SOUTHEND 5
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I think the council set the operating hours for the airlines so a coach service would have made no difference as flights can't leave before 6:00 or have a planned arrival time of after midnight.
I don't post here that often nowadays because I've given up trying to work out what's going on and it's pointless just pontificating without any firm evidence to confirm apparent lack of marketing success.
BUT I must join Barling Magna in his bafflement as to why Stobart don't use their coach licence to operate LON-SEN; either permanently or at least when there is substantial disruption due to engineering works. Every weekend in February is a case in point when there are no trains from or to Liverpool Street and a Greater Anglia coach runs from Wickford to Newbury Park tube. Surely a Stobart coach from SEN direct to Stratford and Liverpool Street and return could operate regularly during those days. I was recently notified by emails from easyJet of travel problems to the airport for my booked flight so all their pax could be notified similarly regarding pick-up points at the LON end and coach departure times. There must be large numbers of travellers who are affected each weekend yet the Stobart attitude seems to be one of couldn't care less. That hardly seems a sensible stance when SEN doesn't have very good public transport connections at the best of times.
On the matter of BA Cityflyer operating sun routes from STN I'm not really surprised if SEN declined to offer them a deal due to its impact on easyJet's operation to the same destinations. It must be in their interests to ensure that the easyJet operation is as profitable as possible in the hope that will lead to additional based aircraft and destinations. As LTNman points out the scheduling that BA wanted wouldn't be available at SEN anyway.
BUT I must join Barling Magna in his bafflement as to why Stobart don't use their coach licence to operate LON-SEN; either permanently or at least when there is substantial disruption due to engineering works. Every weekend in February is a case in point when there are no trains from or to Liverpool Street and a Greater Anglia coach runs from Wickford to Newbury Park tube. Surely a Stobart coach from SEN direct to Stratford and Liverpool Street and return could operate regularly during those days. I was recently notified by emails from easyJet of travel problems to the airport for my booked flight so all their pax could be notified similarly regarding pick-up points at the LON end and coach departure times. There must be large numbers of travellers who are affected each weekend yet the Stobart attitude seems to be one of couldn't care less. That hardly seems a sensible stance when SEN doesn't have very good public transport connections at the best of times.
On the matter of BA Cityflyer operating sun routes from STN I'm not really surprised if SEN declined to offer them a deal due to its impact on easyJet's operation to the same destinations. It must be in their interests to ensure that the easyJet operation is as profitable as possible in the hope that will lead to additional based aircraft and destinations. As LTNman points out the scheduling that BA wanted wouldn't be available at SEN anyway.
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Meanwhile BA Cityflyer set up shop down the road at STN
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But as someone has pointed out these flights mainly cover when City is closed so they are just getting better use out of the aircraft that would have been parked up collecting parking fees but setting that aside this is the sort of aircraft type that would have been ideal for Southend and what a coup if it had happened for SEN
Last edited by LTNman; 9th Feb 2016 at 19:35.
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On this point EF I must disagree with you. I think Southend would have loved to have attracted BA Cityflyer and may have let a rather big opertunity slip by not baggin them! While your points regarding route replication with EZY are valid I don't think this would have been a deciding factor, after all it didn't worry them when Thomson started the weekly Palma, and in both instances load factors (of course no indication to yield ...) have remained healthy. In addition we are talking about a once weekly flight with just over 100 seats to fill, hardly a huge increase in capacity. While Southend has made many mistakes and has oh so many issues at this time, filling planes down to the med does not seem to be one of them and had they wanted to serve Southend I think there is little to no chance the airport would have declined to offer them a deal. In addition the cudos of having BA at your airport would be invaluable when raising your reputation with perspective airlines! Of course the scheduling point is vaild and the Stansted timetable as it stands would not have worked from Southend.
While coaches and trains have been talked to death I just have this point to add. I could not agree more that the late/early train situation needs sorting. However, put yourself on the stobart board for a minute, your major investment is losing money and you are trying to do all you can to balance the books. You have a limited number of flights which on many winter days don't start till later and are finished by 1800. Why on earth would you pay to introduce a coach service? Of course it would help the experience of those pax arriving late on the days there are late flights, however the reality of the situation is those pax have already booked their ticket and are using the airport, yes it may leave them extremely unhappy but this is probably not worth Stobart spending thousand of pounds on a bus service for. While there is this level of traffic and load factors remain healthy on the late arrivals I'm fairly confident any investment of that nature will not be made. What I do think is likely is that the licence was applied for to use as leverage with any potential airlines that raise this as an issue so maybe it is something we will see in the future!
While coaches and trains have been talked to death I just have this point to add. I could not agree more that the late/early train situation needs sorting. However, put yourself on the stobart board for a minute, your major investment is losing money and you are trying to do all you can to balance the books. You have a limited number of flights which on many winter days don't start till later and are finished by 1800. Why on earth would you pay to introduce a coach service? Of course it would help the experience of those pax arriving late on the days there are late flights, however the reality of the situation is those pax have already booked their ticket and are using the airport, yes it may leave them extremely unhappy but this is probably not worth Stobart spending thousand of pounds on a bus service for. While there is this level of traffic and load factors remain healthy on the late arrivals I'm fairly confident any investment of that nature will not be made. What I do think is likely is that the licence was applied for to use as leverage with any potential airlines that raise this as an issue so maybe it is something we will see in the future!
chesna152
I think you are probably correct as it has since been suggested to me by a source that SEN did indeed try hard to gain these BA flights. I also take your point about them only representing a minor dent into easyJet's market at SEN.
I think you are probably correct as it has since been suggested to me by a source that SEN did indeed try hard to gain these BA flights. I also take your point about them only representing a minor dent into easyJet's market at SEN.
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Might well have been the restricted operating hours set by the council that stopped BA Express with its 05:40 departure and 01:05 arrival. What a shame as having Southend on BA's drop down list of destinations would have been a sight to savor for all of the true Southend fans here.
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STN is surrounded by the affluent areas of essex and cambridge and has easy, quickand direct access to a chunk of wealth in the southern midlands. SEN isnt. Maybe that's the reason BA went to Stansted.
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Department for Transport statistics
Catchment area morning peak travel times 2013
Southend by car
30 minutes travel time 0.6million
60 minutes travel time 4.3 million
120 minutes travel time 19 million
Stansted by car
30 minutes travel time 0.6 million
60 minutes travel time 7.9 million
120 minutes travel time 22.7 million
Luton by car
30 minutes travel time 1 million
60 minutes travel time 6.9 million
120 minutes travel time 25.9 million
Gatwick south terminal by car
30 minutes travel time 0.6 million
60 minutes travel time 5.1 million
120 minutes travel time 20.1 million
Southend by car
30 minutes travel time 0.6million
60 minutes travel time 4.3 million
120 minutes travel time 19 million
Stansted by car
30 minutes travel time 0.6 million
60 minutes travel time 7.9 million
120 minutes travel time 22.7 million
Luton by car
30 minutes travel time 1 million
60 minutes travel time 6.9 million
120 minutes travel time 25.9 million
Gatwick south terminal by car
30 minutes travel time 0.6 million
60 minutes travel time 5.1 million
120 minutes travel time 20.1 million
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Thanks for those statistics LTNman. They show that there should be ample passenger demand for all the London airports. SEN's day will come, but the airport management needs to be smarter (or luckier, that helps too.)
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Executive Handling
SEN trying to draw up more business aviation. Good little test, the results speak for themselves.
ADS Advance - Stobart Executive Handling at Southend Airport conducts London business aviation time trial
ADS Advance - Stobart Executive Handling at Southend Airport conducts London business aviation time trial
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I had hoped that by now the latest MD who joined in September would have got something new on board after clearing out most of the previous commercial management last December, including one of my contacts, unless we now have to wait for the replacements to settle down and start marketing the airport once again. He was said to have been the MD at Luton and also Bournemouth previously and must surely have been well known with the Luton customers / potential customers.
Even with SEN operational limitations (runway), surely some of the growth we all read about in the SE must be ideal with slots available throughout its working day and the well known fast transit through the terminal. instead all we read are new services starting in Stansted and Luton mainly.
Perhaps LTNman can comment.
Even with SEN operational limitations (runway), surely some of the growth we all read about in the SE must be ideal with slots available throughout its working day and the well known fast transit through the terminal. instead all we read are new services starting in Stansted and Luton mainly.
Perhaps LTNman can comment.
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BACF
It has been suggested that BACF decided against SEN because SEN wouldn't allow them to use their own check-in staff. Surely something as trivial as that can't be the real reason!? 
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No it can't.
Surely it can't.
But...... if it's true it would be a big error of judgement. I know its only a handful of flights but SEN has no problem with filling routes to sunshine resorts so they would have succeeded. More importantly, it's British Airways for goodness sake. Having that brand at SEN, even if only for a handful of flights, would give a real boost to SEN's reputation.
But SEN's management must know that and wouldn't have allowed their company policy (if that's what it was) to be so inflexible that they let this opportunity slip through their fingers.
Surely it can't.
But...... if it's true it would be a big error of judgement. I know its only a handful of flights but SEN has no problem with filling routes to sunshine resorts so they would have succeeded. More importantly, it's British Airways for goodness sake. Having that brand at SEN, even if only for a handful of flights, would give a real boost to SEN's reputation.
But SEN's management must know that and wouldn't have allowed their company policy (if that's what it was) to be so inflexible that they let this opportunity slip through their fingers.
That was the reason originally given by someone on a Yahoo spotters' site and I assume it's now being recycled elsewhere so its veracity is by no means certain.
If it is true then it seems a remarkably stupid stance to have taken with such a high profile customer as BA.
If it is true then it seems a remarkably stupid stance to have taken with such a high profile customer as BA.