Manchester-3
I'll say this again because the message is not getting through. It is not just security. All departments, operators, handling agents etc are understaffed at the moment.
Even if you could fill all the vacant security posts (you won't because the t&cs are cr@p) there would still be huge delays.
Even if you could fill all the vacant security posts (you won't because the t&cs are cr@p) there would still be huge delays.
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Traveled through Manchester last week arrive at security queue at 0445hrs for a 0620 departure took 45 minutes to get just through security joined queue just inside boarding card area, noticed a guy a few places in front of me in the fast track queue and just out of curiosity wondered who would be first through security answer the normal non paying queue, fast track was actually slower and if I had paid for this service I would have been very unhappy, problem is that fast track goes through just one security and as a result is a lot slower, did witness staff going along the line calling out for passengers on the first flights by the boarding time
Returned home on 6/4 Ryanair ex Palma , flight was delayed into Palma by over 3 hrs, upon departure the captain apologised for the delay and then gave the reasons the original aircraft had a fault with the refueling valve so a replacement aircraft was needed no spare Ryanair UK aircraft at Manchester so one was positioned up from Stansted the flight was due to dep Man at 1035hrs however replacement aircraft didn't arrive until 1224hrs, this flight was empty and should have had a quick load time to depart but didn't until 1418hrs almost 2 hours later reason you could not have made it up, Swissport had loaded 180 bags onto the flight but none of these bags were going to Palma so all bags had to be off loaded and correct luggage loaded onto flight.
Upon arrival at Manchester landed at 1937hrs some 3hrs 15 minutes late, we was held on the tarmac as there was no one to bring us onto stand, even though pilot had requested and been told we was priority, 10 minutes later we went onto stand, then we was not allowed to deplane as there was no dispatcher again from swissport to open the doors so we could get into airport, after around 20 minutes and repeated apology from Ryanair blaming swissport and saying Manchester airport is embarrassing a member of cabin crew did the dispatchers job and opened the doors so we could get off and enter the airport,
As we were T3 and nothing else had arrived in ;last 30 minutes we were straight through passport control, we had hand luggage only so was straight out would not guess how long wait would have been for hold luggage
Returned home on 6/4 Ryanair ex Palma , flight was delayed into Palma by over 3 hrs, upon departure the captain apologised for the delay and then gave the reasons the original aircraft had a fault with the refueling valve so a replacement aircraft was needed no spare Ryanair UK aircraft at Manchester so one was positioned up from Stansted the flight was due to dep Man at 1035hrs however replacement aircraft didn't arrive until 1224hrs, this flight was empty and should have had a quick load time to depart but didn't until 1418hrs almost 2 hours later reason you could not have made it up, Swissport had loaded 180 bags onto the flight but none of these bags were going to Palma so all bags had to be off loaded and correct luggage loaded onto flight.
Upon arrival at Manchester landed at 1937hrs some 3hrs 15 minutes late, we was held on the tarmac as there was no one to bring us onto stand, even though pilot had requested and been told we was priority, 10 minutes later we went onto stand, then we was not allowed to deplane as there was no dispatcher again from swissport to open the doors so we could get into airport, after around 20 minutes and repeated apology from Ryanair blaming swissport and saying Manchester airport is embarrassing a member of cabin crew did the dispatchers job and opened the doors so we could get off and enter the airport,
As we were T3 and nothing else had arrived in ;last 30 minutes we were straight through passport control, we had hand luggage only so was straight out would not guess how long wait would have been for hold luggage
Join Date: Apr 2016
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I wonder how long it will be before Swissport (or Pissport as they are known in the industry) survive for?
I get what has happened in the industry over the last 2 years and do not blame them for the staff shortages (that lands firmly at the governments door) however there knee jerk reaction to what has happened clearly is not doing them any favours (redundancies etc) when they had furlough to take full advantage of (only thing I'll congratulate the government on). This has left them severely exposed for the recovery which has clearly slapped not only Pissport/Manchester around the face but also the whole industry. Unlike Jet2 which fully self handle at most bases in the UK and took full advantage of furlough but also ensures there was no knee jerk reactions initially. How are easyJet fairing if you remove the security issues with DHL? DNATA etc.
That sort of service cannot continue and I fully expect that there will be money back/no payment for piss poor service with the likes of Ryanair/TUI etc. Eventually they will not be profitable and bleeding money. Only so long that can last.
Personally I'm surprised TUI have allowed the relationship which clearly is now tarnishing their reputation with customers to continue. Why they are not looking at following Jet2 footsteps and self handle at their big bases. This is not a dig at Swissport, in fact I have up most respect for the shop floor staff as it's their management who have shafted the company in the UK. Swissport in smaller bases seems to be fairing off better then in the bigger I've also noted. But to be expected.
I get what has happened in the industry over the last 2 years and do not blame them for the staff shortages (that lands firmly at the governments door) however there knee jerk reaction to what has happened clearly is not doing them any favours (redundancies etc) when they had furlough to take full advantage of (only thing I'll congratulate the government on). This has left them severely exposed for the recovery which has clearly slapped not only Pissport/Manchester around the face but also the whole industry. Unlike Jet2 which fully self handle at most bases in the UK and took full advantage of furlough but also ensures there was no knee jerk reactions initially. How are easyJet fairing if you remove the security issues with DHL? DNATA etc.
That sort of service cannot continue and I fully expect that there will be money back/no payment for piss poor service with the likes of Ryanair/TUI etc. Eventually they will not be profitable and bleeding money. Only so long that can last.
Personally I'm surprised TUI have allowed the relationship which clearly is now tarnishing their reputation with customers to continue. Why they are not looking at following Jet2 footsteps and self handle at their big bases. This is not a dig at Swissport, in fact I have up most respect for the shop floor staff as it's their management who have shafted the company in the UK. Swissport in smaller bases seems to be fairing off better then in the bigger I've also noted. But to be expected.
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Swissport at not the only one struggling. Menzies are now (temporarily) offering double pay overtime. Swissport have been offering triple pay overtime for some time now and added to the enivitable penalty clauses, it makes you wonder what their cash flow situation is like. Not too healthy I'm guessing.
Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.
Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Swissport at not the only one struggling. Menzies are now (temporarily) offering double pay overtime. Swissport have been offering triple pay overtime for some time now and added to the enivitable penalty clauses, it makes you wonder what their cash flow situation is like. Not too healthy I'm guessing.
Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.
Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.
That's even worse then what I was portraying - triple time. Only so much cash in the bank before it goes belly up. Oh dear oh dear.
Didn't Swissport at Heathrow actually close one day without notice? I seem to remember utter carnage being unleashed with long haul arrivals landing with no one to turn them? About 2004-ish?
To me it's like parking an aircraft at Victorville for 2 years, it might return to service but it'll be forever a Hangar Queen as they're never quite the same again after extended idleness. The whole industry is like that now, it will take a long time to stagger back onto it's feet IMHO and hopefully the days of treating handlers and security staff like disposable baristas so we can all save a fiver on that holiday are forever gone.
To me it's like parking an aircraft at Victorville for 2 years, it might return to service but it'll be forever a Hangar Queen as they're never quite the same again after extended idleness. The whole industry is like that now, it will take a long time to stagger back onto it's feet IMHO and hopefully the days of treating handlers and security staff like disposable baristas so we can all save a fiver on that holiday are forever gone.
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To me it's like parking an aircraft at Victorville for 2 years, it might return to service but it'll be forever a Hangar Queen as they're never quite the same again after extended idleness. The whole industry is like that now, it will take a long time to stagger back onto it's feet IMHO and hopefully the days of treating handlers and security staff like disposable baristas so we can all save a fiver on that holiday are forever gone.
When you let it spiral down to a certain level, it's incredibly difficult to recover from and results in further reductions in alreadly low staff moral and I would garner a guess that the cost is greater in the long run. I'm sure the accountents would disagree though.
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Upon arrival at Manchester landed at 1937hrs some 3hrs 15 minutes
Join Date: Apr 2016
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The covid shut down may have exasperated things more, but some of the deep rooted issues have been there for many years. I've quoted on another thread that recruitment for the summer schedule needs to start no later than Christmas time to allow for Pass approval and sufficiant training to take place during the relativly quieter winter period. Ground handling companies will not do this due to the unwillingness to carry the staff on their books. Most recruitment begins in March which is way too late and is how we now find ourselves in the situation we have now. This is repeated year after year even pre-Covid.
When you let it spiral down to a certain level, it's incredibly difficult to recover from and results in further reductions in alreadly low staff moral and I would garner a guess that the cost is greater in the long run. I'm sure the accountents would disagree though.
When you let it spiral down to a certain level, it's incredibly difficult to recover from and results in further reductions in alreadly low staff moral and I would garner a guess that the cost is greater in the long run. I'm sure the accountents would disagree though.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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I'll say this again because the message is not getting through. It is not just security. All departments, operators, handling agents etc are understaffed at the moment.
Even if you could fill all the vacant security posts (you won't because the t&cs are cr@p) there would still be huge delays.
Even if you could fill all the vacant security posts (you won't because the t&cs are cr@p) there would still be huge delays.
This doesn't excuse the MAG-specific problems, but it does demonstrate that there is a much wider issue at play here.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I went through this morning for 6.55 LH to Munich with no issues,though I hate having to get up halfway through the night to catch this flight as I feel half asleep by mid afternoon here - must be an age thing. Back to UK Thursday which may potentially be fun.
Cheers
Mr Mac
Cheers
Mr Mac
One wonders how the holiday flight operators are handling this, the TUI/Jet2 etc people. Clients stuck in the security queue - do you go and leave them behind, where you maybe only serve the destination once a week ?
And for the Ryanair/Easyjet/mainstream scheduled people, where does responsibility start. If you have presented at the check-in when still open for your flight, put your bags in, but then are hours in the security queue, can the carrier just go, as you have been accepted ? You have paid all your money to the airline, it is their responsibility to manage their elements; their fuel supplier, their staff, and their airport provider.
And for the Ryanair/Easyjet/mainstream scheduled people, where does responsibility start. If you have presented at the check-in when still open for your flight, put your bags in, but then are hours in the security queue, can the carrier just go, as you have been accepted ? You have paid all your money to the airline, it is their responsibility to manage their elements; their fuel supplier, their staff, and their airport provider.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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If you can prove you presented yourself to check-in with good time it becomes IDB, obviously accepting checked bags implies the passenger arrived with time to spare. I don’t believe the current scenario of excessive security queues (the scenario where security queue are longer than minimum check-in) has been tested under EU/UK261 - happy to be corrected though. I’m sure it will be, at some point.
Well I know that google is usually my friend, but we're just acquaintances today. For GDPR I got General Data Protection Regulation. IDB is proving more elusive. Islamic Development Bank? Internal Drainage Boards?
Nope. Brian's advanced Jargonese has got the better of me this time!
Nope. Brian's advanced Jargonese has got the better of me this time!
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Close - its Involuntary Denied Boarding. i.e. the airline prevented the customer from boarding despite the passenger holding a confirmed reservation and presenting themselves in good time. As opposed to a 'no-show' where the passenger didn't show up, or Voluntary Denied Boarding (VDB) where the airline and customer came to a voluntary agreement in regards to denied boarding. For the purpose of EU/UK 261 this is slightly different to cancellation, but I think the recourse available and obligations on the airline are largely the same.
My point was that the onus is on passengers to prove we have presented ourselves in good time to board the aircraft either at the check-in desk or at the gate. I wonder how it would be possible for someone travelling without checked-in baggage to prove they arrived in good time. How do you prove it was security queues that prevented you from getting to the gate on-time as opposed to spending too long in duty-free or falling asleep somewhere?
This will be interesting to watch - I think MAN and DUB look like the most likely candidates to be involved. Any rulings from EU261 will not apply automatically under UK261, so it will be interesting to see what happens if a judgement is sought by someone who misses their flight due to length security queues. Are airlines/agents at MAN rebooking people in these scenarios?
My point was that the onus is on passengers to prove we have presented ourselves in good time to board the aircraft either at the check-in desk or at the gate. I wonder how it would be possible for someone travelling without checked-in baggage to prove they arrived in good time. How do you prove it was security queues that prevented you from getting to the gate on-time as opposed to spending too long in duty-free or falling asleep somewhere?
This will be interesting to watch - I think MAN and DUB look like the most likely candidates to be involved. Any rulings from EU261 will not apply automatically under UK261, so it will be interesting to see what happens if a judgement is sought by someone who misses their flight due to length security queues. Are airlines/agents at MAN rebooking people in these scenarios?