STANSTED - 2

[whitelighter]

Pax figures for June + 7.9% for 2.362M....Cargo not too shabby either + 10% for 22,117 tonnes in the month...Will be going thru the 25M pax per year & entering the big league this month....An excellent result....

They need the new terminal urgently. The existing one can't cope with current volume, already inbounds are restricted to ease the pressure on the arrivals side.

Makes you wonder how even more pax will be coped with without destroying completely customer tolerance.

[wowzz]

They need the new terminal urgently. The existing one can't cope with current volume, already inbounds are restricted to ease the pressure on the arrivals side.

Makes you wonder how even more pax will be coped with without destroying completely customer tolerance.

The new terminal in itself will not help improve matters, unless the number of Border Control personnel is increased as well. Passenger numbers continue to increase, but this doesn't seem to be reflected by a commensurate ability to process the extra pax, hence the horrendous logjam in the arrivals hall.

[azzbo]

The last 3 times I have arrived (Jan, Mar and last Monday) have been very quick to get through immigration, took about 5 mins on Monday early afternoon when many holiday flights were returning. Much better than the last 2 years where I have queued for closer to 20-30.

[_aax1]

The main issues are overcrowding in the departure lounge, terminal road access during the morning peak and check-in space, the islands aren't fit for purpose anymore.

Construction on the shoreline check-in starts in September where they will knock down Joe's/M&S to Costa to put more check-in desks in time for next summer. Then Zone A will be removed and so on. So will look similar to Luton when finished. Once the new arrivals building is complete a second security will be built where the current international arivals is.

Charlie Cornish quoted recently saying he had expected more long-haul airlines and routes by now however he believes brexit has hampered these plans as the falling pound for outbound tourism and business uncertainty for inbound traffic. I expect if Jet2's EWR shopping flights are successful it might encourage scheduled carriers to service NYC. Although I do wonder what long haul airlines would come to STN?

[wowzz]

''The main issues are overcrowding in the departure lounge''
Which wouldn't have been a problem if they hadn't put in an effing big shopping mall right after security.

[LGS6753]

Although I do wonder what long haul airlines would come to STN?
The only ones will be those awaiting Gatwick slots, and in turn Heathrow slots.

[STN406]

Construction on the shoreline check-in starts in September where they will knock down Joe's/M&S to Costa to put more check-in desks in time for next summer. Then Zone A will be removed and so on. So will look similar to Luton when finished. Once the new arrivals building is complete a second security will be built where the current international arivals is.


Do not wish to call anyone a liar, but can you support this. I work within the terminal building and I have heard the current shops/restaurants within Zone A/International arrivals are staying as they are until the new arrivals building is operational.
And frankly landside has very minimal in the way of shops and restaurants as it is I can not see MAG taking down nearly all of those units.

[_aax1]

This is what has been discussed with senior leadership team in a meeting with airlines and 3rd parties. September was the date set to start the work. I'm not going to post the documents on here so you will have to just wait and see.

MAG I'm sure would of rather waited for the new arrivals building but they're aren't enough check-in desks anymore and the airport will struggle this summer in regards to that. STN is 5 years ahead of their operational planning in terms of pax figures. They would not be able to handle a new reasonable sized airline with the current landslide facilities, if their flight time wanted to be from 6am to 2pm

[STN Ramp Rat]

I have been flying a lot from Stansted recently. I have to say that they have security well under control in the morning and I generally get through within about 15 minutes of arriving in the terminal.

The terminal drop off however is a different matter. I believe they have been looking at different options to try to sort the issue out but the taxi drivers tell me traffic is backed up to the A120 junction from about 04:30 to 07:00 the airport are apparently looking for any good ideas to resolve it so if you have one please let them know.

[01475]

the airport are apparently looking for any good ideas to resolve it so if you have one please let them know.

Stop charging for drop offs so people don't have to waste time fiddling around at the barriers as this is what has caused the problem (both here and in Glasgow too). Oh. They didn't mean that?

[STN Ramp Rat]

that is an issue but its not THE issue that is causing the queues. People stop at the start of the drop off causing queues, they blocked off the start so people are forced further along and they stop there causing queues. I believe the real issue is that the area is totally over capacity in the morning and the only way to fix that is to encourage less people to drive to the airport, which is easier said than done.

[Cuillin Hills]

You can get 30 minutes in the adjacent Short Term for not much more than the 10 minutes at the shambolic, timed, rapidly increasing in price drop-off. :ok:

[southside bobby]

Towards another level....I believe there is a plan to put in place "mezzanine" areas & seating in certain localities within the terminal....to be constructed off site & moved in sections to the terminal...idea was for September onward...... Onward & upward then..SS

[racedo]

The terminal drop off however is a different matter. I believe they have been looking at different options to try to sort the issue out but the taxi drivers tell me traffic is backed up to the A120 junction from about 04:30 to 07:00 the airport are apparently looking for any good ideas to resolve it so if you have one please let them know.

Separate Junction further along A120 with dedicated automatic shuttle that just walk onboard and takes direct to terminal. Collection point as well that is separate but part of facility. Removes people and traffic away from Terminal.

Mind you could do that at Midstay BUT issue would be that needs to a dedicated line direct to the Terminal not one where get in bus then come out and sit in backed up traffic.

[EssexMan61]

Hi - STN fans. I have just logged on to - what I assume to be - the official Stansted Airport website to have a look at current Arrivals / Departures in real-time. But everything is just showing as "Scheduled" - with no real-time info. When I click on the "More Info" button for a particular flight it wants my e-mail address!! Eh??? Is this a temporary glitch or normal behaviour for the website please?

[nt639]

Hi - STN fans. I have just logged on to - what I assume to be - the official Stansted Airport website to have a look at current Arrivals / Departures in real-time. But everything is just showing as "Scheduled" - with no real-time info. When I click on the "More Info" button for a particular flight it wants my e-mail address!! Eh??? Is this a temporary glitch or normal behaviour for the website please?

Looks like a glitch as the App on my iPad has no flights showing either in departures or arrivals

[lotus1]

Should be soon busy quite a few diverts bound from gatwick due to air Canada rouge blowing tyres

[southside bobby]

Ah well...as the "other" airports are at it......@ least 3 LGW divs this PM...B789 NAX... B753 TCX & A321 TCX/SmartLynx...

[whitelighter]

8 narrow body diverts plus a TOM789 and TCX753

[southside bobby]

EssexMan61.....Your last post concerning the STN Arrivals/Departures "live" board has mysteriously disappeared!...You know the one....where you were sarcastic quoting MAG as "here to help"....& ending with your comment...oh dear,oh dear..oh dear...Well fear you not EssexMan all appears glitch free now & running smoothly,lots of arrivals & departures for you to peruse..The little digs from the SEN area concerning STN are ever apparent whenever there is trouble at`mill..namely at SEN..Good Luck...SS

[G-APDK]

Any news on message 3978 (Hainan A330) visit on 25 July?

[AerRyan]

EssexMan61.....Your last post concerning the STN Arrivals/Departures "live" board has mysteriously disappeared!...You know the one....where you were sarcastic quoting MAG as "here to help"....& ending with your comment...oh dear,oh dear..oh dear...Well fear you not EssexMan all appears glitch free now & running smoothly,lots of arrivals & departures for you to peruse..The little digs from the SEN area concerning STN are ever apparent whenever there is trouble at`mill..namely at SEN..Good Luck...SS

Ouch! Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning!

[southside bobby]

AerRyan......Sorry...don`t really comprende your comment....nice of you to swing by tho!....

[sat1]

RE-Any news on message 3978 (Hainan A330) visit on 25 July?


alledgedly carrying vip pax from swissports owners
anyone else know anything????

[LAX_LHR]

The HU flight is carrying HNA staff after a European jolly.

They arrived into Stockholm on a Hainan B787 (the boss came direct to MAN), then over to the UK (not sure which airline), then back to Beijing on the Hainan A330 from Stansted (positions in from Prague IIRC).

[_aax1]

Anyone know why Emirates flew to STN and back to DXB on flight EK2501?

[GrahamK]

Anyone know why Emirates flew to STN and back to DXB on flight EK2501?

Arsenal FC related perhaps?

[Seljuk22]

Arsenal is currently playing in China. Must be something else
Emirates B777-200LR A6-EWH Operates London Stansted Charter. (http://theeksource.com/emirates-b777-200lr-a6-ewh-operates-london-stansted-charter/)

[eggc]

As per BHX thread...Primera Air to serve STN to EWR and BOS from 2018 with A321neo. Bookable now.

[southside bobby]

Yes re Primera Air very good news...& yes indeed STN is on their website & in the dropdown me & u...

[southside bobby]

Primera Air...& already on the Stansted Airport website...STN referred to as a base with daily to EWR commencing April`18 & BOS at 4 weekly commencing May`18..with a further transatlantic destination to be announced before end`17...Equipment will be A321NEO with 2 cabins....Bookings start today...

[AirportPlanner1]

EWR appears to be daily, BOS 4x weekly. There is no mention of Toronto flights, the STN press release is just USA. I wonder if these may appear later on the days BOS doesn't operate, or even whether they'll add KEF. I can't believe the aircraft will do nothing.

[ara01jbb]

Second time I've seen Primera Air mentioned online this week, the first wasn't so complimentary :D (https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/887040383884165120)

[NickBarnes]

Just booked EWR in April saves me travelling to the other London airports. Booked with the credit card mind you:ok:

Hoping they will add a Canada route, hopefully will be a success this time!

[southside bobby]

ara01jbb.....Go on I`ll fall for it.....what makes you so happy with an horrendous delay please...

[LGS6753]

Cheap transatlantic flights from Birmingham and Stansted to launch next summer (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=33367&news_id=2028086)

[Artie Fufkin]

The Dane's are presumably optimistic a post-Brexit Open Skies is on the way?

[pamann]

Must admit I didn't see this one coming.

When I read the news of BHX yesterday I did think that perhaps Stansted could be On the horizon. And so it is.

[01475]

This is almost a bit sad for them. If they do happen to strike the winning transatlantic low cost formula, it is not going to be them that takes advantage of it.

[pamann]

Wonder if we'll see AA return to defend their 'London' patch like last time. Let's hope not because that got no where last time.

[AirportPlanner1]

The Dane's are presumably optimistic a post-Brexit Open Skies is on the way?

Or, alternatively, they believe Brexit won't happen

[compton3bravo]

Best of British to Primera or more like 'saving ones bacon' - Danish that is!

[AirportPlanner1]

This is almost a bit sad for them. If they do happen to strike the winning transatlantic low cost formula, it is not going to be them that takes advantage of it.

While I think it's less important now whether it's a household name because of Skyscanner etc so wouldn't write them off on the routes chosen, there is only so much they can do if they stick to A321s. I mean, where else can they get to that people would actually be interested in visiting? Washington, Halifax and Montreal are the only ones that come my mind. Even Washington might be too far.

[whitelighter]

Wonder if we'll see AA return to defend their 'London' patch like last time. Let's hope not because that got no where last time.

It did exactly what AA wanted last time - put the competition out if business and they then withdrew to heathrow

[pamann]

That's exactly my point.

I was one of those affected by AA pulling out within weeks of them adding a second daily schedule that never happened and my booking was shifted to LHR.

[AirportPlanner1]

There is near zero chance of AA or anyone else coming in as a spoiler. It was different last time around, Eos and to a lesser extent Maxjet were poaching premium pax where the real money is. There is no need to come to Primera, they can just dump bargain fares on their existing flights at LHR/LGW.

For example I could right now book VS to BOS for £295 including food, drink, bags and entertainment.

[southside bobby]

For the record the config of the Primera A321neo`s will be C16/Y182....Full Service Premium & Low Fare Economy..

[Alsacienne]

Can the 321 Neos go the distance without refuelling in KEF?

[rog747]

Can the 321 Neos go the distance without refuelling in KEF?

does depend on the new A321neo having ETOPS 'out of the box' plus also does the carrier have ETOPS approval and experience


may help see here
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/594980-321-neo-etops-certification.html

[FRatSTN]

Seems the Thursday PMI and Friday IBZ flights have been removed from the booking engine for Summer 2018. I doubt the aircraft will sit there doing nothing so maybe a new route or two on the way?

[pamann]

Seems the Thursday PMI and Friday IBZ flights have been removed from the booking engine for Summer 2018. I doubt the aircraft will sit there doing nothing so maybe a new route or two on the way?

Maybe this is the first signs of Jet2 giving TUI a push on their bread and butter routes. Maybe we'll see something different from TUI? Naples would be a good fit for the Friday.

[racedo]

Or, alternatively, they believe Brexit won't happen

Most people on big US holidays plan it a year plus in advance it appears talking to friends, must admit don't fall into that category.
Some who have just returned and also about to go highlighted that if pound goes below $1.2 then would make it an issue in terms of cost. As is they planned for $1.50 plus and got $1.25.

I do see less people doing TA if £-$ falls further.

[SWBKCB]

I do see less people doing TA if £-$ falls further.

From this end - makes the UK more attractive to Americans

[racedo]

From this end - makes the UK more attractive to Americans

True but mericans likely to use their own airlines or well known ones first.

[Buster the Bear]

Stansted excited about plans for make the most of runways - Cambridge News (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/business/business-news/stansted-excited-plans-make-most-13365386)

[southside bobby]

Nice to see the Hainan Airlines B789Dreamliner) at STN today... if only on a one off...

[southside bobby]

The brand new Hampton by Hilton hotel with 357 rooms over 7 levels & adjacent to the terminal opens today........

[pamann]

Naples, Malta, Nice
Increased frequency on routes already served
10 aircraft base Summer 18

Jet2 announces more new routes from Stansted (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2028189&c=setreg&region=2&t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&iid=519cd3b4367142df833d91ab4471deec&uid=262566248&nid=244+272699400)

[southside bobby]

Excellent news re Jet2 for Summer`18...this is the 2nd increase announced for `18 & makes it now a 60% increase over this year for 1.4m seats...& for a 10 unit base..who would have believed it in such a relatively short time...they have another swathe of 800`s arriving so keep it up....

[_aax1]

Very good new indeed! Good news for STN. Takes LS up to 22 departures a day, which is starting to encroach on EZY's number 2 position at STN and their routes. Seeming they like to be either no 1 or no 2 at airports, which is part of the reason they gave up at Hamburg. EZY has two choices, throw in the towel or grow.

[mikkie4]

EZY advertising for full time A319/20 cabin crew to be based at SOUTHEND for 2018,so looks like we are getting our 4th aircraft, Might have something to do with the expantion of LS at STN

[01475]

Wrong thread! Though also, won't EZY be looking for cabin crew for almost everywhere almost every year? The staff turnover must be horrific?

[FRatSTN]

Looks like Bulgaria is a new destination for Summer 2018 and Antalya is set to continue now with a Friday departure.

Good news though still 2x rotations down on S17 short-haul with also no signs of any long-haul for S18

[pamann]

Longhaul confirmed as cancelled after Summer 17 SFB/CUN/MBJ

[pabely]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is STN not full as far as slot allocations in the busy AM period? Won't this limit any major basing of the likes of Jet 2 further?

[canberra97]

Although it was confirmed a few months ago that long haul with TUI from Stansted was being cancelled for summer 2018 does anyone know the actual reason for this as I would have thought the demand was there. I know Thomas Cook offer similar long haul flights from Stansted but surely TUI would have been able to offer a bit of competition.

[pamann]

Personally I think TUI/Thomson arrived on the longhaul scene at STN two years too late. Thomas Cook have got it to themselves now. Personally I see it as a growth area for Thomas Cook now.

[southside bobby]

Pabely.....To part answer your query,Stansted is capacity controlled at present by previous planning consents both with ATM`s & pax numbers..MAG is on the road this month in 8 local communities with an exhibition to explain it`s intention & plans to apply in late Summer for planning permission for the lifting of all caps in terms of flight numbers to grow STN with the max use of the existing R/W...this equates to approx 44M pax per year....ie LGW....So hopefully room for more Jet2`s in the future..

[AirportPlanner1]

southside, slot availability and movement caps are two very different things.

MAG could be successful in getting an overall cap raised, but that doesn't magically release some extra slots between 6-9am when there are none, or in the increasingly congested 9pm-midnight period. So pabely is right in that there can't be an explosion in based aircraft, although there is still plenty of availability before 6am and after midnight which would still suit the way Jet2 operate. Those sorts of slots have been widely used at LGW for some time. Even Ryanair now have some arrivals well after midnight, previously they've had nothing scheduled to arrive after 23:55.

[commit aviation]

AirportPlanner1: "there is still plenty of availability before 6am and after midnight"

Technically there isn't. The government sets a limit on the number of night movements as well as a night noise quota at all 3 major London airports. LGW is at its limit & STN will be too this summer. Next year will see a revised series of rules which may see some changes but I won't get into details as I'm not really up to speed on these yet

[southside bobby]

AirportPlanner1.....I agree to disagree.....The model you need in mind is LGW,with max permitted use of it`s R/W STN will be able to achieve the same sustained movement flow rate which is higher there...slot availability can be dictated by movement rates too surely..Anyways STN is effectively curfewed before 6am & also after 11pm for departures & midnight for arrivals,with any availability already allocated..Where else pray is an effective planned for doubling of pax traffic coming from without an explosion (your word) of based aircraft too...Again I would think LGW is your model...So yes there will be room for similar Jet2 ops in the future...

[pabely]

Thanks for input guys, just as I thought, for now no big expansion but that could all change if MAG get their way.

[FRatSTN]

Personally I think TUI/Thomson arrived on the longhaul scene at STN two years too late. Thomas Cook have got it to themselves now. Personally I see it as a growth area for Thomas Cook now.

Don't think it's so much that... MT only have a fairly short programme over the school summer holiday period. TOM were operating long-haul year round, to CUN at least anyway.

TOM's long-haul from STN is certainly not unpopular and fares are no lower than anyone else... I've no question over the profitability of STN long-haul for them. I think it's more a case it's impacted too much on their LGW operation which will always be the jewel in the crown for them.

[whitelighter]

Stansted is never going to be a long haul Hub.
However I can't understabd why hugely over subscribed routes couldnt work.
Have you tried getting a seat to Las Vegas or Orlando recently?

I think the Tui pull out is more to do with rationalisation of the 6/7 airlines the group ran and acre-aligning of priorities.

[01475]

Longhaul seems to attract a lot of discussion here.

Why do people feel the airport needs it? It's not going to be far from basically full with shorthaul, and in a few years time withdrawing the plans for a second runway will start to look to have been very silly!

Is that not enough?

[LTNman]

All to do with prestige and little else plus it looks good on the flight information screens.

[pamann]

I agree that I can't see it becoming a major longhaul hub, however two years ago I would have laughed at the thought of a holiday company basing 10 aircraft at STN.

If you told me 3 years ago that BA would have a network of routes from STN (even though it's City Flyer/Niche market) I'd also have laughed at your suggestion.

Stranger things have and do happen.

[Rich3]

Jet 2 - Key summer 2018 programme information:

London Stansted

33 destinations including 8 new summer hotspots: Bodrum, Costa de Almeria, Halkidiki, Kefalonia and Verona (already announced) and Malta, Naples and Nice (announced today).
280 weekly flights and more than 1.4 million seats available, a 60% growth on Summer 17
Addition of three aircraft meaning ten aircraft operating from London Stansted Airport

[SWBKCB]

Why do people feel the airport needs it? It's not going to be far from basically full with shorthaul, and in a few years time withdrawing the plans for a second runway will start to look to have been very silly!

Long haul a/c tend to be bigger, so more money per runway/gate slot?

[southside bobby]

More good news...STN went thru the 25M pax in a rolling 12months on 27.7...MAG now expecting to 26.5M by the end of the financial year!...Impressive numbers & achievement.

[pamann]

I wonder how close STN is to taking over MAN as third busiest in terms of annual passenger traffic?

Must be getting very close?

[LAX_LHR]

MAN is still just over 2m ahead as it surpassed the 27m pax mark in June.

Overall, the MAN growth rate has been higher than STN so is expected to be at 28.9m by the time STN reaches 26.5m.

Where STN may eventually take the lead is when the MANtp works really take hold. It means a constrained site at MAN and thus limits growth. But then for a single terminal airport with no plans for major expansion yet (new arrivals hall aside), that probably limits STN somewhat too.

[FRatSTN]

I agree it won't be for a while yet. It got very close a year or two ago but MAN picked up pace when STN's initial MAG take-over FR growth started to level off. STN will pick up pace again though with LS and further increases from other carriers... I've no doubt it will inevitably happen at some point but certainly not imminently.

The one to watch in terms of rankings at the moment seems to be BHX threatening EDI's sixth place... some absolutely phenomenal growth there!

[southside bobby]

STN will in the natural course eventually overtake MAN again to regain UK#3..MANtp or no...STN has facility expansion plans such as new stands/taxiways & SAT4 (the new arrivals hall was a surprise) already to hand & as importantly approved for within the national planning agreement with & toward 35M it`s present cap (so I imagine we will not see any formal applications as they will be nodded thru by the local authorities as & when required) & then more stands & taxiways again for the looked for drive to 44.5M & the requisite permission this time.....I have already posted because of accelerated growth @ present there appear to be plans with work beginning this Sept to put in place a mezzanine level in parts of the terminal to provide quickly extra seating & space...as I said then as a pun onward & UPWARD...)))

[LAX_LHR]

But the issue with that is you say STN has a cap of 35m and eventually up to 44.5m, you do realise that the MAN TP is aimed at smoothing out the process to enable the 55m passenger cap there (it's technically capable of 55m now, but would not be a pleasant experience, the MAN TP is to give the terminals that breathing space).

As said, MAN is growing at a faster rate than STN, and MAN can still draw on a far greater airline diversity, whereas STN is very heavily loco dependant.

All I'm saying is that yes, it's entirely possible for STN to regain its 3rd largest spot, but, it's not the dead cert you seem to think it will be. Don't forget, MAN and STN is owned by the same company now, and they have grand plans for both airports.

[pamann]

Is Satellite number 4 going ahead? I'd imagine there is an imminent need for it.

[southside bobby]

LAX LHR...V true but if you "read between all the lines" (some feature on the MAN thread) that self same company running both STN & MAN are being (it appears) politically expedient concerning issues say with Government & relevant departments & ministers...& are playing the long game,silent mainly in public concerning criticism, as they still believe/realize that STN could still be the huge prize.....V true MAN capable of 55M perhaps even now & that is with 2 full length R/W`s..( but with inadequate compatability)...STN is as we have stated 44.5M with max use of a single R/W...With 2 & operating entirely independently STN would be out there...MAG`s intention is to seek that 2nd RW & I know yes = a v long game..I take the point concerning diversity but does no one consider MAG are v aware of it too & always have been...A clue MAG are prepared to be bold is Jet2 arriving...now a lot of commentators would have declared you cannot do that/should not do that because of "upsetting" the incumbents...but that masterstroke appears to be coming off v well..The beauty of having a MAN owner is they have as you say the diversity on the doorstep...so forming further working partnerships outside of MAN too would be perfectly reasonable to expect... .LoCo as you state but STN is also a London area airport,obviously the largest market certainly in Europe...Time will tell but yes I remain confident.....Both have v busy futures tho))

[southside bobby]

Pamann...I viewed from afar the foundations being prepared...I think even then to mothball..but that was a long long time ago..Some of the apron was constructed for it & is used as remote parking obviously...BAA had permission to bring it to fruition but obviously never did.I remember a dispute tho about eventual pax access to it as Ryanair were earmarked to use it at that time & local planning & BAA wished to install moving walkways as it is quite some distance from the terminal itself but needless to say Ryanair were happier for the customers to walk.. SAT 2 within my progress around the SAT`s always appeared woefully underused certainly in my time but is/was a split level operation too with Domestics below & the top level International...International in SAT2 was eventually mothballed in the traffic low point before BAA relinquished ownership...So no the only claim I can make is it`s part of the agreed planning permission to 35M...but a lot of thinking (even worldwide) concerning movement thru terminals has changed I guess in the meantime...The latest announcement of the new Arrivals Terminal was a complete surprise & perhaps all thought concerning flow is in the mix...Tho still got to get the pax across the tarmac to the a/c I guess...remote boarding was never in use...it was only remote parking....

[4Screwaircrew]

Ryanair have been remote boarding on the 80s for some time now, the pax are bussed over.

[Skipness One Echo]

Is international in Sat 2 back in use again?

[southside bobby]

4Screwaircrew......Okey Dokey...I knew I was in the past tense & that confirms it...thanks for the info........Skip.....hopefully someone better placed as above to answer....It was the upper level that was International & mothballed toward the end of the BAA tenure...Seem to recall overspill RYR international departing from the lower level occasionally @ least....

[AirportPlanner1]

The half of Sat 2 top level furthest from the terminal has been in use for years, well before the end of BAA's tenure. Go used it pre-9/11, I recall arriving first thing in the morning from Keflavik with Continental and some Lufthansas lined up along Sat 1 behind. I vividly remember parking up alongside a Transjet MD80. I think at that time it was pretty much an overspill and received a small and random selection of flights and airlines. Air Berlin used it towards the mid-late part of the decade, around seven or eight in at one time with some boarding from domestic downstairs. Ryanair have always had the odd flight from there, but in recent years they seem to have exclusive use. Bizarrely the bar which was always open in the lean years is now closed. You can see where it's boarded off to the other half, I believe it would be incredibly easy to open the whole thing up.

The lower half nearest the terminal, domestic, does indeed handle international flights. Mostly I've seen this happen off-peak, but when I flew up to GLA a few weeks back despite a couple of FR, a couple of EZY, BE and BMI filling up the ramp there was also an FR heading off to Warsaw.

If they did make Sat 2 entirely international, a potential disadvantage is that domestic pax would lose the straightforward exit out of the terminal unless a new one was designed into Sat 3 or a future Sat 4 into the new arrivals area. If they did that though, the convenience and speed for departing pax might be impacted.

[STN406]

Is their any more information to the mezzanine/ changes apparently happening to the landside check-in area, all seems to be hearsay. Wondering if any definitive plans have been made yet.

[southside bobby]

Interestingly in an interview Primera say they are considering putting short & medium haul operations into transatlantic bases.....Time will tell I guess....

[southside bobby]

As the first of it`s kind at a major UK airport according to MAG an on site £11M technical college has received planning permission today..will train 500 people per year benefiting the whole region with STN also regarding it as a critical project to provide skilled on site workers as the growth toward 44M pax per year is planned...As a two storey building it is expected to open Autumn 18.....It can only go to add even more vibrancy to the whole Airport site too I feel....

[southside bobby]

CEO`s of STN & MAN to swap roles in a statement by MAG....

[davidjohnson6]

Which is the promotion and which is the demotion ?

[southside bobby]

davidjohnson6......TBH as long as there is a benefit to STN somehows,then not too much head scratching on this thread perhaps...:)))

[SWBKCB]

As the first of it`s kind at a major UK airport according to MAG an on site £11M technical college has received planning permission today

Looks like the Academies at Newcastle and Norwich - presumably that means they aren't major airports... :O

[southside bobby]

SWBKCB....Sadly then you are correct,the airports you mention are not major airports by any industry definition or yardstick alas........I`m very sure MAG used the word carefully with all clarity & perception of their industry in all the press releases.......(By the way not decrying Academies elsewhere of course)...:)))

[EssexMan61]

Wow - amazing story about the Stansted "Meet and Greet" service featured on mailonline.
According to the article an airport spokesperson said they were "deeply sorry". Well - I should hope they were!!

Edit (Added) -

And the airports own website says people need to allow extra time for the next WEEK!!!

[SWBKCB]

SWBKCB....Sadly then you are correct, the airports you mention are not major airports by any industry definition or yardstick alas........I'm very sure MAG used the word carefully with all clarity & perception of their industry in all the press releases.......(By the way not decrying Academies elsewhere of course)...:)))

Where Newcastle leads, the rest follow... :ok:

[southside bobby]

So more good commercial news for STN...CLU/CargoLogicAir to launch 2 weekly B744F service to Mexico City via ATL...Service to commence on 19.8 & operates Days 3/6.CLU`s first scheduled service.

[southside bobby]

SWBKCB.....yup,spot on :)))........& on the plus side @ NCL you also have a non flying "real" airframe attached in the form of the ex WestJet B732 which I have noticed on various visits.I believe NWI now have an ex Chanex B733 hangered & newly arrived...

[gilesdavies]

According to the Evening Stansted looks like Standard Airport has had a chaotic evening!

Hole in the runway and lots of diversions to Luton and East Midlands.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/stansted-airport-delays-air-passengers-face-travel-chaos-after-hole-closes-runway-a3610726.html

[LTNman]

Is the photo that appears in the Standard taken in a pier? The finish looks as cheap as chips with its corrugated roof and exposed steel pillars. Race to the bottom?

[canberra97]

The photo looks like it could have been taken in Satellite 3 at the very end where the building is single story with only 5/6 gates, the remaining part of Satellite 3 is on the upper floor and doesn't look anything like this and is rather pleasant and totally glazed giving great views overlooking the aprons.

Although it's looks cheap in this view it was built for the use of Ryanair and the shops, cafes are on the upper floor.

I think even this view was it looks far superior than the bland cheap looking gates we've see at LTN.

[LTNman]

That's why I said a race to the bottom:ugh: I can see gates 52, 54 and 56 which should pinpoint the location. Flying used to be a pleasant experience, it doesn't look like a pleasant experience in this photo.

I think last year both Luton and Stansted came joint last in the passenger Which survey. This year I seem to remember Luton was just one point below. Luton has an excuse that it is operating way above capacity and is a building site but Stansted doesn't have that excuse so why do passengers rate Stansted so badly?

[jdcg]

That's why I said a race to the bottom:ugh: I can see gates 52, 54 and 56 which should pinpoint the location. Flying used to be a pleasant experience, it doesn't look like a pleasant experience in this photo.

I think last year both Luton and Stansted came joint last in the passenger Which survey. This year I seem to remember Luton was just one point below. Luton has an excuse that it is operating way above capacity and is a building site but Stansted doesn't have that excuse so why do passengers rate Stansted so badly?

Because STN has deteriorated so much over recent years. Most of the other London airports have,in some ways, got better. Not LTN, obviously, but LTN was always poor. But STN used to feel pleasant, until the MAG effect kicked in

[davidjohnson6]

The area around gates 51-59 has seemed pretty lousy for a long time - I can certainly remember the crummy feeling in 2013. There are simply too many gates squeezed into a tiny shed for comfort.

[AirportPlanner1]

A key difference I find between STN and LTN is that the people I know that moan about LTN use it, those that moan about STN dont and just assume it's bad. That said, if they try flying out of STN early morning and returning after 11pm they'd be right. Any other time of day they'd be fine.

A complaint of people I know that do use STN is the trek through duty free, even though they have to do the same at LGW which they insist is better.

[STN Ramp Rat]

the issue with Stansted is that they keep you in the lounge until STD-45, I know and understand why they do it but I don't want to buy anything more than a coffee and Sandwich and like to go to the less crowded gate area after that. I cant as my Ryanair flight could be SAT2,3 or Coaching and my EZY flight could be Sat 1 or 2 so I end up hanging around in the main lounge taking up space

[Alsacienne]

The photo was taken at the end of the Ryanair pier, which is a corrugated roofed hanger, on the ground floor. There are minimal amenities ... a couple of toilets, a couple of vending machines and equipment for roping off areas to form queuing lanes. It makes the rest of the pier seem like a luxury hotel.

[southside bobby]

Moving on to a more positive note again....STN records a 10.5% increase in pax for July`17 for 2.58m on the month...& as already recorded puts STN thru the 25m pax per year mark..Cargo just over 2% up for 21,200 tonnes on the month...MAG also stating £50m of extra capacity being added before the new arrivals terminal is available inc extra seating in departures..extra check in facilities & an increase in aircraft stands..

[southside bobby]

AUR ceasing LCY service at the end of October can only help bolster the existing STN service...

[AirportPlanner1]

AUR ceasing LCY service at the end of October can only help bolster the existing STN service...

Unless it ended up double daily or something at LTN - did they get the route licence in the end?

[pamann]

Unless it ended up double daily or something at LTN - did they get the route licence in the end?

They don't even operate from LTN so that makes no sense. Only according to the LTN fan base was an application ever made for the route a couple of summers ago, nothing ever materialised. Maybe they'll go 8x daily from STN?

Just as much chance IMO.

[southside bobby]

Errrrrr...if you read the AUR press release & statement says will concentrate on LGW & STN in the future....:ok:

[AirportPlanner1]

They don't even operate from LTN so that makes no sense. Only according to the LTN fan base was an application ever made for the route a couple of summers ago, nothing ever materialised. Maybe they'll go 8x daily from STN?

Just as much chance IMO.

Yes I'm fully aware they're not at LTN currently, also it was hardly the pipedream of some LTN fanboys as the licence application is publicly accessible for all to see. If you want to patronise me at least get your facts right.

Good news for STN (and me personally) they're staying put.

[pamann]

Yes I'm fully aware they're not at LTN currently, also it was hardly the pipedream of some LTN fanboys as the licence application is publicly accessible for all to see. If you want to patronise me at least get your facts right.

Good news for STN (and me personally) they're staying put.

Facts?

You're the one suggesting non-existent double daily LTN ops. That kind sir is a pipe dream and possibly on your 'want list'. Fact is they're concentrating ops at LGW/STN as has already been mentioned. No need to start dreaming up routes and schedules.

[AirportPlanner1]

Facts?

You're the one suggesting non-existent double daily LTN ops. That kind sir is a pipe dream and possibly on your 'want list'. Fact is they're concentrating ops at LGW/STN as has already been mentioned. No need to start dreaming up routes and schedules.

No I'm not, I posed it as a reasonable question on the basis of the previous route application and not having seen the press release. If you read my second post you would also see LTN is not my preference for such a service. I now take it from your inability to comprehend basic text not once but twice you're either a troll or an idiot.

[pamann]

No I'm not, I posed it as a reasonable question on the basis of the previous route application and not having seen the press release. If you read my second post you would also see LTN is not my preference for such a service. I now take it from your inability to comprehend basic text not once but twice you're either a troll or an idiot.

Honestly! I am actually laughing.

Let's move on shall we.

[southside bobby]

Nice to note the Titan Airways A318 now in service...has operated from & to STN on a v recent flight...

[mik3bravo]

According to STN website car parking booking landing page there is zero availability of any parking at short, mid or long stay this weekend. Most meet & greet services in same situation with notable exception of extortionate prices for those utterly desparate to leave your car keys with valet staff. Nuts to think the car parks are rammed to full capacity this weekend.

[inOban]

With the railway closed between Peterborough and Ely I suspect there not be trains from Cambridge, so there may be some who could have come by train who are forced into bringing their car?

[wowzz]

Every time I read that STN pax numbers are up by x or y %, it gives me yet another reason to avoid using it. I know there are expansion plans, but the place is bursting at the seams already, apart from the shopping mall of course. Much better to have a chance to buy perfume than some seats.
The car park debacle is another symptom of unmanaged expansion. I will continue to drive another 2 hours to LGW in order to avoid STN.

[mik3bravo]

Every time I read that STN pax numbers are up by x or y %, it gives me yet another reason to avoid using it. I know there are expansion plans, but the place is bursting at the seams already, apart from the shopping mall of course. Much better to have a chance to buy perfume than some seats.
The car park debacle is another symptom of unmanaged expansion. I will continue to drive another 2 hours to LGW in order to avoid STN.

Yep, I can't say I disagree with you. I rarely use STN but when I do I'm finding the whole passenger experience is sliding into the gutter.

Airport security queues are ridiculously long. Now more and more are choosing to buy fast track security but now even that is getting jammed up too.

Then that bloody zig zag Ikeaesque aisle excusion through duty free is littered with passengers attempting rat runs to the left and right through concessionaire display areas to avoid the passengers who insist on crawling through the duty free 5 persons abreast and blocking up the place.

Though good selection of restaurants and coffee / sandwich places before the next squeeze on the expedition hike to the gates, with escalators and travelators out of service.

The lack of short,mid, long stay capacity is the icing on the cake.

I'll be avoiding using STN for a few years until they deliver better passenger experience - can do without the hassle.

[AirportPlanner1]

The current design flaw with departures is that when you exit security the layout and presence of the massive departure screen mostly saying 'wait in lounge' gives the impression that IS the lounge. And indeed you do see people in that tiny area just waiting around. It's not immediately clear you're supposed to move on.

[mik3bravo]

The current design flaw with departures is that when you exit security the layout and presence of the massive departure screen mostly saying 'wait in lounge' gives the impression that IS the lounge. And indeed you do see people in that tiny area just waiting around. It's not immediately clear you're supposed to move on.

Yes, I noticed that. Just where the toilets are to the left and the duty free dead ahead, the big departures display screen above has hundreds stopping to hang around in that immediate area blocking up the corridor behind coming from security. The place just doesn't flow at all. It's jammed up all over the airport.

[carousel]

The screens you are referring to have been changed to generic " Welcome to Stansted have a happy day and spend lots of money " for several weeks now, for the very reasons mentioned. In addition they want to put another WHS in at that spot.

[edi_local]

The screens you are referring to have been changed to generic " Welcome to Stansted have a happy day and spend lots of money " for several weeks now, for the very reasons mentioned. In addition they want to put another WHS in at that spot.

Where on earth will they put it? Although I am not surprised that WHS get yet another airport spot. They seem to be the default UK airport fall back. Can't find anyone else silly enough to pay rent space in the terminal? Well WHS will sort that out!

I was through STN about 6 weeks ago. I experienced the exact same problems noted by others. That area before the duty free store is a bottleneck and one they seem to have made intentionally for reasons unknown. Surely they want to encourage people to get out and about the terminal, at least to the main holding pen area. Why did they even think it was good commercial sense to put a screen there when they know that people in airports immediately lose all intelligent thought and will just stand and gawk at a giant screen awaiting further instructions? That screen has probably lost them millions in missed sales when people wander away and realise, perhaps too late, they have missed out on a huge shopping mall!

[NWSRG]

I used STN for the first time in many years just a couple of weeks ago. It is now truly awful...what used to be a spacious and airy terminal has been transformed into a hot and overcrowded shopping centre. I know that's the way airports in general are going, but it has been totally overdone at STN. And it feels like you're following a never ending "yellow brick road". I was relieved to get out of the main terminal and into the satellite for some peace and space.

It has really put me off using STN again...

[canberra97]

That's exactly what I said to my partner the last time I used Stansted referring in the same way as you had as in being like 'the never ending yellow brick road'!

[LAX_LHR]

Not sure if it's known about, but Wow air starting daily flights from 25th April.

[mwm991]

Not sure if it's known about, but Wow air starting daily flights from 25th April.

They've added some real left field US destinations too. Cincinnati, Cleveland and St. Louis.

[southside bobby]

Yes more good news with Wow commencing daily ops to Reykjavik next April as stated above..Hopefully should be able to pull many connecting pax to their expanding list of US destinations from the large STN catchment & North & East London...Might entail using a A330 ultimately.........With more positive news Jet2 announce creation of a further 170 jobs for STN in 2018...

[AirportPlanner1]

They've added some real left field US destinations too. Cincinnati, Cleveland and St. Louis.

I would suggest these flights will be of greater interest to Americans visiting here than Brits going over there, although NYC and Toronto will make things interesting with Primera. They are late arrivals and departures into the Us/Canada and form a new bank of flights out of Keflavik.

I actually thought it was only a matter of time before WOW or Icelandair turned up at STN, and I suspected something might be going on this morning when the airport tweeted about the USA. It's also pretty good having daily flights to Iceland again and the prices seem competitive, although once again EZY are being squeezed.

[southside bobby]

Yes....as suggested only a matter of time before one or the other arrived...in fact of course it is Wow`s second coming as previously they were operating to STN virtually at their formation & then departed to LGW...this time it is far more interesting with the US connections & availability & this I would suggest is the potentially bigger interest than a daily to KEF for London....Icelandair were rumoured some time back to be commencing STN but that too arrived @ LGW in the end...now it perhaps is North & East London`s time.....BTW ICE Cargo operating a B75F several days a week to KEF from STN but of course that doesn't count in this discussion..

[AirportPlanner1]

I don't think WOW have ever flown to STN but stand to be corrected. Iceland Express flew from STN for years before joining the exodus to LGW at the end of the decade. They did return briefly for a short season with a couple of flights a week at poor times that unsurprisingly weren't well supported. Officially WOW bought Iceland Express, but the relationship was a bit murky and in reality they just superseded their predecessor with a very similar route network.

[pabely]

I don't think WOW have ever flown to STN but stand to be corrected. Iceland Express flew from STN for years before joining the exodus to LGW at the end of the decade. They did return briefly for a short season with a couple of flights a week at poor times that unsurprisingly weren't well supported. Officially WOW bought Iceland Express, but the relationship was a bit murky and in reality they just superseded their predecessor with a very similar route network.

If they can get more slots at LGW, don't be surprised if this disappears down south of the Thames as well.

[LAX_LHR]

Looking at articles from around the time, seems they at least announced STN around 2012 ish IIRC

[southside bobby]

Pabely.....Nah probably just a bit of wishful thinking on your behalf....I think it`s the whole point init that they are now in a North London airport with virtually no US coverage & a hence a totally new market for their connective model & also aware of Primera`s plans/ambition...With no majors could be a slice of market for the taking.
AirportPlanner..yes Wow flew to STN in 2012 on start up & as you say just before they acquired Iceland Express....the fleet was a couple of LY- A320`s & I remember titles on one @ least as Wow Force One & the other may have been...Two..Then the LGW move...

[AirportPlanner1]

If they can get more slots at LGW, don't be surprised if this disappears down south of the Thames as well.

On this occasion I doubt it - they already have LGW flights around that time anyway.

[daz211]

It's probably more to do with Pabely's location that his comment about WOW only at STN because no available slots at LGW don't think he would be saying the same if the route news was for LTN :rolleyes:

[bananamanuk]

Nice to see news of WOW returning. I remember WOW Force One on their launch before transfer to LGW. As for their US destinations, interesting esp St Louis as that used to be a TWA fortress hub its a shadow of its former self now though.

Cobalt - read yesterday they are starting LGW but are keeping STN but slightly reduced frequency. Via a tweet and fb

[pabely]

Steady on boys, if did not offer my Location, would you say the same?

I did a little research and there is very little about the new route published out to the media, the new US flights announcement by WOW are not linked at all to STN and using their booking engine from US, it directs you to LGW, not STN by default.
It is only the Stansted media machine which as done that direct link, not WOW, that is their job. I remember a similar thing done by LTN Media about El AL and connections to Far East but the airline themselves have never plugged.
STN Media Quote "including Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco and Montreal" None of these appear in the WOW Booking engine so I assume they left long before the STN arrival even departed UK!
The WOW CEO Quotes "It’s a big day for WOW air as we launch flights from Stansted, our second London airport, plus services to these four new US Midwest destinations." You do appear to be able to catch those same day though but I think he was happy making two separate announcements the same day.

As for the flight timing, early morning slots anywhere in London area (to complement their existing London schedules) are a premium, if they could get them at STN or LGW I'm sure they would jump at them.

Anyhow, I wish them luck and won't bother to comment again on this thread on what is a reality in the London market.

[southside bobby]

Pabely.....Nah....my comment was phrased differently to the second poster but of course he was pretty much spot on...You are having a bit of a larf to be honest comparing ELY with the WOW modus & connectivity...it`s a whole different ball game & model....WOW are creating a second bank & wave of arrivals/departures @ KEF later in the day which will also contain their 4 new US destinations announced yesterday,namely Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit & St Louis which are available from STN...It is thought they may well rejig the original bank too at a later stage...Rest assured some of the market in the US Midwest does appear already to be aware of a new London connection for them...So good news for them,good news for London & good news for STN...

[STN Ramp Rat]

at he risk of this becoming a KEF thread, I don't think WOW had an option. they fill the airport in the first and second waves and operate slightly ahead of the Icelandair first and second wave which also fill the airport. Neither can invade the others space so a new bank is the only option.

[southside bobby]

Yes absolutely...& just explaining the STN service is included in the newer/2nd bank..& yes created because KEF is under capacity constraint in the terminal with ICE using a similar model..WOW are said to considering Asian destinations in a future phase & they of course could be much later allowing for traditional Far Eastern departure timings.....but as you say now nearly running a KEF thread...

[FRatSTN]

MUC increases to 12x weekly eff 25th March 2018 and SZG to continue year round with 4x weekly into the summer.

Gives quite an impressive schedule with up to nine departures a day with as many as six aircraft all in at similar times between around 19:00 and 20:30 - starting to look a bit like the former AB operation back in the day

[whitelighter]

Even now some evening you see 4 Eurowings (with the occasional Germanwings) lined up in the Aplha apron. Pier 1 now has a nice mix of liveries throughout the day.

[Buster the Bear]

I was told today that WOW are moving their Gatwick operation to Stansted by next summer as well as opening the new route from the Essex airport? Came from a reliable source, but I do doubt if it is true?

[southside bobby]

Would make a whole lot of sense for them would it not.....The LGW connects with the first bank of US departures from KEF & STN the second so therefore a move would give them complete coverage of their US destinations from one London airport ideally suited for North & East London & the Cambridge corridor at least & also from one that does not have US connections at present, it also could help them counter a hopeful Primera build up...or help to spark off it....Could be good pickings for the model if presented well....

[VickersVicount]

Came from a reliable source, but I do doubt if it is true?
Contradiction in terms surely?

[AirportPlanner1]

I would have suggested double daily from both LGW and STN would be more likely than a transfer from LGW. While STN has its own underserved market as has been pointed out I can't see why WOW would give up an existing apparently successful operation to service it. Also, they near enough have three daily flights across the two airports as it is.

[southside bobby]

Fair point from AirportPlanner1 re LGW & would be another possible scenario...but maybe other factors at work too...competition with even more NAX long haul planned from LGW....& perhaps a/c availability for WOW certainly in the short term with their own rapid expansion plans...Certain tho developments will be interesting.....

[_aax1]

Thomas Cook now added Enfidha from STN. 1 x weekly, wed from 2nd May

[AirportPlanner1]

Thomas Cook now added Enfidha from STN. 1 x weekly, wed from 2nd May

Well that was quick. Are we to assume early sales have been very strong from other airports?

[Tranceaddict]

https://atmosphereairlinesuk.com/

[LTNman]

Lost all credibility when they made the following statement and missed out London City:rolleyes:

Being the first airline startup to use a gofundme account to raise funds we plan to fly passenger, cargo, and charter services and create bases at London Stansted, London Gatwick, London Heathrow, London Luton, London Southend,

[pabely]

https://atmosphereairlinesuk.com/

I do like the Post on their FB page
"I have asked twice now for information that any realistic business startup should be able to provide to anyone.
There is a lot of issues with this that now concern me (and others I'm aware of) these include:
1. A very basic and amateur website with no details of any real significance.
2. Unrealistic expectations to become a national airline.
3. The posts on the FB group are insignificant to the reasons behind the group itself.
4. They can't respond to simple requests for information about the business which EVERY investor is entitled to see and read before investing.
This all raises too many alarm bells for me so I would warn people NOT to invest until the owners can provide information and evidence to back up the claims and prove this is a legitimate and viable business."

[southside bobby]

Ryanair announce 5 new Summer`18 routes for STN..FRA 2daily..Aalborg 4pw.. DUS/Weeze 4pw.. Oradea/Romania 3pw..& Pardubice/Czech R..3pw for a predicted STN thruput of 21.4m pax pa..

[1sky]

Unless I am missing something, aren't all these routers already operating this year?

[davidjohnson6]

1sky - the new routes were certainly announced several months ago

[pabely]

Ryanair announce 5 new Summer`18 routes for STN..FRA 2daily..Aalborg 4pw.. DUS/Weeze 4pw.. Oradea/Romania 3pw..& Pardubice/Czech R..3pw for a predicted STN thruput of 21.4m pax pa..

Southside Bobby, did you miss the fact that there may be no RYR routes by S19! Ryanair Launches London Summer 2018 Schedule; Reiterates Brexit Fears - Finance News - London South East (http://www.lse.co.uk/AllNews.asp?code=3im3xxgy&headline=Ryanair_Launches_London_Summer_2018_Schedule_Reiter ates_Brexit_Fears)

I know it's all RYR huff & puff but I would have thought that would be of more interest to post on this thread!

[southside bobby]

Key words dear boys are "new for Summer `18"....Yes already announced for Winter`17 so a continuance & therefore first timers to a Summer sched...or together with other facts will make for 144 RYR destinations from STN Summer`18 delivering 21.4m pax pa...
Pabley...no sorry...altho RYR making the statement it would apply equally to any UK airport..so not in the STN thread please...Anyways the strong operational & commercial statement I have partly referred to above surely indicates reality that "it will be sorted"...

[LTNman]

Ryanair have yet to get over the fact that the great British public take no notice of anything Ryanair say. I doubt that MAG do either with their plans for Stansted.

[01475]

https://atmosphereairlinesuk.com/

The use of Apostrophe's and Random Capitalisation's on that site and the GoFundMe ought to be Some Kind's of Offence.

"CEO"'s aviation CV is a bit around the STN check-in desks after leaving school, followed by a move into a restaurant at the airport, and cabin crew training from some kind of training provider that doesn't appear to be associated with an airline.

[Planespeaking]

Key words dear boys are "new for Summer `18"....Yes already announced for Winter`17 so a continuance & therefore first timers to a Summer sched...or together with other facts will make for 144 RYR destinations from STN Summer`18 delivering 21.4m pax pa...
Pabley...no sorry...altho RYR making the statement it would apply equally to any UK airport..so not in the STN thread please...Anyways the strong operational & commercial statement I have partly referred to above surely indicates reality that "it will be sorted"...

Sorry could we have that in some form of comprehensible English. I know it may be difficult but try.

[davidjohnson6]

I've tried booking a flight from STN to DUB for S18 - but Ryanair's website shows zero availability after 24 March 2018
Temporary glitch or are other people also finding that S18 has yet to actually go on sale on Ryanair's website (or any other website for that matter !)

[pamann]

I've tried booking a flight from STN to DUB for S18 - but Ryanair's website shows zero availability after 24 March 2018
Temporary glitch or are other people also finding that S18 has yet to actually go on sale on Ryanair's website (or any other website for that matter !)

With Ryanair I've always found that once they announce a route it generally goes on sale the following day. I'm going to guess that's probably the case for their summer 2018 schedule too.

[southside bobby]

Dallas added by WOW as a new destination & connection from both LGW & STN..Dallas commences 23.5.18....

[davidjohnson6]

I've had a look at what Ryanair have loaded for S18. Lorient and Rijeka were both flown in S17, but neither has a schedule published beyond the end of S17
One might conclude that Stansted-Lorient and Stansted-Rijeka are at risk of not being flown by Ryanair in S18

[pabely]

Dallas added by WOW as a new destination & connection from both LGW & STN..Dallas commences 23.5.18....

With a 7hr 20min stopover in KEF on the way back that is going to fun :yuk: but if you don't care about that the price is good

[southside bobby]

Pabely....Horses for courses an all that....still anyway remind me or inform the thread how long pray may the transit time be DFW-LTN ?...thanks :E

[AirportPlanner1]

With a 7hr 20min stopover in KEF on the way back that is going to fun :yuk: but if you don't care about that the price is good

You know they run trips to the Blue Lagoon for longer stopovers, right? It's not like spending 7 hours in say JFK, CDG or LHR between flights. You're right it's not for everyone, but that kind of stopover is very attractive for Americans in particular heading over to Europe.

[pabely]

Pabely....Horses for courses an all that....still anyway remind me or inform the thread how long pray may the transit time be DFW-LTN ?...thanks :E

Direct to LHR and a bus my dear boy:E and I would be sitting at home whilst via Essex I would still be in Iceland

[daz211]

Direct to LHR and a bus my dear boy:E and I would be sitting at home whilst via Essex I would still be in Iceland

See your still hanging around the Stansted thread spouting your doom and gloom, what's up nothing happening in and around Luton ? I guess there is only so much people can talk about multi storey car parks and pie in the sky expansion plans, feel free to contribute with and positive comments but please do me a favour and stop with all the negativity, we all know you wouldn't be saying all this if the flights had been announced from Luton.

[southside bobby]

Come to think about it I`m struggling to remember the last major positive route development/ announcement from LTN....

[STN Ramp Rat]

REALLY do we want a STN v LTN debate AGAIN.... get a life

[southside bobby]

Mr Ramp Rat...Whoa steady on chap....Yes you may be stating the b****ing obvious but just suggest it eh without the backbite ending comment....Trading facts about/between inanimate businesses is one thing but there is no need to be quite so personal..My last post was partly tongue in cheek (context) but actually factual,as is the previous poster`s observation..I think I have always attempted factual & positive posts on this thread... thanking you...

[pabely]

I was only responding to the fact that the WOW DFW announcement seemed not to be directly related to STN or LGW, nothing in their press release says that, it says connections from Europe.
If every new connection by WOW from Iceland deems this be be news, fair enough I will keep quiet once more US destinations are added.
I was also asked how long to get for DFW to LTN, I responded to my home, I answered that as well. In fact returning via LGW using WOW saves 6 hours vs STN as well so can be back in office by lunchtime where via STN I am unproductive all day. If I was going to DFW on business then my employer would want the maximum benefit from me being there which relates to direct flights if possible.
If I was going on pleasure I would want to spend as much time there and not in a transit airport, or doing a quick tourist trip in between, my leisure time is precious but I'm not a 18-30 or wanting to do Europe in 5 days! :)

[southside bobby]

Pabely....Yer but yer but....I think it just depends which press release/announcement one reads...Travel Mole a well respected UK travel news consolidator amongst others carried the news in a v similar fashion,featuring obviously the news as applicable & viewed from the UK or the London market,accepted in a press release WOW are not going to run thru every & all multiple connections from their soon to be comprehensive network,I posted in relation to STN particularly cos it is fairly important to STN particularly,accept?..I will continue to post further news of connections from STN which may become available...so look away now...If you point out the time diff on return perhaps a flexible ticket may become available...Eventual re-banking out of KEF may help & AM STN slots also would...I`m sure London will be marketed in Dallas as available & a connection...I think you miss too the demographic perhaps of the model & market..but as you say perhaps not for you..the opportunities are a changing tho...

[AirportPlanner1]

Pabely, you might want to get to your destination as quickly as possible but there are many including the relatively well off that are happy to take a long transfer as it gives the chance to see someone new and somewhere you may not otherwise be bothered about travelling to specifically. For us Brits and other Europeans probably the best examples are Doha, Dubai and Abu Dhabi, eg Qatar lay on specific coach trips defending on how many hours you're there.

I agree that for us Brits a long stop in Iceland may be a bit of a nuisance, as it's not that far and we're able to travel there pretty easily. But put yourself in the shoes of Mr and Mrs American coming over for a two week tour of Europe. The chance to see a bit of Iceland is quite exciting.

[LTNman]

That kind of stopover is very attractive for Americans in particular heading over to Europe.

When they are just 9 hour direct flights? yeah right:confused:


daz211 wrote
Feel free to contribute with and positive comments but please do me a favour and stop with all the negativity, we all know you wouldn't be saying all this if the flights had been announced from Luton.

Really surprised at all the negativity towards pabely when he is just stating a fact. Maybe it is just an inconvenient fact that should not pass the thread censors.:oh:

southside bobby wrote
Come to think about it I`m struggling to remember the last major positive route development/ announcement from LTN....

Yes good news indeed as the place is full:ok:

AirportPlanner1 wrote

But put yourself in the shoes of Mr and Mrs American coming over for a two week tour of Europe. The chance to see a bit of Iceland is quite exciting.

Yes 45 minutes to get through the airport after a sleepless 8 hour night flight plus a different time zone so they will think it is the middle of the night. 2 hours to check back in and then add transport into and out of town. I can just see those Americans flocking to spend a few hours sightseeing fresh faced an bushy tailed. :8 Oh and I would make the same comment if I read the same nonsense on the LTN thread BUT saying that they could stay overnight I guess if the conditions of the cheap ticket allowed a longer stay.

Wow are not the only airline to offer indirect flight.

Indirect London Dallas flights via Aer Lingus and American £597 return, West Jet £613 return, British Airways and American £693 return plus others. No doubt Wow will attract some passengers but there are other options so don't expect to see many 10 gallon hats and cowboy boots.

[daz211]

[QUOTE=LTNman;9886084]When they are just 9 hour direct flights? yeah right:confused:


daz211 wrote


Really surprised at all the negativity towards pabely when he is just stating a fact. Maybe it is just an inconvenient fact that should not pass the thread censors.:oh:

southside bobby wrote


Yes good news indeed as the place is full:ok:

AirportPlanner1 wrote



i guess there is not many directions the conversation can go when he jumps in to the thread after another airline announced a new routes from STN and his comment is something along the lines of don't hold your breath they will move to Gatwick as soon as slots are available.
My point is valid he would not be putting the new routes / connections down it the airline had chosen Luton

That's the end of it from me not getting any further into Stansted v Luton :rolleyes:

[LTNman]

Who has mentioned Gatwick? If there was any consolidation I would think Stansted could be a winner as there are no other options for anyone who wanted to fly from Stansted.

Plenty of business for both LTN and STN to keep everyone happy. Not sure why there is an obsession here about that little airport in the Bedfordshire badlands or with anyone who normally posts there.

[southside bobby]

LTNman......You too fail with the model possibly cos your own demographic does not fit either..Wow & Primera have only one reason for landing in these American cities & that is the transferring pax.They together with Icelandair are all making use of the country`s geographic position to pull a large number of pax from all over Europe into the KEF hub & then onward,in a smaller version of the ME3 going East thru the desert..This is the modus being put together, they will gain even more traction as further destinations are added..So perhaps not vast amounts of cowboy boots @ STN to start,STN being just one spoke in the wheel,but there is much potential..You seem to not consider the advertising the other side of the pond...Your dismissals are somewhat reflective of heads of the legacy carriers when confronted with innovations(& they should have known better)...such as the ME3 & the LCC`s & more contemporary developments such as Norwegian....BTW I noticed ads from Norwegian on TV for the first time two nights ago,so perhaps they view the planned developments somewhat differently to you too & feel they have to advertise into the same potential markets now.You should not be too self satisfied with your hard wired status quo....AirportPlanner1 has a fair point too regarding transits thru DXB/DOH &c if pax care to take advantage,if you are not aware ask pax or even ask the airlines....Anyways interesting times...

[LTNman]

Fair enough. You make good points which has torn apart my argument which I respect.:ok:

[southside bobby]

Fair go LTNman....Certainly a fascinating industry sometimes predictable but more often perhaps err not...generally tho interesting times all round..:))

[AirportPlanner1]

Fair enough. You make good points which has torn apart my argument which I respect.:ok:

To come back also on the points about my previous post, you say people wouldn't choose this option because there are already 8 hour direct flights but then you sort of ruin your own argument by pointing out the fares for indirect options which are towards the top end of what WOW would ask for. Apart from the likes of NYC, Vegas, Orlando and LA, non stop fares to other US cities are often ridiculously expensive.

India/Sri Lanka are a similar journey time from here, yet many transfer through the Middle East or Turkey.

On transferring at KEF, you're times are quite wide of the mark. I've never had an issue getting through immigration quickly, and you shouldn't need to check in again. The Blue Lagoon is in close proximity to the airport, hence why the trips are run.

[daz211]

I'm hearing chatter that flyscoot are to make a decision on routes from Stansted or Manchester in the coming months the strange thing is the routes are to India or via India not sure if this has been mentioned but thought I would share.

[southside bobby]

Yes thanks for sharing...Scoot have mentioned MAN themselves this week,it is good to hear STN mentioned @ least in the chat,tho with the same owners MAN/STN not a total surprise I guess.Positively for STN tho the new CEO takes up position this month,he is accredited with much route development expertise with MAG /MAN hence the switch with CEO`s to build it @ STN..It appears Scoot are aiming to tap the Indian sub-continent lower cost market to Europe & the UK before Indian based airlines such as SpiceJet who have indicated the same (LGW) interest,tho at present not having the equipment..Scoot will fly via the sub-continent too as they obviously have no wish to dilute owner`s SIA own traffic into the main hubs which may inc therefore MAN...Another interesting development...

[LAX_LHR]

I'm not sure where you have heard that chatter as London is not included in the India 5th freedoms so unlikely to allow Scoot to fly SIN-India-STN. Current 5th freedom bilaterals specifically state London and the US is not included.

Obviously nothing stopping Scoot starting SIN-STN as a stand alone route, but SQ have also mentioned they don't want to dilute their London yields.

It's worth pointing out that the SQ51/52 serves 3 different purposes, SIN-IAH-SIN, SIN-MAN-SIN and MAN-IAH-MAN so should stand up on those 3.

The new Scoot routes are primarily aimed at India-Europe and Singapore India, so, won't be competing directly with the SQ51/52 in the traditional sense.

[Logohu]

but SQ have also mentioned they don't want to dilute their London yields.

Those yields could come under pressure anyway from Norwegian on LGW-SIN. Whether SQ's response is as simple as offering some heavily discounted fares in the back of their LHR A380s, or a limited Scoot operation from one of the other London airports, remains to be seen.

[STN Ramp Rat]

am I right to think that for the sake of bilaterals Stansted was declared not to be part of London some time ago. I might be completely wrong on that or it might have been a specific bilateral like the UK-US one.

[LAX_LHR]

Those yields could come under pressure anyway from Norwegian on LGW-SIN. Whether SQ's response is as simple as offering some heavily discounted fares in the back of their LHR A380s, or a limited Scoot operation from one of the other London airports, remains to be seen.

Indeed, Norwegian could be an issue but just reporting what was said.

Norwegian being incentive chasers, remains to be seen if Singapore has longevity, but it's also a market that sees a lot of competition and remains a strong route to this day, so, should be ok.

[LAX_LHR]

am I right to think that for the sake of bilaterals Stansted was declared not to be part of London some time ago. I might be completely wrong on that or it might have been a specific bilateral like the UK-US one.

So we have an airport that picks and chooses if it is part of London or not to suit its own gains. Superb.

Still doesn't alter the fact SQ/TZ have said they don't want to introduce London and that London hasn't been mentioned as a possible route in ANY article.

[southside bobby]

Keep the faith LAX LHR....:))

[southside bobby]

LAX LHR.. the airport does not "choose if it is part of London to suit it`s own gains" as you put it...HM Govt is the regulator but now in a heavily competitive London arena Government was signalling/drafting it was at the least considering extending the UK`s existing regional fifth freedom policy to LGW/STN & LTN ...whether this is in effect or it requires a submission/request/lobbying from an airline is not clear...Anyways with the `B` word coming into effect too I`m sure HM Govt would view all such submissions v liberally....
"SQ/TZ have not mentioned London"...but as I pointed out a new CEO in place @ STN will enhance all marketing prospects...& I did not have the impression the original poster was reading "articles"...Still time is gonna tell,but please do not be so negative about an equal family member..:))

[southside bobby]

Noticed today the BAW/BACF STN service to & from IBZ is dual coded with IBE...

[LAX_LHR]

Southside bobby.

You mention it's an equal family member but was it not you who recently tried to ram down our throats about how STN would soon eclipse MAN for pax numbers. Again, only equal when it suits you.

Also Its not negative re:Scoot, it's reporting on what's already known. New manager or not, STN hasn't been mentioned at all

[daz211]

Southside bobby.

You mention it's an equal family member but was it not you who recently tried to ram down our throats about how STN would soon eclipse MAN for pax numbers. Again, only equal when it suits you.

Also Its not negative re:Scoot, it's reporting on what's already known. New manager or not, STN hasn't been mentioned at all

You say STN hasn't been mentioned but what I think you ment was you haven't heard STN mentioned I have a very reliable contact that assures me STN has been mentioned and behind the scenes there is a lot going on to bring scoot to STN I'm not saying it will happen I'm saying negotiating are ongoing involving MAG and Scoot regarding MAN and STN only time will tell and I'm told we will know before November

[LAX_LHR]

Yes I did say STN hasn't been mentioned, because it hasn't. There is not one single article that mentions a possible London route, never mind Stansted.

Rumours happen all the time and you may have a good source, but I am talking purely publicly at the moment, and what we have seen is a quote that said 'London isn't under consideration as we don't want to dilute our SQ product'.

I just think a large market like London, if Scoot was under consideration, don't you think they would want to advertise that?

I too am not saying Scoot will never happen from STN, but as of this time, we have seen nothing public to suggest it's imminent and that's the only point I'm interested in for the sake of this argument.

[BHX5DME]

I have been told Scoot have no plans to serve any airport that Singapore fly too - which makes sense and dismisses Manchester.
Stansted makes sense as it is well away from the Singapore operation at Heathrow.
So it looks like MAG are talking to Scoot as you would expect them to be.
BHX makes more sense still

[LAX_LHR]

Well, if scoot has no plans to serve Manchester, we better tell their Indian area manager, as he certainly seems to think they are looking to serve Manchester, and Copenhagen for that matter too. Or are people just choosing to ignore the now 20+ articles stating specifically Manchester? I'd rather believe one of the managers from scoot than an unknown and completely unverifiable source.

In fact, scoot might need to pull a lot of their destinations if they are not to serve any SQ airport........

[SWBKCB]

My understanding is that Scoot are aiming to exploit fifth freedom rights out of India, and that this is the main market. So, routing Singapore-India for that market, and then India-Europe as a different market.

In this scenario, the competing against SQ argument falls away. More like competition for the ME3.

[southside bobby]

LAX LHR...Whilst you are correct quoting the public facts it does appear you are choosing to ignore & to give any credence or thought to other`s input...Scoot may not appear at STN but you should take from the posts that STN will be in the mix when MAG is talking with any airline..This is a rumour mill as well & perhaps you are not aware of negotiation & even the non information within those negotiations...only @ the v top is anybody within Scoot really aware...I know you like to see the appearances & quote only from the GDS system,so we can will leave you to that..
Although......SWBKCB in his first paragraph at least is nearer the portrayal of the intended market & perhaps in his second paragraph but not his intended point stating competition with/for the ME3 so perhaps that would also serve to steer a new entrant away from an ME3 saturated airport...just a thought..
The position swap between MAN & STN which you rightly know is CEO not "manager"...

[LAX_LHR]

Southside,

Have you actually read my posts or have you just gone into 'someone has said something ever so slightly negative so full on defence mode required'?

Reason I say that is that I haven't ignored anything, how can I ignore something I have replied to? Secondly, yes, I have quoted public fact, how there can be an issue with that is beyond me but there we go. I may not be giving credence to the rumours yet because thus far, we have seen public quotes against a STN flight (facts) versus rumours (no verification). Yes, scoot may well be talking to STN, but that means nothing until the airline says something about the airport. MIAT Mongolian met Manchester Airport last year, doesn't mean I think there is a route to Ulaan Bator in the making and willing to strike anyone down who dares not to believe me, does it!

Also, I'll say again, I have not said that Scoot will never come to STN, I wouldn't say that about any airline and any airport, you can never say never in this industry. All I have said is that Scoot hasn't been mentioned in any article (factually correct) and while there may be some leeway in it, Scoot cannot serve London-India (factually correct).

If you cannot handle factual information then that's not my issue, so I'll leave it there.

[SWBKCB]

SWBKCB in his first paragraph at least is nearer the portrayal of the intended market & perhaps in his second paragraph but not his intended point stating competition with/for the ME3 so perhaps that would also serve to steer a new entrant away from an ME3 saturated airport...just a thought..

The presence of competitors shows there's a market, and Scoot would be offering direct flights between UK-India, as opposed to the ME3.

[FRatSTN]

Lets not get our knickers in a twist shall we?

In my experience at least, the ink is often dry on a lot of commercial deals long before they are made public, so I would hardly agree that only what goes in the press can be described as fact. Companies believe it or not don't tend to share that kind of information before it goes public.

Equally, so called contacts spreading gossip to outsiders about any kind of development behind the scenes would no doubt be in severe breach of contract. Quite frankly my credibility would be far more important to me.

It's good to see a bit more discussion on the STN thread finally, but let's try to stay civilised.

[rog747]

i had to look twice at the post above about SQ/TZ looking at new routes from STN

TZ, many may recall, was the code used by ATA Airlines, aka American Trans Air, the Indianapolis-based carrier that went under in 2008.

[southside bobby]

Okey Dokes rog747....perfectly correct ATA landed @ STN too more than once & many remember them & yup TZ was their prefix when in business..For my bad I copied a certain other poster as much to highlight my reply...Scoot is of course TR..c/s "scooter"...
Not detracting but you are aware too of course prefix`s are re-used,a case in point causing a bit of comment is coincidently Wow Air who have on some flights in Scandinavia being using WW which of course at one time belonged to BMI....

[compton3bravo]

Could you repeat that again southside bobby in understandable English please. Ampersands are never used except for company names, also @ is never used in a sentence.As someone who was connected with the media for over forty years I find the standard of written English nowadays to be appalling.

[Planespeaking]

Could you repeat that again southside bobby in understandable English please. Ampersands are never used except for company names, also @ is never used in a sentence.As someone who was connected with the media for over forty years I find the standard of written English nowadays to be appalling.

I have already posted on another thread about southside bobby's incomprehensible English. No doubt he has points to make but regrettably I can't be bothered to try and decipher his sentence construction.

[pamann]

I have already posted on another thread about southside bobby's incomprehensible English. No doubt he has points to make but regrettably I can't be bothered to try and decipher his sentence construction.

Seriously guys!

This website and forum gets worse and worse by the day with constant nitpicking and bitching. Not everyone speaks the Queen's English nor do they type it. However I can understand Southside's posts, it really isn't that difficult it is clearly just Southside's style. It's as bad as poking fun at someone because they are different. No one posting here is employed by Pprune to police these forums as the 'Grammar Police'. So please just give it a rest and wind your necks in.

I used to really enjoy reading the facts and mostly rumours on this site but I pretty much give it a wide berth these days because some of you regulars who post here are like a bunch of precious old women.

[rog747]

Okey Dokes rog747....perfectly correct ATA landed @ STN too more than once & many remember them & yup TZ was their prefix when in business..For my bad I copied a certain other poster as much to highlight my reply...Scoot is of course TR..c/s "scooter"...
Not detracting but you are aware too of course prefix`s are re-used,a case in point causing a bit of comment is coincidently Wow Air who have on some flights in Scandinavia being using WW which of course at one time belonged to BMI....

thanks yes and prefix WW was Bmi Baby

BD was BMA/BMI mainline scheds and the charters from 1964 until closure/merge with BA

BD has now gone to some little airline in south Asia or Pacific i think


Scoot is now TZ it seems

[southside bobby]

roq747....yes right of course WW ="be my baby"....thanks for your correction..
Must admit contradictory info out there but another source does indeed state TZ for Scoot & it would not be like the original replier to the thread to make an error with prefixes..
Anyways I hope they still have their c/sign as "scooter" cos it`s clever & well bad!!..oooops = good...:))

[LAX_LHR]

It seems Scoot is now being sold as tiger air so now has changed over to the TR call sign, has only been a recent change so still some confusion.

[SWBKCB]

Scoot and Tigerair Merger (http://www.flyscoot.com/en/en-brandmerger)

On 25 July 2017, the integration will be finalised and Scoot and Tigerair will merge to operate under a single brand, Scoot. With the merger, Tigerair will operate under the Scoot brand, however the Scoot designator code (TZ) will be re-designated as TR.

[southside bobby]

Ta.....just as my further researches have revealed & in more succinct form than most!.. & of course the Tigerair mentioned is Tigerair (Singapore) only..

[racedo]

This website and forum gets worse and worse by the day with constant nitpicking and bitching. Not everyone speaks the Queen's English nor do they type it. However I can understand Southside's posts, it really isn't that difficult it is clearly just Southside's style. It's as bad as poking fun at someone because they are different. No one posting here is employed by Pprune to police these forums as the 'Grammar Police'. So please just give it a rest and wind your necks in. .

:D:D:D:D
Here Here

[leadinghand]

Ladies,isn't it about time someone posted a decent rumour on this Rumour Network?

[leadinghand]

Let me be the first..
with thompson pulling their longhaul out of stn next year the stage will be set for another carrier to enter the fray.Top of the list of contenders at the mo appears to be AA followed by a certain chinese carrier.

[mik3bravo]

Let me be the first..
with thompson pulling their longhaul out of stn next year the stage will be set for another carrier to enter the fray.Top of the list of contenders at the mo appears to be AA followed by a certain chinese carrier.

Hang on - AA as in American Airlines?🤔

[canberra97]

Let me be the first..
with thompson pulling their longhaul out of stn next year the stage will be set for another carrier to enter the fray.Top of the list of contenders at the mo appears to be AA followed by a certain chinese carrier.

Never been a P in Thomson!

That always annoys me just as much as Stanstead does...rant over.

Regarding American Airlines I can't see them making a third attempt at Stansted.

[southside bobby]

STN records 2.7m pax in August + 9.9% it`s busiest ever month & for a rolling 12 month total of 25.4m.:ok:..Cargo marginally up in August with 21,000 tonnes + 1.4% & rolling 12 month figure of 259,400 tonnes which is a 4% increase..

[southside bobby]

canberra97...just for the record & I know you aim for completeness too, American Airlines 2nd coming @ STN was not really an "attempt" as such & not a full network integrated permanent approach,it was purely aimed @ Eos & MaxJet...job done they were "outta here big style"...Whether a 3rd coming has any credence well logic says no.........(however)..

[canberra97]

I am totally aware of why American Airlines had their second attempt at Stansted to fight off EOS and Maxjet and the reasons behind it but a third attempt at the airport in my opinion won't happen.

ps notice I used 'and' rather than & and 'at' rather than @ or even 'third' rather than 3rd.

[southside bobby]

pps...& I notice you are still using the word "attempt" it was not an attempt it was just a strategic ploy & that was the reasoning for my post as attempt suggests possible failure as an outcome & in the STN context 2nd time around it was an absolute success...so one attempt & one success right?...& in my opinion too as I stated a 3rd coming is not logical......
Oh & by the way I notice everything but will not discuss my deliberate keyboard use with you.Can you & the others please keep the discussions or exchanges to relevant issues which we are more interested in rather than attempting to score cheap irrelevant points.Ta

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=southside bobby;9888463]pps...& I notice you are still using the word "attempt" it was not an attempt it was just a strategic ploy & that was the reasoning for my post as attempt suggests possible failure as an outcome & in the STN context 2nd time around it was an absolute success...so one attempt & one success right?...& in my opinion too as I stated a 3rd coming is not logical......
Oh & by the way I notice everything but will not discuss my deliberate keyboard use with you.Can you & the others please keep the discussions or exchanges to relevant issues which we are more interested in rather than attempting to score cheap irrelevant points.Ta[/QUOTE
SSB the adverse comments regarding your posts are because of your 'deliberate keyboard use'. Cannot you find a pattern forming here? It is not that people are trying to score 'cheap irrelevant points', it's just that we would like to understand what you are saying. We appreciate your support for STN, please help by writing your posts in intelligible English.

[01475]

None of us are obliged to type anything, and none of us are obliged to read everything that has been typed.


I always work on the basis that people should type how they please (bearing in mind that if they were typing something because they want people to read it, the number of people who do so may be affected by the way they decide on) and that people should read what they want to (keeping in mind that they may miss something interesting based on what they want to).

If it really upsets anyone then there is an ignore list feature.

[canberra97]

We don't want or even feel the need to use the ignore list all we want or expect from adults as in posters on these forums is for them to type in a manner that others can understand not in a gibberish childlike manner.

It's as if SSB has a different mentality when it comes to the English language and if he thinks he is being clever by doing so it only looses him any credibility on these forums so until he grows up and conducts his post in a more familiar way he can't be taken to seriously.

I think that's what others including myself are trying to get across.

[Skipness One Echo]

ps notice I used 'and' rather than & and 'at' rather than @ or even 'third' rather than 3rd.
We don't want or even feel the need to use the ignore list all we want or expect from adults as in posters on these forums is for them to type in a manner that others can understand not in a gibberish childlike manner.
This is the third time you've had a public spat with someone this week that's become a playground spat. Use private messages if you want to have a go at another person, it's tedious for the rest of us.....

[canberra97]

Skip

We've had words in the past and I would prefer out of all people for you to personally keep your thoughts to yourself.

Your the first person to put someone down either on here or on airliners.net for far less than what I have wrote.

[pamann]

Can we please get this back on track and in the nicest possible way Canberra97 can you wind your neck in and build a bridge for the sake of all of us here.

Thank you.

[canberra97]

pamman

Yes I will secumb to your advice and I agree let's get back on track as I prefer to take it from yourself rather than someone else as in skip.