MANCHESTER 1
Join Date: Jul 2004
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TP progress - Stands 213 and 214 reopened today, minus air-bridges for walk-in walk-out use. Stands 215 and 216 now closed for three weeks for similar treatment. Stand 216 was a remote but will become a walk-out. Meanwhile the new gate lounge steelwork is going up at Stand 212. All this is temporary but longer-term i.e. until terminal extension completed in 2020. The Pier 1 construction site now fully closed off as a landside area alongside what remains of Staff West, steelwork to start going up in next few weeks. By the end of the year the skyline around T2 will be a forest of cranes.
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Roverman
Many thanks for your authorative information in respect of this work. Clearly you are a man in the know.
If the capacity rises to 55m will there not have to be an incremental rise in stands to accompany that terminal capacity?
It's great to see any UK airport expand especially as Heathrow runway 3 appears doomed thanks to our dithering politicians.
Looking at the Manchester Airport footprint it would appear the TP will at best retain the same number of stands and possibly even reduce them?
In essence to get to 55m you either
A) increase the size of aircraft across the board.
B) fill up the gaps in terms of movements.
C) Push Winter capacity to reflect that of summer.
I am told but cannot qualify that there is evidence to suggest RYR have increased eg Liverpool and Leeds as they are unable to get slots at Manchester.
Is there any creative thinking that you are in a postion to share to try and squeeze in extra stands ?
As an armchair analyst I'm struggling to see how this will work.
When i lived in the area 8 years ago there were plans to go East around T3 but a sheet of graphene a mile square would be required to shore up the apron due I believe subsidence ?
The only other available location would be West alongside that spotters viewing park but I suspect that is a money spinner the airport are possibly reluctant to lose?
Many thanks for your authorative information in respect of this work. Clearly you are a man in the know.
If the capacity rises to 55m will there not have to be an incremental rise in stands to accompany that terminal capacity?
It's great to see any UK airport expand especially as Heathrow runway 3 appears doomed thanks to our dithering politicians.
Looking at the Manchester Airport footprint it would appear the TP will at best retain the same number of stands and possibly even reduce them?
In essence to get to 55m you either
A) increase the size of aircraft across the board.
B) fill up the gaps in terms of movements.
C) Push Winter capacity to reflect that of summer.
I am told but cannot qualify that there is evidence to suggest RYR have increased eg Liverpool and Leeds as they are unable to get slots at Manchester.
Is there any creative thinking that you are in a postion to share to try and squeeze in extra stands ?
As an armchair analyst I'm struggling to see how this will work.
When i lived in the area 8 years ago there were plans to go East around T3 but a sheet of graphene a mile square would be required to shore up the apron due I believe subsidence ?
The only other available location would be West alongside that spotters viewing park but I suspect that is a money spinner the airport are possibly reluctant to lose?
Last edited by Navpi; 27th Jun 2017 at 10:15.
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am told but cannot qualify that there is evidence to suggest RYR have increased eg Liverpool and Leeds as they are unable to get slots at Manchester.
It's true T3 space is at a premium now, but Ryanair are still growing at MAN, new routes to Cologne, Seville, Frankfurt and Kiew alone this winter.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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[QUOTE=LAX_LHR;9813461
It's true T3 space is at a premium now, but Ryanair are still growing at MAN, new routes to Cologne, Seville, Frankfurt and Kiew alone this winter.[/QUOTE]
I guess the question as far as summer is concerned is: if parking at T3 and morning slots were not an issue at MAN, how many a/c would RYR choose to base at MAN, and how does that compare with what they are actually doing (is it 9 or 10 based?). Further, if there is a difference between the two, to what extent is the restriction being compensated with more flights by non-based a/c at quieter periods of the day?
Two other factors to consider perhaps:- my impression is that flybe have less based a/c than they used to, probably in part because they want early arrivals into MAN from other airports to feed their own connecting flights and also for transfer to long haul flights on airlines with which they code share.
Presumably, AA will at some stage be moving to the extended T2 (assuming their operations at MAN don't change). This could free up some space after 07.00 at T3 depending on whether some other airlines switch from T1 to T3.
The issue of long term plans for T3 is though of great interest.
It's true T3 space is at a premium now, but Ryanair are still growing at MAN, new routes to Cologne, Seville, Frankfurt and Kiew alone this winter.[/QUOTE]
I guess the question as far as summer is concerned is: if parking at T3 and morning slots were not an issue at MAN, how many a/c would RYR choose to base at MAN, and how does that compare with what they are actually doing (is it 9 or 10 based?). Further, if there is a difference between the two, to what extent is the restriction being compensated with more flights by non-based a/c at quieter periods of the day?
Two other factors to consider perhaps:- my impression is that flybe have less based a/c than they used to, probably in part because they want early arrivals into MAN from other airports to feed their own connecting flights and also for transfer to long haul flights on airlines with which they code share.
Presumably, AA will at some stage be moving to the extended T2 (assuming their operations at MAN don't change). This could free up some space after 07.00 at T3 depending on whether some other airlines switch from T1 to T3.
The issue of long term plans for T3 is though of great interest.
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Ryanair have 9 based, with I believe 10 in the summer peak.
Flybe have 8 based and as you say, use many away based flights such as Loganair.
In terms of overnight stands at T3:
Ryanair have 9/10
Flybe have 8
KLM/Air France have 2 night stoppers
BA can have up to 3 (1 A320 and 2 E190 at weekends)
There are 20 stands overnight with some Flybe being remote parked at the moment.
One would assume BA/AF/KL will move over to T2 once done so that's 3 stands freed up. T3 certainly needs more bussing hates if Ryanair were to expand based aircraft further, but of course, Ryanair do bulk out their schedules with many away based flights.
Flybe have 8 based and as you say, use many away based flights such as Loganair.
In terms of overnight stands at T3:
Ryanair have 9/10
Flybe have 8
KLM/Air France have 2 night stoppers
BA can have up to 3 (1 A320 and 2 E190 at weekends)
There are 20 stands overnight with some Flybe being remote parked at the moment.
One would assume BA/AF/KL will move over to T2 once done so that's 3 stands freed up. T3 certainly needs more bussing hates if Ryanair were to expand based aircraft further, but of course, Ryanair do bulk out their schedules with many away based flights.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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There does seem to be a lot of pressure on T3, so starting at T2 seems to be good idea in that sense.
Looking at the TP video it would seem that the plan is for one pier with airbridges perpendicular to the existing building line of T2 and a series of stands west of that which might be walk-in walk-out stands from the low pier or might be remote. The TP website says 85% of operations would be 'pier service level', so my assumption would be that these are walk-in/walk-out stands. The video doesn't show covered walkways to the stands, but I don't think that would necessarily exclude them at this stage. These stands would seem to be ideal for quick-turn operators such as FR - and others.
If FR were to move form T3, significant space would be freed up in T3 for BA and friends, flyBe and AF/KLM to remain where they are. Taking T3 back to its original mission, in many ways.
Looking at the TP video it would seem that the plan is for one pier with airbridges perpendicular to the existing building line of T2 and a series of stands west of that which might be walk-in walk-out stands from the low pier or might be remote. The TP website says 85% of operations would be 'pier service level', so my assumption would be that these are walk-in/walk-out stands. The video doesn't show covered walkways to the stands, but I don't think that would necessarily exclude them at this stage. These stands would seem to be ideal for quick-turn operators such as FR - and others.
If FR were to move form T3, significant space would be freed up in T3 for BA and friends, flyBe and AF/KLM to remain where they are. Taking T3 back to its original mission, in many ways.
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The eventual plan is to also completely re-build T3 also, plans I have seen indicate an extension of T2 further towards the runway and a new 'body' added for 'T3' or whatever the new incarnation will be called. I appriciate this isn't the best image in the world, but, it's the best I could get.
Not in this picture, but there will also be a pier heading north from the square of the new Terminal area.
Not in this picture, but there will also be a pier heading north from the square of the new Terminal area.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Would be an amazing development if all of that can be delivered. I don't think the currently approved scheme is quite so ambitious. Unfortunately T3 (and pretty much T1) are included in the TP video for the current "series of 60 improvements". An enlarged security area is mentioned for T3....we live in hope! T3 is, easily, the worst of the current terminals.
To my mind a major operator needs to move out, I think FR would be ideal. T3 just wasn't designed for 200 seat narrowbody jet operations all day.
To my mind a major operator needs to move out, I think FR would be ideal. T3 just wasn't designed for 200 seat narrowbody jet operations all day.
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Don't forget the fly through video was just aimed at the T2 development, not the rest of the airport. It did say 'T3 improvements', so maybe this is what the above plan is. In about 20-30 years time, MAN will be completely unrecognisable from the airport we see today.
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T3 certainly needs improvements today, ridding it of some of the volume and/or increasing the airside areas would help dramatically.
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Ive been having a look at the planning applications, quite a lot of T1 will almost certainly be demobilised. No applications ave been included for T3.
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T1 needs to be demolished before anything on T3 can begin, hence no applications yet.
The issue with T3 is that apart from a knock down and start again, the space it's in means they can't do a lot with it.
The issue with T3 is that apart from a knock down and start again, the space it's in means they can't do a lot with it.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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You could extend T2 right around "the corner" toward the cargo centre, plus extend T3 toward the APH. I know there are issues with utility lines, but it must be doable
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Arrived in T1 yesterday afternoon and the passport control queue was incredible! Airport staff doing their best to keep a good flow but something drastic needs to happen NOW. Extra border staff, prioritise space for passenger flow above anything and everything else. I've considered complaining to my MP rather than rant on here (no point, unless of course my MP reads this forum). What must 1st time visitors think?? Sadly, I comforted myself that there was going to be a long wait at either passport control or baggage reclaim but not both. 40 mins from gate to arrivals exit. Barcelona (44 mill pax) was excellent both ways so it can be done!
"We're sorry [but nothing's going to change until TP]" replies on their twitter feed actually got me thinking about LPL or LBA! Have a read:
https://twitter.com/manairport/with_replies
"We're sorry [but nothing's going to change until TP]" replies on their twitter feed actually got me thinking about LPL or LBA! Have a read:
https://twitter.com/manairport/with_replies
That option to extend T2 straight through T1 towards T3 was only one of six options. It was the one the airlines wanted but MAN would lose so much capability while it was being built that it was considered impossible to implement. The current option to butt T2 to 'B' pier is as ambitious as possible.
I did hear a rumour the other day however that T2 is to be completely demolished. Hard to believe.
I did hear a rumour the other day however that T2 is to be completely demolished. Hard to believe.
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They are demolishing the 'west pier' after being told it was the best option, rather than bolting the new bit onto it. Maybe Laing have now said it would be the best option for the whole structure?
As for the 'T3' plan, yes, it was one of 6 options in the first consultations, but after many, many, many meetings, feedback and other gubbins, it's apparently back on the table with some slight alterations, but can only begin after T1 is gone.
As for the 'T3' plan, yes, it was one of 6 options in the first consultations, but after many, many, many meetings, feedback and other gubbins, it's apparently back on the table with some slight alterations, but can only begin after T1 is gone.
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Long term plans after TP
The phasing must clearly be:
1 - present TP to modernise and create more capacity on T2 site.
2 - demolish T1 to create space to build new terminal behind T3.
3 - expand new T1/3 parallel to runway 1.
That would create serious terminal capacity that should be sufficient for the foreseeable future even in a constrained LHR/LGW scenario.
1 - present TP to modernise and create more capacity on T2 site.
2 - demolish T1 to create space to build new terminal behind T3.
3 - expand new T1/3 parallel to runway 1.
That would create serious terminal capacity that should be sufficient for the foreseeable future even in a constrained LHR/LGW scenario.