Luton-10
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In that case then, the Stansted group are being a bit disingenuous - I agree they shouldn't have to work so hard to get the figures but of the three 'steps', the first two are legitimate uses of the legislation, with only the third having any element of discretion - as for the differences between airports, look at the volume of arrivals after 22.00 - hardly surprising that this leads to more delays after 23.30
Given regional news, now is a cr*ppy time to launch flights to the Middle East with demand significantly lower than one might otherwise expect. Given what we know now, I very much doubt either Easyjet or Wizzair would be announcing a new route from Luton to the Pyramids. I would expect the route to be suspended soon until the local political situation stabilises. I don't believe published fares on this route allow one to draw any conclusions about the health of Wizzair compared to Easyjet.
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Stansted Airport expansion plans for bigger terminal approved https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-67279365
No need for Luton to expand then as the approval covers the extra passengers T2 would generate?
No need for Luton to expand then as the approval covers the extra passengers T2 would generate?
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Luton needs to look over its shoulder, as those with long memories will remember when Stansted did a smash and grab and took Ryanair from under Luton’s nose leaving Luton with a single Dublin route. Don’t think it couldn’t happen again. Same happened with TNT.
Last edited by LTNman; 1st Nov 2023 at 14:04.
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Ryanair are happy at Luton and always ask for more slots- or are you thinking of Wizzair? No longer slots available at STN early or late for a sizable based operation.
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Stansted 27 million passengers but permission to expand to 43m. They would have to increase slots at peak times to accommodate that level of passengers the same way as Luton is planning.
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Stansted is permitted 50 arr/dept in an hour, even with Winter shedules I count 44 tomorrow between 07:00 & 07:59 so in Summer it should be maxed out.
I'm sure pre-covid someone posted on STN thread that slots were unavailable between 06:00 and 09:00, much to Jet2's annoyance.
In a few years when Ryanair start upscaling with Max10, that is 24% increase in passengers vs 738.
Same with Jet2 738 vs 321.
What STN needs is more Long Haul to reach anything in the 40m pax range but does not have the worry of going cap in hand to increase pax limits.
I'm sure pre-covid someone posted on STN thread that slots were unavailable between 06:00 and 09:00, much to Jet2's annoyance.
In a few years when Ryanair start upscaling with Max10, that is 24% increase in passengers vs 738.
Same with Jet2 738 vs 321.
What STN needs is more Long Haul to reach anything in the 40m pax range but does not have the worry of going cap in hand to increase pax limits.
Heathrow is stuffed full of long haul and is doing its best to make life difficult for short haul flights while encouraging more long haul. Gatwick wants more long haul. So does Stansted. Luton would like some if at all possible. Birmingham and Bristol would also like long haul.
Long haul relies on there being first + business class pax who have a strong preference for Heathrow which pushes long haul airlines towards Heathrow with Gatwick as 2nd best.
Meanwhile, there is seemingly endless demand for flights out of London lasting under 5 hours, combined with the lower CASK and commercial risk for a narrow body flight versus a wide body.
Going from the UK to Dubai costs significantly more in not just money but also *time* (particularly if there are multiple time zones to be crossed) compared to visiting Dublin... especially if going for a short trip. 7+ hours in Y is tolerable but if travelling overnight, pax know that little quality sleep will take its toll. A 3 day trip to Dublin is great fun... but a 3 day trip in Y to Dubai is not. Yes, I did a out-Saturday, back Monday trip to Dubai last month with LCCs - it was a slog. People typically have limited number of days off work each year - so long weekends for short haul are where airlines and airports can persuade people to do more leisure flying. Is there really enough long haul demand for Luton and Stansted over the next 10 years to make it a significant part of their business plan ?
Long haul relies on there being first + business class pax who have a strong preference for Heathrow which pushes long haul airlines towards Heathrow with Gatwick as 2nd best.
Meanwhile, there is seemingly endless demand for flights out of London lasting under 5 hours, combined with the lower CASK and commercial risk for a narrow body flight versus a wide body.
Going from the UK to Dubai costs significantly more in not just money but also *time* (particularly if there are multiple time zones to be crossed) compared to visiting Dublin... especially if going for a short trip. 7+ hours in Y is tolerable but if travelling overnight, pax know that little quality sleep will take its toll. A 3 day trip to Dublin is great fun... but a 3 day trip in Y to Dubai is not. Yes, I did a out-Saturday, back Monday trip to Dubai last month with LCCs - it was a slog. People typically have limited number of days off work each year - so long weekends for short haul are where airlines and airports can persuade people to do more leisure flying. Is there really enough long haul demand for Luton and Stansted over the next 10 years to make it a significant part of their business plan ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 1st Nov 2023 at 20:57.
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I don't think Long Haul is in Luton's business plan, as you say this adds extra complexity catering for Business & First pax.
What it would like is a handful of 321XLRs and 787s for the leisure punter who will put up with Y class for a 7/8 hour flight if the price is right.
Many good reports about Wizzair Amman flights, Ok it is usually late but the price is a steal compared with MEA or BA. Repeat a bit further distance and it is a new market no-one else can touch. Imagine Dubai or Doha for £89!
What it would like is a handful of 321XLRs and 787s for the leisure punter who will put up with Y class for a 7/8 hour flight if the price is right.
Many good reports about Wizzair Amman flights, Ok it is usually late but the price is a steal compared with MEA or BA. Repeat a bit further distance and it is a new market no-one else can touch. Imagine Dubai or Doha for £89!
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Stansted is working towards 60 movements per hour. Not next year but in the next few years with some runway improvements and less 'northside traffic'. There are also quieter hours in the high 20s and low 30s that will be filled as well.
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Is that extra to their LGW route or finding it too tough South of the river, can't see you can book anything at LGW after November?
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I'm sure the dominant airline will welcome that or scream blue murder if they don't get a majority slice of that vs another airline.