Luton-10
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India calling https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/...-india-flights can a full A330 do this nonstop off Luton's runway?
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Anything is possible. Without knowing exact routing, cabin layout and capacity, likely cargo carrying weight…
But yes an A330 can get in and out of LTN if circumstances correct.
High density widebodies have done 8-9 hr Florida ex LTN have they not?
I’m sure they’ll do their homework.
But yes an A330 can get in and out of LTN if circumstances correct.
High density widebodies have done 8-9 hr Florida ex LTN have they not?
I’m sure they’ll do their homework.
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I would think they would be compromised on freight - companies like Virgin fill the cargo hold with freight once all the bags are taken hold of (up to MTOW of course) but they may not be planning to do that. Pax and bags no problem.
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So there was a press release and TV interview that the Council was going to lend the airport another £119m plus a contingency of a further £20m but is that the true figure?
At the Audit & Governance Committee on 8th June the Council's external auditors said the Council's own estimate puts the cost of the airport rescue plan at £156M and voiced their (the auditors') concern that the total may go as high as £200m.
Total debts have been independently calculated at £639m and not the £509m claimed. So what is going on?
Also a Section 106 agreement states that the airports freehold land has an outstanding mortgage that was taken out in 2017 with NatWest and part of its leasehold land also has a NatWest mortgage on it also dated 16th August 2017. So who owns the airport, as no one has ever mentioned the airport is mortgaged?
At the Audit & Governance Committee on 8th June the Council's external auditors said the Council's own estimate puts the cost of the airport rescue plan at £156M and voiced their (the auditors') concern that the total may go as high as £200m.
Total debts have been independently calculated at £639m and not the £509m claimed. So what is going on?
Also a Section 106 agreement states that the airports freehold land has an outstanding mortgage that was taken out in 2017 with NatWest and part of its leasehold land also has a NatWest mortgage on it also dated 16th August 2017. So who owns the airport, as no one has ever mentioned the airport is mortgaged?
LTNman... have you considered having a chat with either the local press, or one of the national news media ? Perhaps time to publicise this beyond a single thread on a discussion website
Journalists are always looking for a juicy story, and probably have better capacity at digging for more info than you alone. I lived in Croydon until very recently... the likes of BBC were only too happy to splash Croydon council declaring bankruptcy on the BBC news front page
The Guardian would be only too happy to cover a story like this... !
Journalists are always looking for a juicy story, and probably have better capacity at digging for more info than you alone. I lived in Croydon until very recently... the likes of BBC were only too happy to splash Croydon council declaring bankruptcy on the BBC news front page
The Guardian would be only too happy to cover a story like this... !
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Davidjohnson6, indeed some news outlets including the BBC are aware of what is going on. It is a case of wait and see if they decide to run a story.
For many companies the greatest cost can be wage bill. LLAL has no wage bill, as officially it has no staff, only unpaid directors yet it has eye watering debts.
Also the finance portfolio holder for the Council who was also the chairman of the airport is no longer the chairman. Something fishy is going on. Was there a conflict of interest?
For many companies the greatest cost can be wage bill. LLAL has no wage bill, as officially it has no staff, only unpaid directors yet it has eye watering debts.
Also the finance portfolio holder for the Council who was also the chairman of the airport is no longer the chairman. Something fishy is going on. Was there a conflict of interest?
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LTNMAN I’m surprised you’ve not reported that Luton is one of eight councils in England to be subject of an independent assurance review as a result of needing exceptional additional government funding this year. You might get the story you’re looking for after all…
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I was contacted on Friday by a BBC Look East TV reporter regarding the financial situation at the Airport and the Council. Seems he has heard I have an opinion, seems he was right.
Last edited by LTNman; 3rd Jul 2021 at 04:58.
Paxing All Over The World
Not sure we can get into a debate as to which political flavour of Councils are mismanaged. One of the most regular headlines is news that the Tory govt have sent preferential funds to Tory areas.
Back to the airport ...
Back to the airport ...
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Luton had directors from all three parties on the board of LLAL up to maybe 2 years ago when big decisions were still being made. The 2 members of the board from the main opposition party resigned from being directors around 2 years ago, as they claimed being directors stopped them from criticising LLAL decisions. Now the directors all come from the majority party plus one other from the smallest party.
As LLAL meetings have always been held in secret with no public record of the minutes published we can only speculate who comes up with the ideas. I doubt it is any of the councillor directors who are there to rubber stamp the ideas of others.
Did he give out bad advise or was he ignored?
Roy Davis is an ex councillor for the main party. I have no idea what his talents are meant to be to qualify him as an advisor
As LLAL meetings have always been held in secret with no public record of the minutes published we can only speculate who comes up with the ideas. I doubt it is any of the councillor directors who are there to rubber stamp the ideas of others.
- Councillor Javeria Hussain (Chair)
- Councillor Amy Nicholls (Vice Chair)
- Councillor Andrew Malcolm
- Councillor Waheed Akbar
- Councillor Khtija Malik
- Councillor Tahmina Saleem
- Councillor John Young
- Dr Romano Pagliari (Advisory Member)
- Mr Roy Davis (Advisory Member)
Did he give out bad advise or was he ignored?
Roy Davis is an ex councillor for the main party. I have no idea what his talents are meant to be to qualify him as an advisor
Last edited by LTNman; 4th Jul 2021 at 07:41.
LTNman - you are raising topics for discussion that sound like they need to be clarified publicly, but in which a single ordinary individual probably cannot alone get a convincing answer. The amounts of taxpayer funds involved are worthy of public interest
By all means, ask those awkward questions and make freedom-of-information requests to see what you can find, but it's easy for a council to play smoke-and-mirrors with a private individual in a way that they can't with experienced journalists. It is perhaps time to hand over some of the publicising of these questions to a well resourced investigative news gathering organisation and see what they can uncover.
By all means, ask those awkward questions and make freedom-of-information requests to see what you can find, but it's easy for a council to play smoke-and-mirrors with a private individual in a way that they can't with experienced journalists. It is perhaps time to hand over some of the publicising of these questions to a well resourced investigative news gathering organisation and see what they can uncover.
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A group of residents has indeed been asking questions. In February 2020 under a Freedom of Information request they submitted a request to Luton Borough Council (LBC) to see the business case for the Dart (as it was being solely funded by them) and how it fitted into the H.M. Treasury Five-Case Business Model for Public Authority Funded Projects. They also asked if they could be supplied with a timeline for when the residents of Luton could see a positive financial benefit for the then £225 million investment.
In June 2020 they got the reply that the documentation included commercial information that could not be shared with the residents of Luton stating the project continued to be commercially sensitive and would not be released under Section (43) of the Freedom of Information Act.
The residents took the view that as the project was well advanced there should be no reason for further secrecy and asked the Council to reconsider, as it would now have no effect whatsoever on the commercial aspects of LLAL who were not the airport operator. One week later the request was turned down again.
They then decided to refer the request to the Information Commissioners’ Office (ICO), for clarity that the information did fall under Section (43). They made their submission in August 2020. The ICO agreed to correspond with LBC on the subject as they felt the residents had a case.
In January this year that the Council informed the ICO that they were maintaining their position on withholding the information, but would supply a redacted version of the information they requested. The document LBC provided was 70% redacted and contained no information that the Five-Case Business Model had been met.
The residents informed the ICO that this reply was not acceptable as the original request had not been answered. The ICO agreed that the information supplied did not cover the rationale/ justification in the request, and said they would write to LBC again to ask for this.
On the 30th March they received a letter from the Strategic Development Manager of LLAL. It did not contain anything significantly new. It only contained phrases that could be found in any of the over-hyped press releases that have appeared over the life of the project.
LBC’s auditors, EY, stated in their audit report in 2018, that the trail of contracts/costs for DART was a concern as it was so obscure, and it would be very difficult for anyone wishing to follow it to actually do that.
LLAL claim the Dart is has nothing to do with passenger growth but cutting road traffic yet the consultation documents for 32m show major road improvements for the A505 all the way from the A1M at Stevenage, through Hitchin culminating in 6 sets of traffic lights being installed on residential roads in the closest Ward to the proposed Terminal 2 where there are none at the moment.
While we all look forward to the Dart opening there is no justification for it or its cost. The Council knows this, which is why they won't release the Five-Case Business Model. I doubt it was ever considered so I think there isn't one, as I can't see how a cost of £2.34m per second saved could ever be justified when under their own proposals road traffic levels will still rise considerably, which is their claimed sole reason for building it.
In June 2020 they got the reply that the documentation included commercial information that could not be shared with the residents of Luton stating the project continued to be commercially sensitive and would not be released under Section (43) of the Freedom of Information Act.
The residents took the view that as the project was well advanced there should be no reason for further secrecy and asked the Council to reconsider, as it would now have no effect whatsoever on the commercial aspects of LLAL who were not the airport operator. One week later the request was turned down again.
They then decided to refer the request to the Information Commissioners’ Office (ICO), for clarity that the information did fall under Section (43). They made their submission in August 2020. The ICO agreed to correspond with LBC on the subject as they felt the residents had a case.
In January this year that the Council informed the ICO that they were maintaining their position on withholding the information, but would supply a redacted version of the information they requested. The document LBC provided was 70% redacted and contained no information that the Five-Case Business Model had been met.
The residents informed the ICO that this reply was not acceptable as the original request had not been answered. The ICO agreed that the information supplied did not cover the rationale/ justification in the request, and said they would write to LBC again to ask for this.
On the 30th March they received a letter from the Strategic Development Manager of LLAL. It did not contain anything significantly new. It only contained phrases that could be found in any of the over-hyped press releases that have appeared over the life of the project.
LBC’s auditors, EY, stated in their audit report in 2018, that the trail of contracts/costs for DART was a concern as it was so obscure, and it would be very difficult for anyone wishing to follow it to actually do that.
LLAL claim the Dart is has nothing to do with passenger growth but cutting road traffic yet the consultation documents for 32m show major road improvements for the A505 all the way from the A1M at Stevenage, through Hitchin culminating in 6 sets of traffic lights being installed on residential roads in the closest Ward to the proposed Terminal 2 where there are none at the moment.
While we all look forward to the Dart opening there is no justification for it or its cost. The Council knows this, which is why they won't release the Five-Case Business Model. I doubt it was ever considered so I think there isn't one, as I can't see how a cost of £2.34m per second saved could ever be justified when under their own proposals road traffic levels will still rise considerably, which is their claimed sole reason for building it.
Last edited by LTNman; 4th Jul 2021 at 08:26.
Keep up the good work LTNman and don't let the naysayers get you down.....As a long-tem local resident and having worked at the airport for 35 years, your work in highlighting and exposing the going's on at LBC is appreciated and of much interest.
However, as others have already mentioned its time to also take this to a much wider audience (as its clear LBC think they can effectively ignore the local residents who raise justifiable concerns!)
However, as others have already mentioned its time to also take this to a much wider audience (as its clear LBC think they can effectively ignore the local residents who raise justifiable concerns!)
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What an unbelievable mess Luton Borough Council have created for themselves. Never mind, they have DART. No white elephants at Whipsnade, only in Luton!
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No blue lighting either, as the lighting that is attached to the underside of the ski slope on the Dart bridge has been unlit now for a number of weeks.
Money saving exercise, broken or now switched off until the Dart opens next year?
Money saving exercise, broken or now switched off until the Dart opens next year?