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Old 21st Jul 2022, 08:37
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Originally Posted by BA318 View Post
The Embraer E195E2 is expected into LCY on Friday.
The Embraer E190E2 has been seen at LCY daily for some time, operated by Helvetic on behalf of Swiss; the difference with the E195 seems to be just another three seat rows. It also has extended wingtips, which I guess restricts it to only the newer eastern gates at LCY, unlike the current Embraer fleets. This is not insignificant, because the established western gates have the nicely rebuilt pier, with a range of pleasant catering concessions and seating, whereas the eastern pier is a pretty poor, temporary-feeling (as you can tell from the bouncing floor), featureless grey corridor that one is regularly expected to queue in.

We also had the silly (and it is) "Profit Hunter" logoed E190 come in four years ago after the last Farnborough in 2018 - presumably this is a different airframe rather than a cut-and-shut job on the previous one.
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 09:27
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
The Embraer E190E2 has been seen at LCY daily for some time, operated by Helvetic on behalf of Swiss; the difference with the E195 seems to be just another three seat rows. It also has extended wingtips, which I guess restricts it to only the newer eastern gates at LCY, unlike the current Embraer fleets. This is not insignificant, because the established western gates have the nicely rebuilt pier, with a range of pleasant catering concessions and seating, whereas the eastern pier is a pretty poor, temporary-feeling (as you can tell from the bouncing floor), featureless grey corridor that one is regularly expected to queue in.

We also had the silly (and it is) "Profit Hunter" logoed E190 come in four years ago after the last Farnborough in 2018 - presumably this is a different airframe rather than a cut-and-shut job on the previous one.
I was always told the reason 195 v1 wasn't certified was something to do about the risks of tail strikes? Isn't that still a risk on the E2 version?
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 10:44
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Originally Posted by cavokblues View Post
I was always told the reason 195 v1 wasn't certified was something to do about the risks of tail strikes? Isn't that still a risk on the E2 version?
I believe you are correct, the E195 is longer behind the main gear than the E190, and with the steeper approach the risk of tail strike led to it being outside the LCY parameters. The same applied to the E175 compared to the E170.

I must say I never quite got why Embraer offered no less than four different fuselage lengths on the Embraer simultaneously, with E170/175/190/195. Seemed a lot of certification complexity and non-standardisation, particularly for secondhand and re-leasing values. Surely two would have been enough.
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 11:02
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Maybe this latest certification is in readiness for a BACF fleet renewal announcement?
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 11:52
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Yeah, it is slightly strange they offered four versions. Could never quite understand the logic myself.

Regarding BACF - my (probably out of date now) understanding was the Scope agreement with the unions means they cannot fly aircraft with more than 100 seats (hence the reason their 190s are marked SR - Seating Restriction - and limited to 98 seats. If that's still in force there is no need for the 195 and the extra capacity. To be honest, I think the 190 is pretty perfect for them anyway, you would probably see the 190 E2 more than anything.
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 12:42
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Originally Posted by cavokblues View Post
Yeah, it is slightly strange they offered four versions. Could never quite understand the logic myself.

Regarding BACF - my (probably out of date now) understanding was the Scope agreement with the unions means they cannot fly aircraft with more than 100 seats (hence the reason their 190s are marked SR - Seating Restriction - and limited to 98 seats. If that's still in force there is no need for the 195 and the extra capacity. To be honest, I think the 190 is pretty perfect for them anyway, you would probably see the 190 E2 more than anything.
Agreed, the E90 E2 is probably preferred with a similar configuration as Helvetic’s 110 seat which operates regularly in to LCY!
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Old 21st Jul 2022, 12:48
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Originally Posted by cavokblues View Post
Yeah, it is slightly strange they offered four versions. Could never quite understand the logic myself.

Regarding BACF - my (probably out of date now) understanding was the Scope agreement with the unions means they cannot fly aircraft with more than 100 seats (hence the reason their 190s are marked SR - Seating Restriction - and limited to 98 seats. If that's still in force there is no need for the 195 and the extra capacity. To be honest, I think the 190 is pretty perfect for them anyway, you would probably see the 190 E2 more than anything.
That rule no longer applies.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 13:42
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The British Airways / Sun Air service to Billund returned today on the Do328 Jet, I wonder if there's enough of a market with competition from er.....British Airways at LHR at a *MUCH* lower price point.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 14:22
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
The British Airways / Sun Air service to Billund returned today on the Do328 Jet, I wonder if there's enough of a market with competition from er.....British Airways at LHR at a *MUCH* lower price point.
BA compete/Duplicate on over 13 routed from LCY and LHR with price variations.
Starting to duplicate on LGW too, they always done this
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 15:05
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Originally Posted by cavokblues View Post
hence the reason their 190s are marked SR - Seating Restriction - and limited to 98 seats.
SR stands for Short Runway
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 15:09
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Originally Posted by V_2 View Post
SR stands for Short Runway
imagine BA will go E90 E2 or A220-100, any preference?
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 15:25
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Originally Posted by tictack67 View Post
BA compete/Duplicate on over 13 routed from LCY and LHR with price variations.
Starting to duplicate on LGW too, they always done this
The lowest ex LCY is 5-6 times the equivalent entry level LHR fare, it's an all Business Class service out of LCY with Sun Air so it's not quite an apples to apples comparison. Time will tell.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 15:42
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
The lowest ex LCY is 5-6 times the equivalent entry level LHR fare, it's an all Business Class service out of LCY with Sun Air so it's not quite an apples to apples comparison. Time will tell.
Although the fares are priced as such and the service is like Business class it is actually Economy on Sun Air. Its a great use of avios as it only costs about 5000 one way and you get a pretty decent flight. When I took it they served a salad, Ice cream and alcohol/digestifs all in a little more than an hour.

They have a very loyal following and they know their crowd - point to point business traffic. The rest can take the BA LHR flight.
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 12:11
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The Sun Air/BA flight to Billund has run for many years, back to the turboprop Dornier times before the current jet. Sun Air are local there and seem to know their market.

The BA Heathrow flight get back there after 10pm, some days after 11pm. By the time you have got your bags, good luck getting anywhere other than in a taxi. Sun Air run at key business times morning and evening.
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 19:41
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Today's LHR was cancelled! 7 of us outbound LCY-BLL today, the evening return begins tomorrow. Amazing acceleration on the Do328Jet!!
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Old 7th Sep 2022, 10:47
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Originally Posted by V_2 View Post
SR stands for Short Runway
SR stands for Scope Restriction. They are limited to 98 seats to comply with a now extinct scope clause.

The BACF 190SRs, are no better or worse on a short runway, than any other 190 that lands at LCY. And Lufthansa, KLM, Helvetic, LOT, TAP don't have SR aircraft.
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