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Southampton-3

Old 8th Jun 2022, 12:41
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Originally Posted by RW20
SOU is cat 1 ILS only on 20, 02 has poor landing aids with RNAV at best giving a DH at 500feet!
Nowhere near the ILS on both ends of Southend runway!
I'm sure TCAS FAN will give us a definitive comparison of both airports runway .I believe however 02 runway t/o /landing distance is not enhanced by the 20 extension!
Again limited improvement to SOU route development,more improvement to existing load factors in adverse runway conditions.
For the benefit of other recent posts the actual runway length is academic, its the resulatant declared distances and obstacle environment in the take-off/climb surface (TOCS) which will be used for performance calculations. IMHO SEN's TOCS is overall better than SOU's. That said here is a comparison chart, I will leave it to readers to draw their own conclusions, albeit I am reasonably sure that AGS will have discussed them with current and prospective operators. One cautionary note, it is my understanding that CAA has not as yet approved the new SOU declared distances.
SOU RWY 02 (M) (SEN RWY 05)
TORA 1745 (1739)
TODA 1805 (1799)
ASDA 1745 (1739)
LDA 1673 (1604)

SOU RWY 20 (M) (SEN RWY 23)
TORA 1814 (1739)
TODA 1874 (1799)
ASDA 1814 (1799)
LDA 1605 (1604)

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 8th Jun 2022 at 12:42. Reason: Table layout
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 13:34
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
For the benefit of other recent posts the actual runway length is academic, its the resulatant declared distances and obstacle environment in the take-off/climb surface (TOCS) which will be used for performance calculations. IMHO SEN's TOCS is overall better than SOU's. That said here is a comparison chart, I will leave it to readers to draw their own conclusions, albeit I am reasonably sure that AGS will have discussed them with current and prospective operators. One cautionary note, it is my understanding that CAA has not as yet approved the new SOU declared distances.
SOU RWY 02 (M) (SEN RWY 05)
TORA 1745 (1739)
TODA 1805 (1799)
ASDA 1745 (1739)
LDA 1673 (1604)

SOU RWY 20 (M) (SEN RWY 23)
TORA 1814 (1739)
TODA 1874 (1799)
ASDA 1814 (1799)
LDA 1605 (1604)
Thanks and both airports clearly have very similar technical data. One improvement I imagine that will positively effect TOCS at SOU will be the remedial works at Marlhill Copse?
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 13:34
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Interesting. Are you able to provide a comparison with respect to obstacles affecting climb out/engine out performance?
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 13:39
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Originally Posted by stewyb
Thanks and both airports clearly have very similar technical data. One improvement I imagine that will positively effect TOCS at SOU will be the remedial works at Marlhill Copse?
That's correct.
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 13:50
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
Interesting. Are you able to provide a comparison with respect to obstacles affecting climb out/engine out performance?
I could, but would have to invoice you for the work!

Type A Charts, which depict the relevant TOCS obstacles are available online from the NATS/AIS website http://www.nats.aero/ais.
.
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 13:51
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For the aircraft I fly, in identical conditions, calm wind, 25deg C and QNH1013…. Southampton RWY20 is limited by obstacles in the climb out. Southampton 02 and Southend 23 and 05 not so.

Runway length is often not a limiting factor in aircraft performance. Performance restrictions will be the most limiting of runway length, width, slope, surface, and obstacles.

The main benefit to the Southampton extension will be to put the obstacles further from the start of the 20 takeoff run, making them less likely to be limiting.

Link to CAA obstacle chart for Southampton;
NATS EGHI Obstacles
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 22:17
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Grrr

Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Ok youíre right. A business is just throwing millions of pounds down the drain. A business own by a pension fund by the way, who are as risk adverse as it gets. This fact alone really should stop all the doubters.

Letís be honest, a big chunk of LGWs passengers come from the areas surrounding Southampton and Iím sure the majority of them would pay a premium to fly from SOU rather than the nightmare that is LGW. SOU does have its own train station and motorway junction which shouldnít be overlooked. Few airports have this. It is never going to be a huge base but can definitely see a respectable base doing well at SOU. Itís a wealthy area with many second home owners. If EZY donít move in then im sure the likes of Wizz will which EZY will not want.
Absolutely, but once the runway is sorted and larger aircraft become common, Southampton and it's cramped terminal will become just another 'packed' experience. I don't follow the plans for Southampton closely, but hopefully a terminal expansion is close? Currently the terminal is suited to 100 seaters or less.
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Old 8th Jun 2022, 22:33
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear
Absolutely, but once the runway is sorted and larger aircraft become common, Southampton and it's cramped terminal will become just another 'packed' experience. I don't follow the plans for Southampton closely, but hopefully a terminal expansion is close? Currently the terminal is suited to 100 seaters or less.
Indeed this will be a problem although the airport just doesnít have the stand space currently for larger operations so a limited expansion of low cost routes is all they can expect in the short term (see my post 793)
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 05:20
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Flew out of their last week

It was a dream
We were the only flight in the morning; a dornier to Alderney !
The airport empty
They had to try and find a barista to open up Costa!
Considering the half term chaos at other airports this was like going back in time

It would be a shame if this became a big low cost base like Southend!

Agree capacity is very constrained atm
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 06:00
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I only used Southend a couple of times and I wouldn't have said it was a big low cost base. If was always quite a refreshing experience compared to Stansted / Luton / Gatwick.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 06:40
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Excellent Customer Service at SOU - top notch

Off to JMK on BA this Sunday morning for Hols - flight does not seem busy.
Looking forward to the calm and quiet of SOU and to fly on a decent airline and a nice aircraft.

Had an issue in booking my Blue Badge Parking at SOU and so sent a constructive comments complaint to AGS CEO Derek Provan - Immediate reply from him - we will sort this for you and at 21.30 that same evening Steve Szalay the new SOU Operations Director personally called me and offered me 2 weeks free parking -
Now that is customer service - top notch.

Had a nice chat with him - Told him I was retired ''Industry'', and I asked him if SOU was coping OK and he said we have 4 periods each week where potential staff shortages on the ground handling side could cause an issue but he is 'well on it' and so far no problems -
SOU had 400 ground staff pre-Covid - they now have less than 150 with an increasing flight program, with an ongoing recruitment program too.

I asked him how were the BA loads so far this season and he was sort of non-committal...
I do feel that BA needs to be more ''out there'' and so many folk local to me here in Dorset have no idea of what BA offer from SOU (and at pretty good fares)
I hope that BA does well at SOU this first full year of non-interrupted Ops.
At least TUI package holidays have taken seats on the Palma flights (I think they may have taken a whole plane)

FYI 21-25 June train strikes - so trains maybe or will be affected to/from the Airport Station.

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Old 9th Jun 2022, 11:16
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I understand that the TUI Palma flights are Saturday afternoons and a whole aircraft charter, so not bookable via BA.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 16:42
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Originally Posted by Jn14:6
I understand that the TUI Palma flights are Saturday afternoons and a whole aircraft charter, so not bookable via BA.
TUI Holidays are also now using both the SAT and SUN BA scheduled SOU-PMI flights - same times as per the BA Flight Timetable -
I guess they have taken blocks of seats on those, or buying in at an IT rate.

The BA charter for TUI on Saturdays seems to be out at 1450, and 1940 arrive back home.
A highly desirable weekend day flight at great times.
When you search a TUI Majorca holiday booking it is offering you a choice of all the BA flights on some high season weekends.
Could be doing very well for them...Hence TUI now selling holidays on the Scheduled flights on both days too.

I wonder if TUI will pick up more summer holidays on BA flights in 2023 from SOU to Ibiza Malaga Faro and Alicante >
or too much competition with its Bournemouth program>?


TUI dropped Mykonos from its Brochure a few years back; Most accommodation in Mykonos is way too expensive for TUI to contract.
The loads on BA's JMK last season were not that impressive I gather.
This year TUI have strangely dropped Santorini flying from LGW, but still offers it direct from BRS and BHX.

Ingham's used to have Flybe flights SOU to Verona - Very popular indeed with flights going on WED and SATS.
Verona VRN would be a very good one for BA from SOU for TUI and Inghams - who both have large summer Lakes and Mountains programs.

Salzburg and Chambery (BA winter only from SOU) would both fit nicely with TUI's Crystal Ski, and Inghams Ski programs.

The pretty disastrous Skiathos charter series (flown by Flybe with a hefty payload restriction) shows that you do need integrations with Tour Operators to help you share and take the risk - such as could have been with TUI, Olympic, Ionian Island Holidays, CV Villas, Mark Warner and Sunvil Holidays.
Had that Travel Company (who were actually a seat-only sales agency) wooed the Skiathos package holiday and Villa specialists with its SOU-JSI flight series then I am sure it should have been very successful.
Likewise the Enter Air charter flights based from LGW to Corfu, Preveza, Rhodes, Skiathos via Volos, Samos via Lemnos etc are all shared with above smaller Greek holiday specialists and have been basing a 737-800 at LGW for a number of years now.


TUI Flight Only Last Minute Deals for June on the BA SOU - PMI Charter are from £79, and in July from £92 (no 1 weekers - only 2 or 3 weekers)
Some dates saying only 2 3 or 4 seats left...Goodness!
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Old 15th Jun 2022, 10:34
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Eastern are cancelling more MAN/BHD flights than flying them at the moment. However, not a surprise when you are charging £250 return on both routes. Flybe may not be everyoneís favourite to return to SOU but they will sure deliver a cheaper fare and a more frequent service!
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Old 20th Jun 2022, 21:32
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Have u seen how many flights Flybe are cancelling these days too my friend 🤦‍♂️
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Old 28th Jun 2022, 21:25
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Aer Lingus Regional

With the Southampton thread not having any posts for well over a week I'm rather disappointed that know one on here has mentioned Aer Lingus Regional starting a daily service from Belfast City to Southampton on July 13 2022 🤔

​​​​​​Great news indeed and now we have nine airlines serving Southampton International Airport. It would be nice to make that ten airlines by the end of the year so come on Lufthansa and announce either Frankfurt or Munich or better still both.
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Old 28th Jun 2022, 21:27
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Starts 7 July 2022
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Old 28th Jun 2022, 21:37
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Thatís good news for Southampton but not much notice to start filling the flights

3 carriers on the Belfast route now with one carrier having an alarming cancellation rate and one carrier with eye watering prices you could fly to the US with that fare




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Old 28th Jun 2022, 21:48
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you could fly to the US with that fare
from SOU?
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Old 28th Jun 2022, 22:22
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
With the Southampton thread not having any posts for well over a week I'm rather disappointed that know one on here has mentioned Aer Lingus Regional starting a daily service from Belfast City to Southampton on July 13 2022 🤔

​​​​​​Great news indeed and now we have nine airlines serving Southampton International Airport. It would be nice to make that ten airlines by the end of the year so come on Lufthansa and announce either Frankfurt or Munich or better still both.
Finally! Strange they went with Belfast over Dublin but hopefully that will follow. Quite amazing how shocking Eastern have been. They had free reign to to make SOU their own and messed it up big time. I guess they were just looking to make a quick buck.
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