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Old 27th Mar 2023, 14:34
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes
Thatís it, no more shuttle buses, long live the Dart. It is quite a momentous day in the airportís history and matches 1999 when Luton Airport Parkway first opened.
Indeed, they've now launched the Luton Airport Express website - this isn't an entirely new service as it's operated using East Midlands Railway's services between London St Pancras International and Luton Airport Parkway, however it provides customers with the option to book combined tickets so they can hop onto the DART system to get from/to the airport using just one ticket.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 14:56
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Not sure why they're saying on that website the journey time is as quick as 32 mins.

Their PR team needs to up their game - the train from Parkway non stop to St Pancras is considerably quicker - more like 25 mins!
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 15:14
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I think the 32 mins is the combined train (25mins) and DART (4mins) journey, with a couple of minutes allowed for the transfer at Luton Airport Parkway station.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 15:23
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There are a few anomalies. The claim is the Dart completes the journey in under four minutes but most passengers will do it in 2 minutes 38 seconds. The EMA train takes on average 22 minutes in one direction and 23 minutes in the other. Allowing 5 minutes for a transfer with a Dart immediately leaving means the journey could be completed in just under 30 minutes. In reality the transfer will take longer than 32 minutes.

There is a claim that the journey from London can be done for as little as £10 but actually it is from £7.60 with no flexibility.

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Old 27th Mar 2023, 15:23
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Ah, of course
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 18:32
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Originally Posted by LTNman
There are a few anomalies. The claim is the Dart completes the journey in under four minutes but most passengers will do it in 2 minutes 38 seconds. The EMA train takes on average 22 minutes in one direction and 23 minutes in the other. Allowing 5 minutes for a transfer with a Dart immediately leaving means the journey could be completed in just under 30 minutes. In reality the transfer will take longer than 32 minutes.

There is a claim that the journey from London can be done for as little as £10 but actually it is from £7.60 with no flexibility.
From BRTimes

LUTON AIRPORT PARKWAY is classified as a MEDIUM interchange station. Minimum Connection Time is 7 minutes.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 19:26
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Buy a ticket between St Pancras and the airport via EMR shows a 34 minute journey and not 32 minutes, which allows 8 minutes for a connection at Parkway.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 23:16
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ACL Start of Season S23 report out, nothing new than what we knew, MNG move 50% slots to daytime, El Al get more slots, nothing about EZY to BHD and could not find any summary of waiting Airlines for Slots - refused.
More 321s & 320s now so don't know how that is going to work vs S19 when it was a handful of pax below 18M.
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 11:21
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https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/...-to-next-stage
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 12:14
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DCO’s favour the applicant and are not balanced due to the tight timescales.

Anyone fancy reading 21,000 pages of submissions. Even the inspectors won’t have time to read them let alone opposition groups.
https://infrastructure.planninginspe...pcsection=docs

Last edited by LTNman; 28th Mar 2023 at 12:42.
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 22:43
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Looking at the plans associatedwith the DCO, these 5 extra stands are stated as already having permission approved.


Note Yellow Pax airbridges to South Stands and the yet to be completed new stands plus a little main terminal infill.
Also out of view of this snapshot, a new runway exit towards the end of the 25 threshold which should reduce backtrack times for those which require a full length departure.
A bit of the Long Term Car Park P5 is lost, new Car Parking P6 & P7! but another linking taxiway between Delta & Foxtrot to aid flow from / to the North stands.
'Pond' no longer used at all for airliners.
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 04:58
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I can count 10 extra stands that don’t exist today excluding the 4 under construction. Already approved actually means permitted development where the airport owner aka Luton Borough Council does what it likes without public scrutiny.

Car Parks P6 and P7 are both located on a major officially recognised large County Wildlife Site that will be destroyed. I guess no one cares here about that when their priority is to just count aircraft stands as though it was a sport.

Very interestingly, a serving barrister who was a Labour councillor has resigned the Labour whip. One of her allegations is that there was collusion between Labour councillors and portfolio holders regarding how they should vote, which is illegal, as the planning committee is meant to be independent of the council with councillors hearing the evidence and then voting based on what they heard at committee. I include part of her long letter below which demonstrates amply how corrupt the Council is when it comes to planning decisions.

(i) Due to the incompetence and failure to follow rules and procedures which I observed on the planning committee. Unfortunately, independent thought is not encouraged in the Luton Labour Group. You are encouraged to stand up for your residents’ interests only if they align with the wishes of the councillors who control the Group. However, if your residents approach you and wish you to help them with something that is contrary to certain councillors’ views it is made clear to you that this is not the way things are done within the Labour Group. Firstly, there is a “quiet word in your ear” from a portfolio holder, then from the Whip, then a formal complaint to the Whip and then a formal complaint to Standards at the Council containing allegations completely lacking in merit, with 18 other staff (officers) and councillors copied into the email.



A very cavalier attitude was displayed by certain Labour councillors to following rules and procedures on the planning committee, and I often had to remind certain fellow Labour councillors of the need to adhere to the rules. The most egregious example included a discussion in an email chain with one senior member of the planning committee discussing with a portfolio holder how he was going to vote prior to a forthcoming full council meeting. This was blatantly ignoring the requirement for the members of the planning committee to base their decision on the representations made at the meeting and to not be pre-determined. This conversation followed the portfolio holder circulating documentation which was also contrary to the rules as this should be circulated through the officers.



We have a code of conduct that we should follow as councillors and that includes acting with integrity and not turning a blind eye when rules and procedures are being flouted. As a member of the planning committee, I believed that the residents deserved a fair hearing and both applicants and objectors deserved to be treated equally. For standing up and ensuring that this was the case I was reported to our Group Whip.



The complaint about me to Standards at the Council was made after I asked for a site visit at a planning meeting and this led to some Labour colleagues on the planning committee trying to ignore protocol and precedent and moving to a vote on a planning application when I wished to have a site visit to properly understand the application. We are meant to consider and scrutinise applications and not simply waive them through or rubber stamp them. It transpired that the application contained inaccurate information which was why I was having difficulty understanding the same. When I quite properly acted on behalf of my residents within the rules life on the planning committee was made increasingly difficult.



I made a formal complaint to the Whip copying in the Leader detailing the above and numerous other concerns including being shouted at on several occasions. I also complained that in planning meetings residents were shouted at and derogatory comments were made to certain residents if they opposed the officers’ recommendations.



You can probably guess where this is going, the Leader removed me from the planning committee in April 2021. As a consequence, I resigned the Labour Whip. This is before Luton was placed in special measures and when the residents still had a vote and when I was effectively giving up all chances of being a councillor in the next council election, as Independents tend not to be elected in Luton. I felt that it was pointless to remain in the Labour Group when you could not effectively represent your residents’ views.



The Whip and the Chair contacted me and asked if I really wanted to be an Independent. I replied that I was not making up the numbers in a Labour Group when the Leader was removing someone who was calling out the way protocols and rules were flouted and when I was actually doing the job for which I was elected, in effect I was a whistleblower. I was re-instated to the planning committee, and I decided to remain in the Labour Group as I felt I would have more of a positive effect changing things from within.

Last edited by LTNman; 29th Mar 2023 at 05:28.
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 11:19
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Although I don't agree with the council acting like a Communist Committee (at least no forced housing relocation), there is a lot of new green space to enjoy will into Hertfordshire.

And if 32M gets approved

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Old 29th Mar 2023, 12:11
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It’s not new green space, as it is already green space. A farmers field in Hertfordshire that many locals will have to drive to is not a substitute for a mature public park and CWS that is actually in Luton.

We have to remember that the planning committee has been nobbled by its own council. The council wants a bigger airport but puts in a planning application first for a business park so it can approve its own application. Once that was approved they then apply for airport expansion, as the land already has planning permission when it goes to government.

Last edited by LTNman; 29th Mar 2023 at 12:25.
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 17:47
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pabely, have you a direct link to those plans you are showing as the index has been designed so the public will struggle.
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 18:37
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Just been looking through myself on the Examination Library folder on https://infrastructure.planninginspe...pcsection=docs

These plans are massive. Look at the road works, the proposed size of the terminal and the extension to DART. At today's prices is is daft to think the total cost won't give you much change from a £1 billion?





Last edited by cavokblues; 29th Mar 2023 at 18:55.
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 18:46
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Originally Posted by cavokblues
These plans are massive. Look at the road works, the proposed size of the terminal and the extension to DART. At today's prices this seems like it will easily top a £1 billion worth of investment to carry it all out.
I'm struggling to see how what is essentially public sector could possibly raise £1bn on its own without the explicit backing of HM Treasury or the Bank of England. I don't believe commercial banks or bond investors would accept the risk against the possibility of a s114 notice - the words "ultra vires" would scare many people off. Whole business securitisation of the future LTN fees is one enormous egg in a basket. Is there a plan to sell LTN long term as opposed to just temporary leases ?
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 19:03
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It's a very good question. After the DART project being delivered over budget and heavily delayed are LBC (albeit via their company) best placed to deliver this project?
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 19:15
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The cost a couple of years ago was estimated to be between 2 and 3 billion. With inflation who knows what that figure is now. One of the big issues is that much of the land needs raising by up to 18m while at the same time the former unregulated council tip that the park sits on needs digging out also to a maximum depth of 18m.

The work will be in three phases spread over 20 years. The council has the idea that a concessionaire will fund the build, pay off £550m of LRT debts and pay a dividend per passenger before handing the airport back to the Council.

I also can’t find the document that shows the airport in each phase. Anyone got the name of the document or its number and which section it is in.
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Old 29th Mar 2023, 19:23
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes
pabely, have you a direct link to those plans you are showing as the index has been designed so the public will struggle.
Yes, just used the linkLTNman supplied on Post # 2652
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