LUTON -8
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southampton
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paxing All Over The World
On the Monday the airport management, who were in a state of shock at what had happened ...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two years ago the redevelopment work was well under way. Now two years later the first contract with Whitemountain is complete including the upgrade of the road network, new dual carriageway and drop off zone. The airport might as well have saved the £14 million it cost for the contract as it has achieved absolutely nothing due to a botched drop off zone design which limits the CTA to handle as little as 8 cars a minute during peak periods as cars battle to move over from the right hand lane to enter the drop off zone. If you think this is not true just stand by the tunnel and start counting!
The screen print below was a live traffic report taken at 6am.
Reading the airport reviews on Facebook makes for a depressing read.
What is really depressing about the review above, which was written since Smithfields opened last week, is that apart from a small Starbucks all the drinking and eating areas are now open which are concentrated in the existing departure lounge. The new departure lounge extension, which is under construction, is meant to be just shops. Also as far as I can tell due to the airport maximizing all available space for retail outlets there will be no additional seating areas provided.
It is worth noting that this is the airport that is still 2.5 million passengers short from what it thinks its existing redevelopment can handle yet completed projects are leaving passengers feeling angry.
No doubt when fully finished some existing area's for concern like the queues at security will be helped by additional expansion but it is already clear this development is all about trying to increase capacity without increasing customers comfort and perceptions.
A few here should take a look at all of the reviews at https://www.facebook.com/pg/LDNLutonAirport/reviews/ and then justify more routes.
The screen print below was a live traffic report taken at 6am.
Reading the airport reviews on Facebook makes for a depressing read.
Awful airport. I'd be very interested to know what the seat/passenger ratio is. I was there on a Thursday between 4.30 & 6.30pm. Departures is the worst departure area I've ever been to. Hardly any 'airport' seating and all the eateries were packed. Barely standing room as the place is so poorly laid surely the only place in the country (world?) that has a queue for Frankie & Bennys, people would actually rather be in that dive than in the lounge.
It is worth noting that this is the airport that is still 2.5 million passengers short from what it thinks its existing redevelopment can handle yet completed projects are leaving passengers feeling angry.
No doubt when fully finished some existing area's for concern like the queues at security will be helped by additional expansion but it is already clear this development is all about trying to increase capacity without increasing customers comfort and perceptions.
A few here should take a look at all of the reviews at https://www.facebook.com/pg/LDNLutonAirport/reviews/ and then justify more routes.
What a shambles. Outbound experience was horrific-no seats and dangerous levels of overcrowding. Inbound we queued from the door to the tarmac all the way up various corridors to passport control. Over 90 minutes with no access to water or toilets as the queue was so far back. Elderly and those with small children were struggling with standing for so long. It's not even peak season yet !!! Once through passport control the toilets and terminal were filthy and strewn with litter. An absolute disgrace - Luton has always been poor in terms of cleanliness but it has gone even further down hill and I would advise people to avoid this horrific experience if they can and find alternatives - dreadful impression for people visiting the UK for the first time too
Last edited by LTNman; 24th Jul 2017 at 10:53.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: -
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Winter Growth...
Things are beginning to look a little concerning for the airport this winter, there is very little growth...
There has hardly been any new growth announced, with a few token routes operating 2-3 times a week from Ryanair and easyJet to Bydgoszcz, Sevilla and Alghero. Along with Powdair to Sion.
Thomson/TUI's winter charter programme is looking very scarce and can't really see any increased frequencies on easyJet or Wizzair's existing routes.
Last month I noticed growth was down to 6% for June, when other months like for like growth has been up 8-10%.
It looks like a number of easyJet's aircraft will either be parked up or operating fewer frequencies per day during the winter. Especially since the fleet was increased this summer at LTN and compared to last year they were operating 4x daily frequencies to CPH which never got re-instated.
There has hardly been any new growth announced, with a few token routes operating 2-3 times a week from Ryanair and easyJet to Bydgoszcz, Sevilla and Alghero. Along with Powdair to Sion.
Thomson/TUI's winter charter programme is looking very scarce and can't really see any increased frequencies on easyJet or Wizzair's existing routes.
Last month I noticed growth was down to 6% for June, when other months like for like growth has been up 8-10%.
It looks like a number of easyJet's aircraft will either be parked up or operating fewer frequencies per day during the winter. Especially since the fleet was increased this summer at LTN and compared to last year they were operating 4x daily frequencies to CPH which never got re-instated.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Things are beginning to look a little concerning for the airport this winter, there is very little growth...
The public transport system creaks and often grinds to a halt. Someone on the radio last week said it took 2 hours to get from the end of the traffic queue to the terminal after being dropped off in the mid term car park. They waited for a non existent coach after just missing one so after 40 minutes they walked. So where was the coach? Not only was it stuck in traffic getting to the terminal a new experience for this year is that it was also stuck in traffic trying to head away from the terminal.
The shuttle bus to and from the station even in the off peak times are often packed out like a London tube train in the rush hour with many passengers left at the bus stop. The lucky ones then have to endure the one mile journey from hell. Pick the wrong time to travel and it takes longer to do the one mile trip to the terminal than it did for the train journey from London.
Most of Luton's potential passengers don't live on the airports doorstep so an extra 30 minute trip to a competitor airport after a shocking experience at Luton can seem worth while and that is what many passengers are now claiming to be doing.
Maybe it is the case with easyjet that they are finding it more difficult to set a price point where they make a profit from Luton with diminished off season demand when they can more easily make a profit from an airport where there is a higher demand for travel?
The IT market from Luton has all but collapsed over the years while Gatwick still seems to have a demand. As there is no price advantage from flying from Luton passengers have said goodbye.
So what is Luton's capacity at the moment? Forget the 15.5 million it is handling now, forget the old limit of 12 million that was set by I don't know who. I would say it is more likely to be around 8 or 9 million passengers per year and even at that level some would still be sitting on the floor. At that level it would give passengers a reasonable experience. When the redevelopment is finished I would increase that total to around 12 million and not 18 million. This is based on the existing projects that have been finished that can't cope with the present passenger levels let alone 18 million passengers.
Over the next couple of years I expect to see no growth and maybe a 50% chance in a fall in numbers. The days of double digit growth are over which would be good for Luton. After that a growth rate of 2 or 3% per year is manageable but only with forward planning.
Just my personal view from someone who opens his eyes and can clearly see what is going on, on a daily basis.
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Between the check-in desks
Posts: 445
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A mere 6% annual growth rate would take Luton to 27.75 million passengers in just 10 years time. A 10% growth rate would take Luton to 40 million passengers. Seeing that there are no published plans to take Luton beyond 18 million passengers a future growth rate of 3% would give the airport 6 years to get plans published and to actually complete something before it hits capacity. That timescale makes it unlikely to happen using the present expansion as an example.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southampton
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LTNman
Your posts are so informative and well written with no bias towards LTN, you say it as it is from someone who personally acknowledges the shortfalls of the airport and can clearly see it on a daily basis.
Your posts are probably the best on this forum, also your photo updates are always welcomed.
Your posts are so informative and well written with no bias towards LTN, you say it as it is from someone who personally acknowledges the shortfalls of the airport and can clearly see it on a daily basis.
Your posts are probably the best on this forum, also your photo updates are always welcomed.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think many airport threads on PRUNE are inhabited by dreamers and fantasists. Nothing wrong in that as we can all hope for ever more passengers but the key point is that infrastructure is key. It needs to be well planned and executed in a timely manner that matches demand. This is something that Luton has lacked for a generation which hasn't been helped by the constraints of the CTA and the inability to look 20 or 30 years ahead. The latest example is not earmarking the local park, which is next to the airport, as a site for future expansion. Instead it will become a business park owned by the airport. I just can't see the logic of that decision.
Luton's capacity will always be set by its weakest link. Forget the runway, forget the stands, at the moment it is the terminal which is being worked on, parking, which is about to be reduced and the road network that spending £14 million hasn't fixed. If you can't get the passengers to the front door then there is no point in spending money on other projects beyond the roads capacity.
The council has seen the writing on the wall regarding the road situation and is pushing to get a rail link to the station started and the desire for a 4 train an hour non stop service to London. A mass increase in passengers arriving by train will relieve pressure on the road network but will then put more pressure on the terminal.
No one in authority has come up with a post 18 million terminal for Luton and has already been mentioned a 3% growth rate gives Luton 6 years to build something except Luton's terminal capacity won't really be 18 million passengers based on a good experience.
Luton's capacity will always be set by its weakest link. Forget the runway, forget the stands, at the moment it is the terminal which is being worked on, parking, which is about to be reduced and the road network that spending £14 million hasn't fixed. If you can't get the passengers to the front door then there is no point in spending money on other projects beyond the roads capacity.
The council has seen the writing on the wall regarding the road situation and is pushing to get a rail link to the station started and the desire for a 4 train an hour non stop service to London. A mass increase in passengers arriving by train will relieve pressure on the road network but will then put more pressure on the terminal.
No one in authority has come up with a post 18 million terminal for Luton and has already been mentioned a 3% growth rate gives Luton 6 years to build something except Luton's terminal capacity won't really be 18 million passengers based on a good experience.
Last edited by LTNman; 25th Jul 2017 at 07:03.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems that National Express have started a new service to Paddington taking their departures to 217 a day for all routes from the airport.
Breakdown of their main routes include:
A1 service to Victoria x 49 departures
A2 service to Paddington x 35 departures
Heathrow x 28 departures
Stansted x 18 departures
Gatwick x 11 departures.
Additionally Green Line also operates 44 departures a day to Victoria.
Breakdown of their main routes include:
A1 service to Victoria x 49 departures
A2 service to Paddington x 35 departures
Heathrow x 28 departures
Stansted x 18 departures
Gatwick x 11 departures.
Additionally Green Line also operates 44 departures a day to Victoria.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So succinctly then LTN is presently just about maxed out....whether that remains as a factor for the short/medium or long term remains to be seen but as has been highlighted the choke points will only be moved around....To get back then to the original post & the lack of much growth this winter,does it just amount to a natural plateau or are the incumbent airlines or any prospective operators viewing the congestion for their pax & ops in a more material way now?..
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who is to say what the real reasons are. I suspect most airports will see a down turn in business as people only have so much money to spend on travel and that extra weekend away will be sacrificed when belts are tightened.
Easyjet HQ can see what is happening everyday at Luton as they only have to look out of the window. The more flights they put on the harder it is for staff to get to and from work.
Wizz has got to where it is at Luton by mass uncontrolled migration to this country. That should be coming to an end but we will have to wait and see.
The airport should be looking at untapped markets if it wants a broad range of passengers including more business travellers but its economy terminal will make that somewhat hard to achieve as men in suits won't like sitting on the floor and quite like airbridges.
Easyjet HQ can see what is happening everyday at Luton as they only have to look out of the window. The more flights they put on the harder it is for staff to get to and from work.
Wizz has got to where it is at Luton by mass uncontrolled migration to this country. That should be coming to an end but we will have to wait and see.
The airport should be looking at untapped markets if it wants a broad range of passengers including more business travellers but its economy terminal will make that somewhat hard to achieve as men in suits won't like sitting on the floor and quite like airbridges.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southampton
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regards to your last comment 'men in suits won't like sitting on the floor and quite like airbridges'
The original CGI images and videos released of the redevelopment showed many men in suits with briefcases and rolling bags but in your various pictures you have posted I've not seen one man in a suit and believe me I have enlarged them to see if I can make any out but none
So obviously the man in suit who quite likes airbridges is not even seen at LTN and are using more superior airports for there travels, I don't blame them with the images that you have posted.
I had my own feeling that this whole redevelopment at LTN wouldn't achieve much and has only deteriorated the image of the airport even more so to the traveling public and media.
The original CGI images and videos released of the redevelopment showed many men in suits with briefcases and rolling bags but in your various pictures you have posted I've not seen one man in a suit and believe me I have enlarged them to see if I can make any out but none
So obviously the man in suit who quite likes airbridges is not even seen at LTN and are using more superior airports for there travels, I don't blame them with the images that you have posted.
I had my own feeling that this whole redevelopment at LTN wouldn't achieve much and has only deteriorated the image of the airport even more so to the traveling public and media.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new departure lounge will end up with 4 retail zones, Luxury, Affordable Luxury, High Street and Food and Beverage. According to the airport and I quote “this reflects the Airport’s proportion of high end leisure and business travellers; of the current passenger demographics, 79% are ABC1.”
I had to look up what an ABC1 passenger was
Well I only have to stand in the drop off zone to see that isn’t true. Either that or Eastern Europe is much richer than I thought and all the stag and hen parties passing through Luton are really City Traders.
The airport should drop the luxury retail outlets as I don't expect there will be much demand for £1200 Burberry coats and put in more food outlets and general seating as that is where the demand is.
The redevelopment will clearly increase capacity but not necessarily at the first attempt. Later on in the year and early next year Luton will start to dig up its brand new infrastructure to build its station and tunnels. Can’t help but think that the station and tunnels should have come first but that is not the Luton way.
I had to look up what an ABC1 passenger was
MARKETING in the UK, a consumer from one of the three higher social and economic groups, which consist of people who have more education and better-paid jobs than those in other groups:
The airport should drop the luxury retail outlets as I don't expect there will be much demand for £1200 Burberry coats and put in more food outlets and general seating as that is where the demand is.
The redevelopment will clearly increase capacity but not necessarily at the first attempt. Later on in the year and early next year Luton will start to dig up its brand new infrastructure to build its station and tunnels. Can’t help but think that the station and tunnels should have come first but that is not the Luton way.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I only noticed the other day that on most days there are only two flights per day to Glasgow, sure there used to be up to four a day, although Edinburgh seems to be doing OK - a sign that business routes are on the slide?
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: South Beds
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm one of the Greenline drivers and the new traffic system is a shambles. It often takes up to half an hour to leave the airport. The barrier system is laughable when the ANPR fails and then we wait to be let out. If the queue backs up to the drop off exit, all barriers are raised and no payment collected. Mini cabs and others have realised that if you tailgate closely then the barrier will not fall but stay raised and your drop off is free. Airport Way from the Vauxhall roundabout to the hotels is full of cars and cabs parked on the pavement and obstructing the road. Cars are parked long term to avoid airport charges. Local residents close to the airport are a bit hacked off when holidaymakers cars are left for a couple of weeks outside houses. More than one example of cars left being cosmetically damaged, windows smashed, wheels missing.
The airport is making a lot of money from drop offs and parking but is abrogating responsibility for the knock on effect it has on traffic flow and illegal parking around the airport. Perhaps LBC could provide a couple of wardens on a 24/7 basis to control parking around the airport with LLA picking up the tab. It would be self financing within a week.
The airport is making a lot of money from drop offs and parking but is abrogating responsibility for the knock on effect it has on traffic flow and illegal parking around the airport. Perhaps LBC could provide a couple of wardens on a 24/7 basis to control parking around the airport with LLA picking up the tab. It would be self financing within a week.