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Hard to understand.
Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.
Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.
Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?
Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.
Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?
And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.
Sometimes you need to break some eggs.
Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.
Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.
Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?
Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.
Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?
And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.
Sometimes you need to break some eggs.
Comparing the orange mob to Loganair or Emerald is pointless as many have said, two separate animals.
Easyjet are scrapping the bottom of the barrel for revenue as traditionally they have given non core UK domestics a wide berth..
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If as suggested there are further route announcements from easyjet in the next few weeks, can we expect anything additional for SOU and/or FAO & ALC adding frequency?
Last edited by SKOJB; 10th Nov 2023 at 12:39.
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Most easyJet Europe bases are at airports with restrictive operating hours. If they make bases work at these airports with time restrictions, so why not at SOU?
Below is a list of the EJU bases and shows the time that the last EJU based aircraft lands.
ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25
Below is a list of the EJU bases and shows the time that the last EJU based aircraft lands.
ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25
Hard to understand.
Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.
Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.
Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?
Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.
Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?
And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.
Sometimes you need to break some eggs.
Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.
Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.
Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?
Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.
Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?
And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.
Sometimes you need to break some eggs.
It should amaze me that the post from Severn stating cold hard facts on why the operating times at SOU are clearly not an issue at many other airports EZY operate to and yet we still have dense people labouring the point.
Also, MadB your post is one of the best posts I’ve seen on here for ages. Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill. I suppose Cadbury should stop selling their chocolate bars in Tesco as they also sell Nestle? The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing. Guess what, if EZY push LM out, then the same amount if not more people will still want to fly on those domestic routes. If EZY have full planes and still demand for more seats maybe they will do two daily? If not, then LM can pick up the slack. If EZY disappear in the future then LM can come back? There is no issue to discuss or worry about.
we had this with the runway, oh it’s never going to be built, oh it’s going to be stopped by the courts etc. it’s built and should be a time for much positivity and people are moaning that there isn’t a huge base announced on day one. We now have EZY moving in and 4 routes already announced with more likely to follow and we have people making it out to be a bad thing. Some very angry little men on this thread.
Also, what is the completely ridiculous comparison to BHX about? BHX also has Ryanair, Jet2 and Tui competing with EZY on the holiday routes. SOU does not have this level of competition. As far as domestic routes are concerned, Birmingham is a lot closer to Manchester, Newcastle and Scotland than Southampton is and has a good rail service to London. Domestic routes aren’t really as needed as they are at SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London.
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Hard to understand.
Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?
Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.
Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?
And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.
Sometimes you need to break some eggs.
Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?
Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.
Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?
And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.
Sometimes you need to break some eggs.
If those airlines cannot sustain their routes with easyJet competition, all you have done is replaced a Loganair or Emerald monopoly at Southampton with an easyJet one. In doing so, frequencies will drop - just look at the Birmingham/Scotland schedules with easyJet this winter as an example of how dire it becomes. Newcastle/Bristol is another good example. And given the typical LCC airport deals, the airport's income from landing and paxtaxes will almost certainly fall too. No-one wins there apart from easyJet who are then able to control the Southampton market to make sure it never becomes a threat to Gatwick.
I don't think this is as much a case of breaking eggs as choosing to import bird flu into a chicken farm.
Yes Southampton needs new business, but not one that cannabalizes its existing customers. Why have EZY jumped on existing routes when there are so many still left unserved? We keep getting told MAN is a gold mine - unserved and a big Easy base
RJ maintaining standards...
yet we still have dense people labouring the point.
Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill.
The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing.
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Just seen the post above. On the opening hours point, those are the last scheduled arrivals into those places. The latest actual arrivals into those airports will generally be quite a bit later - of last night's easyJet arrivals into Gatwick, most were on time but a couple scheduled for much earlier didn't get back until after midnight. You need a buffer between last scheduled and closing time for all of those issues which happen. It's just not real-world to say that because easyJet schedules into all sorts of places at 22:30 and Southampton doesn't close until 23:00 that it's a viable base. The number of occasions where you'd end up with the last flight of the night diverting away - which then screws up the entire next day's schedule as the aircraft is starting in the wrong place - would be a major headache. What happens on paper and what happens in the world of airline operations are not one and the same thing.
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Will anyone take him seriously with these rants. : I don't think so
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Welcome both to the SOU thread. How nice to find some people with common sense posting on here.
It should amaze me that the post from Severn stating cold hard facts on why the operating times at SOU are clearly not an issue at many other airports EZY operate to and yet we still have dense people labouring the point.
Also, MadB your post is one of the best posts I’ve seen on here for ages. Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill. I suppose Cadbury should stop selling their chocolate bars in Tesco as they also sell Nestle? The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing. Guess what, if EZY push LM out, then the same amount if not more people will still want to fly on those domestic routes. If EZY have full planes and still demand for more seats maybe they will do two daily? If not, then LM can pick up the slack. If EZY disappear in the future then LM can come back? There is no issue to discuss or worry about.
we had this with the runway, oh it’s never going to be built, oh it’s going to be stopped by the courts etc. it’s built and should be a time for much positivity and people are moaning that there isn’t a huge base announced on day one. We now have EZY moving in and 4 routes already announced with more likely to follow and we have people making it out to be a bad thing. Some very angry little men on this thread.
Also, what is the completely ridiculous comparison to BHX about? BHX also has Ryanair, Jet2 and Tui competing with EZY on the holiday routes. SOU does not have this level of competition. As far as domestic routes are concerned, Birmingham is a lot closer to Manchester, Newcastle and Scotland than Southampton is and has a good rail service to London. Domestic routes aren’t really as needed as they are at SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London.
It should amaze me that the post from Severn stating cold hard facts on why the operating times at SOU are clearly not an issue at many other airports EZY operate to and yet we still have dense people labouring the point.
Also, MadB your post is one of the best posts I’ve seen on here for ages. Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill. I suppose Cadbury should stop selling their chocolate bars in Tesco as they also sell Nestle? The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing. Guess what, if EZY push LM out, then the same amount if not more people will still want to fly on those domestic routes. If EZY have full planes and still demand for more seats maybe they will do two daily? If not, then LM can pick up the slack. If EZY disappear in the future then LM can come back? There is no issue to discuss or worry about.
we had this with the runway, oh it’s never going to be built, oh it’s going to be stopped by the courts etc. it’s built and should be a time for much positivity and people are moaning that there isn’t a huge base announced on day one. We now have EZY moving in and 4 routes already announced with more likely to follow and we have people making it out to be a bad thing. Some very angry little men on this thread.
Also, what is the completely ridiculous comparison to BHX about? BHX also has Ryanair, Jet2 and Tui competing with EZY on the holiday routes. SOU does not have this level of competition. As far as domestic routes are concerned, Birmingham is a lot closer to Manchester, Newcastle and Scotland than Southampton is and has a good rail service to London. Domestic routes aren’t really as needed as they are at SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London.
Seems the only Angry Little Man on this thread may be you with the above rant.
Business is business, some of us Neanderthals' do understand the concepts being discussed.
Relax, watch it all unfold as the Orange Mob obliterate regional connectivity and increase their prices when those pesky regional carriers retreat.
"SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London."
Hmm - you can get a train from SOU that goes via Reading to Birmingham and Manchester without changing - several times a day
Hmm - you can get a train from SOU that goes via Reading to Birmingham and Manchester without changing - several times a day
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New airline mentioned by Stewyb
I have only ever tried to give a little information when I have heard it. Yes I mentioned months ago that easyjet would start a summer programme in 24 (to what extent we don’t know yet) and so it’s seems to be the case. I am also aware that a new airline to the airport is due to announce soon so it is looking more positive for next year. With regards to an EZY base, it seems to have come from within the airline so who knows although it might not be as far fetched as people make out when knowing that EZY are struggling massively at LGW with over capacity and loss of slots. Instead, some could be offloaded to SOU at a relatively short distance between both airports where staffing requirements and travel costs will be less obstructive for internal workers
I am also aware that a new airline to the airport is due to announce soon so it is looking more positive for next year.
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Yes, a direct train from Southampton to Manchester without changing operates hourly from 05.15 to 20.15 daily.
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Are you OK?
Seems the only Angry Little Man on this thread may be you with the above rant.
Business is business, some of us Neanderthals' do understand the concepts being discussed.
Relax, watch it all unfold as the Orange Mob obliterate regional connectivity and increase their prices when those pesky regional carriers retreat.
Seems the only Angry Little Man on this thread may be you with the above rant.
Business is business, some of us Neanderthals' do understand the concepts being discussed.
Relax, watch it all unfold as the Orange Mob obliterate regional connectivity and increase their prices when those pesky regional carriers retreat.
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
Without bashing BOH, but with the recent announcements made by easyjet, it does make you wonder why they are introducing Lyon to Bournemouth rather than a Lyon to Southampton route 🤔
Regarding the previous post.
I personally would very much welcome a return of a Barcelona route from Southampton, and it would be excellent news if indeed Vueling were to resume flights on the route plus, of course, any additional destinations.
I remember being very excited at the time when Vueling first announced a BCN to SOU route. I flew the route on a couple of occasions, and I was very disappointed when it suddenly ceased operating.
For those of you who are unaware, Vueling announced BCN-SOU in November 2011, with flights commencing in the following year in May 2012 with an A319. The route did not last long, though, with the last flight operating in late September 2012. Vueling did not reappear, and BCN-SOU did not operate in 2013. I blamed it purely down to a lack of airline awareness and absolutely dismal advertising.
Perhaps with a BA code share, Vueling flights from SOU might be more of a success compared to when they previously operated in 2012. Vueling were not part of IAG until November 2012, a couple of months after they ceased BCN-SOU.
Regarding the previous post.
I personally would very much welcome a return of a Barcelona route from Southampton, and it would be excellent news if indeed Vueling were to resume flights on the route plus, of course, any additional destinations.
I remember being very excited at the time when Vueling first announced a BCN to SOU route. I flew the route on a couple of occasions, and I was very disappointed when it suddenly ceased operating.
For those of you who are unaware, Vueling announced BCN-SOU in November 2011, with flights commencing in the following year in May 2012 with an A319. The route did not last long, though, with the last flight operating in late September 2012. Vueling did not reappear, and BCN-SOU did not operate in 2013. I blamed it purely down to a lack of airline awareness and absolutely dismal advertising.
Perhaps with a BA code share, Vueling flights from SOU might be more of a success compared to when they previously operated in 2012. Vueling were not part of IAG until November 2012, a couple of months after they ceased BCN-SOU.
What is it about facts that antagonise you? Most people know where they stand when it comes to facts but clearly you don’t. Who cares if EZY push every single other operator out of SOU. People will still need to fly and for a fair price. If EZY get a monopoly and start charging too much people will fly from another airport. If the frequency drops and no longer suits again people will choose another option.
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
Obviously we're all aware of Volotea having previously operated from Southampton and their return would be a great addition but realistically I can't see them returning on a scheduled basis. The only way we could possibly see the return of Volotea to Southampton is if they resumed flying on behalf of TUI.
In one way or another, Wizz is retrenching from the UK regions rather than expanding. With their nearest base being at London Gatwick, the same applies to the last part of my previous paragraph.
I'm not denying that Volotea resuming scheduled flights to Southampton wouldn't be a good thing. Although there are many opportunities for Volotea to resume some of the destinations previously operated by Flybe from Southampton. Those possibilities could well include Bordeaux, Nantes, Nice, Toulouse, etc, where the airline has bases.
Easyjet, of course, is a completely different story to anything that I have noted above.
I wouldn't count on collecting your winnings just yet and btw, there were many on this thread in predicting Easyjet would "move in" to Southampton, although most of us never used that term. You should definitely not be taking credit for that. After Easyjet announced Geneva to Southampton in 2016, there was a lot of speculation on here at the time. You were definitely not alone.
So on that account, don't expect to receive too much from your winnings because it would have to be shared out amongst those who also shared the same view a "few years ago."
Also, regarding your previous "rant," You're like my water taps. They run hot and cold.
Last edited by Sotonsean; 10th Nov 2023 at 22:28.
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But ultimately, not really much they can do about it though, is there?
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers.
I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
If you want frequency, you get the ATR or equivalent and you pay the comparably higher fares commesurate with that offering to market.
If you want the cheapest deal, and that's most of us. then easyJet is your airline of choice.
What we're saying you won't have with the competition in that market, is Loganair charging higher fares on an ATR alongside easyJet chasing volume but at low frequency. What will likely happen is Loganair will lose revenue and volume to easyJet in a free market and walk away. The net result is a lower average fare on a modern jet at a reduced frequency. If that makes you happy then OK, but the only point we're making to you is that you won't have frequency or connectivity. It's gonna be one or t'other, unlikely to be both.
Sorry if that's too grown up an analysis for you, and perhaps you might stop referring to others as "mental" please, or the "dense brigade. You're just showing yourself to be an angry person who can't debate with grown ups without reverting to playground antics. Raise your game please.
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Are you intentionally misrepresenting what others say just to call them names? Loganair operate on wafer thin margins, they're hardly on Ryanair levels of money making.
If you want frequency, you get the ATR or equivalent and you pay the comparably higher fares commesurate with that offering to market.
If you want the cheapest deal, and that's most of us. then easyJet is your airline of choice.
What we're saying you won't have with the competition in that market, is Loganair charging higher fares on an ATR alongside easyJet chasing volume but at low frequency. What will likely happen is Loganair will lose revenue and volume to easyJet in a free market and walk away. The net result is a lower average fare on a modern jet at a reduced frequency. If that makes you happy then OK, but the only point we're making to you is that you won't have frequency or connectivity. It's gonna be one or t'other, unlikely to be both.
Sorry if that's too grown up an analysis for you, and perhaps you might stop referring to others as "mental" please, or the "dense brigade. You're just showing yourself to be an angry person who can't debate with grown ups without reverting to playground antics. Raise your game please.
If you want frequency, you get the ATR or equivalent and you pay the comparably higher fares commesurate with that offering to market.
If you want the cheapest deal, and that's most of us. then easyJet is your airline of choice.
What we're saying you won't have with the competition in that market, is Loganair charging higher fares on an ATR alongside easyJet chasing volume but at low frequency. What will likely happen is Loganair will lose revenue and volume to easyJet in a free market and walk away. The net result is a lower average fare on a modern jet at a reduced frequency. If that makes you happy then OK, but the only point we're making to you is that you won't have frequency or connectivity. It's gonna be one or t'other, unlikely to be both.
Sorry if that's too grown up an analysis for you, and perhaps you might stop referring to others as "mental" please, or the "dense brigade. You're just showing yourself to be an angry person who can't debate with grown ups without reverting to playground antics. Raise your game please.
I think the vast majority of people want the cheapest deal and don’t do day trips. Even the few business trips that are a day thing can be dealt with by a hotel. A premier inn is hardly expensive for a night. I have no issue with LM and hope they stick around at SOU and certainly in Scotland but I have no sympathy for them. They had a chance to make their mark and maybe become a bit more of a formidable challenger with bigger aircraft but all they have done is keep some old tiny jets that the previous owner went bankrupt using. There were plenty of q400s lying around that are fast and would have resulted in cheaper fairs but they went down the ATR route for their new fleet only to operate them on the likes of Glasgow - Isley, Isle of Man - Liverpool etc. Don’t think SOU owe them anything if that’s their priority.
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What is it about facts that antagonize you? Most people know where they stand when it comes to facts but clearly you don’t. Who cares if EZY push every single other operator out of SOU. People will still need to fly and for a fair price. If EZY get a monopoly and start charging too much people will fly from another airport. If the frequency drops and no longer suits again people will choose another option.
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.
Your reply says it all about your grasp of a sustainable business model for SOU.
Now where did I put my dunce's cap?