Flybe-V2
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The statement can be found here: https://www.flybe.com/en/support/summer2022
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As I've said before Flybe has a contract with the lessor to deliver the aircraft, it's the lessors responsibility to get the aircraft delivered on time and make sure those aircraft stayed in a serviceable condition for the last two years. From experience most lessors will do the bare minimum to them to keep them legal without paying out big money to keep them ready to fly away in days. Flybe signed the original contract last year so they've given the lessor & maintenance plenty of time to get these aircraft ready. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out as anticipated which is very disappointing! I have to actually wonder myself why they didn't purchase a few Q400s to have a bit more control of availability rather than solely relying on leasing.
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of course not but it’s not out of the question to have back up plans. BA rightly gets stick for over selling seats it can’t provide and it’s gone to great lengths to lease in others from Iberia and Finnair.
Flybe tried to go up against others and didn’t have the equipment or a plan. Now passengers who trusted Flybe will have to make alternative arrangements likely at a higher cost as it’s now closer to their travel dates.
All the cheerleaders told us everything was sorted, Flybe had the pick of planes and chose the best.
Emerald doesn’t seem to have had similar issues sourcing a regional jet fleet so evidently it was possible, or at least possible to sell seats based on what was realistic.
If the lessor specifically promised planes by a certain date any decent contract should have some kind of compensation clause so you’d hope they at least get something out of this.
Flybe tried to go up against others and didn’t have the equipment or a plan. Now passengers who trusted Flybe will have to make alternative arrangements likely at a higher cost as it’s now closer to their travel dates.
All the cheerleaders told us everything was sorted, Flybe had the pick of planes and chose the best.
Emerald doesn’t seem to have had similar issues sourcing a regional jet fleet so evidently it was possible, or at least possible to sell seats based on what was realistic.
If the lessor specifically promised planes by a certain date any decent contract should have some kind of compensation clause so you’d hope they at least get something out of this.
Last edited by BA318; 7th Jul 2022 at 14:38.
Probably because of what you just said. They've been sitting around for 2 years in not exactly hot and dry locations (Saarbrucken/Weeze) and the lessors haven't been taking remedial care of them hence the ridiculous amount of time required to get the hulls back into airworthy shape.
I'll get my coat.
When Flybe v1 went bust in early 2020... why were the aircraft stored in northern Europe, rather than somewhere like Teruel ? Or, if Covid prevented that from happening initially... why were the aircraft not moved in maybe June or July 2020 ? Was it simply leasing companies panicking about a severe outflow of cash and worried that they would go bankrupt ?
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When Flybe v1 went bust in early 2020... why were the aircraft stored in northern Europe, rather than somewhere like Teruel ? Or, if Covid prevented that from happening initially... why were the aircraft not moved in maybe June or July 2020 ? Was it simply leasing companies panicking about a severe outflow of cash and worried that they would go bankrupt ?
I don't know a huge amount about the mechanics of leasing aircraft.... but when one plans to enter into a contract for a few months, is it normal to do a (brief) test flight - i.e. up in the air and fly a bit around the airfield - and get an engineer to do a brief inspection of the aircraft prior to signing with wet ink ? If the aircraft is in a poor state, I'd be rather dubious about relying on it verbal promises of "don't worry, we'll patch it up"
When buying a house, I'd want to do a survey at my own cost before putting in an offer, and then (post exchange, pre completion) I'd want to have another brief look around the property to make sure there's been no disasters (i.e. roof has not collapsed). Footballers get a thorough medical before any transfer document gets signed
If some sort of inspection pre-signing is normal, why were the technical issues with the planned-to-be-leased aircraft not spotted in advance ?
Apologies if this sounds terribly naive, and I'm not trying to have a go at Flybe, but I'm just genuinely puzzled as to why Flybe hasn't got the aircraft it expected from lessors, in the condition it expected
When buying a house, I'd want to do a survey at my own cost before putting in an offer, and then (post exchange, pre completion) I'd want to have another brief look around the property to make sure there's been no disasters (i.e. roof has not collapsed). Footballers get a thorough medical before any transfer document gets signed
If some sort of inspection pre-signing is normal, why were the technical issues with the planned-to-be-leased aircraft not spotted in advance ?
Apologies if this sounds terribly naive, and I'm not trying to have a go at Flybe, but I'm just genuinely puzzled as to why Flybe hasn't got the aircraft it expected from lessors, in the condition it expected
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I missed the memo that I have to be supportive of Flybe. As I’ve said before we’re each entitled to our views and this is a forum to discuss it. I’m sure Bean will be along shortly to back you up though.
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I don't know a huge amount about the mechanics of leasing aircraft.... but when one plans to enter into a contract for a few months, is it normal to do a (brief) test flight - i.e. up in the air and fly a bit around the airfield - and get an engineer to do a brief inspection of the aircraft prior to signing with wet ink ? If the aircraft is in a poor state, I'd be rather dubious about relying on it verbal promises of "don't worry, we'll patch it up"
When buying a house, I'd want to do a survey at my own cost before putting in an offer, and then (post exchange, pre completion) I'd want to have another brief look around the property to make sure there's been no disasters (i.e. roof has not collapsed). Footballers get a thorough medical before any transfer document gets signed
If some sort of inspection pre-signing is normal, why were the technical issues with the planned-to-be-leased aircraft not spotted in advance ?
Apologies if this sounds terribly naive, and I'm not trying to have a go at Flybe, but I'm just genuinely puzzled as to why Flybe hasn't got the aircraft it expected from lessors, in the condition it expected
When buying a house, I'd want to do a survey at my own cost before putting in an offer, and then (post exchange, pre completion) I'd want to have another brief look around the property to make sure there's been no disasters (i.e. roof has not collapsed). Footballers get a thorough medical before any transfer document gets signed
If some sort of inspection pre-signing is normal, why were the technical issues with the planned-to-be-leased aircraft not spotted in advance ?
Apologies if this sounds terribly naive, and I'm not trying to have a go at Flybe, but I'm just genuinely puzzled as to why Flybe hasn't got the aircraft it expected from lessors, in the condition it expected
Emerald have managed to get their fleet in order and announce new routes when they know they can operate them.
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It is a fair point - according to Jethros fleet lists, Emerald look to have taken 11 ATR72s and Loganair have taken 5 ATRs this year, many of which have come through the same Exeter MRO that Flybe's Q400s have been into. Most of those Emerald and Loganair aircraft have been in storage for a couple of years too and NAC is one of the leasing companies involved all round. The problem is either very specific to the Q400 or specific to Flybe.
The new schedule has them thinly spread across a lot of markets. easyJet, Emerald, Loganair and the likes must be laughing.
The new schedule has them thinly spread across a lot of markets. easyJet, Emerald, Loganair and the likes must be laughing.
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In their defence Bombardier has transferred ownership of the Q400 to a new entity, so that wont have helped. Eastern have recalled a wet-lease E-190 from TAP to cover their unavailable fleet. FlyBe are (by all accounts) a new airline so delays are quite common and their fleet ramp-up was ambitious. That is before difficulties recruiting and getting security checks for crew are taken into account.
I think a few things have happened all at once, rather than one single disaster as flyBe are trying to spin.
I think a few things have happened all at once, rather than one single disaster as flyBe are trying to spin.
The problem is either very specific to the Q400 or specific to Flybe.
By my reckoning (and using FR24 data per aircraft) Flybe operated 44 sectors with their current 6 aircraft yesterday (4 Q400's and the leased-in ATR72 and E175)
That is impressive utilisation, but also means there is little room for things to go wrong.
Worth also pointing out that there were only a couple of those 44 sectors with a delay of around 1hr or less (nothing worse than that), and the vast majority operated to schedule (or in the case of the E175 sectors, some a bit early)
One can only hope that this continues and that some decent no's are being carried.
Having said that, and referring to some of the posts above, one hopes that the decision to go with an aircraft that is out of production, and where the OEM is no longer directly involved are not proving to be a big risk to the success of this venture.
That is impressive utilisation, but also means there is little room for things to go wrong.
Worth also pointing out that there were only a couple of those 44 sectors with a delay of around 1hr or less (nothing worse than that), and the vast majority operated to schedule (or in the case of the E175 sectors, some a bit early)
One can only hope that this continues and that some decent no's are being carried.
Having said that, and referring to some of the posts above, one hopes that the decision to go with an aircraft that is out of production, and where the OEM is no longer directly involved are not proving to be a big risk to the success of this venture.
Last edited by Wycombe; 8th Jul 2022 at 08:59.
Very unfortunate that Flybe have had to make these decisions, however it's a testament to good management at v2 that they're making big changes now rather than tickle around the edges.
It's through no real fault of Flybe, more on the head of the lessors and their inability to deliver additional Q400 airframes. Flybe uniquely affected by this, and the regional operation reliant on the Q400 and its unavailability.
1 more airframe should be operational soon, when it's back from Malta.
It's through no real fault of Flybe, more on the head of the lessors and their inability to deliver additional Q400 airframes. Flybe uniquely affected by this, and the regional operation reliant on the Q400 and its unavailability.
1 more airframe should be operational soon, when it's back from Malta.
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A shame just as flights were operating consistently on schedule. I hope LHR plan to compensate carriers accordingly.
Does anyone know if they will continue to operate just with the passengers already sold tickets or these are effectively cancelled?