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-   -   Jet2 4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/466290-jet2-4-a.html)

Ivan aromer 25th Apr 2015 20:54

Galwat
 
Mmmmm Not sure that's progress, however TWE gone is a great step in the right direction. About time too IMO.

B16a 26th Apr 2015 19:49

Slightly off topic was curios if anyone knows how much longer jet 2 might keep G-CELH it appears to be almost 29 years old but has only recently been fitted with winglets.
Can't imagine it's very cheap to maintain.
Thanks

DjerbaDevil 26th Apr 2015 21:06

The oldest in the fleet is G-CELP followed by G-CELR and G-CELX. Of the same age as G-CELH, there are also the following: G-CELI, G-CELJ, G-CELS, G-CELW and G-CELZ. Very close behind by a month or so are: G-CELA, G-CELB, G-CELK, G-CELV and G-CELY. This makes a total of 14 aircraft of similar ages.
Earlier posts mention the possibility that the company may be in the process of ordering a number of new aircraft, which perhaps might replace some of the older in the fleet but it will not be immediate. It is rumoured that the announcement of any purchase plans will be made by the company at the Paris Air Show in the month of June.
These older aircraft are probably not that cheap to maintain but on the other hand they were bought outright by JET2 years ago and probably at a good price.

HOODED 27th Apr 2015 08:06

Older 733s
 
I doubt many of these early 733s will be going too soon. If they are spending money fitting winglets on them, and oil prices don't climb too quickly then they are cheap to operate. No lease costs make a difference. You can't be parking leased jets up in winter like Jet2 do if you have lease costs to pay on top of the parking fees.

taxi_driver 27th Apr 2015 10:48

Union Court Case
 
It's interesting that the company should spend so much time (and no doubt money)on court wrangles, rather than simply sitting down and talking to the Union about the pilots rostering concerns. Balpa is not perfect, but as Unions go it is fairly moderate.


From friends at J2 I hear of many pilots leaving, many due to roster disruption. Staff turnover is expensive, and fuels more disruption for those who are left, then large numbers being hired to replace them, many which need full type ratings which places further strain on training costs and more rostering headaches. Ignoring the original problem and paying expensive legal bills is therefore more expensive in the long run?

Jet2_738 27th Apr 2015 16:59

G-JZHD (B737-800, ex. EI-RUP) is down in Bournemouth receiving its new Paint work, and is due to be painted into the full Jet2holidays livery - That makes two of each livery in the G-JZH_ fleet. I understand winglets are likely to be fitted, the work to be carried out by LS mechanics in LBA. :ok:

G-JZHD Entering Airbourne Colours' Hanger in BOH:

https://12821401-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0
(Image Courtesy of Airbourne Colours on Facebook)

Sean Dillon 27th Apr 2015 17:05

Spot on Taxi_Driver! If only the clowns running this company would actually show that level of 'experienced' type thinking!

The removal of TWE is great! Still such a long way to go...

B16a 27th Apr 2015 18:23

Thanks for the fleet insight. It will be interesting to see just how long they will keep those older aircraft around. It's nice to see them still flying.
Do they use the aircraft with the forward large cargo door for freight operations very often ?
Thanks

buzz boy 27th Apr 2015 18:52

What is it with you Sean Dillon? determined to bite the hand that feeds you? I have many friends who work at Jet2 and all are pretty happy with their lot! Your career with Loganair , Thomsonfly, contracting for EZ then getting a perm job at Jet2 an awful lot of people would kill for! If your that unhappy with your lot then leave if its not for you, there are many who would jump at the chance to take your place tomorrow. :ugh:

Sean Dillon 27th Apr 2015 19:20

Well "Buzz Boy"...if people "need" the permanent opportunity at Jet2, they are very desperate! I appreciate why people leaving Eastern Airways may consider this a 'step up'...but time within this company will reveal all! It simply isn't...but only experience will reveal that!

Something Jet2 doesn't have...not in the right places anyway!

Tick...tock...tick...tock...

buzz boy 27th Apr 2015 19:28

So what you are saying is that you are / were desperate? From what I hear some 30 ish pilots have left, out of 600 ish that's around 5%, not huge and the majority are younger lads who are going to BA. I have several friends who are from my former airline working at Jet2, they paint a very very different picture to you. In fact I would warn those going to BA as i think they may get a shock! I have seen quite a few changes here over the past few years and its not pleasant, particularly if you are short haul, but that's another story.

Personally if i hated my employer as much as you do I would simply look elsewhere and get out. From what I hear from my friends there and former Jet2 guys who work here now its not such a bad place to be.

Sean Dillon 27th Apr 2015 19:40

All depends on where that "experience" is from as to how you rate where PM's Flying Circus is in the whole big scheme of things!

Double the number you think have left and that's more accurate, all leaving for UK jobs! That makes it more significant and it's not over yet! Some only lasted a few months and said the bond could be double the amount, they still would have paid to leave!

This is just a stepping stone airline...far from any career...good luck to those that think otherwise!

Johnny [email protected] Pants 27th Apr 2015 21:21

Oh Sean Sean Sean, your rants are becoming more and more tiresome, the same old same old over and over again.

Let's put this into some perspective, I do not believe you are correct with the doubling of the 30 pilots leaving I believe that the number is between 30-40, and there might well be a few more still to show their hand. You are correct, the majority going to jobs in the UK, that is BA, so....no real surprise, and no different, I'm sure (in fact I know), to other UK airlines. There will always be attrition when you have 600ish pilots, so those going elsewhere are no real surprise either, after all Jet2 won't suit everybody, I'm sure there are pilots at Jet2 who needed a job when they joined rather than wanted to join Jet2, and now have their opportunity to get a job where they want to be.

On the other touchy subject of the age of the aeroplanes, it has been said over and over, they might well be old, but they are constantly maintained to a high standard. Those that say they fly around with many faults are quite quite wrong, there are occasional items that are deferred, but they are few and far between, it's actually really rather infrequent to fly with deferred defects:ok:

Lord Spandex Masher 27th Apr 2015 22:59

I assume that Sean is one of BA's new hires?

Snigger snigger

Artie Fufkin 28th Apr 2015 06:25

Why does everyone insist on regurgitating this line that management have been pushing out recently; "only a handful of young FOs have left in the last year and all went to BA long haul". Its so patently untrue. We all know exactly who have left because we've been to the leaving dos! Not just "a handful of young FOs", but captains, line trainers, TREs, some of the most long serving and qualified pilots in the company. We know their reasons for leaving and I'm not going to repeat them here.

Whilst I explicitly express no personal opinion of my own on the subject, literally every single FO I know is actively trying to leave and most captains are either accepting of the fact that they are unlikely get a command at their local airport if they leave Jet2, or are considering their options. Hand on heart, I can't remember the last happy pilot I met in the crew room (management pilots aside).

I have been with the company since the early days and have never seen moral quite so crushingly low as it appears to be at the moment. Sean Dillon's views may seem like those of a disgruntled rogue, but I experience people with his views an awful lot once the flight deck door closes.

HH6702 28th Apr 2015 06:43

Summer 2016
 
Anybody know when jet2 holidays go on sale for May-October 2016?

gorter 28th Apr 2015 08:11

Jet2 4
 
Therein lies the rub Artie. People have been hacked off for a very long time. The difference now is that everyone else is recruiting. People are leaving Jet2 to go work at Ryanair! If that isn't setting off alarm bells nothing will. It seems that management are still taking the ostrich approach.

Johnny [email protected] Pants 28th Apr 2015 12:31

I evidently live in a different crew room to you guys then because I can't say that I have noticed a significant moral issue to be honest. I think you will find that whichever airline's crew room you stood round in you would find moans and groans. Don't get me wrong, it isn't perfect, as I've already said, but there is a lot worse and it wouldn't take much to make improvements.

Re the leavers, I agree that they are from a spectrum of the workforce not just young guys going to BA. The majority are off to BA, on a variety of fleets not just long haul. Some (very few) have decided to go back to Ryanair after Ryanair offered them what they wanted (base and permanent contract), but they certainly aren't in any sort of numbers that could be misconstrued as worrying imo.

I am making no assumptions as to who anyone on here is, those that know me know who I am on here. I don't hide, and if I have a grumble I don't air it in public, I have stuck my neck out when necessary in the past and wouldn't hesitate to speak to the relevant management if I had any again. Surely it's much better than coming on here and airing your dirty laundry when you probably haven't tried to actually speak to the relevant people with your issue and a possible way that it could be improved, not that we can all have what we want of course, after all this is a business.

As I have said before, no airline fits all its employees, but to state that a 5-10% attrition when the biggest player in the country is recruiting is hardly a surprise. Of the 5-10% probably only about 1% are off to anywhere other than BA.

endofeng 28th Apr 2015 16:31

Echoing JFP and others - Sean Dillon your ramblings are becoming tiresome!

You clearly have issues with J2, your prerogative - but please try to at least adhere to the basics of any debate/argument...... i.e. strike a balance between presenting your opinion, listening to your opponents' point of view and debate it from there - its all one way with you!

So much of your diatribe is also firmly positioned at individuals (which if proven would be liable) rather than a general overview of the company. Be careful Sean Dillon...........

May I offer you some advice - No? Oh well I'll offer it anyhow!

Leave J2, don't burn your bridges (you never know when you might need a job or reference!) and stop doing your dirty washing in front of the very people who actually pay your wages - the customers - it is neither needed or the action of a professional pilot - GROW UP!

nonfrequentflyer_NCL 28th Apr 2015 17:17

If I can interject here: as a new member to the forum can I just say that I wholeheartedly agree with Endofeng and his/her post inre: Sean Dillon.

As a traveller who uses J2, listening to (or reading) the thoughts of a disgruntled pilot or cabin crew who really does seem to bite the hand that feeds is a sad state of affairs.

Honestly, life is far too short to be that unhappy in a job and if you really are that fed up, I'd leave ASAP if I were you.

Just my two'penneth.

Cheers.

Sean Dillon 28th Apr 2015 22:26

Not going to even comment on the thoughts of spotters/passengers on a pilots website quite frankly!

But as the odd other poster bringing to the fore, in between the head-in-sand clowns/Meeson Cool Aid Drinkers, confirm what the reality of life at Jet2 is and that nothing will ever evolve due to the pathetic and childish culture of people thinking its a great success.

There is a 'brick wall' coming, someone will need to actually wake up! I did like the 'GROW UP' comment...something Jet2 has a lot to do!

I see Thomson have announced recruitment again in September - it just continues...

Lord Spandex Masher 28th Apr 2015 22:40

Soooooo, you didn't get into BA then.

Jet2_738 28th Apr 2015 22:48


I see Thomson have announced recruitment again in September - it just continues...
It continues, just like your persistent 'I hate my Job' rambling. As many have said, and what I can only echo, maybe it's time to leave LS and search elsewhere. Maybe you might jump at the recruitment opportunity, and go ahead and move over to TOM - if you manage to leave LS first... :ugh:

endofeng 29th Apr 2015 07:04


Originally Posted by Sean Dillon (Post 8959307)
Not going to even comment on the thoughts of spotters/passengers on a pilots website quite frankly!

Which is exactly the reason to why you should be exercising decorum/professionalism and acting your age and not your shoe size (UK shoe size!)....

Incidently your comments are also damaging for potential joiners. Do you really believe that all the pilots (over 400 now) are unhappy??

I find your comments unfounded and bias. Get yourself talking to other pilots at J2, you may find that most are actually quite happy operating from a base close to their families working hard in the Summer and not so in the Winter - for not a too shabby wage too......Oh, and try to speak to the happy pilots you see in the crew room as well (not just your stepping stone negative mates!!), you know the type, the ones that actually enjoy their jobs and come to work happy!!

So I hear you say 'wake up'.......well, I removed my rose tinted glasses many years ago in a previous airline, and as such, believe you me, J2 isn't that bad!

Every company has its problems, including the company you will eventually leave for, but for the majority we are happy.....

I'm not entering into sh*t fight with you SD, as it is clear you are desperately unhappy at J2....I don't want to add to your unhappiness. But....please accept that J2 is and will be a good choice of company to work for for many pilots. It won't work for some, much the same as long haul from a London airport wouldn't work for me, but rest assured it is the preferred for the vast majority!

Please take your negativity elsewhere - preferably your next company - good riddance Sean Dillon!

mockingjay 29th Apr 2015 07:32

Well, my experience with airlines is that they all have megalomaniacs running the show, you're micromanaged, you work you ass off to save a few pounds on flap three landings, single engine taxi etc whilst millions are squandered on pointless rubbish (you know things like celebrity voices on your TV ads, buying a thousand expensive tea pots that aren't usable onboard etc) everything is cut to the bone, you'rmroster is 'optimised' to within an inch of your life and the good old days are well and truly over and that doesn't matter if you're blue, orange, red or blue & yellow.

You need to sit and think about what each offers you and whether that is worth the lifestyle hit, the pay hit or a combination of the two. No airline is going to be perfect.

Every airline has a few vocal people who will shoot their company down but you also have the type that will vehemently defend their company despite facts clearly proving that things aren't that rosy, and LS seems to be exactly the same which is perfectly clear from this thread. I've never quite seen such militant defence of LS and anyone who dare question it are shot down in flames and I must commend Sean Dillon for sticking with what he feels and not letting the troops shoot him down. However as with my airline the extremely unhappy people and the company drones are fairly few and far between and a majority are happy and I would imagine LS is no different.

I just come to work, keep it friendly and SOP and go home. I dont get involved in the politics.

paully 29th Apr 2015 08:46

So Dillon you think the peeps down the back paying high ticket prices to keep you in a job (you obviously don`t deserve) are contemptible and are not allowed any opinion...Ever heard the expression `He who pays the piper`??

Through these threads many of us learn how your lives are led, the technical hurdles you have to jump through and yes, admire the single minded determination and cost it takes to get onto the flightdeck. The constant worry of health issues and many more. We feel reassured by the professionalism you possess and the patience shown when we ask daft questions, and we do..The vast majority of your colleagues accept that this forum is a two way street and we treat each other with respect.Unfortunately there is always the rude condescending :mad: that most of us hope we never have to fly with..

Finally I hope PM never finds out your real name or you might be looking for a new job sooner than you think

DjerbaDevil 29th Apr 2015 14:09

Looks like we now have a Sean Dillon thread instead of a JET2.

Nevertheless Sean Dillon should be encouraged to spill out his apocalyptic generalisations about JET2 here in PPRuNe , so that his company in the cockpit may be at an acceptable level. If he didnít have anywhere to vent his pent up feelings of everything JET2, then who knows what would give. The Mods recently eliminated one of Seanís posts but maybe it would be better to allow his posts, however extreme, and at the same time maybe he will be encouraged to be more specific about his ominous general complaints, so that we can be better informed of his reasoning.

TOM are indeed hiring but only part time and with 7k training fee for TRíd pilots. BA are also hiring but SH pilots are not happy with the new life styles, so it is reported that some are leaving or looking to leave. In view of the foregoing, is JET2 really that bad in comparison?

Could it be that those that complain from within the company have tried employment elsewhere and failed or havenít realised their optimum career expectations? The better way to look at life is the saying, ďif you have a problem, solve it and if you cannot solve it, then you donít have a problem.Ē

One thing is certain and that is that Sean Dillon encourages JET2 to flourish, as the share price has risen to double its value in the last year to almost 400p.

Leeds Spotter 29th Apr 2015 14:48

I used to own a business employing over a thousand people. I know that most member of staff thought my decisions were wrong and that the company would collapse tomorrow.
It survivied 40 years until I sold, when PM sells his shares so will I.
Can we not restore this forum to discussing the direction of travel of the company and its aims and expectations and whether they will happen.
In any forum you need balance, Sean puts one side of the story, we only have city briefing sheets as the other side, I am not allowed to put them up on this forum unfortunately.
Can we discuss things that everyone can take part in...........please

Bearpit 29th Apr 2015 19:35

S16- on sale!
 
Well, how about looking positively for a change. Looks like summer 16 flights are going on sale. Newcastle has more flights to Greece from a quick glance. Good to see Jet2 continuing to grow. Presume more to come! :D

garry8g 29th Apr 2015 21:00

Jet2 - Glasgow Summer 16 release
 
Murcia seems to have been dropped from the Glasgow itinerary for summer 2016.

Wonder if some new routes are on the cards?

And any further expansion of aircraft?

BFS BHD 29th Apr 2015 21:26

New route to Fuerteventura from Belfast International Airport for Jet2 in S16!

DjerbaDevil 29th Apr 2015 21:52


Murcia seems to have been dropped from the Glasgow itinerary for summer 2016.
This could be due to the possible closing of MJV and the opening of Corbera airport a few miles up the road. Time will tell but there are difficulties, as the Murcia airport staff don't want to move and the EU are considering whether a loan from the regional Government to the owners of Corbera airport is legal.

pug 29th Apr 2015 23:08

Or the significant growth of a current base where routes are currently thin on the ground...

LNIDA 30th Apr 2015 16:52

garry8g
 
You'd have to be bonkers to book with any airline that far out. If its DIY you need to avoid booking any accommodation/car hire/airport car parking based on the current flight times, if its Jet2Holidays then any changes will be sorted out by them, but letting any airline sit on your dosh for 12-18months can't be clever even with todays very low RoR on savings

Before Jet2_738 starts bleating 'any airline'

Jet2_738 30th Apr 2015 17:34

Jet2 Charters - G-POWM
 
On another note, Chartered A320, G-POWM has just been positioned as EXS061J from STN up to GLA. So it would seem that LS do not intend to cancel any lease, even with the addition of G-JZHD, unless the Privilege Style 757-200 is cancelled, which of course is unlikely. :ok:

Jet2holidays tend not to change flight times, as they aren't a charter airline like that of TOM, or TCX. That said, in that time, the aircraft config could have changed, so like LNIDA says, it wouldn't be advisable booking seats or airport car parking just yet. Anyone looking to book holidays should hold off a little - the release price tends to be higher than of that shortly afterwards. :ok:

mockingjay 30th Apr 2015 18:06

Funny that, in post 2149 you were saying that they are just like TOM/TCX. So they aren't a low cost airline and now they aren't like a charter airline. Jet2 really have found a niche!

Jet2_738 30th Apr 2015 18:13


Funny that, in post 2149 you were saying that they are just like TOM/TCX. So they aren't a low cost airline and now they aren't like a charter airline. Jet2 really have found a niche!

charter airline like that of TOM, or TCX.
What I meant was they aren't a charter airline (like TOM and TCX who are). They are in various aspects very similar to that of TCX and TOM - but as I said, they aren't a charter airline. :ugh:

kieb92 1st May 2015 09:21

G-POWM Jet2/Titan Hybrid:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16705479123

ATNotts 1st May 2015 11:03

Jet2_738

I would say that apart from a few city break routes the overwhelming majority of Jet2's business is bucket and spade to the Med., and the flight operated mainly for the benefit of it's group company Jet2 Holidays - which is why some aircraft are liveried as such.

it would be interesting to compare the split between package and independent travelers booking on Jet2 bucket and spade routes, and compare the ratios with those of TCX / TOM. I reckon there wouldn't be a lot of difference.

Difference between Jet2 and the others is that Jet2 spawned the tour operator, whereas with the other two, tour operators spawned the airline.

Please don't kid yourselves that Jet2 won't change flight timings between now and Summer 2016. Slot allocations at the more congested airports haven't even started yet for S2016, and you can be sure that if a destination isn't selling as expected then consolidations and cancellations will take place - whether they are called that is another matter.

garry8g 1st May 2015 14:28

LNIDA

I wasn't planning on booking any flights yet, it was just an observation with some questions.


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