PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Airlines, Airports & Routes (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/)
-   -   Jet2 4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/466290-jet2-4-a.html)

DjerbaDevil 20th May 2015 09:57

The A321neoLR (Long Range) appears to be able to carry a similar number of passengers and fly a similar maximum range as the B757-200 but with about 25% less fuel consumption. Nevertheless it's doubtful that the useful and versatile lifespan of the A321neoLR will be comparable to the B752.

fa2fi 20th May 2015 10:01

Well the 321 can do 95% of missions with 25% less fuel burn. Can't imagine there's much demand for a 757 load to GIB anyway.

A350Saltire 20th May 2015 10:46

The A321 Neo LR will be a fantastic 757 replacement that's for sure. Doesn't it also have a wider cabin (a big plus in my eyes).

paully 20th May 2015 11:16

fa2fi

You obviously don`t know but Monarch operated, for many years, the 757 on their routes to GIB..They only changed when the A320 came into service and the 757`s went onto charter..Used them year round in fact and often full loads :ok:

fa2fi 20th May 2015 11:19

Wait. Is this the same Gibraltar that Jet2 don't even fly to???

Your GIB example is completely pointless. LS have 757s, they don't fly them to GIB on a regular scheduled basis.

Station_Calling 20th May 2015 11:31

A321 Vs B757
 

The A321neoLR (Long Range) appears to be able to carry a similar number of passengers and fly a similar maximum range as the B757-200
Yep. But with a 15 ton max take off difference the unfortunate pax won't also be able to take their cases with them...

Agree on the fuel burn though.

Back to J2...

paully 20th May 2015 12:45

fa2fi...................If its pointless then its like most of your spotter posts.....it was in reply to a general comparison between two aircraft types.Nothing more.:ugh:

fa2fi 20th May 2015 12:50

Not a spotter mate, I just fly the things.

LiamNCL 20th May 2015 16:16


Originally Posted by Station_Calling (Post 8983198)
Not even close!

Please tell me where these old 757s that fly to the destinations they do for Jet2 are better than a brand new A321 ?

The 757 is pointless for Airlines like Jet2 now , Tenerife / Cyprus / Greece and Spain are all served easily by a A321

BasilFawlty 20th May 2015 16:19

In the financial books, especially in the winter season.

Honiley 20th May 2015 17:29

Basil is spot on! If JP have bought 15 new aircraft with associated leases, fingers crossed they have changed their seasonal nature...

Big employer for it to end in tears....:{

BasilFawlty 20th May 2015 17:43

Buying new aircraft will clash with every form of business they've done over the past 13 years, it wouldn't make sense in any way, I will eat my hat if these rumours are true.

DjerbaDevil 20th May 2015 18:03

Data would indicate that of the 57 airframes in the fleet only 11 are leased. Inevitably these leases would be cheaper than usual as they were for second hand aircraft. The new order of aircraft may well be bought outright by JET2, as previously someone mentioned that a deal with Bank of America to finance the purchase had been negotiated. This would make sense as interest rates are low and it would be an important saving on a regular leasing arrangement. This doesnít solve the low winter usage of aircraft but it does go some way to mitigate the issue.

Station_Calling 20th May 2015 18:56


The 757 is pointless for Airlines like Jet2 now
Nope. The winter trans-atlantics (I admit only 19) couldn't be done without them. Go back a few years, the RAK charters couldn't have been done. Go forward a few years and you couldn't get to Cape Verde or many other destinations....

Lord Spandex Masher 20th May 2015 19:00

The 800s can do the transatlantic stuff and a few of them are already ETOPS equipped.

LiamNCL 20th May 2015 19:19


Originally Posted by Station_Calling (Post 8984012)
Nope. The winter trans-atlantics (I admit only 19) couldn't be done without them. Go back a few years, the RAK charters couldn't have been done. Go forward a few years and you couldn't get to Cape Verde or many other destinations....

But the winter trans atlantic stuff really will never have a future unless Jet2 have a long haul fleet , The newest 757 globally is now over the 10 year mark , All i am saying is the A321 is good replacement for Jet2s old 757s / TCX fly their A321s all the way to Banjul / Sharm and can hit 6 hours in a headwind without a problem

757 = Fantastic aircraft thats served them well but they will have to let it go sooner or later

Jet2_738 20th May 2015 19:33

Jet2 Publicly Announce New Routes from Edinburgh for S16
 
Biggest EVER Expansion for Jet2.com and Jet2holidays | Jet2.com

http://www.jet2.com/uploadedImages/S...e-0f2d0448b930

Today, 1 week after the first news, Jet2 have publicly announced their Biggest EVER expansion programme. The report outlines that only 1 737-800 will be based up there (bringing the total number of aircraft based to 5) - and a busy 738 it will be! The report also outlines that 500,000 seats are on sale for S16, bringing an additional 150,000 passengers through EDI's doors - an increase of 55%. This brings the total available routes Jet2 offer from Edinburgh to 26. It says that over 150 new jobs will be created at the Scottish hub, and that this is the biggest expansion Edinburgh Airport has ever seen since it became a private company.

A Quote taken from EDI's CEO:

"Excitingly we’ll see the introduction of the first service between Edinburgh and Vienna which is a particularly important destination for us to serve. Not only will it offer leisure travellers great choice for city breaks, it opens up further trade and business links between Scotland and this major European hub."

Facelookbovvered 20th May 2015 19:56

New EDI routes
 
Looks very much like Jet2Holidays driving the route selection, nothing wrong with that, but further cements the seasonal nature of Jet2 business going forward which flies in the face of a new leased fleet order.

Jet2 are not in any sense of the word a transatlantic operator, a few dozen mainly Xmas New York flights can not add much to the bottom line, the 757 is a truly excellent aircraft and nothing on the market including the A321 comes close, having said that 90% + of what you might want to do can be done be with the 321/738 and its already been pointed out that the 757 will be phased out at some stage.

The spot light will be on Jet2's reliability this summer, they work crews and aircraft very hard in Summer

gorter 20th May 2015 20:02


The 800s can do the transatlantic stuff
I nearly spat out my dinner reading that. Just because you've got a couple of HF radios doesn't mean you can cross the Atlantic. At least not without stopping in KEF and one of the Eastern Canada airports. Thanks for the evening laugh. :8:8:ugh:

Jet2_738 20th May 2015 20:26


The spot light will be on Jet2's reliability this summer, they work crews and aircraft very hard in Summer
You're spot on! Aircraft and crew are worked very hard in the summer, and not so in the winter. The new summer routes serve to highlight Jet2's seasonal nature - it works for them, they're quite like the Low Cost Charter, the foundations of a LCC, with the structure of a leisure airline. This makes the Airbus order very unlikely for Jet2 - imagine the costs of keeping 15 brand new leased aircraft parked up over the winter period... It's illogical to say the least.

The 757 is unique, as is Jet2's winter breaks to New York. The airline was the first, and still the only Low Cost airline to travel Transatlantic from the North. As much as I understand the 757's will go sooner or later, there's still some life in them yet. If Jet2 were to buy some young 757's, (10-15 year old) they'd get another 15 or so years out of the beautiful bird, until a viable replacement, in the form of a 757MAX (though highly unlikely), were to be manufactured.

Realistically, the most logical replacement (though there will never be a true one) would be the 767;
  • It is still in production
  • It shares a common TR with the 757
  • It can fly a varied range of missons, from seasonal New York, to 'packed to the rafters' bucket and spade flights
  • Is common with the rest of the fleet

As the 757 and 767 were manufactured in unison, it means that transition between the two aircraft would be seamless. It means little retraining for crews and engineers, as opposed to lots of expensive retraining on a new type. As mentioned, the 767 can do the vast majority of what the 757 can do, and more. It would give for greater capacity on the 'bucket and spades', as well as greater flexibility for Jet2 operations. Maybe a 2-3 aircraft order would be suitable to start with. The aircraft, would be very busy in the summer, but not so in the winter. However, because of their wide range of missions, the 767's could be chartered during the winter for many airlines, and in turn, this would cover the costs of being parked up on the ground. If, in the event no new aircraft order is made, maybe a few second hand 767's bought outright would suit the business model of Jet2 a little better.

Traditionally, LCC's do not operate a mixed fleet, mainly due to it costing more than a common fleet does. It then begs the question: Are Jet2 not negotiating a deal with Airbus, in order to drive a better deal with Boeing?...

...Time will tell... :ok:

DjerbaDevil 20th May 2015 21:23

Back in 2009 JET2 were recruiting B767 type rated pilots and since then the rumours of a Long Haul programme with appropriate aircraft have been doing the rounds and nothing has come of it. There would appear to be no plans in the near future to launch a long haul programme nor acquiring aircraft to do it.

The possible acquisition of new aircraft would appear to be a near on certain possibility but they will be for JET2ís present flying programme. As it is common knowledge that the airplane manufacturers offer discounts of around 50% on any sizeable order, it would suggest that JET2 will be buying the aircraft rather than leasing. After all if they can negotiate a 50% discount on the aircraft order, why then would they want to lease the aircraft and give the advantage of the discount to the leasing company in extra profits? Surely it would be much better for JET2 to buy the aircraft outright with a bank loan at a low interest. This would also serve to compensate the quiet winter flying and avoid crippling high leasing costs.

BAladdy 20th May 2015 22:50

Does anyone know if G-CELA and G-CELK are undergoing maintenance?. It's just G-CELA doesn't seem to have operated since the 9th of April and G-CELK has not operated since 19th of April.

Lord Spandex Masher 20th May 2015 23:00

LK is in for a C check. Don't know about LA.

speedrestriction 21st May 2015 07:33

LSM,

I would suggest that what Gorter is referring to i.e. Globespan's record of North Atlantic operations, is a matter of public record. It is not contentious or libellous.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Merseyside | Airline fined over faulty plane

Penworth 21st May 2015 10:08

Anyway, back to Jet2. People keep talking about the seasonal nature of Jet's operation and how it wouldn't suit a leased fleet of aircraft. I understand that Thomson send several 737's to Canada to offset their lack of their flying over the winter. This explains how they manage it, but how do other charter airlines (I'm thinking specifically of Thomas Cook) or other small scheduled low cost airlines who's flights are mainly to holiday destinations (Monarch) cope despite having largely (or indeed entirely) leased fleets?

I don't know if anyone knows how Jet2's fleet usage compares to TC and MON over the winter, but being similar sized airlines with similar short haul routes, I would have thought the seasonal nature of their business would be similar (TC's long haul network notwithstanding).

Jet2 obviously have several strings to their bow, with a decent number of charters over the winter as well as the royal mail contract to keep things ticking over, but this talk of fleet renewal with possibly a fair number of leased aircraft made me wonder, would there be a need for them to tinker with their business model to accommodate a leased fleet?

JB007 21st May 2015 10:48

TUI own or have a controlling share of Sunwings now, the B737's and European pilots to Canada will be extended to all of the group in Europe eventually, I was running into British TCX guys in the Caribbean flying the Condor aircraft all winter, couldn't tell you if that includes offloading airframes too...

These are significantly more 'grown up' and developed UK company's than Jet2 - Monarch...well, just surviving and evolving I guess...and I hope it does!

One thing is for sure, the days of summer only existence and parking aircraft up, is a very 'temporary' thing and will need to change...

GLAinsider 21st May 2015 10:54

I am surprised EXS haven't looked at more Scandinavian charters into destinations like the Canaries in the Winter or possibly a Winter / Summer capacity exchange agreement with a Scandinavian carrier such as Primera Air.

bluepilot 21st May 2015 13:56

Transatlantic
 
As far as I am aware there are no plans to get rid of the 757 fleet any time soon, I believe they are planned in the program for at least another 5 years, probably only the newer frames. I cannot see the 737-800 doing any transatlantic operations in the near future. If anything with the fleet replacement debate the 757s will continue until a replacement is ordered, even when ordered will probably take another 3 + years before deliverys begin.

Jet2_738 21st May 2015 16:26

With more relevance to Jet2, Privilege Style 757-200 EC-ISY performed its first flight of the summer to ACE this morning, after being ferried from MAD to MAN yesterday.

As many have said, the 737-800, as great an aircraft as it is, isn't suitable to haul 189 people to the big apple. The 757 is a perfect fit to Jet2's fleet. Jet2 will keep it for as long as they can - they're maintained to a very high standard, and hence, still have a lot of life in them yet. Aircraft leasing is not something Jet2 are very fond of, given their seasonal nature. Owning the aircraft outright means that losses in the winter, will not be so big. The reality is, a big lease could crush Jet2 in the winter. The best way for Jet2 to continue to grow, is to do as they have been - 3-4 second hand aircraft additions every year, most owned outright.

As I have mentioned, anything smaller than the 757 for transatlantic routes is useless, that includes both the A321 and 738. Irrespective of what you might think, no A321 is going to haul a full load of passengers and their 22kg luggage each, all the way to New York, without stopping mid-route. I would think one or two second hand 767-300ER(WL), (maybe in the region of 8-10 years old) bought outright would be a lot more appropriate for Jet2. They're very flexible, just like their sister, and would fly packed trunk bucket and spades to the likes of TFS, ALC, PMI, DLM etc. during the summer, and offer extra capacity on the seasonal New York flights during the winter. Jet2 have already expressed their interest in bigger capacity aircraft, with the 767 pilot recruitment in 2010, and the fallen through lease of the A330 this year.

LNIDA 21st May 2015 19:17

jet2-738
 
Not sure why anything smaller than a 757 is unsuitable for New York the 757 it's a narrow body after all 3/3 seating so what the difference ? Boeing claim the 737-800MAX will do UK to JFK direct, agreed the current NG isn't suitable, ultimately its all about leg room.

Norwegian certainly plan to do LGW/BHX/MAN/EDI direct to the USA in 2017 with the MAX, it should also be remembered that the current production 738NG are significantly more fuel efficient than early build 800's

After all from a punters point of view whats the difference between Northern Europe to LPA/TFS than LGW/JFK is all about leg room, the worst flight i ever did (as a PAX) was MAN -BJL on a 757 i couldn't walk for 3 hours, it was a joke, the charter spec 757 is one of the worst aircraft ever for leg room. Great aircraft but not in 225+ spec

this from an online forum
Submitted by SeatGuru User on 2015/01/05 for Seat 15B
This is the worst flight I've ever been on (I fly about a dozen times a year). I wish I had taken I ruler with me because I would question whether this plane's seating meets airline regulation standards of a minimum of 28" seat pitch. My leg length is 24" from the back of the seat to knee (I'm 5'11") and I was wedged in. It was claustrophobic, deeply uncomfortable and I'd go as far to say distressing (never had any issues flying before). Never want to fly Thomas Cook again.

Jet2_738 21st May 2015 19:43


the charter spec 757 is one of the worst aircraft ever for leg room.
I myself have fallen victim to a 5-6 hours flight, with appalling leg room, and so I know exactly how you feel. That said, having been on Jet2's 757's before, (with the charter-style seats) and after the slimline recaro seats were rolled out, I can definitely speak of the huge difference in legroom you get with the slimline seats - even for someone 6ft+.


Not sure why anything smaller than a 757 is unsuitable for New York
What I meant was anything smaller than a 757 would be unsuitable for Jet2, simply because of how increasingly popular the seasonal flights are. By reducing the capacity available, Jet2 wouldn't be able to sell as many seats, and might have to put on extra sectors. I understand how Norwegian plan to do USA with the 737MAX, but I beleive that NAX's business model is a little less seasonal than Jet2's, and from what I understand, the flights will be more frequent than just seasonal. If Jet2 were to have more frequent flights to the USA, I do think that the 737MAX would be a viable option, but just don't quite think the NG is up to it, as you said :ok:

LNIDA 21st May 2015 20:56

Most of my Jet2 flights have been on the 733 and leg room hasn't been a problem, the problem with 4+ flights is you need more personal space, i have not yet flown on a Jet2 757 so can't comment.

You can't build a transatlantic program on adhoc seasonal charter flights at Jet2 current frequency around xmas charters, it works only because its low season and aircraft and crews are available, operating multi weekly frequencies require reliable fuel efficient aircraft, a tech problem down line will wipe out a weeks worth of profit

Whilst some operators can use USA/Canada flying to cover winter low season, you need modern kit to do it, unless and until Jet2 think outside the UK box they are stuck with seasonal flying, next year 2016/2017 will be good for 737 rated pilots, Norwegian, Ryanair will need hundreds of crews and will be offering UK bases + maybe Monarch 737's order might happen, i expect my income to increase by at least 20% in 2016 off the back of training and basic increases after few flat years

SWBKCB 22nd May 2015 05:43

Not seen this mentioned??

Jet2.com and Jet2holidays Summer 2016 Scorcher | Jet2.com


LARGER AIRCRAFT at East Midlands, Leeds and Manchester Airports meaning THOUSANDS more opportunities to jet away to popular hotspots including Alicante, Lanzarote, Larnaca, Malaga and Reus.
What does this relate to?

LNIDA 22nd May 2015 05:48

SWBKCB
 
The way i read it is marketing spin for using an 800 instead of a 300

SWBKCB 22nd May 2015 06:02


marketing spin
is the 800 not actually bigger than a 300, then?? :eek:

galwaypilot 22nd May 2015 07:45

Jet2 4
 
Yea it is...

Jet2_738 22nd May 2015 18:57

Fleet Addition - G-JZHE
 
Rumours seem to suggest that Jet2 are to acquire an extra aircraft in the near future.

PK-GER, Boeing 737-800WL, currently in the hands of Garuda Indonesia, is due to be wfu in August 2015. The aircraft is currently 14.3 years old, which would make it the 3rd youngest in the Jet2 fleet. Rumour has it that Jet2 are to acquire the aircraft after its time at Garuda Indonesia, to become G-JZHE.

However, it would surprise me if this was the first 738 from GIA. The company has already placed an order for 50 737 MAX 8's, the first due in 2017, to replace the older 737-800's.

GIA will be looking to be rid of 12 737-800's in total, their age ranging between 10-14.5 years old. This is a potential gold mine for Jet2 - mid-aged 738's, all fitted with winglets, and because GIA want to sell them asap before the newbies arrive, it means that Jet2 might be able to drive a bit of a bargain... :ok:

LNIDA 22nd May 2015 20:17

SWBKCB
 
Nope its not bigger than a 733 its longer, from a customer point of view nothing changes apart from a longer queue to check in or to collect your luggage, bigger aircraft 'statement' implies err well a bigger aircraft.

Its worth remembering that these NG being acquired by Jet2 are at least 10% more fuel hungry than the latest build NG's with PIP

I would love to see Jet2 place a new aircraft order Boeing or Airbus but i remain unconvinced that whilst you can take Channex out of freight, they have yet to take the freight mentality out of Channex

2016 will be Jet2 most challenging year yet, ZB have lowered their cost base, Ryanair have improved their product offering and Norwegian plan a major push on the UK market outside of LGW in the Midlands & Edinburgh

DjerbaDevil 22nd May 2015 23:49


GIA will be looking to be rid of 12 737-800's in total, their age ranging between 10-14.5 years old. This is a potential gold mine for Jet2 - mid-aged 738's, all fitted with winglets, and because GIA want to sell them asap before the newbies arrive, it means that Jet2 might be able to drive a bit of a bargain...
Sounds good except the 12 B738s are not owned by Garuda as they are leased, so JET2 would need to drive a bargain with the lessor.....and leasing aircraft goes against the present JET2 business model.

HOODED 23rd May 2015 08:33


Originally Posted by DjerbaDevil (Post 8986553)
Sounds good except the 12 B738s are not owned by Garuda as they are leased, so JET2 would need to drive a bargain with the lessor.....and leasing aircraft goes against the present JET2 business model.

Having had a decent length lease the lessor may be willing to sell the aircraft to Jet 2 at a reasonable price. It will of course depend on how many interested parties the are for the ac. Given there are a lot of MAX and NEOs on order there will be a lot of NGs around on the second hand market. They should be able to pick up a few at a decent price.


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:00.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.