Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Flybe-V2

Old 30th Jul 2022, 10:26
  #401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Its also not just as simple as saying we want to fly from A - B airport. The airports may offer some deals, the company may be happy to pay full rates on fees.. but is there a market for it? Over the last few years we've seen a lot of companies saying they will do this, that and the other on the regional market and it doesn't always come through.

Business travel has changed the whole market has changed, routes that historically were very good maybe not so much now, where as other routes can charge a premium and they will still have good loads. CI's and BHD out of SOU are good examples of this. You cant drive easily to either, and both have good load factors and the CIs dont have cheap fares by any means.
wanna is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 15:46
  #402 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 42
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb View Post
SOU donít care which airline operates what route, if the deal is right for them they will welcome whomever with open arms, fact!
Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.

Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and canít do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers arenít the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. Iíd like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 15:57
  #403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.

Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and canít do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers arenít the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. Iíd like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
I repeat, SOU doesnít care who operates what routes as long as its financially viable and commercially successful, this I know. I agree that another BE monopoly would not be ideal although footfall through the terminal is ultimately king. Also remember BE or any other regional are not in competition with the likes of EZY and there is very much room for both!
stewyb is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 18:07
  #404 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rivet Joint View Post
Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.

Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and canít do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers arenít the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. Iíd like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
BE and KL co-existed quite happily before. As did BE/AF. A mutually beneficial relationship with BE feeding the hubs and KL/AF underpinning the BE operation. Makes sense to me and suits all parties.
TartinTon is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 20:55
  #405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.

And I didnít think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?

None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - theyíre just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.

The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.

Albert Hall is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 21:22
  #406 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.

And I didnít think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?

None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - theyíre just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.

The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
for your information EZY are very interested in SOU for the future!👍
stewyb is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 21:29
  #407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The runway extension ( when it happens) will help with payloads,but the on going persistence with Easy seting up a base is pie in the sky!
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
RW20 is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 21:45
  #408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20 View Post
The runway extension ( when it happens) will help with payloads,but the on going persistence with Easy seting up a base is pie in the sky!
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
Doesnít need to be an EZY base to add a select number of routes!

Last edited by stewyb; 30th Jul 2022 at 22:30.
stewyb is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2022, 22:19
  #409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Difficult to see what select routes can be added,considering Bournemouth has the sun routes tied up,certainty Paris for example coudnt fill a 320,but may be a flybe 400?
Realistically given the runway extension Easy or other operators could offer some seasonally Summer weekly operations,but it's going to be limited, look at Southend as a example, runway extension,stands( more the SOU) and airside improvements,now virtually without daytime operations!

RW20 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 00:45
  #410 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,057
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20 View Post
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
Please define ďsun routeĒ

While I am being pedantic, in the interests of technical correctness should you not be ďRWY20Ē, or maybe ďRWY26Ē?
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 09:17
  #411 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.

And I didnít think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?

None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - theyíre just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.

The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
Sorry to correct you but BE and KL did co-exist in the sense that they codeshared on the routes happily until BE started to over-expand (in KLs eyes) on MAN/BHX AMS routes at which point they threw their toys out of the pram and pulled the codeshare.

Previous to that they had a mutually beneficial co-operation.
TartinTon is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 09:21
  #412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 58
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Emerald are increasing BHD-SOU to 2 daily on some days starting from around the August Bank Holiday weekend.

With 2 daily Eastern (most days) and daily BEE this means there will now be more capacity on this route than there ever was pre-pandemic (it was usually up to 3 daily BEE Mk1)

Can't see this being sustainable.
Wycombe is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 09:57
  #413 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Emerald do seem to be putting a lot of effort into establishing themselves, arguably a little more than Flybe. Emerald have the benefit of the backing of the Aer Lingus brand and booking systems, a recognised brand in Ireland as well as the U.K. Between them and Loganair they do seem to be tying up the regional market.

For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.

If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.
wanna is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 14:01
  #414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 42
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wanna View Post
Emerald do seem to be putting a lot of effort into establishing themselves, arguably a little more than Flybe. Emerald have the benefit of the backing of the Aer Lingus brand and booking systems, a recognised brand in Ireland as well as the U.K. Between them and Loganair they do seem to be tying up the regional market.

For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.

If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.
I donít think anyone is confused. Restrictions for existing aircraft is common knowledge. LM themselves have said it affects their 145s.

I would be very surprised if any of you think SOU is investing many millions of pounds just to help the existing carriers operate a bit better. No company makes a large investment for such a small gain. Remember airports get money from landing fees, footfall etc. they want to open up a new revenue stream and take the next step in development which means bigger aircraft and more passengers. I agree itís odd that they arenít also creating the bigger stands etc but thatís likely phase 2.

To anyone who thinks EZY wouldnít be a success at SOU you must be forgetting a large chunk of LGWs customers come from this area and Hampshire is one of the wealthiest counties in the country. If EZY could offer the same fairs at SOU as they do at LGW then why wouldnít people use SOU? Your next question no doubt will be whatís in it for EZY? Why split a base? Competition. Lots at LGW and none at SOU.

Getting back to BE I hope they do open more routes at SOU but focus on MAN, CDG, French second home market and maybe the Scottish routes.
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 16:04
  #415 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
While SOU would definitely be attractive for some (not necessarily a large chunk) of EZYís LGW customers, EZY will obviously continue to firstly maximise their LGW slot base. If/when they get to the point that no more significant expansion is possible at LGW then SOU could get interesting. In the meantime they could try the odd W pattern to test the water.
willy wombat is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 16:21
  #416 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Willy wombat, your points make sense and are more realistic.unfortunately some contributors on here can get carried away
RW20 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 16:33
  #417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Back to Flybe also. The routes from NCL, ABZ, INV to BHD were all new, so itís apparent why they might need new aircraft deliveries to fly them. They were already flying MAN but are stopping - is this related to aircraft deliveries also?
Albert Hall is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 17:23
  #418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 756
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20 View Post
Willy wombat, your points make sense and are more realistic.unfortunately some contributors on here can get carried away
not me fella, said all along EZY will most likely come in with some away base routes initially!
stewyb is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2022, 19:59
  #419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
Back to Flybe also. The routes from NCL, ABZ, INV to BHD were all new, so itís apparent why they might need new aircraft deliveries to fly them. They were already flying MAN but are stopping - is this related to aircraft deliveries also?
Yep. There was supposed to be an aircraft arriving 25Jul which clearly hasn't and it looks like they've decided that it's more important to have a standby from 15Aug than fly 7 lines with 7 airframes which they will be doing until then.

Seems like a sensible decision.
TartinTon is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2022, 00:34
  #420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There was supposed to be an aircraft arriving 25Jul
Put back 1-2 weeks
jethro15 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.