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Iberia Express will increase from 2 to 4 weekly this winter.
Flights will be on Tue/Thu/Sat/Sun, with evening arrivals on Tue/Thu/Sat and a morning flight on Sunday's.
Great news!
Flights will be on Tue/Thu/Sat/Sun, with evening arrivals on Tue/Thu/Sat and a morning flight on Sunday's.
Great news!
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Were they definatly via MAN on 6th, there has never been a flight bookable for 6th December, it was originally supposed to be Tue/Sat only?
The Wed flight was summer only until end of October.
The Wed flight was summer only until end of October.
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Quite a long haul network Norwegian and Gatwick are building down there. Obs more of an issue for BA/LHR but have MAN missed a trick by not getting a Norwegian agreement nailed down.
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It all depends at the moment.
Yes, the allure of a large long haul network is enticing, however, there are a few caveats:
-is this expansion sustainable. I'm not calling into question if they are profitable or not, but, their expansion has been very rapid, and history tells us, this level of expansion doesn't normally end well. They have done well to get where they are, but, I do question some of their destinations.
Austin for example, BA does well due to connections. Norwegian doesn't really have that, so, can the route survive on O&D?
The other issue is that just because Gatwick has gained the routes from Norwegian it has, doesn't mean Manchester would have got them too. The standard 'Norwegian start up package' seems to be New York, Fort Lauderdale, Oakland and Los Angeles. In essence, there isn't anything there that TCX doesn't offer. TCX offer JFK/LAX, and insert MIA for FLL and SFO for OAK. The other thing to consider was that MAN was slated to get the EDI narrow body treatment. MAN has something better than that, as TCX offer cargo and widebody experiences too.
-Thomas Cook.
We have our own success story at Manchester in these guys. They have built up a sustainable long haul programme, with a great reputation and similar style on board product to Norwegian. Yes, there have been a few issues, like tech aircraft, but, when you operate an older fleet, that's bound to happen.
TCX are going to introduce wifi, have numerous connection oppertunities and will soon introduce a business class cabin, something Norwegian doesn't have which could help boost yield on our flights.
TCX doesn't seem to have had the toxicity that Norwegian has had either. Form labour issues, to rights blocking and also airline enemies, TCX have just been allowed to get on with it.
There's no point hankering on 'what we could have had', when we already have it with Thomas Cook, and I believe we are just at the start.
I don't believe that Norwegian would have started MAN-DEN/SEA/AUS etc, or even Asian flights, but I believe TCX can, and will serve those sorts of routes in time. It will probably take longer than Norwegian have done at Gatters, but, that's not nessisarily a bad thing.
Yes, the allure of a large long haul network is enticing, however, there are a few caveats:
-is this expansion sustainable. I'm not calling into question if they are profitable or not, but, their expansion has been very rapid, and history tells us, this level of expansion doesn't normally end well. They have done well to get where they are, but, I do question some of their destinations.
Austin for example, BA does well due to connections. Norwegian doesn't really have that, so, can the route survive on O&D?
The other issue is that just because Gatwick has gained the routes from Norwegian it has, doesn't mean Manchester would have got them too. The standard 'Norwegian start up package' seems to be New York, Fort Lauderdale, Oakland and Los Angeles. In essence, there isn't anything there that TCX doesn't offer. TCX offer JFK/LAX, and insert MIA for FLL and SFO for OAK. The other thing to consider was that MAN was slated to get the EDI narrow body treatment. MAN has something better than that, as TCX offer cargo and widebody experiences too.
-Thomas Cook.
We have our own success story at Manchester in these guys. They have built up a sustainable long haul programme, with a great reputation and similar style on board product to Norwegian. Yes, there have been a few issues, like tech aircraft, but, when you operate an older fleet, that's bound to happen.
TCX are going to introduce wifi, have numerous connection oppertunities and will soon introduce a business class cabin, something Norwegian doesn't have which could help boost yield on our flights.
TCX doesn't seem to have had the toxicity that Norwegian has had either. Form labour issues, to rights blocking and also airline enemies, TCX have just been allowed to get on with it.
There's no point hankering on 'what we could have had', when we already have it with Thomas Cook, and I believe we are just at the start.
I don't believe that Norwegian would have started MAN-DEN/SEA/AUS etc, or even Asian flights, but I believe TCX can, and will serve those sorts of routes in time. It will probably take longer than Norwegian have done at Gatters, but, that's not nessisarily a bad thing.
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Quote - TCX to introduce WiFI and a business class cabin soon
WiFi I can believe but business class is years away if at all. They have only just re-fitted the A330 so they are unlikely to want to gut the aircraft again and go 3 class. Unless of course they are getting some more 2nd hand A330s with business already fitted.
WiFi I can believe but business class is years away if at all. They have only just re-fitted the A330 so they are unlikely to want to gut the aircraft again and go 3 class. Unless of course they are getting some more 2nd hand A330s with business already fitted.
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Playamar,
The info came from someone within Thomas Cook, saying he could see it within the next 2 years on routes like New York.
The info came from someone within Thomas Cook, saying he could see it within the next 2 years on routes like New York.
Faltinek also will look at the appetite for corporate business on Thomas Cook Airlines, which connects several U.S. cities to Manchester, England. Thomas Cook Airlines might add business class in the next two years if it senses sufficient demand, Boyd said. It is eyeing corporate business on its route from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, which it will convert to year-round in December
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Thanks LAX-LHR. You've obviously been mulling upon this to.
Totally agree and already said that TCX have a massive opportunity before them that dare not be blown away with repeat tech issues.
WiFi. Great, but it's a luxury rather than a deciding factor who to travel with.
Totally agree and already said that TCX have a massive opportunity before them that dare not be blown away with repeat tech issues.
WiFi. Great, but it's a luxury rather than a deciding factor who to travel with.
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I have been mulling the pros and cons of Norwegian at MAN, and obviously, if they decide to serve Manchester long haul, they would be welcomed, but, I don't feel MAN is specifically loosing out by not having them.
I know wifi is a luxury but it is becoming more prevelent in choice of airline and means TCX will be well on par with the Norwegian offer, even better with free meals, luggage etc.
I think the scope for TCX is immense.
In time, we could see routes like Tampa, San Diego, New Orleans, Denver (particularly winter) and even the likes of Bangkok should they look east.
One to watch out for is China.
TCX have made a deal with FOSUN, and one interesting comment from Christoph Debus of TCX was that 'they had the relevant licences to transport passengers both inbound and outbound to China'. I doubt you would seek route licences if you had no intention to use them).
He then emphasised that TCX could bring passengers from China to 'watch premier league matches before heading on a tour', and I have heard routes like Quingdao, Xi'an and Hangzhou are on the radar, where routes to the UK and most of Europe require a stop en route and unlikely to be served by Chinese carriers for a while. (I know Xi'an is served by Hainan to Paris, but in general, not well served to Europe.)
I know wifi is a luxury but it is becoming more prevelent in choice of airline and means TCX will be well on par with the Norwegian offer, even better with free meals, luggage etc.
I think the scope for TCX is immense.
In time, we could see routes like Tampa, San Diego, New Orleans, Denver (particularly winter) and even the likes of Bangkok should they look east.
One to watch out for is China.
TCX have made a deal with FOSUN, and one interesting comment from Christoph Debus of TCX was that 'they had the relevant licences to transport passengers both inbound and outbound to China'. I doubt you would seek route licences if you had no intention to use them).
He then emphasised that TCX could bring passengers from China to 'watch premier league matches before heading on a tour', and I have heard routes like Quingdao, Xi'an and Hangzhou are on the radar, where routes to the UK and most of Europe require a stop en route and unlikely to be served by Chinese carriers for a while. (I know Xi'an is served by Hainan to Paris, but in general, not well served to Europe.)
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Not sure why TCX should be seen as synonymous with tech issues? OMYT had an incident on the ground and VKF was a faulty indicator that resulted in a turnaround mid flight. Not aware of anything else? They are very quick to charter in aircraft and the scheduled routes were protected at the expense of Orlando and Caribbean type flights. They gave a hangar and maintenance facility at MAN plus some slack in the system that sees A330s operating short haul.
Last edited by Turtle controller; 7th Jul 2017 at 14:35. Reason: Spelling
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It's not that TCX is synonymous with delays, it more that because MAN is such a 'spotter friendly airport', issues can be highlighted more.
For example, when OMYT blew a compressor a few years ago, it was caught by about 3 different video cameras, and who VKF returned a few weeks ago, it was flight tracked by a fair few people when, if this was another airport, may not have been so 'high profile' as MAN.
This means more publicity and unfortunately that means more people know about delays/diverts etc. Like I say, it's not that TCX has an issue, but wrongful headlines like 'part of wing falls off in flight' will not help them.
For example, when OMYT blew a compressor a few years ago, it was caught by about 3 different video cameras, and who VKF returned a few weeks ago, it was flight tracked by a fair few people when, if this was another airport, may not have been so 'high profile' as MAN.
This means more publicity and unfortunately that means more people know about delays/diverts etc. Like I say, it's not that TCX has an issue, but wrongful headlines like 'part of wing falls off in flight' will not help them.
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Norwegian had plenty bother with delays on their 787 fleet, both late deliveries from Boeing and technical. Their MAX-8s have yet to enter service, so there are a few splash and dash stops on the EDI and ORK routes so far.
TCX are a good operation - maybe not as media savvy as Norwegian, but a solid airline quietly going about their business. I hear good things about them from friends who have tried the service. Only downside are the rather cheap and poorly tailored crew uniforms. I don't understand why they're black either - doesn't seem to fit with the yellow and grey branding.
TCX are a good operation - maybe not as media savvy as Norwegian, but a solid airline quietly going about their business. I hear good things about them from friends who have tried the service. Only downside are the rather cheap and poorly tailored crew uniforms. I don't understand why they're black either - doesn't seem to fit with the yellow and grey branding.
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Lax makes a very good point re Enthusiasm !
From afar Manchester seems to have a fan base akin with United. Heathrow is more an airport you visit and leave..... if you can.
This week Paddington Station was actually shut for hours on end , 2 days together. Got zero publicity but gridlocked 000s of passengers.
Amazed the Evening Standard didn't highlight lack of investment in the SE.
From afar Manchester seems to have a fan base akin with United. Heathrow is more an airport you visit and leave..... if you can.
This week Paddington Station was actually shut for hours on end , 2 days together. Got zero publicity but gridlocked 000s of passengers.
Amazed the Evening Standard didn't highlight lack of investment in the SE.
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Lax makes a very good point re Enthusiasm !
From afar Manchester seems to have a fan base akin with United. Heathrow is more an airport you visit and leave..... if you can.
This week Paddington Station was actually shut for hours on end , 2 days together. Got zero publicity but gridlocked 000s of passengers.
Amazed the Evening Standard didn't highlight lack of investment in the SE.
From afar Manchester seems to have a fan base akin with United. Heathrow is more an airport you visit and leave..... if you can.
This week Paddington Station was actually shut for hours on end , 2 days together. Got zero publicity but gridlocked 000s of passengers.
Amazed the Evening Standard didn't highlight lack of investment in the SE.
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Quote - TCX to introduce WiFI and a business class cabin soon
WiFi I can believe but business class is years away if at all. They have only just re-fitted the A330 so they are unlikely to want to gut the aircraft again and go 3 class. Unless of course they are getting some more 2nd hand A330s with business already fitted.
WiFi I can believe but business class is years away if at all. They have only just re-fitted the A330 so they are unlikely to want to gut the aircraft again and go 3 class. Unless of course they are getting some more 2nd hand A330s with business already fitted.
When you buy global capacity in $5-$10 million clips, a really small network from a regional airport in England just isn't that interesting.
Even if they get a seat at the table they won't be exclusive and connectivity, frequency, hard product, lounge access and loyalty schemes all become really important.
Will they put me in a lounge for my connection from Oakland? Will they cross deck me onto a partner if they go tech? Can I upgrade reasonably often for free? I'm buying J do they have F? Do they offer all aisle seating? Do they issue a currency that gives me free flights on a large network?
Maybe there is a niche for regional SME customers.
Expect they can succeed but slowly slowly surely wins the race.
Last edited by pilot9249; 8th Jul 2017 at 01:22.
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So, you start your post by saying they will struggle, but end that post by saying they will succeed?
Business class works well for Condor, which is what this will try and emulate, and, they are going after small-medium business travel with the need for international connections. The North West area is a hive of those types of business, and, over time, if the TCX network can grow to facilitate the business community, there is no reason why it can't succeed.
TCX are not aiming for a lavish 'Q suite' like Qatar, but more a simple product for those that want the space and upgraded meals etc at a slightly higher price. There is no reason to see why that couldn't work, even if the business community takes a while to get on board with that, plenty of leisure that doesn't mind paying for the upgrades, even those going to the house of the mouse like to splash out on Virgins 'upper class'. Little old Manchester isn't as lowly as some think.
Business class works well for Condor, which is what this will try and emulate, and, they are going after small-medium business travel with the need for international connections. The North West area is a hive of those types of business, and, over time, if the TCX network can grow to facilitate the business community, there is no reason why it can't succeed.
TCX are not aiming for a lavish 'Q suite' like Qatar, but more a simple product for those that want the space and upgraded meals etc at a slightly higher price. There is no reason to see why that couldn't work, even if the business community takes a while to get on board with that, plenty of leisure that doesn't mind paying for the upgrades, even those going to the house of the mouse like to splash out on Virgins 'upper class'. Little old Manchester isn't as lowly as some think.
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So, you start your post by saying they will struggle, but end that post by saying they will succeed?
Business class works well for Condor, which is what this will try and emulate, and, they are going after small-medium business travel with the need for international connections. The North West area is a hive of those types of business, and, over time, if the TCX network can grow to facilitate the business community, there is no reason why it can't succeed.
TCX are not aiming for a lavish 'Q suite' like Qatar, but more a simple product for those that want the space and upgraded meals etc at a slightly higher price. There is no reason to see why that couldn't work, even if the business community takes a while to get on board with that, plenty of leisure that doesn't mind paying for the upgrades, even those going to the house of the mouse like to splash out on Virgins 'upper class'. Little old Manchester isn't as lowly as some think.
Business class works well for Condor, which is what this will try and emulate, and, they are going after small-medium business travel with the need for international connections. The North West area is a hive of those types of business, and, over time, if the TCX network can grow to facilitate the business community, there is no reason why it can't succeed.
TCX are not aiming for a lavish 'Q suite' like Qatar, but more a simple product for those that want the space and upgraded meals etc at a slightly higher price. There is no reason to see why that couldn't work, even if the business community takes a while to get on board with that, plenty of leisure that doesn't mind paying for the upgrades, even those going to the house of the mouse like to splash out on Virgins 'upper class'. Little old Manchester isn't as lowly as some think.
Other than the great lounge at LHR, Virgin Upper is really quite weak. Their network is too small. Their seats are called flying coffins for a reason. Try Flyertalk. They sold out to Delta because they couldn't go it alone.
We see Condor abandoning long-haul from MUC because secondary carriers offering poor product, poor network and limited frequency from secondary airports just doesn't work for business.
I maintain that most of the market for J product is inacessible to TCX, and if they succeed it will be through finding niches which is possible for sure, but by no means guaranteed.
I'm sorry that you find a balanced post so confusing, but make no apology for failing to offer the unmitigated one-sided cheerleading you seem to prefer.
Last edited by pilot9249; 8th Jul 2017 at 04:10.