STANSTED - 2

[CabinCrew747]

Here is the QF 744;

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qf6051

Due 06:45.

[FRatSTN]

And finally the plans for a new Arrivals facility have been made public today.

Stansted Airport unveils plans for new £130m arrivals building - Business - East Anglian Daily Times (http://www.eadt.co.uk/business/stansted_airport_unveils_plans_for_new_130m_arrivals_buildin g_1_4817425)

Stansted Airport wants to build a £130 million arrivals building Stansted Airport unveils £130 million arrivals building plan - Cambridge News (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/stansted-airport-unveils-130-million-12324703)

To Summerise...

This will be a separate, 34,000sq m facility between the existing Terminal and Radisson Blu Hotel. It will span across three levels.

It will entail a larger immigration and baggage reclaim area, new retail outlets and a public forecourt.

Expected to take three years to complete and improvements to the existing Terminal, which will become solely for departing passengers, to be completed by 2022.

[wowzz]

But unless more UK Border Staff are deployed, the queues will still be as long as ever, but in a nice new building.

[paully]

I`m flying out and in, as it were, late summer next year on one of the new Jet2 services, has things improved since the terminal alterations were `finished`?..Border farce are, as everywhere, a law unto themselves so the queues inbound won`t improve in the short term..

Mind you at Liverpool, when its busy, you can end up queuing in the rain!!

[Red Four]

The artist's impression outside looks like it will be a magnet for 'slips, trips and falls' claims.

[STN Ramp Rat]

But unless more UK Border Staff are deployed, the queues will still be as long as ever, but in a nice new building.

to be fair I have flown out of Stansted a few times in the last few months and I have not seen any significant queues at Immigration. I know that its all about the time of arrival but its nowhere near as bad as it was a year ago.

[_aax1]

Jet 2 to base an additional aircraft from Summer '17 bringing the total to 7.

New routes to:
Antayla
Corfu
Dalaman
Split

[southside bobby]

Beat me with the good news re Jet2 by moments aax1.....Total destinations on offer Jet2 Summer 17 from STN now for a total of 25....Not too shabby from a standing start......SS

[FRatSTN]

To add to the good news.... Eurowings to start new 6x weekly STN to MUC from 31st March 2017.

[STN Ramp Rat]

Jet 2 to base an additional aircraft from Summer '17 bringing the total to 7.

presumably that means that early sales are going well then

[STN Ramp Rat]

Jet 2 to base an additional aircraft from Summer '17 bringing the total to 7.

presumably that means that early sales are going well then

[AvGeek1]

To add to the good news.... Eurowings to start new 6x weekly STN to MUC from 31st March 2017.

Good move from Eurowings, timings could have been better as all flights arrive late into Munich so weekend breaks would be hard. Filling the void easyJet left when they reduced frequency in favour of Luton.

[southside bobby]

Yes STN Ramp Rat.....Jet2 describing customer reaction as "phenomenal"..Are also adding extra frequencies on 4 already announced routes taking the number of seats available ex STN for Summer 17 now to 875,000 = +8% over the original announcement...SS

[inOban]

I wonder who's losing out to Jet2. May explain why RYR are hurriedly moving into the holiday package business.

[pamann]

I think the biggest ones to take a hit at STN from this are the likes of Thomson and Thomas Cook.

[Boeing737-8]

At Luton there is a rumour that Thomas Cook may base a plane in 2018. Could one be leaving stansted and moving to LTN???

[LTNman]

Which could mean that LTN could benefit from those airlines in S18.

[AirportPlanner1]

Not that I want to start the old STN v LTN thing again but what really would Thomas Cook gain by partly moving to LTN? Part of the benefit of having 3 aircraft based is that they can offer more flexible durations and more destinations. It's not as though LTN is short of competition either (assuming Monarch stick around).

If I were Thomas Cook and had a spare plane laying around I'd make it 4 aircraft at STN and compete with Jet2 by adding some new destinations rather than put one into LTN.

[pamann]

From years of experience on here it's clear a lot of rumours are just individuals 'wish lists' often made up on here.

There are few regulars who actually know their stuff and you begin to know who they are over time.

[Boeing737-8]

Nothing to do with a wish. I'm telling you what I've been told and with Thomas Cook planning to do a Ibiza and Menorca but not having the plane availability at the moment. Not trying to throw anything into the mixer but just saying that Thomas Cook are looking at planning on basing a plane at LTN in 2018. This may be a plane from somewhere else or a new one or moving it from stansted due to the high competition. Jet2 are doing a very good job of pushing all airlines at stansted and what a gem for stansted to have. What it could of been for LTN if Jet2 had enough space to park any planes.

[pamann]

Nothing to do with a wish. I'm telling you what I've been told and with Thomas Cook planning to do a Ibiza and Menorca but not having the plane availability at the moment. Not trying to throw anything into the mixer but just saying that Thomas Cook are looking at planning on basing a plane at LTN in 2018. This may be a plane from somewhere else or a new one or moving it from stansted due to the high competition. Jet2 are doing a very good job of pushing all airlines at stansted and what a gem for stansted to have. What it could of been for LTN if Jet2 had enough space to park any planes.

And the source of your 'rumour' please Boeing737-8?

I'm guessing that it's probably the first anyone has heard of it.

[canberra97]

pamann

I think Boeing 738-8 is a perfect example of what you describe in your post 3775!

[AirportPlanner1]

A bit odd as well that 737-8 broke this big LTN news here rather than in the LTN thread, purely a coincidence I suppose that it followed good news of a new based aircraft and five new routes.

[compton3bravo]

Oh come on please, both airports are doing rather well at the moment and let us hope they continue to do so and in a way complement each other. So for heaven's sake can we stop this yours is better than mine stupidity PLEASE.

[Tranceaddict]

STN-TLV for sale on Arkia website from June 2017
3 x weekly (M,W,F)
*Fight is operated by Travel Service on behalf of Arkia

Arkia Israeli Airlines - Flights to Tel Aviv, Eilat Packages, Hotels in Israel (http://www.arkia.com/)

[southside bobby]

Yep,just checked it out,thanks Trance...More good news....Arkia STN-TLV in `17. Arkia have had a presence @ STN in the past & a welcome return for TLV...& STN does work too for the communities in N.London.....SS

[Boeing737-8]

Does my very good friend who is very high up at the head office in Peterborough good enough for you. This won't be announced for a while tho.

[southside bobby]

Still on the positive side,MAG stating 1.2M pax for STN during the total festive period...23rd busiest for outbound with 43K...busiest day overall in/outbound combined is Dec 30 for a total of 80K...3000 for Christmas Day itself...Appears to me at least based on the previous year`s roundy therefore not scientific predictions to be an increase over the whole period of 200K......SS

[davidjohnson6]

Is it possible that with Arkia / Travel Service entering the London - Tel Aviv market, that the route is perhaps ever so slightly over served ? On Thursday and Sundays there are already 10 flights per day in each direction, and with Arkia there will then be 5 different airlines competing against each other.

[canberra97]

Your be very surprised how big a market London to Tel Aviv is and I'm sure another entrant will do well.

[01475]

Lots of people want to make that journey, and they are people who care about making that particular journey; it's not like they'd go to Sharm instead if there was a better deal available!

[_aax1]

Summer NQY services returns 26 March and ends 28 October - on sale now

[FRatSTN]

Flybe are operating in the evenings now though apart from Saturdays main season which remain afternoon times.

I see Cobalt are starting to put S17 flights on sale now as well. Seem to operating at slightly earlier times on the whole compared to last summer.

That concludes everything now so as it stands all airlines from S16 will be operating from STN again in S17.

[daz211]

Got this today regarding Stansted flights to India
I'm not holding my breath but if it happens it happens.


Happy New Year!. Thank you for your message about POP. We plan to launch Summer 2017 and tickets will go on sale in Q1. I have added you to the POP press list so you will receive our press releases/news announcements. Thank you for your interest in POP. Kindest regards, Abby in the POP press office.

[Buster the Bear]

Titan Airways secures Neilson summer charter contract - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/52175-titan-airways-secures-neilson-summer-charter-contract)

[whitelighter]

PoP have been discussed for about 18 months.
Anyone know if they've leased the 330s yet?

[daz211]

From google search : lots of results

flyPOP (London Stansted) has chartered an A330-300 from an unspecified operator ahead of plans to commence regular flights to the Indian cities of Amritsar and Ahmedabad during the last quarter of this year.

Chairman Navdip Singh Judge told the Runway Girl Network in an interview that of the aircraft’s 378 seats, 78 seats are premium economy while the remainder are in an all-economy layout.

Judge added that POP has a verbal agreement with an unspecified budget carrier operating out of London Stansted wherein it will provide regional European feed to POP longhaul flights and vice versa.

[davidjohnson6]

Over the last 10 years, there have been a series of attempts to set up a new airline flying just between the UK and regional cities of India (often involving Amritsar) - they seem to always end in tears.

Flying between the UK and Ahmedabad / Amritsar will be very heavy on ethnic and possibly highly seasonal VFR traffic with little in the way of business. Visas are required for travel in either direction (unless you are of Indian origin but have a British passport - mainly people who were born in India but have emigrated to the UK). For the general UK public, neither city has a strong tourist appeal. OK the Golden Temple and Wagah are both interesting but that knocks off Amritsar in 1 day. There's a reason as to why the likes of BA, Jet and Virgin are so much more interested in Bangalore, Delhi and Mumbai with all the year-round corporate flying that goes on to these 3 cities. I do not consider Air India to be a commercial airline - I see it as a part of the Indian Govt - but they have a Star Alliance feed in Europe and their own network feed in India, fly non-stop between the UK and Ahmedabad and, with a refuel stop, direct to Amritsar. When you're running an aircraft which has a fixed supply of heavily economy focussed seats, wastage due to seasonality is bad news.

A verbal agreement with a LCC at Stansted, presumably Ryanair, to supply connecting passengers is worthless. Firstly verbal is not enforceable - either it's in writing or the LCC can (and possibly will) change its mind on the terms at a later date. Secondly, who handles the EU261 cases where something goes wrong with a connection ? A sizeable LCC should be seeing desperation and smelling blood in the water when it views flyPOP - and will have no hesitation in ensuring the terms of any agreement heavily favour the LCC over flyPOP. Even if the terms favour flyPOP, I don't see this as contributing much to flyPOP - the Indian population in the UK is about 1.5 million, the European country with the 2nd largest Indian population is Italy with just 150,000 - the MEB3 and TK should already have the Italy - India market covered, compared to flying 2 hours in the wrong direction before making a connection

Finally any company that plans to give 51% of its profits to charity is going to have a very hard time borrowing money from a bank to start operations - the lender would likely deem the company unable to repay the loan requested and refuse to lend in the first place. There are plenty of airlines which explicitly spell out the message to new hires 'We are a business not a charity'. A charity has no business running a long haul airline, and a start up long haul airline will need every penny of cashflow it can find just to survive in business before even thinking about giving it away. If the financial backers of this airline want to support some charities, they would be better off just giving the money direct to charity and avoiding pouring their wealth into this likely financial disaster.

I don't like to see the small guy squished out of the market in general, but frankly I look at this airline as a money-losing pit

[daz211]

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (12 Jan) announced a new growth deal with Manchester Airports Group (MAG) which will deliver 9 new London Stansted routes, including a daily service to Naples and a three times daily service to Copenhagen, as well as routes to Beziers, Cagliari, Clermont, Grenoble, Nice, Nimes and Strasbourg, extra flights on 13 existing routes, and over 20m customers p.a., supporting 15,000* jobs at London Stansted Airport. - See more at: Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/170112-new-london-stansted-growth-deal-delivers-9-new-routes-over-20m-ryanair-customers-p-a/?market=ie#sthash.LBE6uMjD.dpuf)

[FRatSTN]

Can't imagine EZY will be seeing this as particularly welcome news with Cagliari, Naples and Nice as three of their existing STN routes.

[_aax1]

easyJet has suddenly got a lot of new competition in 2017 with Ryanair, Jet2 and Eurowings muscling in on their routes!

[AirportPlanner1]

How are these flights being facilitated? Are they at the expense of other routes or are they basing additional aircraft? I've only looked at Copenhagen, the morning flight originates there but the two later flights are STN aircraft.

[DC3 Dave]

Can't imagine EZY will be seeing this as particularly welcome news with Cagliari, Naples and Nice as three of their existing STN routes.
I guess EZY have no choice but to stand their ground and fight for their share. Personally, I'd love them to shift another airframe to SEN, but the way things are going at STN such a gesture would be scoffed at.

[j636]

Stansted bids to become Britain's next long-haul hub as Heathrow and Gatwick are 'full' | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/stansted-airport-heathrow-gatwick-third-runway-long-haul-new-ryanair-flights-a7523976.html)

Only thing missing is actually long haul services.......

[FRatSTN]

Looking at BACFs schedule for Summer 2017 it seems the Saturday PMI flight has changed to an E170 with an earlier departure time yet the AGP, FAO, IBZ and TXL are still showing as the E190.

With rumours circulating about BACF at MAN and BHX for the summer could this mean some changes, perhaps a 2nd aircraft, for STN?

[whitelighter]

2nd AC but no extra routes - seems unlikely, unless more routes are planned

Btw, there were 8 EZY overnight the other day, fluke or has the airport picked an extra one up

[AirportPlanner1]

Re EZY - there was a divert from SEN the other night, probably that.

[DC3 Dave]

And we want our A320 back, thank-you.

[Tranceaddict]

New Routes and increased frequency's STN

British Airways - LAUNCH OF NEW ROUTES FROM MANCHESTER AND STANSTED (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/8195?ref=HeroStory)

[FRatSTN]

So from what I can make out STN now has...

Berlin-Tegel - 1x week
Faro - 1x week
Florence - 2x week
Geneva - ?
Ibiza - 4x week
Malaga - 1x week
Nice - 1x week
Palma Mallorca - 2x week

[j636]

Lorient starting in July with FR.

Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/170202-ryanair-launches-new-london-stansted-route-to-lorient/?market=en)

[Buster the Bear]

Arkia 3x weekly. Globes English - Arkia announces more flights, new destinations (http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-arkia-announces-more-flights-new-destinations-1001175650)

[_aax1]

BA increases Malaga and Faro to a all year service.

[_aax1]

05:40 MAH MT
06:00 NAP EZY
06:05 AGP EZY
06:20 CFU MT
06:35 MAH TOM
06:35 PMI EZY
06:30 MAH MT
06:50 ALC LS
07:00 AMS EZY
07:00 NCE EZY
07:00 AGP LS
07:00 OVD EZY
07:00 BIO EZY
07:15 DLM TOM
07:45 BFS EZY
07:50 CGN 4U
07:50 STR EW
08:00 PMI LS
08:15 FAO LS
08:30 GRO LS
08:45 REU LS
08:50 GLA EZY
08:55 DND BE
09:00 EDI EZY
09:30 LAS MT
09:35 BJV PC
10:20 CAG EZY
10:35 BFS EZY
10:40 CUN MT
10:55 BOJ BGH
11:55 PRG EZY
12:10 AMS EZY
12:15 BFS EZY
12:45 ACE MT
12:50 NAP EZY
13:05 LJU EZY
13:15 MUC EZY
13:20 SAW PC
13:35 IST KK
13:50 LPA TOM
13:50 LCA LS
14:25 KGS LS
14:35 ZTH LS
14:40 TFS LS
14:45 LCA CO
15:00 FNC LS
15:00 DLM MT
15:25 GCI GR
15:45 SAW PC
15:45 DLM MT
15:50 DLM EZY
15:55 CFU LS
15:55 IBZ LS
16:10 PMI LS
16:15 EDI EZY
16:45 AMS EZY
16:55 BFS EZY
17:25 GLA EZY
17:55 CFU TOM
17:55 EDI EZY
18:15 AGP EZY
18:30 BIO EZY
18:55 NQY BE
19:00 DND BE
19:20 AMS EZY
19:40 TLV IZ
19:55 BFS EZY
19:55 EDI EZY
20:00 VIE EW
20:10 MUC EW
20:20 STR 4U
20:20 IBZ EZY
20:25 HAJ 4U
20:30 CGN 4U
20:55 GLA EZY
23:45 SAW PC

Total Non-FR flights MON 7 AUG = 76

Heres a list of all non-FR flights on 7/8/17, just an example of whats to come this summer. As much as FR is so important to STN its good to see a larger variety of flights. I suspect large growth for the airport again for 2017. I just hope STN are prepared for the increase in passengers at check-in, security, departure lounge and immigration.

[pamann]

Are Jet2 going to be using the main satellite building (gates 1-19)?

Their check-in area/sales desk is looking bright and impressive! :ok:


http://www.dartgroup.co.uk/uploadedImages/Shared_Resources/Images/london-stansted-desk.jpg

[_aax1]

Does Sat 1 has enough stands for EZY, TOM, MT and LS for the morning peak? I wouldn't be surprised if Jet2 use remote stands.

[pamann]

Time to get building satellite #4

[davidjohnson6]

Stansted is very 'peaky' - huge demand early morning for departures and arrivals late in the evening. And yes, I know there's also a combined peak about 6 pm using a mix of arrivals and departures. Would MAG perhaps prefer to wait a few years so that airlines can be forced to schedule more flights in the currently vacant non-peak slots first ?

[paully]

Stansted have now introduced a fast track passport lane, which is about £7. On arrival you will, apparantly, be met by a dedicated host to assist one through as fast as possible

What is Passport Control FastTrack?
Passport Control FastTrack is aimed at making your arrival at Stansted Airport as quick and simple as possible. On arrival at the passport control area, you will be greeted at the exclusive fast track lane by a dedicated host. You will then follow the standard border control and passport checks conducted by UK Border Force before entering the Baggage Reclaim area or Arrivals.

Although another moneyspinner for them, might it also be a response to an inadequate service being provided by BorderFarce :(

[FRatSTN]

Are Jet2 going to be using the main satellite building (gates 1-19)?
Yes, Jet2 will be operating from Satellite 1 (Gates 1-19)

Does Sat 1 has enough stands for EZY, TOM, MT and LS for the morning peak?
Not quite but since the Jet2's generally depart a bit later, they'll probably tow any aircraft on remote stands over once the first few aircraft have left.

Stansted is very 'peaky' - huge demand early morning for departures and arrivals late in the evening
Last year they opened the new gates 90-93 which are located in a coaching facility below the Terminal used to access remote parking in the morning rush.

Would MAG perhaps prefer to wait a few years so that airlines can be forced to schedule more flights in the currently vacant non-peak slots first ?
Not sure that's a particularly wise way to manage growth. This is already being accounted for largely by Jet2 who mostly will be operating their second wave of departures between the 14:00 - 16:00 period which has often been much less busy.

[pamann]

I have used Stansted a few times recently including Christmas landing back around 2200 and I have to say a massive improvement. The longest I waited at immigration was about 10 minutes. That really isn't bad considering it's size and the amount of inbound Ryanair's at this time.

Also similarly the outbound experience at security has improved. I walked straight up last time, totally unexpected. It seems there are two entry points for security... The main one that everyone heads for and there's another entry next to the fast track, to the far right of the main entry point. Much quicker in my opinion.

Now they just need a revamp of the check in area. All those white washed walls that were put up with the terminal redevelopment look shabby and temporary.

[AirportPlanner1]

22:00 is quite a good time to get in though, there is a bit of a lull in international arrivals between about 20:00-22:00. The crunch comes from about 22:45 when quite a few FR flights have offloaded and it gets worse until about midnight. LGW isn't much better though and LTN is about the same in my experience.

I agree security has been an improvement the last couple of times I've passed through

[pamann]

My last flight actually landed back at 23.20. So perhaps I was just lucky.

[commit aviation]

I believe a Satellite reconfiguration plan begins this week. Looking at a DN that came out the other day, there will be a change in the layout to a couple of Stands on Sat 2 so they will take 737-800s with winglets. Then they are doing something similar on Sat 1 but it will take a few months so could be some short term pain during the early summer for longer term gain.

[Alsacienne]

Also similarly the outbound experience at security has improved. I walked straight up last time, totally unexpected. It seems there are two entry points for security... The main one that everyone heads for and there's another entry next to the fast track, to the far right of the main entry point. Much quicker in my opinion.

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

[Captinbirdseye]

Hi All, just out of interest. Apologies if this has been mentioned before. What's being built next to Enterprise House?

[whitelighter]

Hampton by Hilton hotel

[FRatSTN]

Pegasus have increased their frequencies to SAW for the summer, now up to 4x a day.

Guessing this is a replacement to them pulling out of LGW and an attempt to challenge AtlasGlobal on IST.

[daz211]

I have just heard that BA is launching yet another route from Stansted 2 weekly to Milan Linate I haven't had this confirmed yet has anyone else heard anything

[Falcon666]

Milan
Yeah twice weekly Sat/Sun.Its on the BA Web site� Starts 29/4

[daz211]

Cheers growing quite steadily

[daz211]

Another route from BA

London Stansted – Skiathos 26JUN17 – 06SEP17 3 weekly Embraer E190

BA2225 STN0710 – 1230JSI E90 123
BA2224 JSI1315 – 1455STN E90 123

Reported by routes online

[Jet Set Willie]

These are London City flight times and flight numbers!!!

[daz211]

Maybe an error by routes online then

[LGS6753]

It does seem odd that BA should send an E90 to STN on three weekday mornings for a single flight.
More likely this is actually an LCY flight.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.ajot.com/news/antonov-airlines-transports-giant-helicopter-from-its-new-uk-headquarters

[_aax1]

EZY appear to have gaps in their peak summer schedule. Anything new to be announced??

[_aax1]

UK Gov announces new PSO Stansted - Derry service.

Flights operated by BMI Regional, twice daily from 26 March.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-funds-city-of-derry-air-link

[FRatSTN]

Another welcome addition though not all that surprising

Good to see yet another airline on the scene... Getting quite a reasonable mix of carriers operating from STN now :D

[FRatSTN]

- 3 new routes: Aalborg (3 wkly), Oradea (3 wkly) & Pardubice (3 wkly)
- 6 new winter services: Cagliari (3 wkly), Copenhagen (3 daily), Naples (daily), Nice (daily), Oslo Torp (3 wkly), Ponta Delgada (1 wkly)
Extra flights on 13 routes: Billund (2 daily), Bratislava (2 daily), Budapest (3 daily), Cologne (2 daily), Baden (9 wkly), Lublin (4 wkly), Marseille (daily), Stockholm Skavsta (2 daily), Plovdiv (3 wkly), Poznan (9 wkly), Prague (2 daily), Sofia (16 wkly), Toulouse (2 daily)
- 124 routes in total
- Over 1,100 weekly flights
- 20.5m customers p.a. (+4%)
- 15,000* “on-site” jobs p.a.

Good to see modest growth from FR. With just a 4% rise in capacity this year, FR's share of the traffic at STN will fall quite noticeably for the first time in a fair number of years.

[giggitygiggity]

Pretty sure we taxied past a private 787 today in STN parked near the Ryanair hanger. I think it might have had a Saudi flag on the back but wondered if anyone knew what it was? It was dark and pretty rainy so hard to tell for sure but I'm sure someone will know!

[BIZZYBOY]

Pretty sure we taxied past a private 787 today in STN parked near the Ryanair hanger. I think it might have had a Saudi flag on the back but wondered if anyone knew what it was? It was dark and pretty rainy so hard to tell for sure but I'm sure someone will know

UAE Governmental flight regular operator into STN.

[Reveal1]

It Should be the B787-8 Presidential Flight Authority of Abu Dhabi.

[FRatSTN]

MT has started to put S18 long-haul flights on sale:

Cancun
MT2938 2,6 Dep. 09:30, Arr. 13:50
MT2939 2,6 Dep. 15:40, Arr. 07:10+1

Las Vegas
MT2986 1 Dep. 09:30, Arr. 12:05
MT2987 1 Dep. 13:55, Arr. 07:40+1

Orlando-Intl
MT2922 5 Dep. 09:50, Arr. 14:05
MT2923 5 Dep. 16:05, Arr. 05:25+1

MT2656 4 Dep. 10:20, Arr. 14:35
MT2957 4 Dep. 16:35, Arr. 05:55+1

MT2940 7 Dep. 10:20, Arr. 14:35
MT2941 7 Dep. 16:35, Arr. 05:55+1

[pamann]

I'm guessing the above are just the school 6 week holiday dates? Or are we to see a full summer schedule?

[FRatSTN]

Yes it's just the usual dates and only 1 a/c as it stands at the moment, though seem to recall it was released like this the last two years.

[LAX_LHR]

There are more flights to be released soon. What is on sale for all bases is not the finished product by any stretch of the imagination.

[pamann]

Do we know if Thomson/TUI are operating long-haul Summer 18? It looks like the Cancun has been dropped Winter 17/18.

[canberra97]

Wasn't Cancun replaced by Montego Bay?

[pamann]

No. Cancun operates weekly along with the Montego Bay. Montego Bay sort of replaces the Orlando which now only operates April and a couple of dates in August as far as I'm aware. So this summer there is a very small increase in TOM long-haul however come November there appears to be nothing.

[_aax1]

Ryanair launching 2x daily Frankfurt am Main in W17.

[canberra97]

I was under the impression that TUI are not operating long haul from STN for summer 2018 I had read it somewhere it could have been on here or one of the several online travel websites, which is a real shame as I was hoping for more long haul expansion from TUI at STN. Maybe at some VS may consider adding a STN to Orlando flight in a similar way as they do at BFS and GLA.

[_aax1]

I was under the impression long haul was only cancelled for the winter months and returning in S18. Flights aren't out yet so we will have to wait and see, unless anyone has a link on the flights being cancelled all together?

[pamann]

The British are an odd bunch, wanting to go long-haul in the summer months during hurricane or monsoon season. Crazy when you consider that the weather is probably a lot better with just a 2-4 hour flight within Europe in the summer months.

I wouldn't be surprised however if we see MBJ/CUN return for summer '18 seeing as these are both key markets and growth areas for Thomson/TUI specifically.

[inOban]

I am always puzzled by the UK PAX going to Florida in the summer. The Americans must think we're mad. They only go there in the winter. Did you know that the Agusta golf course in Georgia closes for the summer after the Masters?

[compton3bravo]

Simply because it's CHEAP! Being to Florida many times but only in November, February and March.

[pamann]

Simply because it's CHEAP! Being to Florida many times but only in November, February and March.

Depends on your definition of 'Cheap' I guess. But two weeks in Orlando or Cancun in August is 99% more likely to be more expensive than the same two weeks spent in say Corfu.

[compton3bravo]

What I was meaning is that it is far cheaper in the summer than in the winter months - October to March - not comparing with European summer holidays.

[racedo]

The British are an odd bunch, wanting to go long-haul in the summer months during hurricane or monsoon season. Crazy when you consider that the weather is probably a lot better with just a 2-4 hour flight within Europe in the summer months.


LOL read some of the reviews of the Canary Island hotels from the summer on trip advisor or some of the travel reviews sites........
No air conditioning ,
too hot
too sunny
brouchure said it wouldn't be that hot.etc etc

Kind of like you heading to equator in Summer and you expect it to be mild.

Reading the traveller review sites is hilarious as Americans insist that for a 11am flight from Heathrow / Gatwick you should stay overnight as trains out of London won't work etc etc and be at airport for 7am. Europeans a lot more chilled thinking an hour is ok,

[compton3bravo]

Regarding Brits abroad - I know it is a little of piste so to speak - but my partner and I were having the usual fish meal at a chiringuito (beach bar) when a Brit shouted to a waiter 'do you do apple pies here mate'. We wanted to slide under the table. A friend of mine complained to me recently when visiting Vietnam and the Philippines that there were no tea or coffee making facilities in the hotel bedrooms. Brits abroad don't you just love them!j

[Trent dayne]

I remember a nice lady in Egypt shouting to her partner. "they don't do proper bacon" don't we just love them!

[davidjohnson6]

Been reading that Stansted-Osijek will stop later this month.
Anyone able to confirm ?

[_aax1]

It has already been terminated.

I believe it was because the airport refused to give FR concessions on advertising.

[LGS6753]

From Travel Mole:

Traffic dips at Stansted

There was a 2% drop in the number of passengers using Stansted last month compared with last February, which the airport blamed on the fact that 2015 was a leap year.

On a 28-day like-for-like basis, passenger numbers were up by 24,000, a 1.4% rise over the previous year, it said.

However, the airport also admitted that it had been affected by a temporary reduction in Ryanair capacity on some routes over the winter.

In the 12 months to February 2017, the airport handled 24.3 million passengers, a 6.1% increase over the previous year.

CEO Andrew Cowan said: "The slight drop in passenger numbers during February was anticipated due to the effects of the additional leap year day in 2016 and a temporary reduction in flight frequencies on some Ryanair routes at the tail end of the winter season as previously indicated by the airline last year.

"However, we have already seen this year Ryanair announce a host of new services and increased capacity on a range of popular routes for the summer season as well as British Airways confirming they will offer even more services from Stansted this year.

"This is in addition to Jet2.com preparing to launch its first ever flight and holiday programme in the south-east from Stansted at the end of the month, so we are extremely confident we will see strong growth return and the airport top 25 million passengers a year for the first time in the very near future."

[LTNman]

Maybe that overcrowded airport to the west had a 35 day February?:E

[_aax1]

easyJet grew seat capacity at STN by 6% during 2016, making it EZY's 2nd fastest growing 'London' airport after Luton.

Only tiny increase, but still good to see.


This summer, STN will represent approximately 10% of EZY's London capacity.

I still personally believe Paris and Zurich are two massive gaps in STN's route network. With demand for Zurich growing and CityJet/Flybe withdrawal of Paris Orly/CDG routes from LCY that accounted for 100,000+ pax p.a. EZY should jump on these routes here and finally show some firm commitment.

[FRatSTN]

New route STN to SZG starting 29th October 2017, 4x weekly.

Arr. STN 18:25 1357
Deps. STN 19:10 1357
A320

[mikkie4]

with the few flights that EZY do 30,308 people flew to CDG from SEN last year that aint bad for the 1st year ,so maybe another few flights from STN might be a good thing for both airports

[whitelighter]

Is that in addition to the Euro wings service to Munich?

[_aax1]

Yes.

From October Eurowings will operate up to 8 daily flights.

W17/18
Cologne (1-3 daily)
Hannover (6 weekly)
Stuttgart (1-2 daily)
Vienna (6 weekly)
Munich (6 weekly)
Salzburg (4 weekly)

[canberra97]

On Wednesday 22 March 2017 it was announced on RoutesOnline that Kuwait Airways will be using Stansted as a tech stop rather than Shannon on it's daily Kuwait to New York JFK route using Boeing 773 aircraft.

Arrival times at STN from Kuwait are at 14.00 with a departure to New York JFK at 16.30, the return flight from JFK to Kuwait will be non stop, the airline has no traffic rights from STN to JFK but I'm not aware if they do from Kuwait to STN.

Good to see Kuwait Airways using Stansted albeit only a tech stop and especially it being another middle eastern one adding to the airports ever increasing portfolio of airlines.

I hope MAG can eventually secure Emirates to STN in the forseable future and try and poach back EL AL and also maybe give a 'sweetener' to Vueling for transferring there small amount of flights over from Luton.

[pamann]

2.5 hours tech stop? I'm guessing passengers remain on board whilst it's refuelled? Crew change?

[Logohu]

2.5 hours tech stop? I'm guessing passengers remain on board whilst it's refuelled? Crew change?

Full re-screening of pax and baggage, as long as KWI airport security is not to Trump's liking. Previously the westbound KU flights to USA were going via SNN for same reason.

[FRatSTN]

Little change so far with EZYs W17/18 schedule. Perhaps the odd increased frequency here and there, No routes dropped and stays at 6x A319s and 1x A320 based.

[pamann]

Quite surprised that Malaga isn't even daily in the winter? Though I'm guessing this isn't the first winter the schedule has been sporadic? It's been a while since I've taken any notice of the EZY schedules.

It's a shame they don't make more of STN. I did wonder if it would be used as a bargaining tool against LTN, but if that was the case you'd expect them to do more than launch a once weekly service to MAH this summer to give it some credibility?

My only thoughts are they must be making some yield on the routes they operate ex STN to make the operation worthwhile?

[LTNman]

EasyJet's relationship with Stansted is still probably better than Ryanair's relationship with Luton after their raiding party on Luton's most popular route although I can still remember the big announcement by Stansted management about their agreement with easyjet for a massive increase in numbers. For whatever reason it never happened.

[whitelighter]

I think the Flybe slot sale at Gatwick happened.
It's 100% logical that EZY put their effort into maximising their operation at EGKK.
Luton is their home airport so EGSS will always be at best their 3rd London priority.

Every spare airframe goes to EGKK or EGGW while there is capacity. Knowing the new airframes from airbus are late I'm actually surprised EGSS has retained based numbers over the past couple of years. As capacity starts to run out there is a chance of EZY expansion at EGSS in the next couple of years but I suspect only on routes with decent yeild where they don't fly/have enough capacity from EGGW

[canberra97]

whitelighter

Without coming across as being pedantic but could you possibly use the correct airport IATA codes than your own personal ones as your post is rather confusing to say the least.

Gatwick LGW
Luton LTN
Stansted STN

[dc9-32]

I think he is using ICAO codes albeit 50% of them:

Gatwick EGKK
Luton EGGW
Stansted EGSS

[whitelighter]

Forgive me, I assumed we all knew the airports under discussion were in the U.K. So omitted the EG from the designator.

[pamann]

I think the IATA codes are generally easier for everyone.

[_aax1]

So with the Kuwait airways transit KWI STN JFK flight how will the passengers transit?

With 330+ capacity it will be the largest regular pax jet into STN, with that many pax how will they physically transit? Will they screen and stay in sat 1 or will they somehow be re-screened and sent back to the main departure lounge? Possibly spending £££ in the main terminal/shopping centre.
2.5 hr transit time is quite long.

[scodaman]

STN-LDY with Ryanair finished today after 17 years.

[whitelighter]

When does the BMI replacement start (assuming LDY = Londonderry)

[canberra97]

whitelighter

BMI commence STN to LDY on the 02 May 2017.

The answer to your question plus your recent enquiry concerning the LGW to CPT flights on the Gatwick forum can easily be obtained by searching Google or the relevant airports Wikipedia pages, honest it takes seconds it really does and it's so much nicer when you find the information yourself.

[whitelighter]

I haven't posted on the Gatwick thread any such enquiry

Though thanks for the info on the BMI service

[canberra97]

whitelighter

My apologies it was someone else on the Gatwick forum that asked about the BA Cape Town flights not yourself.

[Buster the Bear]

Probably a daft question, but why does a Boeing 777-300 need a tech stop? 5,500 nautical miles, so around 12-13 hour sector?

[canberra97]

It's not necessarily a 'tech stop' for refuelling as obviously a Boeing 777-300ER can make it from Kuwait to JFK non stop, as with the previous Shannon tech stop and similar to Pakistan Internationals stop at Manchester on route from Pakistan to JFK it has more to do with US immigration issues as the country doesn't allow direct flights from these two countries. Am sure someone else can put it in a more eloquent fashion.

[Buster the Bear]

Deeper investigation.

Did Kuwait Kick Out United Airlines In Retaliation Against US Government Non-Discrimination Rules? - View from the Wing (http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/10/24/breaking-kuwait-kicks-out-united-airlines-retaliating-against-us-government-non-discrimination-rules/)

[rutankrd]

Deeper investigation.

Did Kuwait Kick Out United Airlines In Retaliation Against US Government Non-Discrimination Rules? - View from the Wing (http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/10/24/breaking-kuwait-kicks-out-united-airlines-retaliating-against-us-government-non-discrimination-rules/)

Kuwait Airport has apparently failed to meet the levels of sterile security demanded by the TSA and associated US agencies in addition to the Israeli Passport issues.

As such they are currently prohibited from flying none stop services TO the US

For some months KU117 has transited Shannon westbound however with no traffic rights.

At Shannon everyone is trooped off and re-screened to US standards however problems are twofold

1. What to do with anyone failing re-screening in Eire (and this does happen)
2. How to manage crew hours since no base is near by.

So Kuwait have been looking for alternative solutions and the most ideal would be to reinstate the LHR transit of KU101 however those slots are now used for an increased frequency LHR-KWI service.

MAG group were approached and Manchester considered for the transit operation as the airport has experience with such operation with PIA

However the problem remains how to handle those failing screening and there return east

The home office were not convinced by escorted mini busing south to return those to Kuwait, or of the legality of routing them back through third country such as Doha or UAE direct from Manchester .

The best compromise seems to be Stansted it meets the security standards required and can be relatively quiet at sometimes of the day

Passengers can be trooped off re-screened and trooped back on. Any one failing screening can be detained and returned east after a nice escorted mini bus ride round to Slough Windsor and Hounslow regional

Same for crew change other way round M25.

[davidjohnson6]

Seems like KU are going to an awful lot of trouble and expense if their home base airport cannot get security standards up to scratch. Could the Kuwaiti Govt not step in and get the airport to find a way to solve the problem ? Secondary screening at the gate is not impossible for the rest of the world if needs must...

[stuinn]

First aircraft at Stansted (G-JZHW) ready for Thursday's launch.

[FRatSTN]

Both of the initial two aircraft are at STN now for the launch on 30th March. The second, G-JZHU arrived around 1/2 an hour ago in Jet2holidays livery. G-JZHW arrived yesterday. Will eventually build up to seven based aircraft by the peak Summer season.

[LTNman]

What is happening at Stansted as Luton is taking many diversions?

[eggc]

Protesters on the runway I think.

[LTNman]

Seems that protesters who believe that no one should be deported and that the uk should be an open house have surrounded an aircraft that had deportees aboard.

[davidjohnson6]

We're a democracy and people want their right to public protest, even if the time and place of the protest makes life (temporarily) awkward for others. The pain-in-the-butt nature of this protest makes society in the UK healthy in the long run.
Now if Mr/Ms Plod could kindly remove them so others can carry on with their flying activities...

[LTNman]

They should deport the protesters:mad:

[mikkie4]

AGREE 100%......Questions will/need to be asked how they got onto the airfield...by passing security ...not good

[Buster the Bear]

Inside job? Gaining airside access should be impossible, but recently a 'chap' was picked up allegedly walking along a taxiway at Luton! I don't think that event was widely reported?

[fireflybob]

No doubt the "alleged" protesters will get a few hour community service.

It would be great if the airlines brought a civil action action against them for their losses but I don't suppose the protesters have got that much money in the bank.

[dc9-32]

Cancel their benefits with immediate effect, then prosecute for making illegal entry into a secured area.

[southside bobby]

Anyways......moving on...Good to see the inaugural Jet2 flights ALC/FAO leave within 40mins of each other this AM....

[Habana2118]

Whom is doing Jet 2 ramp handling?

[Double Hydco]

Whom is doing Jet 2 ramp handling?

Menzies.....

[Navpi]

Kuwait Airways-tech stop

Is it still coming?

Suggestion is that Manchester are demanding it reverts to that airport after an internal spat!

[LAX_LHR]

Not sure of any internal spat but looks like it is going via MAN now.

[whitelighter]

Not sure of any internal spat but looks like it is going via MAN now.

According to someone on the MAN thread only until May 19th when it switches to STN

[LAX_LHR]

May be incorrect, as a lot being done to set up the MAN stop, just for a months operation
, the whole thing seems very confused right now.

[daz211]

Planning has been secured for the £130 million dedicated arrivals terminal which will allow the existing terminal building to expand and be redeveloped for departures only

[southside bobby]

Another hefty investment & gearing up for future max use of the existing runway...Well done MAG as they state also since acquiring STN traffic has increased 40%...(admittedly from the low point inherited)..In lieu of the transformation also announced is a further increase in capacity-(with work to commence later this Summer)-within the existing departures inc more check-in desks & more seating & more restaurants airside......When complete STN will be the only airport in the UK with stand alone Arrivals & Departure Terminals....

[LTNman]

Their airport at Bournemouth has the same arrangement.

[canberra97]

I should imagine Satelite Four will be the next investment to be announced then SAT 3 and SAT 4 could be purely Ryanair releasing extra gates in SAT 2 for any Jet2 expansion.

[FRatSTN]

I believe that is broadly the plan longer term

[WHBM]

Planning has been secured for the £130 million dedicated arrivals terminal which will allow the existing terminal building to expand and be redeveloped for departures only
Here's the picture. It doesn't look particularly separate as it's just butted up as an extension of the current terminal. Which it would have to be to allow access to the train station etc.

Stansted Airport announces new £130m arrivals terminal - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-39507329)

But what an architectural mish-mash. The architects have gone out of their way to design something which, while of comparable height etc as the current building, is just jarring and out of keeping in almost every respect. Whatever happened to good design ?

[dc9-32]

And LHR terminals all look the same.....

[LTNman]

At Heathrow all of the terminals are separated by distance. This looks like a single building even though it is not so looks a little odd. Once inside they will no doubt be connected so passengers and visitors will feel as though they are in one building. At Bournemouth I had to step outside to cross the gap which felt very strange.

Stansted has the luxury of plenty of land for expansion. That very fact means it will have a great future and should rival Gatwick in terms of capacity for its single runway.

[The96er]

But what an architectural mish-mash. The architects have gone out of their way to design something which, while of comparable height etc as the current building, is just jarring and out of keeping in almost every respect. Whatever happened to good design ?

That seems to be the MAG way - I believe it's called 'Value-engineering'. Just look at the proposed expansion of MAN T2, not exactly a beacon for good architecture !

[bananamanuk]

It is good to see Stansted growing and with more variety of carriers and the investment in new facilities is definitely needed as the terminal is nothing like the calm space it was originally designed and intended to be. That said I think it's sad they have opted for a cheap looking add on structure rather than in keeping with the Foster Associates terminal design. Maybe it will all look fantastic in a few years time but personally I think it should be built in the existing style.

[Logohu]

The existing terminal was built in the BAA era, when money was no object and appearance was more important than profit.

I suppose if the day comes when airlines like Ryanair and their customers are happy to pay more for airport charges and ticket prices then MAG will build them whatever they want. Since that's never going to happen the best we can hope for is "functional". It's the UK plc way.

[dc9-32]

And this will happen at STN long before even a bulldozer gets access to start expansion at LHR ! In 5 years time, the MP's will still be debating LHR so as to keep their jobs whereas STN just goes ahead. I admit, we're not talking about another runway at STN but even so........

[daz211]

With the heat stepping up on longhaul particularly to the US from Gatwick with Norwegian I wonder if the likes so VS or BA will ever consider starting up at Stansted it's an untapped market and the demand is definitely there to be honest I'm supposed it hasn't happened this summer
Continental and American managed it years ago with good loads
In my opinion Virgin would do very well out of Stansted
In a slightly different market BA have been surprised with demand from Stansted on its holiday city and ski destinations from Stansted so surly its only a matter of time.

[WHBM]

Continental and American managed it years ago with good loads

No they didn't, it was a financial flop, which is why they were withdrawn. The economy cabin was filled through various discounters, business and first just didn't sell. If you thought there were pax seated in there, they would be upgrades in the normal US carrier fashion.

Incidentally, when AA ran (in 1992-3) from Stansted to Chicago with 767s, they ran a competition, prize a couple of transatlantic tickets, for what US onward destination had the most onward connecting pax from their first month's flights. I remember picking up the entry form when passing through the STN terminal, and dropping it in the box at the AA desk. Didn't win. What do you think the correct answer was ?

[daz211]

No they didn't, it was a financial flop, which is why they were withdrawn. The economy cabin was filled through various discounters, business and first just didn't sell. If you thought there were pax seated in there, they would be upgrades in the normal US carrier fashion.

Incidentally, when AA ran (in 1992-3) from Stansted to Chicago with 767s, they ran a competition, prize a couple of transatlantic tickets, for what US onward destination had the most onward connecting pax from their first month's flights. I remember picking up the entry form when passing through the STN terminal, and dropping it in the box at the AA desk. Didn't win. What do you think the correct answer was ?

That really surprised me do you know for fact, I worked at the airport during this time and the flights always seeemed full but even if your correct the airport and travel in general has moved on much faster than even I would have dreamed of I for one and there is no way I'm alone in thinking this is I hate traveling to LHR and even LGW I live in Essex and it's not that far to either airport but the M25 is just to much I connect through AMS now when traveling to the US which I do approx 6x a year I'm more than confident that scheduled longhaul from Stansted will work now not only in one direction but with the network of destinations from Stansted people traveling from the US have a massive amount of choice for visiting European cities and the Mediterranean.
But my main point is Norwegian will definitely have an impact on passenger numbers on BA VS etc so why not get in there first and establish at Stansted.

[canberra97]

daz211

'Continental and American managed it for years with good loads'

As far as I am aware

Continental (Boeing 757) only operated to Newark from June 2000 to September 2001 (terminated after 9/11 never to return as it was a very marginal route)

American (Boeing 762) operated to Chicago from June 1992 to April 1993 (having lost $10 million on the route)

American (Boeing 763) operated to New York JFK from October 2007 to July 2008 (in response to EOS (Boeing 757) and Maxjet (Boeing 762) and the flights were heavily discounted)

Good loads maybe but no one was making any real returns.

I share your passion regarding Stansted airport but you won't be seeing British Airways flying long haul from the airport, a few BACF sun and ski routes as at present with perhaps an expansion into more European destinations going forward.

Virgin Atlantic may well offer an Orlando flight in coming years and possibly a Las Vegas flight but nothing more than that.

Any possible transatlantic connection from Stansted in the future will more than likely come from JetBlue if and when they announce any transatlantic expansion in the next couple of years.

It's a pity that Norwegian moved their London operations from STN to LGW a few years ago as the expansion from that airline since then has been amazing to watch especially their long haul flying, imagine if all that was at STN rather than LGW!

[goldeneye]

Thomas Cook and TUI Airlines both have flights to Orlando (MCO & SFB respectively), Don't think there is enough demand for a VS service to Orlando given than MT and TOM are only operating these in high season.

TUI have weekly flights to Cancun and Montego Bay, MT operate LAS and CUN in high season. I would think that they would be the most likely to bolster long haul at Stansted before VS would operate from a third London airport.

[canberra97]

I was referring to scheduled flights rather than the charter flights operated by TCX and TUI.

When I was referring to Virgin Atlantic, i did say in 'coming years', just like they have done at GLA and to a certain extent BFS.

I am sure and I do hope that both TCX and TUI will expand their long haul charter operations from STN in the foreseeable future but looking forward that might encourage Virgin Atlantic to offer a flight from STN to Orlando MCO in a similar way to GLA that already had competition to Florida from both TCX and TUI.

[01475]

If the huge networks of flights to Europe accepted transfers then I'm sure it could work, but other than that you're going to prefer to book a connection somewhere they call it a connection...

If Ryanair do start allowing transfers then I suspect Ryanair Atlantic is a logical progression. Other than that I can't see it happening.

[daz211]

If the huge networks of flights to Europe accepted transfers then I'm sure it could work, but other than that you're going to prefer to book a connection somewhere they call it a connection...

If Ryanair do start allowing transfers then I suspect Ryanair Atlantic is a logical progression. Other than that I can't see it happening.


Connecting and interlining are not as important as you may think I know a lot of people who travel STN-AMS (easyJet) and STN-DUB (Ryanair) for onward travel to the US instead of using LGW and LHR both these routes are self connections point to point also there is enough foot fall between the US and London alone to support at least a daily flight from STN to New York.

[canberra97]

I am definitely not doubting that Stansted could sustain a daily flight to New York it surely could along with a daily EK flight to Dubai but IMHO I think that any New York flight we'll be down to JetBlue 'if and when they announce transatlantic operations' which seem to have some relevance if you have read other aviation forums of late.

If JetBlue do intend flying JFK to London they would have no transatlantic competition at Stansted and it could feed it's New York JFK hub along with feed by Ryanair at this end.

[WHBM]

there is enough foot fall between the US and London alone to support at least a daily flight from STN to New York.
You may well feel so, but the substantial spread of both departure times and operators from Heathrow means that a (maybe considerable) proportion of those who appear geographically favourable to Stansted would continue to go to Heathrow.

If the daily flight left at say 1100 you would be looking at an 0900 checkin, losing any business pax who wanted to go into the office first, and likewise those high-paying business travellers who change their flight, forwards or backwards, on the day as their meetings change. Heathrow allows this.


Likewise if I am a US high-mileage traveller with miles (possibly backed up by a corporate discount agreement as well) built up mainly on United, going to Canary Wharf, a Delta flight from JFK to Stansted won't have that much appeal.

[Alsacienne]

Somewhat later on in the thread but still perhaps interesting ...

As a local resident (and user) when the current terminal opened, the USPs of the design were

1) that it was only a short distance from the front door to the shuttle to the gates ... and flat, so that everyone could have easy access and

2) that there would be plenty of natural daylight. (That seems so far-fetched once you enter the shopping mall airside nowadays!)

[leadinghand]

How are Menzies getting on with the Jet2 contract.The grapevine suggests they are not overachieving.

[whitelighter]

How are Menzies getting on with the Jet2 contract.The grapevine suggests they are not overachieving.

With only 2 airframes is it a little early to judge?
They seem to be leaving on time if that's a measure of anything

[leadinghand]

Its BECAUSE there are only 2 A/C,but maybe you are right,its early days

[_aax1]

I think it's wrong to say that STN couldn't support a JFK service, STN is the closest major airport to the financial district and Canary Wharf in terms of travel time compared to LHR and LGW. It's also located in one of the most affluent areas of the UK, with Cambridge up the road and IT businesses in particular growing there at a high rate, there is plenty of demand.

We're going to see major changes in the long haul market in coming years with the rise of long haui LCC's and new aircraft types such as the A321LR. My guess is that what we saw with the rise of low cost, high frequency european travel will happen with the long haul US market in particular. Frequent flyer clubs will become less and less incentified and demand will focus more on price and connivence. I am a massive believer in Stelios' theory on the ignition price within aviation, if the price is low enough, demand will create itself. Based on these reasons STN could easily support a NY service.

However the airport is less known the US travellers and has a bad reputation within the industry because of it's Ryanair LCC image and a history of failed long-haul routes for whatever the reasons were.

The airport will get a NY service eventually but I hope they're wise in who they chase for one as it has to be a success, the likes of Thomas Cook to JFK would be a mistake. A Norwegian 787 service to a MAJOR NY airport would be a good fit.

The truth is the airport cannot cope with any new carriers until work is done to check-in and the main departure lounge waiting area, both are extremely overcrowded. They should never of knocked down Zone J/K.

[_aax1]

Also if Norwegian Long Haul or any other carrier is serious about interlining with Ryanair, it will be most appropriate at STN with the sheer volume of destinations and frequencies to destinations across Europe.

[LAX_LHR]

The airport will get a NY service eventually but I hope they're wise in who they chase for one as it has to be a success, the likes of Thomas Cook to JFK would be a mistake. A Norwegian 787 service to a MAJOR NY airport would be a good fit.

Just a question, but why would TCX be a mistake?

They offer a daily service to JFK from MAN, which is probably right and fit for STN to have too at this moment in time, no point going more than daily at this stage. From MAN, They also offer LAX/SFO(not OAK like D8), MIA, BOS and MCO as well as a plethora of Caribbean and rumours of TPA/SAN, which would be a great route portfolio for STN if they could be convinced. I think people overlook just how much TCX can do, and what it currently is doing for MAN, they seems to be pulled in by the Norwegian hype while TCX just get on with it.

Always gets me how enthusiasts of an airport with no service at all to places then become very picky of who should serve the route, surely any service is better than none, it may also stimulate the market?

[LTNman]

I think it's wrong to say that STN couldn't support a JFK service, STN is the closest major airport to the financial district and Canary Wharf in terms of travel time compared to LHR and LGW.

When Crossrail opens Heathrow to Canary Wharf travel time reduces to 40 minutes according to the Crossrail website and that service is direct from most of the terminals.

[_aax1]

Jet2 to launch weekly Grenoble service. 1 weekly Saturdays, commences 23 Dec.

[FRatSTN]

Looks as if TOM have cancelled all long-haul for S18.

Remains 2 based aircraft but down to 26 weekly departures.

Cancelled Routes
Antalya
Cancun
Montego Bay
Orlando-Sanford

Frequency Cuts
Heraklion

Hardly much of a fight to Jet2!

[paully]

[QUOTE=FRatSTN;9746380]Looks as if TOM have cancelled all long-haul for S18.


Hardly much of a fight to Jet2![/QUOTE

Maybe thats what Jet2 had reckoned on when they first decided to open shop there.

[LTNman]

Are they retreating to South of the Thames or is Gatwick down as well?

[pamann]

Here's what's planned

Corfu - 2 weekly (Monday & Friday)
Dalaman - 2 weekly (Monday & Thursday)
Faro - 2 weekly (Thursday & Sunday)
Fuerteventura - 1 weekly (Wednesday)
Heraklion - 1 weekly (Thursday)
Ibiza - 3 weekly (Wednesday, Friday & Saturday)
Kefalonia - 1 weekly (Sunday)
Kos - 1 weekly (Tuesday)
Larnaca - 1 weekly (Sunday)
Las Palmas - 1 weekly (Monday)
Mahon - 2 weekly (Monday & Friday)
Palma Mallorca - 3 weekly (Tuesday, Thursday & Saturday)
Paphos - 2 weekly (Wednesday & Saturday)
Rhodes - 2 weekly (Wednesday & Saturday)
Tenerife - 1 weekly (Friday)
Zakynthos - 1 weekly (Tuesday)


So apart from the loss of AYT and one less HER no real changes to the short-haul programme compared to this year.

[BFS BHD]

Jet2 Summer 2018 being put on sale at the minute. Possibly another aircraft for next year.

[FRatSTN]

Looking a bit more encouraging than Thomson's release.

Increases to 8x based aircraft with several additional sectors flying in on ALC and PMI based aircraft.

No cancelled routes with a number of frequency increases.

Brings total so far from 96 up to 114 weekly departures with still a few gaps in the schedule, so new routes I dare say are imminent.

[pamann]

8 aircraft is staggering!! That's probably more than Thomson and Thomas Cook base at Stansted and Luton combined!

I don't believe there was ever this big a gap in the market. It's pretty clear as to why TUI are making capacity cuts north of the river.

[southside bobby]

Fantastic news....Jet2 to 8 a/c base in just one year of ops....must soon leapfrog into their 2nd largest base after that other MAG airport....& yes looks to be having a detrimental effect on sun route numbers @ neighbouring airports in Essex & Beds.....

[canberra97]

Looks as if TOM have cancelled all long-haul for S18.

Remains 2 based aircraft but down to 26 weekly departures.

Cancelled Routes
Antalya
Cancun
Montego Bay
Orlando-Sanford

Frequency Cuts
Heraklion

Hardly much of a fight to Jet2!


I mentioned in a previous post 3848 a few weeks ago that TUI would not be flying long haul from STN in summer 2018 but it was disputed by others.

[pamann]

I think maybe one person might have had a different view to that of yours. I think to the rest of us the fact that CUN had been dropped for Winter 17/18, we knew what was coming. Anyhow, if it makes you feel better, you were right.

[canberra97]

But at the time of my post 3848 I wasn't assuming that TUI would be ceasing long haul operations from STN for summer 2018 it I had actually read it before hand hence my post regarding it.

With CUN being withdrawn for Winter 17/18 I wasn't actually expecting any other long haul
destinations being cut a complete opposite actually as I expected CUN to be replaced by another long haul destination. When I had previously read what I had regarding a total withdrawal of long haul from STN I was shocked and now it has been officially confirmed.

And as you politely commented, I was right :-)

[_aax1]

Such a shame of the loss of TOM long haul after this summer.

I can understand why they wouldn't operate Cancun through the winter again as loads and yield have been rather poor on the route outside the summer.

I'm quite surprised they've abandoned long haul entirely as Orlando flights for this summer are almost full already and Montego Bay seems to be performing well sales wise. Both SFB and CUN were at 95%+ loads throughout the summer last year.

The demand is there but a complete lack of advertising and constant changes in the days of operations throughout the schedule I can imagine affected loads. TOM may want to focus on BHX and MAN where the crew and aircraft are based, as apposed to ferrying the aircraft down and back every week.

The reality is Jet2 will have more aircraft at Stansted than Thomson and Thomas Cook at Luton and Stansted combined next year. There is going to be over capacity on the short haul routes. I would of thought they would focus a bit more on long haul at STN because of this?

I'm sure there will be a new TOM short haul route announced with two gaps in the peak summer schedule to have the standard 4 flights a day schedule on two aircraft. Maybe Santorini, Mykonos, Preveza or Catania if they want a unserved STN route?

Thomas Cook short haul schedule for next year appears the same with two based aircraft between May and October with a 3rd based in July and August. Long haul appears to also been cut by 50% with just one long haul aircraft as apposed to two, although the second aircraft may yet to be sourced with the air tanker lease ending.

[FRatSTN]

There's no gaps in TOMs schedule for new routes unfortunately. Two flights a week do a W-pattern away from STN, one to HUY from PMI on a Tuesday and the other to BRS from FAO on a Sunday.

[_aax1]

Oh that is a shame. Suppose STN are lucky they haven't lost a entire aircraft as Luton has.

[southside bobby]

Mentioned already in the trade press but not on here I believe....RYR bringing forward the start of 5 new STN routes from start of the Winter scheds as first proposed to the first week of September....comprising... Aalborg..Kiev..Lviv... Oradea & Pardubice...

[L1649]

Fantastic news....Jet2 to 8 a/c base in just one year of ops....must soon leapfrog into their 2nd largest base after that other MAG airport...

LBA currently has 13 based aircraft.

[DC3 Dave]

That's strange - I thought there were only grass strips north of STN/LTN!

[FRatSTN]

Stansted's looking a firm No.3 for Jet2.com in Summer 2018 behind Leeds/Bradford and Manchester

[southside bobby]

Excellent...I guess that`s the sentiment I was pursuing...A great & solid start for Jet2.com @ STN & into a firm #3 base for them next year all in a comparatively short time scale....

[davidjohnson6]

I know that Easyjet and Ryanair are much larger than Jet2 and either has the resources to win a price war against Jet2 if they want the fight, but what impact has Jet2 had on Easyjet/Ryanair ? It can't be just Thomas Cook and Thomson who are losing out with 7 or 8 new Jet2 aircraft flying beach routes

I can see direct competition on the following routes flown by Jet2 from Stansted (more if you include Luton):
Easyjet - Malaga, Palma de Mallorca, Dalaman, Dubrovnik, Geneva, Ibiza, Menorca, Split, Zakynthos
Ryanair - Alicante, Corfu, Faro, Fuerteventura, Girona, Gran Canaria, Ibiza, Lanzarote, Malaga, Palma de Mallorca, Paphos, Pula, Reus, Rhodes, Salzburg and Tenerife

[01475]

I don't think Jet2 so much compete with EasyJet / Ryanair as show them the size of a market that they're missing out on by the way they market themselves. They must surely be tempted to make a better than half-hearted attempt at entering Jet2's holiday market?

Competing would be predominantly an IT and marketing thing, backed by a few extra customer service staff that could be outsourced?

[southside bobby]

It could well be the case Jet2.com are taking more than custom from just STN based services & airlines...Jet2.com are advertising extensively throughout the South & as STN is their only Southern base it perhaps stands to reason they are pulling from more than just the STN catchment...You may well need to look @ LTN which you bracketed & with not too much hope for further sun flight growth @ SEN I would expect....time will tell...

[Expressflight]

davidjohnson6

By coincidence yesterday I had a look at easyJet prices on the affected routes from STN, LTN and SEN this summer to see if there was any visible impact from the new Jet2 operation at STN. I couldn't detect any to be honest and certainly STN prices looked pretty firm in comparison to LTN and SEN. Obviously I couldn't compare these with last year's prices and it could just be that LTN and SEN are equally affected. SEN is offering additional capacity to PMI this year so it should be possible to look at their actual pax numbers at the end of the summer to see if growth is proportionate to the increased capacity.

Edit: I posted before I saw southside bobby's post so maybe I have partly reflected his thoughts inadvertently.

[Cuillin Hills]

I suspect Jet2's main targets are Thomas Cook, Tui and Monarch - particularly across the Birmingham, Luton, Stansted catchment areas.

Possibly extending into the Gatwick catchment area south of the Thames.

[FRatSTN]

Five new routes showing for Summer 2018... Almeria, Bodrum, Kefalonia, Thessaloniki and Verona

[wowzz]

According to the Daily Mail ( I know!) there were major issues this morning for 4 hours due to a breakdown in the x-ray equipment (confirmed by airport management) The pictures posted looked pretty horrendous. Any chance of any compensation for the many pax that missed their flights?

[davidjohnson6]

I very much doubt airlines at STN will pay a penny without a judgement from a senior court. MAG will say there is no contract with a passenger (unless a senior court thinks otherwise)
Best guess is that pax will just have to accept it and hope airlines are lenient when selling a replacement ticket

[wowzz]

I very much doubt airlines at STN will pay a penny without a judgement from a senior court. MAG will say there is no contract with a passenger (unless a senior court thinks otherwise)
Best guess is that pax will just have to accept it and hope airlines are lenient when selling a replacement ticket

I agree that the airlines are not liable, however MAG is. I assume that travel insurance should cover a the cost of the missed flights, but probably not for subsequent expenses.

[davidjohnson6]

wowzz - I agree there might well be a case for saying MAG is liable, but MAG will be very careful in what they say publicly to avoid admitting any liability, pointing to the lack of any payment by a passenger to the airport (contract law 101 - no consideration generally means no contract). A passenger would have to go to significant effort and expense in the High Court before any kind of liability might be found. Alternatively there is the option of complaining to the CAA but this will probably not achieve a worthwhile result

MAG *should* in my view face some penalty for this but without politicians focussing on getting reelected, neither the Dept for Transport or CAA will want to get involved. Passenger just has to put up with it.

[wowzz]

wowzz - I agree there might well be a case for saying MAG is liable, but MAG will be very careful in what they say publicly to avoid admitting any liability, pointing to the lack of any payment by a passenger to the airport (contract law 101 - no consideration generally means no contract). A passenger would have to go to significant effort and expense in the High Court before any kind of liability might be found. Alternatively there is the option of complaining to the CAA but this will probably not achieve a worthwhile result

MAG *should* in my view face some penalty for this but without politicians focussing on getting reelected, neither the Dept for Transport or CAA will want to get involved. Passenger just has to put up with it.

I suppose you could argue that the air fare includes the airport handling fee (albeit indirectly). However, as you say, it is unlikely to be argued in court. Pity!

[wowzz]

Good to know that apologies have been issued for any 'inconvenience caused '. Not sure if that helps in the scheme of things.

[daz211]

Please we all work or have worked and some on here just dream of working in this industry therefore we should all know that these things happen and will always happen at some airport somewhere in the world the type of business that a airport airline or even just the massive complex technical side of the industry means one day something will fail it's the joys of travel I'm not saying it's not inconvenient just inevitably just one day of moving thousands of people through a thin gap in the infrastructure went wrong that's all

[ATNotts]

Please we all work or have worked and some on here just dream of working in this industry therefore we should all know that these things happen and will always happen at some airport somewhere in the world the type of business that a airport airline or even just the massive complex technical side of the industry means one day something will fail it's the joys of travel I'm not saying it's not inconvenient just inevitably just one day of moving thousands of people through a thin gap in the infrastructure went wrong that's all
You are so right, and the army of Twitter and Facebook warriors need to remember that throughout their lives sh!t happens, and when it does, generally, as we always have done, you have to endure it, pick yourself up, dust yourself down - and carry on.

[wowzz]

I think we can all agree that these things happen. However, there seems to have been a distinct lack of management skills - one person fainting, no information being given, no queue control. Looks like there is a distinct lack of crisis control.

[daz211]

I think we can all agree that these things happen. However, there seems to have been a distinct lack of management skills - one person fainting, no information being given, no queue control. Looks like there is a distinct lack of crisis control.

Wowzz unless you were there I don't think you are qualified to comment
I don't think you have thought about what you are saying
At that time of the day and from the pictures all over social media it's easy to see nothing could have been done to sort the situation out any quicker and if you think about it 400 passengers is a very small amount of people if you consider how many flights were departing at that time of the day just how would you start managing that amount of people into any sort of a micro queue and regarding a passenger fainting just how could this have been prevented
We all agree it was a bad morning at the airport but this sort of things happen all the time all over the world I'm sure the airlines and airport worked together as best they could to get people to where they needed to be as quickly as possible yes people were unhappy but this is life things happen we deal with it and move on.

[DC3 Dave]

I can't believe that '**** happens' is an acceptable or appropriate response and I doubt very much anyone directly affected would take that view whether or not they use social media.

If a flight is cancelled for good reason, that's one thing. But the airline is required to either refund the ticket or make alternative provision for its customers including consequential costs such as hotel accommodation.

It's a pretty poor attitude if a multi-billion pound industry wrings its hands and takes a 'Not my problem, guv' stance.

[FRatSTN]

Couple of Eurowings/Germanwings increases now on sale at weekends over the pre-christmas period to Cologne, Hanover and Stuttgart.

Also Hanover increases from 6x to 9x weekly on a permanent basis from 01 NOV 2017.

[daz211]

I can't believe that '**** happens' is an acceptable or appropriate response and I doubt very much anyone directly affected would take that view whether or not they use social media.

If a flight is cancelled for good reason, that's one thing. But the airline is required to either refund the ticket or make alternative provision for its customers including consequential costs such as hotel accommodation.

It's a pretty poor attitude if a multi-billion pound industry wrings its hands and takes a 'Not my problem, guv' stance.

Pick the parts you want to read !
**** dose happen but I also said the airport worked hard with the airlines to sort the situation for the people involved not once has anyone wrote the airport or airlines said nothing I can do go away it sounds to me your making up your own story I had family traveling to Ireland they missed the flight which was held 15 mins so the airline waited as long as possible they were re booked FREE of charge on to the next flight so I guess all that could have been done was done and yes I stand by my statement **** does happen this was a technical issue not a deliberate act to make people miss flights

[southside bobby]

Anyways Anyways........After a month or two of flat lining Stansted announces it`s busiest ever April for 2.177M = +11%.....Yes Easter helping with the totals a given...Moving ever closer to the magic 25M P.A. airport league....Nice one MAG...

[RAT 5]

I don't get it. Airlines are obliged under EU law to compensate pax for severely delayed or cancelled flights due to their cock-up. Airports achieve the same result of pax missing flights due to their cock-up and get off scot free. The end result is great loss to the pax. One has to pay the other doesn't. Doesn't seem right to me. Even if the airlines operate with sympathy the next available flight might be days away and useless. It needs sorting.

[daz211]

Hainan Airlines has filed Beijing - Stockholm - Prague - Beijing A330 svc on 12JUL17, Beijing - Prague - London Stansted - Beijing 25JUL17

[davidjohnson6]

daz - are these 2 flights from Hainan simply special charters or are tickets intended for sale to the public ? The only thing I could find on Prague-Stansted was a one way fare in economy for £1,300 on a flight lasting 2 hours - clearly not intended to be purchased by the general public

[daz211]

To be honest I can't find any info on this what so ever you have found much more than I can so I guess a one off but for what reason I don't know

[STN406]

First time poster so please be kind.

Was wondering the reason why Kuwait Airways decided not to swap SNN for STN. This is because I work in the terminal building daily and saw on two occasions Kuwait Airways engineers being taken through the staff security point into departures.

[Bearpit]

Jet2 look to be adding shopping trips to New York from Stansted! Three departures in November and 1 in December...

[LAX_LHR]

First time poster so please be kind.

Was wondering the reason why Kuwait Airways decided not to swap SNN for STN. This is because I work in the terminal building daily and saw on two occasions Kuwait Airways engineers being taken through the staff security point into departures.

The basis of the story is:

Kuwait use SNN as a security stop over as the US isn't allowing it to fly direct.

SNN then proposed a downgrade of their fire cover which meant the KU B77W couldn't use SNN. STN/MAN were looked at as a replacement.

STN initially won out, but then STN bosses realised their transit lounge wasn't up to the job for the flight, so, a switch back to MAN was proposed.

It then transpires that a deal had been done with SNN to keep the fire cover for the B77W, so, the flight is staying there.

[FRatSTN]

The New York trips also appear to be on their A330 aircraft and not the 757 :D

[Council Van]

The New York trips also appear to be on their A330 aircraft and not the 757 :D

Titan B767.

[AirsideOps787]

99% sure it will be their A330 (well AirTanker's!). 'WD is configured in Y265, and Jet2 are marketing it as their A330 with Y327.

[davidjohnson6]

It's now June and Stansted should be performing at something close to the expected peak summer level. Furthermore, flights in the July/August peak should by now have relatively few seats left to be sold

Ryanair review route performance, and the weakest performers with no obvious prospect of significant improvement get dropped. Ryanair's Stansted routes are no exception - following the end of summer 2016, routes from Stansted to Kos and Parma no longer operate, and Oslo-Rygge were dropped from the network completely in favour of Oslo-Gardemoen. Further details can be found at
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/245928-stansted-2-a-177.html#post9405693

Osijek has already gone, and I'm trying to think about what else might not be around for summer 2018. Assuming there is no rescuer on the horizon, I'm guessing Ryanair may end up deploying a lot more capacity at short notice to German and/or Italian bases - possibly in large enough numbers that they may find themselves low on airframes and needing to cannibalise some existing mediocre performing routes
Would anyone care to suggest what Stansted routes Ryanair might drop at the end of October 2017 ?

[AirportPlanner1]

Impossible to say, if any go at all. Three routes dropped in two years must be the lowest since the turn of the millennium. Some may swap airports as with Oslo, but that's not really the same thing.

If you consider the direction of the company there are still lots of provincial French destinations and minor cities that on paper would be vulnerable. Based on yield, LUX constantly seems to be available for £20 return which may indicate poor performance. But ultimately financial support and incentives will win out, a route averaging 140 pax with low fares could stay whereas another that is constantly full could go.

[FRatSTN]

New route to Lyon LYS starting 23 December 2017, 2x weekly

[mikkie4]

wonder how this will affect the EZY & BE flights to LYON from SEN

[tws123]

It's a winter seasonal route so probably not that significantly.

[FRatSTN]

Just looked at the April 2017 CAA stats for Stansted to Istanbul-Ataturk where there were 9,311 scheduled pax.

That means AtlasGlobal's daily flight, assuming an A320 as it usually is (it varies sometimes between A319s and A321s), would have an average LF of a very respectful 94.6%.

Compared to 6,171 pax in April 2016 when they operated from LTN, it would seem their move back to STN has been a successful one to say the least.

I know there's a potential Easter effect but Turkey of course isn't without it's problems at the moment and surely the change of airport cannot be the sole explanation for such an increase. Anyone got any other explanations?

The only other thing I can think of is that they must have seen a big increase in onward connectivity through Istanbul.

[jdcg]

Historically there's always been a lot of Ercan - bound traffic from STN

[AirportPlanner1]

Just as LTN is well placed for Israel, STN was always favoured by the Turkish community. Atlas were actually at STN before they went to LTN.

[_aax1]

Speaking of Israel. The Arkia TLV flights have departed with a 90+% load factor. The airline is also considering increasing it to a all year service.

[southside bobby]

Another goodly increase in figures for May`17....Pax +7% for 2.3M & the busiest ever May.... Cargo also + 11% for 23,000 tonnes....

[daz211]

BOE901 is on route to STN from YYR on route to the Paris air show

[southside bobby]

MAG/STN has launched a scoping report to prepare a planning application later this year to go to 44.5M pax PA coupled with 285,000 movements PA.....inc 6 more a/c stands & 2 more taxiway links for the R/W:D

[davidjohnson6]

44.5m pax sounds like a big number. Are MAG expecting to get planning permission for this, or is it just an opening gambit in a negotiation process with the expectation that the local council will be thimking about a smaller number or other concessions ?

[southside bobby]

Yes it is a big number....& as per the wording it is a "scoping" report to encompass all views & comments ready for a formal planning application late this year...Not so sure it is an opening gambit as MAG have made no secret of the fact they will go for max use of the existing R/W...which in numbers is slightly more than LGW are achieving...Sweat the assets or what!....MAG have stated previously there is a trigger number which will then involve asking for a 2nd R/W...STN has planning permission already for 35M & 274K ATM`s...& at present that is the cap...the difference between this & the scoping report is what MAG will now be asking for,hence I guess the limited extra infrastructure asked for this time in the form of 6 more stands as it will be provided to a degree in the drive firstly toward 35M..

[southside bobby]

The B737 MAX9 mentioned previously is visiting RYR @ STN before going on to the Paris Airshow....

[davidjohnson6]

Ryanair is by far the dominant carrier at Stansted and (like any other airline) reviews on a periodic basis the performance of routes and cuts those which are deemed to be poor performers. Because demand for air transport in Europe is much higher than winter, the most obvious time to pick out routes from STN that Ryanair are cutting is around early September, when Ryanair start publicising their schedule for the following summer.

Anyone got any ideas for Ryanair routes from STN that might not be around for summer 2018 ? Last year these were Kos and Parma, as well as Oslo-Rygge which was cut from the network in its entirety

More details of what was cut in previous years can be found at:
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/245928-stansted-2-a-177.html#post9405693

[davidjohnson6]

As an update, I've noticed that fares for Stansted-Lorient are looking pretty low. A oneway two days ahead costs £30 from STN (including APD !) with some fares from Lorient at £5

Perhaps one of the routes that might not last beyond October ? Or is there lots of marketing support involved ?

[_aax1]

No surprise that no new EZY routes announced.

Although, slight increase on AMS. Increased to 4 daily every day apart from SAT from December.

[whitelighter]

Frankly it's a result there aren't any cuts and the number of airframes remains the same

[southside bobby]

Pax figures for June + 7.9% for 2.362M....Cargo not too shabby either + 10% for 22,117 tonnes in the month...Will be going thru the 25M pax per year & entering the big league this month....An excellent result....