess will only improve with the PTI's drilling you ;)

5th Jan 2009, 09:48
Schaefer, I don't think BMI matters too much. There were some pretty big boys on my BFTS course and they got to be quite large as it progressed, with no PT and too much canteen food! I was on the other end of the spectrum, being wafer thin. The Wing Commander just told me to each more steak at the Officer Board because I was too light for the ejection seats, eg under 62kg! They take all sorts of body types. There were some instructors up there who looked like they'd exceed the MTOW of the aircraft they flew, so I wouldn't worry too much :E

Captain Sand Dune
7th Jan 2009, 00:26
call it,

About the fast jet thing WAAY back in this thread - even F111s didn't get a girl driver - she bombed out, couldn't hack the pressure. So good luck to any other aspiring girls - really!!! Hard road and they say that girls are great at all the hand and feet thing - everything except for OCU. The one that made it through to 6SQN just happened to be sleeping with her instructor at OCU - guess that always helps!!
... Just like the ATC chick on the new RAAF accomplished ad who has been sleeping with her married RAAF boss to try and get ahead. He's since left the RAAF for AirNoServices, but you'd think the RAAF would try to avoid such negative publicity.
Mate, be very careful about making such claims. If you are already an ADF member Ė doubly so! As an ADF member there is a greater chance of adverse consequences should you choose to speak your mind, even on forums such as this! There are some vindictive people around. Itís not right, but itís a fact!
Schaefer, I don't think BMI matters too much. There were some pretty big boys on my BFTS course and they got to be quite large as it progressed, with no PT and too much canteen food!
If your BMI is over a certain limit (i.e., youíre a fat b*stard!) you will not achieve an aircrew medical. BMI is checked annually, and people have lost their aircrew medicals until they have got their BMIs under control again.
PT is scheduled at least once a week. The mess food is quite good, so that certainly can be a trap if youíre not prepared to exercise accordingly.
They take all sorts of body types.
The ADF do not take all body types for pilot training. There are various body dimensions which if exceeded will mean a risk of injury or death should you eject from a PC9 (advanced trainer). This is true for any ejection seat, i.e. there are limits.
Even those who donít do a real pilots course (i.e. donít fly the PC9) are not immune. The Kiowa cockpit is quite neat, and I am aware of a couple of Army students who had to complete their basic helicopter training in the Squirrel at Nowra because they were too tall to fit in the Kiowa.
There were some instructors up there who looked like they'd exceed the MTOW of the aircraft they flew, so I wouldn't worry too much.
BFTS has both ADF and civilian instructors. Civilian instructors are not required to complete an annual physical fitness test like their ADF counterparts. Oh, by the way I see a few pudgy marshmallows masquerading as students here too mate.

7th Jan 2009, 14:47
Hi Guys,

I am looking to join the RAAF as a Pilot. I am currently living in the UK and doing a BENG degree in Aerospace. I would not have any issuses in gaining Visa or Citizenship. I was wondering how I would start my application to RAAF???

Thank You for your welcomed advice!


Captain Sand Dune
7th Jan 2009, 20:38
Suggest you contact the Australian High Commision in London. They have a defence attache who may be able to point you in the right direction.

8th Jan 2009, 20:44
Many Thanks dude,

CheckList Please

Like This - Do That
9th Jan 2009, 00:04
ahem [cough cough]

Many Thanks dude :=

Get out of that habit for a start ..... 'yoof' speak does not make a good first impression. The ADF is not a snow boarding team.

9th Jan 2009, 00:28
Get out of that habit for a start ..... 'yoof' speak does not make a good first impression. The ADF is not a snow boarding team

Pleeeeeeeaaaasee!! Might not be a snow boarding club.......must be a drinking club though. Yes ..."thanks dude"...... far worse than any behaviour in the mess!!! :D Ahhh those were the days.


Captain Sand Dune
9th Jan 2009, 02:21
Yes ..."thanks dude"...... far worse than any behaviour in the mess!!! Ahhh those were the days.
You are closer to the truth than you may think!
Thanks to the Fun Police it's so easy to tread on one's old fella in the innocent pursuit of having fun in a military mess these days.
Small wonder no-one can be bothered!

30th Jan 2009, 13:12
Hi all,
Just a quick question, seems as though this is the appropriate thread: For Assessment Day and also Officer Selection Board, the interviewers obviously ask you some in depth questions to make sure you know your job and so on. I'm sure you need to know (and I have subsequently learnt!) the training in depth, some history, structure and all the aircraft, numbers, roles, flying squadrons and their parent wings and F.E.Gs and where these are all based, but do they go any further than that? I've also been told that they ask some pretty specific questions about the aircraft (what engines does this plane have, how fast does it go .ect), but I've run into a bit of a roadblock here recently - I noticed that the RAAF website's aircraft info is not consistent with other sources (books, internet, and even the RAAF museum website!). What's the go there? I'd hate to have learned incorrect info, so has anyone here been to OSB and been through this?

31st Jan 2009, 23:01
Don't listen to FlyNavy2...

I respect your opinion, but there is loads of time to prep and study.

You fly once a day MAX....unless weather is a player and they need to push you through, in which case, currency and continuity is great.

You only need to learn a few basic number and sequences. No checks or R/T.

I found it very monkey see, monkey do.

You do end up flying circuits after 4 days, but they don't expect much. Basic attitude flying and application of errors.

Good luck!!

15th Feb 2009, 12:52
Hey guys,

I've just got a few queries relating to my Flight Screening Program coming up on the 7th March. I'm applying for RAAF pilot direct entry as first preference and ADFA as a 2nd preference. So here is a bit about myself .....

I'm currently 18 years of age, going on 19 in late May and have a few concerns with my current level of 'life experience' and 'leadership qualities'. I don't mean to boast my whole life story on pprune, but I guess if that's what it takes to get the response I'm looking for, then so be it. I'm actually going into my second year of the Bachelor of Aviation degree at Griffith University and having a blast, but I am sincerely unsure if I'm cut out for the whole university environment right at this moment though.

All I've ever dreamt about is becoming a Fighter pilot in my own countries air force, so over the past 2 years or so Iíve been struggling along with my application to join. I went into my first JOES session (I'm aware it's now known as a YOUs' session) and was young, dumb and well off cue to sit any form of testing, or any interview for that matter. I learnt my lesson, went back for a second round some months later and passed with flying colours. I was then booked on for Pilot Specs testing and only ended up in Band 3 somewhere apparently :( Wasn't too thrilled about it, that's for sure. I don't mean to make any excuses, but the nerves got the better of me the night before the testing and I became a tad Iíll that night hopefully leading to my poor performance on the day haha. Saying that however, it's all done and dusted now so nothing I can change about that.

Anyway I had a few concerns with my life and where I wanted it to be heading (flying for an airline or with the RAAF). It was at about that stage I decided to take some time to think, done that and about 6 - 7 months later I re-activated my application and was put onto an assessment day immediately. Don't get me wrong, flying for the RAAF has forever been a dream of mine; I've never lost motivation, rather lost confidence in myself and having the ability to chase and achieve that dream. I studied my ass off that for that day, and it paid off according to the Defence interviewer. Apparently I possessed a very strong knowledge regarding the ADF, and RAAF in particular. Psych was fairly easy, as was the essay. With all the positives said, there was one negative in particular, that being my lack of leadership experience. My assessment day was on the 3rd December 2008, and once I saw the Doc I was advised I had to seek specialist advice on my back (orthopedic surgeon). As you could probably imagine, around Christmas time one would have buckleys' chance of getting an appointment. Fortunately enough thought I fell under a lucky star and got in for the start of January. Few weeks had passed, and DFR finally received my medical reports from the orthopedic surgeon. They sent them down to somewhere in NSW to get them checked and approved. I then received a call from a defence force recruiter on the 9th of February advising me that my file was received by PSA that day (9th Feb). This is where I am confused as I received a call from PSA on the 11th offering me a position onto the 7th March course. If I was in band 3 for the testing, and I apparently 'lack leadership qualities', why was I selected fairly quickly? Could it be the time of the year, not much going on around March? Or am I competitive?

Not sure whether or not this could be taken into account heavily when selecting the lucky ones for FSP or not, but I achieved fairly decent in my school results. VHA's and HA's across the board and I was undertaking math c, math b, phys, chem, bio and english. I also achieved a GPA of 6.38 in my Bach of Av. course last year in Uni. To add to this I've completed 21.4 hours flight experience at my own expense. Sorry if I come across as boastful, but all I'm really looking for is professional advice on my prospects of becoming a fighter pilot, and how best I go about achieving these goals. It is a professional pilots' network after all haha. I advised my defence interviewer on assessment day that I would try my best to bring up my level of leadership experience within the time I'd be selected onto a FSP course. Since then I've completed a St Johns' Senior First Aid Certificate and still awaiting a position to begin volunteering. As well as this, I'm coming up to my assessment day for my Surf Life Saving Bronze medallion so that I can commence patrols. Finally I was a school captain in year 7 and played club footy for 8 years up until I was 15. Pretty much all the leadership experience Iíve had.

If anyone could give me some information on how best I go about my time down in Tamworth, and just how realistic it is that I'll pass considering I've applied for Direct Entry as first preference.

Much appreciated
p.s. Again I don't mean to come across as boastful


Captain Sand Dune
17th Feb 2009, 05:13
I then received a call from a defence force recruiter on the 9th of February advising me that my file was received by PSA that day (9th Feb). This is where I am confused as I received a call from PSA on the 11th offering me a position onto the 7th March course. If I was in band 3 for the testing, and I apparently 'lack leadership qualities', why was I selected fairly quickly? Could it be the time of the year, not much going on around March? Or am I competitive?
Methinks you're thinking too much. As the add says, "just do it!"
If anyone could give me some information on how best I go about my time down in Tamworth, and just how realistic it is that I'll pass considering I've applied for Direct Entry as first preference.
Go back through this thread mate. There's some good stuff from people in the know.

17th Feb 2009, 08:47
All I've ever dreamt about is becoming a Fighter pilot in my own countries air force,
Anyway I had a few concerns with my life and where I wanted it to be heading (flying for an airline or with the RAAF).

which one is it? The reason I ask is because the board will ask you questions like this, and if you arent committed, they don't want to know you.

This is where I am confused as I received a call from PSA on the 11th offering me a position onto the 7th March course. If I was in band 3 for the testing, and I apparently 'lack leadership qualities', why was I selected fairly quickly? Could it be the time of the year, not much going on around March? Or am I competitive?

Who cares? You have been selected? Lots of people never get the opportunity, so get in there and do your best!

but the nerves got the better of me the night before the testing Mate, sounds like you're nervous (not just this comment, the general tone), and thats a good thing. Shows that you care. Get up to Tamworth and give it a rip. Be presentable during the day. Ask questions / absorb everything during your brief/debrief. Know the numbers. Study, chair fly at night. Be a team player with the other guys on flight screening, its not a competition anymore, share the gouge.

Read the rest of this post (yes all 11 pages or whatever). Pick up the general tone, dont hang onto any one peace of information too hard, but read between the lines.

Generally, work hard, have fun, be honest.

17th Feb 2009, 09:40
Hey flighthappens,

It is true, all i've ever wanted to become is an Air Force pilot, however in the past i never really thought I had it in me. I always thought the odds were stacked against me, but I've come to realize over the past year or so that I wont get anywhere with an attitude like that. Look lets just if given the choice, either fighter pilot or Airline pilot, I'd most definately choose to fly for the air force. It was cemented in my mind back then that I either took one road or the other, and going through the air force would of been at the time, taking a fairly big risk. I then started university and grew up a bit, learned how to juggle tasks and finally decided that I'd try out for the air force whilst attending uni. I do want the air force, but if I don't make it I also want something to fall back on.

Yeah look i'm very grateful to have been selected for FSP, though i'm a fairly anxious guy, and that's the reason i'd asked. I like to know the reason behind things, but no your absolutely right in what you say haha

Mate I don't really like to show it, but yes I'm extremely nervous as every little minute of my time down in Tamworth counts. I can't sleep and i find it hard to concentrate right at this moment as all I'm ever thinking about is getting through. I s'pose though, all that can be done is to take one step at a time, try your best and if all prevails good stuff (Y), if not then it wasn't meant to be. Haha i've read through every single page on this post by the way.

Yeah look i'm going into this in the frame of mind that it's not a competition rather how well an individual works in a team and contributes in anyway possible.

Thanks for all the support flighthappens...


p.s. anyone with any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated :)