STANSTED - 2

[STN Ramp Rat]

another one leaving the ship... when does it officially start to sink?


Travelmole (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2000323&c=setreg&region=2)

Atlantic moves to Gatwick

Atlantic Airways is moving from Stansted to Gatwick to operate an extended service to the Faro Islands.



The Faroese airline will fly twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays from late May to mid September, as well as flights at Easter.



Chief executive Magni Arge said: "We are delighted to be able to move our UK operations this year to London Gatwick, which is the preferred London airport for both our Faroese customers and for our UK outbound market."



The Faroe Islands, mid-way between Shetland and Iceland, have enjoyed increased interest due to the hit Danish TV drama on BBC4, 'The Killing'.

[mikkie4]

01.30 TST002 STN LAX any thoughts on this flight?

[STN Ramp Rat]

01.30 TST002 STN LAX any thoughts on this flight?

TST = Test , just a thought

[LTNman]

Chief executive Magni Arge said: "We are delighted to be able to move our UK operations this year to London Gatwick, which is the preferred London airport for both our Faroese customers and for our UK outbound market."

OK, I can see why Faroese customers might prefer Gatwick due to its connections but from a UK passengers point of view is Gatwick really that much better than Stansted:confused:

[crewmeal]

Whenever I think of Stansted I think of this:

FASCINATING AIDA - Cheap Flights - YouTube

To me it sums the place up!

[pamann]

Really?? It might sum up the 90% of flights operating out of STN but the airport itself really is a pleasure to use these days. Facilities restaurants and shops to rival the likes of LGW. Try LTN for what is a tin shed low cost hut that was designed by no doubt someone who's blind.

[Keyvon]

Turkish carrier Atlasjet has suspended ticket sales for the STN-IST route which was due to start next April.

Only the weekly charter flight to Antalya (on Saturdays, summer-only service) seems to be confirmed.

[compton3bravo]

Actually pamann the Luton ´tin shed´as you call it was designed by Sir Norman Foster one of the UK´s leading architects who is also one of the leading lights regarding the proposed new airport on the Isle of Grain. In my experience over the years practically all passengers I have been in contact with are not too particularly bothered about what the airport looks like, etc. it is just a matter of convenience or no alternative. Who in there right mind would want to travel through Heathrow unless they had to!

[Skipness One Echo]

Who in there right mind would want to travel through Heathrow unless they had to!

Me, T5, redeveloped T4 and new T2 coming have changed the passenger experience greatly in recent years. STN is something of a pleasure to use as it was built for a more civilised era when the future was Air UK and Sterling Service. Even Sat 3 has to be the finest Ryanair facilities anywhere. Now I know there is no even playing field between both airfields but the superior facilities were put up by the BAA.

I think the issse is that the Ryanair driven bubble was unsustaniable given their reluctance to pay for use of.....anything frankly. Long haul was a long shot which leaves short haul, and Ryanair dominate. STN was a victim of an overnight success.

[sunday8pm]

Where does Stansted go from here then? It seems nobody apart from Ryanair and Easy want to use it?

[davidjohnson6]

I find it very difficult to believe that no airline apart from Ryanair, Easyjet and the odd beach route airline would contemplate using Stansted. It is after all a large well-equipped airport with a long runway, large terminal, capable of handling a wide variety of operations, and good ground transport links.

I suspect that under BAA ownership, there is political pressure within the company to encourage major airlines to look only at Heathrow. At the very least, with the competition appeal process dragging on, Lufthansa opening a Stansted-Frankfurt route as an example would be seen as highly undesirable to Ferrovial's overall aims.

Remove this ownership / internal political pressure restriction and I suspect the business development / marketing team at Stansted could be rather more creative in their propositions to new airlines.

[sunday8pm]

With that in mind would MAG be the best potential new owners, with them keen to take business away from rivals LGW and LTN in particular - assuming BAA's LHR is always going to be more desirable for Flag carrier long haul.

[no sponsor]

After BAA upped their parking charges a couple of years ago, and refused to negotiate with my airline, I found myself out of work when our aircraft was moved elsewhere. By that time, STN had become a complete **** hole for a customer experience. I would walk through the terminal hall at 2am to find hundreds of eastern europeans in their sleeping bags waiting on the first flight of the day. It looked awful. Coupled with scumbag airlines, it has become a low cost airport. I'm sure that was not the vision when the excellent facilities were built.

It would not surprise me that BAA now have a scorched earth policy. Selling the airfield to someone else can only be a good thing. I now operate out of Gatwick, and the amount of investment being put into the airport is staggering. The new owners are really impressive, and have a policy of attracting operators to maximise the runway. Basically, BAA let the airport rot, and now a new owner has bought change and investment which is well overdue. One hopes that once BAA are out of the picture, then STN has a chance to become a much better airport with more than RYR and EZY.

GLA and EDI are also awful under BAA.

[flysx]

Atlantic going isn't the end of the world, yes it's an airline to cross off the list on Wiki but at the end of the day they carried 40-odd pax twice a week for 3.5 months of the year.

On the plus side, over the same period Iceland Express are coming back, so 2x A320s replacing 2 Avros. Plus the 3 weekly Wow Air.

Also on the up is Turkey. Pegasus more flights than last year, Anadolujet 4x weekly Ankara returning, Sky to Gaziantep returning, and the new Atlasjet to Antalya.

Also of interest, though it's one that you can't rely on until it's on sale and actually operating, is Mokulele Airlines of Hawaii, who have got approval from the US DOT for charter flights to Honolulu via Chicago Rockford. An ATI 767 supposedly been secured to fly it.

[STN Ramp Rat]

It would not surprise me that BAA now have a scorched earth policy.

It’s not an intentional one but yes they do. The entire basis of the BAA argument was that Stansted serves a different market than Heathrow, any sniff of a full service carrier wanting to move to Stansted would have to be discouraged in order not to undermine the argument. The sooner the airport is sold and a new more active commercial team are brought in the better for everyone. Gatwick is a shining example of life after BAA and hopefully one that Stansted can emulate.

Atlantic going isn't the end of the world, yes it's an airline to cross off the list on Wiki

The point is that the number of airlines continues to decline even if the flights by the remaining carriers are going up. Easyjet and Ryanair now account for about 90% of the traffic and that is NOT healthy. Easyjet have made their intentions clear with the deal with Southend and three aircraft will be moved next summer Stansted is dying a long and painful death and that needs to be reversed as soon as possible

[flysx]

I agree with your concerns about dominance Ramp Rat but there are green shoots...of late, there have been more airlines coming in than going out. FR might not pay much but the owners will be pleased with the extra pax for the shops, car park etc, particularly as many of the new routes are leisure orientated who tend to spend more.

What would be a massive blow is if Germanwings went. Then the departure board really would lack variety.

But yes, the sooner BAA go the better.

[racedo]

LGW has improved markedly since BAA got on the bus, really shocked at LGW the last time I went through it at such a huge change.

Love to see the same happen at Stansted but BAA fighting to make sure it doesn't.

[SENFLYER]

I would think that the appeal process for Stansted is merely a delaying tactic to get through the Olympics then the for sale sign will go up immediately and not before time..

[Steviec9]

LGW has improved markedly since BAA got on the bus, really shocked at LGW the last time I went through it at such a huge change.

Couldn't agree more - it's almost (almost!) a pleasure to use LGW now and they certainly seem to be more focused on getting air travel right rather than converting airports into shopping centres with a few planes parked up at the back of the shops as an afterthought. If this is in an indication of what can happen in a fairly short space of time, good luck to STN after the divorce.

[canberra97]

And the very same Sir Norman Foster (now Lord Foster ) who designed the rather more attractive terminal at Stansted.

Luton is a big tin shed and as I often drive from Southampton to fly from STN, I never ever give LTN a look in even if the flights were cheaper it is a horrible airport, it always has been and it always will be!

[compton3bravo]

All I can say Canberra97 you must have money to burn if you drive from Southampton to Stansted - or is it on company expenses. Surely you must be able to use Gatwick or Heathrow or maybe you are flying to some airport miles from anywhere. Some 9.5 million passengers cannot be wrong about Luton just like 70 odd million cannot be wrong about Ryanair.

[Buster the Bear]

"Luton is a big tin shed and as I often drive from Southampton to fly from STN, I never ever give LTN a look in even if the flights were cheaper it is a horrible airport, it always has been and it always will be!"

I get fed up with saying "bears are stupid!"

So no link this summer to the Faroe Islands?

Whoever takes on Bishop Stortford International, will have to take on the massive might that is....................L....Gatwick! Shed loads of investment going on there.

[pamann]

Here go the precious Luton'ites! :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more... Will avoid 'Bedfordshire International' where ever possible. Gatwick has also come on a treat since the sale and is a pleasure to use. Stansted is great too now it's a little quieter and actually takes me the same time from where I live in London at Gatwick does so a thumbs up from me. :ok:

[VIKING9]

As I said many times before, Luton Airport has always been a building site and by the looks of it, always will be.

I first worked there in 1981 and building works to improve the roads, terminal etc were happening then. I'd say it was probably a more efficient airport in those days than what it is now.

It has a road system that is at best, flawed. It has a terminal that looks like a tin shed. Not enough car parking. I could go on....

Exactly what has improved since the 80's apart from aircraft movement levels ?

At least with Stansted, they built effectively a new airport which works well, looks good, has plenty of car parking space. I admit, not enough airlines use it but hopefully with a new owner that is not stuck in the dark ages (BAA), the promotion of the airport will take off (excuse the pun).

[pabely]

But Luton still bucks the trend, while other airports are in negatives, it still holds it's own! God, wouldn't things have been different if a few £100M was spend in Beds rather than Herts?:eek:

[daz211]

Herts ??? think you mean Essex :ugh:.

[mikkie4]

Bishops stortford is in hertfortshire,stansted is in essex!!!!!

[pabely]

Yep, exactly my point (if indirectly), having a dig at local councils & local press, Bishops Stortford, Ware etc vs Stevenage & Welwyn Garden City. The East is quite happy with the benefits of a major investment next door whereas the West is in uproar!
Sorry, not a dig at STN directly , I think we have debated that once or twice!:rolleyes:

[LTNman]

At least with Stansted, they built effectively a new airport which works well, looks good, has plenty of car parking space. I admit, not enough airlines use it but hopefully with a new owner that is not stuck in the dark ages (BAA), the promotion of the airport will take off (excuse the pun).

Let’s get this straight, Stansted is a far superior airport than Luton. It has facilities and space that Luton can only dream of but for an airport that has cost a fortune to build it would only have around 2 million passengers per year using it if it was not for Ryanair.

Stansted and Ryanair and linked by an umbilical cord. Ryanair are stuck at Stansted due to its size and Stansted are stuck with Ryanair. Maybe that is Stansted’s problem and why other airlines are queuing up to move out.

The truth is, what ever people here might think, is that Luton is far more successful than Stansted as Luton is almost at capacity while Stansted is half empty.

[davidjohnson6]

LTNman - I don't follow your reasoning. Frankfurt is very dependent on Lufthansa and operates below capacity. Luton is not dependent on a single airline and has fewer passengers than Frankfurt. Why is Luton more successful than just Stansted ? If it was then Luton would be deemed more succesful than Frankfurt.

Assuming BAA sell Stansted in before 2015, its good times will return

[daz211]

The truth is, what ever people here might think, is that Luton is far more successful than Stansted as Luton is almost at capacity while Stansted is half empty.

I must point out that it is easier to fill a tea cup than it is to fill a pint glass but to me half a pint is always better than an almost full cup of tea :ok:.

It is not Stansted nor its location that see's it half empty or half full it is just the fact that BAA have ran the Airport to the ground in the hope that the only Airlines left would be FR/EZY so they can say its a low cost airport and not in compatition with any other Airport.

I look forward to the day when every Ryanair A/C reads
BYE BYE BAA.

[pabely]

So BAA are looking for very small Sale price because all that is left is RYR/EZY, doesn't sound like a good return on investment for the shareholders....would they not want the maximum ROI if being forced to sell?

[daz211]

You miss the point !

They didnt want to sell it so made it look none competative and in doing so hoped the gamble of stripping down would pay off...

Now I understand what you are saying but if BAA wanted to sell and get a good price why didnt BAA offer Airlines massive reductions and insentives to come to Stansted full it up and sell ?

The fact is BAA dont want to let STN go and are willing to try anything to save it, Even running it to the ground, Stansted has room where others dont and BAA want it for keeps.

[LTNman]

So why do many people here think Stansted’s future prosperity will only come about if BAA go. Without the might of the BAA and its ability to keep Stansted going over the years with the profits from Heathrow Stansted would never have had the good times. Now that Stansted has to stand on its own two feet the good times are over.

Is it the feeling here that Stansted needs another cash cow provider that can plough money into this airport for charitable reasons by offering free landing slots? The infrastructure is fine so what does a new owner need to do to get the airport back on its feet apart from offering loss making big discounts?

[daz211]

No not by offering loss making big discounts just offering realistic operating costs :rolleyes:.

What you need to concider is why Airlines have left Stansted ?
I was'nt due to poor transport links or the lack of good infrastructure so it must have been the operating costs.

[daz211]

Back to propper news :}.

Anyone know who the new big hanger is for going up next to Titan ?

[canberra97]

I fly from STN to destinations otherwise not flown from either LHR or LGW although I have to admit my flights recently have not involved STN but more so LGW but I find flying through STN a far more enjoyable experience with its nice terminal, etc, it is exactly 123 miles from my drive to the long term car park at STN and if I leave at approx 3 am for a 06.30 flight I can be at STN within 1.45 hours, I have done the journey in 1.25 mins before but I won't be letting on as to how fast I was driving, it can take just as long to drive to LGW from Southampton although LHR is only 50 mins drive up the M3.

[LTNman]

canberra97 wrote

I fly from STN to destinations otherwise not flown from either LHR or LGW

You shouldn’t be ashamed to say you fly Ryanair

it is exactly 123 miles from my drive to the long term car park at STN

Only 95 miles to Luton

I find flying through STN a far more enjoyable experience with its nice terminal,

No one is going to disagree that that flying out of a half empty terminal is not going to be anything other than a good experience but it wasn’t that long ago that people here were moaning about how long it was taking to get through security and the time it was taking to collect luggage. Ahh I remember now, that was when Stansted was used by more passengers.


Dazz211 wrote



No not by offering loss making big discounts just offering realistic operating costs


So what is a realistic operating cost and how does a new operator achieve it apart from job reductions and wages cuts?

[daz211]

So what is a realistic operating cost and how does a new operator achieve it apart from job reductions and wages cuts?

Realistic operating cost are cost that make a profit but on a smaller margin ill make it simple for you £1 profit is still a profit but £10 profit is driving Airlines away so lower your profit margin to £5 profit or even £3 profit you are still making a profit.

It make better business sence to make £5 from lots of Airlines than it does making £10 of a hand full of Airlines.

Now once your Airport is full you can start looking at your margins as demand grows which it will after all there wont be much room out there in 10 years or so you can start operating a supply and demand stratergy

There is only one reason Airlines left stansted to go to LGW and LTN and it is all down to cost but dont forget lowering cost is not always a smooth ride AirAsiaX and AirBerlin had a far better time at STN than at LGW

I am not saying this and this alone will turn STN back into a Full and sought after Airfield but as the people of LGW know under new management the job cuts and restructuring will come and although this will be bad news for alot of Airport workers you just need to look how LGW has turned round as an Airport with job cuts and restructuring.

[adfly]

I can agree with you on Air Berlin although Nuremburg seems to just aboout be holding its own but Air Asia X would have left regardless of the airport as it was due to their longer routes nothing cheaper enough compared to the competition. Add in the Government diving into the pockets of every passenger they carry with apd and the EU who have their 'carbon trading tax' or whatever it is called and it's not hard to see why they pulled out of LON and their other longer markets. It was down to them not having a large enough price difference to warranty a poorer on board product vs Malaysia Airlines and the Middle East big 3, not because they changed airports!

[daz211]

Agree on AirasiaX but what I was trying to get across on that one was if AirasiaX had stopped the route whilst at STN everyone would have blamed STN for the loss of the route.

I think AirBerlin should have stayed at STN they were doing very well and only left because of pricing issues and wanting to join an Airline "team" they seem to have lost their way trying to be something they are not and forgot they are a low cost airline.

[VC10man]

I live near Derby, but my last 2 flights have been from Stansted. Although it is a long way to travel, I like Stansted.
I have to say that EMA is turning into a dump, I hate the place, drop off and pickup are poor, you can be on the plane for ages waiting for the stairs, walking in the open, queuing to get through passport control.
I went from Luton a few years ago, what a dump.
I hope Stansted gets more airlines, they deserve to.

[daz211]

What STN needs is for one of the Low cost Airlines Ryanair, Easyjet,
Southwest, Jetblue ect... to start daily Transatlantic flights to the Airport.

The onward destinations are endless both sides of the pond.

Airlines need to understand that passengers needs have changed and a growing amount of passengers dont mind not having interlined baggage or having one ticket to the final destinaton.

Ryanair has seen a big rise in the number of passengers from the USA traveling to SUN destinations, on my last two flights to from STN-ACE and STN-LPA there were a large amount of Americans and Canadians, and on my last BUF-LAS flight there were a hell of a lot of people from the UK on our Southwest flight.

Im not saying it is going to happen, Im just saying it would work even if the flights were not much less than the normal flag carriers, there is far to many people wanting to discover Europe and the States on a budget.

[compton3bravo]

Probably those Americans and Canadians going to the Canaries live and work in the South East Daz211. Transatlantic services never have or never will succeed at Stansted unfortunately. You will always get plenty of ´Europeans´ going to the US but as I have said before practically all Americans want to fly into London Heathrow or Gatwick. They haven´t a clue where Stansted or even Manchester is and you try informing them where it is and how reasonably easy it is to get to Central London.
I do not include regular Business and US travellers but mainly the once in a lifetime type who leave American shores.

[racedo]

Airlines need to understand that passengers needs have changed and a growing amount of passengers dont mind not having interlined baggage or having one ticket to the final destinaton.

You don't have interlined baggage transitting US airports as you need to collect and go through customs which is why see using Stansted flying to the US as a great opportunity.

Forecast its about 2 years max away as still recession everywhere but next year start coming out and then opportunity for growth will be there.

[davidjohnson6]

daz - would be great if that happens, but nobody seems to have been able to come up with a business plan that has cheap transatlantic flights from London and still makes money. Sun Country don't seem to be flying this year. After the failures of Eos, Silverjet and Maxjet, the 800 lb gorillas in the form of BA, Virgin, American, Delta and United are just too scary.

[daz211]

I dont agree thousands of passenger only discovered places in Europe through look at Ryanairs website and only traveled to those destination because the route was opened.

So the same would happen if say London Stansted showed on the JetBlue website or if La Guardia New York showed up on the Ryanair Website people would travel on the routes.

As for saying transatlantic routes would never work at STN i strongly disagree, AA worked very well, CO also worked very well, The only reason MAXJET and EOS failed was due to the Bully boys AA & BA teaming up and opening a AA Route to New York to push MAXJET and EOS out of business and as soon as they done that AA pulled out.

If anything it shows that Transatlantic would work from STN as people were willing to pay that bit more on MAX and EOS and also filling up the AA flights, AA/BA were so worried about MAX and EOS that was the only reason AA returned to STN and closed the route only to get the passengers back to LHR ... You dont need to be a "boffin" to figure that one out.

[commit aviation]

What makes you think that lower operating costs would bring in more airlines?? Who makes the loudest noises about charges at STN? Ryanair! Lower costs = potentially more Ryanair & I suspect they would use their already dominant position to ensure nobody else got a foothold there. I've said before MOL is the first to scream about monopoly abuse but he isn't averse to having a monolpolistic position himself! To be fair - he would say thats good business / survival of the fitest etc. & almost certainly has a point.
Airports are not charities: they have to make money too. Is it better to have an airport which is under utilised & makes money or a packed airport where the charges are too low & so the place loses money?
Scenario: Regional airport in Europe has taken the RYR route to rapid expansion . After 18 months or so the other airlines have been pushed from the picture or have a reduced ability to compete. Back comes Ryanair wanting an extension to the initial start up deal or they are off. Airport now virtually dependant on FR finds it has limited options if it wants to keep the business but also finds with less airlines paying "normals" charges they are now losing money! It can be a poison chalise!
Now STN is not a regional airport by any means but equally it is not & never will be LHR. LHR is the UK hub and a different beast altogether.
I have no doubts that STN outside the BAA would also be a different beast to what it is now & may take a different approach. I am certain MOL would come in looking for a "deal" & an offer to increase the number of based airframes to get the place busy again. He has already alluded to it if I recall. Some new owners may jump at that possibility. Others maybe not. I'm thinking MAPLC had a bit of a run in over charges to prevent exactly this situation developing at MAN.
I for one am not convinced that lower charges are necessarily the panacea that cures all ills for STN.

[racedo]

Daz

The Stansted-USA via SNN to me probably is the best opportunity provided Irish Govt plays ball with taxes using SNN as the hub from across Europe. Direct back to Stansted is always possible and using aircraft to feed back to SNN.

Using this avoids APD across the pond and also enable US Immigration and Customs to be cleared in SNN, potentially saving lost time at SNN versus direct.

Naysayers will claim adds hours more to journey but no worse than the hours going via LHR which is the norm and the hours queueing when arriving.

Priced a LHR - NYC for July for 4 and its £1,750, booking a SNN (UK)-US for £1,250 which includes a voucher for flight from UK to SNN including 2 bags at any time so getting family to SNN in time for flight makes it a done deal.

[Falcon666]

Daz211
You may well be correct in thinking a transatlantic route would help STN but low cost leaves us asking will it happen any time soon given Air Asias recent decision stating taxes in Europe.
Just cant help thinking the might of Ryanair at STN prevents airlines starting up routes.
For example would Atlas,Turkish and Pegasus and others hang around if Ryanair attacked their turkish routes or North Cyprus.It will be interesting if LTN gets the expansion it wants to see which airlines would increase based units there.
They obviously see this as a chance to get on a more level playing field. as STN under a different operator and half utilised could see a exodus back to the Essex side.
LTN needs to get the cutomer experience right where STN has the advantage right now.

[compton3bravo]

Gentleman - the buyer of Stansted whoever it is wants a return on its investment and profits for its shareholders. I would suggest the fees that the LoCos are charged at the moment are not particularly high and personally cannot see the new owners wanting to reduce them en masse.
Also most people in the US have never heard of Ryanair or easyJet so if you put them into the booking systems of US carriers they would be scratching their heads and saying who are these guys!

[racedo]

Also most people in the US have never heard of Ryanair or easyJet so if you put them into the booking systems of US carriers they would be scratching their heads and saying who are these guys!

That depends on what your target market is, as most people in the US don't have a passport. However those who travel do know about various airlines and if the opportunity to save $250 or more on a fare they would know very quickly.

Using same basis Laker would not have taken off in US before the Cartel destroyed him.

I think the old using route profitability from elsewhere to destroy Laker isn't going to happen as the LCCs have that profitability more so than the legacy carriers.

[LTNman]

Does Stansted have any scheduled airlines that are full service airlines and not a low cost operator?

Anyone here heard the rumour about another airline that is moving out of Stansted but this time to Luton for the summer?

[canberra97]

I can only assume Cyprus Airways are the only full service carrier left at STN.

If only STN still had

PK to Islamabad
AA to New York JFK
CO/UA to Newark

and possibly

EK to Dubai
TS to Toronto

Add those destinations to the those that have gone or to the airlines that have left STN it would be a good network of routes, who ever buys STN must attract new airlines and especially a major long haul airline like EK.

[LTNman]

I think EL AL was also at Stansted for a while before they moved to Bedforshire.

[Navpi]

One aspect of these arguments not mentioned is the fact that the decision to expand STN was made 20 years ago to serve capacity restrictions in the SE.

It simply filled up as the Locost boom came along, right airport at the right time !

..... BUT the inescapable fact remains not one mainline legacy carrier has moved from either LHR OR LGW and made a success of STN.

It also throws into Q the building of another airport in the SE, there is little point UNLESS you close LHR and force airlines to move !

[pabely]

If this goes through, what fallout for STN?

[flysx]

Navpi, to be fair airlines moving out of LHR are generally on their knees whether they move to another airport or not ie Malev, Lithuanian, BWIA.

I don't think there have been any full service switching between STN & LGW recently, Atlantic aside - there were quite a few in the 90s but that's a long time ago now.

There have been examples of sustained legacy carriers at STN in addition to LHR service - CSA, Cyprus, El Al, KTHY all 15 years plus.

If you're talking sustainable, Aegean would easily fit in that category...3 daily A321, two class, great loads. But essentially it was just waiting for slots at LHR which does back up your other argument - LHR would have to shut to make any new airport work.

[talk english]

whilst sitting in sat 1 yesterday several suits were seen walking around with delta on their hi vis.Anything to do with the rumour that they are pulling out of gatwick?

[Charley B]

Think DL are going to LHR from LGW in April-possibly what you saw may have been to do with the Somali conference in London today-the USA visitors may have arrived in STN with DL..... a few came into LGW yesterday .

[LGS6753]

You Essex guys are obviously desperately craving some positive news, so here it is:

Iceland Express will be returning to STN this summer, operating to Reykjavik on Tue & Fri from 22nd June. That route will be crowded with WOW on Wed/Fri/Sun and EZY from Luton on Tue/Thu/Sun.

Offsets all the bad news for STN like EZY going to Southend, Air Asia X and Air Berlin to Gatwick, etc.

Will pax numbers drop below 15 million this year?

[Throat]

Hi all,

Just had a 5min bit on local itv about BAWC moving to Manston. Any truth in this? sounded like pie in the sky to me!

[mikkie4]

someone said manston was up for sale

[racedo]

Ad on TV looks impressive enough

[ericlday]

Ad on TV looks impressive enough - what ad are you talking about Racedo ?

[racedo]

Eric

Wrong airport :O

[compton3bravo]

Down 4.9 per cent on Feb 2011 and with an extra day. The only BAA airport to show a decrease. Full details on the BAA website.

[LTNman]

Less passengers means a better airport experience for the remaining Stansted passengers which should create demand from them to use Stansted again.

[rowly6339]

Hi just a long shot but doe's anybody know who the carrier was for the mod on trouper flights to germany, stn to hannover around 2000/2002 (i remember red and white livery) and if they still fly out of stn these days. Thanks

[Aero Mad]

red and white livery

I've no idea but perhaps Air Berlin? They still operate out of STN today to Dusseldorf.

[Chidken Sangwich]

European B737-200 I'd have thought.

[Wycombe]

Rowly:

I believe it may have been British World (known as British Air Ferries in their earlier life) with their 146's and 1-11's.

I remember taking one, on a 1-11, from Stansted to RAF Bruggen a few years prior to the timeframe you mention.

[rowly6339]

Thanks guys, i do remember European in the name but can't remember the 3 letters on the tail

[sxflyer]

Crikey, those flights are a blast from the past!

Yes, British World operated them for some time but I'm sure I recall European taking over Hanover for a year or two until Air Berlin started up and of course Bruggen closed down as a base.

Thats got me reminiscing. STN also had the oil flights to Hassi Massaoud for a few years, again British World. There was also a private oil charter to Uralsk, I think with Eurofly and Malev. Anyone remember them? Both went off to Gatwick I think. There were often very few pax on the flights so on a per person basis tickets must have cost the charterers a bomb! I recall being parked next to the A310 of the Algerian airline taking Hassi on at LGW who's name escapes me and no more than 20 got off!

[sam dilly]

Timely comment from LTNman, earlier in this thread.

We have just had notification today from STN OPS that the transit system that connects the main terminal to satelites 1 + 2 is being closed for 12 weeks major maintenance from next Monday.
Wonderful timing, a quiet airport all winter, numbers down, starts to get busy again, and the great brains at the BAA close down a vital part of their passenger delivery system.
Why wasn't this work done in the quiet period ?
This will bring chaos to Stansted and its few remaining 'good' clients.
What a shambles !:mad:

[wowzz]

Another nail in STN's coffin, just at SEN is opening up.
How many busses are going to be needed for the transit to the satelites ? The answer is twice as many as BAA will hire!

[pamann]

As per Thomas Cook thread, Stansted getting an A321 for this coming summer so an increase in seats from the usual A320 based unit. :ok:

[commit aviation]

My understanding is that the transit system is only being withdrawn after the morning departures each day to minimise disruption. I agree timing isn't great but I believe the issue has only just come to light & it was not felt appropriate to leave it until next winter.

[stuinn]

Saw Hong Kong Airlines plane at the airport this morning. Is this just due to a divert as I thought this went into Gatwick?

[STN Ramp Rat]

A fog diversion from Gatwick

[STN Ramp Rat]

Any more news on Aero Toy Store taking over the Diamond hanger?

[Hounddog1]

In one of the local newspapers last week, there is a news article talking about a new VIP flight centre and helicopter showroom that could be arriving before the Olympics, Eighteen Aviation Limited, which owns a vacant hanger and offices on the southern side of the airport, have submitted planning application to Uttlesford District Council in the hope of transforming their buildings to offer services to the rich and famous.
Previously a European aircraft maintenance centre, Diamond Hanger would not only offer hospitality for VIP's arriving and departing in helicoptors and private jets, it would provide sales space for visitors to buy their own private aircraft and vehicles, as well as rent them for the day.
A spokesman for Eighteen Aviation said the plan would create up to 50 jobs, potentially growing to 100.

Hope this helps,

[Heathrow Harry]

the Olympics are 110 days away and these people have "put in for planning permission" - they have obviously never dealt with a Planning Authority before

might have approval in time for the next Londoin Olympics in 2200

[Hounddog1]

Only writing what is written in paper - if it is Aero Toy Store, i would have thought they would have researched the time scale in this country for planning permission - but you never know ..

[LGS6753]

Icelandic airline Wow are discounting all their STN flights by 40%. Makes you wonder whether they will be able to compete against EZY at Luton and Icelandair, starting at Gatters.

[Tranceaddict]

Icelandic airline Wow are discounting all their STN flights by 40%. Makes you wonder whether they will be able to compete against EZY at Luton and Icelandair, starting at Gatters.

And Iceland Express returning to STN in June

[pamann]

Same could also be said about easy being able to ward off the competition down the road from London's 3rd airport or will the likes of WOW and Iceland Express dilute traffic at London's 4th bus shelter... Sorry I meant airport of course! Works both ways... Time will tell of course. :O

[compton3bravo]

Apparently the bookings on easy are very good and the company have announced that the service will operate year round, but as you say only time will tell. At least it seems to be a rather busy bus shelter!

[STN Ramp Rat]

My understanding is that the transit system is only being withdrawn after the morning departures each day to minimise disruption. I agree timing isn't great but I believe the issue has only just come to light & it was not felt appropriate to leave it until next winter.

I arrived at Stansted this afternoon and now have firsthand experience of the TTS bus replacement service. It all seems to work well BUT instead of dropping you at the normal coaching point you are driven halfway down the Ryanair pier and dropped at a vacant gate. This means you have to walk all the way back into the terminal as if you had just arrived on a Ryanair flight. It also means that all arriving passengers now have to pass by the off duty Ryanair crew flogging “cheap” stansted express tickets.... they must be loving it, I wonder if MoL set the entire thing up so he can sell to the every arriving passenger and not just his own :ok:

[LGS6753]

Stansted baggage handlers to strike over Easter - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9173906/Stansted-baggage-handlers-to-strike-over-Easter.html)

[wowzz]

According to Simon Calder [!!!!] on the BBC News [surely there must be another travel journalist in the UK] Ryanair have said that they will not carry ANY hold baggage in or out of STN whilst the dispute is on, so as to minimise disruption.
Can anyone clarify if this is the case?

[The96er]

According to Simon Calder [!!!!] on the BBC News [surely there must be another travel journalist in the UK] Ryanair have said that they will not carry ANY hold baggage in or out of STN whilst the dispute is on, so as to minimise disruption.
Can anyone clarify if this is the case?

And who's going to push the aircraft back from the gate ?

[pabely]

So if you have paid RYR £X to have your hold baggage to go from A to B, aren't they liable if to doesn't?

[davidjohnson6]

pabely - could you imagine Ryanair making passengers jump through a series of hoops to get the money paid as baggage charges refunded ?
Send a letter off to Dublin to get a special form which must be filled in, along with a special stamped piece of paper that you were given at checkin to confirm baggage wasn't being accepted, to a premium rate fax number. Then wait for an email to which you must reply within 48 hours. Once this is done, money will be refunded to your payment card within 8 weeks.
The result being that only 1% of baggage charges actually end up being refunded, and FR get to keep the rest..... :yuk:

[racedo]

DJ

Wouldn't be so sure on that one as the luggage wasn't carried and think FR would refund quite easily.

Bearing in mind that numbers carrying luggage is only 10-15% then its really not that many involved.

[STN Ramp Rat]

According to Simon Calder [!!!!] on the BBC News [surely there must be another travel journalist in the UK] Ryanair have said that they will not carry ANY hold baggage in or out of STN whilst the dispute is on, so as to minimise disruption.
Can anyone clarify if this is the case?

that is what most low cost carriers do in these circumstances

And who's going to push the aircraft back from the gate ?

Swissport will have management teams in from around the country and possibly from Europe, unfortunately the strike will fail as there will be no delays. The Media will be on the side of the passenger and I am sure that Ryanair are very supportive of Swissport trying to keep their costs under control so the GMB can’t even reply on pressure from them.

[cjhants]

I know the ramp staff have to work hard, often in very unpleasant conditions, for a wage many would not consider worth getting out of bed for.

That said, the GMB should, perhaps, look back to LHR in 2004, where Swissport closed down their operation overnight, when they could not get an agreement with the unions (OK - I know there were other factors as well, and I have not got time to go into detail now, but that is the short version).

The ramp staff turned up for the early shift, only to find their passes had been cancelled, and they were out of a job. The handling contracts were shared around the remaning handlers. I`m not saying Swissport STN are in the same position, but the GMB need to be sure their members will still have a job at the finish of this dispute.

[compton3bravo]

According to the BAA website Stansted passengers were down 4.7 per cent in March and that is before the three easyJet 319s were moved to operate from Southend.

[sunday8pm]

I don't think the situation at STN will improve under BAA ownership - like many others they only care about LHR. Maybe if/when MAG buy it things will get better as they'll make a big push to impact on the London market.

[pamann]

Stansted calls upon Government to slash rail journey times to 30mins and boost economy

Stansted: Stansted calls upon Government to slash rail journey times to 30mins and boost economy (http://www.stanstedairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/stansted-calls-upon-government-to-slash-rail-journey-times-to-30mins-and-boost-economy)

[STN Ramp Rat]

Without wishing to deviate from the aviation theme of PPrune......

The railway line between London and Cambridge is at maximum capacity south of Broxbourne. It has to accommodate

1. Stansted Express trains.
2. Fast service to Cambridge
3. Slow service to Cambridge
4. Services to Hertford East
5. Slow services to Broxbourne.

The only way that this will be resolved is to “four track” the line from Broxbourne to Liverpool Street. I am sure that if this was seriously considered the people who’s houses would have to be demolished to accommodate the additional tracks would be setting up a campaign all of their own. Nice try but there is more chance of linking Stansted airport to Braintree by rail than four tracking this section.

[Keyvon]

EZY is to cease yet another route from Stansted : Tallinn will disappear by the end of the summer schedule and moved to Gatwick.

[Aero Mad]

Look, I've never worked for BAA or GIP and am merely an observer of British aviation. However, I do feel that if the former company wants Stansted to be a successful airport and not to lag behind its southerly counterparts in terms of growth then it really needs to get off its backside and stop working off the rash assumption that it still has the monopoly over London's airports as it did a few years ago. The fact is that Gatwick under previous ownership was blighted with similar problems and is now flourishing under the investment programme of GIP. If BAA at Stansted was more prepared to invest in both the airport's infrastructure and its image then they would probably see the kind of growth which LGW is currently experiencing.

Obviously location is an issue but really, if they made the 'airport experience' (trendy term but certainly justifiable in this case) more pleasant as well as not allowing quite so much Ryanisation then they might do rather well. To hemorrhage routes and frequency to Gatwick and Southend (and I'm talking about more than just U2 here) is not at all good for Stansted and apparently eternal stagnation at that airport has got to stop if BAA wants growth.

[LGS6753]

Will EZY withdraw from STN?


Routes transferred to Gatwick
Three units moved to SEN
New N London routes from Luton, not STN


....and BAA not interested in STN at present.

[pabely]

Not long term but short term why bother? Once a new owner comes along then it might be a new ball game.

[davidjohnson6]

Why would BAA be interested in Stansted ? They have a legal requirement to sell STN, which is being held off only by virtue of judicial review applications that rely on BAA's claim that STN is a purely low cost airport (read Ryanair) while Heathrow aims at the higher end of the market and thus the 2 airports would never be in competition with each other. The last thing BAA would want is for Lufthansa or Air France to open a feeder route from STN to either Frankfurt or Paris, or heaven forbid, Delta opening a long haul route to somewhere like NY

Until the legal appeals process is exhausted and there is clarity over who will own STN long term, short term legal tactics will win out over any strategic growth and marketing.

[All-The-Nines]

Agree with what davidjohnson has said above - it is currently in BAA's interest not to attract new airlines because it will then make their appeals look unfounded.

However, it is a very sad state of affairs to watch the place diminish the way it has. I flew from Stansted a couple of weekends ago, approx 9am on a Sunday which is traditionally a very quiet time of day at the airport, even more so now with all of the cutbacks. I turned up with 90 minutes to spare knowing that it should be pretty quiet. Well, the terminal was very quiet overall, however they only had a handful of x-rays open and so we still queued for 25 minutes in the end and I then waited another 10 minutes for my bag to be hand searched by a miserable member of staff as there were 4 or 5 people in front of me waiting for the same! For an airport that can supposedly cater for double the amount of passengers that it is currently handling, it really isn't good enough for it to be such a mind numbing and slow experience.

I also witnessed a staff member threatening to 'phone the police' if one gentleman did not listen to the advice that his bag was over Ryanair's limit and that he'd have to go back to the check-in desk and pay for it to go as hold luggage. Basically he was just pleading that he was given the chance to 'give it a go' and that it was Ryanair's problem at the gate if it didn't meet the limits. Maybe someone in the know can tell me whether it is a security staff responsibility to enforce such rules, as I really don't know the answer to that one? Either way I think that the situation could have been much better handled than threatening to phone the police.

This year I've only braved Stansted once, despite only living a few miles away. It's a 50 mile journey to Gatwick for me, yet time and time again this year (5 or 6 trips so far) it throws up better choices, more airlines/destinations, and a nicer experience. It would appear that for the time being this will only get worse as Easyjet move aircraft to Southend and gradually move other routes to Gatwick.

[mikkie4]

SEN would be more than happy to take more flights from stansted/luton,alltogether a much nicer experience for the passenger

[LTNman]

Yeah they can sit in Southend's new terminal twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do as the new airport lacks retail outlets. Some might argue that this is not a problem but the shops and food outlets attract many passengers who are looking to pass some time.

[Aero Mad]

the new airport lacks retail outlets

Ahhh another SEN bash Mr Luton! What fun!

Now let me see... two Arnold and Forbes cafes (one landside and one airside), a WHSmith and another shop which sells a large range of the usual duty free suspects. And if you have a concentration span too short to withstand that, then there's even a viewing area to watch the aeroplanes from.

Not enough for you? Just because SEN is growing rather faster than LTN, you don't need to vent your frustrations on here - yet time and again you do. It is so resentful, so crass that frankly I'm not sure if anyone even listens anymore. You've probably never even visited SEN - if you had then you'd know that 'the shops and food outlets attract many passengers who are looking to pass some time'.

[Expressflight]

I would be interested to know what importance passengers really put on there being a good "shopping experience" when choosing a departure airport.

Personally I would rather choose somewhere which offers a speedy transit through the terminal so that I don't feel I need to arrive 90 minutes before departure just in case there are delays at security, or I have to wait 20 minutes for the car park bus. At SEN that speed of transit is available but when I use LTN or STN even I (and ask my wife how much I like shopping!) do find it relieves the boredom to browse in the numerous shops. But whether most other people appreciate the shops simply for that reason or see them as an essential part of the travel experience I really have no idea. I suspect research must have been carried out into that subject in the past.

SEN certainly offers sufficient retail to meet the basic needs of the traveller as Aero Mad says, but what I really appreciate there as opposed to LTN is that you can actually sit comfortably adjacent to the gates until your flight is called. Standing around for ages at the gate, or even worse on the stairs at LTN, is no fun in my book.

[VIKING9]

LTN - building site with a runway. Always has been, always will be.

I'll get my coat...:rolleyes:

[STN Ramp Rat]

how sad that a topic on Stansted AIRPORT has degenerated into the shopping channel. I know things are bad at Stansted but there must be something positive to talk about.

[STN Ramp Rat]

I know things are bad at Stansted but there must be something positive to talk about.


as if by magic

http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Dunmow-Stansted/Second-top-award-for-Stansted-Airport-23042012.htm

[TSR2]

“Excellent operational performance, world-class terminal facilities and great range of destinations are key factors for passengers when deciding their favourite airport. Thanks to our great track record in these areas, we are delighted and honoured to once again be globally recognised as a world-leading airport.”

Well there you have it. What's all the complaining about. Well done Stansted.

[LTNman]

You've probably never even visited SEN

Well I have and I liked it.

Nothing wrong with Southend and nothing wrong with Stansted. All I said was that many passengers like to look around the shops before departure which Stansted has many. Touchy lot those Southend folk. Sorry if I offended:confused:

[nt639]

LGS6753Will EZY withdraw from STN?


Routes transferred to Gatwick
Three units moved to SEN
New N London routes from Luton, not STN


....and BAA not interested in STN at present. Don't think the EasyJet CEO sees it that way Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9223790/EasyJet-chief-Carolyn-McCall-urges-Government-to-look-at-second-runway-at-Gatwick-or-Stansted-airports.html) , no mention of LTN though;)

[Keyvon]

Another scheduled airline leaves Stansted! Anadolujet seems to have suspended all flights to Ankara, by the end of April...

[LGS6753]

Iceland Express are now discounting their flights - all season - by 50%. Bookings must be struggling against EZY from Luton, who are increasing flights, and not discounting.

[sxflyer]

Anadolujet disappearing is a bit odd and a shame but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere else so at least on this occasion it appears to be the route not the airport.

But regardless, change of ownership can't come soon enough. I saw a report a couple of days ago that MAG are selling a major stake to Abu Dhabi to find a bid for STN. Sounds hopeful.

[Keyvon]

Airport is about to lose yet another airline : Bmibaby will cease its flights to Belfast City by mid-June.

[pamann]

Airport is about to lose yet another airline : Bmibaby will cease its flights to Belfast City by mid-June.

Along with BHX, EMA, BHD... BmiBaby are to be wound down... Not deserting STN. Any need to be posting doom and gloom messages when the BMI work force are in very difficult and uncertain times. Have some empathy for god sake!

I'm sure some posters get off on posting these messages. :=

[jdcg]

ESB always seems to struggle from the UK. Think BMed tried it for a while a way back. Huge Turkish community living around me here in NE London but I've not met any of them who come from Ankara. Pegasus seems to do well through Sabiha Gokcen airport and now Atlasjet will fly to IST. TK has launched LGW so the Turkish market is well served.

[STN Ramp Rat]

South Korean Operator May Buy Stansted: Airport International News (http://www.airport-int.com/news/south-korean-airport-operator-may-buy-stansted.html)

The dominant South Korean airport operations group has expressed interest in acquiring London Stansted Airport from BAA, according to information released on 14 May 2012.

The purchase, if it went ahead, would reduce the British Airport Authority's managed sites to four, after the sale of the former London Gatwick Airport in October 2009 and the more recent Edinburgh Airport sale.

According to comments made to news agency AFP by a representative from the Incheon International Airport Corporation, the operator is "watching with interest" and that applies not only to Stansted, but Glasgow Airport, too. "We also have an interest in other British airports to be put up for sale in the near future", the same figure added.

At one point, BAA owned no less than seven airports but was ordered by the Competition Commission to distribute its assets around, to make the UK airport scene a fairer place. A US organisation, GIP (Global Infrastructure Partners) now owns both Gatwick Airport and Edinburgh Airport.

South Korean Stansted Interest
The South Korean Stansted interest, meanwhile, seems to be related to Incheon's newly-expressed interest in developing an overseas portfolio, with foreign business only responsible for a fraction of its 2011 revenue. "Our overseas business since 2009 is only in its infancy", Incheon's representative explained to AFP. "We're mulling various plans to develop it including buying stakes in foreign airports or construction".

London Stansted Airport is the fourth-busiest in Britain, with 18.3 million passing through it in 2011. Incheon International Airport, meanwhile, is the largest in South Korea and it processed almost twice as many passengers in 2011. Three months ago, it was recognised by ACI as the world's best airport for customer service for the seventh consecutive year.

National carrier Korean Air has by far the largest airline presence at Incheon and the site has three runways, all of them over 12,000 feet long. This allows Incheon to handle the very largest commercial aircraft in service today, including Korean Air's fleet of Airbus A380s.

Whether Incheon International Airport Corporation intends to develop London Stansted remains to be seen but Airport International will present further coverage of this story as future facts emerge.

[STN Ramp Rat]

EBACE: Aero Toy Store prepares to open FBO at London Stansted (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ebace-aero-toy-store-prepares-to-open-fbo-at-london-stansted-371909/)

[pabely]

That is a big space for only spending £2M refurb. I assume the facility itself cost them a bit more?

[LTNman]

Also a very tall hangar just for business jets.

[dc9-32]

LTNMAN

B747's, B777's, A330's - not all biz jets are small :=

[egnxema]

Was in STN terminal at various times Monday & Tuesday this week. It struck me how quiet it is compared to 5 years ago. Not just fewer people, but so many empty in branded check in desks. And there is an increasing air of gloom and shabbiness about the place - the newly installed safety nets hanging from the ceiling add to the run down appearance.

I hope that the airport is sold swiftly to new owners. The transformation of LGW is remarkable since leaving BAA. It would be good to see STN become a cared for facility once again.

[Skipness One Echo]

the newly installed safety nets hanging from the ceiling add to the run down appearance.
Why??? What?

[carbootking]

Heathrow humbled: Olympics stars run a mile from official Games airport
Hundreds of athletes and coaches forced to use Stansted

Crisis: Queues at Heathrow Terminal 5
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Matthew Beard

16 May 2012

Hundreds of Olympic athletes and coaches will be forced to leave London from Stansted rather than Heathrow because the official Games gateway cannot cope with the rush.

Major teams, said to include Canada, China and Australia, are booking private charter flights from the Essex airport after the closing ceremony, the Standard has learned.

The moves come after Colin Matthews, the chief executive of Heathrow’s owner BAA, admitted that Britain’s only hub had just 15 years to secure more space for flights or suffer the humiliation of demotion from the world’s airport “Premier League”.

It is a blow to the airport and comes as the Government faces growing pressure to address the lack of space for expansion at Heathrow. About one in 10 of the 10,500 athletes competing at London 2012 is expected to leave from Stansted.

The airport, which handles 70 million passengers a year, is expected to be full to bursting on 13 August, the day after

the closing ceremony, when 50,000 competitors, coaches and officials will vie with regular passengers to catch flights out of London.

It is highly unusual for charter flights after the Games to depart from anywhere other than the official Olympic airport.

A spokesman for BAA said: “We made the decision not to accommodate charter planes or private jets during the Games period to ensure our scheduled flights timetable can be protected during this extremely challenging time. 80 per cent of all Games passengers will pass through Heathrow which already operates at 99.2 per cent capacity.”

A Stansted spokesman said: “On arrival they will come in dribs and drabs but on departure you will get whole teams in one or two charters.

“We are definitely ready to enable teams to depart here. It’s no loss of prestige for Heathrow because they get 80 per cent of the Games family. Any airports would be happy with that although they might be nervous about the challenge.

“[Stansted is] a good alternative and you are not parking someone on the south coast or sending them to Manchester.”

The Greek government built a new £2 billion airport in Athens in time for the 2004 Games while the Chinese authorities ordered the construction of the world’s biggest passenger terminal in Beijing — designed by British architect Lord Foster — ahead of the 2008 Olympics at a cost of about £2.3 billion.

By contrast Heathrow has spent just £20 million gearing up for the Games — much of which is being spent on an “Olympic terminal” for just three days after the Games.

Other measures include hundreds of extra Border Force staff to reduce immigration queues; 1,300 volunteers to meet VIPs off their flights and chaperone them through terminals and new flexible rules on runway use allowing planes to take off and land using the same runway.

But the sheer volume of extra traffic means BAA is already diverting 10,000 flights to other airports over the summer and has banned charter and private flights completely during the Games.

That means VIPs on private jets will head to Stansted’s private north terminal. Megastar athletes such as the multi-millionaires of the US Olympic basketball team, swimming legend Michael Phelps and tennis star Roger Federer are all expected to fly into Essex.

There are no current plans to link the Essex airport to Stratford using Olympic-only road lanes. However it is thought departing teams would be entitled to a police escort to accompany them along the M11.



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[Fairdealfrank]

Expand LHR, do it now!

[LTNman]

I spent a few hours today in a village about a mile or so from the end of Stansted’s runway. Most of the departures I had a good view of apart from when I was inside. So excluding Ryanair what did I see? Just 2 aircraft and not a single biz jet. Without Ryanair BAA would be sweeping the runway daily to keep the tumbleweed at bay.

No wonder Stansted will no doubt become the Olympics airport as it is the only London Airport out of the big 4 running at half capacity. Really don't know why it has gone wrong for this airport as it has so much to offer.

[Aero Mad]

Really don't know why it has gone wrong for this airport

Come on LTNman, you know as well as I do. The problem is BAA running the place - they have no interest in it given that they are being forced to sell up and they already own the proverbial cherry on the cake at LHR.

[LTNman]

I don’t buy that answer. The busier the place the more money they would get so it is not in BAA’s interest to run the place down.

[STN Ramp Rat]

it is not in BAA’s interest to run the place down.

yes it is for two reasons

1) The entire BAA argument for not selling stansted was that it did not compete with Heathrow as they served two entirely different markets. Heathrow is a full service airport with a transfer product and Stansted is a low cost point to point airport. Any sign of any full service carriers showing interest in Stansted would have to be discouraged to avoid undermining their argument

2) They are not likely to invest significant amounts of money in an asset they may be forced to sell possibly at a knock down price. I understand that even the staff uniforms are unbranded now in the expectation of a sale.

[STN Ramp Rat]

This story is mischief making by the Evening Standard.

The London bid was always going to be a “low cost” sustainable bid and, If I recall correctly, the bid document said that no new airport capacity was required or would be offered (I am willing to be corrected on this).

From a very early stage the BAA said Heathrow was not available for ad-hoc flights or biz flights and that there were other airports in the London area available to take this traffic. To be honest if you had a closed group from East London why would you go to Heathrow it would take twice the time it takes to get to Stansted. Maybe the headline should be “Olympic teams decide to use more convenient airport” but that would not be as good a story

[commit aviation]

Apparently the court of Appeal has given BAA permission to appeal against the competition Appeal Tribunals judgement from 1st Feb.

Not much more coming from "official" channels (they won't be allowed to comment) but any idea what the timescales might be?
All this continued indecision can't be good for the place.
No doubt the board will have their tin hats on and be standing by for incoming from MOL / Ryanair :E

[carousel]

The netting is a temp measure while the roof glazing is being replaced, aparentley nobody wants to see pax or staff (even security staff) sliced in half by an oop's moment.:D

[Leatherman]

Like in the movie The Excorcist? 1. 2 OR 3 I can't remember which?:ugh::rolleyes:

[stuinn]

Saw this aircraft this afternoon at Stansted. Is it a regular new service as never seen it before?

[LGS6753]

Yes, it's new.
Take a good look, because I can't see Wow staying on this route for long...

[pabely]

Simple example public choice. Think, I fancy going to Iceland, you will search the big names first. Easyjet have very good figures from Luton whereas WOW do not from Stansted. Nothing about LTN v STN. If EZY would have run it from STN (like Go did) it would be just as good.

[Hollymead]

You have missed out Iceland Express from STN in your 'big names first' list . Starts in a couple of weeks .

[pabely]

Iceland Express only bookable until August so is this a long term service or overflow from Gatwick?

[sxflyer]

pabely, how do you know wow don't have good figures from STN? I'm not doubting you, would just be interested to hear what figures you have.

Iceland Express is just at STN for the Icelandic peak season. I am however extremely nervous about their long term prospects - the high number of promotions they've been running lately with immediate departure dates says to me they need cash now.

Knowing the market well as a regular traveller, right now I'd put money on Wow being here for the 'longer' term.

[pabely]

sxflyer - only the word on the street but time will tell.

[STN Ramp Rat]

Cheung Kong Close To Deal With Manchester Airport Group- Report | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/06/24/cheung-kong-close-to-deal-with-manchester-airport-group-report/)


Hong Kong's Cheung Kong Infrastructure Holdings Ltd. (1038.HK), controlled by Asia's richest man, Li Ka-shing, is closing in on a deal to have a stake in a joint venture with Manchester Airports Group, the Sunday Times reported without citing sources.

If successful, this would be CKI's first foray into the airports sector. Its other transport investments include toll roads and bridges.

MAG owns U.K. airports in Manchester, East Midlands, Bournemouth and Humberside, and wants to raise up to GBP1 billion to fund a bid for Stansted airport, the report said.

It said MAG wants to set up a new joint venture with a new investor, though this is conditional on MAG making a successful bid for Stansted.

The Sunday Times said the joint-venture partner would get a 35% stake in the venture, comprising the assets of MAG and Stansted.

To sweeten the deal, the investor would also get 50% of the voting rights, the report said.

Australian infrastructure fund Industry Funds Management is also interested in the planned joint venture, the report said.

Spokespersons for MAG and CKI couldn't be immediately reached for comment.

Read more: Cheung Kong Close To Deal With Manchester Airport Group- Report | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/06/24/cheung-kong-close-to-deal-with-manchester-airport-group-report/#ixzz1yjUjzMs7)

[Mlinnie]

Ryanair to start Stansted-Maastricht (Netherlands) this December

[gazpodel]

Just noticed two un-usual movements due to STN today, one for olympic air from athens, (OA2260) and Tirana (LBY555 - already landed @ 08:15).

I would imagine that these are not regular movements, but charter flight's, associated with the olympics games in London?

[Falcon666]

Tirana has been a regular for the summer- twice daily on a Sunday for a couple of weeks.

[carousel]

You would be right. The US of A arrive today as well
:D

[STN Ramp Rat]

The latest round of a battle over the sale of Stansted Airport took off at the Court of Appeal today.

Three judges in London are being asked to rule in a challenge brought by airport operator BAA.

In 2009 the Competition Commission (CC) ruled that BAA must sell Stansted in Essex and two of its other UK airports.

BAA has mounted a series of legal challenges against the decision, which have so far been unsuccessful.

The latest blow to Spanish-owned BAA came earlier this year when it lost an appeal before the Competition Appeal Tribunal.

Today’s action is before Lord Justice Mummery, Lord Justice Rimer and Lord Justice Sullivan.

Since the CC decision, BAA has sold Gatwick Airport in West Sussex and faced with having to dispose of either Edinburgh Airport or Glasgow Airport, it has opted to sell Edinburgh.

[Falcon666]

BBC News - BAA loses latest appeal against Stansted sale (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19001159)

So now what??

[ericlday]

Falcon666 ''So now What ? ''........get it on the market and get it sold !!!!

[Falcon666]

ericlday,
Agreed , but that just sounds way too easy!.
Are there any more options left for BAA to disrupt the inevitable?

[thegoaf]

It is about time that BAA realised that it is an unwanted, unloved and irrelevant outfit. IMHO the word customer is never mentioned in any sort of mangement meeting there. Monopoly exploitation is probably the only agenda item. That is why the Competition Commission and endless court rulings have gone against them.
I spent years negotiating with their senior managers trying to get a better deal for my airlines. The only boss there who ever listened was Sir John Egan and he was sceptical.
I cannot even begin to imagine why Ferrovial thought that buying BAA was a startegic investment. That they will have to take a masive loss is inevitable. But at the end of it STN will be a far better place and I personally expect that when RYR makes peace with the new owners they will base at least 40 more aircraft there. It would thus be likely to be the largest base of any short haul aircraft fleet in Europe.

[STN Ramp Rat]

Falcon666 ''So now What ? ''........get it on the market and get it sold !!!!

BAA have indicated they intend to appeal to the supreme court

[commit aviation]

Supreme Court is I believe the final phase. After that there is nowhere left to go (apart from an episode of Homes under the Hammer perhaps!!)

London Stansted now serving over 150 destinations as Ryanair continues to grow network | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2012/07/18/london-stansted-now-serving-over-150-destinations-as-ryanair-continues-to-grow-network/?utm_source=anna.aero+newsletter&utm_campaign=fff2f3ffe4-anna_nl_180712&utm_medium=email)

Ask yourself: does STN really want or need another 40 Ryanair?? Whatever problems the place may have & whether you believe BAA are the cause or not, I can't see any new owner believing that more Ryanair is the solution!!

[colegate]

STN is a seriously underused airport with a huge potential but only in the so-called LCC sector. It can compete but only where price is a a major factor. The reason for that is that it is far to far from the main origin and destination points. 85% of all foreign visitors into LON (all airports) go to an address within 2 miles of Victoria/Padington stations. By afr the most important origination area is Westminster, Kensington, Chelsesa and down to the south west of there. STN simply does not rate for the premium traffic. But there is huge scope to develop traffic to European regions in exactly the way that RYR have been so successful. But the costs and poor customer service at Stansted (particularly the rude and offensive security staff, have you ever heard them say please?) make this very difficult. RYR also accounts for more than 70% of a STN traffic. Other airlines are cutting back services, particularly EZY and AB. I would think that RYR could easily expand rapidly there as long as they have a good relationship with the airport. This is impossible with BAA.

[Falcon666]

STN has so much potential,in the right hands of course.
The question is where else can Ryanair expand in the London area except for STN.
Too late for LGW? SEN maybe?
Both LGW and LTN have master plans awaiting approval.Both major Easy bases.
Should we ask if either of those airports actually want a larger Ryan presence!
Then there is the problem of attracting other airlines to STN given a Ryanair dominance.
I always thought Wizz might get attracted from LTN to STN by a new owner with a deal but the longer it goes on I think the more unlikely as LTN will probably have expanded to cope.
So another appeal,another year of uncertainty and the thought of another 40 a/c in blue.
Good luck to any potential future owner of STN.

[chipsbrand]

Perhaps RYR might be the future owner? What a thought. They can certainly afford it. It might be easier than anyone else having to negotiate with them. Very seriously I cannot see that anyone will be able to but STN with confidence unless they have a deal with RYR. It puts that airline in a very strong position. No wonder BAA dont want to sell. They will get virtually nothing if they sell it. They will be sued for monopoly practices if they dont. Their main customer hates them. How can Colin Matthews sleep at night? Do we care?

[LGS6753]

Stansted was developed for political reasons when BAA was Government-owned. It is simply in the wrong place. Its UK connections are poor, other than to NE London (not a prime travel destination).
It can only ever be an 'overspill' airport when other London area airports fill up. That is the reason it is emptying fast at present - Gatwick has become more customer-friendly. Luton is nearer to key markets (Central London and M1 corridor). London City has its own niche and Southend is competing on price, but also has faster turn-rounds and shorter flight times to most destinations. All offer a better customer experience to both passenger and airline than STN.
Undoubtedly STN will win some traffic back when the economy improves, but even then it will need to work hard to attract airlines to a remote airport dominated by the lowest-cost and most aggressive competitor.
Perhaps FR will buy it - that's the only way the airport will stay on good terms with its dominant client!

[davidjohnson6]

If FR buy Stansted, do you think any other airline would want to stay at STN if they could possibly find slots elsewhere ?

[commit aviation]

I believe MAG have expressed an interest in buying STN. Keen to get a foothold in the London market place as I recall.

It might be worth noting that the other major disadvantage STN has against LTN & SEN is that it is regulated along with LHR & LGW. I hope we can accept that STN cannot seriously compete with LHR regardless of ownership - LHR being a hub airport. LGW is arguably a different catchment area from a European route perspective so many routes can happilly co-exist at both airports. Longer haul, well maybe a new owner might have some initiatives to attract more routes but I suspect it will take a financial upturn & some considerable time / effort before that comes to fruition.

[mikkie4]

ANY AIRLINE WISHING TO LEAVE STANSTED PLEASE SEND DETAILS TO SOUTHEND AIRPORT C/o EDDIE STOBART...........

[STN Ramp Rat]

Supreme Court is I believe the final phase.

European courts?

[Ernest Lanc's]

Not quite(ish)

The Supreme Court and Europe - The Supreme Court (http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/about/the-supreme-court-and-europe.html)

[AircraftOperations]

I thought that SEN was too short for B738s to operate on, with decent loads to some places that help LoCos make money?

[STN Ramp Rat]

there are rumours of the first visit of an A380 to Stansted on Tuesday Lunchtime.

Assuming that they are true, where will it park and who will do the handling?

[G-APDK]

The latest rumour is that is to be an A330 (China Southern).

G-APDK

[daz211]

I have heard its A Qantas A380 and its due on the 18th Aug.

[bread&water]

China Southern Airways A380 flying in and out of Stansted
Arrival - 31st July 1400hrs
Departure – 06th August 2300hrs

[Hounddog1]

Thats a good question, who will handle it and have they got the suitable equipment to actually handle this aircraft ?

Has the handling companies got a pushback tug capable of moving this aircraft, cant see it sitting on a terminal stand for a week

[STN Ramp Rat]

It’s all irrelevant now because China Southern have apparently downgraded to an A330

[daz211]

What about Qantas on the 18th Aug ?

[rareair]

"Has the handling companies got a pushback tug capable of moving this aircraft, cant see it sitting on a terminal stand for a week"

STN isn't the sole domain of harp adorned 737/8s and orange A319s.

One of these fully laden won't be much lighter than an A380
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/6/9/7/2119796.jpg

Or there is always the Brazilian solution I saw at IGU - I'm sure there are some local farmers who would help out!

http://img296.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=666018377_DSCF1117_122_507lo.jpg

[FEROMAN]

will now be operating an A330 on satellite one stand a13 tomorrow handled by swissport.The A380 would have parked on that stand too. Still a possibility of the A380 coming on the 6th for the return flight if the chinese government let them operate it at stansted.

[FEROMAN]

are operating 747-400s

[Suzeman]

Quantas

Aaaaaaaagh :ugh::ugh::ugh:

QANTAS = Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Services

About Qantas - Our Company - History - Small Beginnings (http://web.archive.org/web/20061009061143/http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/history/details2)

Suzeman :8

[STN Ramp Rat]

News from Dunmow and Stansted and across Uttlesford including Stansted Airport. | New "kiss and fly" charges for Stansted Airport passengers (http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/Dunmow-Stansted/New-kiss-and-fly-charges-for-Stansted-Airport-passengers-31072012.htm)

another stupid money grabbing idea copied from our neighbours disguised as an enviromental initiative.

[davidjohnson6]

If this must go ahead, I really hope the new area set aside for this is well planned, and doesn't end up with huge queues of cars stopping about 5 or 10 mins walk away from the terminal instead

[STN Ramp Rat]

If this must go ahead, I really hope the new area set aside for this is well planned, and doesn't end up with huge queues of cars stopping about 5 or 10 mins walk away from the terminal instead

everyone will pay the £2 except the locals like me who will wait by the car park barrier for their lift's :)

[LTNman]

Luton makes £80 out of those drivers when they get a little penalty charge through the post togther with a free photo of their car.

[STN Ramp Rat]

I read that this charge is unenforceable and you should refuse to pay ..... it seems a risky strategy to me

[JonEMA]

Spot on Rat........the airport has to prove who was driving the car not who owns it.......

[stuinn]

Now that the supreme court have confirmed Stansted must be sold (even though BAA are considering a further appeal), when does the sale have to be completed by? Has the clock been ticking during all the appeals and eating into the 2 year period to be sold? :confused:

[STN Ramp Rat]

Now that the supreme court have confirmed Stansted must be sold

when did they confirm this, I cant find it on the internet anywhere

[davidjohnson6]

In late July, the Court of Appeal turned BAA down. BAA responded by saying they would seek a Supreme Court hearing.

Have the Supreme Court already heard the case ? Can't see anything at The Supreme Court (http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk)
The court is in any case in recess until the start of October, so naff all is likely to happen until then

[stuinn]

Agree, it was not the supreme court but court of appeal. However is the clock still ticking on the sale or does it start once all proceedings have been exhausted.

[LGS6753]

Latest departure to Gatwick is Wow Air. Last flight 3rd September.

[adfly]

Its bookable until the 17th Sept from STN?

[Aero Mad]

Odd considering that Iceland Express (and also Icelandair as of winter 2012) are already serving LGW - REK.

[pamann]

And if we take into account what has happened at Gatwick of late... It won't be long before we say "Wow who?"

[pabely]

Did I not question WOW lasting back in June???

[pamann]

Regardless if they last or not. Gatwick is not the 'Emerald City' airlines that leave Stansted are lead to believe.

[adfly]

Not for everyone I agree, but Iceland Express and Norwegian seem very happy there, and the latter have expanded significantly. Even Air Berlin seem to be doing alright on Nuremburg. Also some airlines have dropped out of both airports simply because of the recession and huge increases in the price of fuel along with the wonderful APD (Air Asia X in particular):E

[daz211]

Has anyone got firm date and time for the arrival of the Qantas 747 into Stansted I am hearing so many random dates...

Would love to see this Arrive at STN.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/photos/view/maxsize:467,311/500490e5b09442b3845a5239767f2254-qf-boxroo-747-flight.jpeg

[STN Ramp Rat]

I believe it MIGHT BE ferrying in from JFK and daystopping so flightaware might have your answers on Sunday night

[daz211]

Thanks for the reply ...

Heard the routing is BRN-LAX-JFK then ferry JFK-STN as QF6008 ...
But nothing on flightaware as yet.

[carousel]

The Greek, Lithuanian, Serbian and Australian teams have all chosen to fly out from Stansted. This means around 700 additional passengers. Culminating with the Australians team departing on a Quantas 747 at 22:40hrs approx monday.

[daz211]

Do you know when Qantas 747 will arrive at STN ?

[ericlday]

On approach now.

[roverman]

Do you think the QF 747 might be able to route direct to SYD - there won't be many heavy medals aboard!

[Skipness One Echo]

Do you think the QF 747 might be able to route direct to SYD
It would not have the range. The only one that ever flew LHR-SYD was towed to the runway and departed with only a handful of crew. That was a delivery to QANTAS back in the late 80s or early 90s.

[TSR2]

It would not have the range.

Absolutely correct. I travelled on the delivery flight of the 2nd Qantas B744 from LHR to SYD in Oct 89 and that flight had a tech stop in Singapore despite there being not much more than two dozen people on board including crew.

[wowzz]

I think you will find that Roverman was being ironic!

[LTNman]

BAA have given up the flight to keep Stansted

BBC News - Stansted Airport to be sold by BAA (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19318094)

[davidjohnson6]

Hooray !
Who's bidding and can find a spare £1bn ?

[carbootking]

were all going to have to learn chinese


now heathrow will be worried

[WHBM]

It's disappointing that the Competition Commission couldn't see that Stansted serves quite a different market to Heathrow, and in fact seems to have been in decline for some years now (the pax numbers certainly have), whereas Heathrow keeps squeezing upwards. Mainstream carriers, as opposed to low costs, have made many attempts to operate their services out of Stansted, and every single one has been a commercial disaster and ended up being binned. Even Easyjet are in retreat here.

I'm no supporter of BAA, but somw ill-informed government quango has caused yet more investment money from the aviation industry to be poured down the drain in now having to sell the place (you never get anything like the money in an enforced sale as you do when you sell at your own choosing). I really doubt they'll get much for it.

[pabely]

Is Stansted worth that much, didn't Gatwick go for £1.5B?

[sxflyer]

This is brilliant news. Hopefully will happen sooner rather than later before any more airlines are lost - not that there are many left now to lose. Will be an interesting few months.

So what are everyone's predictions? These are a few scenarios I could foresee -

Bought by Ryanair, used exclusively by Ryanair with a doubling of based aircraft and the long haul division finally launched?

Bought by someone else to operate the place as a diverse low-cost stronghold with a push to get back lost business from LTN/LGW/SEN ie Norwegian and attempt to get Wizz to move over so theres greater footfall but less reliance on FR?

Bought by someone with a lot of money and good industry connections, with a push for more full service carriers and a little bit of long haul. Possibly target LGW operators such as Aerosvit, Meridiana, Korean, Air China?

Bought by someone happy to leave pax ops as they are, but grow other areas of the business (freight, bizjets), again possibly to the detriment of LTN?

[Heathrow Harry]

"you never get anything like the money in an enforced sale as you do when you sell at your own choosing"

yeah but it was a COMPETITION issue

and they've dragged the whole process out by nearly 4 years

I'm sure a new owner will be good for Stansted - BAA always thought it was the pimple on the a*** of LHR and do nothing to affect their returns there

[sxflyer]

WHBM - Its wrong to say every single full-service has been a commercial disaster.

There are success stories that have operated only until LHR/LCY slots have become available - such as Aegean, Luxair - or that operated for many years until wider financial issues within the company took hold - such as CSA (who are gone from LHR now also), Cyprus Airways.

American Airlines achieved excellent loads (apprecianting yields are the important bit) but would never have lasted as they were there only until Maxjet/Eos were killed off, and El Al would probably still be at STN now were it not for the better offer that enticed them to LTN at the 11th hour.

I'm not saying there have been no disasters, but some airlines have made a success of the place. Full-service carriers coming and going is not a phenomenon unique to STN.

[zfw]

Think you will be joining the ranks of Manchester Airport Group MAG very soon.
MAG has been raising a fighting fund from investors willing to buy upto 49% of MAG so that they can buy Stansted. After the disappointment of not getting LGW a few years ago{rumour was they couldnt raise the capital}they have come prepared for this.

zfw;)

[Skipness One Echo]

BAA had great hopes for STN and taxes the a*** off LHR airlines to rebuild Stansted. Result? A white elephant giving Air UK a hub to compete with BA on facilities but not routes. The reason STN became a loco backwater was because everything else was tried and failed. Long haul? Gone. Legacy European network carriers? Gone.
The fan boys are mistaking market behaviour as sins of the owner. BAAA were massively pro Stansted for years and when things did not work out, had little option but to lube up for the full Ryanair.

No new operator is going to change that. Comparing with LGW, please remember BAA held LGW back at the expense of LHR, they PROMOTED STN on the back of LHR fees. Only one of the three London airports was unloved.

[LGS6753]

In my view, it's the Luton operator/owners that should be worried. A more competitive STN seeking to make a decent return could cannibalise Luton's charter, lo-co and executive business on price, even though STN is far less well connected and geographically placed than LTN.

[STN Ramp Rat]

MAG leads early Stansted airport bid battle | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/08/20/uk-baa-idUKBRE87J07L20120820)

In my opinion what happened at Gatwick is pretty much a blueprint for what the successful bidder for stansted will be looking to do. They will want some early wins and Luton customers will be an early target and I would expect Wizz to be the biggest target of them all. Ryanair and Easyjet will be playing the new owners looking for the best deal although neither Stansted nor Luton has the crucial first wave departure slots to incentivise new nightstopping carriers.

I have long believed that Stansted has a market for a “full service” carrier to operate to the main European cities with smaller aircraft such as the EM170 / DHC8. Manchester Airport has a good deal with Flybe feeding to the long haul maybe if they win they can build on that.

Then finally they need the long haul carriers and that is a harder ask, but Gatwick has managed to be successful in this regard against the odds so maybe Stansted can as well. Then the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle is Cargo and Stansted is well placed to do well in that area.

[colegate]

RYR is so crucial to the whole future of STN that it is difficult to imagine how anyone can put together a credible bid without first having reached an accomodation with RYR over pricing and volumes. Without that a five year business plan which will be essential for any money raising exercise will, be completely meaningless.

[STN Ramp Rat]

Colegate I agree, but looking the other way down the Telescope, Stansted is crucial to Ryanair. They don’t have another option for this scale of access to the London market. It is in the interests of both to reach an agreement. I understand that Ryanair are just as keen to meet with the potential bidders.

[PAXboy]

WHBMIt's disappointing that the Competition Commission couldn't see that Stansted serves quite a different market to HeathrowTrue, but if they did know that they were different markets, it would mean someone in govt understood the airline industry - and that would never do. :hmm:

[LTNman]

They will want some early wins and Luton customers will be an early target and I would expect Wizz to be the biggest target of them all.

Can't see Wizz moving out of LTN. Wizz tried out Stansted a few years ago and got its fingers burnt. LTN is now firmly established as a gateway airport to Eastern Europe with Adria and Blue-Air all jumping on the Wizz bandwagon.

Also I would not think they would like operating out of Ryanair's home base.

[LTNman]

In my view, it's the Luton operator/owners that should be worried. A more competitive STN seeking to make a decent return could cannibalise Luton's charter, lo-co and executive business on price, even though STN is far less well connected and geographically placed than LTN.

In 2 or 3 years Luton will have increased its capacity by 80%. It might be STN that needs to worry as LTN looks to the east to fill its expanded airport.

[boeing_eng]

As has been mentioned many times in the STN vs LTN debate the one factor that will always be an issue for STN is location, location, location!

To those who think LTN's exec traffic will suddenly be lured to Essex.....Hmm, why hasn't this already happened then!? STN already has plenty of parking space North side & several FBO's who will happily oblige! A possible (but unlikely) reduction in landing fees isn't going to make much difference to a Gulfstream owner who wants to be in the West End pronto after landing!

Both Signature and Ocean Sky at LTN are making big investments in new facilities and will want to make sure they get some return in the future!

[LN-KGL]

I think the weakest selling point for Stansted is the poor ground transport to and from London. Below is an illustration I've made showing only travel times for all London airport to Marble Arch departing the airport around 9 am. As you can see I have looked at three modes of transport: rail/underground/DLR, taxi/car and coach/bus. The distances shown are measured linear distances, not actual distances driven.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Illustration/London_airports_transport.jpg

Sources for these travel times are Transport for London Journey Planner and TomTom Route Planner. For Southend Airport I had to use also the National Rail Enquiries and First Essex websites (Southend Airport is the only London airport that is not included in the Transport for London Journey Planner).

[LTNman]

Luton's weak link is the 5 minute shuttle bus between the station and the terminal which can take 15 minutes if you have just missed a bus. Once at the station it has non stop trains to and from London which take as little as 20 minutes as well as the regular First Capital Connect and Southern train services. Also it serves a large number of stations directly both north and south of the Thames making it an ideal airport for many passengers.

The Stansted Express is fine except I would not call it an express service which makes it seem that Stansted is futher out from London than it really is.

[LN-KGL]

I would say the soft belly of LTN is the public transport to and from the airport. At my home airport, OSL, the distance from the airport to the city centre is exactly the same as from LTN to Marble Arch. If you are traveling with the Airport Express train from OSL to the National Theatre it takes only 27 minutes - and that is less than one third of what the travel time is from LTN.

[pamann]

So are we assuming that the population of London and all those that fly from there reside under Marble Arch? From my home in London (which is actually south of the river) both Stansted and Gatwick take the same time to drive, despite Stansted being further in distance. Luton is fine by train but a bloody pain in the ar$€ to treck across central London by car.

Agreed that the Stansted Express is slow, I remember when the new terminal opened in 1991 it had a journey time of just 41 minutes with the stop at Tottenham Hale so what happened? Plus it's really expensive for what it is.

Stansted has a good catchment area which undoubtedly overlaps with that of Luton and Gatwick. However we all know that the 'customer' will go with which ever airline offers the best fare and from which ever airport that happens to be as a majority.

Good luck to Stansted and I really do hope that the sale brings with it a wave of new (and maybe some old) airlines at what is a fantastic and user friendly facility to use.

[rareair]

A strong point of Luton which is often missed is how much better for the Midlands it is than Stansted.

Bearing in mind lots of the thinner eastern routes will not all support BHX / EMA or even MAN and so travelling to London is a must - Luton is 40 minutes to an hour closer to Birmingham, Nottingham, Leicester etc.

Stansted holds the advantage for Norwich, Peterborough, Cambridge, much smaller cities.

Luton also has plentiful free parking in the town :)

[LTNman]

If you are traveling with the Airport Express train from OSL to the National Theatre it takes only 27 minutes - and that is less than one third of what the travel time is from LTN.

There are not many places in London that take that long as the Thameslink rail service has 5 principle railway stations in the heart of London. Also St Pancras connects with 6 underground lines and Blackfriars a further 2.

[STN Ramp Rat]

Unfortunately, as was only to be expected, this had degenerated into a Luton V Stansted debate. I suppose it’s only a matter of time before Southend arrive at the party!

[Expressflight]

I'm not even tempted.....

[LTNman]

Nothing much wrong with Stansted. At the end of the day Stansted has the greatest potential of all London airports to expand as it has the space to grow.

Southend has the most to lose as it does not have any fallback if easyjet shifts its 3 aircraft. Can't see them doing that anytime soon but then I didn't see them shifting capacity from Stansted to Southend either.

[Nakata77]

Every London airport is a pain in some way or another. For me, travelling from a regional airport is always less stressful andobviously less time consuming.

LTN is a nightmare if you want to get into London by public transport, and if you have to do it regularly then forget it. I used ot hate standing outside waiting in the freezing cold for the shuttle bus to slowly chug around and take me to the station and again wait in the freezin cold for an old train to take me into London with the terrifying rattling windows every time a train wizzed past on the opposite side of the tracks. Only very price sensitive people will put up with the increased stress associated with LTN and to a lesser extent STN (maybe even SEN & LGW) to get to and from London - and that has been their success - LCC and bucket&spade.

If you can afford it, you will fly into LHR or LCY as a number one preference.

[LTNman]

It is only Heathrow that has decent trains. All the other airports use commuter stock including Gatwick which is served by the very same train that you hate.

[Nakata77]

I have tried LGW by train a couple of times a long time ago, although I don't seem to remember sh**ing my pants every time a train went by on the other line on that one.

[sxflyer]

Ramp Rat mentioned Flybe earlier and they were one of my first thoughts - if you look at their network from LGW it is an excellent fit for STN.

Channel Islands aside, which I can't really see moving, none of the other routes are served from STN and BE do in fact have competition from EZY at LGW on a few of them (ABZ, IOM, INV). Add in the arrival of EI on the BHD route (a destination STN has recently lost) and LGW's recent dislike of smaller aircraft it becomes a nice rumour.

[Dannyboy39]

It is only Heathrow that has decent trains. All the other airports use commuter stock including Gatwick which is served by the very same train that you hate.
But you have to spend an hour on the Piccadilly Line or get burnt in the pocket for using the LHR Express!

I'd say rail services to the London airports are satisfactory, but nothing more than that. Considering the locations, its probably only as good as it can be.

[DublinPole]

A better option between Heathrow Express and the tube is Heathrow connect, every half an hour, 25 minute journey to Paddington for 9.10 single on modern trains.

[LTNman]

I have tried LGW by train a couple of times a long time ago, although I don't seem to remember sh**ing my pants every time a train went by on the other line on that one.

That's because there is no highspeed trains between Gatwick and London as it is a commuter line while north of London there is East Midland trains to Nottingham and Sheffield which passes Luton.

[JonEMA]

Ryanair have announced that they are prepared to be a stakeholder if required.

Low-cost carrier Ryanair in talks about taking a stake in Stansted airport - Business News - Business - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/lowcost-carrier-ryanair-in-talks-about-taking-a-stake-in-stansted-airport-8070003.html)

hmmmm

Isn't this all really just part of a long and drawn out plan to get control of an important London gateway ?

The way this is heading the competition authorities could look pretty foolish if their not careful.

[LTNman]

They can kiss goodbye to Easyjet if that happens,

[davidjohnson6]

Over 70% of seat capacity at STN comes from Ryanair. Ryanair is very much a monopsonist - a bit like the NHS being the major purchaser of medical services from doctors in the UK.

Nobody would invest in STN without getting some form of long term commitment from Ryanair such that Ryanair suffers if MOL changes his strategy away from STN in the future

[JonEMA]

LTN and DJ,

Spot on....and with O'Toole (Ex Ryanair Exec) now handily installed as Group CCO at Manchester Group then perhaps the deal has already been done and everyone else is wasting their time.....

[LTNman]

Nobody would invest in STN without getting some form of long term commitment from Ryanair such that Ryanair suffers if MOL changes his strategy away from STN in the future

So which London airport could Ryanair go to? Stansted is stuck with Ryanair and Ryanair is stuck at Stansted.

[davidjohnson6]

Ryanair can't shift everything out of STN but they can make a sizeable dent. How much capacity will there be at LTN once all the building work is complete ? Can some Ws be done at Gatwick for the off peak periods ?

May not be rational for FR to move aircraft from a short term profit perspective, but they have a track record of doing so at other bases when they have a point to make.

If the bidders for STN are heavily financed by debt they will not be able to afford to take long term views in the first few years. Interest costs will be fixed but revenues variable against passenger numbers.

Conversely whoever buys STN should be doing their utmost to diversify their airline customer base and reduce reliance on FR long term, while signalling FR won't have authority over STN's board of directors to reassure other airlines. Perhaps some clause limiting the voting rights of FR's shares might help or the use of non voting preference shares rather than ordinary shares ?

[JonEMA]

Well......Ryanair is stuck with STN I agree.......but is STN really stuck with Ryanair...?

Sooner or later airports must wake up to the fact that it is they own their catchment and not the airline and that it is their opportunity to serve it with a flying programme that meets the market requirement.

The new owners should double Ryanairs charges.......if they pay great....if they don't.....bye bye Ryanair....!!....as LTN says, they have no where else to go.....

Generally speaking, airlines will not come to STN whilst Ryanair remain .........and if they become stakeholders, well, ....nothing more would stifle competition more in my book...!!

Let's hope there are bidders out there with a bit of guts and determination and see the vision of what STN could become......

[pabely]

Ryanair cannot go anywhere else in the LON area with such scale.
Any potential buyer will have to swallow this, if they demand 'normal' charges then RYR will start cutting routes to move airframes across Europe or base them in Europe and run the routes back to STN.
Either way unless the new owner has to have deep pockets, they are not going to attract new business whilst RYR are dominating.

An aggressive Gatwick and Luton and Southend hungry for more business, it's going to need a revolutionary business plan to move things forward for STN.

[Heathrow Harry]

"If you are traveling with the Airport Express train from OSL to the National Theatre it takes only 27 minutes -"

and it doesn't cost you a new mortgage

A few years back I was with a guy who INSISTED on taking a taxi from OSL to central Oslo as "only Europeans use public transport". The driver had to be told three times that we were serious and then watching the meter just go round and round so fast you could hardly read it was a lot of fun as I wasn't paying

We went back on the train .....................................