STANSTED - 2

[LGS6753]

The first person to comment on the above-mentioned article has it right:

It's rather a smack in the face for MAG who bought Stansted recently on the assumption that is was best placed for expansion and short-term growth. Paying £1.5bn for the asset (£.5bn over the initial spot price) can't help the misguided CEO in feeling very festive either

[nigel osborne]

Anyone got a list of yesterdays divs.. saw the Jordanian 321 ,AZ and a few BA319s..?

Nigel

[anna_list]

Have Ryanair closed the summer seasonal route to Dole in eastern France, or is it just taking a very long time for schedules to appear ?

Hello and season's greetings to all.

I don't know whether Dole will appear or not for next summer, but looking at the loads it is the second worst Ryanair route from Stansted with an average flown load factor barely over 50%, peaking at 76% in August. Of course yields do not necessarily correspond to loads and there may be marketing 'arrangements' with the airport that can make a route profitable even with low loads. Incidentally, the worst performer was Maastricht.

[BHX5DME]

12:59 SWR45C HB-IYT Avro 146-RJ100 E3380 Swiss European Airlines 10250 1075 13:13 CFE39D G-LCYO Embraer ERJ190-100R 19000430 BA Cityflyer 9000 1025 15:20 REA6EN EI-FAT Aerospatiale ATR72-600 1097 Aer Arann 21000 1125 15:22 LGL95E LX-LGM De Havilland Canada DH8-402Q 4425 Luxair 15175 1275 15:50 AZA97U I-BIXQ Airbus A321-112 586 Alitalia 30350 1225 17:19 NAX2441 LN-DYF Boeing 737-8JP/W 39004 Norwegian Air Shuttle 28750 1275 17:31 SWR45U HB-IYS Avro 146-RJ100 E3381 Swiss European Airlines 30000 1300 17:56 SWR49B HB-IXP Avro 146-RJ100 E3283 Swiss European Airlines 27975 1250 19:05 SWR48U HB-IXO Avro 146-RJ100 E3284 Swiss European Airlines 28000 1325 21:50 RJA111 JY-AYT Airbus A321-231 5099 Royal Jordanian Airlines 24000 1450 21:59 MON249 G-OZBH Airbus A321-231 2105 Monarch Airlines 27000 1450 22:00 AZA20Y I-BIXA Airbus A321-112 0477 Alitalia 35875 1450

[nigel osborne]

BHX5DME.

Many thanks for you time to deliver this.

Best wishes

Nigel

[Bagso]

Stansted: News releases (http://www.stanstedairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/mag-responds-to-caa-economic-regulation-announcement)

Confused?

This implies that MAG can charge what they like within reason, but I assumed that MAG had negotiated ultra low cost lock-in deals based on a guaranteed commitment to growth.

[BasilBush]

Bagso

Airport charges are only regulated if the airport is viewed as having significant market power. When airport privatisation took off back in 1987 four UK airports were subject to such price control - the BAA London airports of Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, and Manchester. Manchester was removed from price control a few years back, the regulator (CAA) and DfT having been convinced that it operated in a competitive market and did not require prices to be capped. Now that Stansted has been sold by BAA the regulator has now decided that it too is operating in a competitive market and does not require price control.

So airport charges at Stansted are now determined purely by negotiation, as has been the case at MAN (and all other non-London UK airports).

Airport charges at Heathrow and Gatwick remain subject to regulation, although the regime has been loosened slightly at Gatwick.

[LGS6753]

Ryanair furious over Stansted deregulation (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=9613&news_id=2009718)

The CAA's Deregulation Of Stansted Airport Is More Regulatory? (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/the-caa-s-deregulation-of-stansted-airport-is-more-regulatory-failure-that-will-harm-consumers)

[Bagso]

Thanks Basil

Certainly upset RYR although still don't understand why, I assumed it had a long agreement of low charges in place in exchange for massive expansion ?

[BasilBush]

Yes, Ryanair seemingly has such an agreement. But I suppose they want the added protection that a greedy owner of STN might try it on and increase charges in future, as BAA did in 2006. They conveniently forget, however, that the 2006 increase in charges (actually an expiry of previous time-limited discounts) was sanctioned by the CAA - in that the regulatory price caps have always been higher than the prices actually charged by the airport. Stansted has never been able to price up to the maximum allowed by the CAA, unlike LHR and LGW.

[davidjohnson6]

I imagine that any contract between Ryanair and Stansted will specify airport charges for only limited period of time - perhaps 3 or 5 years. Beyond that timeframe the fees will be open to negotiations
Worth noting that if demand for flying and thus runway slots around London increases as time passes but no new runway is available to use for over 10 years then one might expect Stansted to become a lot more busy and MAG less willing to grant big discounts. Perhaps possible that STN will have a different structure of fees - whereby landing between 2100 and 2359 on a Sunday suddenly becomes very expensive compared to landing at 1500 on a Tuesday. Would make FR's position at airport charges negotiations in 2018 considerably weaker

[BasilBush]

Yes, the CAA's decision raises some concerns that the much-vaunted contractual arrangements might not last, and reserves the right to intervene if that leads to unreasonable behaviour by the airport owner. In practice, however, once an airport is deregulated it will require something pretty awful to happen before price controls are reintroduced.

[FRatSTN]

I think's it's very hard to say whether this is good or bad news at the moment.

Is the regulation simply just price caps or maximum limits to charges? Or does it have further limitations attached such as rules on certain deals or pricing structures for example?

[BasilBush]

There will be no direct controls on charges after April. Airlines will still have general protection under wider Competition law, and also against unreasonable discrimination. But the price caps that have been in place since privatisation will go (not that these have had any real impact at Stansted).

[southside bobby]

Good to see Stansted back in positive numbers with it`s first year under new ownership.Pax for December `13 + 7.7%,itself being the fourth consecutive month of growth & marking the first year on year growth since 2007.. Regards, The Southside..

[Angels-One-Five]

Slots booked for the summer reportedly up by double figures percentage.

No doubt the LTN crowd will be over in a minute to point out why this is terrible for the airport and repeat that 'no-one wants to fly from Stansted...'

[pamann]

It has been mentioned on the EMA thread, but do Low Cost Holidays dot com actually charter their own flights? It does seem they have a programme from Stansted this coming summer which do not seem to tie in with any of the TOM/TCX flights or those offered by EZY/FR.

Destinations seem to include: Palma, Ibiza, Tenerife, Faro.

Any ideas?

[Angels-One-Five]

Titan (AWC) are based at Stansted.

Jet2 also have aircraft there most evenings for the mail runs.

[LTNman]

No doubt the LTN crowd will be over in a minute to point out why this is terrible for the airport and repeat that 'no-one wants to fly from Stansted...'

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

[Angels-One-Five]

Yes you are that dull.

But on time - gotta give you that.

[Skipness One Echo]

No doubt the LTN crowd will be over in a minute to point out why this is terrible for the airport and repeat that 'no-one wants to fly from Stansted...'
15 posts and already pointlessly LTN baiting? What username were you previously banned as then? So what operator is driving the double digit growth in % "slots". Genuine question, I'm not a fanboy and am keen to learn.

[Angels-One-Five]

Ryanair reported to be basing 7 extra aircraft from the start of summer schedules.

Thomas Cook basing an extra aircraft (2 A321 rather than 1 A320)

Don't think any easyjet aircraft have been added yet but there is the distinct possibility.

Assuming the 7 FR airframes do 4 sectors per day, that's 28 sectors, or 56 movements - around 12% increase on the average daily movements from summer 2013. Add in the kestrel and any additional easyjet, business jet traffic (fayair and inflight are getting more bookings) plus the maintenance aircraft into and out if the diamond hanger (they have the Thompson maintenance contract and gave been retrofitting crew bunks to the 787 fleet as well as maintenance on the B738s).

Persistent rumour Air Blue might turn up at some point but I'm not convinced. Long haul service won't add many movements but would be good for the airport non the less.

LTN bating was meant as a bit of fun - it does seem that a lot if the posters based/interested in LTN are a obsessed with STN and determined to do it down. I think there is room for growth at both airports and I would like to see The dominance if Heathrow reduced but I know it's bit going to happen in reality.

[southside bobby]

Recently announced.....Ryanair to establish a new base in Athens & new routes include a daily Stansted service commencing 1/4/14,Regards...The Southside...

[LAX_LHR]

Air Blue will not be coming. They are pulling out of long haul conpletely and A340's are being returned.

[southside bobby]

Yes,thanks for info LAX LHR.....AirBlue`s travails have been well noted in various postings in recent weeks,I do not think the expectation was that "great" to be honest...Thanks again......Regards...The Southside..

[LTNman]

Ryanair reported to be basing 7 extra aircraft from the start of summer schedules.


Don't you mean re-instating 7 aircraft that were once based there. Will this bring Ryanair back up to its old total?

[sxflyer]

Looks as though BAWC/GSS will be pulling out in April. This is a big blow to the freight side of STN. Atlas are pursueing 'new opportunities' for the aircraft, but such opportunities could be anywhere in the world I would guess

Atlas Air Worldwide, British Airways to Pursue New Opportunities - Yahoo Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/atlas-air-worldwide-british-airways-130000501.html)

[southside bobby]

Yes sxflyer,a big blow for those associated/affected employees & for the cargo tonnage thruput at STN,fingers crossed that MAG being the largest Airport cargo operator in the UK with EMA/MAN/STN will be able to remedy part of the loss with their experience & knowledge of freight ops with their customer airlines.....Regards The Southside......PS...reported close down WEF from April...

[TOWTEAMBASE]

And Qatar rumoured to be picking up (some) of the pieces

[Skipness One Echo]

And Qatar rumoured to be picking up (some) of the pieces
BA are looking to use Qatar B777Fs but I wonder from which airport?

[LAX_LHR]

Qatar Cargo could well be Heathrow initially. They just brought the Cyprus Airways slots and I don't believe for one second they need a 6th daily passenger flight.

[flyingfortress]

Huge blow for us who deal with BA/GSS, didn't see that one coming.
Will have to wait and see where Qatar will go but not counting my chickens that they will drop off in STN.

[canberra97]

LAX LHR

I do believe the sale of the Cyprus Airways evening slots to Qatar fell through at the last minute and were sold to a yet unidentified airline.

[Buster the Bear]

My understanding was that a confidential agreement between the Cypriot Govt and Etihad for the sale of the slot existed. Leaks in Cyprus of the plans meant that another airline stepped in and sold slots to Etihad cheaper.

[Flightmech]

I think BA are buying space on the Qatar regular route network (not dedicated freighters) so don't think the 777s will be at STN. A real shame as although it affects GSS staff directly it also affects Aeropeople, Wickes, Servisair Cargo and others. Plus what will happen to "The Sandwich Policeman" and his little van?

[flyingfortress]

After reading the press release, I am led to believe that Qatar are using the 777 freighters 5 times a week.
As one of those workers in your list, let's hope they use STN.

[Buster the Bear]

Stansted Facelift Targets Long-Haul Elite as MAG Benefits - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-20/stansted-facelift-targets-long-haul-elite-as-takeover-lifts-mag.html)

[Skipness One Echo]

God they've had a new Terminal no airlines wanted for twenty four long years and yet they're still wittering on about long haul. It seems airport execs just get a rush of blood whenever long haul gets a mention.
It's the only thing that generates headlines or buzz.
I wonder how a once daily STN-DXB yield would compare against a fourth Gatwick or a sixth Heathrow. I mean it's not as if they need to serve STN to steal existing long haul connections from a legacy network carrier like at MAN/BHX/NCL/LGW/LHR who have a mix of BA/LH/AF/KL etc. It would be an actual clean sheet!

[pamann]

Here we go again :rolleyes:

Same old drivel from the same old suspects. What a surprise! Was only time before they crawled out from underneath their rock

Yawn...

Someone let me know when "The great aviation know-it-all's of PPRuNe" have crawled back under it and we can move on with a more positive outlook to the future. :ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

Which part did I get wrong?
List of long haul success from STN : " "

[BasilBush]

To be fair to MAG they have a pretty realistic view of Stansted's future, as a leisure-focused airport continuing to be dominated by its two major customers. They don't see STN as truly competing with LHR and LGW for long haul, but you can't blame them for trying to secure a small LH operation, despite the terrible history of LH at Stansted. But even if successful it will be small in numbers, and won't really change the nature of STN.

The improvements that Thompson mentioned are not really focussed at the long haul market - valet parking and airport-operated lounges have been quite successful at MAN and appeal to leisure travellers who want to upgrade their airport experience a bit. And the £80m terminal redevelopment is aimed at boosting retail sales by shifting the airside/landside boundary, while improving the security layout. It has nothing to do with long haul aspirations.

So I entirely agree with Skipness's realism about the STN market - the main issue is with the spin that has been put on the press release.

[davidjohnson6]

I know STN is LCC central, but the infrastructure is fundamentally good. It has good ground transport, on-site hotels, lots of parking, plenty of gates, long runway, spare passenger capacity, available slots and doesn't feel like a tin shed.

I don't expect a startup to NY to succeed any time soon, but what would be the major barrier to persuading a big Middle East carrier from opening a daily route in the hope of picking up passengers from North and East of London ?

MAG know STN is overly reliant on one carrier - seems essential that they try to diversify a bit.

[racedo]

I know STN is LCC central, but the infrastructure is fundamentally good. It has good ground transport, on-site hotels, lots of parking, plenty of gates, long runway, spare passenger capacity, available slots and doesn't feel like a tin shed.Aside from change in drop off which is a PITA, going up dropping off and leaving or picking someone up already waiting was one of the things I liked about it.

[LGS6753]

According to the Bloomberg release, STN provided 40% of the passengers, but only 30% of the revenue.

Evidently airlines aren't prepared to pay as much to use STN as they are to use MAN and EMA.

Worrying, when you've got all that debt to service.

[BasilBush]

Actually the STN proportion is 35.5% of group revenues from 39.0% of group passengers.

Total group revenue £390m, of which STN £138.4m. Total group pax 25.9m, of which STN 10.1m. All figures for the half year to 30 Sept.

Your point still stands - STN's unit revenues (and profits) are lower than the rest of the MAG group. But this will have been factored into MAG's bid.

[racedo]

Not necessarily as depends on what is happening to that Revenue last year, this year and next year as well as pax numbers. Need to see a trend not a snapshot.

[LGS6753]

Basil,

You may be right, but I was wrong. The Bloomberg article, linked above, shows that STN contributed £31.5m operating profit out of £108.2m group operating profitin the 6 months. (not revenue, as I stated).
This means that op.profit of STN was 29% of the total, for 40% of the pax. Even worse for MAG, as they have to service their debts from the op. profit.

[ATNotts]

This means that op.profit of STN was 29% of the total, for 40% of the pax. Even worse for MAG, as they have to service their debts from the op. profit.

Why is that so surprising? STN is "Farmfoods" whereas MAN is more akin to "Sainburys". One piles it high and sells it cheap and has a small range of products, the other has broader range of higher quality (profit) products.

MAG are probably quite happy with the mix within their business.

[LGS6753]

ATN -

It's not surprising, nor am I surprised.

My point is that MAG paid £1,500,000,000 for Stansted. It has to be assumed that, however they financed it, that £1.5bn has to be serviced - by way of interest payments or dividends depending on the structure of the deal. It's also likely that "operating profit" excludes any such payments. So, having spent their £1.5bn, the owners are receiving £31,500,000 towards their servicing costs in half a year. That amounts to a gross return on capital of 4.2%. Before tax, before any additional capital expenditure, and presumably before any corporate overheads.

I'm surprised that the taxpayers of Manchester are not up in arms about their council entering in to such a deal with their money.

[Ringwayman]

Yep, I'm up in arms at the prospect of Manchester Council benefitting from another potential £15m dividend. (last year's basic dividend being £42m with IFM and Manchester Council getting 35.5% each and other 9 local councils 29%). I can't think of too many business ventures that can benefit the council in such a manner. Let's hope they continue to "squander" money in such a beneficial way.

[LGS6753]

Ringwayman,

Your dividend is from the success of Manchester Airport, East Midlands and Bournemouth.
Stansted is an albatross around the neck of MAG, as I'm sure will become clear soon. And the one-off dividend was (presumably) a gain from giving away 35% of the existing group to fund the new purchase.

[racedo]

Guys

Assumming its repayable debt (like your mortgage) then capital repayment is never shown on Profit and loss account.

No idea of debt structure used to buy Stansted. Interest charges are................charges not what is physically paid.

What is most important is cash flow........companies go bust making losses, companies go bust making profits, few go bust having very good cash flow.

First 7 months MAG will have done little other than understanding how it works, getting its future plans in order and talking to customers and suppliers.

Would expect the profit to go up very quickly with new ways of doing things and new growth.

[LAX_LHR]

And the one-off dividend was (presumably) a gain from giving away 35% of the existing group to fund the new purchase.


Those 'one off dividends' have actually been paid the past few years, despite some circles trying to convince us the council props up the airport.
Also, AFAIK funds made from the sale to IFM went into STN, not paid back to the councils.

[BasilBush]

My understanding is that last year's dividend was £72m, of which £30m was a one-off special dividend resulting from the refinancing that was done at the time of the STN deal. The 'normal' dividend was £42m, up from £20m the previous year.

Historically the dividends have been relatively low compared with the potential value of the airport, leading to suggestions that the local authorities would be better off selling the airport and investing the proceeds elsewhere. But with a new shareholder on board at MAG, a new more generous dividend policy seems to have been adopted. The new shareholder will certainly want a better cash return on its investment than what the local authorities have been getting these past years!

[Bagso]

I know STN is LCC central, but the infrastructure is fundamentally good. It has good ground transport, on-site hotels, lots of parking, plenty of gates, long runway, spare passenger capacity, available slots and doesn't feel like a tin shed.

Do those factors substantially improve revenues though ?

I get the impression the LCC market at STN is dominated by a much more discerning and highly cost conscious clientele.

The couple who have found they can get to Pisa for a long weekend for £100are not going to then spend a further £100, on car parking , chauffeur pick ups, duty free, et al.

East European migrants heading home twice a year , not likely to spend anything in retail ?

Backpackers to London !

I'm sure Basil can help us out here re projections but if pax numbers hit 20m at STN as promised by RYR what is the revenue stream then ?

If its on a like for like basis and assumes costs are broadly similar and there are no hidden charges for investment etc then I feel it will be a much lower proportion than Manchester BUT I may be wrong !

OK Manchester has RYR, JET2, EZY but it also has a wide variety of passengers on AF, LH, SIA, EK , UA etc etc

I also get the impression that a significant number of passengers using our LCC flights have swapped from IT and whilst a number will indeed be "a bit tight", a further number will pay for higher privileges.

I'm still confused on landing fees as well as I thought the catalyst for RYR at STN was a decrease in these as routes expanded ?

With the announcement last week that MAG could reset these in the future IF they did crank them up would RYR not just walk away again !

There seems to be a lot of store set by MAG in terms attracting new airlines but as I have said before who on earth is going to jump into RYRs bear pit ?

On long haul re EK the MAN flight are booked out solid, would they take a chance on a new service out of STN which has been a graveyard for long haul and would cost a lot to set up when they can simply up frequency in a proven market ! Personally I think this is where the focus is getting somewhat blurred in terms of strategy.

Have we lost focus on MAN in a attempt to woo traffic to STN, don't know, cannot complain at SAUDIA, Flynas, AC Rouge, USAir but are these routes initiatives DRIVEN by MAG OR the airlines themselves ?

Another one for Basil, how do the proposed synergies work ?

There seemed to be a lot of talk that buying STN lowers overall costs, are you able to elaborate with an example or two ?

[goldeneye]

Loganair operating as flybe will operate a twice-daily weekday service, and once on a Sunday, to Dundee from March 30.

This route is to replace the current Cityjet flight from LCY which is due to end of March.

Flight will be operated by a DO328.

Source (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/breaking-news-dundee-airport-gains-new-loganair-service-to-london-stansted-1.181756)

[BasilBush]

Bagso

You raise a lot of fair points and I certainly agree that MAG faces a lot of challenges in earning an attractive return on its investment.

But MAG's strategy is pretty clear. They want to kick start growth by doing deals with the incumbent carriers. Even though this involves discounting airport charges MAG will have calculated that there will be an overall increase in revenues due to higher volumes and also to commercial revenues from these extra passengers. Because STN has oodles of spare capacity MAG doesn't need to invest in new facilities to handle this growth in traffic, for the medium term at least. Secondly they want to boost commercial revenues, for example by the works to expand the departure lounge to create more retail facilities, at the expense of the underused check-in area. Thirdly they want to reduce operating costs, by a combination of running the airport more efficiently than BAA did, and sharing some support functions with MAG's other airports.

The theory is that all of this will lead to a rapid increase in profitability. Time will tell. I don't have inside info so I can't answer your question as to how STN's profits at 20m pax will compare with MAN.

On some of your other points.

Yes, LCC pax often spend less (on average) than other pax. But this is not always the case - some pax respond to having got a great deal on the air fare by splurging on things like lounge access etc. And airports can tailor their offer to LCC pax, for example by better 'grab and go' catering.

On landing fees, STN is now technically able to charge what it likes, subject to general Competition law. But the airport has only been removed from regulation because it is thought that the airlines now have enough power to stop the airport from putting up charges, for example by threatening to reduce traffic.

On synergies, I agree that these are limited, at least in relation to airport operational activities. But I'm sure there are a range of support activities (Board, marketing, procurement, insurance, planning, engineering support etc etc) that can be shared across MAG airports, reducing overall costs.

As I said earlier, time will tell as to whether MAG's £1.5bn gamble has paid off. But one thing is certain - by the time we know whether it's a good or bad deal all those responsible will have long gone, spending their bonuses etc!

[racedo]

Yes, LCC pax often spend less (on average) than other pax. But this is not always the case - some pax respond to having got a great deal on the air fare by splurging on things like lounge access etc. And airports can tailor their offer to LCC pax, for example by better 'grab and go' catering.

Based on Last year numbers each passenger generated £2.47 in operating profit. Operating Profit / Number of Passengers from 1st March to End Sept.
As said way back when new FR deal was being discussed the addition of 1 million passengers will not cause costs to go up that much as simply the resources are already there. Thereby adding a million passengers could make substantially more.


On landing fees, STN is now technically able to charge what it likes, subject to general Competition law. But the airport has only been removed from regulation because it is thought that the airlines now have enough power to stop the airport from putting up charges, for example by threatening to reduce traffic.

Agree


On synergies, I agree that these are limited, at least in relation to airport operational activities. But I'm sure there are a range of support activities (Board, marketing, procurement, insurance, planning, engineering support etc etc) that can be shared across MAG airports, reducing overall costs.

Not convinced as Stansted went from being the runt we can ignore in BAA to a growth opportunity for MAG. Focus alone will get things done better.


As I said earlier, time will tell as to whether MAG's £1.5bn gamble has paid off. But one thing is certain - by the time we know whether it's a good or bad deal all those responsible will have long gone, spending their bonuses etc!

Think it will pay off and will no way sooner than you think.

Operating Profit is important but its ability to generate shed loads of cash to get debt down and invest in upgrading facilities.

Seeing what happened at Gatwick following investment shows what can be done.

[Skipness One Echo]

Not convinced as Stansted went from being the runt we can ignore in BAA to a growth opportunity for MAG. Focus alone will get things done better.
Hang on, you're being terribly selective. BAA re-built Stansted for a role that never actually materialised. It was built to be a new airport for London and after having spent millions on a very nice facility (Ryanair's best btw) they discovered the newly liberalised and de-regulated market didn't want it for that purpose. Iit was then virtually gifted to the locos after based carrier Air UK failed to maintain a viable base there as the growth of the locos began.

BAA built a very nice new STN against all airline advice then paid the price when reality kicked in. It has lovely facilities and growth potential galore as it's not as busy as it was supposed to be.
MAG are looking to make something of STN but the main reason BAA gave up and concentrated on LHR is that they tried everything to get other airlines in and no one was having it. BAA got badly burned by the whole debacle, all credit to MAG if they get things on a surer footing, but the transport strategy that got us to where are now was a fantasy in the 80s, compounded in the 90s then forgotten in the noughties. #goldfish

[nt639]

Was it not the case that BAA were forced to sell STN but wanted to keep hold of it right up to the end.

Skipness why do all of you recent posts all seem to be anti STN, are you joining LGS & the Luton Fanboys?

[Skipness One Echo]

Was it not the case that BAA were forced to sell STN but wanted to keep hold of it right up to the end.
They wanted to sell at the top of the market, not quite where STN was, that's reasonable.
Skipness why do all of you recent posts all seem to be anti STN, are you joining LGS & the Luton Fanboys?
I replied to a similar point under Dundee which I have moved here for relevance. I have no beef in local turf wars, I really, really don't.
Moved from the Dundee thread
Skipness One Echo I must ask. Why are you so anti anything and everything Stansted?
I think STN is a great airport, I have used it many times with Ryanair. However I think an understanding of the demographics, why NAX moved to LGW, why American did not remain after EOS collapsed, why Continental gave up, why SAS, Lufthansa and Air UK went away are helpful. Also to understand why the remaining core operation is easyJet and Ryanair, Air Berlin and Germanwings, there are quantifiable reasons for what works and what went away forever. Domestic services on say, Do328s to Scotland are filed firmly under yesteryear. As for anyone who thinks the Aurigny service to JER/GCI is genuinely comparable is mistaken, one cannot board a train to the channel islands so one turboprop each day has 100% of the point to point market. This is really taxpayer subsidy to allow businessmen on expenses to save minutes in Scotland that they'll need to lose at the other end getting into London from STN, if it's for leisure that's even worse as EDI is already very accesible from Dundee. The taxpayer has absolutely no business here.
It's not about me hating "Team Stansted", I am just staggered at how in business, a lack of institutional memory (or stupidity / naivety) allows a lot of money to be wasted repeating the same mistakes.
I fully support the based airlines doing what they do but the waters get muddied badly when people witter on about expanding STN with two runways into a "hub" when they singularly fail to see why it's sitting half empty with one runway. It's a market behaviour, a real world, business friendly quanitfiable metric, not all that complex. I wholly support STN for what it is and try not to laugh to hard at those trying to sell it as something it's never been. Where else do you see Ryanair and easyJet in such "palatial" surroundings as some Irish CEO once said?

Indeed, this flight has been running for over 20 years and is well used. Aurigny nowadays rather than Rockhopper.
Do I need to touch on the fact it has connections to god knows how many destinations via FR & EZY
Go educate yourselves. I bet half of you don't even have the experience of ever having used Stansted.
I think you need to educate yourself first.
Number of connections offered by Ryanair = Zero
Number of connections offered by easyJet = Zero
They are point to point low cost operators who don't offer connections. That's the whole business model, by all means fly from Scotland to STN and connect but at your own risk and more than likely on easyJet....
unlike it's competitor at 'Bedfordshire International'. = tribal silliness really, come on.

[pamann]

Funny how a lot of us think the same though. :ok:

Let's move on to some positivity. Some of you are beginning to make my eyes bleed to be honest. :zzz:

[racedo]

BAA built a very nice new STN against all airline advice then paid the price when reality kicked in. It has lovely facilities and growth potential galore as it's not as busy as it was supposed to be.
MAG are looking to make something of STN but the main reason BAA gave up and concentrated on LHR is that they tried everything to get other airlines in and no one was having it. BAA got badly burned by the whole debacle, all credit to MAG if they get things on a surer footing, but the transport strategy that got us to where are now was a fantasy in the 80s, compounded in the 90s then forgotten in the noughties.

They had pretty much forgotten about it and just wanted to offload.

[FRatSTN]

I think BAA is better left in the past. They were a nasty, greedy airport monopoly that spared no thought to anywhere or anyone other than Heathrow. They epically failed and finally paid the price. That's why they no longer exist! What they are now known as I think explains exactly where their priority is clear enough! Not to mention the suggested sales of SOU, ABZ and GLA.

But bizarrely everything Skipness refers to is under BAA management. Yet just a year into MAG ownership and Stansted becomes one of the UK's fastest growing airports and it's fair to say new carriers are coming in quicker than they have done for several years. Funny how that happens. Some co-incidence would you say Skipness?

[j636]

MAG are going the exact same way as BAA, they are gathering a monopoly in the UK to!!!

Before STN MAG were all MAN like BAA were LHR and didn't do much for there other airports oh wait they sold one instead.

[Skipness One Echo]

Funny how that happens. Some co-incidence would you say Skipness?
As I alluded to they tried everything to make it work, to save face, then just lost the will to continue pushing it. Terminal 5 was given the green light twenty years late and LHR became a delayed focus as the shameful neglect there was addressed belatedly. Bare in mind the LHR airlines had been angered by substantial capital investment being focussed on STN when they were paying serious money to LHR and seeing facilities fall into neglect. STN was the major focus after Terminal 4 and later the North Terminal at Gatwick opened.

MAG can do all sorts of things to get traffic in, BAA got Continental, Lufthansa, SAS, American Airlines (twice) but all were unsustainable. Right now MAG are getting the traffic back up, I genuinely hope they succeed where BAA failed. It's re-writing history to suggest they didn't try very hard though.

[pamann]

So a year on and Stansted under MAG ownership has achieved...


Thomas Cook increasing based units from 1 x A320 to 2 x A321
Air Maldova (poached from LGW)
Atlantic Airways (Poached from LGW)
Aegean Airlines (Return of at peak seaon)
Ryanair increase/return of of 7 based units
FlyBe in the disguise of Logan Air (as announced today)


We should also now see potential future growth from EasyJet. Not bad really for a year seeing it was stagnant under BAA's ownership. Will be interesting to look back in a years time. :ok:

One thing I will add is that having used Stansted recently the new security area looks a bit cheap and shabby like some poor MFI job. I do hope they improve on it.

[LTNman]

So we have a list of gains but what has Stansted lost in the last year?

There are a few easyjet aircraft based at Southend I am sure MAG would like to get back.

[Burnie5204]

One thing I will add is that having used Stansted recently the new security area looks a bit cheap and shabby like some poor MFI job.

Welcome to MAG terminal redevlopments....

[boeing_eng]

As I have always said Stansted is a great airport and I am a fan of the place but I wonder why the business jet community has never really taken to the place and prefers Luton.?

The main reason STN fails to attract Biz-Jets in similar numbers to LTN is location,location,location!

[NickBarnes]

Im hoping Stansted will get some long haul flights back, would be really great to see, but i agree Stansted has improved since BAA have gone, so lets forget about them and look to a brighter furture:ok:

[LTNman]

The main reason STN fails to attract Biz-Jets in similar numbers to LTN is location,location,location!

It has a better location than Farnborough I would have thought when it comes to getting to central London.

[Boeing 77W]

One thing I will add is that having used Stansted recently the new security area looks a bit cheap and shabby like some poor MFI job. I do hope they improve on it.

Couldn't agree more. It looks very poor. Same can be said for the new and 'improved' UK Arrivals.

[jdcg]

Security clearance is a lot quicker now though

[maggot738]

Long delays and several cancellations today due to Italian ATC strike!

[FRatSTN]

Schedules at Stansted for S14 look a lot less peaky than they have done for several years.

Typically from about 13:30/14:00 till 16:00 in the afternoon, the place usually pretty much went dead.

That no longer seems to happen where these times are significantly busier for S14. The busiest periods around early afternoon and early evening are also generally slightly less intense than previously, helping to make a much better spread of flights across the day.

Of course there's still going to be some busier and quieter periods, but nowhere near as extreme. Only a brief spell in the morning at around 09:00 or 10:00 and then in the evening for a short time about 21:00 or so, are generally quieter.

To put this into context, here is the Departures on a Monday between 13:00 and 15:00 in S13 compared to S14:

S13
EZY3103 13:05 Nice
FR2281 13:05 Warsaw-Chopin
QS2175 13:05 Gran Canaria
EZY259 13:15 Belfast-International
EZY3245 13:15 Ljubljana
FR2462 13:15 Bydgoszcz
EZY3189 13:20 Lyon
FR8474 13:20 Poitiers
FR032 13:30 Oslo-Torp
FR8182 13:35 Fuerteventura
FR225 13:40 Dublin
FR908 13:40 Cork
FR1396 13:45 Oslo-Rygge
FR2612 13:45 Santander
FR3004 13:55 Rome-Ciampino
FR4196 13:55 Milan-Bergamo
FR8132 14:00 Gran Canaria
GR625 14:20 Guernsey
FR8592 15:00 Bergerac

S14
EZY3103 13:05 Nice
FR4196 13:05 Milan-Bergamo
FR3004 13:10 Rome-Ciampino
EZY259 13:15 Belfast-International
EZY3071 13:15 Munich
FR2281 13:15 Warsaw-Modlin
FR2462 13:15 Bydgoszcz
FR1396 13:20 Oslo-Rygge
FR225 13:40 Dublin
FR908 13:40 Cork
FR2612 13:50 Santander
TOM5116 13:55 Gran Canaria
9U834 14:00 Chisinau
EZY3191 14:00 Lyon
FR032 14:05 Oslo-Torp
FR7965 14:05 Osijek
FR8132 14:10 Gran Canaria
FR8546 14:15 Berlin-Schonefeld
FR8182 14:20 Fuerteventura
GR625 14:20 Guernsey
FR105 14:30 Shannon
FR754 14:35 Frankfurt-Hahn
FR2404 14:35 Munich-Memmingen
FR8345 14:40 Porto
TCX7982 14:40 Bodrum
FR8592 14:50 Bergerac
FR9275 14:50 Eindhoven
FR5986 15:00 Madrid

[LTNman]

FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,FR,:zzz:

Almost a one horse airport:E The airport could do with a bit more diversity to give it a really secure future.

[mikkie4]

Thought EZY agreed with MAG to increase their flights from STN, may of had a change of heart

[nt639]

But still with almost double the amount of passengers as LTN & 18 times SEN & Rising :E

[LTNman]

Very true but another way to look at it is that Luton is running at almost full while Stanated is half empty:E

Joking aside what is Stansted's present capacity? What is Stansted's growth rate if you strip out FR?

[crewmeal]

And we all know if MOL has a hissy fit with management then he'll threaten to withdraw services as he demonstrated in the past.

BA will withdraw their freighter service next month. Will Air Atlas operate affected routes in their own name?

STN needs to do more to promote better links to the airport which are still a pain. The rail network needs to be more reliable along with the M11 which clogs up frequently. Parking charges don't help which put people off driving. Come on management talk with National Rail and improve the rail links from the Midlands North especially. A 2 car DMU rumbling through the countryside in 4.5 hours is no good.

[LadyL2013]

Uh-huh. At least other airlines are slowly increasing here, but still far too much orange and harps for my liking.

[Flightmech]

BA will withdraw their freighter service next month. Will Air Atlas operate affected routes in their own name?

Atlas Air will not be allowed to operate the routes in their own name. That's the whole reason Global Supply Systems was set up in the first place.

[southside bobby]

Another healthy increase for passenger numbers at Stansted for January `14 +7.2% making that the 5th consecutive month of growth,MAG are obviously doing something very right & with all the new contracts for Summer `14 growth & beyond still to come http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif..............Thanks to FRatSTN for previously posting the info regarding the "filling in" of schedules during the quiet afternoon zone at Stansted for Summer`14,this bears out the statement added when MAG/Ryanair announced their 10 year deal, that Ryanair would & would indeed need to add/move some schedules to take advantage of the quieter times of day at Stansted...so looking forward to further take up in future years as the contract rolls on:D...Regards The Southside..

[Fairdealfrank]

STN needs to do more to promote better links to the airport which are still a pain. The rail network needs to be more reliable along with the M11 which clogs up frequently. Parking charges don't help which put people off driving. Come on management talk with National Rail and improve the rail links from the Midlands North especially. A 2 car DMU rumbling through the countryside in 4.5 hours is no good.


Who was it who claimed that STN is the wrong airport in the wrong place?

Let's not do it again.

[FRatSTN]

From beginning of April, Air Moldova will now operate on Tuesdays and Saturdays instead of Mondays and Fridays.

Flight times are pretty much the same though, only 10 minutes later than previously. 9U833 now arrives in Stansted at 13:20, with 9U834 leaving 50 minutes later at 14:10 on both Tuesdays and Saturdays.

But the most interesting bit is that ALL flights will be upgraded to the Airbus A320 and will no longer be operated by the Embraer 190. It would seem the route is doing quite well back at Stansted and despite Carpatair giving Chisinau a go from Luton.

The not so good news is that it seems Aegean Airlines has removed the Stansted flights for the summer, leaving just the 3x daily Heathrow flights. Presumably Ryanair starting a daily Athens flight has something to do with it!?

[FRatSTN]

Just been looking at Aurigny website and found they are now doing separate rotations to Guernsey AND Jersey every day from 1st June. Therefore they now have 14 as opposed to just 8 weekly departures. New schedule is as follows:

Sun - Fri
GR622: Dep. Guernsey 09:30, Arr. London-Stansted 10:40
GR443: Dep. London-Stansted 11:10, Arr. Jersey 12:25
GR444: Dep. Jersey 12:55, Arr. London-Stansted 14:10
GR627: Dep. London-Stansted 14:40, Arr. Guernsey 15:50

Sat:
GR624: Dep. Guernsey 11:40, Arr. London-Stansted 12:50
GR445: Dep. London-Stansted 13:20, Arr. Jersey 14:35
GR446: Dep. Jersey 15:05, Arr. London-Stansted 16:20
GR629: Dep. London-Stansted 16:50, Arr. Guernsey 18:00

[daz211]

Just seen this on Stansted's web site
Sorry if its been talked about on here but I can't find it anywhere.

Manchester Airports Group (M.A.G) is today celebrating the first anniversary of its £1.5bn acquisition of Stansted Airport, which has opened up an exciting new chapter in the airport’s history.
In the first 12 months of new ownership, Stansted has already notched-up some big achievements, including:
launching a £260 million investment programme to improve the passenger experience;
agreeing long term growth deals with Ryanair, easyJet and Thomas Cook;
attracting new airlines: Air Moldova, Atlantic Airways, Loganair, Aegean, Transaero;
returning the airport to growth for first time since 2007;
securing CAA agreement to free Stansted from economic regulation;
gaining corporate business support for direct long-haul services.

The bit I'm talking about is long term growth deals
Transaero ? What route are they doing ....

[STN Ramp Rat]

Transaero ? What route are they doing ....


they operate a TU204 freighter to and from Moscow on Saturday nights in summer.

[mikkie4]

Could a PAX/CARGO flight work rather than just a cargo flight?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Any news on Qatar ?

[LadyL2013]

What aircraft will TOM be basing out of STN this summer, purely 738's or a couple of 752's too?

[Tranceaddict]

Any news on Qatar ?

QATAR AIRWAYS CARGO ANNOUNCES NEW FREIGHTER ROUTES (http://www.aviator.aero/press_releases/16278?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[TOWTEAMBASE]

That's good news. Any idea who the handler is

[dc9-32]

Missed opportunity maybe for GSS. Could they have offered a wet lease B777 to Qatar Airways under a variation of their B747 AOC ?

[Tranceaddict]

Stansted Airport Plans Premium Lounge for Blue-Chip Clients (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-04/stansted-discount-hub-plans-premium-lounge-for-blue-chip-clients)

Interesting?

[sxflyer]

The lounge is a great addition, yes it could mean long haul is imminent but either way it is a useful tool to raise the profile and image of the airport amongst the business community and premium travellers and get more of them passing through. It fits well with the enhanced EZY & FR offer.

They need an article in Canary Wharf magazine as SEN have done with their message being almost exclusively ease of use and the first class lounge - bang on for the demographic. The actual destinations served barely get a look-in

[virginblue]

According to an interview with the Etihad Regional CEO, Etihad Regional has shelved its plans to serve DUS from CBG and LCY due to a lack of suitable slots at the DUS end and will instead take over AB's DUS-STN route with up to four daily flights, using its Saab 2000s and thus freeing up the Q400 currently used by AB to STN.

Not sure if that is a smart move...

[sxflyer]

They would have to do pretty well to screw it up, this is the one route that has held its own over the years against true LCC competition and I think was one of Air UK's first international services. This one should be seen more as a DUS-East of England rather than just London area. Presumably it would still be sold through AB

Increased frequencies are good, though it's an overall drop in seats of around 34 per day. It would allow better connections to AB's long haul routes.

Having Etihad Regional at STN wouldn't be a bad thing. If you're going to have a small regional player on board you could do worse than it being one backed by one of the world's most financially powerful carriers.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Any news on Qatar handler yet. Has it even gone out to tender !!

[canberra97]

Are Emirates still operating their weekly cargo flight into STN?

With Etihad Regional now going to operate from STN could we see Eithad start flights to the airport from Abu Dhabi in the foreseeable future although my bets in any ME3 carrier starting passenger ops to STN would Emirates from Dubai.

[carbootking]

i think we will see the big carriers come in when the shop refurb is done , at the moment they have hardly any shops as all being knocked down and rebuilt , the new duty free will open in july and that is going to be massive so we might see something after that

[FRatSTN]

Quite a good little video that sums most of it up:
M.A.G celebrates first anniversary of £1.5bn Stansted Airport acquisition - YouTube

New Departure lounge looks superb in the artist impressions. Looks almost unrecognisable in some areas. Can't visualise where that image is at 0:32 in the video. Is that coming out of security into departures?

I'm too fairly sure there will be a number of new airlines that will follow the completion of this project.

[ATNotts]

i think we will see the big carriers come in when the shop refurb is done

I don't believe a refurbished shop will matter one jot in the decision making process of "big carriers" regarding opening services to STN.

Stansted already has two "big carriers" - in EZY and FR - and they serve the niche in the Southeast England market that the airport has made for itself.

Unless and until getting extra slots at LHR, and then LGW becomes too difficult the chances of STN getting "big carriers" - by which I guess we are talking UA, AA, SQ, EK, etc are but two - Bob Hope, and No Hope.

[sam dilly]

That's a very nice video message, but something is missing.....
Stansted has only one airline, that is actually British, and based at Stansted, with 1 x 767, 3 x 757, 3 x 737, and an A320 and they don't even get a mention, how peculiar !

[TUGNBAR]

Harrods Aviation regularly handle QATAR on the private side, would they go cargo?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Qatar OWN Harrods :-)

[Nogbad the Bad]

Memory fails over the years - I used to visit this place when I was a youngster, and took some photos of the airframes that ended their days here. Not the exotic ones, sadly, but Hastings, LC44's, Brits, DC4/6 as well as the DC7s that used to be in the compound.

Now, to the point of this post (at last) - I really can't remember where the Fire School and associated fire dump used to be - please, can anyone enlighten me ?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Where ever it was, there definitely isn't any ac there now, just a few old cars and the regulation Green "bitser" for training on. The existing one is nornthside

[lotus1]

I remember many years ago visiting manstons fire school what a exotic collection they had vulcans victors argosys also the remains of Britannia of British eagle which belly landed there. With regards to stanstead go on airliners.net they do haves selection of pictures stanstead is on there with old photos of the fire school they do have pictures of the ex Martin air dc6 and Caledonian Brit if that helps .

[Suzeman]

Long long time ago.....

Seem to think it was accessed from the A120 and therefore on the South side of the runway, so maybe around where the terminal or freight terminal is now?

[boeing_eng]

Yes, the Fire Training compound was on the South Side near the ATEL Hangars in those days. I can recall some old Britannia's and some DC-6's being present in the late 1970's.

[G-APDK]

The School was located approximately where the frieght sheds to the west of the terminal are today. At a guess I would say approximately at the southern end of the FedEx area.

There was a significant amount of land fill when the new terminal/cargo area was constructed, so no physical trace remains today.

Our historians/enthusiasts group (Air-Britain Stansted ) used to meet in the lecture theatre of the School during the late 60's /early 70's and we were fortunate to be given access to some of the training films and materials used. I wonder what happened to all of those rolls of cine film?

G-APDK
Air-Britain Stansted Branch

[Chopper69]

Hanger 4 I think was the ATEL location? The Fire School that I remember had a DC6? and when it was apparent that STN was soon to expand, the school was relocated to MME?? I worked at STN for many years (1979 - 1999) so I have a fairly comprehensive collection of Aircraft that visited, including step by step photos of the new Terminal construction. If anyone is interested I can scan and post (or rather my Son will!) or you can PM.

[G-APDK]

The School had two ex Martins Air Charter DC7s PH-DSL nad PH-DSO, among the airframes used for training. To my knowledge neither was burned but were broken up before the school moved to Tees-Side.

G-APDK

[Dannyboy39]

No doubt getting a good deal from MAG, Stansted and Ryanair have announced that weekly flights will rise from c500 per week, to 700 per week.


Good for Stansted no doubt, but so many eggs in one basket. As an anti-expansion critic has said on Look East, "you may as well rename Stansted, Michael O'Leary Airport".

[Flying.Penguin]

Good for Stansted no doubt, but so many eggs in one basket. As an anti-expansion critic has said on Look East, "you may as well rename Stansted, Michael O'Leary Airport".

On that chain of thought you could rename EGLL as "Willie Walsh Airport" & OMDB as "Tim Clark Airport" and so on.

[racedo]

As an anti-expansion critic has said on Look East, "you may as well rename Stansted, Michael O'Leary Airport".

Guess they have no relatives employed or relying on their income from Stansted.

[Dannyboy39]

OMDB as "Tim Clark Airport"

Emirates are going to up sticks and move to the Dubai Airport City aren't they, when it becomes fully operational?

[FRatSTN]

The new Ryanair winter schedule at Stansted looks very "organised" or "consistent" I suppose is the best way to put it. For example flight times are a lot less flexible on many routes, often flying the same times each day (which doesn't really seem to happen that often nowadays).

Plus routes with multiple daily frequencies are better spread throughout the day. For example, the 4 daily flights to Milan-Bergamo depart at 08:00, 12:00, 16:00 and 20:00, spaced exactly 4 hours between. (It hasn't been uncommon in recent years to see 2 flights to the same place leaving at almost the exact same time!)

I wonder if this particularly early release of Ryanair's winter schedule is so they can secure the slots to offer these more consistent and better distributed times, perhaps to look more attractive to business passengers? Just a thought, but kind of makes sense.

[HZ123]

I to worked at STN 72-75 and the fireman trainees from around the globe were housed in nissan huts, it adjoined a catering building company name escapes me ? Across the road from it toward the new terminal was a caravan site. As a Constabulary policeman we often used to set up a road block there for vehicle checks as a good number of the caravan residents did not bother with insurance, tax and MOTs'.

At this time I also recall a CL44 that sat on its belly a short distance from the ATEL hanger aside of a Mexicana Comet. The former was weighted down with concrete blocks. To my great surprise one day a rig appeared (like something from a Blue Peter project), the CL 44 was hangared refurbished over 6 months and took to the air.

Also at this time the Carvairs used to come from SEN for servicing. A lady from ATEL who may well have been called Veronica Pope gave me a number of pictures taken at STN of Freddy Lakers twin prop commuter aircraft which did its pre sales/publicity tour from STN. Anyone remind me what it was called ?

[Jack1985]

Seems to be back to previous years scheduling i.e. '06/07! Very good for business travellers to know stability of times through a certain season.

[Red Four]

You mean this one?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_Traders_Accountant

[Tagron]

No it was not the Accountant because it only flew a short test programme which was discontinued in 1958.

Perhaps HZ123 is referring to the Saunders ST27 which was a Canadian twin turboprop conversion (PT6A) of the DH Heron, and of which Aviation Traders had some part in the development. Photo on www.airliners.net at Southend in 1971. Google Saunders ST27 Southend to view.

The Fire School seems to have started in the early 1960s in the location already described. In those days the aircraft in the compound included a Lincoln, Javelin, Meteor NF and a Tudor.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Are etihad regional coming to STN ?

[whitelighter]

Replacing the twice daily AirBerlin DH8D service to dusseldorf with a four times daily service using Saab2000's

Apparently

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Thank you whitelighter,any idea when

[newscaster]

Dont recall Emirates cargo ever doing STN, if they did so when was it?

p.s I thought when you press reply the post being answered gets auto quoted.

[LTNman]

June 2013

easyJet and the new owners of London Stansted, M.A.G, have today announced a new long-term growth framework deal to enable the airline to more than double its passenger numbers at Stansted from a current 2.8 million passengers to six million passengers a year over the next five years.

So is there any expansion this year from easyjet?

[whitelighter]

Don't think so.

Other than more A320s rather than A319s

No extra aircraft as far as I can see.

[wallp]

Now that EZY have signed new agreements to expand at both LTN & LGW, is it realistic to expect major expansion at STN as well?

[whitelighter]

Dunno.

They seem to be signing agreements all over the place, all without their issues.

Gatwick doesn't have much extra capacity
Luton has the issue of AENA funding which is required for expansion to go ahead
Stansted has the Ryanair issue of route competition

I think Easy are keeping all their options open, and rightly so. The Stansted deal is supposed to be over a 5 year period and MAG have been a bit slow bringing the developments on line. I think less than one year since Easy announced the SS deal it's a bit early to be writing it off. If next year there is no increase in PAX then it may be more doubtful.

Have easy stated to take delivery if the new aircraft yet? That may also be halting expansion across the board

[LTNman]

I have always thought Southend was vulnerable to the Stansted agreement seeing that the Southend based aircraft came from Stansted.

[pamann]

I'm surprised there's no scheduled flights to MAH yet. There's a few gaps in the market such as MAH. It would be nice to see EZY increase their frequencies on some existing routes such as AMS and bring back ALC as I'm sure there could be room again for two on this route. RyanAir are not as cheap as they were back in 2007 either. I think time will tell...

Anyone any idea what and how many 320/319's EZY are basing here now?

[whitelighter]

8 aircraft.

6 319s, a 320 and a 320 Neo

[whitelighter]

I'm not sure EZY want to give up SEN routes. I assumed that any extra capacity was going to come from the new airframe order, be that shuffling stuff around or just sticking new airframes into the gaps.

SENs USP is check in to flight very quickly which is only possible because they are very quiet.

If they get busy, they lose their USP which may or may not be an issue for EZY.

[anna_list]

So is there any expansion this year from easyjet?

No, in fact according to the ACL start of season report (http://www.acl-uk.org/download.aspx?id=1027), Easyjet seat capacity and number of movements at Stansted will both be down by over 5% compared to last year.

[STN Ramp Rat]

No Panic .... its a five year deal and Easyjet have limited new aircraft joining the fleet and these will be targeted at using the Flybe slots that they have paid a lot of money for. The Stansted expansion should come over the next few years.

[Double Hydco]

8 aircraft.

6 319s, a 320 and a 320 Neo

I've been off for a couple of weeks, but when I left, the break down of based aeroplanes was 7 x 319's and 1 x 320. If you mean by "NEO" a sharklet equipped aircraft, then the current 320 is, but it's due to move on soon.

DH

[STN Ramp Rat]

Easyjet have announced their Winter schedule, Copenhagen and Lyon are moving to Luton further reducing the Easyjet presence at Stansted.


Ryanair have cynically stepped in on the Prague route with times that are close to the Easyjet times so a day trip is still not possible, how long until Easyjet pull of that one as well. They have now announced Cologne from the Winter so it is possible German Wings pull off the route, talking all the connections with them.


It looks like Ryanair are trying to drive the competition away which is not good for Stansted

[pabely]

If the EZY Prague goes then that will put pressure on the other sectors that airplane does and a further loss of based frame might occur. Plenty of other places to put the aircraft as EZY are running at almost 100% already and can put it anyway that a better deal and more profits are to be made.

[pamann]

I was wondering if SAS might come back and fill the void left behind. If they can operate to HUY/LBA, I don't see why Stansted couldn't once again be a viable option?

[jdcg]

28 flights per week to CGN! That should put the wind up their competitors. But seems like FR have dropped Dortmund, so obviously they can't always beat the competition (i.e. EZY from LTN)

[davidjohnson6]

HUY-CPH has not exactly been a huge success so far - seems dependent on a very small corporate client base with relatively low appeal to the wider business and leisure community. Any business (not just airlines) will prefer a diverse customer base - all eggs in 1 basket etc...

Ryanair's STN-DTM is (or was) I think a 1x daily at lunchtime, while Easyjet offers a morning and evening flight on Mon-Fri. Dortmund and the surrounding area is not Germany's tourist hotspot, so which carrier do you think picks up all the business passengers ?

[virginblue]

That per Ryanair logic is "just" two daily flights.

The immediate effect it seems to have is that CGN has lost the new SEN route after just six days and 4U cut back its CGN route a while back for winter 14/15. Frequency-wise, net gain for CGN thus is 0: Two additional flights by Ryanair, one less flight by BE and 4U.

[FRatSTN]

I thought FR had axed DTM as well from the start of the winter season as it went off sale for a few days. Back now with just one daily flight, departs about 13:00. As for EZY their STN network now is simply just crap. I would say FR is the problem but the fact that CPH and LYS are being moved to LTN when they are not served by FR is strange. Especially now PRG is served by FR who are also going daily to RAK in the winter, it just doesn't add up. I can't see any reason why their yields, especially on routes without FR, would be so much weaker at STN than the other LON airports anyway!? It's simply an error of judgement on their part because they clearly don't have the same level of commitment to STN which is a shame :(

[LTNman]

So that Easyjet agreement with MAG was not a commitment then? Wonder why MAG made such a big fuss?

[racedo]

Wonder why MAG made such a big fuss?

Have you ever met a PR person ?

[Chopper69]

The problem for EZY at STN is that it dilutes traffic from LGW/LTN. I don't know how iron clad the agreement with MAG is, but it is looking increasingly likely that it is just a bargaining chip. In a previous life an Airline that I worked for was approached by LTN and given a fantastic deal just to provide completion to EZY, who at the time has very poor relations with the Airport Authority, but when the maths were done the catchment area/market was very similar. If EZY do stay at STN it will be in very different markets that are offered by LGW/LTN and of course, you DO have to factor in RYR.

[toledoashley]

The only markets I can see working for easyJet at Stansted are the Turkish and Egyptian routes, of the sort that Ryanair cant compete on.

[compton3bravo]

If you hadn´t noticed toledoashley easy have pulled out of Istanbul completely while Pegasus provide an excellent service to Stansted plus Atlasjet are starting services to Luton shortly so I cannot see your logic.

[toledoashley]

I'm thinking more of the leisure routes: Dalaman, Bodrum and Antalya + Sharm (Egypt dependant).

[FRatSTN]

Few changes from Thomson for Summer 2015:

Some changes to flight times here and there on certain routes.

Agadir seems to have been dropped and replaced with another Palma.

Extra Tunisia on Sundays served by a W pattern from Luton (and due to the time STN's two a/c are in, could get a short period where 3 of TOM's own a/c are in STN at once!).

Also seems to be 3 flights on Wednesday evenings... 18:50 to RHO, 19:55 to NBE (same as this year) plus 19:55 to IBZ. Can't tell as of yet but I would assume this is the TCX flight which is also used by TOM moved from the current more sociable time of 07:25. Only alternatives would be that this changes at a later date or a third a/c is coming.

[FRatSTN]

Looks as if MAG has finally got long-haul back in to Stansted with Thomas Cook appearing to be operating a long-haul network in 2015.

New routes from Stansted are:

Cancun, Mexico - Sat
Las Vegas, USA - Mon
Orlando Intl, USA - Fri, Sun

Hopefully they will actually operate in 14 and a half months from now!

[adfly]

The operating period is very short, just 2 months or so! It is fair to say that they are testing the water for now. However I do wonder if in the future TCX would consider using STN to operate the 'trunk' long haul routes which have lots of competition from LGW (MCO, CUN, LAS being prime examples) and operating the less busy primarily Caribbean routes from LGW with its larger catchment, assuming they want to have any long haul presence at all there.

[sxflyer]

adfly, my thoughts exactly. I also wonder if they might be a dark horse to open up STN-JFK as they have done at MAN, though I have to admit I don't follow TCX that closely so have no idea what the situation is with their fleet present or future and whether they have the means for any such expansion

One thing is for sure though, with 2 based aircraft AND short term long haul they seem to have taken a liking to STN under MAG

[southside bobby]

Yes-Thomas Cook longhaul news as posted by FRatSTN now on the Stansted Airport website...Well done MAG...Perhaps this is testing the waters but a good indicator nonetheless of the new owners intent & another example of them being far more positive & pro active than the previous incumbents.They obviously also have a good working relationship with Thomas Cook so who knows for the future.MAG have always said the benefit of the £80M Terminal Transformation Project will only really start to become apparent from the end of that in 2015....Regards The southside...

[pamann]

The longhaul routes from Stansted are great news and well overdue.

Any changes to their shorthaul Summer '15 programme?

[daz211]

Well ill be booking LAS, I hate LHR and LGW
but that is just because of the M25.
Fingers crossed the news of these routes spread long overdue.

Well done MAG and thank you TCX .:ok:

[compton3bravo]

Nobody in their right mind would go to Florida in July and August. Too hot and humid, huricane season etc. but of course we all know why some Brits do go because its CHEAP compared to other mor attractive times of the year, i.e. November to March.

[ATNotts]

compton3bravo

Nobody in their right mind would go to Florida in July and August. Too hot and humid, huricane season etc

Absolutely right - the tour operators make a killing, as July and August is low season in Florida, so the hotel room as going for a song, and at the same time the operators can charge a premium for the school holidays.

A win-win for the operators without a doubt.

The British obsession with taking the children to Disney seems to overtake any reasoned thinking as regards the suitability of such a humid, and climatically inclement region for young children to enjoy a holiday.

[rutankrd]

Even worse they are playing on general ignorance of the UK populous whom are blissfully unaware of the regional and seasonal weather conditions !

For the same reason I expect the TCX Manchester- Miami operations to perform better in the UK summer than in the local high season thats after Christmas through to March.

I think that American when they tried the route half a dozen years back simply didn't get the UK market at the time !

[southside bobby]

Stansted definitely on the UP again.....in a single hour between 7-8AM one morning last week 50 movements were achieved...:ok: Good work ATC..... Regards The southside....

[LTNman]

If you stripped out Ryanair would it be zero?

[adfly]

Thanks for enlightening me. Hopefully they will build this up to a year round operation in time!

[nt639]

Does it matter LTNMAN trolling again I see

[pamann]

I knew this was coming. Some individuals on here are somewhat predictable in their behaviour.

Now if the long haul had gone to a nearby airfield that some believe to be the centre of the universe, some folks on here would be all 'jazz hands' at this point.

Maybe it's time some of you 'build a bridge and get over yourselves' rather than hanging about the Stansted and Southend threads pouncing on any opportunity like some rabid dog in a disco.

Well done to MAG and STN and Thomas Cook for offering more diverse choice for those in the south east. :ok:

[whitelighter]

If you stripped out Ryanair would it be zero?

Greatly reduced but nowhere near zero.

Bit like Luton losing Easyjet

Youd be left with GermanWings, Airberlin, Pegasus, Loganair, Freebirdair, Easyjet, Thomson, ThomasCook not to mention quite a few bus jets and BBJ/Exec Airbus type stuff.

[Boeing737-8]

If LTN lose Easyjet it would not be the end of the world. Wizz would be straight in there but Easyjet have sign a new deal with LTN so that won't be happening any time soon

[whitelighter]

Who suggested Luton were going to lose EZY?

Certainly not me. I was merely saying stripping RYR figures out of Stansted is like taking the EZY movements out of LTN. Pointless but some seem to bang on about it.

About the same chance of that happening as STN losing RYR

[compton3bravo]

Oh come on chaps, can we get back to serious discussions please.

[GrahamK]

From 2nd June, the current Air Berlin DUS-STN service reverts to Etihad Regional using Saab 2000s. From the end of October, ATR72s will be used

[southside bobby]

So....who would have imagined it earlier in 2014.......(yes I know it`s only by default, detractors....BUT 2 of the "big3" Middle East LIVERIES will be gracing the tarmac @ STN on regular service from the middle of the year...Qatar (Cargo) already & from early next month Etihad (Regional).....

[wowzz]

Having recently travelled through STN for the first time for ages, it seems to me that it has rapidly gone down-hill. More flights means more pax, but MAG seems intent on putting in more retail outlets and less and less seats for the pax. When pax are reduced to sitting on the floor because there are no seats available in the departure area as I recently witnessed, further expansion seems crazy.
Perhaps advising the departure gate of flights slightly earlier would help, as the departure gate area always seems under occupied compared to the main departure 'holding' area.

[insuindi]

@wowzz
less seating and keeping pax longer in retail area = more retail bucks to be made. It's not about customer friendliness I fear.

[insuindi]

@southside_bobby I certainly wouldn't have had any money on Etihad rocking up in a Saab2000....

[Flightmech]

Border Control at STN is still a joke regarding time it takes to get to baggage claim.

[davidjohnson6]

Ryanair at Stansted used to mark all flights as 'Final Call' on monitors post security as soon as the boarding process opened. Presumably this encouraged passengers in the shops to immediately stop shopping and run to the gate (often to see a long queue waiting to board), denying retailers potential sales. Now Ryanair flights initially show as 'Boarding' for a while. Has someone at MAG retail put pressure on Ryanair or handling agent to change their practice in return for lower price airport charges, or is this just a part of the new friendly / cuddly Ryanair image ?

[mikkie4]

RYANAIR will never have a friendly/cuddly image not while MOL is in charge

[Angels-One-Five]

Good news on the PAX front - reports today that EGSS is up 11% in April compared to a year ago. Still below the peak but headed in the right direction.

1.72m PAX through the terminal in April - back to over 18m in the past 12 months.

Stansted Airport traffic increases - Cambridge Network (http://www.cambridgenetwork.co.uk/news/stansted-airport-traffic-increases/)

[Heathrow Harry]

the "always boarding " sign is an Irish thing I think - I can remember Aer Lingus doing it in the 80's out of Dublin and LHR

it wasn't the duty free they were trying to empty but the bar TBH

[j636]

the "always boarding " sign is an Irish thing I think - I can remember Aer Lingus doing it in the 80's out of Dublin and LHR

it wasn't the duty free they were trying to empty but the bar TBH

All Spanish airports do it, it says boarding for a minute or two and goes to final call even when its 30 minutes before departure.

[rocket_dog]

Will Menzies be losing another contract to Swissport though??

[racedo]

Border Control at STN is still a joke regarding time it takes to get to baggage claim.

Picked up a mate one night who flew in from Germany, it took him longer to get through BC than the flight took. It was late one Sunday and when he asked at BC was there something unusual on that it was so crowded and got told its always this way on a Sunday night and have the desks are unmanned.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Rocket_dog

What makes you say that ?

[rocket_dog]

I believe Darwin Airlines already falls under SWP.

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Ah in that case then maybe. Depends on the local contracts I guess

[FRatSTN]

Thought some might be interested by these old Stansted route maps from Ryanair, Air Berlin and EasyJet. (It also includes EasyJet from Luton).


By Air (http://brightlingseamotel.co.uk/motel_025.htm)


I'm not sure when this is exactly but I would think probably around 2004 or 2005, how things change (and not necessarily for the better) in ten years!

[LTNman]

Most of those easyjet routes but have been Fly Go routes.

[insuindi]

STN-CPH and STN-LYS finish 02NOV14.

[FRatSTN]

Whilst on the subject again, I'm not sure many people are fully aware of actually how much EasyJet has turned its back on STN. Below is EasyJet's schedules for Mondays in August 2011 v August 2014 to give an idea.


MONDAY (SUMMER 2011)
EZY3167 06:00 Alicante
EZY3043 06:00 Ibiza
EZY3357 06:15 Naples
EZY3111 06:25 Malaga
EZY3303 06:30 Cagliari
EZY3211 06:40 Palma de Mallorca
EZY3001 07:00 Amsterdam
EZY3461 07:00 Copenhagen
EZY3287 07:00 Faro
EZY3473 07:15 Bilbao
EZY255 07:50 Belfast-International
EZY3411 08:05 Munich
EZY233 08:10 Edinburgh
EZY3263 08:25 Madeira
EZY207 08:50 Glasgow-International
EZY3031 10:00 Barcelona
EZY3103 11:25 Nice
EZY235 11:40 Edinburgh
EZY259 11:55 Belfast-International
EZY3003 12:10 Amsterdam
EZY3189 12:25 Lyon-St. Exupery
EZY3361 12:35 Naples
EZY3065 12:45 Prague
EZY3113 12:50 Malaga
EZY3169 13:00 Alicante
EZY3291 13:00 Faro
EZY3085 13:15 Asturias
EZY3245 13:30 Ljubljana
EZY3465 13:55 Copenhagen
EZY215 15:35 Glasgow-International
EZY3315 15:40 Dalaman
EZY3005 16:05 Amsterdam
EZY239 16:50 Edinburgh
EZY3105 16:50 Nice
EZY3363 17:45 Naples
EZY265 18:00 Belfast-International
EZY3033 18:05 Barcelona
EZY3415 18:20 Munich
EZY241 18:25 Edinburgh
EZY217 18:30 Glasgow-International
EZY3467 18:40 Copenhagen
EZY3117 19:05 Malaga
EZY3009 19:20 Amsterdam
EZY3475 19:25 Bilbao
EZY3045 19:40 Ibiza
EZY3173 19:45 Alicante
EZY3215 19:55 Palma de Mallorca
EZY267 20:55 Belfast-International
EZY219 20:55 Glasgow-International
EZY3049 21:45 Ibiza
EZY245 21:50 Edinburgh


MONDAY (SUMMER 2014)
EZY3111 06:05 Malaga
EZY3249 06:10 Naples
EZY3213 06:30 Palma de Mallorca
EZY3001 07:00 Amsterdam
EZY3091 07:00 Copenhagen
EZY3155 07:00 Dalaman
EZY3203 07:10 Cagliari
EZY3245 07:20 Ljubljana
EZY255 07:50 Belfast-International
EZY207 08:10 Glasgow-International
EZY231 08:25 Edinburgh
EZY3225 10:10 Bilbao
EZY3083 11:30 Asturias
EZY233 11:50 Edinburgh
EZY215 12:45 Glasgow-International
EZY3103 13:05 Nice
EZY259 13:15 Belfast-International
EZY3071 13:15 Munich
EZY3191 14:00 Lyon
EZY3095 15:15 Copenhagen
EZY237 16:10 Edinburgh
EZY3005 16:30 Amsterdam
EZY3055 16:45 Marrakech
EZY3251 16:55 Naples
EZY3067 18:20 Prague
EZY3117 18:20 Malaga
EZY3227 18:30 Bilbao
EZY3009 19:05 Amsterdam
EZY3215 19:35 Palma de Mallorca
EZY263 19:45 Belfast-International
EZY219 21:30 Glasgow-International
EZY241 21:40 Edinburgh
EZY3047 21:40 Ibiza


Just to add to this, on a Monday in February 2012 there were 39 departures, on the same day in February 2015 there will only be 22.


Not only is the level of decline really quite shocking (and only set to get worse still), but the general quality of the whole network has gone drastically downhill.


Lots of routes had multiple daily frequencies with morning, midday and evening options which suits both business and leisure pax. Of those routes that they do still choose to operate the frequencies and timings are rubbish. For example:
- AGP and PMI now only fly ridiculously early morning or ridiculously late at night (not very sociable for a family holiday). They don't even serve ALC and FAO anymore!
- MUC used to fly in the morning and evening, now is just 1 afternoon flight (so crap for business pax)
- CPH while they still operate it is a morning and afternoon (again, pretty unfriendly for business pax).
- High frequencies on the domestic routes to EDI and GLA have also dwindled to a mere 2 or 3 daily flights a lot of the time (perhaps just getting the train would be a better option).


I've never seen anything like this happen, especially in just 3 years. To have built such a dynamic and high quality route network from a major UK airport that suits a vast range of markets to completely tear it apart at a time when STN is growing and improving and the economy overall is on the up. Such a shocking way to do business.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Such a shocking way to do business? Well, that all depends. I can certainly understand why a dramatic reduction in EZY's commitment to STN is profoundly disappointing to those who champion the airport. Believe me, I empathise. But that does not translate to poor business strategy from the point of view of a profit-orientated company. They have to prioritise the 'big picture' over local expediency. Loyalty to a locality is strictly the remit of mayors and councillors, not experienced corporate decision-makers.

EasyJet has in recent seasons seized the opportunity to expand rapidly at a competing airport serving the same conurbation as STN. As events abruptly freed up precious blocks of scarce slots on LGW's heavily-subscribed single runway, EasyJet was the carrier which very smartly took advantage. Each time slots came available, EasyJet was proactive in adding them to its portfolio. As a result of this policy, EasyJet has now secured a predominant position in short-haul at an airport which has become by far their most strategically-important base. Their fleet at LGW has grown at a phenomenal rate; the recent acquisition of former FlyBe slots facilitates another leap in capacity this year. What are they up to now … is it 68 based units at LGW? Something like that, anyway. And EasyJet is making good money. I haven't studied the accounts in any detail, but could LGW perhaps represent a higher-yield profit opportunity than STN? An airport where they are not head-to-head with Ryanair to such a significant extent?

Unfortunately, EasyJet is even more constrained than most other carriers in allocating additional airframes at short notice, as they are suffering the hangover from the dispute with Stelios concerning the rate of fleet expansion. So the airframes to support the LGW opportunity had to be sourced from other bases in a hurry. STN has been one of the losers as a result of this strategy, but not the only one. Other EasyJet bases have also seen cuts or slower-than-anticipated expansion to accommodate the LGW invasion. But of course STN, serving the same major city, is more in the crosshairs than most. I know we PPRuNers can argue passionately that STN and LGW catchment areas are different … that is true … but there is very considerable overlap, and EasyJet has determined that LGW is the airport which will maximise their bottom line in the long term. Placing supremely capital-intensive scarce resources (aircraft assets) at your most important profit centre isn't "a shocking way to do business". It is the only LOGICAL way to do business.

Note that I do not present this case out of any bias towards LGW. My local airport is MAN. EasyJet's fleet there is stubbornly frozen at eight based units … I would dearly love to see double that. But I can completely understand why it just can't be so (yet). LGW is an opportunity that EasyJet as a profit-driven business must seize. I empathise with the frustration of STN cheerleaders on this issue, but I cannot for one moment agree that EZY's strategic decision to colonise LGW represents "a shocking way to do business".

[Skipness One Echo]

I've never seen anything like this happen, especially in just 3 years. To have built such a dynamic and high quality route network from a major UK airport that suits a vast range of markets to completely tear it apart at a time when STN is growing and improving and the economy overall is on the up. Such a shocking way to do business.
They've refocussed on business travel and whilst not abandoning loco land, they're aiming higher with a better quality product. It seems, again, that Stansted struggles to hang onto business on any measure beyond price. Aircraft are the most mobile of assets and the laser like focus on Gatwick coupled with the launch of Southend is all about improving yields and profitability. As Shed says, Gatwick is now an Orange fortress in the same way it was a BA hub, excpet with more based units. Look at the branding, the only loco thing about the brand now is the aircraft livery which is actually at odds with every other piece of branding and marketing you'll see in terms of font and positioning.

[Captain_Caveman]

FR@STN

As a shareholder in EZY I'm glad that the company are looking at where they can get the best return on investment. The top brass have access to all the stats needed to make these decisions and we do not. It's not nice for the crew who may need to relocate as a base shrinks or for those who champion their local airport but at the end of the day, if the yield or airport deal is better elsewhere then I expect the bosses to look after my investment and do what's best for the company.

EZY have a history of chopping routes that may have fantastic load factors but a poor yield . The annual profits continue to rise each year so the strategy that is being followed is working.

[FRatSTN]

The thing that is "such a shocking way to do business" is EZY continued inability to be able to expand at one location, whether it be LGW, LTN or SEN without it be at the expense of another.


Please remember that SEN has bought NO GROWTH to the London or even the Essex areas at all. Literally every single passenger that travels through SEN with EZY, and then some, used to travel through STN in statistical terms. If you look at the S11 schedule I posted earlier, you can see at least 12 aircraft (though if I remember correctly it was actually 13) and 51 departures from STN. Compare that to 8 aircraft and 33 departures this summer (a reduction of 4/5 aircraft and 18 departures). That reduction is significantly larger than the level of traffic EZY have at SEN.


Were they completely incapable of opening a small base at SEN without it having too much of an impact on STN? Probably not, but the management of the company decided to move substantial capacity away at the time. SEN is no more than a case of EZY relocating its assets and hasn't created any extra growth, jobs and passengers like they seem to make out, not in the "big picture" anyway!


Let's take FR up in the north-west for example where a similar thing appears to be happening between LPL and MAN. FR has taken aircraft, flights and passengers out of LPL this year in favour of MAN, most likely because they (like EZY) haven't been getting many aircraft deliveries. Last year they grew ops at both airports although MAN took most of the growth. This winter FR will be growing very slightly at both airports and has expressed interest to grow again at LPL from next summer once more aircraft start coming in. There is a commitment there to grow at both airports and I'm confident they will do just that. And when you look at the "big picture" the north-west is a lot bigger in terms of FR traffic now than it was 3 years ago, that's more than can be said in EZY's case down in Essex.


EZY have done and I'm sure will continue to do very well at LGW. It is amazing what they have achieved there along with the prospects of them having the North Terminal to themselves but it is slot constrained and limited as to how much more growth it can take, especially in the peak times where based aircraft need to fly out. Any major growth at LGW in future unless it has a 2nd runway will have to be by night stopping aircraft and crews at non-base airports so they can fly into LGW first thing in the morning when there's more slots and that can be very expensive, particularly for a low-cost airline.


But take a look at a few of the routes EZY have dropped from STN in recent years:
ALC - now up to 3x daily by FR
BCN - now 4x daily by FR
FAO - now up to 3x daily by FR


Go back about five or six years and it was purely EZY on these routes with no FR. EZY have been undoubtedly weak to have in that time given FR a monopoly on these routes from STN when they were not too long ago some of their primary routes from one of their primary base airports.


And what happens if we ever see the day where EZY do want to grow again at STN, the airport which it was quick to reach a growth framework with and is the only one in London that already has significant space to grow? Most of the routes they successfully built up at STN are now flown multiple times daily by it's largest rival airline. That means they have probably lost their chances with these routes now and would have to explore new opportunities in new markets that may present further commercial risks that could easily have been avoided under a different strategy.


I don't think it's ever sustainable to remove a lot of your existing capacity because other options arise elsewhere which allow very rapid growth such as that at LGW. Any company should strive to grow in a way where all of its activities can grow alongside each other, not at the expense of each other.

[EssexMan61]

FRatSTN -


Well - I can categorically state that myself and a number of my friends resident in South Essex now use Easyjet FAR more since they started operating from Southend. It is simply so much more convenient and so much more pleasant than the hassle of the alternatives. So certainly - in our own small way we have contributed to growth because we now fly on leisure trips far more often!!


Long may Easyjet continue at Southend!!!!

[davidjohnson6]

FRatSTN - would the long term dispute between Easyjet management and Stelios who owned 40% of the shares over whether or not to order more aircraft perhaps have anything to do with Easyjet's fleet strategy ? Took a long time to resolve whether the company would remain in growth mode or not - because of the lead times between ordering aircraft and delivery, we are probably still seeing the effects of that dispute.

3 or 4 years ago, when Europe's economy was lousy and a euro breakup was being actively considered, it was a brave airline CEO who ordered lots more shorthaul aircraft in Europe, particularly when Airbus / Boeing were able to sell their products in Asia and didn't feel the need for desperate discounting sale prices.

[FRatSTN]

EssexMan61


Well you can't argue, it's fact that SEN hasn't contributed any growth to EZY since they have taken more capacity out of STN than they have added to SEN.


The fact that you as a local resident in Essex flies with them more frequently now they are at SEN actually implies that less individual people are flying with them now, but instead more frequent custom from the same individuals. And that links back to what we have said in the past about how moving traffic from STN to SEN is shrinking their catchment area.




davidjohnson6


But that doesn't explain why EZY are still growing in other markets. It's very unlikely that they would take out the effects of aircraft delivery issues so heavily on one airport. Plus they have even said they expect to grow 20% in size at Luton next year, so far the only new flights this winter at Luton are 2 routes being moved over there from Stansted.

[commit aviation]

FR@STN: Whilst you may consider the capacity moved to SEN brought no growth it may well have brought extra profits if they were offered a better deal. As you often bemoaned at the time, BAA probably charged top whack to airlines using STN. If SEN offered a better deal & EZY can still charge similar fares then that's a bigger piece of the pie going in to their pockets. Which I think they would consider a good deal.


Now MAG have almost certainly offered a better deal but as others have stated, EZY do not (yet) have the airframes to expand their offering at all the bases they would like. LGW slots acquired from Flybe had to be used or lost so it seems both sensible & inevitable they would fill them first.


As to business lost to FR, I think most people these days are loyal only to their wallets not a specific airline. (Timing and days of operation may also come into consideration.) If the price is right they will fly Orange again no doubt! What EZY will have to ensure is that if / when they return they manage to either pinch business back or create new business without undermining their existing offerings from SEN or LGW.

[adfly]

EZY might not be carrying as many passengers from SEN as they were before from STN but I'd bet they are probably making more money from them doing so. This is due to the fact that they have a monopoly there, are probably getting a very good deal from stobart and most importantly being able to charge more since SEN is considered to be fairly 'local' and easy for travellers. Flybe have a rather similar position at SOU.

However STN does still have some of EZY's less common routes (OVD, BIO, LJU, CAG) which I personally would have expected to see go before the more obvious BCN, ALC, FAO, and maybe these type of routes will become what the airport focuses on.

I don't doubt at all that EZY is a very well run airline and every decision they make is for a good reason but it does seem strange to publicly go on about expanding at STN and doubling the operation there only to go and cut it further a few months later, this possibly suggests the deal may have just been a bargaining point for LTN.

[Skipness One Echo]

But that doesn't explain why EZY are still growing in other markets.
Well you can't argue, it's fact that SEN hasn't contributed any growth to EZY since they have taken more capacity out of STN than they have added to SEN.
With Stelios being anti growth, any expansion has to go where they got most bang for their buck, that's not STN at the moment. Remember EZY also closed EMA and have hardly made much of a dent in Scotland, unlike Ryanair which has gone Hell for leather for growth and cutting costs but as the two businesses mature, arguably EZY is in a better place.
The thing that is "such a shocking way to do business" is EZY continued inability to be able to expand at one location, whether it be LGW, LTN or SEN without it be at the expense of another.
It's only "shocking" when you as an outsider only have a partial picture and certainly have not seen the revenue numbers from EZY. All the London airports compete with one another to a certain extent, LTN/STN especially so, it would indeed be more "shocking" if they offered the same routes from each airport.

[LTNman]

Easyjet only came to Stansted proper when they killed off Go by taking them over. Not sure that they have ever had a love affair with Stansted with Luton being so close.

It says a lot about their Stansted thinking when they moved part of their Stansted fleet to Southend-on Sea with its reduced catchment areas that is in two directions only. Add to that the fact that Southend-on-Sea can only be used by Easyjet 18 hours a day, has no public transport early morning and late at night and their aircraft get diverted at the first sign of fog.

Stansted is piggy-in-the middle with Luton on one side and Southend-on-Sea on the other but the management at Stansted did make a song and dance when Easyjet was meant to have made a commitment to expand their Stansted operation. Maybe that commitment is still there but if it is it might well be Southend that suffers long term unless they can sort out their issues most of which are out of their control.

[Skipness One Echo]

Does anyon have the Cargolux days and times out of STN please? It's not listed on the Cargolux or Cargolux Italia websites! Thanks.

[Chopper69]

"killed off GO" is a fair assessment, ironically the business model that EZY are embarked upon at the moment almost exactly mirrors GO's and I know for a fact that CmC has met with Barbara. As I've said before STN's problem is that it dilutes traffic from LGW/LTN, very similar catchment areas. SEN? well history will work out if that decision was right, although as has been expressed previously, it is a bit of a niche market that could be exploited. I think that I've mentioned before that GO were approached by LTN to put in a pretty sizeable operation into LTN, but with an EMA base, the maths just didn't work, traffic dilution again.

[FRatSTN]

Today in the second RC flight into London Stansted this season and today and next Monday are operated by an A319 rather than the usual Avroliner.


But main reason for posting was that on 20th March next year as some people are probably aware, there will be a total solar eclipse in the Faroe Islands. Closest one to the UK I believe until we finally get one in 2090! Does anybody know if RC will schedule some direct flights from the UK around this date especially for it?

[TOWTEAMBASE]

Was also an RAF voyager pay a visit to STN today for a few days, sitting remote with half of Essex police baby sitting it

[pamann]

CY sells last Heathrow slot | Cyprus Mail (http://cyprus-mail.com/2014/06/16/cy-flogs-last-heathrow-slot/)

So it appears that CY are moving their London operation to Stansted having sold their Heathrow slots. September 14th is the start date. Times/frequency/equipment TBA :ok:

[whitelighter]

I think that was the obvious choice for Cyprus.

EGKK is virtually full so not much chance if getting in there.

It was always going to be GW or SS and I image MaG have been aggressive on pricing plus there is more flexibility in operation at the bigger airport.

The fact that the airline has sold Heathrow slots shows how poor a state they are in so you have to wonder if they will last long enough to make the SS operation work

[Phileas Fogg]

During a period when I worked at STN I flew STN/LCA/STN for a three week break with Cyprus Airways, the one and only time I have flown with them, it was then an A310 operation, and a very pleasant experience it was, airport, airline and wide bodied operation.

[SealinkBF]

easyJet moving out of fortress Ryanair doesn't seem so odd to me.

[sxflyer]

I'm not convinced of the longevity of this.

At one time not so long ago they flew into STN up to 5/6 weekly and used an A330 on weekends in the summer. On top of that were at least 2 daily to LHR again with 330s used, plus various weekly flights to LGW/STN/LTN mainly with their subsidiary Eurocypria but also with 'mainline'. They quit STN after around 15 years of service, the charters had dwindled and eventually Eurocypria went, they sold LHR slots, half-heartedly returned to STN for a year or so, now are leaving LHR altogether.

It's an airline in deep trouble, the market has been taken by locos. They will either go bust or further retreat and downsize the fleet

[NickBarnes]

One problem is despite mounting loses the government/politicians of Cyprus don't want it to go as they believe their should be a national carrier, despite the high cost to the tax payer, so I can only assume downsizing would be their option but it has been downsized so much recently, their wouldn't be much left :confused:

[Phileas Fogg]

It's an airline in deep trouble, the market has been taken by locos

Cyprus Airways operate the same routes as a number of other carriers that include British Airways, Lufthansa and Aeroflot.

NEVER have I heard British Airways, Lufthansa and Aeroflot, to name but three, being referred to as "locos"!

[FRatSTN]

Nonetheless I would still say this is very good news for Stansted. They now have 17 passenger airlines at one time or another this year whether it be scheduled or charter. Is still very low for an airport of its size but better than the 11 or 12 when BAA sold to MAG.


It appears based on what CY are saying that it will also be quite a regular running route as opposed to just 2 flights a week. If they go bust from Stansted's point of view then yes it's a disappointment, otherwise this is a further step in the right direction.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Heads up! If these antagonistic posts keep appearing I will CLOSE this thread and there will not be another. From my mail box people are getting fed up with it - and so am I!


It all comes down to childish rants and childish comments. That is NOT the way of PPRuNe or its forums.


If I have to close this one and do decide to open another there are three or four of you that will not be welcome on it and will be barred.


Its up to you. Either you engage in intelligent debate from this point on or you leave us - one way or another.

[Phileas Fogg]

I was merely making the point that I'd flown the route and utilised the product and a damn fine product it was, alas I note that Cyprus Airways has since gone narrow body which does take the shine of it somewhat.

I would say that CY are on a par with BA and LH but I've flown with all three and I'd say that CY are better than BA and LH.

I also flew STN/ODS/STN (via BUD) with MALEV Hungarian, another thoroughly enjoyable product (particularly on the F70's) whilst avoiding the nightmare that some might call Heathrow, and I wouldn't like to see another quality product go the same way as MALEV Hungarian went.

I'm not interested in squabbles between London, indeed Essex, airports, I've worked at STN twice during my career and I can't stand the place, but talking as a passenger of both MALEV Hungarian and Cyprus Airways, from/to STN, all three provided the service for me.

[insuindi]

4U are starting DUS-STN 12/7 eff 22AUG.

A push to try and get rid of Etihad Regional.

[FRatSTN]

Really great news for STN.


CY flights are now on sale:


Effective 14/09/14:


CY326 dep. LCA 08:45, Arr. STN 11:45
CY327 dep. STN 12:45, Arr. LCA 19:15


Daily.

[sxflyer]

DUS and CGN are very close together though, there is the risk of course that 4U will just leave CGN to FR and then the airport isn't really any better off.

[whitelighter]

Forgive my ignorance.

Who are 4U?

[STN Ramp Rat]

typing 4U + airline into Google reveals that it is Germanwings :ok:

[whitelighter]

So why not just say 'Germanwings'

[ericlday]

Instead of looking out of the window start looking at your computer,

[insuindi]

My post 2726 is also relatively enlightening on this matter... Title: Germanwings.

[VickersVicount]

I thought the Google police had been outlawed ?

[22/04]

Sorry I meant to post here earlier.

If Ryanair serve the likes of ALC etc. why would Easy want to serve them? Easy have service from STN to places Ryanair haven't chosen to go and to a few they do. RYR have a lower cost model than Easy (Eastern European CC, self employed pilots) so they simply can't compete.

Nice to see 4U at STN on business oriented routes and growth overall , but for common leisure routes it is London (Ryanair) airport I am afraid- don't complain though FR@STN you are better connected to Europe I think than any other London Airport.

[Tagron]

As a matter of record, according to the dropdown menu of the booking engine on their website, Ryanair serve 130 destinations from STN.

[pamann]

It looks as though the Germanwings flights to DUS are to be operated by Eurowings with their CRJ's twice daily weekdays, with one flight each way Sat/Sun.

[FRatSTN]

It looks as though the Germanwings flights to DUS are to be operated by Eurowings with their CRJ's twice daily weekdays, with one flight each way Sat/Sun.


Only until the end of the Summer schedules on 25OCT. From then on it will be an A319 operated by 4U.

[vctenderness]

Arrived at STNSTED today from Izmir on Pegasus flight on time. On disembarkation walked down to transit station to find a sea of people from the transit right back into the gangway.

This area filled up even more and it then became clear there was a problem with the transit system. Only running one carriage at a time. No staff around and as we were crushed ever closer together it seemed pretty dangerous. About 45 minutes later we were crushed into a transit the lovely Russian visitors behind pushing us forward people swearing and getting irate.

On arrival at Border control it was near impossible to get out of train as que for passport control backed right up. All desks not manned and several auto booths out of action.

Finally got through about 1 hour 45 mins after landing. Still bags will be waiting NO! Still had wait for bags to arrive.

Left terminal and went to Long Stay car park bus stop. Fifteen minutes later man in Hi-Viz jacket strolls over 'are you waiting for Long Stay bus?' Because it won't be stopping here as the barrier is broken. Walk over there and it will pick you up.
Bus arrives and stops much further along road we,then drag cases towards it and board. At entrance to car park driver asks for barrier to be lifted...and asks for barrier to be lifted....and makes a joke to customers as we still wait for barrier operator to finish his tea or whatever.

And the summer season has not yet started!:ugh:

[Teaboy24]

Sounds like my experience last week, add another 20 minutes waiting half on stand for "guidance system" to work !!

Think the transit system is deliberately slowed down to avoid a pile-up in the Immigration Hall. Same as when they hold you downstairs on the Ryanair pier.

Just creates pile-up elsewhere.

[Tranceaddict]

Nothing wrong with the guidance system, suspect you were waiting for someone to switch it on, that's the ground handlers job, not the airports, I can take a guess you were flying with FR?

[Teaboy24]

You are correct first time !!

[iggie]

What is meant by '12/7 eff 22AUG' in post #2725?

[pwalhx]

12 flights over a 7 day period i.e. twice daily on 5 days and 1 daily on 2, starts 22nd August

[iggie]

Thank you pwalhx.

[FRatSTN]

New routes to Edinburgh and Glasgow Intl both 3x daily.

[Falcon666]

Another reason for EZY to transfer flights?
More dominance of one airline at STN-great!!:ugh::ugh:

[wallp]

Did Ryanair ever serve Prestwick from Stansted?

An interesting development which doesn't bode well for easyJets flights to big cities. I wouldn't be surprised to see them increase frequencies from Luton and exit these altogether from Stansted as there's not room for both carriers or is there?

[FRatSTN]

I think there is room for both FR and EZY on the STN to EDI and GLA routes. Back in the day EZY operated these routes 5 or 6 times a day and that was alongside their LGW and LTN services.


However whether EZY do pull out of those routes remains to be seen. My gut feeling is that despite everything they will do in due course since that's the impression they have given on their STN presence over the last few years.


I do honestly think that FR is taking advantage of EZY cutting back more so than EZY cutting back because of FR. I think somewhere along the line FR will start CPH and potentially LYS too.

[Flightmech]

Did Ryanair ever serve Prestwick from Stansted?


Ryanair used to serve PIK up to 4 (?) times a day in days gone by. Used to do it regularly in the B732 days.

[EI-BUD]

once upon a time STN PIK was x8 daily on 73S in each direction !

[FRatSTN]

I think at their very peak it was run up to 10x a day but not sure which a/c types they were using then.

[LTNman]

Thought it was a 737-200

[Buster the Bear]

Stansted-Prestwick was almost an hourly service using B737-200

[whitelighter]

I flew STN-PIK as recently as 2008 so i guess that would have been B738s

[FRatSTN]

Nice to see yet again that STN has been left out in EZY's new route announcements.

[Falcon666]

FRatSTN
Did you really expect EZY to add destinations for W14/15 after transferring two routes to LTN earlier.
Unfortunately it appears at the moment that STN is lower down the pecking order, bit like FR at luton where there hasn't been a sniff of a new route for over 18 months ( Think Alghero was the last)
There is obviously a lot going on in the background that we are unaware of but for the moment you will just have to ride it out and see what S15 has to offer.

[WHBM]

Hello from the over-hot STN departure lounge.

While I stand here (there being no seats left), may I ask a question. All the air conditioning units high upon the south-facing glass wall of the terminal (that's the side facing the sun, for those in the airport management who didn't get GCSE Geography) have large scaffolding towers erected up to them.

Did someone really schedule mainstream maintenance of the air conditioning for July ?

[Tranceaddict]

Did someone really schedule mainstream maintenance of the air conditioning for July ?

I don't think it's maintenance, they were never there in the first place! believe they are all brand new, part of the terminal transformation